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Chris Lambertz wrote:
By "Hell's Rebels" do you mean the players guide for "Hell's Vengeance" really?
This looks great! I wanted to play me some Way of the Wicked as a player but couldn't find anyone to run it near me sadly, so I ran it myself for a year. We got into Book 2 and had a blast but the group fizzled just before we got into the real fun stuff in book too. Tis a shame.
Anywho, if any of you guys/gals plan to run this over the internet like with Fantasy grounds 2 or similar, and are looking for players let me know! I'd love to get in on this. :D
If so you can reach me at rye oo kin @ hotm ail . com (just remove the spaces).
Note: I've dm'd an evil campaign and know how to play them constructively (read LE and the party works together, not trying to kill each other etc). As a player I look to contribute to the groups collective enjoyment of a game, not to take from it. As for character types, I kind of prefer the smart evil genius type. Hmm, maybe I could bring along my WotW character concept (the character I never got to play). I can dream anyway.. can't I? ;)
"All hail Asmodeus!" >:)
Question would you allow a caster to layer Resist Energy on a PC more then once to protect from multiple energy types?
Hey Thanks for the reply Kevin. :)
You just gave it to them all eh? That's pretty powerful and while I think I am running an admittedly high powered WotW game myself I'm scared of following in your footsteps here for my players as they'd be even more unstoppable then they are now lol (my players aren't being very sneaky.. but they work together in combat very well). Note: for my game I am not using the XP progression chart. Instead I'm leveling my players up at the appropriate time. I feel this way has less bookkeeping for all parties.
I appreciate your suggestions about the devil-bound but I don't really want to add anything that could make the player loose their character the way things are in my game at the moment. Hmm.. my group will be arriving at Aldencross this Saturday.
What are your thoughts on the following..:
if one of them goes this route prior to finishing the Balentyne act, the stipulations by their "devil-bound" or "parton (half fiend feat)" could be to make sure they not only slay the paladin commander but also bring the commander's head to Thorn as a 'trophy/gift' for the "glory of asmodeus".
I'm thinking that showing the head of his brother might unsettle Thorn although he certainly would try to hide it. Should they catch it, this would get the pcs thinking. The idea behind this act by the devil-bound or "patron" could be a move to expose Thorn's weakness, to unsettle him (as the devil bound or patron could be in competition with Nerbus). This being one step in a plot to destabilize him (which might work I think as later on Thorn goes paranoid bat s&!@ crazy).
PS- Kevin I'm curious how you played it, if all your players have SR do you make them roll SR when they cast beneficial spells on each other (as it takes a standard action each round to turn it off which is not really doable in combat) or only apply SR when they are hit with harmful spells?
Axial good idea! Hmm.. only issue I see is that "The contract presentation should be a truly Faustian situation, and the deal should have pitfalls and unforeseen consequences. A contract with a devil can be a great role playing opportunity for the players and a fine way to introduce new adventure plots into the campaign." Well.. I can see how a devil would screw over a character if they were in a normal campaign but in this campaign setting where they are working for the king of the 9 hells, wouldn't those devils just ask the pcs to do things they already more or less plan to do anyway in the campaign?
Anyone got any ideas on how this could be worked into WotW so the contracts aren't just trivial?
Also, those templates are pretty powerful. However their most powerful is similar to the half fiend template. I'd say they're roughly the same power wise (at higher levels anyway).
Speaking of the half fiend template I was working on allowing it to my players in stages requiring feats, gold and a service (the idea being that the feats+gold pay for the extra LA while the service is RP flavor). For any of those interested here's what I wrote up for my group for acquiring the half fiend template (Note: your thoughts, comments, critiques welcome):
Half fiend template progression:
"Half-fiends are creatures heavily tainted with demonic, infernal, or other evil power." -SRD
Becoming a Demon:
This is a process that occurs over 3 stages (each stage requiring a feat, service preformed and GP offering):
How one gains the Half fiend template:
1st While you 'may' have heard about dark magic that gives one the powers of the infernal. However you need to find out HOW to become one. You won't know how to do this at start.
Note: You better be very careful with whom you petition asking for said power from as
Once one learns how this process can be started in game, the following is what you will
Third (and final) Ritual:
Gains: Gains the rest of the "Half-fiend" template.
Truth be told I like the devil bound template idea too.. Hmm.. perhaps I could use my same 3 feat tiers (listed above) where each feat allows a +1 higher cr devil to be 'contracted' with to make devil bound work for my pcs. I'm going to mill over how I could work this in with my pcs but keep it relatively balanced.
