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Lolth

Rogue Eidolon's page

Goblin Squad Member. RPG Superstar 2013 Marathon Voter, 2014 Star Voter. Pathfinder Adventure Path, Card Game, Roleplaying Game Subscriber. FullStarFullStarFullStarFullStarFullStar Venture-Lieutenant, Massachusetts—Boston. 3,241 posts (3,359 including aliases). 6 reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 12 Pathfinder Society characters. 3 aliases.


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It really depends on your playstyle with the eidolon. If you always leave it out, it's not as useful.


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I agree with John that it's a very attractive option, especially now that you can take it 9 times with a half-elf and then start buying evolution points once you have it down to 1 round.


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Only counting AP play and not PFS. Square brackets for completion, parens for partially through a part of the AP:

Rise of the Runelords [1-6]: Over 20 deaths, not counting ones reversed by breath of life.

Curse of the Crimson Throne [1-5]: No deaths, but close to TPKing more than once and only won an otherwise unwinnable fight due to arbitrarily lucky discovery selection by the alchemist when leveling up between days of a dungeon.

Council of Thieves [1-6]: 1 death. Blitzkrieg surprise attack energy drain with like 6 guys with low to-hit but very high d20 rolls.

Kingmaker [1-4): 1 death from a melee druid against a vicious eidolon, GM gave us each one time to be maimed instead of killed to start because she expected more, so he was maimed.

Jade Regent [1-4): 5 PC deaths, 2 NPC allies, and one animal companion type.

Shattered Star [1-6]: No deaths

These are mostly the same group, though 3 different GMs.


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It's actually extremely powerful when the party outnumbers the enemy or when a higher percentage of the enemy's CR is tied up into one creature than the percentage of the party tied up in the sorcerer. Otherwise, it's not very useful, but since the above situation tends to happen a lot, it's one of the most powerful level 1 sorcerer bloodline powers. It's particularly devastating against solo foes, but having seen fey sorcerers in action, it's quite strong in a variety of situations. Granted, if your save DC is unassailable, then it's better to use a spell with a longer disable duration.

***** Venture-Lieutenant, Massachusetts—Boston aka Rogue Eidolon

The Fox wrote:
So the question of HOW to nerf this character has been sufficiently answered. But the remaining question that Jiggy raised above, as to WHY this character needs to be nerfed, has yet to be addressed by anyone. Am I missing something obvious?

Because having a literally limitless number of ki points is not good for the game. Ifinite magus arcana points were far worse, but those are the reasons wyroot was banned.

***** Venture-Lieutenant, Massachusetts—Boston aka Rogue Eidolon

The sickened condition.

***** Venture-Lieutenant, Massachusetts—Boston aka Rogue Eidolon

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I always apply drunkenness rules to PCs who drink liquor for power. It still gives them plenty of ki to spend on their abilities before they run into trouble, and it seems to be an intended limiting factor of those archetypes.


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Thanks Sharaya,

The e-mail came through and everything seems OK. I finally feel safe to scuff out the circle of salt around our apartment and take down the warding pentagrams.

Cheers!
Mark


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Hi guys!

I am being haunted by the Pathfinder Combat Pad.

It all started when Linda added it to my cart several months ago just to see what the cost and S&H would be and then removed it.

It started re-appearing in my cart randomly over the weeks, maybe a dozen times in total. Spooky.

Eventually, I made an order to buy it (and hopefully end the ghost's unfinished business) a few weeks ago, but it looks like that didn't go through at all, no charge, no confirmation e-mail. I realized this when my pending subscription order didn't have it today. Weird.

So today, I bought it again. This time it went through, and while buying, the haunted pad told me it was going to be combined with my subscription order. However, then it didn't combine. Is there any way to exorcise this spirit and combine it with my subscription order, or have I become a Haunted Oracle?

Thanks!
Mark


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I agree with Jiggy on Avatar1's questions. Also I think Cheapy told me he has a clarification from Stephen that you can't use litany of eloquence to initiative-scam, aka the following:

Initiative Scamming with LoE: delay to right before the enemy, then cast litany of eloquence, which has no save. They are now Fascinated but their turn is next, so they lose the turn before any of your allies actually attack them or cast.

