Paizo Top Nav Branding
  • Hello, Guest! |
  • Sign In |
  • My Account |
  • Shopping Cart |
  • Help/FAQ
About Paizo Messageboards News Paizo Blog Help/FAQ

Ryzoken's page

404 posts. Alias of Ryzouken.


RSS

1 to 50 of 404 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | next > last >>

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Secret Wizard wrote:


2. Oracle - Less versatile overall.

3. Druid - restricted casting while in "battle mode".

2. I take it you haven't looked into the Spirit Guide archetype. Instant versatility.

3. Uh... what? Assuming by 'battle mode' you mean Wildshape, There's feat(s) for that. Natural Spell for starters followed by Wild Speech takes care of pretty much every casting restriction imposed by Wildshape, save for access to metamagic rods. But then, you're a spell casting dinosaur, so who cares?

Don't really disagree with your other stuff.


Ragoz wrote:

41 AC seems to be about what you need to be untouchable until Seeker levels. Maybe focus on trying to be more efficient with the bonuses at this point so you can fit more into the build besides that.

Ideally you want to give the enemy a reason to have to try and kill you so that the high AC doesn't mean your party is getting attacked instead.

Efficiency is the name of the game. It's why I didn't go higher than +3 on Armor/Shield or +2 on Ring or Amulet. Should be doable on a level 11 salary, assuming you didn't need to shell out for multiple raise dead castings on the way up, which you shouldn't have needed to.

That's also why attention was paid to maintaining decent melee capability, to ensure people keep swinging at you because you're a threat. The theorycraft in my prior post springs from a PFS DD build I put together that wasn't defense optimized. I'd gone DD purely for moar Str! but then realized that hey, that's +4 Natural Armor that stacks with existing Natural Armor and an Amulet. That's the basis for a defense build and, well, instant tank.

The problem, Renegadesheperd, in going with the crusader cleric is that you don't qualify for DD due to the Kobolds of Golarion book not being PFS legal. My assembly covers the arcane casting prereq by dipping into Archaeologist Bard, which also dovetails nicely with Fate's Favored and the focus on self buffing, amping our saves, atk, dmg, and skill checks. You could achieve similar by dipping a level of Archaeologist Bard, but you'd have dropped 2 BAB before entering DD, and lost a cleric caster level to boot, not to mention DD not advancing clerical progression without that kobold feat (which doesn't work for Cleric due to not being a spontaneous divine caster)

I really wish I had a better answer for what to put in the pre DD 3 level stack. Savage Tech 1, Archaeologist 1 are easy, but once they're in, the question becomes what do I take without sacrificing BAB. I've considered Mutagenic Mauler Brawler for more AC by dint of its mutagen, but didn't like relying on a 30min consumable that takes an hour to brew. There's about three Fighter archetypes worth considering (Viking, Lore Warden, Weapon Master) for varying reasons. There's Musket Master Gunslinger for the luls, since I get the fast musket ability right before DD, shoring up my ranged capabilities in theory... except a bow is superior due to my freakishly high strength. I could take Ranger, if I hated myself. I considered Martial Artist Monk, but that eliminates my only true dump stat (which I don't want to dump anyway) and clashes with Nagaji and with wearing armor, effectively lowering my AC.

/headdesk


cnetarian wrote:
Nagaji doesn't work because they cannot qualify for racial heritage (a human feat) to qualify for scaled discipline (a kobold feat). Unless scaled discipline has made it into some new book, this isn't PFS legal as nothing in Kobolds of Golarion is PFS legal.

Divine Protection isn't PFS legal either, which is why when I went for a defensive 'tank' build I went the way I did. Obviously if he went Nagaji, he'd have to cycle out his feats for other stuff and qualify for DD somehow, but there's plenty of other stuff to get so... meh?


Sacred Fist 2 Master of Many Styles Monk 1-2 Sacred Fist +X
Produces a crazy Pummeling Charge-ing super monk that self buffs with Divine Favor and other stuff. Can also swift action Silence to utterly shut down casters in combat unless they have Silent Spell metamagic.

It's... potent. Give it a spin.


Were I going similar lines, I'd eschew Oracle entirely.
Nagaji Savage Technologist 1, Archaeologist Bard 1, XXXX 3, Dragon Disciple 7
[S 16 D 14 C 14 I 8 W 10 C 16] or [S 16 D 14 C 14 I 13 W 8 C 14]
Feats: Quick Draw, Lingering Performance, Power Attack, Shield Focus, Dodge

Slot in either Lore Warden Fighter 2/Archaeologist +1, or Weapon Master 3 for XXXX. Lore Warden grants Combat Expertise, letting you ignore your Int, Weapon Master 3 gets you Weapon Training 1 so you can buy Dueling Gloves for +3 hit and damage in the long run.

@12: AC is 28 pre magic armor or combat expertise
10 + 4 Dex + 6 armor (mithril breastplate) + 5 nat arm + 2 shield (quickdraw light shield) +1 dodge

Attack is, conservatively:
BAB 9 + Str Mod 8 + 2 Luck + 1 Weapon Training + 2 morale (Heroism, castable) - Pwr Atk of 3 - Combat Expertise of 3 = +16 pre magic
for 1d8 + Str mod*1.5 (12) + PAtk (9) + Weapon Training 1 + 2 Luck = 1d8+24

Magic items increase these stats significantly quickly.
+1 Weapon, Dueling Gloves, +6 Str Belt makes our attack into
+22 for 1d8+39
+3 armor, +3 shield, +2 Ring of Prot, +2 Amulet of Nat Arm, Jingasa, Ioun stone raise AC to 41, 44 after Combat Expertise

Saving throws aren't too bad either, thanks to Achaeologist's luck, multiclassing, and Rage adding in. Throw in a +4 cloak of resist over time and you're probably good to go.

We eschewed a tower shield so we can use a quickdraw shield during opponents' turns and two hand a weapon during our turn for rough beats.

Use of it what you will. If nothing else, I really recommend grabbing a quickdraw shield instead of the tower shield so you can up your damage.


