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Recent posts by
Rexx:
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zahnb wrote:
Ok, I guess I've never been a big fan of traps. They seem so... stupid in a RPG. If your rogue rolls (DC's always seem so high) not great and misses the trap, Boom. Take alot of damage, possibly die, heck TPK even.
I guess I hate that.
Gawds, tell me about it. I have this fighter and there's always these pesky monsters you have to fight constantly. Every critter in an adventure is against the PCs and they seem so... stupid in an RPG. If your fighter rolls (AC's and hit points seem so high) not great and misses the monster, boom. Get whacked by the monster in return, take a lot of damage, possibly die, heck TPK even.
I guess I hate that.
::wipes sarcasm from his beard:: Monsters, traps, puzzles, NPC diplomacy...all standard fixtures of RPGs, computer games, a lot of board games, and everyday life in school/work/home. Some people don't like certain aspects of the game but for every person that doesn't like traps there's someone that does. I bet there's someone in your party that does; let them take lead and build on their trap solving synergy so overcoming the obstacle becomes a team victory rather than a reason to hate something about the game. If you're playing a rogue and hate traps, then perhaps it's time to start taking some levels in another class...
As ASEO keeps mentioning, this has been a topic of discussion for two years. This thread has Mr. Jacob's explanation and links to the previous two threads on the same subject.
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Lilith wrote:
Getting punched in the chest is a good way to describe how I feel right now. It's like somebody just kicked my dog or something... O.o
Like playing Row-sham-bow with Eric Cartman. And that's after the initial shock and reading about the circumstances a little more.
It's been a rough week...VA Tech, taxes, death to my "kin" in Dungeon and Dragon. What's next? Prohibition returns? Ice cream causes cancer?
Like so many, I'll put my remaining tab into Pathfinder but I will need to be experiencing d20 OGLagasms with each release to commit to further months.
Loyalty to a company/brand takes a hit with events like this. TSR's death throes were survived, I suppose our favourite magazine will be too.
I just hope aspiring writers, artists, and editors will have a chance to contribute through Paizo's guidance.
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Supe up the sons of kyuss for this encounter, you set the precedence of all future encounters with the critters.
Rather than suping up the spawn, you may find that having 5 or 6 of them is enough; I had seven spawn and that was too many. My party of five PCs were 7th level by they time they reached the end encounter and seven fear effects to save against assured everyone but the paladin failed. Lure the PCs away from the stairs with noises and then have the spawns near the stair pop out to block their exit. I would have had a TPK on my hands if the I hadn't "curved some dice rolls"; I realized too late that I had too many spawns to overcome considering the odds of PCs making seven Will saves aren't as good as I had thought. Fear affected, kyuss worms crawling over the PCs...spawn are ugly enough as is, especially en masse.
If you need a premise for all the spawns in the cellar, run *Peter Fuesz's soldier side story* to get the numbers up. A lot of us have used this to spectacular results; I played this on Halloween last year and the players still talk about it being the best gaming session ever. I had two "sick" soldiers go down to the basement to start so there were three spawns to begins with so Duncan, Walton, Yerell, Hammond, and Santos ("where is he from?!") had their hands full. Hammond escaped, otherwise everyone both enjoyed seeing their "soldiers" attacking their PCs and hating them at the same time. Good stuff.
You may want to save your "suped" sons of Kyuss for Spire of Longshadows considering the taint of the area is enough to make them uber-spawn.
Good luck.
*Link to Soldier Story embedded in text.
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Greetings Betote. Your grammar is excellent, so no worries errors in translation.
I was in the same situation of needing to fuse HoHR and CB into a large "Free City" installment of the AP. My reasons were the PCs were a little ahead of the game in XP and I really felt the doppelganger-based elements were a bit hackneyed for my players to do again.
So I had to lure the PCs into Zyrxog's machinations. I used the drow thralls to set ambushes and make it clear that someone wanted the PCs dead. I also had an old PC from the early parts of the campaign that had gone missing reappear with the drow and escape into the sewers. This led to a chase through the undercity until they found themselves at Zyrxog's doorstep.
I realize you likely haven't devised a lure as intriguing as a missing companion, but perhaps the drow have snuck into the PCs rooms and have stolen personal effects, items that can be used for scrying and the like. Maybe the arcane caster's familiar was stolen, or the favourite animal companion was taken. Hopefully that's enough to get the PCs to follow after.
If the PCs do not want to be railroaded, a natural instinct for some, then it's easy enough to place the hints you need in the time leading up to the Games. Eligos approaches the PCs about the Apostolic Scrolls and rumours that a powerful citizen of the City has purchased them. All the "celebrities" of the City will be at the Games and that's a likely place for the Scrolls to take affect. That should give the PCs enough material to go on to entice them into the adventure's plots. Drow, disguised as Arcane Auriga, attack the PCs the first night, sapping them of resources for the first match and making them realize that they're not safe in the Coenoby either. That may get them to explore where the drow came from and lead to the discovery of the Apostle.