If you can't do that, then I think it must mean that you essentially can't use fascinate once a fight has started without doing something exceptional.


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One of my favorite Easter eggs is in the 3.5 Expanded Psionics Handbook. The power deja vu is not only present on its own page, correctly alphabetized, but also randomly in the middle of the next page as well.

@Ny--Notice his two entries actually have different guise names, domains, animals, etc.


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Kieviel wrote:
Why does Nyralothotep have a double entry?

He's tricksy and appears in many guises.

***** Venture-Lieutenant, Massachusetts—Boston aka Rogue Eidolon

Here's my guess at something approaching the build:

Level 11 Weapon Master Fighter. Wakizashi

With 25 Str and two +3 weapons, damage would be:

1d4 + 3 enhancement + 7 Str + 5 Training (includes Gloves of Dueling) + 2 Specialization + 6 Power Attack

=

1d6+23

So that's 24 minimum. Not quite 31, but it's close, about 80%. That's pretty standard fare for a fighter of that level. The true power of a TWF Fighter build is in gaining on-hit effects like Staggering Critical or Dazing Assault and then applying those to all those attacks.

***** Venture-Lieutenant, Massachusetts—Boston aka Rogue Eidolon

Derwalt wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Confusingly, I think officially all the empyreal lords grant all the subdomains.

Where do you see this? I've now been looking intensively at additional resources and the two blog posts, but I don't see this anywhere?

More specifically I'm thinking of the Arson subdomain from Goblins of Golarion. Additional resources says this: "To create a goblin character, you must have a Chronicle sheet that opens the race as a legal option at character creation. Only legal goblin PCs are allowed to choose anything from this book."

I don't think the Arson subdomain is in any other book, and therefore I don't believe that subdomain is legal for play - unless you're a goblin.

I think the rule that Empyreal lords give all subdomains is of course trumped by AR stating that only certain races have access to certain books. IMO, that's a good thing. It's already a big weird to me that Empyreal Lords, who are weaker than deities, are actually more powerful than deities in the number and variety of subdomains they grant and that Empyreal Lords, who have a celestial type, grant the subdomains of the other celestial types, including the cross-alignment ones (frex, a LG archon empyreal lord with the Azata subdomain of Good.

***** Venture-Lieutenant, Massachusetts—Boston aka Rogue Eidolon

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Confusingly, I think officially all the empyreal lords grant all the subdomains.

***** Venture-Lieutenant, Massachusetts—Boston aka Rogue Eidolon

John Compton wrote:
The tracking sheet allowed me to remove the items purchased/items sold boxes and expand the main Chronicle sheet's text box. This has enabled me to create Chronicle sheets chock full of boons, new items, and items found. Even when a scenario's rewards require less space, it allows me to include a space dedicated to notes.

The expanded boons and cool items have been noticed and appreciated throughout the season. Nearly every time we get a sheet now, somebody sees something they like or that they suggest to another player, "Hey, with your malady, couldn't you use that ring of inner fortitude?" one player said to another just after my last game. Both players are experienced players who know about all the supplements, both players knew about the malady, and both players I'm sure had the fame for the ring even if it wasn't on the sheet. But seeing that non-standard item on the sheet sparked creativity and a new idea.


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leo1925 wrote:

@Rogue Eidolon

Luonim isn't at the orrey room, it's on the centrifuge room.

Darn, it's been a while, so I remembered those rooms being the same room, with a spinning centrifuge and an orrery at the same time. But you're totally right.


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It should be something you could reasonably perceive or know, whether you want it or not. Unfortunately, that leads to a lot of possible table variation. But if you allow contingency on something you can't perceive or know, you could use it to answer questions in a bizarre way (for instance, contingency to cast mirror image if P=NP)


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James Sutter wrote:

Yeah, I'll admit that when I was creating this adventure, I didn't really keep the whole "single spellcaster is weak" angle in mind. It's really too bad that single-spellcaster combats don't work better under our rules set, because from a story angle, it always seems cheesy to me to add a bunch of meat shields just to balance things (especially when you're in a small space, like castle rooms). But I should have taken that into account.

