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King of Roses

Rotolutundro's page

342 posts. Alias of Krisam.


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Thread necromancy! I want in on this.

All in one game, some version of Night Below using 2e:

1. DMPC party informs us that we're going to take a quest, or else. Are they forcing us? No, other than tying our characters up and gagging them when they protest. But they're really nice DMPCs, we should love them and do as they say. And they can kick our asses, so we'd better do it. That's one kind of character hook, I guess...

2. DM rules that something our characters tried and failed at (bribing a supposedly friendly NPC with pie, which it's been established that this NPC will do anything for said pie - and the NPC is the only one that can help us out of our prison, but currently "doesn't feel like it") - with no rolls - is automatically successful when their DMPC does it, immediately after our failure ("Do you want pie, NPC?" "Pie, yay!" *fetches the key to our cells for the DMPC*).

3. We come upon a canyon full of evil fire giants who plan to destroy us and the outside world. For some reason their canyon is dry, despite being a few yards from a huge underground lake. My character wants to use the Dig spell to dig a furrow that will lead the lake into the canyon, flooding it. No "it can't flood it fast enough." No "that's not a good idea, for these reasons." No "the stone floor is too hard," or anything of that nature. Just, "you can't do that." Apparently the spell can't even be cast. So we all are forced into melee with the fire giants, during which we're captured and (of course) our bacon is saved by the DMPC party.

4. The DM informs us that we're actually NPCs in a game she's playing with some other people, who are the DMPCs. That's why we couldn't be allowed to have any effect on the campaign, NPCs or surroundings. She believes this information should make us proud to have been allowed to play with these characters.

Yeah, I had to ragequit after that.

Another DM, this from a solo game that went from pretending to use 2e rules to flat-out freeform (thus not so much rulings as general idiocy):

1. His main favorite move was "you lose control of your character, he does terrible things. Now you're back in control." Used sparingly, this might not have been annoying. As a regular event, it left me wondering why, when he had the ENTIRE REST OF THE WORLD to play, he felt compelled to control my character, too. My "favorite" example of this was when he said that due to being infected somehow with some kind of seed of evil/demonic possession, my character turned into a horrible demon and raped his girlfriend. And enjoyed it. That last detail is pretty much the final straw.

2. His second favorite move was "it was all a dream." Again, used sparingly, it wouldn't have been so frustrating. Used so often that basically half of everything my character did was annulled, though, it was... aggravating. (Note: the event above was not one of those times. Not that it would have been okay if it was.)

3. I actually really liked his NPCs... back when that's what they were. They were living, thinking beings reacting to their world in an interesting way, with interesting personalities. Then they became DMPCs. The difference, to me, is that NPCs are there to make the game interesting for the player. DMPCs are there to show off how cool the DM thinks he is, usually via nerfing, belittling, and/or beating up the PC(s). Towards the end, it seemed like he'd have been happier writing a book about his DMPCs - and, it seemed, casting my PC as a rather unpleasant sidekick.

4. Finally, this DM loooved to make short statements, then make you fish for more information or try to play off the complete lack of information he'd given you (we played online). He would post a short sentence someone had said, without mentioning who. He would have his characters mock plans I made based on what he had told me, because the truth was something else - which my character should have known, but didn't. Because... actually, I have no idea why. I think he was just a prick. This got really old, really fast, but he didn't seem to know what I was talking about when I asked him, politely, to tell me what my character would know about any given situation. From the environment, to which of the NPCs he knew well was talking to him, to basic knowledge about the world that anyone should know, to specific knowledge that only my character COULD know, and absolutely should... either getting more info was like pulling out teeth, or I got smacked down in-game for acting on incomplete information.

5. OK, bonus round: Towards the end, my character couldn't do anything right, despite being (supposedly) high-level. He could just about handle what an 8th level fighter could (he was a gish-type character); everything else either failed, was made irrelevant, or was impossible for whatever reason. I couldn't affect the world or the story at all, which I'd be less annoyed with if it were some railroad module game. But it was a freeform game. Turned me off them, for sure. At least if you're following a ruleset, the DM has to make an effort/explanation to nerf you, rather than waving his hand and doing it by fiat.

Non-directly-game-related rant related to the second story:

I actually really wanted to give this guy a chance to redeem himself, because his early games were a lot of fun, and he was one of my oldest friends (we're talking 1st grade)... but finally he just didn't show up at the agreed time for a meeting. And then the next, and the next... I even wrote him a physical letter asking him what was up, and he never answered. That was 6 years ago. I know he's okay, because he's on social media. He's apparently just more of a jackhole than I thought.

I guess he wouldn't have changed, anyway. He was, self-declared, proud that he'd never played in a game. Not one, in any system OR freeform. I'm not sure how ignorance of half the table experience is a virtue, but to him it is, I guess. It sure explains his DM faults (at least, they're faults in my eyes). I'll always wonder how that game's story would have ended, though. It was pretty entertaining, despite everything.

Whew, that got long. Thanks for letting me rant, it's cathartic.

Edit: Threw things under spoilers to not eat the whole page.

That's great, Haladir! I actually have the old print module lying somewhere, but I don't have the time to do a conversion. It brings back memories of the 80s. (The module, not having no time.) That module spawned the longest-running game I ever played in, though it was largely rule-less and based on how much the DM liked his drama. :P

I'd love to hear how it goes!

