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RumpinRufus's page

Pathfinder Society Member. 2,676 posts (2,773 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 5 Pathfinder Society characters. 3 aliases.


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I don't know of a RAW way, but if he takes Alignment Channel, you could homebrew feats that duplicate Turn Undead and Command Undead for the chosen alignment subtype. I feel like outsiders are probably more powerful per HD than undead are, though, so maybe put a lower maximum on how many HD of outsiders he can control.


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Irontruth wrote:
My question: why would you use Pathfinder to play this game?

Because Pathfinder is 100% capable of supporting such a game... and it also has an incredible depth of mechanics. My hope would be that once I got more practice in RP that doesn't use mechanics as a crutch, the interaction between the mechanics and the RP would be freer and more fun.


Pizza Lord wrote:

It's definitely not something unique to you. There have been many times I wanted to run or play in a group of matched characters; swarm-fighters for instance really need at least a couple others sharing that talent. All mages from the same school, etc.

Only once, in the World's Largest Dungeon did we all make halfling swarm-fighters (3.5) and it worked pretty good, we did end up all having the same feats and such in the beginning, since you only get so many and need some specific ones to not die horribly at 1st-2nd level.

Even if you do get fighters or some other class to be identical in stats and skills and feats, it will not hold true for more than 3 levels or so. Eventually one is going to get a magic item, like a wand, or a +1 magical weapon, or a pair of boots. At it's most basic level, one character will get some half-plate or a breastplate off a slain foe, and one character will decide that he prefers Leather armor.

Then you 'risk/have':
The fighter with the longsword and the full-plate.
The fighter with the chainshirt and the glowing +1 longsword.
The fighter with the leather armor and longsword with the slippers of spider climbing.
These things will affect how the character is viewed beyond just a personality type. There will be the character known for zipping up walls or the character known for his sword that cuts dragons in half, or his bow that fires electric arrows.

I'd say don't try and get too hung up on things, because no matter how hard you try, it's not going to conform for long.

Cool to hear that a similar thing has worked out for you in the past!

I was not planning on forcing identical gear - if anything, I was considering giving 2x WBL to allow them to diversify a little bit. Or probably something like 1x WBL base with 3 bonuses of extra 1/3 WBL if they have their character description, backstory, and motivations/goals submitted 1, 2 and 3 weeks before the first session (in any order, and allowing substitutions of other character-related information for any of those pieces.)


Markov Spiked Chain wrote:

Is it violating the premise to all play Aasimar Medium 1/Unsworn Shaman X?

14 Str, 8 Dex, Con 12, Int 13, Wis 15+2, Cha 14+2
Noble Scion(War), Legendary Influence, Toughness, and teamwork feats.

You can each choose your Medium Spirit, Shaman Spirit, and Hexes every morning. It's hard to be an archer since your Dex sucks. But you can each end up very distinct day to day.

There's a thread on the general idea here:
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2swrn?The-Most-Interesting-man-in-the-World#16

I like the suggestion. As for if it violates the premise, I'm still unsure. I myself was wondering if Brawler, for example, is already subverting the premise. I suppose in its purest form you don't want anything memorable about the character stemming simply from mechanics... so even any prepared caster may be pushing it, since it could become "he's the blasty one, he's the summoner, etc." But it's already a very extreme experiment... too much limitation could kill it.

I think all gunslinger could be fun. Or all ranger. Or Hell, just go full boy-band and make everyone a Celebrity bard.


Battle oracles (or Life oracles) get quickened Cure spells, which you could flavor as punches. So you can heal twice, heal once and full-attack, or just full-attack.


Rub-Eta wrote:

So... you want to prove a point to your players about what you think is fun? And you go about it by forcing them to play the way you want them to play? And it's not even certain it will help to prove your point, they may just get bored and leave the game instead? But that's okay, because that's the intention?

Seems like a very good idea.

Fair questions... it's more about a scenario I would enjoy playing as one of the PCs. I know some of the traps I've fallen into where I make an early RP choice that ends up stereotyping my character in a way that I end up regretting. I am just curious to get feedback on whether others feel the same way... if I were a more skilled RPer then I wouldn't need to try out this exercise, but I was thinking it might be a way to strengthen my RP process.

