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RumpinRufus's page

Pathfinder Society Member. 1,915 posts (2,012 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 5 Pathfinder Society characters. 3 aliases.


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Rynjin wrote:
RumpinRufus wrote:

Those monks could be closer to the Martial Artist type.

The normal monk gets class features like Still Mind, which require great amounts of self-discipline. Basically, the monk's abilities largely draw from an incredible degree of self-control and self-mastery, a level which is nearly impossible to achieve without being lawful.

Oh yeah that's a perfectly logical-Ohai Drunken Master how are you?

Yeah, there are admittedly some curveballs. Wildcat Monk, specialist in crotch kicks, eye pokes, theft, and pantsing - must be lawful.

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Those monks could be closer to the Martial Artist type.

The normal monk gets class features like Still Mind, which require great amounts of self-discipline. Basically, the monk's abilities largely draw from an incredible degree of self-control and self-mastery, a level which is nearly impossible to achieve without being lawful.

Heavens oracle would be pretty great as well. (Even against those 3 barbarians.)

Gwen Smith wrote:

Then the three melee fighters picked up Outflank, and fights were over as soon as they got in flank position. The rogue crits, which triggers an AoO from the fighter and the druid's wolf companion. The first one to hit gets an automatic critical, and gods help the poor bad guy if one of those AoOs also crits, because the rogue and the wolf both had Combat Reflexes.

It takes some pretty precise positioning to get this working, though. And it doesn't work against medium or smaller creatures, since there's no way for all three of you to be flanking the same square, unless you have a fourth flanking partner.

I just feel like proof of competency on the therapist's part will make it easier for the other PCs to let potentially-dangerous opponents live.

How would you build a character whose main focus is helping people see the error of their ways, and change them accordingly?

I am planning on playing a character who is a pacifist oracle of the setting's equivalent of Shelyn. I'll be trying hard not to kill enemies, but to either talk them down from fighting, or get them to recant their ways.

But, I feel like taking captives is often a hard sell to the rest of the party, as they can add annoyance, uncertainty, and complication to the game. A convenient NPC that manages a rehabilitation clinic or asylum could be a helpful way to unload possibly-repentent enemies. If there is a clear pipeline to unload these people, the party might be more willing to take people alive, and without a long discussion each time.

Strategy for my oracle to take people alive:
I'll try to avoid combats, using an Authoritative Vestments to make swift-action Diplomacy checks, the Elven Serenity trait to calm people down, and the Calm Emotions spell to stop people from fighting.

During combat (if it comes to that) I'll focus on non-damaging save-or-suck spells like Greater Command, Hold Person, and Chains of Light, as well as healing.

After combat, I'll use the spell Early Judgment to give them a glimpse of their fate in the afterlife. I figure it will be harder for them to keep practicing evil after they've viewed their own damnation! My character will also act as a therapist, soothing them with massage and trying to get them to open up about what led them down the path they're on. When relevant, I may quote scripture about the saving power of love, etc.

So my question: does anyone have good ideas about what kind of character would be best at rehabilitating criminals, evildoers, and misguided souls? (It'll be a non-combat NPC, level 5-7, that could use a PC class.)

Half-orc bloodrager with the Abyssal bloodline is pretty hard to beat.

I had been under the impression that performing a combat maneuver provokes an attack of opportunity from anyone who threatens you. However, looking back over the rules, it looks like it may only provoke from the opponent you're targeting with the combat maneuver.

Performing a Combat Maneuver wrote:
Unless otherwise noted, performing a combat maneuver provokes an attack of opportunity from the target of the maneuver. If you are hit by the target, you take the damage normally and apply that amount as a penalty to the attack roll to perform the maneuver.

The table that lists which actions provoke or don't provoke lists combat maneuvers as provoking, and doesn't specify that they only provoke from the target of the maneuver.

So, do they provoke from everyone, or just the target?

Some really fantastic suggestions here.

(Greater) Stunning Barrier seems great, not sure how I overlooked it before. If I understand it correctly, they must make a save every time they hit me?