Whoops! I thought he was in The Hollow for some reason. Sorry!

Is there a particular format for the character sheet that you'd prefer, or is any character sheet with the pertinent information okay?

Also, I'm willing to switch with Crea-Asp, if no one else already has.

EDIT: I just realized I wasn't being very clear. By "format," I meant the format of a non-HeroLab sheet. I have a rtf file I usually use, is that all right?

Thanks, GM Shady! I'll start working on a profile.

I wonder how many gearforged minotaur avatars there are... ;)

Gah, halfway through my trip, one of my flights has been canceled. Looks like I'll be unable to respond Tuesday, as well. *grumble about staying at airports*

I'll be traveling Monday, so after tomorrow I won't be able to respond until Tuesday.

I'd like LoF in Pathfinder hardcover.

Thank you both for answering, and thanks for the links - very useful!

I'm not really familiar with 5e, but I love the old Ravenloft stuff from 2e. I understand Curse of Strahd is like an update of that older stuff. Has anyone out there converted the module to Pathfinder rules? Alternatively, are there good conversion guidelines out there somewhere? I've found some that go the other way, but they aren't official or anything.

Here are my 3 submissions - 2 melee fighters and a ranged fighter. I'd love to join the Margreve game.

Alennil Shandeir, Perunalian weapon master ranged fighter:

Alennil Shandeir
female human (Perunalian) fighter (weapon master) 1 CG
hgt: 5’8, wgt: 120 lbs
eyes: brown
hair: dark brown
age: 24


Alennil's hair falls in dark curls to her shoulders, and her brown skin suggests that her ancestors hailed from the Southlands. She has a warm smile, but more than a hint of sarcasm when dealing with those she feels are not that bright (such as men). Despite this cultural chauvinism, Alennil isn't as bigoted against men as most of her countrywomen. There is a determined glint in her eyes, warning that she will let nothing stand in the way of her goals. Educated and clever, she is a terror with a bow. She is outfitted for war, and stalks with the grace of a predator.

Background: Tragedy!
Alennil grew up a proud Perunalian, steeped in all the traditions and education that the country had to offer. Working as a respected bowyer in the countryside near the border, though she trained with weapons in order to defend the country, she never expected to have an exciting life; she married and settled down, and became the proud mother of a baby girl.

When her daughter, Shivya, was 8 years old, tragedy struck - a raiding party of slavers from across the border invaded her small town in a surprise nighttime raid, and overwhelmed all the defenders, including Alennil. They kidnapped a number of children, Shivya among them, and disappeared back over the border before the defenders could recover.

Furious, and frightened for her daughter's life, Alennil girded herself for war. She caused a scandal by leaving her home in her husband's hands rather than her sisters', and set off to track down and rescue her daughter and the other children, and bring them home.


Trade tongue, Nurian, Ankeshelian (read magic 1/day)

CLASS: fighter ( weapon master) 1
Str 13
Dex 17 (+2 race)
Con 10
Int 14
Wis 13
Cha 12

SENSES Perception +6

AC 17 Touch 13 FF 14 (Dex +3, chain shirt +4)

CMD 15

HP: 11 (1d10+1 fc)

Fort: +2
Ref: +3
Will: +1

Init: +3
Speed: 30'

longsword +2 (1d8+1, 19-20) S
dagger +2 (1d4+1, 19-20) P/S

dagger +4 (1d4+1, 19-20) P/S
shortbow +4 (1d6, x3) 60' P

BAB: +1 CMB: +2

Armor expert (combat)
Seeker (social)

Fast learner
Point blank shot
Polymath (Guide to the crossroads): +1 to all Knowledges, all Knowledges class skills

Skills: +2 fighter +2 Int +1 human +1 fc= 6
Craft: bowyer +2
Knowledge: geography +7
Knowledge: local +7
Knowledge: nature +7
Knowledge: nobility +7
Perception +6
Survival +5

Worn equipment:
chain shirt
arrows x40

Carried equipment:
silk rope 50'
rations x7
flint and steel
torch x4
hooded lantern
oil x3

Jhaele Jhalur, Magdar paladin of the Order of the Undying Sun:

Jhaele Jhalur
female human (Magdar) paladin (Order of the Undying Sun) 1 LG
hgt: 5’6 wgt: 150 lbs
eyes: green
hair: black
age: 24

theme song

Jhaele has the typical good looks of the Magdar people, with long black hair and sparkling green eyes. She is quick to smile, but equally quick to stand up against what wrongs she finds. Never preachy, she hopes to inspire others with her example. She doesn't know when to quit, and her determination to see things done right is dogged.

She carries the white-and-yellow plumed helmet and blue cloak of the Order of the Undying Sun, though she has no horse. While she is humble enough to walk, she is proud of her calling, and seeks to show those who would slight her Order or Khors of the error of their ways by being everything a paladin is meant to be - kind, gracious, and righteous. However, she also has a tendency to drink a bit too much.

Background: Childhood dream come true.
Jhaele was born to a family of vintners in Zsigistad, and raised on stories of the righteous valor of Khors. They sparked a flame in her young heart, and she dreamt of joining the knights of the Undying Sun, though she knew it was only a foolish dream. Still, she strove to live by the tenets of Khors as she understood them, using her unusual strength to defeat bullies and defend the other children from any perceived wrongs. It seemed as though Khors smiled on her, for she never got into trouble worse than her ability to solve, despite her sometimes reckless ways.

