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659 posts. Alias of Ryzouken.


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I am forbidden from running any scenario in which Clockwork Soldier appear in any number.

I am likewise forbidden from running the first floor of Thornkeep, after the multiple near TPKs recorded.

I am prohibited from claiming that my bard with a southern twang accent hails from the little town of Mercy.

That bard is also not permitted to launch into spirited renditions of "Friends in Low Places" after entering subterranean locales.

It has been observed that I may have an addiction to Lyrakien Azata and thus may not select them for Improved Familiars more than 1 in every 3 eligible characters (down from 100% of eligible characters)

I am no longer permitted to Kinetic Blast unidentified corpses to check if they're really dead.

My Shelynite alchemist may not shoot random NPCs with dye arrows in an attempt at creating art.

My Shelynite alchemist may not shoot NPCs with dye arrows for the purpose of tracking migration patterns of <social class>

My Shelynite alchemist may not shoot NPCs with dye arrows in an attempt at making them prettier.

My Shelynite alchemist may not shoot NPCs with dye arrows barring specific tactical uses to be enumerated at time of briefing.

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Tamec wrote:
Jared Thaler wrote:

Try the sacramento PFS facebook group possibly?

I know last year a bunch of people drove from Sacramento to Paizo con, in two cars, with everyone but the driver playing PFS the whole way up. They called it Caravan-con

That sounds like fun for everyone, but being the driver (while it's understood for safety purposes) would "suck" to hear an adventure you can't play.

We made sure to make it an entertaining session to listen to. Kind of like a live, interactive podcast.

For those curious, we played 02-25 You Only Die Twice, with two players in one car, the GM and remaining player in the other, with a walkie talkie app on our phones, if memory serves. No minis or map, just theatre of the mind style RP. For dice rolls, we either used electronic rollers or dice trays.

More to the original topic: Google Maps suggests it should take 30 hours to drive (at highway speed) from Sacramento to Indianapolis. A flight takes about 5 hours. I know which I'd choose.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
I'm Hiding In Your Closet wrote:

Let us be clear: When people speak of "power gaming" (not a term I care to use myself, but be that as it may), I assure you, THIS is NOT IT. This is what "power gamers" WISH they could do...and then they'd probably scuttle the whole deal by insisting that their "OBJECTIVE maths PROVE that so-and-so is unoptimized and will NEVER work and my Supreme Tank Build(C) is OBJECTIVELY SUPERIOR to this yadayada...."

"People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.”
- Chinese Proverb

Was that really necessary? Way to bring a thread about awesome down with petty politics...

I have a buddy who's been trying to do something similar using animated objects or something in PFS. Not sure how far off the ground he's gotten it, but he had a build he showed me once or twice... Minus the ferrets, of course.

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Expect table variation

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Core Rulebook Magic Chapter under Aiming a Spell and Line of Effect

Edit: you needn't have loe to all parts of the Spread, but you need loe to the center and the parts need a clear path. So if you center your tentacles outside of a dome placed on level ground, I don't think you'd be able to declare the spread would reach inside as there wouldn't be a path.

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Lorewalker wrote:
andreww wrote:
Black Tentacles is a spread, it goes round corners but it doesn't go through walls. I wouldn't have tentacles appear on the other side of a dungeon wall, I wouldn't have them appear inside an EFS, both block line of effect.
Ah, but that is only if the ground is level enough that the seal is water tight. If it is not there is no reason why a black tentacles or cloud kill can not seep in under the cracks.

The minimum size of an aperture to permit line of effect is 1 square foot.

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Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:

So basically, we should ban anything that lets casters get out of a certain doom situation for them?

So going with this theme, the next items to be banned should be Boots of Escape. And the Freedom of Movement spell. You know the one thing that will save a caster's butt when he's grabbed by a monster with a CMD in the upper 40's or 50's... After all the monster isn't going to get any benefit from this?

And Liberating Command and Mirror Image and Dimension Door and the teleportation subschool and the withdraw action and...

