I want a couple things fixed, like can I use extra hex to take any hex from any spirit or just my primary one. Can I use extra hex to snag a witch hex since I'm technically part of the witch class. The fact that the majority of their "hexes" are revelation level in power throws me for a loop cause does that mean a Witch can take one of their hexes? I feel the spirits are a missed opportunity to really make that their central focus and gameplay. I expounded more in the Shaman discussion, but generally I feel no matter what spell list they wind up with expanding the number of spirits they can have at one time is the best way to give them a custom list, without giving them a custom list. You can customize it yourself by binding the appropriate spirits that day. The real disappointment is check the first post in every class and there's an update from the team, except Shaman and that's disheartening. We did get that they're thinking of using the Druid spell list, which is fine the spell list they use doesn't really matter to me whether it's the Cleric, Druid or Witch list as the Spirits should be your customization in regards to spell selection. I just feel that the Spirit feature should be the focus and currently it's more like swappable Oracle mysteries than dealing with spirits.
The problem brutedude is the one class that's currently a turn off is the one I actually wanted out of the product, it's just not turning out anything like I wanted in it's implementation. That's the disappointment.
Having this information is great but also disappointing as it shows that the class I wanted changed the most is "working as intended". I've got 9 other classes to make up for the one that's gonna be a wash for me and my table though so that's a good thing.
Thanks for the information update most of it looks awesome!! Still holding my breath that Shaman will make a more dramatic change in the Spirits as THE defining class feature direction.
Here's the key thing that I think would really help the class at large. A lot of people are wanting either the Druid spell list or Witch spell list. That's fine and I can get behind it, I think giving them more spirits bound at a time would let you fill in the gaps. Like someone up thread mentioned certain things like Commune and Planar Ally, let the Spirits give access to those spells. We don't need a fully customized list if we're making the class revolve more around their Spirits, they can fill in the gaps of what isn't on whichever list they go with.
I also see where the MAD issue can arise I think a little stream lining of the class could be a good idea. I mean the Witch is Intelligence based and the Oracle is Charisma. Frankly I think Charisma should have been the defining stat only because using your force of personality to bind Spirits to your will is kinda thematic. Intelligence could work as you've learned about the spirits and how to bind them to service, you could flavor unlocking new Wandering Spirit options as having discovered/researched them to learn how to use them. Though I'm on the fence about it Wisdom works too as they grant you their Wisdom, but at that point having your other class features run hither thither and yon off other stats is a pain when you're a primary caster.
Though it seems like I'm tossing a lot of flak at this so far, it's only because I LOVE Paizo and I want to see a product I'm excited for. I don't want to see a product that feels lackluster or seems like it missed a great opportunity to do some awesome things and push the envelope. My hope is that we're far enough out in advance of the product that all the feedback across the playtest can have a strong impact on the final product so our community gets the greatest satisfaction possible from helping create a product we all want to see and can be excited for.
Yeah the big issue with Extra Hex tomfoolery is that you have to meet the pre reqs. And the Hex entry for Shaman's say you pick from those available to your Spirit. That's why it doesn't work to let you branch out it to the standard Witch hexes unless I'm missing something.
After some more thought I like a bit of what the class is doing I would do an overhaul. Let them cast from the Cleric list, that's fine. Let them sacrifice prepared spells for cure/inflicts, Oracles can do this just let Shamans do it too. Please note I couldn't see if that was included already, if so please direct me to it.
I would have their max spells/day/spell level be something like 2+3 (or 1+3) instead of 4+1. Where the +1 is spirit magic, aka domain spell. This would make it 2 prepared spells and 3 spirit magic slots. I'd do it this way as I would increase the number of spirits the class acquires as per one of my previous posts in this thread. This would result at end game giving them 2(plus any bonus spells from high stats) prepared and then 3 more floater spells they can cast on the fly from 4 different spirits. This adds some serious flexibility to the class, while also making the Spirit choices that much more important and have a greater effect on the class overall.