Her family took their barrels of wine to a Kingsmeet for sale, and she quickly made friends among the children of Cronepisht. They would try to reach vantages to view the tournaments, clambering up inside the tribunals to view the knights between the feet of the mighty. One such noble took offense at the children climbing about "above their station," and would have beaten one that he caught, but Jhaele's strength surprised him, and she forced the noble back with nothing but a stick to serve as a staff. She didn't beat the man in return, but shamed him by asking what good hurting those weaker than him could serve.

Her actions drew the notice of one of the knights, who had seen the exchange. One thing led to another, and soon he had spoken with her parents, and taken her on as a squire. Jhaele was stunned; it was a dream come true! She said her tearful goodbyes to her family there at the Kingsmeet, and left with the knight to train at Khorsburg.

Beyond her innate sense of right and wrong, Jhaele also had a taste for the wine her city had produced. She liked it a bit too much; it was a struggle to keep from overindulging. Though she passed the knight's test, she shamed her mentor with an unfortunate bout of drunkenness. Penitent, she vowed to roam Midgard as a knight-errant, righting wrongs until she had earned a place at her mentor's table, and forgiveness.

Still, the wine was so good...

Khors, Lada, Mavros-Perun (and St. Bacca, demigod of wine)

Trade tongue, Magdar, Enochian

CLASS: paladin 1
Str 16
Dex 14
Con 10
Int 13
Wis 10
Cha 16 (+2 race)

SENSES Perception +0

AC 16 Touch 12 FF 14 (Dex +2, chain shirt +4)

CMD 16

HP: 11 (1d10+1 fc)

Fort: +2
Ref: +2
Will: +2

Init: +2
Speed: 30'

falchion +4 (2d4+3, 18-20) S

nothing at the moment

BAB: +1 CMB: +4

Armor expert (combat)
White Knight (Magdar, regional): You have traveled the world as a knight-errant in search of adventure. You gain a +2 trait bonus to one of the following: Knowledge (geography), Knowledge (local), or Knowledge (nobility) checks. Your chosen skill (picked when you take this trait) is a class skill for you (Knowledge: local)

Fast learner
Power attack

Skills: +2 paladin +1 Int +1 human +1 fc= 5
Diplomacy +7
Heal +4
Knowledge: local +3 (untrained)
Knowledge: nobility +5
Knowledge: religion +5
Sense motive +4

Worn equipment:
chain shirt

Carried equipment:

Baerloth Ammon, gearforged (tauric engine) clockwork warrior fighter:

Baerloth Ammon
male gearforged (tauric engine) fighter (clockwork warrior) 1 TN
hgt: 7’5, wgt: 300 lbs
eyes: glowing red
skin: polished brass
age: ?

Armored in polished brass and bronze, Baerloth's eyes glow a dark red, as though from internal fire banked to coals. Runes are engraved in his massive horns and shining hide, and the quiet clicking of his ever-turning gears can be heard when all is silent. Huge and hulking, Baerloth has smooth grace for one so large, and is surprisingly intelligent to those who expect little of either a gearforged or a minotaur. When at rest, he stands perfectly still, content to observe the world around him without such living quirks as looking around or shifting his weight.

Background: Amnesia
Baerloth's earliest memories are from being repaired in Kyprion; the memory gears concerning his origin had been knocked loose and lost somewhere in the past. Naturally curious, the tauric engine delayed seeking out the past, instead repaying the minotaur who had repaired him by fighting in the arena, winning bets for his presumed rescuer. When the minotaur grew old and died, Baerloth considered his debt paid, and departed (much to the consternation of the minotaur's grown children, who considered him a, so to speak, cash cow).

Possessing nothing but his name and weapons, he evaded their misguided attempts to recapture him and set out to track down his missing memory gears, or at least learn of his past. Hints drew him toward the city of Zobeck, but his natural curiosity and lack of the pressure of time often sidetracked him along the way.


Trade tongue, Rue-Thothka, Machine Speech, Dwarvish

CLASS: fighter (clockwork warrior) 1
Str 18 (+2 race)
Dex 14
Con ---
Int 14
Wis 10
Cha 10

SENSES Perception +0, darkvision, low-light vision

AC 18 Touch 12 FF 16 (Dex +2, natural +2, chain shirt +4)

CMD 17

HP: 11 (1d10+1 fc)

Fort: +2
Ref: +2
Will: +0

Init: +2
Speed: 30'

greatsword +5 (2d6+4, 19-20) S


BAB: +1 CMB: +5

Adamant: +1 natural armor (combat)
Charger (regional)

Power attack
Rust-proof armor (Guide to the crossroads): +2 to Escape artist, rust attacks reduced by 1d6, DR5/acid

Skills: +2 fighter +2 Int = 4
Craft: clockwork +8
Escape artist +4
Intimidate +6
Knowledge: engineering +6
Survival +4

Worn equipment:
chain shirt

Carried equipment:
belt pouch
alchemist's fire

So as not to clutter up the other thread, I'll answer here: I've seen 3 different implementations of gearforged, including the gearborn, so I wasn't sure how mechanical they are in your game. Do you use gear points?