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Kevin Willis wrote:
So - and this is NOT a rhetorical question - have you ever had a character who started the adventure with at least one emergency force sphere available die?

I have! Prismatic Spray Traps suck when you don't know its coming.

She was high enough level that she got better, but I absolutely looked at the two EFS castings on my spell list and went 'welp.'

It is quite puzzling to me why people keep clamoring for defensive options to be banned. These things are not removing enemies from the board, nor sequence breaking scenarios, nor invalidating entire combats. All they do is keep characters alive. Makes no sense.

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Please do not implement 'Easy Mode.'


I've a Chaokineticist in a home game I'm considering porting to PFS who is very much patterned off of a sith. Kinetic Blade/Whip is my lightsaber. He tends to tromp around in a black shroud and I can't wait for him to reach Suffocate for force choke fun.

Probably should've multi element specced into Air for electricity blasts for force lightning too... hmmm... maybe I'll do that when I get around to porting him over.

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Dorothy Lindman wrote:
5) At higher levels, keep a scroll of Breath of Life on hand. Pass it to someone who has a chance of casting it and ask them to use it on you if you go down. (I usually tell them to use it on anyone in the party who needs it, in line with suggestion #2.)

The action economy involved in this precludes it functioning in a majority of situations. Move to draw scroll, Standard to activate, touch range. Suggest instead using First Aid Gloves if you're in possession of a copy of the Pathfinder Society Primer

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Thomas Hutchins wrote:
TOZ wrote:
If your team isn't from the Jenkins clan, then they let the enemy come to them so the enemy is moving and swinging once. (Possibly into a readied attack from you, since you are standing between them and the squishies.)
But then the rogue running in is yelling at you for not providing flanking :P

This is what we call a self correcting problem.

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Emotional Aura: single use boon, grants one effect of a number ranging from spell effects to skill bonuses to a possible +2 to save vs a divine spell you cast. Spell effects include Sanctuary and Rage. There are six possible auras to select from.

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BigNorseWolf wrote:
The dex to hit would be nice, but they don't get it to damage do they? (not that familiar with kineticists) Gunslingers effectively get a better bonus to hit from targeting touch AC.

Dex for hit, Con or 1/2 Con for damage. The usual wisdom is that Kineticists need every inch of to hit they can leverage, which a tiny +Dex Wild Shape would be quite beneficial for.

As for gathering and aiming, songbird has legs or wings, dealer's choice, of prehensile appendages in theory. Shouldn't be a problem.

I should snag one of these rings for my home game kineticist...

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Around these parts, that build uses Burning Hands instead for 5d4+5 fire damage. Actually, they generally go Cross Blooded adding in Draconic and sling 5d4+10 instead. Don't remember quite what they do to manage the lost caster level from tattooed sorcerer (which IIRC doesn't stack properly with Cross Blooded) 5 flamethrower shots a day that make entire formations just disappear, save or not, plus Disrupt Undead and Acid Splash as cantrips for 'easy' fights.

I've toyed with a Snowball caster doing similar, but the -8 to hit (cover+melee) makes it very difficult to leverage properly.

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Markov Spiked Chain wrote:
Are people just playing assuming it starts full?

Yes. Or, more accurately: we assume the Kineticist fills it before he goes to sleep the night before, since it's exceptionally rare that a Kineticist ends a day burned out and thus can usually afford the 1-2 burn to fill said buffer.

Frankly, it isn't really that unreasonable an assumption.

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I was also pretty bummed when I saw the monster tactician was banned. It seemed like a really fun design. If it was banned due to the expanded summon list, it wouldn't be hard to add a clause in the AR that said they simply don't gain that benefit from the class ability.


Extended range becomes desirable when you get empower metakinesis. When that happens, you suddenly no longer want to move (so as to gather power), making 120 feet of range a godsend.

Take Precise Shot at 3, leave weapon finesse til level 5 or 7.

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RainyDayNinja wrote:
It's listed on page 30-31 of the Guide to Organized Play. You reduce it to 1398 gold.

Or 1.5 exp, 2 PA, 699 gold for slow track.