Make him a Nagaji for +1 Nat arm (and Str and Cha, which are your primary stats anyway)
Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier for +2 AC
Dusty Pale Prism Ioun Stone for +1 AC
Standard Magic armor/shield/Ring of Prot/Amulet of Nat arm

*

Amusing note: My highest level CORE characters are a pounce-kitty druid (7) and a Bardbarian going Dragon Disciple (1Bar/4Bard)

The other high level CORE characters in Nefreet and I's zone are a Barbarian/Shadowdancer (I helped do a thing, it turned out awesome), a blaster sorcerer, and a monk. And others I may be forgetting. But those are the ones I routinely see. Oh, and like 2-3 clerics.


DominusMegadeus wrote:
Triune wrote:
DominusMegadeus wrote:
Ryzoken wrote:
DominusMegadeus wrote:
Tell him that and give him the ultimatum:

The absolute fastest way to flip someone's switch is to issue them an ultimatum.

I can tell you that if I were issued such an ultimatum, I'd walk. It wouldn't be out of a refusal to toe the party line or not, it would be an issue of respect, or lack thereof.

Discuss the issue with your player, brainstorm ideas together for solving the problem locally, and implement those ideas until you find what works.

See? The powergamer left, problem solved.

What unhelpful, trollish drivel.

He was right you know. Issuing ultimatums is a great way to drive wedges into otherwise healthy groups. If you start viewing tablemates as the enemy, it's time to find another game to play.

Did you read what the ultimatum was? Because neither of the options was "go away ur a jerk". If the WP doesn't lower his optimization or help the rest of the party get on his level, the AP becomes a joke. It can be fixed one of three ways, but the third way was not brought up because telling people to leave is never the first thing you try.

*starts to respond*

My inside voce: "Forget it, Ryzo. It's the Paizo forums, our kind ain't welcome here."

Me: Thanks, me. *walks away*


4 people marked this as a favorite.
DominusMegadeus wrote:
Tell him that and give him the ultimatum:

The absolute fastest way to flip someone's switch is to issue them an ultimatum.

I can tell you that if I were issued such an ultimatum, I'd walk. It wouldn't be out of a refusal to toe the party line or not, it would be an issue of respect, or lack thereof.

Discuss the issue with your player, brainstorm ideas together for solving the problem locally, and implement those ideas until you find what works.


RainyDayNinja wrote:
You can get a haramaki or silken ceremonial robes for +1 AC with no spell failure chance. And since you don't need bracers of armor, it opens up your wrist slot for something like spellguard bracers later.

Or just get a wand of Mage Armor for +4 AC.

A haramaki is still not a bad investment down the line, but Mage Armor is going to be your go to armor source until you're staring at 16k gp after having bought a +6 headband and +4 mithril buckler, at which point you might consider swapping to a +4 haramaki instead of burning charges from incredibly cheap wands.

A mithril buckler is 1k and change and isn't a bad addition to your defenses, if you can't find a cloak of resist on your chronicles. 0 ACF, 0 ACP, +1 AC and able to be enchanted. Stacks with Mage Armor, too.


Spells for PA wands:
Mage Armor, Comp Lang, Endure Elements, Magic Missile (I call it "Killstealer")

Spells for PA wands if you invest in UMD:
Faerie Fire, Ill Omen, Cure Light (might want to buy this regardless), Bless Weapon, Longstrider

Spells for PA scrolls:
Lesser Restoration x5, Stone Call x5, Haste x2, Fly x2, Pyrotechnics x5, Spider Climb x5

Remember that you suffer arcane spell failure when wearing armor. To that end, skip the darkleaf and get comfortable with that wand of Mage Armor. In the long run, consider investing in obtaining a familiar, as having one around to activate a wand of Ill Omen is a really nice way to bootstrap the effect of Irrestible Spell metamagic to your spells on the cheap. I like a Lyrakien Azata for this, thanks to its high Cha, but other options are available too. Just don't neglect your UMD skill ranks.

You seem to be building toward a blaster, but I'm unsure I'd take that tack with an Arcanist. You don't have the spells per day of a Sorcerer, so you might find yourself running out of juice. That may just be my gut talking, though, but still something to keep in mind.

Enchantment is pretty much school #1 for selecting opposition schools, and Divination is a really good school. Absolutely do not drop Illusion, as that's where all your defensive abilities are (Blur, Displacement, Mirror Image.) Necromancy is fine to drop, though not having easy access to False Life or Enervation might end up being a thing.

Hold onto your cash for scribing costs or for a +Int headband once you have the fame. Alternately, see if you don't have a Cloak of Resistance +1 on your chronicles.


Ragoz wrote:
Quote:
Yes, your character is overpowered - especially in an environment like PFS.

This character isn't even close to overpowered. As I said higher up in the thread he isn't even necessarily better than Crowe the Bloodrager pregen if they were the same level.

This character literally walks up to things and hits them. No insult meant to OP (the character has good defensive stats while still dealing damage) but this tactic isn't exactly a high tier character option and is about as tame as pathfinder gets.

^This.


Fomsie wrote:
Ryzoken wrote:


Rage is a morale bonus. Add a wand of Moment of Greatness (2 Prestige to obtain) and have the party caster activate it. Double your rage bonus each time they activate the wand.

We may have a team of three characters in my area who do this. It's amazing what a level 3 half orc will do to a scenario with 30+ strength. It's even more amazing when it's two such half orcs and their cleric 'boss'

You might want to re-look at how Moment of Greatness works.

I benefit from Rage bonus. Allied caster casts MoG. I double my morale bonus for a roll. They cast MoG again. I double my morale bonus for a roll. Repeat.

High AC critter? Boost my attack. Anything else? Boost my damage. Nasty Will Save? Boost that.


Timdog wrote:

You can get a +10 str + 8 con to both you and your pet by level 5 with the below build. So no, you aren't to strong, you just have edit: saw the GMs post, sounds like personality more so than character. Its hard to play in groups sometime people just rub other people wrong

A 2 level half orc (yes, race specific) barbarian 3 level hunter can give it’s pet and himself a total of +10 str and +8 con. By level 5 overall

How you ask?