Interested! Though I am a bit sadfaced that the ranger slots have been taken. Would a Perunalian bow fighter overlap too much? Otherwise, I'm thinking of a Magdar paladin of the Undying Sun, or perhaps the Order of the Storm, but with ambitions. :D I'd love to play the Margreve game.

This is definitely interesting. I have three concepts I'd love to try already. How would you be handling gearforged characters? I don't have HeroLab, so I don't know how it supports them.

Subject of study would also work for Ravimir. Or Making good on promises, I guess. Say the word. :)

Just posting to make sure you know that Ravimir's profile is finished. Fingers crossed!

Here's Ravimir so far. I like to let a character develop during a game (so his most interesting deeds are ahead of him, not behind), but this is the rudimentary background for him. I'll have to start crunching tomorrow, but I'm definitely thinking ranger.

Dot! I'm thinking ranger off the top of my head, but maybe I'll think of something more occultish.

These two links suggest ways to deal with extra party members (and ramp up difficulty):
The math behind CR, XP rewards for fun and profit.

Kobold Quarterly had something called "Death Feats," which are feats you qualify for once you've died and been brought back. I thought they were really intriguing. They were in issue #10. There's also a link to some discussion here.

Maybe not 100% useful in this case, but...

Welcome to the boards, Traveller Elbin! Pathfinder is loads of fun, I hope you enjoy it! :)

Malgrivner the unchained rogue:


male human unchained rogue 1 CG
hgt: 6’0, wgt: 150 lbs
eyes: green
hair: black
age: 24

Taller and sturdier than a Varisian, but smaller and more slender than an Ulfen, Malgrivner enjoys the benefits of his good looks - with dark hair and green eyes, he was an unusual sight in the North, less so among southerners, but with his brimming confidence and wolfish grin, he is rarely lonely. He speaks with no accent, but his cloak is the pelt of a wolf, complete with wolf's-head-hood, and his shortswords bear the runes and wolf-head pommel of Ulfen blades. He wears his chain shirt comfortably, but does not have the look of a mercenary; his black boots are worn from long travels.

Born in the Thanelands, Malgrivner was marked an outsider from birth. No blue eyes and fair hair to share with his father or mother, it was whispered that his mother had trysted with a Varisian from a passing caravan, and as he grew, both his body and nature seemed to confirm it. Where an Ulfen man was towering and sturdy, he was merely tall and slender (though not so delicate of build as a Varisian). Where the Ulfen boys were concerned with strength and honor, Malgrivner was relatively weak and quick to grab what advantage he could - in fact, he was quick and agile like no other in his homestead, and his tricky ways often landed him in hot water. If a pie was stolen, or someone had been convinced to jump off a roof with two fistfuls of chickens in an attempt to fly, or someone's boots had been greased before a wrestling match, or the children had been frightened by a story of giants and trolls, you had to look no farther than Malgrivner's easy grin to find the culprit.

No warrior he, but ever a troublemaker; he counted on his mother's weary pleas and, later, his rugged good looks to get him out of any scrapes, but his lack of good sense eventually got him into trouble with the jarl himself, whose daughter's bed he was caught in - a daughter betrothed to another man, from another clan. Things looked grim for him, but his best friend, Thigrymner, convinced the other youths to go on a raid that very day, and they took Malgrivner with them. Once their looting was done, Thigrymner put a hand on Malgrivner's shoulder, and apologized. "You can't come back. The jarl will kill you. I'm sorry." Then he cold-cocked Malgrivner, leaving him behind in the south countries to save his life.

Malgrivner was bitter about his fate, but not at Thigrymner - no, it was the jarl whose fur had been rubbed the wrong way! Unjust that it leave Malgrivner far from all that he knew. Rebelliously, he joined a caravan of Varisians in their travels, and learned to be even more clever than he'd thought he already was - and to love wandering the open road. It was like he'd never breathed free before he'd been evicted from the Thanelands. Every new sight was an epiphany; every new city an adventure.The caravan led him far and wide, eventually to the far southern kingdom of Taldor...

10-minute background:
-Step 1: Write at least 5 concept elements that you feel are important to your image of the character. These can be a concept overview, a list of important life events, a physical description, a personality profile...whatever you need to get an image in your mind.
- Concept: A sly troublemaker is seeking a glorious fortune, so he can return home triumphant.
- outcast from the Ulfen clan he wishes to return to
- insufferable, but in a good way
- a mix of Ulfen and Varisian blood, giving him his unique blended physique - and a sad excuse for facial hair, by Ulfen standards
- Carries Ulfen shortswords, and never fights fair if he can avoid it

-Step 2: List at least 2 goals for the character. At least one of these goals should be one that the character has, while another should be one that you, as a player, want to see developed over the course of the game.
- PC: to return to his clan as a gloried hero
- Player: to develop friendships and play the insufferable rake

-Step 3: List at least 2 secrets about your character. One is a secret the character knows, one is a secret that involves him but that he is not actually aware of yet. This will help me in creating plots that center around your character. I will also be creating a third secret which you as a player will not be aware of, so expect some surprises!
- Unknown: Malgrivner's father was a skinwalker.
- Known: While sneaking about the homestead (and into Sterk's chambers), Malgrivner overheard Sterk praying to a demon lord for his strength, and the strength of his men. Perhaps that is why Sterk always wins his challenges... and his raids are always successful.