I also am not suggesting that you actually force anyone to play this way - I'm aware that 75% of players probably wouldn't be interested in this game. But, if you ask a dozen people "would you be interested in this?" and get 4 yesses, there's your game. Play three sessions or so, see if people are digging it, and take it from there.


KahnyaGnorc wrote:
RumpinRufus wrote:
Part of the goal is to avoid stereotyped RP choices.
If that is the case, another option is to have them create their character's RP and backstory, then pseudo-randomly choose race and class. (If you have 4 people, randomly assign Front-line, Caster, Healer, and Skill-Monkey to them (so you have roles covered), then randomly roll classes under those roles, races could be fully random)

Personally, I find my intended RP vs my actual RP can diverge significantly. I might have a fleshed-out character in mind before the first session. But then instead of actually RPing to express the character I've planned, I end up making the easy, expected choices, like being extra goofy as a gnome, even if that didn't fit well with the intended personality based off my back story.

So, even with the pseudo-random assignment, I'd be concerned that it would devolve into "I'm a dwarf now so I'll be extra-ornery," or "I'm an elf now so I'll be extra-haughty."

The potential beauty of the exact same build is that you are FORCING real in-game RP to be the ONLY distinguishing factor. If they don't differentiate themselves with RP, they probably just won't have any fun... which is actually intended, because you are trusting them to find their fun by truly establishing a character and demonstrating how it is a different character than several mechanically-identical PCs.


Stormagedon Dark Lord of All wrote:

All Red Mage party!

Would you allow them to pick different races?

I would probably go for a party of all bards have them pick different instruments and have a traveling band.

No on different races. Part of the goal is to avoid stereotyped RP choices. I DON'T want it to be "I'm playing the half-orc", "I'm playing the gnome", but rather something like "I'm playing Jordy, whose father was a [], mother came from [], when he was young [] happened to him, and so now he wants to do [] to demonstrate to [] that he is []. But, because of [] he is afraid of [], and has a fondness for []."

I DID actually play a musical campaign! I was lobbying hard for an all-bard party, but we ended up meeting halfway and settling on all musical characters from various classes that formed a traveling band. It was tons of fun, probably the most ridiculous campaign I've played (besides perhaps the all-gnome campaign.) I'd highly recommend that sort of campaign, but now I want to even take it one step farther!


I have been mulling what it would be like to play with a party where every character is built with the exact stats, feats, skills, etc.

My thought was, if everyone is mechanically identical, it could be a good exercise to force them to differentiate themselves in RP, without having the potential crutch of defining their character purely based off what's on their character sheet. It would basically require them to flesh out their PC into a multi-dimensional character. Now, I wouldn't propose playing a whole campaign like this, but maybe like 3-4 sessions (and who knows, maybe they would really start to enjoy it and want to keep going.)

What do you think? And how would you build a character if four party members were going to use the same build?


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If you like the "wild side of magic", you should look into trying a Spellscar Oracle. Use the Eldritch Scar revelation to cause crazy primal magic events.

Then if you want more wildness, pick up a Rod of Wonder and the Primal Mastery revelation. If your GM allows you an intelligent Rod of Wonder that could be a very memorable character.


Humans can trade their bonus feat for proficiency in two weapons with the Military Tradition racial trait, so that would give you firearm proficiency at level 1.


How much fun would it be to make a character that forces the enemy to do nothing but attack you, and then prevents the enemy from attacking you?

A Street Performer at 7th level with the Antagonize feat can aggro the bad guy with a standard action, and then use Harmless Performer as a move action to force the enemy to make a Will save to follow through with the attack (or a concentration check to not lose their spell.)

Sure, it's not that much stronger than Antagonize alone... but it is funnier! And it just takes one feat and an archetype... is there anything else you could do to add to the build?


I think dipping Thug is usually a great idea when making an Intimidate build. Shaken is ok, Frightened is GREAT.


This makes me think of Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup, so:

here's the list of titles from that game.


I think Sarenrae is the best pick.

Quote:
Sarenrae teaches temperance and patience in all things. Compassion and peace are her greatest virtues, and if enemies of the faith can be redeemed, they should be.


So if I understand correctly, a stealthing creature still has to hit normal AC (not flat-footed AC) unless the target is flat-footed? It's only if they're invisible that they can hit flat-footed AC?