Barbarian Level 1: Rage +4 str and con
Barbarian Level 2: Rage power: Ferocious Beast: When you rage, your companion pet does too
Hunter level 1: Give you and your companion an animal Focus. One of these is Bull , which gives +2 Str
Hunter level 3: You get a free teamwork feat which automatically works on you and your companion. Take Amplified rage feat as below:
Prerequisites: Half-orc or orc, rage class feature.
Benefit: Whenever you are raging and adjacent to a raging ally who also has this feat or flanking the same opponent as a raging ally with this feat, your morale bonuses to Strength and Constitution increase by +4. This feat does not stack with itself (you only gain this bonus from one qualifying ally, regardless of how many are adjacent to you).

Rage is a morale bonus. Add a wand of Moment of Greatness (2 Prestige to obtain) and have the party caster activate it. Double your rage bonus each time they activate the wand.

We may have a team of three characters in my area who do this. It's amazing what a level 3 half orc will do to a scenario with 30+ strength. It's even more amazing when it's two such half orcs and their cleric 'boss'


Snakebite Striker Brawler 1, Scout (insert other archetypes here) Unchained Rogue +X. Take Sap Adept and Sap Master as feats, use Rogue Talent for Ninja Trick: Style Master for Dragon Style. Add in Enforcer for free intimidates on guys you hit in the face. Charge around the battlefield dealing unarmed non lethal sneak attacks that also stack on shaken and Debilitating Injury debuffs. Can add in the Cruel enchant on an AoMF for sickened in addition to shaken.

Dishes out beats, debuffs make your party happy, and you still have rogue skill ranks in your pocket if that's your thing. Splash in UMD and you have a pretty well rounded melee combatant, who's also no slouch with a bow since you're doubtless focusing on Dex (which you use for attack and damage with your unarmed starting at 4) Takes a couple levels to get fully up to speed, but well worth the investment I'd think.


Jayder22 wrote:

edit:

Rhinarium Paste gives scent for 75gp for 1 hour. no side effects

Thank you for that one!

Now my PFS summoner can apply some of that when he activates his wand of Mage Armor on his eidolon to gain the benefits of his pheromone arrows along with said eidolon.

75 gold + 15 gold per monster to replace the (nonexistent) party bard for +2 hit and +2 damage for anything with scent? Sold.

*

Heh.
"A common housecat, jet black in color, greets you at your briefing. It appraises each of you with uncanny intelligence, before picking up a wand wrapped in a note and depositing it at <mage>'s feet. The note reads 'I would appreciate it greatly if you would use this wand of Mage Armor on myself and any who need it at opportune times.' The cat pats your foot with its paw, then performs a leaping climb up onto your backpack, where it nestles in."
-later-
"The cat hops off your bag, shifting midleap into a Dire Tiger. It then seems to chant in a series of low growls and gestures, seemingly casting a spell, followed by a spell, followed by a spell. It then paws the fighter, whose flesh thickens and toughens with the effects of barkskin. The tiger looks expectantly at the fighter, then pointedly nods toward the passageway ahead."

Sure, you won't likely be sharing the weaknesses of the foes you identify with knowledge checks (ha ha ha, like we have the skill points for anything but Knowledge Nature), but you can get pretty far with noises, body language, and gently applied paws to various objects and heads.


Krell44 wrote:

OK, more questions.

For clarification, my Alchemist is a Mindchemist who focuses on throwing bombs so I don't craft mutagens.

Can you explain why the rogue is a good splash class?

Can you explain how alchemical allocation works? And what are a couple premium potions that I should purchase to use with it. I like the idea of Extend Potion, but am not sure which potions I should use it on.

Alchemical Allocation:

You drink this extract. You then rinse with a potion, spitting its contents back into its original vial. You get full benefits of the potion without expending said potion.

Beneficial stuff: Potion of Heroism, Potion of Fly, Potion of Barkskin, Potion of (insert any spell whose duration is measured in minutes or hours and whose range is greater than personal here.)

But wait, there's more! It also works on elixirs, the likes of which tend to last 1 hour per use. Nice selections include the Honeytongue Elixir, Elixir of Swimming, Elixir of <+10 Perception whose name eludes me at the moment. It's core.>, Elixir of Darksight (Super darkvision. From the Dwarven gear section of the Advanced Race Guide)

Skip Extend Potion and get Enhance potion instead. It'll let you get better bang for your buck, and the effects of Extend Potion are easily duplicated with a 3rd level extract (Amplify Elixir)

*

1 person marked this as a favorite.
ElterAgo wrote:

But particularly, I would like for someone to be able to say something like "Hey I heard there was spear that gives a shield bonus. Which scenario is that?" and get an actual answer rather than being verbally flayed alive.

-snip-
I would like for people to not be looked down on and accused of cheating (at least in spirit), because they want to get something with the character that can use it.

This, this, a thousand times this.

Sadly, not very likely to happen.

*

blackbloodtroll wrote:

Of course, now, I fear that saying this, will come with a number of scowls, sneers, huffing, and accusations of trying to cheat.

Seriously, the pure open disgust, torch and noose shaking, that has come from discussing this, has me genuinely worried.

This whole business has left a very bad taste in my mouth, and has given me my first real disappointment, with the PFS community.

Heh. This thread and the one on taking 10 had me pretty bent out of shape too. Some days it feels like the more I read what the Pathfinder community writes, the less I want to be part of that community. Best solution I've come up with for that is: step away, breathe, repeat the mantra, and go do something I enjoy. Happily, people are a lot more polite in person, generally.

*

blackbloodtroll wrote:
In fact, with the pure vitriol, spewed by some, I am now even fearful, of having a Boon/Item be too beneficial, lest I be considered some kind of "cheater", whether or not I even knew what Boons/Items were available on the Chronicle Sheet.

My best advice there is to stop caring what they think.