-Step 4: Describe at least 3 people that are tied to the character. Two of them are friendly to the character, one is hostile. <- Unlike other games, this AP makes it difficult to use character-tied NPCs (won't say why not to spoiler anything) so this is optional.
- his mother, Hilde: After having embarrassed Malgrivner's "father" with the boy's birth, he divorced her, and she raised the boy alone. Forever chasing after him to behave, despite his lack of concern for a slap or smack, she is long-suffering but never ashamed of him, and she loves him fiercely. She likely had something to do with Thigrymner's idea to take Malgrivner out of harm's way.
- his best friend, Thigrymner: A stocky, fair-haired man who enjoys Malgrivner's pranks (except the ones on him), he has stepped between Malgrivner and harm more than once - a brother in all but blood. Unlike Malgrivner, he always does as he thinks is best, rather than what he thinks is fun.
- the jarl, Sterk: Named for his strength, Sterk is a traditionalist who has no patience for boys who will not fight fair or young men who ignore custom and propriety. He has tolerated Malgrivner until now, but on the matter of his daughter there can be no doubt - should Malgrivner return, he will surely be killed.

-Step 5: Describe at least 3 mannerisms, or quirks that your character has. They don't have to be elaborate, but they should provide some context and flavor.
- Malgrivner has a full-blooded Varisian's wanderlust, and chafes at staying in any one place for long.
- Arrogant as any Ulfen, or Taldan for that matter, Malgrivner is an incurable showoff.
- Malgrivner loves stories, and has memorized all the ones he's heard.
- A loyal friend, but a smart-ass.

Common (Skald)
Common (Taldane)
Giant (extra from trait)
Varisian (extra from Linguistics)


CLASS: Rogue 1

Str 12
Dex 16
Con 12
Int 13
Wis 10
Cha 13

SENSES Perception +4

AC 17 Touch 13 FF 14 (+3 Dex, +4 armor)

CMD 14

HP: 10 (1d8+1 Con +1 fc)

Fort: +1
Ref: +5
Will: +0

Init: +3
Speed: 30'

shortsword +3 (1d6+1, 19-20) Weapon finesse
dagger +3 (1d4+1, 19-20) Weapon finesse

dagger +3 (1d4+1, 19-20) 10'

SA: 1d6
TWF: -2/-2

BAB: +0 CMB: +1

Traits, Feats and Skills:

Racial traits: human

Armor expert (combat)
Restless wayfarer (campaign)

Two-weapon fighting
Fast learner
Weapon finesse

Acrobatics +6
Appraise +5
Bluff +5
Diplomacy +5
Disable device +7
Escape artist +6
Knowledge: geography+6
Knowledge: local +6
Linguistics +2
Perception +4
Sleight of hand +6
Stealth +6
Use magic device +5


Worn equipment:
chain shirt
explorer's outfit
belt pouch
flint and steel

Carried equipment:
winter blanket
sunrod x2
trail rations x10
gold remaining: 4gp

Like Frejya, I welcome comments!

Dot for interest! DM, I can primarily post on evenings (European time) and weekends, is that a problem?

Does Thalassogen's generator still exist? The link doesn't seem to go anywhere. :(

Just found this link and wanted to share. :)

The Charm of Swarms

Holy...! I would LOVE to apply for this game, but I just got a new job, and I don't know how much free time I'll have once it starts.

Why can't I be paid to play pbps? I'd be a QC officer. Yeah, that's the ticket.

I hope your group has a long and illustrious career together! ...And that you'll be open to new recruits later on... just in case. ;)

So, my players didn't finish off all the critters on the Hambley farm, and that means more farmers will succumb until there's a raid on Sandpoint. Does anyone have suggestions for how I can stagger the raiders into manageable chunks in interesting ways? Or, perhaps, know of a module I could substitute for the event?

The party isn't that attached to Sandpoint thanks to their ongoing feud with Vinder, and some other... interesting diplomatic moments they've had. I'm also trying to think of ways to get them more friendly with the locals.


This is interesting. Wish I'd heard of it before my players redeemed Nualia.

Good advice, Wesh. Thanks. I did ask her about what she felt would be a goal for her character previously, which is when she mentioned her sister, but maybe I'm going about it in the wrong way. Talking to the player more specifically about what she wants out of the game will probably help.

Gulthor: The game is pbem (and by PM while she's away from the rest of the party), so she's not exactly in the spotlight, she just has a chance to do things alone. Still, maybe that's not what she wants to do. I'll ask.


My players stay out, please.:

I'm running a game where the rogue has been kidnapped from the party and taken to meet her long-lost sister, now working for the villain in the enemy's fey army camp. Since that was one of the character's main goals, I thought it would result in some fun RP for the player, but her character has responded the same way she has responded to almost all other challenges - she withdrew into herself and is refusing to interact with her sister.

I'm kind of at my wit's end in thinking of ways to get this player/character more engaged with the story and the game. I do have one last trick up my sleeve, which is to have her sister kill an NPC the character clings to as a crutch, refusing to interact with the rest of the party. I'm hoping that a tale of revenge will prove more entertaining to the player than the mystery of what happened to her sister does, since she doesn't seem that interested in finding out (or even grilling her about the enemy's strengths and weaknesses, or doing other spy stuff).