Hopefully the flavor is satisfying enough to even things out. :)

As someone who enjoys spellcaster encounters that don't have seemingly arbitrary mookstoo, one thing I sometimes like to do is to cause the additional distractions due to a magical effect, rather than a hired meat shield. In that room, quick thoughts might be:

*As the orrery spins, each round one of the planets aligns with a crystalline pointer set into the orrery by Karzoug. This summons a CR-appropriate creature from that planet into the fight.

or

*On its own action, the orrery can draw a party member of its own choice (i.e. GM's choice) into a three-dimensional maze of tiny stars and planets, similar to a maze spell. Only one character can be drawn into this maze at a time. Several akatas and void zombies drift through the maze as well, giving the mazed character something to fight so they don't feel bored on their turn.

or

*The orrery itself is a powerful animated object (or instead can cast various spells to assist Luonim or harm the PCs) with a difficult hardness (higher than adamantine can penetrate), but there are levers in the room such that a clever wizard or charismatic UMDer might be able to spend their actions to deactivate it.


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Congratulations Owen!


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ShadowcatX wrote:
Rogue Eidolon wrote:
Only damage from good outsiders or holy/blessed/aligned weapons will defeat the regeneration.
When you say good outsiders, don't you mean creatures (outsiders) with the good subtype? Outsiders, AFAIK, are the only ones to have an alignment subtype, but their actual alignment doesn't matter.

Yes, [good] outsiders. Also spells with the good descriptor like holy smite will work, which I didn't mention the first time.


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Only damage from good outsiders or holy/blessed/aligned weapons will defeat the regeneration.


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RainyDayNinja wrote:
Now that submissions are closed, is it kosher to talk about what we submitted? I'm curious to see what topics and locations got the most love.

People were already saying things on the thread about what city they were gazetteering. For instance, given that someone else picked Brastlewark and posted as such, I'm glad I didn't. I'm guessing nobody else decided to gazetteer the same city I picked, and I'm going to keep mine secret for now, but we'll see.

EDIT: Parisianly ninjaed


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My guess is that the limit of 3, despite what you would think at first glance, actually raised the average number of submissions per person substantially while simultaneously cutting down on the people who submitted dozens of them. That's because where some people might previously think "Wow, it's Wayfinder, I should submit something!" this time it was "Wow, it's Wayfinder and I can submit up to 3, I should submit 3!" I know at least one person in that camp.


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Neil Spicer wrote:
So, who's rolling the Bluff check?

Oddly, that was also my first immediate thought.

***** Venture-Lieutenant, Massachusetts—Boston aka Rogue Eidolon

I believe my first game was a spontaneous pick-up game of Beggar's Pearl at Gencon, but my players are more likely to remember our Mists of Mwangi / Frozen Fingers of Midnight double-header game. I hit 150 (which was the last component I needed) running Green Market several months before my 5th star came through since there was a backup jam in approvals. I actually just ran Green Market again yesterday for the first time since then, and it was nearly my 200th, but not quite.


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Tim, you are doing everyone a favor by emphasizing these things directly in a bit of a confrontational way to bring it good visibility. Anyone who has freelanced before should know these things already, and newcomers hoping to use Wayfinder as an entry point are much better served in their future efforts by having this drilled into their head, rather than simply a polite and quiet rejection without knowing why.


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Anzyr wrote:

I stopped reading after "ranger's adamantium greataxe".

Because it's clear that your comparing system mastery disparity at that point and not the classes.

Big two-handed weapons like that are good for switch hitters as far as I've seen, and adamantine is a good material to pick.