I'd revert the Hexes to being called Revelations, they can use Extra Revelation to get more of them as usual. I'd just add Hexes to the class at levels 3, 7, 11, 15, 19. Advancing at the Witch rate for major and grand levels. This lets them start using Extra Hex if they want to. Now this means they'll have a lot of sustained power throughout the course of a day. To tone things down I'd probably tweak their spell list maybe reduce their max spell level or more probably reduce their spells per day. Or put them back at the d6 poor bab area. I feel that a focus on Weird Powers derived from spirits makes a better fit for this concept than another caster.
The only hiccup with that is it says you have to choose your hexes from your spirits. Which would be awesome with more than one spirit, but I don't think you could use extra hex to pick a hex from a wandering spirit because you won't always have that spirit. That's why I think it would work better calling those Revelations and giving them 5 actual Witch hexes from the witch list over their 20 levels. That way you can definitely expand that if you want to.
I think I might have just been confused on what the core concept of this class is. My interpretation from the little blurbs we had early on was it was going to be a Witch/Oracle mash up power wise, as opposed to a Witch flavor mashed up with Oracle mechanics, because that's kinda how it feels to me.
LazarX what I mean by these not being those, is mechanically. Very few of the Shaman's hexes seem to be Witch hexes, they're much more in line or replicating Oracle revelations which is my point. I'd rather see them have Witch hexes and be able to grab more with Extra Hex as opposed to being tied to the limited selection they have based on their bound Spirit.
I'm on the wagon with the Shaman's hexes not really being hexes, they're revelations from Oracle mysteries let's just call it like it is. That said I enjoy some of the things the class is attempting to do. I think when it comes to this hybrid though I'd much rather see Witch Hexes and Oracle Revelations be the primary power of the class as opposed to it's spell casting.
What I mean by that is I think I would be more excited by this class if it actually combined the hexes from witch, opening up the Extra Hex feat if you wanted to go that route, and also having revelations based on their bound spirit. Because the Spirit you've bound granting you powers based on what it's revealed to you feels like Revelations, not hexes. I think having a single permanent spirit is awesome, but I'd love to see more than one wandering spirit.
An older 3PP the Encyclopedia Divine's "Shaman Call of the Wild" I feel did an ok job at presenting a format for having multiple spirits. Now I wouldn't go down the rabbit hole they did, but I think maybe having Wandering Spirit scale upwards in number would be neat.
So at 4th she gains one wandering spirit. Then at 12th she can bind 2 and one of them grants it's greater power. Finally at 20th she can bind 3 and one gives it's true power, one gives it's greater, and the last is the standard power.
Edit: Also I've been kinda meh about the spell list choices made so far in the playtest. I'd rather have oracle revelations with the witch list as opposed to a few witchy things with a cleric spell list.
The wife and I just opened our case and the monsters and monstrous humanoid figures were all around very solid. The larger figures also seemed to be pretty fine, she expressed disappointment that these sets do neat things with iridescent paints sometimes and the Shaiten wasn't jeweltastic like the art that inspired it. Our big offenders seem to be some of those others have seen like Sajan's bra top, Irovetti the train wreck, and our Lini seemed like she was just blasted top to bottom in her hair's bright color so she almost looks like a very shiny twig with an over large forhead. One of the things we noticed is a lot of our human figures have the Supernatural Demon Possessed Eye Syndrome. Namely their eyes are all soulless jet black... rather appropriate for Halloween, but still. The Eagle Knights seemed to be going for the war torn/roughed up look but just look almost like their clothes went through a quick Acid Rain spell and started to have holes burn through. Our poor Beatific One seemed to have gotten defanged, but from a distance such as down on the table is perfectly acceptable they'd have been too small to really notice anyway.
The Reefclaw is straight up awesome it's a great figure that I know I will get a lot of use out of. The biggest disappointment for me in this set was seeing my wife's face light up when she opened the box that had Queen Ileosa in it and then seeing her face fall flat as she got a close up look at her face. She looks like Pablo Francisco and that is incredibly disappointing for a figure as spectacular as the rest of her is. Once I took the Queen and put her down on the table distance made it better, but we'd already seen her face up close and it may take some time to get over it.