Alternatively, she may forgive her sister, which opens the door to her redeeming someone from the enemy camp, which might also be interesting. I was planning on waiting for the party to catch up to her so they could witness (and join in on) this turn of events, but maybe it should happen while she's alone? It might be kind of badass for her to deal with it and escape on her own... but I have no idea if she'd actually try that. OK, I suspect she wouldn't.

I guess maybe I need an idea for a mini-adventure or hook or something that can engage the character to DO something. The player doesn't seem to be unhappy, and she's stuck with our group for over 10 years, so I really want it to pay off with something fun for her character to do while she's alone. While the rogue is technically a prisoner, she has the run of the army camp and the commander's tent. Can anyone give me good ideas for events that might happen that would be interesting for a shy, reticent character in her situation?

I'm not sure it's 100% relevant, but there's always the Santiago AP by EN Publishing. Though, it got discontinued after the 4th adventure.

And who could ignore the Legendary Planet AP? Not my cup of tea, but it's probably more up your alley.

Sorry if this isn't what you meant you were looking for.

If two paladins set each other on fire, how fast do they burn down to their socks? (Also, do they fall?)

Just kidding. I'd love to see Legacy of Fire updated, too.

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I agree with Nearyn. Killing sleeping, and thus harmless, people is evil. If you're concerned with alignment changes, though, I'd say it would take a pattern of such behavior to change an alignment towards evil... though a paladin would still have trouble justifying such a cowardly act to his/her god.

Tangent: I also don't equate chaotic behavior with evil behavior. Chaotic people simply value individual choice above abstract values such as "the greater good," while Lawful people believe that life is improved by placing your trust in laws that govern behavior, to the benefit of all who live by them.

People who play Chaotic Neutral characters as necessarily crazy/evil/downright stupid/disruptive drive me nuts. Especially evil. To me, evil is selfishness taken to an extreme. The sort of behavior that says, "my pleasure/convenience is more important than your pain/distress/life." Like the convenience of killing people in their sleep, rather than making sure they're actually foes first. /tangent

Congratulations to all who got in! Happy gaming!

DM, please add me to the list of people who would like feedback. Thanks!

It's on page 15 of the AE, under Goblins In The Streets.

So... Azaelan is of Chelish blood, but not actually a Chelaxian, I think?

I actually considered going with a ranged... well, ranger. I thought the mages would handle the ranged stuff, and also hadn't realized there were no real ranged martials. I could retool, if necessary.

Also: I could have sworn it was "Chelish." I think I've seen it elsewhere. Maybe it's a regional dialect. :P

Since there are so many Tricksters, I decided to switch again and go the Champion route.

Azaelan Rhagos:

Azaelan Rhagos
male tiefling fighter 2/ranger (demonslayer) 1 CN
hgt: 6'7 wgt: 180 lbs
eyes: red
hair: black
age: 65

Azaelan can never pass for human; his mouth is full of the fangs of a carnivore, his nails more claw than human, his ears are jaggedly pointed, and his catlike eyes blaze with hellfire, to speak nothing of the long, barbed tail that twitches behind him - but more than that, an aura of unease accompanies him whereever he goes, as though Hell watches those who come too close. His inky hair is left to do as it will, and thus is most often a wild tangle that hangs to his shoulders. His narrow face is suspicious, his lips most often kept in a sardonic twist. His rangy frame is stretched, his proportions just slightly wrong to be human. Despite his clearly inhuman nature, his features are quite handsome, and those who fancy a touch of danger have had brief flings with him, though they never last longer than a night. Thus does he pay tribute now and again to Belial, as well as Asmodeus.

Azaelan wears a fine chain shirt under his cloak, and a serrated greatsword on his back that has the dark, matte look of iron rather than steel. A club carved with strange runes and sigils rests beside it, and over them is slung a powerful bow.


Treated as something other his whole life, Azael is intimately familiar with both humility and arrogance. In him they have mixed, making him both confident in his abilities and destiny, and acutely aware that he does not belong, that he is a monster. Used to rejection, he has steeled himself against growing too fond of anyone or anything. It is his most private wish to return to his family and be welcomed, for all that he is a bastard. He keeps his family's treasured signet ring on a chain around his neck, under his clothes.

Banished from Cheliax when he was born to a noblewoman with features not only tiefling, but distinctly not those of her husband, Azael was raised near the Worldwound, amid Chelish servants who both knew of his blood (at least, on his mother's side), and of the circumstances of his birth, thanks to gossip. Raised in an atmosphere of both respect for his lineage and contempt for his nature, Azael showed an early aptitude for blades (much to the woe of the local bullies), and was soon sent off to patrol the Worldwound before he decided to make his anger more lethal.

Long trained to withstand the armies of the Abyss, Azael's position was overrun in the surge that brought Deskari's forces pouring out of the Worldwound. He escaped, but had nowhere to go; only the hopeful whispers of refugees huddled around their campfires told him of a meeting in Absalom, and directed him away from a life of savage banditry. Now he dreams of returning to Cheliax, not as a supplicant, but as a hero.


Common, Infernal, Abyssal, Orc


RACE: Tiefling
+2 Dexterity, +2 Intelligence, –2 Charisma: Tieflings are quick in body and mind, but are inherently strange and unnerving.

Native Outsider: Tieflings are outsiders with the native subtype.

