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Wei Ji the Learner wrote:
I'm running with it as fast as my scaly legs can carry me. But that's a non PFS campaign, and theoretically off topic.
It's important to remember that the most complex and convoluted character build is really only a conveyance for a good story to be told. It's hard to tell a story when the cast is dead...
The assertion that powergamers do so in a bid to 'win' Pathfinder needs to die. It's inflammatory and quite often (90+% I'd wager) wrong.
I build strong characters because I was taught to do the best I could. If it's worth doing, it's worth doing well. I take my time on each character, researching every option for every component of my build, considering which pieces fit best for what I want the character to do. Some of these choices inform the personality I eventually develop for said character. In the end, I come up with a design I enjoy because it does something unusual, while contributing to parties in whatever roles I selected when I wrote the character and hopefully providing an entertaining persona to bind the whole thing together.
I do this not to win, nor do I ever need to cheat. The very implication that I would do either is insulting in the extreme. I build strong characters because I should. Because to do less could lead to my letting other people at my table down when a critical check or action arises, but more importantly, because I would let myself down by not giving it my 100%.
For Magi? Not much better than just mainlining the class.For martials that don't cast? 3 levels in Horizon Walker, oddly enough.
An encounter occurs in a small inlet of a nearby body of water the city sits adjacent to. The GM calls for initiative, then sets out four crab figurines.
He does seem a pretty stand up chap there, eh?
And how exactly will you force me to GM for this person?
Who said I'd force you to run a table you weren't comfortable running?
If you have a problem with a jackhole player who's making players uncomfortable for reasons not pertaining to in game mechanics, talk with your VO.
SO that player stopped the game for 30 minutes to complain about how she offended by the use of that word. That same player does this often.
Discuss this player with your local venture officers and consider how best to deal with this going forward, since it's clearly disruptive behavior if it's taking 30 minutes of game time away from 4+ other people on a frequency of more than once.
Paladins can not prepare Infernal Healing nor use wands of it as it's not on their class list.
Use Magic Device.
*looks at thread* Yeah, because more outrage is totally what we need around here... >.>
There's actually a slower but far easier way too. There's also a new Kitsune curse for oracles that lets a Kitsune take a tail feat instead of a mystery spell. It's slower, sure, but it seems good to me. It also gives you some extra spells known in addition to that.
That curse effectively means you can take a Magical Tail feat at every level starting at 1 until you get your last tail at level 8. Not a terrible way to go. It does lock you out of quite a few archetypes for Oracle, but hey! Spirit Guide is not one of the locked out archetypes! So a Kitsune Spirit Guide Oracle 8 would have all the tails, virtually no benefit from their selected mystery other than a single revelation chosen at level 1, but would get flexible extra spells known and hex from Wandering Spirit, making up for the lost spells from mystery...
And I now know what I'll be rebuilding my level 8 PFS Occultist Arcanist into. Kineticist? Pshaw. Kitsune Oracle baby! Assuming it's made legal...
Alex Mack wrote:
Kitsune Rogue can asesmble all tails by level 9. Taking the swashbuckler Rogue Archetype allows you to take 3 bonus feats via Ninja Trick: Combat Trick and Combat Trickx2.
A rogue cannot select a ninja trick with the same name as a rogue talent. As such, a Kitsune Swashbuckler Rogue can assemble all tails by level 11.
I don't actually do this; it's much more entertaining for all involved to watch the players earn their losses of prestige/gold/boons or accrual of negative boons. As far as what characters show up to play, I only look at things when we encounter a grey area, something doesn't add up, or if I have a known cheater sit the table, at which point I audit the entire table. I don't want to know your tricks before they become relevant, and I don't particularly care how mechanically strong your character is. I'm going to present the scenario as written to the best of my ability, if your group is good enough to win, then great. If you don't have the mechanics to get through the challenges, be they combat or not, then I will cheerfully hand you your butt!
In theory, the campaign leadership, scenario writers, and devs have provided us a mechanically balanced construct with which to play games. It should, therefore, not fall to a GM to veto legal characters due to imbalance concerns. That said, I recognize the system ain't perfect, but I'm still not comfortable with GMs exercising that level of executive power, given the whole point of Organized Play is having characters you can play literally anywhere on the planet.
This is where my point regarding perception lies. You are dead set to frame things negatively, referring to loss of a talent for expanding to other elements. I am choosing to frame things positively, highlighting the gain of a talent for sticking with your base element. In theory, either observation is valid, but framing things negatively results in undesirable negative emotional responses and rhetoric.
Ultimately, this is the point where I cease arguing about this topic.