To whit: I play mechanically strong characters with solid forethought to their composition and future rule component selections (feats, skills, traits, levels, ability increases, desirable items.) This results in my characters generally being ahead of the curve most tables at equal level (with some rare exceptions which delight me when I come across them.) It also means I get labeled a powergamer (or a rollplayer) and am the subject of scorn by people who believe their way of playing is superior to (or more right than) mine. I stopped caring what they think. Eventually, either they'll get over it, or I'll be ostracized entirely. I'm fine with either result. In the meantime, I get to dismiss their vitriol with the simple mantra: "Words are wind."

You should just do you. When someone gives you static about it, laugh at them, remind yourself that their opinion doesn't matter, and move on. Unless it's Paizo Administration/Venture Officers of your region. Their opinion matters insofar as it intersects with your continued participation in PFS. But the other players/forum trolls/VO's that don't oversee you specifically? They can pound sand.

*

pH unbalanced wrote:
Ryzoken wrote:
BretI wrote:

@Ryzoken Option 4, as option 1 except after playing the scenario you decide if you want to GM it and apply the chronicle to a specific character.

This allows you to hopefully get full enjoyment from the scenario while still allowing you to build a character around a unique boon.

Just as bad as Option 1, worse than Option 3. You're still potentially "wasting" a sheet, possibly two or three in the instance of scenarios like Quest for Perfection or Wonders in the Weave, the option to then GM the game in question to create a new sheet does nothing to alleviate the suck that is finishing a game to receive an effectively blank chronicle. That chronicle still gets burnt. It still sucks. I've done this, and it was nice to have ONE character that made good use of a chronicle, but the initial disappointment in receiving what is effectively a blank sheet was in no way lessened.

But you're right. I should've included Option 4 in my list despite it being worse than Option 3 and indistinguishable from Option 1 initially. Thank you for bringing that to my attention. (Sincerely. No sarcasm.)

Why is option 4 worse than option 3? I'd always GM a scenario after I've played it, given my druthers. Having experienced it as a player means I'm better at GMing it.

Case 1 (Option 4):

I sit down and play a scenario blind. I get a chronicle, which I have zero data on, on whichever character I chose to play. I then GM that scenario, getting a sheet that I apply to what could best use it. Net result: one blind sheet, one researched sheet.

Case 2 (Option 3):
I sit down and GM a scenario. I get a chronicle applied to whichever character uses it best. I then play that same scenario, with full knowledge of everything in that scenario, and chose an appropriate character for the sheet at the end. Net result: two researched sheets.

While Option 4 preserves the surprise factor in scenarios during play (valuable), it results in a less desirable chronicle sheet allocation scheme, as shown by the above case comparison.

That said, with my proposed Google Docs rewards sheet, it would become the best option, as you could then research the sheet rewards ahead of time, selecting the character you'd like those rewards on, while still having the surprises of the scenario intact.

It's also worth noting that I do respect that GMing a game you've played is more fun in general, and it's how I prefer to approach PFS. I just wish there was better information available on chronicle sheet rewards so I didn't feel penalized for so doing.

James McTeague wrote:
There's a fine difference between someone wanting technological items and someone wanting to play a character who is good with technology in a technology scenario. The latter is to be encouraged, as it benefits the play experience at the table. The former is not focused on the play experience, but on what happens afterwards.

What happens afterwards: the player actually purchases the tech items on his sheet on his tech character, letting him actually do what he wants to do instead of staring at a list of tech items that are thematically inappropriate for his wizardliest wizard who ever wizarded. The next scenario he plays, the player now has a cool ray gun on his nifty technophile, making the other players at the table go "Ha, that's awesome!" (or not, if said players are the ones who can't stomach a bit of tech in their fantasy, but that's an entirely different thread.)

*

1 person marked this as a favorite.
BretI wrote:

@Ryzoken Option 4, as option 1 except after playing the scenario you decide if you want to GM it and apply the chronicle to a specific character.

This allows you to hopefully get full enjoyment from the scenario while still allowing you to build a character around a unique boon.

Just as bad as Option 1, worse than Option 3. You're still potentially "wasting" a sheet, possibly two or three in the instance of scenarios like Quest for Perfection or Wonders in the Weave, the option to then GM the game in question to create a new sheet does nothing to alleviate the suck that is finishing a game to receive an effectively blank chronicle. That chronicle still gets burnt. It still sucks. I've done this, and it was nice to have ONE character that made good use of a chronicle, but the initial disappointment in receiving what is effectively a blank sheet was in no way lessened.

But you're right. I should've included Option 4 in my list despite it being worse than Option 3 and indistinguishable from Option 1 initially. Thank you for bringing that to my attention. (Sincerely. No sarcasm.)

*

I take it you guys haven't worked private security, lol.

As someone who has, I guarantee that if that guard on the wall is doing his job, he's taking 10. It is patently impossible for someone to be at "high alert" for an entire shift, let alone do so night after night.

*

3 people marked this as a favorite.

I really dislike the way people view "Chronicle Fishing." That someone even invented a name for it is... it makes me shake my head.

There's really only three ways to go about playing PFS with regard to chronicle boons and equipment. The first is to do your utmost to ignore any information you can obtain about the contents of chronicles, and maybe get lucky that the character you picked lines up with the rewards on the sheet. The second is to research what rewards might be out and about, and assign characters that might value that nifty reward at the end of the scenario. The third is to GM every scenario known to man, then play the stuff you GM'd, having perfect knowledge of literally everything the scenario has to offer.

To my thinking, Option 3 is the least entertaining, as there are no mysteries for you during play. You know when plot twist X is going to happen, you know who double agent Y is, and you know that secret door Z is behind that tapestry.

Option 1 isn't far behind, however, in terms of unfun. "Yay! We succeeded in our mission! Let's see what my Liberty's Edge barbarian gets! A stack of scrolls and potions, a metamagic rod, pearl of power, a weapon that's worse than his current one, and a quirky wondrous item that enhances that skill he has no ranks in. Well, maybe the boons... Dark Archive, Dark Archive, and Sovereign Court. Guess this chronicle's blank too, if only I'd played it on my Dark Archive Arcanist..." Events remarkably similar to this have literally happened to me and people I know. Which leads to...