Best of luck.
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Michael Griffith wrote:
The second is The Spottle Parlor from issue 12 or so.
I used the setting and the game Spottle in the middle of a campaign I was running waaaay back when and the players had a great time. They had so great a time they asked to keep returning to "The Spottle Spot" time and time again between adventures to have some R&R. The unique NPCs in the adventure, as well as any others a good DM can throw into the mix as well as the game Spottle itself make the adventure wonderful and the site a great one for any game. We used a big rubber toy frog for the Spottle toad, poker chips for gold, silver, and copper pieces when we bet, and created fun memories each and every time we revisited the parlor.
I'm glad the Spottle Parlor worked for someone! I ran this as well and only ended up getting frustrated when the barbarian PC ended up eating the frog to avoid losing a huge bet.
Here's an instant that the 3.xE skills could have saved the day, especially with Bluff and Sense Motive checks. The barbarian blurts out and points behind the spottle dealer "Look, Haley's Comet!". I had the dealer make a d4+2 x WIS check on d% and ended with a bad luck roll. The dealer bit on the bluff and the barbarian bit on the frog. ::sigh:: After the dealer realizes what's happening the game session degrades into a Three Stooges episode with the barbarian spitting up the frog, the cleric trying to revive it, and the dealer calling in the toughs rough up the PCs.
Still to this day, when the players attempt a Bluff that fails, they try again with "Look, Haley's Comet!!!"
So good call on "memorable" adventure site as the memories flooded back for me!
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I was surprised not to find an existing thread on this subject already in the archives. So I may as well throw these observations out to those who will be playing this adventure in the future.
The following is from a player from another game that ran Arcane Auriga for me during the first round of the Champion's Games:
Shylock wrote:
Auriga errata
1) The additional 1d6 for Rennida's frost damage is not listed
2) The +2 Reflex she gets from her familiar is not listed.
3) The whole non-stacking of magical ammuntion with the magical bow limitation in 3.5 makes the Arcane Archer PC useless. If this limitation is in place, I would recommend no level in Arcane Archer, and rather just take another level in fighter for the extra feat.
Tactics
- Rennida's familiar is probably not with her. This would take away the Alertness feat, but would still allow her the + 2 to Reflex.
- Screw the memorization of Jump, Melf's and Ray of Enfeeblement. Useless in this situation. She should have memorized some more buff-type spells. There should also be some way to negate the armour failure rate for the pre-game buffs...maybe she doffs her breastplate, casts, and then the 3 other elves help her don her breastplate.
- Assuming they have made pacts with the other teams to go after the PCs first (which is probably going to be the case from a real-world perspective, as all the players are going to want to take on the PCs rather than the other NPC groups just for the sake of "ha-ha...I almost killed your character...") Their first round, all four elves should spend their entire action getting as far away as possible from each other, using a full run action. This way, it spreads out the PCs and makes them burn their high-lvl area effect spells on killing just a single NPC. The way I played it was just stupid, especially considering the area-effect spells I knew were coming. I think I was just putting too much confidence in the scroll actually working.....
- Once spread out as far as practicable, the elves should just take a full attack every round, plinking away.
For Badland's Revenge, Joren's spead should be 50-ft as his barbarian movement is already at 40-ft and the potion of longstrider gives him another 10-ft of movement.
If anyone has noticed further stat block errors in the rest of the scenario, would you please add to this thread. Thanks!
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Sebastian wrote:
By contrast, the rule you have will only come into play when certain specific conditions are met, involves non-intuitive numbers not recorded on the character sheet, and changes each time the character gets hurt or levels.
Good points indeed if it were the player's responsibility to set the target DC. As I, the DM, know the player's maximum hit points and track the damage they've suffered, I should have a Spellcraft DC set by the time the committee has resolved their tactical issues in placing the AoE spell.
Perhaps I am trying to instill the aspects of uncertainty upon the battlefield too much. I believe that is my real source of heartburn with the committee tactics. In a single 3.xE round, equivalent to a "segment" in my old 1E/2E mentality, I have difficulty allowing prolonged discussion about a tactical move. The "fog of war" should affect the PC's ability to recognize the best tactical situations. If a player can use the birds-eye perspective that a battlemat/miniatures provides to their own advantage, great! I hope that during their comrade's initiative, that player was already thinking about their tactics. When they're up, they should know immediately what to do and (hopefully) the rules to resolve the tactic. My issue is when other players interject with "no, you want to put the AoE here so you can get these guys too" or "charge and get an attack this round too". Invariably that becomes the new location of the AoE spell and the player forgoes the double move for a charge attack. Granted, our characters are typically "smarter" than the players running them, especially with wizards. The committee aspect provides a group intelligence that probably corresponds closer to the game mechanic Intelligence of the character.