Because otherwise the fighter FCB for kobolds would be quite nice (1/2 level to damage.) Fighter would also be able to actually do damage even while having two feat slots eaten up by sniping feats.


It sounds like Barachiel is the GM, correct? I think houseruling this would be fine.


Gate would work...


Avoron wrote:
You have some other nice options for traits, including Bullied and Bred for War. Initiative is handy, but I'm not sure the difference between a +2 and a +4 is worth the trait slot.

Ooh, Bred for War is really nice, I'll put that in! I looked at Bullied but hopefully any unarmed AoOs I make will be against prone opponents anyway, so I shouldn't need too much help.

avr wrote:

Why a fauchard? A flying blade or elven branched spear gives a +2 on the AoOs you'll be hoping to use wolf style with.

Why keep high jump, if you're going qinggong? Almost anything you might trade it out for would be better.

The -2 on attack rolls with a flying blade is pretty yucky. Branched spear is interesting - the damage die and crit profile are worse and it's not a trip weapon, but +2 on AoOs with it is nice.

I wasn't seeing anything great to trade High Jump for, although as Avoron suggests having something to deal with fliers could be helpful, so maybe Scorching Ray is the way to go.

Nargenn wrote:
Something else to be aware of is that when an opponent provokes when standing up from prone, the attack resolves while they're still considered prone, meaning you can't use that attack of opportunity to keep them prone. This is to prevent you from being able to 'trip lock' opponents.

Yeah, I'm well aware of that - but if you really want to "trip lock", this char could do that in a couple other ways. The obvious one - ready an trip attempt when they get up. (By 11th level he can even ready two trip attempts and give a +20 bonus to one of them.)

The second way to trip lock is that once you're (permanently) enlarged, you can use Ki Throw to force them to land 20 feet away after you trip them with an AoO. Then if they try to approach you again, you trip them again with your AoO, throw them away, etc.

Avoron wrote:

This is marvelous. I've long been interested in finding an effective way to use the Wolf Style line, and this build does an excellent job.

There are, however, several issues:

The build's Wolf Savage DC is embarrassingly low - probably DC 17 when you get it at ninth level, and it doesn't improve much from there. It has the same problems as Stunning Fist: your target gets a Fortitude save, and you really need a high wisdom and Ability Focus to rely on them failing it.

AC. Flurry of Maneuvers does not work in armor, so it appears that the character's starting AC is 14. How exactly are you planning on improving that? Magic items only go so far.

HP. A Constitution score of 12 on a front-liner with d8 hit dice is asking for a character death. This only compounds your AC problem.

Really, all of these issues stem from the insane MADness of the build. You need strength for attack, damage, and tripping. You need dexterity for AC and attacks of opportunity (initiative and Reflex are nice too). You need CON for HP (Fortitude is nice too). You need Wisdom for AC and Wolf Savage DC (Will and Stunning Fist are nice too). Int is often a monk dump stat, but you have very few skills to begin with, with no human or half-orc bonus skill points and 9 ranks taken up by Knowledge (nature) for the Wolf Style line. Charisma...can be easily dumped, but that's not enough to make up for how thinly your other stats need to be spread.

Oh, and at least at first glance, the build has no ranged combat options whatsoever. Your first encounter with flying creatures might be your last.

And incidentally, you don't qualify for Power Attack until level 2.

Some good critique here. The save DC is not amazing, but it scales nicely. Sure it's unlikely to work against things with great Fort saves, but for debilitating enemy casters/rogue-types/etc. it is a very reasonable DC. Another option for improving the odds is subbing in Improved Dirty Trick for Tripping Strike at 10th. Then, any time you start your turn standing over a prone opponent, use your Flurry of Maneuvers to sicken him before you make your unarmed attacks and use Wolf Savage, getting an effective +2 to your DC (along with the other benefits of having a sickened opponent.)

For AC, Mage Armor does a lot to shore it up. Plus the deterrence effect of a reach weapon, and the fact that any trippable enemies will spend a lot of time prone (or standing up from prone) will give an effective AC boost.

If you want to reduce the MADness issue, you could take avr's suggestion to use an elven branched spear and then get it agile enchanted and get an agile Amulet of Mighty Fists. But that's expensive, you lose Power Attack, it limits you to piddling damage even at low levels and pretty lame damage even after that... so I don't like that route, but it is an option.