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Have:
Vishkanya
Emotional Aura
Psychic Dilettante
Mendevian Weapon Training
Custom Order

Want:
any race boon other than Ifrit, Sylph, Tiefling and aforementioned Vishkanya
Total rebuild boon

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Ok, I've been seeing a lot of interest in the Vishkanya boon and I have to ask: why? What am I missing?


You have four stats of varying usefulness consider dumping Cha and taking penalties in two of the other three and get that Dex to 18. Hitting is the single largest consideration for a kineticist

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Play all of Thornkeep at half speed, matching each level of it with a level of ES you can switch to slow speed to match.
So level 1 PCs would do Thornkeep and ES 1 both at slow speed, leveling to 2.

But I suggest not doing that and instead just going straight through ES. Keep the Thornkeep chronicles for characters who are going to see more of the world than green hallway after green hallway.


Serisan wrote:
Accomplished Sneak Attacker would be the name of that feat.

heh. My ninja edit appears to not have been quite fast enough. Yes, Accomplished Sneak Attacker. Excellent feat for meeting SA prerequisites.


It is possible to hit 2d6 SA off of only one level of a rogue class at the cost of a feat. Accomplished Sneak Attacker, I think the feat is called, from the Dirty Tactics Toolbox. This means the absolute earliest entry is Rog 1 Wiz 3. Feel free to substitute any SA granting class for Rog. The usual conundrum is Snakebite Striker Brawler for +1 BAB or Unchained Rogue for best sneak attack (concealment doesn't kill your SA) and free weapon finesse.


Kazaan wrote:
Fortuitous basically gives you an "iterative" on your AoO; a second attack at -5.

Oooh. Two weapon combat trick/fighter archetype with a pair of fortuitous weapons, possibly with a level of swashbuckler to Opportune Parry and Riposte. You attack me, I parry and swing back four times.


dragonhunterq wrote:
additional resources wrote:
Hex channeler, mutation warrior, and primal companion hunter are now legal for play.
mutation warrior is legal.

So it is. I stopped reading after the first sentence and didn't see the refractory clause in the next sentence.

Carry on.


Was no one going to mention that Mutation Warrior is barred due to Additional Resources?


Is Solo Maneuvers a prerequisite for something? Cause it's pretty bad if not in that it forces you to into a dangerous tactical situation for minuscule gain. That it is also blocking a strictly better archetype for you is particularly damning as well.

Is it not fairly well established that, barring crazy optimization in a single maneuver bonus, focusing on combat maneuvers is asking for trouble later on? Don't get me wrong, a well timed maneuver has been clutch a few times in my fairly short PFS career, but I see CMD scale so quickly compared to CMB as you level and that your chosen maneuver may only be useable half of the time give or take? You're investing a lot in something with a high rate of failure and a low rate of applicability.

Reconsider Makeshift Scrapper. It sidesteps the refine weapon issue and fits pretty well into your build barring its clashing with Swashbuckler.


Kaboogy wrote:
But then it still counts as improvised, so it's 3 below Rough and Ready.

Except Catch Off Guard, gained by the Humble Beginnings trait, removes that penalty, at least for the frying pan, and thus surprise weapon is better. For other kitchen implements, I recommend just taking the feat instead of humble beginnings, but if you want to specialize in the pan the trait is ok.

There's a rogue archetype (makeshift scrapper) in one of the soft cover splats, melee tactics toolbox maybe? It lets you make your skillet magic for when you need it for penning DR/hitting incorporeal without having to argue the grey area of improvised weapons in general. Might be worth looking at. I know you're set up as a slayer, but the archetype patches the incorporeal targets issue very neatly.

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Nefreet wrote:
Ryzoken wrote:
But there's only one person I trust implicitly and absolutely and she doesn't play PFS.
I was going to guess your wife, but she's sat down with a couple Pregens before... so... your kitten?

Have you seen that beast?! She's as like to scar me as to cuddle me! Don't get me wrong, I love her, but trust? Not if I want to escape with my skin intact!