All in all the set is a solid set especially when you consider that only 6-8 of the figures are really effected by the strange black eye phenomenon that overtook our humans. The Large Figures, Kobolds, Goblins, Orcs, and Serpentfolk are all really great and I for one and stoked that we got such a helping of Kobolds.
Not very useful in that regards Beckett. The central big art piece is about flavoring of the transformation. There are some sidebars throughout that give a bit about full lycanthropes. Carrion Crown and Rule of Fear are where it's at for Ustalav info and more stuff on lycanthropes. I really hoped they would do something neat with full lycanthropes like they did with the Hunger rules in Blood of the Night. As is this product feels more like an introduction to Eberronian Shifters for those who missed out on that setting as opposed to something dealing with actual Lycanthropes. Now I liked shifters well and fine I just wanted more on full Lycanthropy not a new PC race I already have rules for if I wanted to use them.
I will say one of the coolest things in the book and it's just one page is the Moon Calendar. Every month's Full Moon has a name that it's referred to by and that to me just screams awesome and flavor.
Oh I agree Adjule I was one of those people. I know they caught a lot of flak from Blood of the Night because it wasn't what people were expecting from it's announcement and what we had seen in the previous "Blood of" installments. So going into that one people expected heavy Dhampir info and minor Vampire info. Then Blood of the Moon was announced and skinwalkers weren't mentioned in it's first announcement they were tacked onto it later. Which is fine, I think it's an expectations issue on my end. Blood of the Night I wanted heavy Dhampir and minor Vampire stuff, for Blood of the Moon I wanted heavy Lycanthropy, especially since it's much easier to contract Lycanthropy imo than Vampirism, also as I could completely live without skinwalkers.
See that makes me sad because it's basically an inverse of what happened with Blood of the Night. Blood of the Night I went in expecting all sorts of Dhampir goodies and they felt like a footnote. Blood of the Moon I was really hoping for lots of actual Lycanthropy goodies, with the new player race being more of a Footnote. I still wanna see it but that makes me incredibly disappointed.
I'm a little concerned that this book may be following the same mistakes that Blood of the Night made. Blood of the Night it seemed like people were hoping for a Dhampir book with a bit on how to play a Vampire. And they got a lot of how to play a Vampire and very little Dhampir. Blood of the Moon seemed like the book about how to incorporate lycanthropes except now it seems to much more heavily be about Skinwalkers. I'd much rather have had 4 player companions with each one focusing on one of these topics.
I'm incredibly sad if they're taking the skinwalker down the Eberron shifter path. As much as I enjoyed shifters they were definitely a setting specific thing, I'm still wary of how they're trying to fit them into Golarion I can't think of a valid reason why they would exist with any sort of diluted lycanthropy.
To be fair my post was in support of Paizo's inclusiveness and was a non combative post talking about interesting and what some may perceive as over the top backgrounds of the seemingly controversial NPCs. It was also deleted, most likely due to responses to it, as opposed to the post itself being the reason it was terminated. Instead of butting heads with staff over the deletion, it may be best to take it to PMs where you can hopefully get feedback and answers without cluttering the product thread. Not trying to pick a fight or offend you, just a friendly suggestion.
Here's how it's written in the book.
"Mythic Saving Throws (Ex): At 5th tier, whenever you succeed at a saving throw against a spell or special ability, you suffer no effects as long as that ability didn't come from a mythic source (such as a creature with a mythic tier or mythic ranks). If you fail a saving throw that results from a mythic source, you take the full effects as normal."
So I was reading through Mythic Adventures and I reached the Mythic Saving Throws entry and was a bit confused. The line that threw me off is "If you fail a saving throw that results from a mythic source, you take the full effects as normal." Does that mean if you fail a saving throw from a non mythic source you take half effect if the spell allows?
Load and Reload were two of my favorite albums. I feel that they really exhibited the band's growth musically and showed that they were more than just a thrash metal band. Now mind you I still LOVE S&M and think it's probably my favorite of their albums. I gave St. Anger a shot, but it was such a disappointment that I stopped following them and stuck with everything pre St. Anger.