For ranged damage, javelins are reasonable and this char has the stats to use them effectively. Or, you could sub out High Jump for Scorching Ray.

Good catch on Power Attack - move Combat Reflexes and Vicious Stomp to level 1, Improved Trip to level 2, and Power Attack to level 3.


I rarely build monks that I think could actually do decent damage along with having cool tactics, so I'm excited for this one.

The concept is to use a reach weapon along with Wolf Trip, Wolf Savage, and Vicious Stomp to mangle any who dare oppose me. Someone trying to approach in melee provokes an AoO, gets tripped, provokes again from Greater Trip, and provokes again from Vicious Stomp. On my turn, I use Flurry of Maneuvers to trip, causing them to provoke twice and giving a chance to mangle them with Wolf Savage.

Build might look like this:

Half-Elf (Ancestral Arms - fauchard) Qinggong Maneuver Master Monk
strength 18, dexterity 14, constitution 12, intelligence 10, wisdom 15, charisma 7
traits: Elven Reflexes, Tianjing Temple Guard
1: Power Attack, Improved Trip, Improved Unarmed Strike, Flurry of Maneuvers, Stunning Fist
2: Combat Reflexes, Evasion
3: Vicious Stomp, Maneuver Training, Maneuver Defense, Fast Movement
4: Ki Pool, Reliable Maneuver
5: Wolf Style, Meditative Maneuver, High Jump
6: Greater Trip
7: Wolf Trip, true strike (Qinggong)
8:
9: Wolf Savage, Improved Evasion
10: Tripping Strike
11: Quicken Spell-Like Ability (true strike), Sweeping Maneuver
12: Abundant Step
13: Dimensional Agility, Ki Throw (Qinggong)
14: Improved Ki Throw
15: Dimensional Assault, Whirlwind Maneuver
16:
17: Dimensional Dervish, Greater Blind-Fight (Qinggong), Penetrating Strike (Qinggong)
18: Medusa's Wrath
19: Critical Focus, Empty Body
20: Perfect Self

It should go without saying that this dude is a tripping machine, and from level 1 he is doing good damage Power Attacking with a two-handed d10 weapon with 18-20/x2 crit range, so that even against un-trippable opponents he can hold his own. (Although with quickened true strike 3/day, they better actually be immune to trip if they want to stay standing.)

I'd love to hear any critiques.


Torbyne wrote:
i had a very fun and functional Daring Champion with Slashing Grace and Whip Mastery. Tactician went toward Tandem Trip. It was feat intensive though...

Sounds like fun! Did you ever look into a Cracked Opalescent White Pyramid Ioun Stone to save a feat at the cost of 1,500 gp?

I have a minor obsession with trying to build whip characters (yes, they are always feat starved) and this item seems like a godsend to help with that.


Great minds think alike!

+1 for Halcamora


Dasrak wrote:
RumpinRufus wrote:
Dasrak wrote:
You're right, it talks about alignment rather than alignment subtype. Rather strange that the author write all that when they could have just written "must have an alignment within 1 step of the deity's alignment", which would have been much clearer and avoided confusion with alignment subtypes. So yeah, just pick a neutral good deity and you're good to go.
It's even broader than that - a herald caller or a LG god could summon a CG or a LE monster (provided they don't have the chaotic or evil subtype,) neither of which is within 1 alignment step from the deity.
No, they can't. The Summon Monster spell gains the alignment descriptor of any creature it summons, and a LG Cleric cannot cast spells of with the evil or chaos descriptors, so those monsters are out of their reach anyways. The Herald Caller doesn't override any of those rules, so those monsters are still out of their reach. In practice, Herald Caller is any monster within 1 alignment step of your deity, plus any with an elemental subtype that match a domain offered by your deity.

Not quite, Summon Monster only gains the alignment descriptor if it summons a creature with that alignment subtype. So, summoning a CE salamander is not a chaotic nor an evil spell, and a CG or a LE herald caller would both be able to summon it. Here's the text:

Summon Monster wrote:
When you use a summoning spell to summon a creature with an alignment or elemental subtype, it is a spell of that type.