Spell Storing armor with Frigid Touch is a fantastic idea as well. No-save staggered effect is pretty much exactly what I'm looking for! It's looking like we'll have a wizard and possibly a druid who can charge me up.

The Reactive Healing feat is also a great one to consider. I'm feeling a little feat-starved (haven't even had room to take Improved Initiative, or any of the metamagic feats like Persistent, Piercing, or Quicken) but I guess I'll never be able to take those if I'm dead. Now, I just have to decide if I should give up Alignment Channel for one of these feats. (I have to be honest, going nova by forcing 30d6 of pure love into some demons at DC 26 (and 33d6 DC 28 next level) by using Quick Runner's Shirt and Quick Channel is tempting, but also we'll have characters who are actually built to do damage as well.)

edit: two quick questions about Frigid Touch: 1) even if they are immune to cold, they still become staggered, correct? 2) The Spell Storing property automatically imparts the touch attack with no roll, and therefore no chance of critical, correct?

That being said, since this thread is discussing Antagonize, I was curious if anyone might explain why it's considered broken? I understand you can draw fire with it (aggro for lack of better term) but I've never seen it in actual play.

The main issue people have with Antagonize is that there's no save. Any other similar effect would allow a Will save, but for Antagonize you just make a check vs a DC that is practically a sure-thing if you build for it.

I've used it - it's a really fun, flavorful feat. It didn't break the game or anything. At most, you eat up one round for one enemy, and maybe force them into precarious positioning.

Probably not - if the feat was less good then I'd allow it, but +2 AC AND +2 Initiative is already a great feat, even without the part that lets it count as a piercing weapon.

I'm reconsidering how useful Sanctuary will be - my general plan for combat is to spam save-or-suck spells, and as soon as I go for the Hold Person or Chains of Light or Greater Command, it's going to break my Sanctuary effect. (In general I'm avoiding combat buffs as "making people better at killing things" isn't in the spirit of the character, and avoiding summons because "bringing in creatures to kill things" is even less in character.)

Would casting Chain of Perdition break the Sanctuary effect?

Antagonize is an awesome feat for a paladin, especially sword-and-board.

My GM is the type that will balance encounters to match the party, but he won't make out-of-character decisions for the baddies just to avoid killing a PC (especially if they are reasonably experienced.)

I have to say though, I am still considering going in with AC 11. If someone is in a position to full-attack me, I can move away - it'll provoke, but I can heal the damage from a single attack easily. If I'm afraid of getting grabbed, I can cast Freedom of Movement on myself. If I keep up Air Walk in general, fewer enemies will be able to reach me. The biggest hazard would be situations where my mobility is very limited, and situations where there are so many enemies that there's nowhere on the map that's more than a 5-foot-step away from reach.

edit: I should also mention I'll be taking Waves of Ecstasy at 14th level, which will stagger my enemies with no save (although it does allow SR.) Are there any other good staggering spells on the cleric/oracle list?

Build details for those that are interested:
(note: asterisk* marks things that are more likely to be changed. The general concept is a pacifist, who worships the setting's equivalent of Shelyn.)

Half-elf life oracle, wrecker curse
strength 8, dexterity 12, constitution 12, intelligence 14, wisdom 10, charisma 27 (17 + 2 racial + 2 level + 6 headband)
traits: Overwhelming Beauty, Elven Serenity
feats: Fast Learner (for elven and human FCBs), Selective Channel, Quick Channel, Clarifying Channel, Alignment Channel*, Divine Protection, Skill Focus (heal)*
revelations: Channel, Spirit Boost, Combat Healer, Lifesense
spells will focus on save-or-suck (Command, Calm Emotions, Hold Person, Sound Burst, Greater Command, Chains of Light)
gear (82K available):
Cha Headband +6 (36K)*, Mnemonic Vestment 2/day (10K), Mitre of the Hierophant (18K), Necklace Phylactery of Positive Channeling (11K), Handy Haversack (2K), Quick Runner's Shirt (1K), Authoritative Vestments (0.45K)

First, I'd like to thank everybody for some good suggestions.