And don't get me started about the kitten! *rimshot*

I don't consider her sitting in on two games held in our own home with a pregen to make table/not be bored contribution to PFS in general. I mean, she's got a number, and she's earned three chronicles, but the interest just isn't there, which is totally fine.

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Fromper wrote:
And for the record, I'm considered "soft" as a GM, because I will usually rule in the players' favor and let them get away with borderline stuff, especially when it's life or death. When I roll out in the open, and somebody dies, everyone knows I was completely fair about it. But I've also only killed 2 PCs in 70ish sessions of GMing PFS.

Fascinating... I have the opposite reputation. Characters die in my games fairly regularly, despite my running things as fair as I can figure. I don't unilaterally rule on the side of the players, but I do try to make rulings fairly and consistently. I've nearly TPKed a table or two, and have permadeaded a low level character or five (Thornkeep and Emerald Spire are harsh mistresses) in addition to a swath of 'temporary' kills. It's significant enough a trend that I've taken to warning players that my tables can be bloody as part of my opening spiel, which doesn't always help...

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"Failure is always an option."

Given that, I have a hard time fudging things one way or the other. I'm not going to force failure on the players by way of fudging, it's dishonest and unnecessary. I'm also not going to mitigate players' failure because if I do, there's not much point in playing in the first place. If it's guaranteed that the players are going to win, one might as well just leave the dice at home and narrate the scenario for them.

There is an exception to this, which is -1's. If a player shows up with their -1 with only a handful of chronicles, I'm probably going to take poor tactical decisions instead of reasonable or strong ones. The dice will still end up the way they land, but maybe the enemies don't take flanks or focus fire or use their special things. Cause you just shouldn't frag new players' characters. But once they've hit six chronicle sheets, I present them with the same challenge I'd present anyone: those contained in the scenario, run to the best of my ability. If they can't overcome those challenges, they don't earn the rewards offered for so doing.

Yes, it's important to tell a story. But the heroes don't always win in stories, and there's an entire genre where the hero always dies in the end. What story are we putting together over the course of a PFS session? That's up to the dice and the players, otherwise they aren't playing a game, they're listening to a guy tell a story.

Do I trust the other people at my table? To a degree, I have to. But there's only one person I trust implicitly and absolutely and she doesn't play PFS.


Ryan Freire wrote:
Ryzoken wrote:
hiiamtom wrote:
Ryan Freire wrote:
I'd list move 20 as a bit bigger issue for small fighters than the 2-3 damage per hit they lose for small size and str penalty.
I have never, ever had movement come up as a significant handicap to any character except for the rare corner case of a chase where any class with fly basically has the upper hand anyways.

I, on the other hand, have personally witnessed a 20 foot land speed character utterly fail to reach combat on numerous occasions, including one instance where a gnoll with a short bow was able to kite him for four turns and would've continued had I not intervened with my long bow.

I will never play a 20 speed character.

Its exceptionally fun when there's a swathe of difficult terrain between you and the person pecking at you from range.

They're *usually* smart enough to pack a pot or two of featherstep. Usually...

But yes. "Fun."


hiiamtom wrote:
Ryan Freire wrote:
I'd list move 20 as a bit bigger issue for small fighters than the 2-3 damage per hit they lose for small size and str penalty.
I have never, ever had movement come up as a significant handicap to any character except for the rare corner case of a chase where any class with fly basically has the upper hand anyways.

I, on the other hand, have personally witnessed a 20 foot land speed character utterly fail to reach combat on numerous occasions, including one instance where a gnoll with a short bow was able to kite him for four turns and would've continued had I not intervened with my long bow.

I will never play a 20 speed character.


Switch to Tiny Hut. It's only foiled by the enemy getting too close, you relocating, or true seeing.

Otherwise, get yourself some hide in plain sight, possibly by way of Hellcat Stealth.

Or blind enemies with Glitterdust instead of using illusions to hide. If they're high will save characters, use Burst of Radiance instead.