Granted, after glancing over the list, it does seem that most of the aligned creatures also have alignment subtypes, so the difference might be mostly irrelevant. The only ones I see that don't have subtypes matching their alignment are the salamander (neither chaotic nor evil) and the xill (evil but not lawful.)


Dasrak wrote:
You're right, it talks about alignment rather than alignment subtype. Rather strange that the author write all that when they could have just written "must have an alignment within 1 step of the deity's alignment", which would have been much clearer and avoided confusion with alignment subtypes. So yeah, just pick a neutral good deity and you're good to go.

It's even broader than that - a herald caller or a LG god could summon a CG or a LE monster (provided they don't have the chaotic or evil subtype,) neither of which is within 1 alignment step from the deity.


The Inspired Blade is another good choice, since it uses Int, and (like all swashbucklers) can demoralize as a swift action.

Slayer debuff (and insta-kill) DCs are based off Int as well.


Well, by far the best class (or just one-level dip) for an Intimidate build is the Thug Rogue. Because making someone Frightened is just so much better than making them Shaken.

Possible build:
Unchained Rogue (Thug, Scout, Bruiser)
1: Sap Adept, Enforcer
2: Intimidating Prowess (rogue talent -> Strong Impression)
3: Two-Weapon Fighting, Power Attack
4: Weapon Focus (sap) (rogue talent -> Weapon Training)
5: Sap Master
6: rogue talent
7: Dazzling Display
8: Shatter Defenses (rogue talent -> Combat Trick)
9: Hurtful
10: advanced rogue talent
11: Skill Focus (intimidate), Furious Focus

However, that doesn't make much use of the high Int, besides being super-duper skilled. As others suggested, you could go Magus or Investigator and just do a one-level dip into Thug.


Can inevitables lie? Because the arbiter, with its spell-like commune, could easily convince the paladin it speaks with the voice of his god. The paladin doesn't know it's only actually able to do that once per week, and all the other times its Albert feeding him whatever he needs to hear at the moment.


Artifix wrote:
Is there a way to make Discern Location permanent, or just castable by someone who can't normally cast it. AKA someone who doesn't have it on there spell list or can't cast spells. Then you could easily have an item on the familiar that lets you know exactly were he is. Yes I know you can just cast it as a wizard, but I also want to know for an idea I have. Also this way you would always were they are.

There is Status.


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Now, if you want to take this one more step...

Quote:
"This man is only the assistant!"

you can keep your familiar permanently in the form of a human, and then give your familiar its own familiar. The party never needs to know that the actual wizard isn't even there.


Oh man, those archetypes are EXCELLENT. Feats are a game-changer - I'm thinking that going for Spring Attack is a good option. The familiar could get it by 9th level with the Beast-Bonded Witch, or by 10th level with the Spirit Binder Wizard.

After reading the witch touch spells, there are a lot of really nasty ones in there! I am tempted to make a LE witch with an augur kyton, dishing out hellish treats like:

1: Chill Touch
2: Aboleth's Lung, Disfiguring Touch, Touch of Bloodletting, Touch of Idiocy, Vomit Swarm
3: Bestow Curse, Excruciating Deformation, Call the Void, Vampiric Touch
4: Fleshworm Infestation, Touch of Slime, Spite, Poison
5: Blood Boil, Wreath of Blades
6: Slay Living, Lash of the Astradaemon
7: Harm, Plane Shift
8: Frightful Aspect

Any other good feats besides the Spring Attack line that I'm missing? (An arbiter has Flyby Attack already so Spring Attack is less necessary if you're going that route.)


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So, we've all heard that one about the wizard:

Quote:

"Knock knock"

"Don't disturb me, you magically illiterate imbecile!"

Yes, our stereotypical wizard friend values his library time (and his fair complexion stands up poorly to natural sunlight.) Yet still, he needs to make a living somehow, and the life of a murderhobo has pay that's hard to beat these days. So let's see if we can coddle him, shall we?

Let's give our friend a Glove of Familiar's Touch, and a permanent telepathic bond to his familiar. Now, he can perform all manner of murderation and murder-facilitation from the comforts of his own kitchen, in his pajamas, while his tea is steeping.

"But isn't sending your familiar into melee the first step in making familiar tartare?" you might ask: which is why our friend has chosen a familiar that won't stay dead for long. But still, to avoid too many unfortunate bouts of greatsword-induced sleepiness brought on by opportunity attacks, we can have it do some stretching to give it reach.

