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So I took the vengeance feat after making my character using the ultimate campaign character builder, after being kidnapped by slavers as a child.

We were level 3 when the Staglord attacked Olegs, the night after he said he would attack in 3 days and did fairly well in the battle. Auchs's head was blown off second turn when our musket master crit, Devon died in one hit when I crit with my orc Skull ram crit during a rage, Akiros surrendered after disarming his opponent, and knocking out the rogue sneaking up on him because he saw the others go down.

That's when the Staglord took the field, and my character recognized him as the slaver who had taken him as a child. He was the last one standing, so we all rushed him. My barbarian hit him first, and hard, but he laughed it off.

The Party hunter and his wolfhound got to attack him but didn't do much damage, and everybody else was still moving to position.

That's when her dropped what was in his hand.

It was a glass orb with a spell that created a duel. The Hunter and his companion were pushed out, leaving just me and the Staglord, and he stepped up and crit me, taking most of my health.

The Musket Master got in range and fired, but it bounced off the spell, and the Arcanist's magic missile couldn't get through, making it clear I was totally alone.

I dropped the orc skull ram (not enough room for a reach weapon in the dueling area) and pulled out this weird magic axe Bokken had given me. I wasn't sure what it did, but previously when I hit it made the wound look rotten and maggots appeared in the wound.

I hit and rolled minimum damage and said out of character "Welp, I'm about to die. "

Then the Staglord missed.

I attacked again 20, but no confirm, then he hit me.

And rolled minimum damage, leaving me at 3 hp.

I attacked, hit him and the DM asked for a luck check, which is very rare. I rolled well, and he told me I suddenly felt like I should say "Doom".

When I did the Staglord's wounds exploded.

I passed the reflex save, but with only 3 hp still went down, my rage stopped and I dropped to -11 hp, but Staglord went negative too.

The dueling spell fell, I was healed, and got to coup De grace the man who had enslaved me.

I've never really liked story feats before, but the dm suggested it when we were making the character. Honestly, it was probably the best night of gaming I've ever had and I just had to share it.


We generally plot level (no xp, level when appropriate to the campaign)

I'm with everyone who said don't bring them in lower level, it's not punishing just them, but the party. The punishment for dying is losing the character you have invested in (both emotionally and time) so there isn't a need to punish further.


Late to the party but i feel there is a simple way that it doesn't even have to ignore any of the movement rules of a normal charge.

You are charging in a straight line directly at your opponent through the shortest distance. It's just that line is drawn through a portal (or however you want to fluff the teleport effect) and as such I believe it is completely a charge all benefits and drawbacks included.


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The Mortonator wrote:
What would be hillarious is playing a dedicated aristocrat in a game with hidden character sheets. Then, the chips are down, the heroes are out, only you are left cowering in the corner. And for the first time in the game you transform.

I'm working with my gm to do this sorta. My aristocrat will run from every fight and he will have an npc that shows up from time to time that I will secretly control(hooray texting).

I expect to be found out by the other players fairly quickly, but it should be fun.


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I can understand the ruling for the Thunder and Fang, sure. Edit: I mean by RAI. RAW you can do it separately.

But Dorn Dergar master, absolutely not. it lets you wield dorn dergars as one handed weapons. You can absolutely wield two of them then.


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thaX wrote:

See, that is the other side of the coin. It depends on what you think of the weapon, being wielded or staying the same.

This is why I brought up the smaller weapon. If it worked like that, then one could not wield the smaller Two Handed weapon Two Handed, as being able to one hand it would make that a light weapon. This is the same as wielding a larger one with two hands.

You can wield two One Handed Weapons (Or a One Handed and a Light weapon to lessen the penalties) to TWF with, or to use with your iteraves at higher level. One side of the coin is that the weapons change to One Handed, and everything goes off of that, double wielding the suckers, wielding the huge one, and unable to wield the smaller with two hands. The other is that the weapon is as it is, and wielding a second one is not possible, as a One Handed or light weapon is needed in the second hand.

Yes, this is where the issue is.

There is no issue you are making up an issue, you are making up rules to back you up that don't exist.

While I'm not weighing in on the wielding a large one debate, the simple fact is that dorn dergar master allows dual wielding, its the point of the feat. That's why two weapon fighting is a prepreq.

Please explain this to me, if you can't use anything in the second hand what is the point of the feat dorn dergar master? Please explain this feat to me, what it does and why you would use it according to your rules. Because as far as I can tell all your idea of how it works would do is intentionally make you do less damage.