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Nefreet wrote:
Oh, and "RAW" people: Players who know the intent behind a game mechanic but abuse it anyways because of an overly literal parsing of the text. This category I've encountered less in person and more online, but I know of one repeat offender in my local area, too.

Is it me? It's me isn't it? It's probably me...

Or is it? Maybe it's [redacted] or [redacted]... Hmmm...

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Question: did the player attempt skill checks out of combat?

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The level of badwrongfun in this thread makes me sad.

Send the player to Sacramento, we'd love to have her as is.


Decent options for meta magic include:
Quicken as referenced above
Persistent spell is two spell levels and forces the enemy to roll twice and select lower on saving throw
Piercing spell is one spell level for +5 to beat SR.

Note: any meta magic other than Quicken will increase your spell's casting time because you are a spontaneous spell caster. There's ways to mitigate this to a degree, the most efficient being the Arcane bloodline (which I understand is not an option but is included here for completeness) and spontaneous metafocus (a feat) if you focus on boosting a single spell with meta magic. It can be worthwhile to take the full round cast on something like a persistent glitterdust, but it is a drawback for being able to apply meta magic to your spells "on the fly".

Handy example: normally Glitterdust is a standard action cast, 2nd level spell. Our plucky 14th level sorceress decides to blind some bad guys, and reaches for Glitterdust, but knows the bad guys are packing some decent Will saves. Still, she really needs those guys blind, so she opts to slam out a persistent Glitterdust as a full round action consuming a 4th level spell slot. The DC is calculated as the base spell, at spell level 2, for a total of 12+stat+relevant esoteric mods, with the caveat that those affected need to roll twice and select the lower die.

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Michael Hallet wrote:
Jack Brown wrote:


Or at least should be able to do. At least at this tier you haven't invited 75-100 hours of playing the guy (not to mention planning, leveling, etc)
Tell that to the person who just lost his first boon race PC to a x3 crit at level 1 or 2. Can't just roll up another one.

A clever or savvy player might GM their special boon PC through level 1 and possibly 2 so as to amass enough resources to bounce back if the worst happens. Or they might decide the risk is worth the extra games played as that race.

Unrelated from upthread: I knew it was me! My legend continues...


Kitty In A Fishbowl wrote:


Quicken Spell is metamagic, right? I don't use metamagic (because i really can't understand how it works, with slot changing O.O seem hard to learn!).
If with a Rod/Wand i could get the effect without the slot changing is ok to use something like that.

At higher levels, not having Quicken Spell really shoots your action economy in the foot. Given that, let's see if we can't just do a quickened metamagic explanation.

Quicken Spell is a +4 spell slot adjustment. Remember this, it's important.

You're a level 14 sorceress. Go you. You've got access to spells of up to 7th level. Random encounter pops up and it's your turn. You toss out a cone of cold, cause blasting is your thing. Simple enough, you scratch off a spell slot of the appropriate level, apply your spell effect, roll some dice and drat if the thing is still standing. You could deal with it next round or hope the party drops it before it eats your face, but you recall you picked up Quicken Spell because we recommended it. You've got fireball as a 3rd level spell known and still have 7th level spell slots, so you scratch a 7th level slot and drop a quickened fireball. 10d6, right in the monster's face, no waiting, but the save dc is still calculated as the base spell level, or 13+stat+esoteric mods.

Next fight, again you cone of Cold but it's still standing and this time it's fire immune. You have mirror image as a known 2nd level spell, and dimension door as a known 4th level. We can't quicken the dimension door because it would take an 8th level spell slot, so instead we go with the quickened mirror image, scratching a 6th level spell slot

Helpful examples?

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Jared Thaler wrote:
We do have one GM out here whose dice just hate the party. I have watched him roll 3 20s in the first round of the first combat with x4 weapons. At some point, there is just nothing you can do.

Is it me? It's me isn't it? It's probably me... I think I remember the exact occasion this one happened.