Just wanted to quickly touch base. I moved recently and apparently flubbed on changing the billing address for my card so my bank flagged this months charge and you couldn't process it. I cleared that up and the helpful IT person at my bank cleared that authorization. To prevent future hiccups I went and updated my payment method to reflect the most current information and it authorized immediately. I assume you guys wouldn't double charge me for a single shipment, but I wanted to check in since my account is showing two separate authorizations.
It was run last year during Paizocon. I didn't win a seat at the table, but 2 people who had didn't show up and I was allowed to roll a character real quick and join the fun. It was a good time, there were hiccups on my end with the Gunslinger class but the adventure itself for the parts we saw was a lot of fun and promised to be a great time. I got to pick Mr. Renie's brain a bit about Alkenstar, but there wasn't that much he could talk about as it didn't seem to be fully nailed down at the time.
I think this adventure could do a lot for those of us who love the Alkenstar area so we'll have to show our support by purchasing this product in the hopes that we'll get more attention in that area of the world. I for one plan to buy this module for just that reason. After all Alkenstar is the hold out of the Browncoats don't ya know.
It just frees up his later feat slots for feats that have Level requirements, that's all. I'd allow it with the cost tacked on as has been previously suggested. I'm also a very lenient DM so that's just me.
Now a question about the situation. He just hit level 7 and is taking leadership. Is the Witch being discussed the cohort or the character proper?
I'm trying to make sure I completely understand the Wealth by Level and Item Creation section. Is the additional 25% the amount of wealth they use to determine what they craft, and the original WBL spent as normal? This is my assumption reading it. Or is the additional 25% added to the standard WBL and then you just spend money like you crafted everything you could. I think that's the game breaker.
As excited for this book as I am, I'm incredibly wary of the "lesser shapeshifter" race. Shifters worked for Eberron, but I personally dislike the idea of a watered down version of Lycanthropy as it doesn't really fit IMO. I look forward to seeing how it's presented and will attempt to reserve final judgement until I get to read it. Unless it's presented well and makes sense though I am afraid it may weaken the product overall and detract from the horror of full lycanthropy by providing a no drawback/major benefits race of lesser lycanthropes.
Gonna have to agree with Talonhawke. If your feint works then you can exploit it for the sneak attack damage or for the easier hit. If you don't know it worked then you wouldn't attempt to take advantage of the opening you created.
I think the only thing I was sad about is the Moose and Walrus get to start medium and increase to large size while our poor Bear is stuck at medium. I LOVE this book and it's going to get a lot of use from our table. I was just hoping they'd give us something about Bears going large size maybe at 7th level or something.
Got our shipment today! A full set with NO BREAKS! Hurray for all the minis surviving. Even the brave mites who fought the terrifying Iron Golem Rampage of 2013! Xin and the Clockwork Reliquary were in the last two boxes so there was a bit of nail biting up until the end. They all look great though. I may have to pick up more Grey Maidens as I only got 2 of those.
One of my players raised a question about the spells section. Under Spellcasting there's lines for the classic save DCs, Spells per day, Spells Known, etc. What confused them was the column titled Ability Bonus. I said that it's probably there for your Primary Casting Attribute bonus so you can figure out the DC, but it seemed too easy and superfluous for that to be correct. I was just wondering if it was put there for the purposes of people figuring out that level's save DC. If so why was it put between Spells Per Day and Bonus Spells. Also why include it if there's already a column for Save DCs? I'm just trying to determine it's purpose so I can best guide my players.
They never mention Enlisted or Officers, just the ranks of Major and General. I think that breaking it down into modern ranking structure adds a level of complexity that's unnecessary in an organization that has somewhere around 600 members.
Agreed I figured there wasn't a need to split the Enlisted and Officer ranks. I figure Officer Commissions probably work the way they used to where a Rich/Noble family purchases said Commission essentially buying their child a rank. Of course you feel bad for the NCO that gets paired with that person.