Medium: Tieflings are Medium creatures and receive no bonuses or
penalties due to their size.

Normal Speed: Tieflings have a base speed of 30 feet. (*See fiendish sprinter)

Darkvision: Tieflings see in the dark for up to 60 feet.

Prehensile Tail: Many tieflings have tails, but some have long, f lexible tails that can be used to carry items. While they cannot wield weapons with their tails, they can use them to retrieve small, stowed objects carried on their persons as a swift action. This racial trait replaces fiendish sorcery.

Fiendish Sprinter: Some tief lings have feet that are more bestial than human. Whether their feet resemble those
of a clawed predator or are the cloven hooves common to many of their kind, tieflings with this trait gain a 10-foot
racial bonus to their speed when using the charge, run, or withdraw actions. This racial trait replaces skilled.

Spell-Like Ability: Tieflings can use darkness once per day as a spell-like
ability. The caster level for this ability equals the tiefling’s class level.

Fiendish Resistance: Tieflings have cold resistance 5, electricity resistance 5,
and fire resistance 5.

Favored class: fighter

CLASS: Fighter (<--Favored)/Ranger (Demonslayer )
Str 17
Dex 13
Con 17
Int 15
Wis 11
Cha 9

SENSES darkvision 60'

AC 17 Touch 11 FF 16 (+1 Dex, +6 breastplate)

CMD 17

HP: 33 (d10+3)

Fort: +9
Ref: +4
Will: +1

Init: +1

MW cold iron greatsword +7 (2d6+3, 19-20) S
PAFF +7 (2d6+6)
(MW) darkwood greatclub +7 (1d10+3, x2) B (considered MW)
PAFF +7 (1d10+6)
MW dagger +7 (1d4+3, 19-20) P/S
PA +6 (1d4+6)

MW dagger +5 (1d4+3, 19-20) 10' P/S
MW comp.longbow (+3 Str) +5 (1d8+3, x3) 110' P

FE: +2 bonus on weapon attack and damage rolls against evil outsiders

BAB: +3 CMB: +6

Class abilities:

Class abilities: Fighter
Bonus feats
Bravery +1

Class abilities: Ranger (demonslayer)
Favored enemy: evil outsiders +2
Wild empathy

Skills, traits and feats:

Bluff +2 (+2 vs. evil outsiders)
Intimidate +8
Knowledge: dungeoneering +6 (+2 vs. evil outsiders)
*Knowledge: engineering +3 (+2 vs. evil outsiders)
*Knowledge: geography +6 (+2 vs. evil outsiders)
*Knowledge: history +3 (+2 vs. evil outsiders)
Knowledge: nature +6 (+2 vs. evil outsiders)
*Knowledge: nobility +5 (+2 vs. evil outsiders)
Knowledge: planes +8 (+2 vs. evil outsiders, +3 vs. demons)
Perception +6 (+2 vs. evil outsiders)
Sense motive +0 (+2 vs. evil outsiders)
Stealth +6
Survival +6 (+2 vs. evil outsiders, +1 track)

*Background skill
**May use Knowledge skills untrained to ID favored enemy: evil outsiders, with a +2 bonus

Demon hunter - religion
Demon-proof mind - regional (Demon hunter's handbook)

Furious focus
Intimidating prowess
Power attack

I've decided to go with a goblin alchemist (fire bomber) instead of a gunslinger. I'm leaning toward the Trickster path, but I have to study it some more. Sheet pending!

Okay, I couldn't resist:

Try #1:
4d6 ⇒ (4, 1, 3, 3) = 11 = 10
4d6 ⇒ (3, 5, 1, 6) = 15 = 14
4d6 ⇒ (6, 4, 1, 4) = 15 = 14
4d6 ⇒ (2, 5, 5, 3) = 15 = 13
4d6 ⇒ (3, 2, 3, 2) = 10 = 8
4d6 ⇒ (5, 4, 1, 4) = 14 = 13
14 points

Try #2:
4d6 ⇒ (4, 4, 6, 6) = 20 = 16
4d6 ⇒ (6, 1, 2, 4) = 13 = 12
4d6 ⇒ (6, 1, 1, 1) = 9 = 8
4d6 ⇒ (2, 2, 1, 2) = 7 = 6
4d6 ⇒ (5, 6, 5, 2) = 18 = 16
4d6 ⇒ (5, 5, 2, 4) = 16 = 14
Not sure what the 6 is worth, but pretty sure it puts this under 20 points.

Try #3:
4d6 ⇒ (1, 4, 6, 5) = 16 = 15
4d6 ⇒ (4, 6, 3, 3) = 16 = 13
4d6 ⇒ (5, 6, 3, 3) = 17 = 14
4d6 ⇒ (6, 4, 3, 1) = 14 = 13
4d6 ⇒ (1, 1, 3, 4) = 9 = 8
4d6 ⇒ (6, 3, 1, 1) = 11 = 10
16 points

Try #4:
4d6 ⇒ (3, 5, 3, 5) = 16 = 13
4d6 ⇒ (4, 2, 5, 2) = 13 = 11
4d6 ⇒ (4, 1, 3, 4) = 12 = 11
4d6 ⇒ (5, 6, 6, 2) = 19 = 17
4d6 ⇒ (3, 3, 4, 4) = 14 = 11
4d6 ⇒ (6, 5, 6, 2) = 19 = 17
32 points - I'll take it!