I've been the GM for a couple TPFs. Party that got half gold, 0 PA, and a negative boon due to a couple decisions that came back to haunt them... different party that got taken apart (and I do mean apart) by flying breath weapon fiends because only one of them had picked up a back up bow other than the kineticist... TPK to a pair of clockwork soldiers in the 6-7 tier because my dice were hot and the bloatmage was the first one to die due to a crit...

Bad saves will mess you up pretty good, but having a decent band-aid (cleric/oracle) in your back pocket can generally set you right. Bad party comp or bad decisions will utterly wreck you. Then there's the random times where the dice just plain aren't your friend, but thankfully that's pretty rare.

I've personally only ever had 3 PC deaths and they got better each time. Once to a creature that should not have been in that module, once to a poor spell selection by the party caster that chained multiple fights that we miraculously defeated (though not without my druid getting thumped by a frost giant), and once recently to an out of the blue prismatic spray that nuked half the party and killed my plucky magus and her pet mongoose. Poor mongoose...


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*begins to type about 8k gold differential, why a difference in primary stat should exist between the fighter and kineticist(because kineticists will generally have more Con than Fighters have Str due to not spending on weapon and due to the Elemental Overflow mechanic), alternate options for the kineticist to explore that the Fighter simply doesn't have some of which improve damage, then stops.*

Listen, we can all go back and forth, escalating the kineticist and fighter in attempts at each proving our position, or we can just accept that the two are in the same ballpark depending on the level of optimization used. One path ends up with us spending hours arguing over stupid minutiae on an internet message board, the other involves us going and doing something fun or productive. I know which I'm choosing.


Blackwaltzomega wrote:
A variance of 18 to 28 damage with multiple hits is more desirable than a variance of 6 to 26 on one.

While true, I think we can eke a bit more out of the kineticist.

We've got a 4d6+8 physical blast, so we're 7th level with 18 Con. That means we have Elemental Overflow +2, so at the cost of 21 points (3 burn) of nonhealable nonlethal damage (I like to think of it as my Feign Death zone), we get 4 more damage and a +2 size bonus boost to our Con and Dex. Now we're at 4d6+13, which is nifty. We could Maximize, but that just raises our floor and average without meaningfully affecting our ceiling, let's instead choose to Empower.

4d6+13 Empowered works out to 25 minimum, 55 maximum, with an average of 40.
Compare to our prior two hander martial who's batting for 2d6+16 across two hits, 34 minimum, 56 maximum, with an average of 46.

So our comparative delta minimum is 9 points, our delta average is 6, and our delta maximum is 1, without taking into account to hit values.

That's actually fairly competitive, I think.


Blackwaltzomega wrote:
Compared to say, the Kineticist with 18 CON doing a 4d6+8 physical blast or a 4d6+2 energy blast. If your cold ray, for example, hits maximized, you are doing 18 damage.

4d6+2 maximized = 26, not 18?

I mean, I generally agree with your stance (I find dpr to be reliant on the level breaks involved, with the note that equipment greatly favors the fighty type over the kineticist as there just simply isn't much available to the kineticist), but your math was a touch off there.

Also: Chainsaws are awesome and should be encouraged at every table. I really want to have a summoning focused character summon up something like a Hound Archon and hand a chainsaw with relevant proficiency granting ioun stone off to it with the instruction "Evil doers are over there, go have fun with it."

This message sponsored by the Chainsaws for Hound Archons Committee of 2016.

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trollbill wrote:
GM Lamplighter wrote:
andreww wrote:
Except that (...)
I was referring to all the folks who were telling us it's a dumb or bad rule, and we shouldn't be enforcing it.
Woot! Chaotic vs. Lawful!

Alignment thread! Everybody drink?

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trollbill wrote:
though I would prefer no electronic dice rollers.

[joke]You absolute monster![/joke]


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Yes.

Untyped bonuses stack unless from the same source.

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Yknow, I was just thinking I'd like to shore up that Will save...
Weapon Focus as a bonus feat, fast buffs from fervor, another bonus feat at 3... If it didn't drop a BAB it'd be perfect, not that the BAB drop is a huge deal...

But I still need Clustered Shots. Sigh...

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