Damon Griffin wrote:
Well that's interesting.. Simple is generally better too. I'll look at that and ponder any issues it might cause.
Thanks for your comments/suggestions Ryic!
I've fixed the grammar mistakes (although I can't fix it in the post above as you can't edit your posts here if they're over an hour old so see below).
I thought about it and if the pcs slay a large+ creature and get its loot, I like the idea that they can actually use what they get. I think they will too. I'll look to see if this messes with their WPL, and if it does I'll make adjustments. As such I think I'll be not using a material component here either, well other then the excess of the weapon or armor that is being consumed.
Other then that you brought to light some things I needed to clear up to plug holes for potential abuse. As such I made the following changes:
School transmutation; Level sorcerer/wizard 1
This spell when cast on a weapon or suit of armor causes it to shrink by one size category permanently. The weapon or armor so affected is considered this new size for all intents and purposes hence forth. Both magic or mundane weapons and armor can be sized down this way. However this spell can only be cast on armor or weapons that are unattended otherwise the spell fails (intelligent weapons or armor are considered *attended* unless they are willing which is unlikely). This spell fails to effect artifacts, improvised weapons, and improvised armor.
Note: This spell can not reduce weapons and or armor below the size 'Fine' and the excess material of the weapon or armor that is being shrunk is consumed in the casting of this spell.
I was hoping I'd find a spell that would allow one to shrink down weapons and armor by one step but had no luck finding such a spell so I went to draft one up. This would be very helpful for the two players in my campaign that are running small characters (and most people are med size in my campaign).
The idea of the spell would be that they could enable med weapons/armor to be used by them penalty free as it would shrink them down a step.
As such, what do you think about the following spell?
This spell when cast on a weapon or suit of armor causes it to shrink by one size category permanently. The weapon or armor so effected is considered this new size for all intensive purposes from now on. Additionally magic weapons and armor can be sized down this way. However this spell can only be cast on armor or weapons that are unattended otherwise the spell fails (note intelligent weapons or armor are considered *attended* unless they are willing which is unlikely). This spell fails to effect artifacts.
Note: The excess material of the weapon or armor that is being shrunk is consumed in the casting of this spell.
For example lets say:
If this is correct then I see it could get a bit messy if you have two guys that just keep making AOO chains on each other but since most don't have combat reflexes and thusly only have one AOO a round, its not too bad.
Vampire feats/disguise self question for Gary and DM's here. Once a character takes them and becomes a vampire (and has his/her type change to undead) effectively "disguise self" won't allow them to blend in with the populace any longer (as they could no longer disguise themselves as humanoids).
This seems like an oversight as even a pathfinder vampire monster has the spell disguise self known. How would you react to/handle this?
A) Make an exception and allow one to also disguise self as a humanoid even if ones type was undead?
B) Have the player now rely on disguise kits?
That is, taken from the srd:
Bit of Luck (Sp): You can touch a willing creature as a standard action, giving it a bit of luck. For the next round, any time the target rolls a d20, he may roll twice and take the more favorable result. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.
It doesn't say this only works for ONE roll. It implies it would work for any and all rolls for that round. Soo.. if say a character had 4 attacks that round they got to use 'bit of luck', they'd get to roll twice for each attack (and potentially other rolls as well), yes?
If a human sorcerer becomes a vampire at lvl 5 (type changes from humanoid(human) to undead (augmented humanoid human) )
I've been playing this in a group and we're having a blast!
Our DM has us roll 2d6+8 for attributes (rolling two matrix's taking the higher of the two). Needless to say we have powerful characters (which is awesome as I/we enjoy optimizing our characters). Speaking of characters our group consists of the following (7 players all veterans):
We all worship the big A except for the rogue who signed on for vengeance and eventual riches.
Should I survive, my build will be:
At the moment (lvl4) my stats are:
At lvl 20 I'll have:
As far as how we've done so far..
In the prison we used stealth,bluff and took the guards one or two at a time. We freed Grumble jack but fearing he was too clumsy we kept him guarding the cafeteria as we went to the other guard locations taking them out. The most we faced at a time was 4 when we fought the warden. He knocked one of our characters down before he and his men fell but we healed him right back up. We effectively looted anything that wasn't nailed down and then set the prison on fire. Before that however the human fey blooded sorcerer looking at the dogs in the cages said "the dogs shouldn't starve.. that's cruel." then took the body of the warden and stuck his dead body into the dogs cages. lol
After that we made it leisurely to the manor house. Signed the pact and mingled some with the other knot learning their story. In 3 days we got our 24 hour mission to learn the lessons. Being all veteran gamers who like being creative, we completed the lessons in 30 game world minutes. We didn't kill Tim the kid, we got info from him, found out Sir Balin would be at the end. We figured we have to kill him so when we went into his chamber my character had Tim held with a sword against Tim's throat telling Sir Balin to drop his weapons and shield, and get on the ground. He did and our casters mage handed them away from him. Sir Balin then realized we worshipped big A and then flipped out, standing up and attacked us despite his charge being held as a hostage. At which point we surrounded him and beat him down (he had no weapons but a dagger and no shield, so it didn't take too long). None of us fell in the 9 lessons. Thorn was indeed impressed.