Option 2, ultimately, is what happens not when you get someone who wants to powergame or somehow cheat the system. It's what happens when someone who's been screwed by blank chronicle after blank chronicle gets fed up and starts looking for proactive solutions to "I played this scenario on the wrong character, negatively impacting my enjoyment of the game as the chronicle sheet is devalued to the point of being worthless save for 1 XP, 2 PA, and X Gold." I am in this camp, having watched about a dozen sheets land on the 'wrong' characters early in my PFS career. Every time I saw the sheet land on a character that couldn't make effective use of it, I heard the same things: "If only I played with X." "That item would've been so cool on <name>." "I guess I can GM this so I can apply the credit to <name>." Put simply, that's disappointment. Which is about the last thing a player should be feeling at the end of a scenario, since it's likely that's what they'll remember.

With all that said, there is a genuinely valid argument against 'sniping' chronicle sheets: the issue of spoiling conflict resolution success conditions. When a chronicle says "You did X," it does inform someone how to act who has read the chronicle previously. A good solution for that would be to do the opposite of what people have been trying to do. Instead of demonizing people who research chronicle rewards, support them. A google doc of scenarios with chronicle reward information that's been sanitized of any spoiler content, for example, would do two things: it would reduce instances of challenge foreknowledge while reducing the number of instances of players coming away from a game with a sheet that might as well be blank. A win-win, so to speak.

EDIT: an example chronicle line:
Scenario # and name: [boon title] <effect>, [boon title] <effect>, ...
Gear by subtier: [list gear here]

I apologize for the lengthy post, but given that this issue is pretty important, with a lot of nuanced facets to it, it ran a little long.


Entryhazard wrote:
Ryzoken wrote:
But then, one supposes that might be why they don't want people turning into the beasties.
That is keeping an archetype essentially gimped?

"OH noes! I can't use Option X in PFS! Clearly the organizers hate Archetype Y and don't want us using it! It couldn't possibly be for any other reason but that! Curse them and their sudden but inevitable betrayal of my searing need to play Archetype Y, despite it being potentially slightly mechanically inferior* to Archetype Z!"

Don't put words in my mouth, I won't put words in yours. Deal?

*: this is up for debate.

*

I'm sensing a nasty trick for Underground Chemist Rogues to pull off. It's called Full Attacking with Slime Grenades. "Hey, that guy in the full plate? He's getting hit by X slime grenades. Each one does 2d6+Int to him, 3d6+Int to his armor."

Two weapon fighting... Haste effects... Rapid Shot... 6ish throws with the first one doing sneak attack... Pretty disgusting.

EDIT: Nin-ja!


WagnerSika wrote:
Atarlost wrote:


Lion Shamans lack huge wildshape forms, but get access to the nobility domain which has divine favor (use preferred spell to cast in non-domain slots or just prepare in higher domain slots) and magic vestment (cast once per day, possibly with an extend rod). Your wildshaping selection sucks, though. You only have two good forms

Actually there is now a huge form for Lion shamans, the warcat.

Agree on your other points.

Not in PFS, as the only legal options in the book according to the Additional Resources are the bristleboar, whisperfall vulture, and tusk blades. For warcats to be legal for Wildshape (and other polymorph effects), text akin to that under the Bestiary entries would need to be included.

Too bad, since that's a pretty nasty critter. But then, one supposes that might be why they don't want people turning into the beasties.


Wildshape functions as the Beast Shape line of spells. You therefore would not become a full on CR 13 warcat, but rather something warcat-esque as provided by Beast Shape III. In looking at the warcat, you'd get the stat boosts laid out in the spell, plus grab, rake, pounce, trample, low light vision, scent, and climb speed 20. You wouldn't get rend ever, as wildshape never expands to Beast Shape IV for some inscrutable reason.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Rynjin wrote:
Ryzoken wrote:
If you post your build we could perform an autopsy and see where things might have gone south for you.
Quote:
(Unchained Halfling Rogue Scout with Elven Curve Blade)

Enhance.

Quote:
Halfling Rogue Scout with Elven Curve

Enhance!

Quote:
Rogue Scout with Elven

Once more!

Quote:
Rogue
Good job men, we found the problem.

OBJECTION!!!

The witness clearly states the rogue involved was of the Unchained variety and thus the possibility of non suckage does exist. I move to strike the preceding remark from the record as it is prejudicial in the extreme.


If you post your build we could perform an autopsy and see where things might have gone south for you.


Cranky McDuff wrote:
Neat Ideas. I'm poking one of my players into converting his Summoner to Unchained to try it out, but he's not sure what to make of it(still pretty new player). I'll point him to your guide. Side note: Unless I missed something in this thread, I'm pretty sure Manyshot doesn't work with crossbows. Even repeating ones. I'd have to double check though and I'm going to bed. :p

You are not wrong. If you stick with the repeater, skip Manyshot. Alternatively, bracers of archery grant bow proficiency and since none of your prior feats are crossbow specific (no rapid reload, for example) you can pick them up, swap to a composite bow and grab Manyshot. Call it a minor build fork. My build intends to grab something like Improved Initiative or something in Manyshot's place.


Nagaji/Angelkin Aasimar/anything with +2 Str
Divine Hunter Paladin 2, Archaeologist Bard 2, Bloodrager 1, Dragon Disciple 7.

pre racial stat spreads:
20 pt buy: Str 16 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 10 Cha 14
25 pt buy: probably bump Cha up to 16.

Take Quick Draw early on, along with Lingering Performance (at 3) and Extra Rage (probably at 5.) Take Fate's Favored as a trait.