It's not a flip of the coin, you're just wrong.

You can wield two one handed weapons when two weapon fighting right? You agree this is how two weapon fighting works?

Then how could wielding two weapons that you treat as one handed weapons not be possible?


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I just had the visual of going into peace talks with the leader sieging our castle, and saying we offer this gift *hand him box, he opens it, balista hits him in the face. *


Alright I see What Thax is saying clearly now, he is simply wrong.

The dorn dergar feat absolutely will let you use two dorn dergars (albeit at the higher penalty for using two one handed weapons) in two weapon fighting.


I'm confused by what the point of the feat would be by Thax's view. For both doing dergar master and thunder and fang.

Both require two weapon fighting, are you suggesting that they can't be used in conjunction?

Am I misinterpreting your statement ?


Nipin wrote:

Half-Orc with Toothy racial trait to gain bite

2 level of ranger natural weapon style to gain claws
2 levels of Barbarian to gain Gore(when raging) and Rage
1 level of Sorcerer to qualify for Dragon

...

This one reminded me of my bard/cavalier/battle herald/dragon disciple.

Half orc with their mount feat, the feat that let's your AC level based on character instead of cavalier level, take pteranodon mount. Never got to finish it, but I loved the character concept.

Oh and he was mythic, so he was able to get like a +80 to intimidate at level 4 or something.

Half orc General, riding above his troops giving bonuses, plus a little casting.


We've played the game before but never finished, and this time since my character is a viking prince who struck out for his own glory (4th in line for the throne back home) I'm considering just challenging him to a fist fight. Don't think it will go over well with the Populace, but it would be so satisfying.


I don't like these sorts of puzzles in my games because it creates a disconnect between character and player. Lets say this was in my mummy's mask campaign. I couldn't figure it out, but I feel like my 20 int alchemist could. On the flip side, the party barbarian has 8 int, but the player gets these sorts of puzzles amazingly fast.


Sirmyself wrote:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/magic-weapons-non-core/we apon-property---guided

This feat seems to act pretty much like the "guided" weapon property. It explicitly says a two-handed weapon damage bonus is not adjusted. Therefore, I would say this feat does the same for the attack bonus.

The fact that one explicitly calls it out while the other doesn't suggests the opposite to me, along with the fact that guided is actually a 3.5 rule isn't it?

So I would say the guided weapon property, while clearly being related, is irrelevant.


If the GM used the flavor and agreed with it then thems the breaks. If you are the gm and disagreed, thems the breaks. While flavor is not rules it is not irrelevant in every case.

Also why the disingenuous lead in with the question about skeletons if your real question was about the moon beast?

So the answer is not so simple as the skeleton one, I'd like to know how the dm ruled.


Yeah, that was my point. There is, like Carl said, nothing but fluff for most creatures to be able to see. The skeleton is not called out as being blind outside of darkvision, so it's not.

You might be able to argue the moon beast because it has no mention of blindness in its stat block, but most people would probably disagree.

So to answer the original question without snark, skeletons can see in normal light.


Dwarves have just darkvision and no other mentioned vision can they see in normal light? Half elves have low light vision, guess they can't either.

While the blindness of the moon beast may be debatable, the skeleton can see as normal in normal light, because regular vision is not called out, just assumed to be there.


I agree with David Knott, connecting it to the overreaching story helps a lot. Like I took the vengeance feat in Kingmaker and my dm made the guy who enslaved me also be the boss of the first book.

I don't know this in character, but when we fight him, I'll realize it, allowing me to complete that story arc for my character without having to go off solo or derailing everything else.


I had no idea they removed it, that's baffling given who he is. Yeah, just talk to your gm, and hope that developers admitting it was a mistake is enough.


We did this once, and banned classes similar to how you suggested. No wizard, but sorcerer and witch were ok, no clerics or paladins, but oracles were fine. I think bards got nixed, alchemists for sure. No fighters, unless you took it later from a martial full bab class, post level 4 I think? Also no metal armors, metal weapons were rare and almost exclusively made by dwarves. Also many racial prejudices didn't exist yet, so the half orc got on fine with the rest.

This also changed the world later when we time jumped to our descendants. Of note, my dwarf saved some minotaurs from slavery, so it was almost unheard of to have minotaur slaves, and the dwarf and minotaur royalty were protected by each other. Only way into the minotaur palace is a series of hidden Stone doors. Only way into dwarf palace was through a labyrinth.