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Stephen Radney-MacFarland wrote:
Shimesen wrote:
OK, here's an interesting one: what about using vital strike with the single attack from fleet charge (the mythic path ability) which is a swift action. I doubt this works because the action used is a swift action, and therefore not a standard action attack, but it begs the question because...well...because mythic! However, the wording of the ability suggests a move and standard action made in the time space of a swift action. It would be interesting to see what a designer says about it.

This is an interesting one, because you make an attack, not an attack action (I know...I know). I thought I could look at Spring Attack for guidance, but the problem with that feat (that to be honest I never noticed before) is that it does not have an action implicitly associated with it.

Anyhow, now I have a short list of questions to talk about tomorrow and my girlfriend is bugging me to stop working tonight. And I try to listen to her. I will get back to you tomorrow on these things. Till then, have a great night.

Have a great night, Stephen! Vital Strikes will be waiting for ya in the morning.


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Stephen Radney-MacFarland wrote:
Rogue Eidolon wrote:
Thanks Stephen! However, he's talking about a literalist interpretation of charging on a mount where the rider is not considered to be taking the charge action so maybe is taking an attack action. It's based off Sean's FAQ on pounce with mounted lance (Sean ruled that the rider does not count as charging for the purposes of pouncing).
Could you point me to that FAQ? I'm having a hard time finding the one you are talking about. It's not in the Bestiary pounce section.

Yes, the others are correct, it is that post. Sorry, I sometimes blur between official forum clarifications and FAQs when I'm rememberizing all the latest rulings for PFS!


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Stephen Radney-MacFarland wrote:
Davick wrote:
But can Vital Strike be used on a charging mount? For that matter, can I use any combination of move/standard actions if on a chraging mount, or do I become limiting to charging as well?

Vital Strike cannot be used with a charge. "A charge is a special full-round action" (Core Rulebook 198) where you make an attack roll (not an attack action, which is a standard action).

You can move and then make an attack action (as a standard action) and use vital strike.

Making a single attack as a standard action, Vital Strike yes.

Make any kind of attack as part of a full-round action, Vital Strike no.

Thanks Stephen! However, he's talking about a literalist interpretation of charging on a mount where the rider is not considered to be taking the charge action so maybe is taking an attack action. It's based off Sean's FAQ on pounce with mounted lance (Sean ruled that the rider does not count as charging for the purposes of pouncing).

***** Venture-Lieutenant, Massachusetts—Boston aka Rogue Eidolon

John Compton wrote:
Belafon wrote:

I had a great time playing this a couple of weeks ago. Book swarm, John, really? (OK, it was awesome.) (That was our only combat.)

We were warned that it was "not a combat-heavy" scenario and we all brought characters that turned out just perfect. A diviner, a Thassalonian specialist, and an arcanist walk into a library... Heck, even the samurai was Order of the Tome. (Complete coincidence but hysterical.)

I remember hearing about that game...

Belafon wrote:
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **

Didn't somebody

Blakros Matrimony:
Attack Damien Kastner during the wedding?

The worst I've seen in that scenario--I had a witch at my table who, at the "TSA checkpoint" was found to have brought eight different grenades, which were confiscated.

That witch was a great example of a character that turned completely around, though. After he made a mockery of himself and the Andoran faction repeatedly in that scenario (in further ways than in the spoiler), he completely devoted resources to becoming a better spokesman and presenting himself better. The next time there was a RP-heavy scenario, he got together with some of the same characters who played Blakros Matrimony with him and they were astounded by the transformation. He was giving speeches and convincing people left and right.

***** Venture-Lieutenant, Massachusetts—Boston aka Rogue Eidolon

Prethen wrote:
My players took less than 2 hours to complete the first part (moot) yet the next 7 encounters ate up the next 3 hours. I did try to move it along as much as possible. Perhaps there are areas that I could tighten up. But, at the time, I consciously did not let things drag...yet they did.

Did they not try to fireball the house? I heard a lot of groups do that, and it combined all the encounters. When that happened for us, it was over quickly after that.

***** Venture-Lieutenant, Massachusetts—Boston aka Rogue Eidolon

I've mostly heard of the AoE characters ending the stirge stomp in one or two rounds.