It takes some gold, limits you to touch and personal spells, and eats a few feats. But, isn't it worth it to enjoy your crumpets in peace? So which touch spells are best? Are there better classes than wizard for this idea? What (preferably slotless) items could enhance the familiar's powers to put it on-par with an in-person PC?


I would think that you immediately get the spell slots (so, for example, you could use them for Arcane Blast without resting,) but I don't think the spells just magically appear in your spellbook. I think it's assumed you spend time adding the spell to your spellbook.

Here's what the rules say:

Wizard wrote:
Wizards perform a certain amount of spell research between adventures. Each time a character attains a new wizard level, he gains two spells of his choice to add to his spellbook. The two free spells must be of spell levels he can cast.
Spells Copied from Another's Spellbook or a Scroll wrote:
A wizard can also add a spell to his book whenever he encounters one on a magic scroll or in another wizard's spellbook. No matter what the spell's source, the wizard must first decipher the magical writing (see Arcane Magical Writings). Next, he must spend 1 hour studying the spell. At the end of the hour, he must make a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + spell's level). A wizard who has specialized in a school of spells gains a +2 bonus on the Spellcraft check if the new spell is from his specialty school. If the check succeeds, the wizard understands the spell and can copy it into his spellbook (see Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook).
Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook wrote:
Time: The process takes 1 hour per spell level. Cantrips (0 levels spells) take 30 minutes to record.

If you treat the free spells as an "Aha!" moment, you could possibly waive the "1 hour studying the spell", but I think you would still have to take the 1 hour/spell level to copy it into your spellbook, and then another 15 minutes to prepare it.


I DECLARE ANY DISCUSSION OF ORANGE PRISM IOUN STONES TO BE OVER.

If anyone wants to continue talking about that, they can necro RD's thread from 2010. It seems clear to me from that thread that they don't stack.

@RD, I took Craft Wondrous and of course have Scribe Scroll. But, I only actually have 410,000 to spend, and I'm allowed to spend half my gold crafting, which is why I put 615,000.

After allocating, though, I have spent about 250,000 on items I can't craft, so my total effective gold is now more like 570,000.


Most optimized mind controller will probably be a Kitsune Sorcerer, using the favored class bonus to maximize enchantment DCs. But then, for actually taking possession, you'll want the Magic Jar spell.


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You can always use Google with the key

Quote:
site:http://paizo.com/paizo/faq

For example, search:

Quote:
"scorching ray" site:http://paizo.com/paizo/faq

Although granted, it would be nice if the website had the feature included.


Sissyl wrote:
As a wizard, also consider getting more than a few orange prism ioun stones. They do stack.

Interesting, I would have assumed they don't stack. Is the idea that a "+1 bonus to caster level" would not stack, but "+1 caster level" stacks?


avr wrote:

A Goz Mask or similar is a good idea; or a Steel-Mind Cap. Depending on which you think you're most likely to need, they take the same slot.

Dweomer's Essence (several doses) sounds like an archmage's favorite consumable.

I don't think you can afford truesight goggles, but they'd be nice to have.

You've got permanent arcane sight. Is there some reason you haven't got permanent see invis./darkvision/tongues?

Goz Mask is tempting, but Steel-Mind Cap seems a little too weak considering the price. Confused is a pretty crummy condition. I am leaning towards a Cap of the Free Thinker for the head slot, but perhaps I'll see if I can graft on a Goz Mask.

Dweomer's Essence has been banned by my GM for being too OP. But, for anyone else out there, YES YES YES YES that stuff rocks.

Truesight Goggles were so so so so so tempting. But three reasons I decided against that luxury was (1) they're a budget-killer, (2) I'll be taking the Fortune Teller feat (mostly for fluff) and so I can cast True Seeing for free, and (3) I thought it might just annoy the GM since it's kind of an insta-win against lots of things.

Permanent See Invisibility was an oversight, thanks for catching that! Permanent Tongues I'm not taking because I'll be a Scroll Scholar and get automatic Permanent Comprehend Languages, and I'll know tons of languages anyway. Permanent Darkvision seems not terribly useful, since it can't see through Deeper Darkness, but I could be convinced.