In combat: Activate Archaeologist's Luck for +2 to hit/dmg/saving throws/other stuff we might care about. Activate Rage. On our turn, two hand a 1h weapon (say, a longsword for ease of access) and use a free action to draw a quickdraw shield for extra AC. On our next turn, stow the quickdraw shield as a free action, 2 hand hit stuff, then draw the quickdraw shield again as a free action.

This on top of a build chassis that has higher than normal base saves due to multiclassing and +Cha +2 to saves.

Good and tanky, nice and hitty. Can even chuck javelins with good accuracy thanks to Divine Hunter giving us Precise Shot. Just gotta abide that paladin code.


voideternal wrote:
They still get the spell slots though, so they have to make do by either preparing lower level spells into the 2nd level spell slot, or metamagic-ing the lower level spells.

Preparing being entirely the wrong word notwithstanding, Void points out the single biggest, most glaring problem crossblooded sorcerers face. The -10% on Will saves is a whatever. Effectively delaying new spell accrual by an additional entire level compared to their peers means a crossblooded sorcerer is now an entire spell level behind a wizard, which is pretty much never worth the benefits crossblooded grants.

I've seen Crossblooded only ever used on characters who never increase their sorcerous casting beyond 1, such as pre FAQ mystic theurge characters dipping a level of sorc for +2 dmg per die on their wizard nukes or level 1 builds that players replace upon reaching level 2 that dump 5d4+10 burning hands spells 5 times a day.

*

BigNorseWolf wrote:

The scenario contains a monster that WILL one shot any level 1 character it hits. Once. Level 1 characters CAN"T be built with an acceptale chance of surviving that thing.

Do not run this for level 1s. Run anything else.

While I understand your point and nominally agree that a <redacted> is a terrible thing to spring on a level 1 party, there are ways to build to mitigate the threat the beastie poses. Once you accept it's a game of rocket tag, the standard principles apply: boost Init, boost offense, nuke it from orbit. Fight ranged and kite it (harder to do in enclosed spaces, but still theoretically viable as long as you can keep blocking charge lanes, possibly by ignoring the thing's minions entirely.) Win Init, focus fire it down with everything you have, and pray it's enough. Two hander Barbarians (2d6+6 or 8) and super optimized burning hands sorcerers (5d4+10, DC 17) are great ideas for taking that thing down and aren't totally worthless in the rest of the dungeon.

But yeah, I've been in a group that lost half the party to <redacted> and the <redacted> it created as it killed our teammates. It's almost as bad as the <redacted> at the end of the next level that opens the fight at elevation or the <redacted> in the level after that which is CR 8 against a party potentially composed of level 3 characters. Thornkeep: if you aren't max level for the floor, you're going to have a bad time.

*

Bear Burning Ashes wrote:
At least I got to use my Earthbreaker in a solo game of Quasit Racquetball =\

I'd feel bad about what happened to it, but that Quasit was a servitor of the Abyss so... totally deserved it.

*

Heh. All that talk of EMS reminds me of another story of a buddy of mine that he probably won't be along to share... so I'll share it for him!

I was GMing a higher tier scenario I'd played through once before on request of a friend on short notice. Party ended up nice and balanced, albeit small-ish. In they go, whacking various things and triggering other things, hilarity ensues, and then they reach the boss fight. The casters get flanked by a pair of Babau who manage to inflict a medium chunk of damage on each character in the surprise round partial charges, they extricate themselves from the flank and the melee start to work when the actual boss enters the fight.

I describe how the party hears casting from nearby, so they double down on the demons to try to finish the fight, likely thinking "Oh, they're buffing, we need to hurry before they finish their buffs." Demons are nothing if not resilient, so another round goes by, I call initiative for the boss, pause, then call initiative for the sorcerer, who was next. While he acts, I silently count off movement in my head. This round passes with the Babau nearing death and lo and behold, tis the boss's initiative again! I ask after the aquatic sorcerer's touch AC, and am met with "<number>, and I'd like to Emergency Force Sphere."

I smirk, looking at him, and go "Sure! Here's what happens. You feel a poke on the back of your knee and immediately react by encasing yourself and <Warpriest> in the Emergency Force Sphere (it's a 10x10), make a Fort save!" <sorcerer fails save> "Ooh, So, the quasit appears as its invisibility fades due to its delivering the Slay Living on you. You suffer... <50-ish> damage putting you to what?"
Sorcerer's Player: "-13."
Self: "And what's your Con score?"
Sorc: "14."
Warpriest: "Ah! I'm in the dome with him! I can heal you before you bleed out on your next initiative!"
Self: "<Sorcerer>, your turn. Stabilize?" <failed stabilization roll, needing a nat 20> "So you bleed out. <Warpriest>, your turn..."
Warpriest: "Oh, wow. It sucks I couldn't save you. Does your dome collapse? ...No? And it's hardness what? ...I can't get through that. Guess I'm full attacking the quasit..."

They pulled through, eventually the other caster dispelled the EMS, and the boss caster got taken out (the quasit got pasted after the second full attack from the warpriest.) The aquatic sorcerer paid out for a raise dead (luckily the Slay Living didn't actually kill him, else that wouldn't have worked...) and restorations and now we all have a healthier respect for Slay Living and Fort saves... Fun times!

tl;dr: Boss's quasit familiar delivered a Slay Living, triggering an Emergency Force Sphere that locked the Warpriest out of the fight, and killed the caster of said sphere so it couldn't be taken down except by damage or dispel, the former of which the Warpriest was incapable of dealing due to the dome's hardness.

*

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I'm of the opinion that it's not your job to avoid TPK's. It's the players' jobs to do that. Your job is to present the scenario/module as written to the best of your ability in the interest of everyone having fun. It's the players' jobs to design their characters and take what steps are necessary to overcome challenges set before them in the interest of having fun. It's the author's job to tune encounters to provide challenges that are appropriate and not overwhelming (unless the latter is explicitly the goal, which it feels like sometimes in Thornkeep.)