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The soul is in line, awaiting judgment, regardless of what they do to the body. If the judgment has already happened, the resurrection fails. And judgments don't always happen in linear time. I'm guessing the world designers at Paizo probably created that plot device for Golarion so the GM has an answer for why important high level people with lots of money aren't essentially immune to assassination, since sometimes they have already been judged.

Now, if they trap the soul in a gem or make the person into a vampire or something like that, then sure, that messes with their afterlife, and Pharasma is not amused. However, presumably she either doesn't have enough powerful psychopomps or the inclination to send them after such people or else we would have far fewer problems with soul binders and intelligent undead.

That said, if you still want to send a morrigna, they can be an effective harrier. Switch out some of their inquisitor spells known and you can make a great theme, so that gives you room to play with. Spiders and webs fit the morrigna pretty well.

***** Venture-Lieutenant, Massachusetts—Boston aka Rogue Eidolon

Mattastrophic wrote:

The method involves something that can occur in-game. No out-of-game shenanigans needed.

-Matt

Interesting--and it lasts after the scenario, even though by standard PFS rules nothing lasts after the scenario except a small list of things?

-Narrowing Things Down


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There's some spoilers in the OP for Jade Regent. I'll spoil my answer as it relates to JR

Jade Regent:
Be careful, the seal can only resurrect Amatatsu scions, so this gnome would have to be (irrevocably) declared a scion for that to work, and Minkai's current problems are all from making a sketchy person a scion.

As for Pharasma, why would she not be accepting of putting a corpse in the bag of holding? That doesn't seem like anything she would care about enough to send a psychopomp to attack. Maybe at most send a small sign of displeasure if its her own faithful who are denying a proper burial.

***** Venture-Lieutenant, Massachusetts—Boston aka Rogue Eidolon

Mattastrophic wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
The top Lymnieris devotion boon, which anyone can get at super-high levels for one feat, allows limitless lowering of people's age categories with no apparent duration or reversibility.

Good call. The method I'm thinking of is not a player option, though, as in not related to a feat, spell, class feature, etc.

-Matt

So like GM credit a character and never play them and just keep changing their age down one year every year?

***** Venture-Lieutenant, Massachusetts—Boston aka Rogue Eidolon

The top Lymnieris devotion boon, which anyone can get at super-high levels for one feat, allows limitless lowering of people's age categories with no apparent duration or reversibility.

***** Venture-Lieutenant, Massachusetts—Boston aka Rogue Eidolon

nosig wrote:
Cardinal Chunder wrote:

It can't use a wand.

EDIt: Activation: Wands use the spell trigger activation method, so casting a spell from a wand is usually a standard action that doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity. (If the spell being cast has a longer casting time than 1 action, however, it takes that long to cast the spell from a wand.) To activate a wand, a character must hold it in hand (or whatever passes for a hand, for non-humanoid creatures) and point it in the general direction of the target or area. A wand may be used while grappling or while swallowed whole.

It has no hands.

I have never seen this answered in anything official. (it has an issue sense the days of ed. 3.0).

Besides the fact that a raven has grasping feet ("... whatever passes for a hand..." from your post above), it can, and does grip things with it's beak. I've seen a "talking" bird that would speak while clinging to it's cage walls with it's beak.

This is very much still a YMMV issue...

Sorry SH527! I wish it was resolved also!

Edit to add in a link to another thread about this on the Rules board.. ...

I'm almost 100% positive I have seen Mike rule definitively that the raven cannot use the wand. It was back near the time of the great ape discussion, so it might be hard to dig up.

***** Venture-Lieutenant, Massachusetts—Boston aka Rogue Eidolon

There's going to be a bunch of PAXPort to the Inner Sea going down!