The Sanctuary spell seems like a good option, especially if I have time to buff (or take Quicken Spell.)

Wand of Mage Armor is not a terrible idea, but I feel like if I do decide to get some AC I should just go ahead and get a +1 mithral breastplate. (I was originally under the impression that it would be perpetually broken from the wrecker curse, but the consensus seems to be that only held objects are broken.)

A jingasa would almost definitely be a good idea, but I already have a head slot item, so I'd have to add it to my mitre (which might be weird for flavor reasons.)

A Major Cloak of Displacement WOULD be great except 1) it's out of my price range and 2) the standard action to activate is brutal considering the cost. A Minor Cloak of Displacement is more reasonable, I just don't know if it's worth the cost.

A shield would be compromised by my wrecker curse, and be perpetually broken.

Conclusions: I kind of feel like I should go either with a Minor Cloak of Displacement, or get some actual AC. Sanctuary is a good choice if I have a chance to buff or I'm potentially going to be attacked by multiple enemies.

1) It's not clear to me that you can smite more than once/day. Not sure RAW on this, though.

2) Celestial/Fiendish smite does not bypass DR like paladin smite does, AFAIK, nor does it provide an AC bonus. So, it's a nice damage bump but it's not as good as a paladin's smite.

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I just dislike the "don't bother showing up unless you're a powergamer" attitude.

If player A enjoys optimizing, great. If player B picks an interesting concept and sticks with it (even if it is underpowered,) also great. There's no reason type B can't play in a game with type A, as long as the GM is willing to make accommodations.

I just consider it stifling when I have a character that I REALLY want to play but it's not combat-oriented, and therefore not welcome in a Pathfinder game.

I open this thread to general comments about AC at high levels, along with specific advice about my wrecker-cursed life oracle.

So, I'm building a life oracle at level 11, and I'm seriously considering just going without armor, ring of protection, or any of that stuff and just sitting at AC 11. My reasoning being, I could invest a whole lot of resources into getting a reasonable AC but I'd probably still be hit by anything that isn't an iterative, or I could just invest elsewhere and embrace the squishy.

Mitigating factors:
1) I'll be channeling at 10d6, increasing by +1d6 every three out of four levels (by using the elf FCB and a phylactery.) Combine that with swift action Cure Critical Wounds and the ability to channel as a move action, and I can easily heal myself for ~100 HP on my turn.
2) Spirit Boost can give me temp hit points as well.
3) At level 15 the Wrecker curse will have a good chance of turning any weapons that hit me into dust, so I won't have to worry about iteratives as much.
4) The character is built to avoid combat as much as possible (by using Authoritative Vestments, Calm Emotions, general diplomacy, etc.) and then use save-or-suck spells to shut down the enemies if things do get heated.

1) I'll be the healer, so I may be the primary target for intelligent enemies.
2) Con won't be great, maybe 12 Con.

What do you think, is it suicidal to go for no AC, even with massive healing powers?

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thegreenteagamer wrote:
Problem with giving him extra loot is I can't make the party unfairly distribute drops. (On phone now, replies will be much more brief)

If you drop a Gloves of Dueling, who else could even use it?

Plus, he's probably using a different weapon than the paladin. If he is is using a polearm and the paladin is using a great sword, drop an awesome polearm and it'll be clear who it's gonna go to.

If you really think the pally might grab his nice new sword, you could even put an evil inscription or an unholy symbol or something etched right onto the blade.

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If you are the GM, this is no problem at all. Let him build the character he wants, and then drop him extra loot to bring him up to snuff as necessary.

I feel like it's FAR better to give a player extra WBL until they don't feel useless, rather than restricting their character design because everyone else is an optimizer. If he has a concept, let him roll with it. If you want him to be balanced with the party, then drop him a fancy sword, and a nice set of armor. (And/or some cool items that give him a more versatile set of standard actions to choose from.)