Yeah otherwise monks would be attacking 5 times (punch punch kick kick headbutt) and that's not even including elbows and knees.


I'm currently building a mammoth rider. I do love prestige classes, and I wish more were better, but I do feel like archetypes and certain classes have filled some niches very nicely, like I feel less need for music theurge with the witch class (though I wish MT was better still).

Kinda related I really like the npc codex eldritch knight barb sorcerer (I think he was a half orc, with a very Arctic vibe) as I always saw eldritch knights as wizard fighters.


Byakko wrote:
Sah wrote:

I'm sure this will just start another argument but I feel I must point out that humans do in fact have tails, they are just so small they are internal. That's what your tail bone is, a vestigial tail.

Thus, the argument that you can't grow an extra one if you don't have one is moot.

Within the context of the game, I believe humans don't count as having tails (even if they do in a strict anatomical sense).

But if you insist, wish granted:

You now have extra human tail bones. I suppose this would result in a very large and unsightly growth on your lower back.

Cool, flavor it as you like. They still get the magic though, as again the only prerequisite is kitsune, which someone with Racial Heritage: kitsune counts as for feats.


I don't even understand how wisdom and sense motive could possibly be used to convince someone to buy something, from a flavor perspective (if thats what ashiel meant by mindset, and reality being mechanics, I apologize if I misunderstood).

On the flipside sure. Someone naive being swindled by a skilled liar. (IE sense motive, a WIS skill, vs bluff, a CHA skill)

A car salesman having a penalty for Charisma for being a stereotypical skeezy car salesman (not saying all are, but thinking cartoon villain here) I can see that. But that guy isn't going to be a very good car salesman. And a devil is trying to make a deal with you thats far worse than being sold a lemon.


The fact that the devil one has a minus to cha really bothered me for my infernal sorc/diabolist who was a lawyer. So he was pitborn instead.


I'm sure this will just start another argument but I feel I must point out that humans do in fact have tails, they are just so small they are internal. That's what your tail bone is, a vestigial tail.

Thus, the argument that you can't grow an extra one if you don't have one is moot.

Also, I'm going to state it again, the idea that you require the kitsune magic trait is flat out wrong, the ONLY requirement is kitsune, which you count as with Racial Heritage.

You want to argue that it should? Fine, but as is, it doesn't. It's not vague, it may have been an oversight for all we know, but it's not a requirement.


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I just wanted to share that the thread title inspired me to create a whip focused character whose weapon is flavored as a fishing rod. Just an old man who wants to fish gets dragged along to save the world.


I wish it wasn't an elf only archetype, so you could be a halfling, and ride into Isengard in style.


BLIB wrote:
Whiskey Jack wrote:

Yowza. Thanks. It sounds like "and comedy ensues" should be part of the announcement a player should have to tack on when saying they are firing this bad-boy up.

I can't help picturing two barbarians slapping each other in turn over and over again.

I've a barb L12 and would interrupt this dance with an Improved Vital Strike attack to deal more damage and end the fight...

Can you AoO vital strike?


My gm had a series of events for a festival, that allowed the characters to meet each other, focusing on attributes the characters might be good at. For instance, there was the keg throwing contest for the strong characters, hide and seek for the sneaky, tug of war, balancing on a rope, intelligence games the cup game you mentioned.

There was also different tents for food, drink, performing etc.


IIRC, Iron Gods has some Kasatha using two two handed weapons. Now, that doesn't mean the average character can do so, but there is precedent.


A creature used blink on itself, then proceeded to miss because of it on every attack except one. None of the party missed him. He dealt a grand total of 6 damage to the level 5 party.

And he was the final boss of the dungeon.


I see why people would think that you can't AoO with the vestigial arms, but I disagree. The arms can't be used for extra attacks sure, but you have the ability to AoO at least once per turn (so its not extra).


Wait even from different sources? I thought that was just a black blade specific thing.


Glych wrote:

In a game I was in we had a goblin "cleric" (read: alchemist) who worshipped the great god K'Boom. The guy was awesome to play with, as he fleshed out pantheon to contain K'Boom's brother, K'Blam, and his son, K'Blooie. The universe was started when K'Boom and K'Blam came together and created the first bomb, resulting in the Big Bang. K'Boom is the god of things that violently explode, and K'Blam is the god of the things that explode violently.

While that particular pantheon probably won't fit into your game, it probably wouldn't be too hard to justify a goblin god of fire having his favoured weapon be some form of bomb :)

I already favorited this post, but I just really want this to be a thing.