***** Venture-Lieutenant, Massachusetts—Boston aka Rogue Eidolon

Tamec wrote:

I just ran this in Hard Mode at Megacon 2014

The party came prepared with many magic circles vs evil which drained Krune's dispells. He frustrated the party by using walls of stone all over the place. When he ran out of dispells he cast wish, by this time the players had comprehend languages and tongues going so they heard the wording of the wish which was. "I really wish that entire adventuring party would go to hell" They failed the saving throws and popped into the first circle, the next person in the initiative was the witch who cast banish and banished the party back to the prime material plane. Effectively they succeeded and failed at the same time, they succeeded by living to fight another day but failed in stopping Krune. All in all my table had fun, and that's the point right?

I'm glad everyone had fun!

Some quick notes, mostly for others reading along at home to keep in mind--banishment doesn't work if the caster isn't on his or her own home plane, isn't a witch spell except as a patron spell for boundaries (at level 12) and dimensions (at level 14), and would only work on 2 HD of creatures per caster level (so not the whole party), so there's a few reasons the player of the witch was pulling a fast one. If it was a dismissal, that would have required the obscure Peace patron (level 8) so is possible, and it works when you aren't on your home plane, but it is single target only. Either way, there is a 20% chance per creature that the creature is sent to a random plane instead of their home plane, which could be even more deadly than being together as a group in Hell.


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Keldin wrote:
So, has anyone worked up any additional spirits for the Shaman of the Advanced Class playtest? I'm particularly interested in the equivalent of the Lunar Oracle, if there is one?

This should probably be in the homebrew forum. If you want a good answer using the rules in the ACG playtest guide as they were written, the Lunar Mystery for oracle took many of the best revelations of Nature and Heavens and either used them as-is or upgraded them to be even stronger, so I'd say you could grab Heavens with Wandering Nature and have a good fit.

***** Venture-Lieutenant, Massachusetts—Boston aka Rogue Eidolon

Jiggy wrote:
But if that's less metagamey, what exactly is happening in-character? Literally rewinding time? A premonition into the future that they act on in the present? What non-metagaming rationale would apply to that ability that doesn't apply just as easily to the actual ability?

It would eliminate the below discussion, which requires the metagame ability of Bob and Oracle to calculate the bonus in order to use the ability. With my proposal, the character is just awesome and only uses it when it helps to use it.

Oracle: "Guys, we need this to be a miss. Andy just rolled a 14 on the dice to hit. I think a 13 missed and a 15 hit. Should I Misfortune it?"

Bob: "Yes, absolutely for sure. He has a flank this time. That should push it to a hit. The bonus is either +12 or +13 normally, plus the flank, vs AC 27."

Oracle: "Of course! In that case, I'll use my ability. I'm sure glad I had you at the table watching all Andy's dice rolls out of character and running the numbers, Bob. Otherwise my oracle would have no idea when to use this ability"

To summarize--the problem isn't that the characters might be able to know when to use the ability, but rather that they might not depending solely on an out of game constraint (the players' memory and number skills). I'm all for the characters being able to know when to do their thing (I don't know if I speak for Andy on that, just for myself).

***** Venture-Lieutenant, Massachusetts—Boston aka Rogue Eidolon

Jiggy wrote:
Fair enough; and I guess it would probably be pretty unreasonable to assume that someone capable of deliberately altering the forces of chance would be any more adept than usual at perceiving those forces, eh? ;)

Honestly? I think it might be better if the ability just worked to reroll a known success, after success is known. It's a buff in terms of not using it pointlessly, but it cuts down on the metagaming and fixes the rules issue where it unintentionally acts as fortune for allies.

On a personal note, I have Misfortune on my oracle, and I just generally don't use it unless the GM is comfortable with it.

***** Venture-Lieutenant, Massachusetts—Boston aka Rogue Eidolon

Jiggy wrote:

Interesting; I find that a great deal of what people call "metagaming" is only metagaming if you choose to not have the mechanics actually reflect anything in the game world.

If a player being able to see the attack roll before using Misfortune is metagaming, it's the result of choosing to believe that an attack that's off by a mile and an attack headed right for the throat look exactly the same with the only difference being whether or not the target falls over afterwards.

For myself, I choose to believe that there's a visible difference, in-character, between a really poorly-executed attack and one that looks like an "Oh crap!" moment, and that an oracle who sees an incoming "Oh crap!" moment would make the in-character choice to spray some fail onto the guy.