Ring of Mind Shielding would work, yeah.

The Rakshasa bloodline power really isn't that bad, either. If you take Magical Knack (which you should if you're dipping) then the DC starts at 13 at 4th level. Keep in mind it's a caster level check, so even a DC 13 is enough to beat an even-level inqusitor 40% of the time. If you keep taking sorcerer levels, their chances never get any better. It's no sure-thing, but it's not bad either. Plus, you get a Will save on top of the Rakshasa ability.

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Oh man, Iomedae probably has the simplest paladin code of all.

Kill. Evil. ALL of it.

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I would disagree that the "Convincing Lie" ability was ever standard.

*PC w/o Convincing Lie convinces NPC#1 he is truly a dragon*
NPC#1: "I'm a dragon!"
NPC#2: "No, you're an idiot."

*PC with Convincing Lie convinces NPC#1 he is truly a dragon*
NPC#1: "I'm a dragon! I know it sounds far-fetching, but consider that..."
NPC#2: "Wow! I guess you really must be a dragon!"

The OP already said that it was Erastil.

Sorry, missed that!

I'd think a paladin of Erastil should endeavor to provide food and provisions for those in need, as he is the god of hunting and farming.

He would work toward simplicity and self-sufficiency. Bureaucracy, technology, and over-specialization of labor should be resisted, as they bring people further away from nature.

He should not wear intricate clothing, eat elaborately-prepared foods (especially if he doesn't know what is in them,) or sleep in soft beds.

He should always pray to thank Erastil before eating.

It's going to be basically impossible to write a paladin's code without knowing his/her deity.

Bump this thread when you find out?

What issue?

No you can not, per this FAQ.

Prince Yyrkoon wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:
RumpinRufus wrote:
To the rogue-haters in this thread: No other class can get the Rumormonger ability
Archeologist & Negotiator Bard can.
As can the Slayer!

Nope, slayers cannot get the Rumormonger talent.

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Uncharted =/= uninhabited.

Or, you could always have a lifeboat land on the island with a survivor of a nearby shipwreck.

Alternatively, for the next couple sessions see if the player would be interested in roleplaying a native animal that befriends the party. Then, raise his PC when the story allows.

Imbicatus wrote:
RumpinRufus wrote:
To the rogue-haters in this thread: No other class can get the Rumormonger ability
Archeologist & Negotiator Bard can.

My mistake. At 10th or 12th level, a bard can get the ability that the Charlatan gets at 3rd level.

To the rogue-haters in this thread: No other class can get the Rumormonger ability. "If the check succeeds, the rumor is practically accepted as fact within the community." YES PLEASE! I've wanted to build a Charlatan for the longest time, just because this ability is so damn cool.

If you do take Sorcerer levels, the Rakshasa bloodline will give you an additional +5 on your Bluff checks.

The Power of Suggestion trait is very cool as well. More-or-less flat DC to make everyone believe an object in your hand is something else, no save.

Coax Information is a cool talent - use Bluff instead of Intimidate to get information.

For gear, pick up a wand of Honeyed Tongue so your Diplomacy skills will be excellent as well.

Very incomplete list:

Druid: Saurian Shaman, Lion Shaman, Menhir Savant
Rogue: Knife Master, Scout, Thug
Gunslinger: Musket Master
Summoner: Master Summoner, Synthesist
Swashbuckler: Inspired Blade

I believe that "1 sp/day" part if referring to NPCs. As in, if YOU hire an untrained laborer that is what you pay to them.

Ravingdork, did he end up doing it? How did it work out for him?

I was (still am) considering building a Qinggong monk with Quicken Spell-Like Ability for True Strike. Use Bull Rush, Reposition, Ki Throw, and the Flowing Monk abilities to chuck all his enemies wherever he wants them around the battlefield.

edit: ninja'ed!

What's with the multiclassing? You're planning on fighting with a sling? Why even pick oracle if you're so far behind with spells?