So I'm prepping for CotCT and one of my players is planning on playing a Sable Company Marine. I started doing some research to help flesh out their character and noticed that it says in Guide to Korvosa, any human can reach the rank of General and non humans can reach Major. Only one hiccup, what rank system is in use? This raised a further question does Paizo use the modern day rank system for it's military organizations or does it change from organization to organization. The Korvosan Guard is another military structured group that has a Field Marshal as it's leader. I could create a ranking table for these different organizations, but I'd much prefer to have some input before I do. And a big request that future Military type organizations get some sort of Rank/Chain of Command sidebar so players/GMs interested in them don't need to freehand such things.
I'm currently thinkings of it ranking as such for the Sable Company.
Way late to this thread so sorry for the necro. Was prepping for a game and spotted the Lupine Common. It mentions the Lupin a near extinct race of wolfmen where was this referenced from?! As I feel I totally missed something.
To be fair your last post is actually the most inflammatory of the posts that have been made so far. However some things to keep in mind Gary's statement about debate isn't a warning it's an advisement using certain words creates situations that can quickly devolve into mud slinging and belligerent arguments.
Now your request was for people to argue in favor of an illegal combination. I assume you built your character exclusively using the PRD, if I'm incorrect just inform me and I'll adjust my arguments from there. A) You're a Sorc with the Arcane Bloodline in order to have a Familiar, B) You chose Ear Piercing Scream as a Known Spell, C) You are level 1, and D) You selected Maximize Spell as a feat.
With these assumptions in place let's look at the legality of the combo you are suggesting is effective. So far your selection of a known spell, feat, and familiar are fine. The issue arises when you attempt to use them together. First a Familiar may share spells at level 1 it cannot deliver spells. Share spells lets you buff your familiar as if it were yourself for the purposes of targeting. This lets you do things like cast Alter Self on your Raven. It does not let you cast damaging effects through your companion. At level 3 your Raven earns the ability to have Touch spells delivered through him, Ear Piercing Scream is not a touch spell and is ineligible for Familiar delivery.
Maximize Spell can't be used at level 1 by any class that I'm aware of.
Maximize Spell (Metamagic)
As you can see it uses a spell slot 3 levels higher than normal, therefor a Maximized level 1 spell would be a 4th level spell. A Sorcerer cannot cast one till 8th level. Even if for argument sake you could Maximize it at level 1 it would deal 6 damage if the enemy failed their save and 3 if they made it. Maximize only maximizes the available damage not the potential damage. At level 8 when you could feasibly Maximize this spell it would deal 24 damage if they failed their save as you'll need to be level 10 to receive the 5th die of damage.
In essence the reason people didn't jump to argue it's legality is because it just doesn't work. In a debate the two sides should have at least the illusion of a viable position this doesn't. It violates the basic rules of the game and cannot be done for the following reason: You can't cast it through your familiar, You can't cast a spell of the appropriate level for the pertinent metamagic feat to function, and you're not a high enough caster level to have that many dice of damage for the spell you're referencing. At level 10 on the other hand you'll be able to do it minus casting through your familiar.
A friendly reminder, referring to other forum goers as an ignorant and belligerent group isn't exactly a good way to make friends.
Because honestly they don't make a whole lot of sense. Lycanthropy is hereditary or infected and honestly if you didn't inherit it most were-pappies would probably give you the bite to keep you part of the pack. So the whole watered down version doesn't really flow too well. As for Tengu and Kitsune. There's a difference between Were/Lycanthropes and anthropomorphic race based on folklore tricksters who shapechange. Kitsune and Tengu are most definitely NOT shifters in the Eberron sense nor are they Lycanthropic as they don't infect people.
Shifters were a very Eberron thing they fit the world and made sense there as Lycanthropes were basically hunted hard on a continent wide status. Preventing the "Oh son you didn't get the gift lemme fix that" scenario. Full blown Lycanthropes are pretty plentiful by comparison in Golarion. Ustalav and Darkmoon Vale are prime examples.
I think that's the difference. Do people see half-lycanthrope and think Anthropomorphic animal races similar to Catfalk, Ratfolk, Tengu and Kitsune. Or are people wanting a race that is somehow a half werewolf or a watered down were-race like shifters from Eberron. If people are thinking half lycanthrope I'd like to get a bit more on people's thoughts on what exactly they're looking for in a halfbreed that a full lycanthrope natural or afflicted doesn't provide.