We then got our next mission to go up north. We purchased some equipment, boarded the boarded the frost hammer and headed north. We ran into the patrol and my character put on the necklace from Sir Balin, and turned to look like a knight. They boarded us and asked what we were doing. I told them we were bringing orphans much needed relief up north, and got some intel from him in casual conversation. He totally bought it and even donated 2GP for those pooooorr orphans before he let us go. ;)
After that we traveled more north, met some merfolk type creatures and water elementals we stomped hard on an island. The one with the trident got away though. We then met with some atuk or some such traders we successfully traded those masterwork items for ivory with. Then we ran into the mephit, we stomped and with him begging for his life he agreed to become our minion (he is a mixture of annoying and hilarious to be sure) so we kept him against the capatin of the frost hammer's preference.
Then when we finally got all the way to the bugbear's dock we met the 3 who were speaking in goblin, we tried intimidating them but it didn't work. That's fine as we pounded them pretty fast. Fireaxe came and gave his speach. We told him we'd meet with him in a few moments, we just needed to settle some thing with the captain. He seemed reluctant but let us. After he walked away, our party all looked at each other and positioned ourselves tactically on the boat. As inconspicuously as we could so we could flank captain and his crew. We cucceeded. Our cleric started off with "oh your crewmate is injured.. let me heal him for you!" *inflict light wounds* *bluff* "Oh I'm sorry.. let me try again" *inflict light wounds*. Then initiative started with us getting a surprise round. Holy crap the captain was tough (I'm guessing he was lvl8-10 due to his hit points and number of attacks!).. even with our good positioning and tactics we were basically just very lucky we only had one of our characters fall during combat (not die, just on the ground). However even with that.. to be honest we weren't in any real danger. At this point our group is starting to feel kinda invincible.
Note I did tell our DM in this last game that since we have almost twice the number of players (as it was written for 4 pcs as we have 7), he might want to up the enemy count. He assured me it will get tougher and left it at that.
In any case we then looted and burned the boat and joined the feast with Fireaxe. After getting our next mission from Fireaxe we learned we need a boat again at which point we face palmed.. We'll see if we can barter with one of them to get a ride there from one of their boats (they want to sell us a boat in exchange for the captains great axe.. and unless its a folding boat I dont' think we'll want to "keep it" as we think we'll just have to abandon it once across the other side.
That's were we're at now. We play again this Thursday. I can't wait!
Some interesting things of note:
In any case I guess we'll need to break out the powder and fake stashe kits before we hit any populated areas once we become undead.
Questions for Gary or anyone who knows the answers. I'm looking at the 4rd vampire feat "The Initiated" and it states "If reduced to zero hit points" and then ends.. it doesn't say 'what' happens at zero hit points (like it did for the 3nd lvl feat.
Anyone know what it should have said?
2nd question; Anyone know where one can find the eratta for the WotW books?
Thanks, and Gary your AP is flippin awesome!
@Gary- Antipaladin question:
When you say their cohorts, followers and henchmen maybe of any evil alignment, does this also apply to their "fiendish boon" power if they selected the 'fiendish servant' option for this power?
That is by raw with this power they'd only be able to select CE demons from the summon monster list.
As per the SRD:
@Gary- Out of curiosity, is there any errata for book 1? I purchased the pdf and softcover through Paizo but didn't get any with the purchase (at least not with the pdf version. The softcover is still on its way).
BTW- Thank you for your time and the creation of an awesome AP!
""Way of the Wicked" is Pathfinder's only evil adventure path. From levels 1-20 you get to tread a path of irredeemable villainy and be the sort of bad guy you've only dreamed of.
Talingarde is the most noble, virtuous kingdom in all the land. They have dealt faithfully with their friends and honorably with their foes. You will burn this insipid paradise to the ground.
They arrested you for a crime you did commit. They threw you into prison not to rot but to wait for your well-deserved punishment. In three days, you die for what you did. Three days - more then enough time to break out. And then, it won't be you facing the fire. Then you will have your revenge.