I don't know if I'm missing something, nothing about this build makes sense to me. How would this be in any way overpowered?


I would rule that your mount gets to make a Reposition check to move the enemy.

But like Frodo, if this were for a PFS game I'd say you need to release the grapple or stop.

Malachi Silverclaw wrote:

If there was a spell which said something like, 'during the duration of this spell you may attack (or full attack) with a ranged touch attack which deals 1d10 fire damage', then yes you could use the effect of this spell to execute an AoO via Snap Shot.

Can't think of any particular spell which does this...

Produce Flame.

Fiery Shuriken cannot work, as it is a swift action to fire one, and you can't use swift actions during an AoO.

Produce Flame could maybe possibly work, but I don't know if you can take Weapon Focus (Produce Flame).

How did Fighter Weapon Groups get mixed into this? Some actual weapons don't even have a Fighter Weapon Group, like the dorn-dergar.

Does this mean that the person performing the disarm forgoes their normal attack to conduct the disarm?

They forgo one single attack, yes.

Also if a person has multiple attacks (from high BaB or Two Weapon Style) would they get to make a disarm attempt with one of their melee attacks and then make a melee attack with their off hand weapon?


Also, to make life easier for me... is there some sort of chart that shows which maneuvers can be performed and an attack done with them?

Disarm, trip, and sunder can be performed in place of a melee attack. In general, other maneuvers take a standard action.

Well, that's not even close to what I said. I said drawing an arrow by its end with a fingertips-grasp is probably quicker than grabbing it with a closed fist on the shaft.

blackbloodtroll wrote:

Why should it matter what you are going to do with the arrow?

You pull one out, then decide if you are going to fire it, or use it as an improvised weapons.

There is nothing outside of some time backwards-working, confusing houserule, that I cannot even figure out how one would implement, that would change this.

Bold liberties indeed. Bah.

I cannot even begin to wonder how you would argue against such a thing.

Well, one could argue that when taking an arrow from the quiver to fire, you are grabbing it near the fletching, which is incidentally the part that is exposed in the quiver and therefore the part you would grab first. No extra movement required.

When using the arrow as a weapon, you would be holding it further down the shaft, or the balance would be way off. So, at some point between taking it from the quiver and stabbing someone, you'd have to move where your hand is gripping the arrow from a fingertip-grasp on the fletching to a closed fist further down the shaft. So, it WOULD take longer to draw an arrow for use as an improvised weapon compared to drawing it to fire from a bow.

As far as the rules are concerned, "switch grip" is a free action and would cover changing the way you hold an arrow.

As far as RAI is concerned, Quick Draw specifies weapons, and if you say "I draw my scroll as an improvised weapon and then cast the spell off it" that doesn't make a lot of sense.

Are you saying you believe that moving north, then northeast, then north, then northeast, only counts as 20 feet of movement? Because, that is incorrect. The second diagonal counts as 10 feet, so those 4 squares moved would cost you 25 feet of movement.

Measuring Distance wrote:
When measuring distance, the first diagonal counts as 1 square, the second counts as 2 squares, the third counts as 1, the fourth as 2, and so on.

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I feel like this is a common problem. Party cohesion is tough, and getting a good adventure hook that gives away enough to let people align their backstory with the adventure, without giving TOO much away, is challenging.

One idea I've come up with is using "connection stories". As part of their backstory, ask players to write about how their character has previously met at least one of the other characters. The idea is, if the characters already know each other and have had some sort of meaningful interaction, there should be a stronger reason for them to stick together.

I would imagine you roll two sets of two dice, and for each set take the highest, and then take the lower result between the two sets. But, I don't know the official rule.

Well trying to read that mess is even more work.


The issue is that Slashing Grace makes the weapon count as piercing for feats and class abilities. The Swordmaster's Flair isn't a feat or class ability.

RAI, it should probably work. In a home game, probably any GM would allow it. RAW, it does not seem to work.

I'd say you have to get it custom-made to fit the dino, but it should work.

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