An experienced adventurer being able to tell the difference between an on-target and off-target attack is not metagaming.

I think Andrew may likely be talking more about saving throws. By the rules as written, if you toss an area of effect spell that doesn't have a visible effect on those who fail the save, even you don't know who failed and who succeeded.


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Erick Wilson wrote:
Rogue Eidolon wrote:


The honest truth is that any party that makes good use of their martial characters, optimized or not, can always keep going for many on-CR encounters before resting if they have enough sources of healing (like a wand of CLW). It's generally parties "carried" by the casters that wind up needing to rest sooner because even if your level 7 sorceress can wipe out the encounter with one 3rd level spell, she'll eventually run out. The exception being witches with their at-will hexes.
I know this. You know this. But the encounter design of many mods and APs does not reflect this fact.

I dunno--it's all in how you sell the amount that the PCs should keep pushing each day. In fact, I daresay that in a campaign where the PCs try to press onward, martials and especially fighters shine more. I always see these threads about how you could just have a party with only casters and I think to myself that those groups must never deal with mega-dungeons where it's in the party's best interest to clear out as much as possible in one day, while they have the element of surprise.


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Erick Wilson wrote:
andreww wrote:


They are APL7, a CR7 or 8 encounter should be a speed bump for them.

Okay, a couple of things. First, it's barely even that, to the point that, really, even playing out such an encounter seems a little bit trivial. And second, no, it's not supposed to be that. In theory, a CR 7 encounter should drain 1/4 of their resources. Four consecutive CR 7 encounters should leave them feeling pretty drained and challenged, according to the tenets of the CR system. But in reality, they could probably face more like 20 such challenges before having to stop and rest. An equal APL encounter is supposed to be the "average" and APL+1 is supposed to be "challenging." Believe me, 2 redcaps do not "challenge" these guys.

And again, bear in mind that I am talking about a relatively non-optimized party here, which is my real point. Even if we agreed that they're being challenged appropriately by encounters, it would still show that any degree of optimization pushes you over the edge in this regard.

The honest truth is that any party that makes good use of their martial characters, optimized or not, can always keep going for many on-CR encounters before resting if they have enough sources of healing (like a wand of CLW). It's generally parties "carried" by the casters that wind up needing to rest sooner because even if your level 7 sorceress can wipe out the encounter with one 3rd level spell, she'll eventually run out. The exception being witches with their at-will hexes.


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Erick Wilson wrote:
Rogue Eidolon wrote:


Actually, there's a pair of characters in our local PFS group with 11 Cha sorcerers where its terribly important for them not to get more Cha (Karmic, and they are built to fail as many Concentration checks as possible, with Paired Opportunists).
Okay, that's hilarious.

They're pretty deadly, especially after they both dipped Cavalier so they could give everyone Paired Opportunists. Their best module ever was the one where they were given a drug that dealt Cha damage.

Them: "What!? It lowers our Cha-based checks and doesn't prevent us from casting spells. Must have MORE!"

Concentration->Fail->Everyone gets a swing at +4

They also always say "This is our most powerful magic, our 1st-level spell. It's more powerful than the cantrip because it has a 10% higher chance to fail to be cast defensively."

Or "Damn it! I actually cast shield! Oh well, I guess I do get +4 AC..."

***** Venture-Lieutenant, Massachusetts—Boston aka Rogue Eidolon

Andrew Christian wrote:

And so the ability forces the GM to either roll in the open, which sometimes really sucks because some rolls need to be hidden. Especially at a table where metagaming is rampant.

Some players just can't help but make metagaming decisions.

GM rolls
Player: hey gm what's that Natural 20 for.
GM: you don't know.
Player: ok reroll it.
GM rerolls a 5 and scenario / encounter ruined by metagaming.

So, it's an immediate action. Thus, if you don't know about the reason for the roll yet, you are likely flat-footed and can't take those. I guess unless you multiclassed Rogue or Barbarian!

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