GM, would you be willing to consider the gungineer class from Into The Breach - The Gunslinger by Flying Pincushion Games? It's a fun tinkering class that makes your gun modular. Otherwise, I'm going to work on a gunslinger concept.

Dot for interest/lurking in this campaign, though I probably won't submit a character.


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Squirrel_Dude wrote:
I'd like to see some conversions/reissues of previous APs like Legacy of Fire and Curse of the Crimson throne to Pathfinder as they did with Rise of the Runelords, too.

HEAR HEAR! I would LOVE that.

Not too wild about another edition, though.

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alexd1976 wrote:

I also thought elementals had intelligence and souls...

Binding them into golems and such seems pretty rude to me, if not evil.

I wouldn't like being stripped from my home plane and forced to do some pansy wizards bidding.

Like Aahz? ;D

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Pixie, the Leng Queen wrote:

That is reckless immaturity and naivety that gets people killed for no reason at all. In the face of a disease with no cure that turns people into monsters if full gestation happens what do you expect the Paladin to do? Stand around hoping for a miracle and just let the guy suffer in horrid agony as he is slowly turned into an inhuman monstrosity?

Honestly, if anything, THAT is the cruel and heartless path.

Why, hello, Carol.

If you murder someone for your own expedience, it's still murder. The choice to die should always be your own. THEN it would not be murder, but a charitable act. "Death by paladin," if you will.

Gone again! Any chance of another re-upload?

Here is Mruf.

I didn't know if you'd prefer any one of my ideas, so I went ahead and fleshed all of them out a little.

Rikkek, ratfolk rogue:

Stolen from his nest in a small town in Varisia along with the rest of his siblings, Rikkek doesn't know his parents' fate, though he suspects the worst. The slavers took him and his brethren to Kaer Maga, where they were sold off, one by one. Rikkek never saw his siblings again.

He was sold to a high-standing family in Bis, where he served at the pleasure of petulant children who loved to make him fight. The more "ratlike" he acted, the better they liked it. Thus, he cultivated a down-and-dirty fighting style, ganging up on others whenever he could. [Trait: Dirty Fighter]

Rikkek never gave up his dream of freedom, but had little hope of attaining it... until one night, the Freemen raided the compound he lived in, and took him and his fellow slaves with them to the Bottoms. [Trait: Freed slave] Rikkek was so overwhelmed with gratitude and inspiration that he, too, swore to free slaves whenever he could, and joined the Freemen. Now he is a fearless freedom fighter with a strong sense of vigilante justice.

Mruf, catfolk urban ranger:

Mruf was born a slave in Kaer Maga. Destined for arena fights, he was trained from childhood to fight. [Trait: Armor expert] When he grew old enough to enter the arena, he was often pitted against gangs of orcs or the undead to show off his "fierce and feral nature." Yet, behind the scenes, there was not so much animosity among the fighters. They knew their lot was to fight, and to die. Mruf had little hope of anything else.

Mruf's ferocious fighting gained him many fans, but only one who cared enough to barter for his freedom. As soon as he was freed, Mruf took off running, but his benefactor tracked him down easily, and offered Mruf more than freedom: a life, and a home. The catfolk couldn't refuse.

Mruf was trained in the ways of the Duskwardens, and in time joined them, with a newfound sense of community and self-reliance. [Trait: Regional recluse] Now he patrols the Halflight Path, wishing to repay his benefactor's belief in him.

Jargar, Shoanti unbreakable fighter:

Native to the Cinderlands, Jargar was mocked by his quah for his lack of speed, horse training and riding prowess, perhaps in jealousy of his coveted Emberstorm tattoo. [Trait: Auspicious tattoo] In any case, he could never become the burn-rider he wished to be with his total lack of animal empathy. He turned his back on his Quah and went to Kaer Maga, where he earned a living as a mercenary among strangers. He had talent at that, at least, and though his temper was hot, he knew how to keep his enemies at bay. [Trait: Threatening defender]

Now Jargar sells his service to the highest bidder, bitter about his past and looking for honor to upweigh the slights he felt he has been dealt.

OK, I've narrowed down the last trait to either Underworld Explorer (if the party lacks Survival), Local Know-it-all, or Freed Slave (+1 Fort, for the abuse he survived).

Alternately, a catfolk duskwarden (urban ranger) might be fun... Maybe an ex-arena fighter slave paying back the one who bought his freedom.

traits: armor expert, regional recluse

In combat: rowr fight! Ranged or melee, as the party needs most

Out of combat: I was thinking some kind of Diplomacy would be interesting, but I probably won't have the points to swing that kind of Charisma if he has to go melee, which seems likely in such close spaces. His connection to the Duskwardens could prove an interesting plot hook, though, and he would still have extensive local knowledge.

DM Sound, would you have a preference for either character?

OR, if you prefer a core race, a Shoanti unbreakable fighter, multiclassing into barbarian, could be a mercenary who left the Sklar-Quah due to being mocked for his inability to handle horses, and thus become a burn-rider. He would not be a native of Kaer Maga, unlike the other two. He's a grumpy one. ;)

Traits: Auspicious Tattoo and Threatening Defender.

In combat: HULK SMASH

Out of combat: Intimidation and quick judgements. ;P He'd also have Survival.

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