Alright so looking at the list linked The Arachnid robot doesn't have hardness (and is fragile), nor does the mannequin robot, or rust risen.

The rest had hardness 10 except I think Observer and Scrapyard who had hardness 5. It seems to be the thing with Robots to give them hardness over DR.


Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Protoman wrote:
Check out the robots in Golarion.

That doesn't provide any sort of proof that they're any separate from Constructs. That page actually says they're Constructs, but of a separate sub-type, which means they're still constructs. That's like saying Elves aren't Humanoids, because they have the Humanoid (Elf) subtype. And that sub-type doesn't provide any mention of them receiving Hardness, meaning it would be a creature-specific subject, such as Animated Objects.

Now Animated Objects, I can understand having Hardness, because they count as both a creature and an object for all intents and purposes. But full-on Constructs as a whole? Unless they're powered down, then they can't be treated like Objects, which means any Hardness rules would not apply unless they're specified, as is the case with Animated Objects. And last I checked, Hardness doesn't have an entry in the Universal Monster Rules, so I don't know how you're pulling all of this out of thin air. Perhaps you should use a step-by-step process.

If you look under robots defense section (idk if it's all of them, but all I ran into while dming iron gods) you find they have Hardness instead of dr/ there.

I don't know why, but it was definitely problematic for the low level melee characters.


Yeah, but back then our group didn't really look for errata, we just had what was in the books we had on hand.


I think it was the ninjato that had been printed with a crit range of 19-29. Useless extra numbers by itself but by doubling the crit range (keen) it was 9-29, before any other shenanigans.


One of my favorite characters that I have never had the chance to play is an old man who thinks he is a wizard, but is actually a gunslinger.

"I only got the one spell, but it's a good one. Abra cadabra *bang*"


I just remembered one of our first 3.5 parties. We never finished the campaign, but the GM incorporated the characters into the world in later campaigns.

The aquatic elf Swashbuckler (me) became king of an underwater kingdom in the area.

The wizard became the Archmage of a Wizarding college.

I can't remember the class, but one player ran the tavern we owned in a coastal village where the campaign started. With the help of the trap maker he made a cannon that fired exploding kegs to defend the town.

Gek, the npc trap maker Kobold (he joined when my elf captured him after the group he was with was defeated) turned out to be amazing (dm kept rolling 20's with him to his own frustration) became so revered amongst Kobolds that his connections with us made it possible for Kobolds to become a regular part of society, and when he died at the ripe age of 30 (ancient for kobold in this campaign) he ascended to God-hood.

John the Bastard was the only npc town guard to survive the first encounter, named so for his Bastard sword and his incredible luck (including surviving a balista bolt fired through a door he was checking) that he too ascended to God-hood, as a God of war.

The druid is naked in a forest somewhere.


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One of my characters I'm playing is a dragon bloodline Bloodrager, so he plans on retiring with a hoard.

Another is a cavalier devoted to Cayden Calien, so he's probably going to be the one opening a bar.

I kinda want my witch to become something like Baba Yaga, some sort of mythical witch traveling from place to place.

My barbarian is a sailor, so probably a captain.


The prerequisites have an alternative to being a divine spellcaster, and the benefit does not say divine spells so yes, it works with arcane casters.


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My male Draconic Bloodrager realized that Nualia's armor was better than his. He feels very sexy in his new armor.


I would allow it to create a burst, but certainly not 15 feet, in a game I dm. You would also definitely take damage though.


I know you said you wanted to avoid sorcerer, but I just have to say that Imperious bloodline is very flavorful for this AP.


Fourshadow wrote:

It's a trait and it has to do with race: ergo, a racial trait. I know of no GM who would nix that tiny distinction. I mean this would be the nit-pickiest nit to pick I have ever seen.

Blood of Dragons should work.

Except they are entirely different. Let's change the names, We have a series of elephants you get for choosing a race, and there is a list of seals you can choose from. Some of the seals are elephant seals, they are not elephants, they just have a similar name.


The zoo I used to work at had an albino alligator and they needed to keep him shaded otherwise he would get sunburns. I don't know about fur though.


As I understood it, the vows do not trade it still mind the same way other archetypal abilities do, so ninjas and other ki users can use them, even monk archetypes that trade it out. But Ymmv, and it does seem odd that only one (two counting unchained) class gives something up for it.


Besides the fact that this faq came out after the crb, I feel that the Devs consider the different Banes to be separate abilities.

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