Knowledge (arcana) allows you to:

Knowledge wrote:
Identify a spell that just targeted you - DC = 25 + spell level

You are walking down the road and feel a tingle. You're expecting your buddy to scry on you to check up, but are also afraid some ruffian is trying to paralyze and mug you. Can you make a Knowledge (arcana) check to tell what the spell is, and then, depending on the spell, decide whether or not to forgo your save?


Most importantly - he should have known before building the character that this is how your setting operates. Whose fault this is depends: on one end, if you have a custom setting and you knew he was rolling a lizardfolk and never told him it would be feared, that's your mistake, whereas on the other hand if you're playing in Golarion and he never told you his character plans then that's probably his bad.

Regardless, it's good to get character concepts up-front and give advance warning about this kind of stuff.


Some nice suggestions!

The Efficient Quiver is fantastic, that's just the sort of thing I am looking for! (I wish I had known about it when I was playing my oracle, since for spontaneous casters, it neatly solves that "perpetually holding a metamagic rod because you don't know when combat will start and I can't draw and use it in the same round" problem.)

Here's a current list I'm planning on:

(67K) Otherworldly Kimono
(36K) Headband of Vast Intelligence +6
(1K) Quick Runner's Shirt
(40K) Ring of Freedom of Movement
(36K) Belt of Mighty Constitution +6
(34K) Spell-Storing Determination +1 Silken Ceremonial Armor storing Piercing Frigid Touch (I figure this is a good way to avoid being full-attacked, by staggering the attacker after one hit, and if I do go down hopefully it can save my life.)
(20K) Luckstone
(137K) Tome of Clear Thought +5
(2K) Handy Haversack
(7.5K) Permanent Arcane Sight
(12.5K) Blessed Book
(30K) Orange Prism Ioun Stone
(2.5K) Ring of Sustenance
(30K) Staff of the Master

Any other suggestions?


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I'm putting together a 17th-level wizard, and have basically 615,000 to spend.

What equipment would your high-level wizard feel naked without?


Chess Pwn wrote:
RumpinRufus wrote:

Technically it's legal (although some GMs may rule that the attacker can continue their move after your readied action goes off, which is probably not RAW.) I explored this idea in this thread, which essentially came to the conclusion that it will only work to avoid one or two attacks.

RumpinRufus wrote:

It seems like the actual play would go like this (starting with Defender and Attacker 20 ft. apart):

1) Defender readies an attack.

2) Attacker moves and tries to attack.

3) Defender hits Attacker, moves back.

4) Attacker takes a move action to move 5 feet, adjacent to Defender.

5) Defender (now adjacent to Attacker) readies an attack.

6) Attacker tries to full attack.

7) Defender hit Attacker, moves back.

8) Attacker, as part of his full attack, takes a 5-foot-step to move adjacent to defender, and then gets all of his attacks.

I don't see any way for Defender to both make his attack and avoid getting full-attacked.

(If the attacker double-moved or charged, he can't do step 4, so you could possibly do the trick twice instead of just once.)

step 4 doesn't work ever, you've already use a move action to move to them and a standard action to attack them, you have no actions left to do the move action you propose for step 4.

You never actually used the attack action. The readied action rules state "Assuming he is still capable of doing so, he continues his actions once you complete your readied action." In this case, they are not still capable of attacking, so instead of continuing to attempt an attack action with no target, they now have a standard action to do as they please.


Technically it's legal (although some GMs may rule that the attacker can continue their move after your readied action goes off, which is probably not RAW.) I explored this idea in this thread, which essentially came to the conclusion that it will only work to avoid one or two attacks.

RumpinRufus wrote:

It seems like the actual play would go like this (starting with Defender and Attacker 20 ft. apart):

1) Defender readies an attack.

2) Attacker moves and tries to attack.

3) Defender hits Attacker, moves back.

4) Attacker takes a move action to move 5 feet, adjacent to Defender.

5) Defender (now adjacent to Attacker) readies an attack.

6) Attacker tries to full attack.

7) Defender hit Attacker, moves back.

8) Attacker, as part of his full attack, takes a 5-foot-step to move adjacent to defender, and then gets all of his attacks.

I don't see any way for Defender to both make his attack and avoid getting full-attacked.