That said, I wouldn't expect something like mindless undead to perform brilliant tactical maneuvers in enclosed spaces so as to maximize attack opportunities amongst their allies while minimizing inbound damage. I also wouldn't expect mindful creatures to pound downed opponents into a bloody smear provided standing foes are near unless they have exceedingly good reason to do so. The <redacted> in Thornkeep is mindful, so it's clever enough to avoid OA's and flank with its dimmer minded minions, and making use of its innate ability is in no way poor form. It's also one of three actually dangerous encounters in the module (the others being the incorporeal foe and the jumpy bugs), one of the 'bosses' if you will.

tl;dr: Run as written. Blame the author, not the GM.


For inclusion in the guide, build stubs of the Archer Eidolon in the guide's format:

Archer Angelica Level 1
Subtype: Azata
Form: Biped
Evolutions (1): Scent
Feats: Point Blank Shot
AC: 13 (+2 natural, +1 Dex)
Attack: Longbow +2 (1d8) or Greatsword +4 (2d6+4)
Resist: electric 5

Archer Angelica Level 4
Subtype: Azata
Form: Biped
Evolutions (3):Ability Increase (Dex), Scent
Feats: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot
AC: 16 (+4 natural, +2 Dex)
Attack: Masterwork Composite (+3 Str) Longbow +6 (1d8+3) or Greatsword +6 (2d6+4)
Resist: electric 5, cold 10, fire 10
Costly equipment assumed: Masterwork Composite (+3 Str) Longbow [700 gp]

Archer Angelica Level 6
Subtype: Azata
Form: Biped
Evolutions (5): Ability Increase(Dex)x2, Scent
Feats: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot
AC: 20 (+6 natural, +4 Dex)
Attack: +1 Composite (+4 Str) Longbow +10 (1d8+5), or Rapid Shots +8/+8 (1d8+5) or Greatsword +9 (2d6+6)
Resist: electric 5, cold 10, fire 10
Costly equipment assumed: +1 Composite (+4 Str) longbow [2800 gp]

Given enough gold, the bow in the level 6 really ought to be a +1 Adaptive Composite Longbow, but I recognize it can be hard to justify an extra thousand gold in character wealth early on.

*

Leathert wrote:
Ryzoken wrote:
Leathert wrote:
This lead to the character eventually making her battleaxe Merciful, so this would never happen again.

Unless you do enough damage to wrap the nonlethal across their maxHpPool+2*con+currentHpPool. Then you kill them again.

Nonlethal damage in excess of an enemy's max hp + con score is converted to lethal damage.

Meh, huge damage potential has never been her thing. Unless she smites, and then she wouldn't be going for non-lethal anyway.

The "never again" was more about her character growth than actual mechanics anyway.

Fair enough, just pointing out that the possibility for lethality still exists, particularly with a triple damage crit weapon.

My paladin wields a sap until she can afford a merciful longsword. Carries a longsword for those foes who just have to be put down, but only ever draws it as a final resort.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
JRutterbush wrote:
Not everybody is a board-hopping, theory-crafting min-maxer

Oh, stop it. You're making me blush...

*

Leathert wrote:
This lead to the character eventually making her battleaxe Merciful, so this would never happen again.

Unless you do enough damage to wrap the nonlethal across their maxHpPool+2*con+currentHpPool. Then you kill them again.

Nonlethal damage in excess of an enemy's max hp + con score is converted to lethal damage.


*reads stuff about unchained monks and poor will save concerns* Hmm... dwarves get cool stuff for saving throws. They also get +Wis/Con and a penalty to a monk's few dump stats. I haven't made any dwarves yet, and I wanted to give the new monk a spin... Oh, and there's that Golarion specific sect of dwarven monks called the Ouat...

*looks through books* So I take Steel Soul, Glory of Old, and Honored Fist of the Society... uh huh... and a temple sword... that I could make large sized for 2d6 damage per swing at a -2 penalty... plus strength and a half... will save against spells/spell like abilities is +8 at level 1... right...

Hmm... can't afford 18 strength comfortably with starting 20 pt buy... don't like 20 land speed, but that solves itself at 3... if only I could solve both at once earlier, maybe with something like rage and fast movement. Can't take Barbarian due to lawful, but Bloodrager...

*looks over his character sheet* Yup, that's a thing.

*

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Ooh! It's not my story to share, but I doubt he'll be along so I'll share it for him.

A buddy of mine sits at a table with me and the guys and pulls his warpriest out, which he hadn't played in a while. We do our thing and come to a building we need to enter which has a dude as obvious bait for the trap of two rogues in flanking positions in the doorway. We engage from outside, tossing in toppling magic missiles and doing basic pokes at the rogues until my friend's turn comes up. At this point, one rogue is prone from a topple, the other is standing, and the bait is falling back behind a smokestick. "I walk in." The table looks at him with alarm and concern. "It's cool guys, I got this."

Gm rolls a crit threat from the guy on the ground and the other guy connects too. I look at him, eyebrow raised and a smirk on my face. He looks at his sheet and goes "Oh, wow. I thought I had a lot more hp than I do." Damage gets rolled, sneak attack applied, and then the GM notices they have a feat. Precise Strike. Cue 1d6 more damage per hit. Warpriest goes to con dead.

We still give him crap about it from time to time. Character got better thanks to the Risen vanity, was still a super entertaining "Did I seriously walk in and provoke four swings from flanking rogues on a level 3 character?" moment.


Matt2VK wrote:

Quick question -

Thought Rogues had no training with shields. So to use a Buckler would require using a Feat for shield training.

Correct?

Using a shield you're not proficient in causes you to suffer the ACP to your attack rolls. Masterwork bucklers (and magic by extension) have no ACP.

The shield proficiency feat is pretty useless for anything that isn't a tower shield or a quickdraw shield. Want a heavy shield? Make it mithril. Want a light shield or buckler? Masterwork.

*

I once played through a level of Thornkeep with a core druid that wasn't fully leveled. I'd marked the level up at the top of the sheet, bought skill points and class ability increases, then set the sheet aside to do something and forgot about it. Cue me getting my arse handed to me in the final encounter, only to realize I was missing an extra point of attack, about seven hp (that ended up being fairly critical), and other minor things.