Why is this popular? It's fun to be the bad guy. Bad guys have style. Bad guys get all the best lines. Bad guys rule. If, by the end of this adventure path, you aren't sipping your wine out of a silver-dragon-skull cup while you sit on your iron throne and issue orders to your army of minions to find the paladin and bring him to you alive - you are playing some other game."
I'm setting up a character optimization friendly Pathfinder game running the "Way of the Wicked" evil pc campaign.
If you're not familiar with "Way of the Wicked" but you're curious about an evil pc campaign check out the reviews here to learn more about the evil 'win' that this AP has in store: Way of the Wicked—Book One: Knot of Thorns (PFRPG)
All those interested in playing (or DMing) post here and/or email me at (my username) at hotmail.com.
Note: The DM will not have to purchase the campaign books.
Thanks for the clarification! As I'm rather a fan of CO (character optimization) I'll have to read that section in book 5 before I make my character (assuming that doesn't include spoilers for players).
Also Gary, Kevin says you mentioned in your book that you suggested the group could become vampires at lvl 2 or lvl 11 (at DM discretion). My question is would you think becoming vampires at lvl 2 would cause a game power imbalance? What level's do you think are feasible for characters to be come vampires (story and game balance wise)?
I mean I love the idea of playing a vampire at even such a low level and flaunting my blood sucking vampire powers and general bad-ass-ness, however I am also afraid a DM might potentially feel a power imbalance or feel overwhelmed.. that is unless this is accounted for in your books via advice?
Thanks for your time!
So some like the focus/foible and some didn't.. guess it's left all to chance roll wise (if I rolled well I'd love it). ;)
Question about the mechanics of gaining the augmented template for vamp:
The augmented template is a bit ambiguous how it functions when it comes to Paizo's rules from what I can see. When one becomes a vamp and they gain the augmented subtype, how does that effect them? Do they loose their original race traits (for example a human turned vamp, would he loose the +2 ability bonus, extra feat and skill point per level for being human)? If a human turned vamp would they still be considered 'human' for their favored character class? Could a ranger with favored enemy human still get the bonus against them?
Hope you had your coffee so you don't yell at me for asking hard questions early in the day. ;)
I want to ask how any of the DM's on here handled starting attributes? Did you follow the focus/foible (and no moving stats rolled), 25 pt buy, or some other option? I think personally I'd like the focus/foible as a player if I was able to move the rolls around.
If.. ahem I mean WHEN I get to play this I plan to be a human infernal sorcerer at the start maxing my cha as I lvl. When I become a vamp, I'm going to have a truly ungodly (ha pun) amount of hit points! :D
PS- Hmm, I was thinking perhaps you could spec your hexblade out and make him on the side of light.. but that could cause problems; 1) he kills the party and they call fowl play or 2) The party kills him and you're pist your character just got killed by those evil bastards. :P Good idea making him a cohort in that situation. ;)
Well actually I want to FIND a DM as well as other players. That is I want to play this not DM it. Heh, in fact I have to not buy the books until I get a DM or I'll fail my will save and read them all (then I'd HAVE to DM). :(
Heh, if only I lived closer to Oregon, I'd attempt to bribe you with pizza and swedish fish (typical DM bribes) to allow me to play in your game. ;)
In any case the books will get purchased. I'm trying to lure a DM to run this by offering to purchase all of the books for the campaign. *sets out bait online and waits for a bite* :)
I can't help it but I have a few player questions for ya Gary:
2) Also when pcs are allowed to become a vampire or lich, do you recommend those templates added as a +2LA (as pathfinder srd lists those as CR +2) or with no LA? Admittedly I'm a bit of an optimizer so I'm wondering how that would work mechanically.
Thanks for your time!
I ran into this AP by accident almost a month ago and I'm hooked! I've always wanted to play in an evil pc campaign but never have. The more I've read about this AP the more this looks less like a simple evil pc campaign I originally was attracted to play but rather like it embodies the iconic grand slam of evil awesome hit clear out of the park with copious amounts of win thrown in (if all the glowing reviews/player accounts everywhere are any indication)! It has transitioned from a place of initial curiosity to a must-have experience in my gaming life. However sadly it is with a heavy heart I report my usual group isn't interested in playing this (I've tried believe me) so alas I have to locate another group to play this with.
As such I'll be breaking out the internet binoculars and magnifying glass searching for a PF WotW game near me in Jersey.
Heh.. any of you planning to run a game in Jersey/Philly by any chance?
Also any advice on how you would go about hunting such a game down online (so far I've tried meetup and rpggamefind)?
I simply must play this. My inner dark overlord is calling. ;)