(If the attacker double-moved or charged, he can't do step 4, so you could possibly do the trick twice instead of just once.)


Clebsch GM wrote:

I see the logic, but I don't think the author of the feat intended it to just enhance using the whip for damage. Whips only do 1d3 and attack as a ranged weapon (limited to 15 feet). If you exclude the benefit of using the whip for combat maneuvers without suffering an attack of opportunity, the feat is roughly equivalent to getting the ability to throw a dagger at up to 15 feet away without suffering attacks of opportunity. That's hardly a feat worth considering.

People don't use whips to do damage. People use whips to make disarm and trip combat maneuvers at a safe distance. The only drawback to doing that is you still have to watch out for attacks of opportunity when you try a combat maneuver on someone with a reach weapon. So avoiding those attacks of opportunity is the real benefit that I'm sure the feat is intended to provide.

It is essentially like getting a limited use improved disarm and improved trip. It only works when using a whip. That seems a reasonable and very useful and desirable feat, well balanced and just the sort of thing I would want for my character.

Would anyone seriously consider taking Whip Mastery if he or she knew it would only grant him or her whip attacks for damage without provoking attacks of opportunity? Keep in mind that as a weapon for doing damage, the whip, in addition to doing a measly 1d3 damage, attacks as a ranged weapon, which means no attacks of opportunities with the whip, no flanking, and no precision or sneak attack damage. If you want to do damage with a reach weapon or a ranged weapon, there are much more effective ways to achieve that than a whip.

First, where are you getting the idea that it attacks as a ranged weapon? It provokes as if attacking with a ranged weapon, but other than that it is a normal melee reach attack. It benefits from flanking, sneak attack, precision, etc. as normal.

Second, besides damage, it has multiple benefits: it negates the AoO from attacking, so for example, with Improved Trip you can make a trip attack without provoking at all, or without Improved Trip you can make a trip attack only provoking once instead of twice. Also, it qualified you to take Improved Trip Mastery which is a pretty great feat.


Oh, so the spell would never allow you, for example, to prepare a 7th-level spell by sacrificing a 4th-level spell slot? I suppose that is a lot more balanced than the way I interpreted it...


If you were to cast Mnemonic Enhancer twice, would that allow you to prepare 6 extra levels of spells?


Here's the text from UMD:

Use Magic Device wrote:
Emulate an Alignment: Some magic items have positive or negative effects based on the user's alignment. Use Magic Device lets you use these items as if you were of an alignment of your choice. You can emulate only one alignment at a time.

So the question comes down to whether a scroll of Speak With Dead is one of "these items", i.e., one that has "positive or negative effects based on the user's alignment."

I think there's a reasonable argument that the ability to cast a spell without a save is a "positive effect".


Speak With Dead reads:

Quote:
If the dead creature's alignment was different from yours, the corpse gets a Will save to resist the spell as if it were alive

If cast from a scroll, does this use the scroll creator's alignment, or the alignment of the person activating the scroll?

If it does use the alignment of the person activating the scroll, you can make a UMD check to emulate a different alignment, correct? So you can circumvent the saving throw by knowing the dead creature's alignment and making a DC 30 UMD check?


The Ring of Continuation does not indicate what happens if you take it off. Does it simply end the effect, similar to casting a personal spell? Or if you cast a spell, took it off, and then put it back on, would the spell still be in effect?


Could a ranged Sap Master build deal out ridiculous amounts of damage using blunt arrows? It seems like it could, especially with an Unchained Rogue.

If you went the Shatter Defenses route though, how can you reliably make opponents Shaken? The normal routes (Enforcer, Cornugon Smash) don't work with ranged weapons. The Omen trait is the best I've found, but it only works once/day.

Potential build:
Human Rogue (Swashbuckler archetype with longbow proficiency)
1: Sap Adept, Bludgeoner
2: Weapon Focus (composite longbow) [through Weapon Training]
3: Point-Blank Shot
4: Dazzling Display [through Combat Trick]
5: Sap Master
6: Shatter Defenses [through Combat Trick]
7: Precise Shot
8: Intimidating Prowess [through Strong Impression]
9: Rapid Shot

Any other good ways to make opponents shaken? Any ways to strengthen the build, perhaps multiclassing to get the archery feats sooner?

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