I now look over my characters the night before a game to ensure I'm properly marked and geared.

*

Kalindlara wrote:
Ryzoken wrote:
Kalindlara wrote:
Can you give us more on that sorcerer build? I know parts of it, but 5d6+10 at first level is a little hard to swallow. :)

Crossblooded Sorcerer. Select Orc and Draconic Bloodlines. Each Bloodline Arcana adds +1 damage per damage die rolled by spell for +2/die.

Next, we need to be effective caster level 5. Start at 1, add Spell Specialization for +2 caster levels (requires Spell Focus Evocation, so we're human for the bonus feat.) Then add Gifted Adept for +1. I don't recall offhand where the fifth caster level comes from, it might be Varisian Tattoo off of the Tattooed Sorcerer archetype, it might be something else. There's options. Could make it worse by adding an Alchemist Fire as an optional material component so that one enemy that fails their save catches fire as well, but generally the 5d6+10 is enough to make things disappear so the catching on fire is pretty much overkill.

I knew most of those. But, thank you anyway. :)

How is he increasing the die type, though? I don't know of anything that does that...

Oh, blerg. Brain fart. 5d4+10. It's a rather moot point since not much survives the 15 minimum damage. Half the time he doesn't need to bother rolling damage, it's only when stuff saves that he needs to.

*

Raymond Lambert wrote:
I am still still confused on how an pouncing Eidolon at level 1 gets + 5 on damage rolls?

Str 16 + Power Attack, if I had to hazard a guess.

Specifically, it starts as Quad, takes Ability Increase(Str) to hit that magic number 16, takes Power Attack for its level 1 feat. Eats up exactly 3 Evo points, 2 for +Str, 1 for Pounce.

*

Kalindlara wrote:
Can you give us more on that sorcerer build? I know parts of it, but 5d6+10 at first level is a little hard to swallow. :)

Crossblooded Sorcerer. Select Orc and Draconic Bloodlines. Each Bloodline Arcana adds +1 damage per damage die rolled by spell for +2/die.

Next, we need to be effective caster level 5. Start at 1, add Spell Specialization for +2 caster levels (requires Spell Focus Evocation, so we're human for the bonus feat.) Then add Gifted Adept for +1. I don't recall offhand where the fifth caster level comes from, it might be Varisian Tattoo off of the Tattooed Sorcerer archetype, it might be something else. There's options. Could make it worse by adding an Alchemist Fire as an optional material component so that one enemy that fails their save catches fire as well, but generally the 5d6+10 is enough to make things disappear so the catching on fire is pretty much overkill.

*

wakedown wrote:
Jeff Merola wrote:
... make what the Summoner can do look like a toddler swinging a stick around playing make-believe.

Depends on the context.

If you have a PFS game sitting down a bunch of players with 0xp and 0pp and there's a wizard and an APG summoner (built correctly) at the table...

The wizard, regardless of the mastery of the build, looks fairly medoicre. His best schtick is maybe Color Spray which could be fairly limited in value in an undead-heavy scenario.

The 0xp Summoner can almost hang with the 0xp wizard. They both can cast a fairly high DC Grease (arguably one of the most useful things to do at 0xp). They can both cast Daze or Acid Splash to their heart's content. The wizard maybe has one extra spell over the summoner - a mediocre damage spell (suped up burning hands for 3d4)? Sleep?

On top of being comparable as 0xp casters, the 0xp Summoner can parade out a basic pouncing eidolon, who has darkvision, Power Attack and can charge for +5/+5/+5 1d6+5/1d4+5/1d4+5.

Ultimately, that's what makes other plays go "huhhhh?" when they are playing a barbarian, paladin, fighter or whatever. The 0xp, 18-Str melee paladin, Power Attacking while smiting is swinging for 2d6+10 and still can't match the eidolon's damage output.

Ultimately, this is why pounce should've never been available at level 1 for 1 evolution point, but should've come online at level 7 when a druid's animal companion is allowed to pounce. I'd still lobby for Paizo to errata the APG pounce evolution to require level 7, because then it's likely a lot of the people complaining about the UC summoner vs APG summoner would see them as more comparable at levels 1-6.

My buddy's level 1 powerhouse caster is a Sorcerer with burning hands that lands for 5d6+10, 5 times a day. Suck it, Eidolon.

That said, yes, pounce is a potent force multiplier that shouldn't probably see play before level 7 or so. Though, with decently designed encounters the impact of a pouncer would be mitigated somewhat. Sure, a single target boss fight gets eaten by the thing with pounce, but that was happening anyway due to the action economy of the encounter. A multiple enemy fight where the targets are spread out means the pouncer only ends up killing one target a turn, letting others in the group shine as well.

In any case, for PFS at least, the point is rather moot. Unchained Eidolons are locked out of pounce til level 7, enabling other designs to shine (like my personal favorite: the archer eidolon.)

1 to 50 of 404 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | next > last >>

©2002–2015 Paizo Inc.®. Need help? Email customer.service@paizo.com or call 425-250-0800 during our business hours: Monday–Friday, 10 AM–5 PM Pacific Time. View our privacy policy. Paizo Inc., Paizo, the Paizo golem logo, Pathfinder, the Pathfinder logo, Pathfinder Society, GameMastery, and Planet Stories are registered trademarks of Paizo Inc., and Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Pathfinder Adventure Path, Pathfinder Adventure Card Game, Pathfinder Player Companion, Pathfinder Modules, Pathfinder Tales, Pathfinder Battles, Pathfinder Online, PaizoCon, RPG Superstar, The Golem's Got It, Titanic Games, the Titanic logo, and the Planet Stories planet logo are trademarks of Paizo Inc. Dungeons & Dragons, Dragon, Dungeon, and Polyhedron are registered trademarks of Wizards of the Coast, Inc., a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc., and have been used by Paizo Inc. under license. Most product names are trademarks owned or used under license by the companies that publish those products; use of such names without mention of trademark status should not be construed as a challenge to such status.