WRT Earth's Expanded Element options: I'd say Air, for flight, but you get it at 10 and it is pretty much diametrically opposed thematically. Aether could be neat for TK Invis in theory, letting you burrow underground, vanish, then resurface invisibly somewhere. The composite blast for Aether is pretty bad though. Fire gets you Eruption for area nukes and an energy blast, which you might care about. Water can give you its awesome shield ability with Expanded Defense, further amplifying your defenses. I know a guy who built a tanky earth kineticist, but I think he went full Earth instead of splitting off into Water.
False equivocation.A more accurate equivalence would be: You're scheduled to work on the 1st, 3rd, 5th, 9th, and 11th. If you come in on the 7th, we'll pay you extra.
At no point does the class say "you get an infusion every odd level unless you expanded element into a different element, then we're taking your 7th level infusion away" it instead says you get talents at 1, 2, and every two levels thereafter and infusions at levels 1, 3, 5, 9, etc. The inference that you're gaining an infusion every odd level is just that: an inference.
Gaining infusions at level works fine, it just means you'll actually take burn (maybe) instead of mitigating it entirely with infusion specialization.
We're lucky the Extra Talent feat exists at all, given statements by the devs regarding similar Extra X feats. That said, yes, the -4 level is painful.
Maybe I missed something. Are there Wood and Shadow kineticists? Or is this something being added in one of the other books? I'd really be interested in a Shadow kineticist.
Currently kineticists are only the five elements described in the Occult Adventures supplement (barring 3PP sources which I don't look at) but hope springs eternal, it's entirely feasible to see other elements like the eastern elemental wheel represented in future products. Further separation into light and dark based descriptors, while interesting, might be a bridge too far, but one can never be too sure.
This has been clarified by the design team in one of the kineticist threads. The short reasoning is: the replacement mechanic in no way invalidates or removes any restrictions placed on talent acquisition.
As far as the expanded element talent thing: I'm not saying it's perfect. I am saying I can sort of see what they were going for. As far as the way we react to it, viewing it as a benefit for specialization or a penalty for expanding, that's entirely up to us. We control how we feel, not other people. Which is a fact that is seemly lost on people in general, given the amount of outrage over various issues on a daily basis, but I digress. Point is: mechanically, we get +Talent for going single element or we get +options going multi element. Which is preferable is entirely up to the individual. I, for example, have elected mono element for my Aether kineticist so I can get Foe Throw at 7, opening up 9 and 11 for Snake and Kinetic Whip.
Side note: if I were able to select infusions as 2*talentLevel-1, I'd have taken Foe Throw at 5, Kinetic Whip at 7, Snake at 9 and Disintegrating Infusion at 11 instead of adding two levels to each of those entries. This would've put Disintegrating Infusion right at the time when wizards get actual Disintegrate, instead of an entire spell level behind (a character level behind when sorcerers and arcanists get the same spell.) Similar effects, similar timeline.
Wilson Abrams wrote:
I know I've said this a number of times before, but I find this design choice seriously questionable, it's like holding class features hostage.
Well, it does make a kind of sense in that there needs to be a strong incentive to expand your initial element. Expanding to any other element opens a plethora of options, so to even begin to match that versatility, something akin to an extra talent makes a great degree of sense. I recognize that we're already paying for improved element access with that painful -2 to talent level access and a feat tax if we want the defense of that element, but these restrictions aren't enough on their own, something else was needed.
That said, the way talent levels are lined up with regard to leveling is... clunky and annoying. If the access to talents were 2*(talentLevel)-1 instead of 2*(talentLevel), things would snap together significantly better than they do currently. You'd get access to infusions at appropriate times, making all those level 3 talents actually accessible instead of being gated behind your choice of 3 levels or expanded element, and there'd be no functional change to utility talent acquisition since we get those on even levels.
My familiars have proven better pathfinders on occasion than some of the dregs they drag out of bed at 2 am to go investigate the thumps and bumps in the museum...
They've certainly been less likely to commit serial murder at the drop of a hat.
The idea with suggesting telekinetic blast for the use of a rod is more to circumvent the restriction on holding something while gathering energy. While it's not super useful, using the rod as a kinetic blade focus ignores the restriction on holding it and allows you to use it's effects for that telekinetic blade.
And then you need to buy a new rod...
Duly noted. Apologies for the misinformation upthread.
I've been working up a PFS kineticist for the last two weeks... I think I'm just going to make it a gunslinger and call it a day.
Wouldn't you be dealing damage to the rod with each hit? ;o)
Not necessarily.TK Blast operates in two ways: option 1, you deal blast damage, the item takes no damage. Option 2, you deal damage as if throwing the item, swapping Con for Str, and dealing damage to both item and target.
Adding KT Blade to the mix, you can full attack in melee dealing blast damage, or you can full attack in melee dealing damage as if you'd thrown the weapon, swapping Con for Str, dealing damage to both item and target with each swing.
KT Whip functions as KT Blade, which makes things odd when considering whether one get the benefits of magic items that operate when held in conjunction with TK Blast.
Three Scenarios in which it is possible to earn full rewards without combat:
Library of the Lion, The Disappeared, and, if you're clever, the Technic Siege can all be done with zero combats taking place, IIRC. There are more, but those three are ones I have experienced.
Physical blasters tend to pick up Deadly Aim too, since with empower mixed in it's fairly analogous to 2 handed Power Attack (-1atk/+3dmg)
Of course, a physical blader/whipper would grab Power Attack or (more likely) Piranha Strike for the same idea in melee, netting even more raw damage due to iteratives. Whether the acc loss translates into these feats resulting in less dpr instead of more is a question for people who want to bother crunching the numbers. I just know those feats are nice for raising the damage floor and ceiling a little bit more.
That content would be nice to see.
My recommendation is to give it a spin, see what kind of viewership you end up with. If you build it, they will come. If you talk about building it, you'll be shouted down by everyone who feels threatened because you aren't playing a fighter with 20 int.
DM Beckett wrote:
Actually, if it's the scenario I'm thinking about, you know the one that's specifically designed for brand new players and explicitly has a lot of NPCs sitting there to be on hand to help the Players along with questions and lore like this, I'm tempted to say this is a case of worst DM. :P
Yup, it's that scenario. The only one I've run across with that particular item in it. And yeah, it's a 1-2 scenario, so not impossible for a character to not know about the item and not have a wayfinder in the group.
Really wish you'd stayed with the standard color scheme. Makes it harder for readers to use your guide if their brain is used to purple=best when your purple=meh.
Kensai aren't proficient with armor, so armor enchantments are harder to get.
Haramaki. No ACP, no ASF. Doesn't turn off your class features. Lets you get armor enchants.
Alternately: Silken Ceremonial Armor is the same.
Alternately alternately: Bracers of Armor.
Armor enchants are in no way difficult to get, regardless of your proficiencies. More challenging is shield enchants, since even the lowly buckler disables your canny defense.
Well, like I mentioned before (but got shot down by a DPR Olympian), Esoteric Advantage would help. It's a knowledge check and a move action to effectively reduce any one of a single target's defenses against you with unlimited use per day.
Seriously?Let me try this again, at the risk of being called names yet again.
You have one move action and one standard action. Your standard is going to using your blast, that leaves one move action.
Your choices are:
A) Reduce their resistance/DR by 2 if you made a check.
B) Gather Power
Option A is straightforward. You trade your move to reduce their resistance by 2 with a check.
Option B reduces your burn by 1 (or 2, at or after level 11.) This lets you do all sorts of fun and crazy things, like lob an empowered blast, lob a composite blast, or other esoteric options based on your talent selection. Most of these result in more than 2 points of damage.
Because Option B is categorically superior to Option A, there is never a point in which using Option A is preferable.
I'd also like to challenge the myth that Kineticists suck at doing single target damage, but I already have quite a few times. Kineticists, built properly, can do similar damage to blaster casters depending on the level break used. See the discussion between Casual Viking and myself regarding level 6-7 Scorching Ray Sorcerers and generic physical blast Kineticists.
Running scenarios cold is just more hard core.
I run all my scenarios cold
This was not a joke, even when I read through them in advance I can't remember what I read the next day.
I bet this would probably be a good feat for a Kineticist to help get around a lot of what might hold them up, though I'm not sure how widely allowed it would be.
Not really.It's two points of damage for a move action. Terrible exchange. Particularly since the kineticist has Gather Power, which is a move action and effectually lets you empower without burn, resulting in far more than 2 points of damage.
I mean, you could take it, but you'd get better mileage out of Skill Focus: Craft(basketweaving)
Which is already possible. Of course, we won't go into how those scenarios may be more dangerous than others or how putting all your eggs in one basket makes for a sour experience when said basket eats an unrecoverable character death or simply retires.
It comes down to this: knowing the items on a chronicle ahead of time tells you a vast amount of information about what is in the scenario. Scrolls of X tell you that you will face a spellcaster with an ability to cast said scroll. A potion of invisibility tells you that an enemy may be invisible and you should get something to counter it. A rapier of ghost touch tells you that you will face some form of dex based fighting class that may be crit fishing and that the ability to attack incorporeal creatures may be important. I could go on and on and on. The point is, items on the chronicle tell you WAY WAY WAY more about the encounters in the scenario than any player needs to know.
Not necessarily. There's plenty of scenarios where those things show up in random loot caches or are given to you by the VC or other NPC at the start, not on actual enemies. And anyway, you should be preparing to face those enemies in general. I don't generally play characters in PFS that can't solve for invis past level 3 or solve for fly past level 5, for instance.
Feel free to scenario farm then, I guess?
So if you're in a small playgroup who doesn't have the playerbase to go through a scenario more than once, you're just screwed?
Or, we could solve the actual issue of information restriction via a crowdsourced databank of spoiler free chronicle content made available openly and stop demonizing people for wanting to make informed decisions on how they spend their time.
Except some chronicles have boons on them that are awarded based on decisions made in the scenario. Such information is a spoiler (ranging from minor to major of course). That seems to me like it would not "preserve much of the scenario's mystery."
You misunderstand.The proposed database would include the effects of the boon, but not how to achieve it.
For example, Confirmation, a scenario pretty much everyone should be conversant with, would have the following data:
Boon: cheap wayfinder enhancements, cheap wayfinder
Boon: Single use augury effect for success conditions
Boon: +1 on knowledge checks while in Grand Lodge
Gear: <list of available items>
Gp: <gp by tier>
No data on how to obtain the boons, or loot, just that the stuff is achievable in the scenario. If you fail to get what you wanted, you screwed up. Contrast to how it is now, where you show up to a scenario and its a crap shoot whether the stuff on the chronicle is even desirable for the character you played.
The suggestion didn't offend me, but your comma splices did!
Here's the thing: Currently, one needs the scenario in hand to access the chronicle. If, however, chronicle perusal were less demonized, it would be feasible to create a database with chronicle rewards and make it available. Then those who want information on chronicle contents would have a location to look at rewards without accessing the entire scenario.
Not that you actually need to read the entire scenario to get at the chronicle. Those are commonly kept at the end of the document, thus opening the .pdf and skipping to the last page without reading the 20-30 pages between is entirely possible, preserving much of the scenario's mystery.
Welcome to Book X of <insert AP name here>! Now you get to do your second multiple story dungeon crawl! The first one was back in book 2, now it's book X and you're Y level, so you'll be facing five full sprawling dungeon levels with room after room of enemies! Oh, and three traps. But tons and tons of stuff that's utterly uninterested in talking to you beyond feints and taunts. Roll for your first initiative of the night, but keep that die handy, since we'll be rolling new inits in every room and hallway!
The above is not hyperbole, by and large. There is seriously a book in one of the APs that opens on a five floor dungeon complex. There's a fight in nearly every room with creatures that do not care who you are or what you want, they just want your stuff so they might escape their prison. That or they are under orders to kill interlopers.
Longetivity matters, on occasion.
According to which specific enumerated rule?
To be clear, my position on all this is easily summed up thusly: I'm in favor of fun. It's not fun to look at a chronicle sheet and see what's basically a blank sheet save for 1 xp, 2 pa, and x gold. It's also not fun to have stuff spoiled for you by inconsiderate players, but this is easily policed by simple social contract. If someone spoils adventure stuff, tell them to knock it off. If they keep doing it, kick them out. There is no solution for secret chronicle sheets being effectively blank when applied to the wrong character beyond making the information on them available for player perusal.
Or you could just use blast damage for substantially higher damage.
A) what rule is broken by looking at a chronicle sheet?B) You just violated the Core Tenets of organized play as described on page 5 of the guide.
I hate that this is the community's* stance...
*the community framed as the opinions of a small group of vocal personages on the forums, which is a different kettle of fish entirely...
Casual Viking wrote:
Traits: Gifted Adept (APG), Missionary (APG)
The trait you're looking for is Lore Seeker, not Missionary. The latter only works for divine casters, the former is for arcane.
I would note that adding more to Scorching Ray's CL does nothing. Essentially, advancing Scorching Ray further would require you to access metamagic feats, which would lock out use of your drum due to action economy... In effect, while you get more spells and of higher levels, your build's resources for the first six levels went to a spell that dead ended. Meanwhile, the kineticist's damage continues to scale non linearly by level, and he picks up neat little options usable pretty much at will such as TK Invis or Celerity.
Adding even one level to the comparison gives the Scorching Ray caster nothing save a feat and more casts per day, while the Kineticist gains Composite Blasts, another talent, and more damage. An Empowered Physical Composite Blast, for example, does 12d6+33 assuming level of 7, Con 22, Deadly Aim, and full Elemental Overflow benefit. So which does more, blaster caster or kineticist, depends entirely on the level break points, in much the same way as a Wizard looking better than a Sorcerer at odd level breaks.
Or at least, that's been my initial examination of the class...
Meanwhile, an empowered physical blast does 32 dmg at 6th level.
4d6+25= average 39 damage, 41 with point blank shot. This assumes 6 Con mod, deadly aim, and 3 points of burn accepted at the start of the day.
3d6+3 (Blast) +6 Con +4 Elemental Overflow +4 Deadly Aim +1d6+8 Empower
Attack roll is 4(Bab)+4 to 5(Dex) +2 Elemental Overflow -2 Deadly Aim, or roughly +8 or +9 at level 6, one higher with point blank shot.
Aether, Air, and Water all give good utility, Earth provides interesting defensive options, Fire is... well it's fire... and it does... things...