That is why I am trying to come up with a mechanic that reflects that PC's ability to adjust their thinking in the "fog of war" accurately. A Spellcraft check seems logical to me for designating AoE spells. Perhaps a Level or Wisdom check would work for combat tactics derived by committee. The hit point loss variable to the target DC captures the the "fog of war" element. It always seemed odd to me that a rogue making a Climb check has the same chance of success when at maximum hit points and as when down to his last one. I'm sure such a mechanic wasn't considered because of the constant variables needed to be calculated. To expedite a fantasy RPG, some elements of realism have to be omitted, otherwise we'd all be playing Rifts. ::rimshot::
I have plenty to consider on this. Thank you all that have added input.
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No matter what edition of the game I've played, when it has come to using Area of Effect spells, the centre of the effect's location invariably becomes a committee decision amongst the players. It's only human nature that you want to help your comrades in getting the most "bang" for the spell with the minimal threat to "friendlies" on the board. Lately this "AoE by Committee" process has gotten out of hand in my game and I realize it's time for me to become a "hard-ass" DM about it again.
Back in 1E/2E I used to dock XP but I think there's better potential with the 3.xE mechanics to give a player an opportunity to call on the "committee" but at a cost.
Rexx's thought wrote:
The spellcaster is the sole person to declare the location of an Area of Effect spell. Once they've designated the Area of Effect, they cannot change it without making a Spellcraft check with a DC of 15 plus spell level. The DC has the following modifiers to reflect fatigue/fog of war: +5 if spellcaster is at 51-75% of their maximum hit points; +10 if the spellcaster is at 11-50% of their maximum hit points; +20 if the spell caster's hit points are 10% or less. If another player blurts out suggestions before the Area of Effect is first designated, the spellcaster must make the Spellcraft check regardless of where they finally declare the Area of Affect.
Thoughts? Comments? Suggestions?
Is this a little harsh? Or will such a table rule curtail the in-combat decisions by "committee" that slows the pace of combat more than necessary?
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Thank you MattW and Eltanin (and MeanDM too!) for the immediate feedback. Seems we have a consensus that things were taken a bit too far in the context of "sport". I'm leaning that way as well, as that's my gut feeling after the round was over.
Eltanin wrote:
Certainly some dream warnings, perhaps with a little spanking from the god in question. The Peloran dreams are immediately springing to mind. The cleric is frolicking in a green field, the warmth of the sun upon his/her back. Suddenly, a chill wind comes up and dark and ominous clouds move over the sun. All of the plants in the field shrivel and die, leaving the cleric on a bare cold plain. The frowning face of Pelor forms in the sky, yet sheds no light or warmth on the cleric. Looking up the cleric can only cry, "I thought you were my friend?" Pelor frowns even more deeply and makes a gesture, bringing a flame strike down upon the cleric, who wakes up in a cold sweat.
As I've already had their first night in the Coenoby wracked with nightmares by all the PCs, your suggestion fits in well Eltanin.
Those who may be familiar with the taint rules from Heroes of Horror, would such overkill in a "sporting" event be worthy of a point earned?
MeanDM: my waffling comes from the fact that they all intended to let the adversaries an opportunity to surrender (except Renniga of Arcane Auriga) but used massive damage spells that eliminated any chance of surrender, unless sizzling third-degree burns count as a white flag. So it's a case of what they intended to do did not match their actions. Do I hold their potential alignment conflicts to the word of their intentions, or to the results of their actions? They effectively killed two nuetral/good groups they had agreed to not do mortal blows against.
Further insight and comment welcomed.
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The first round of the Games have been resolved and my PCs were victorious — to the point of being cold blooded murderers.
Agreements had been reached with Badlands Revenge and the Saphire Squad to not deliver death blows. Neverless, the PCs unleashed all sorts of spell power on the other teams, massive sneak damage, and killer tactics to the point only one adversary could surrender. All others were reduced below -10 on their "death blows". They were like titans playing with kittens and not realizing their strength.
Granted, I set up Arcane Auriga to be treasonous in the eyes of the elven paladin, so I have no heartburn with their demise.
The fact that the NG cleric of Pelor was unleashing flame strikes on the agreed "allies" to deadly affect does give me some heartburn though. I've read through the Pelor article in Dragon 246 wondering if the cleric had stepped over the boundary of "good sportsmanship" but the whole concept of the blood sport we call "gladitorial combat" is pretty grey to begin with.
I wonder where I need to go with this in regards to the PC party and specifically the Pelorian cleric and the paladin. Have they broken their sacred vows by using deadly force in a "sporting" event like the Champion's Games? A cleric of Pelor, known for his help to the needy of the Free City, known for his charity, turns into a killing machine on the arena floor. How will the Pelorian faithful react to this demonstration?
Opinions, similar anecdotes, suggestions are welcome. The aftermath of the first round will be explored during tomorrow's (April 10th) game and I like to have a firm "judgement" in mind. Thank you in advance, my fellow Paizo.com peers.
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Deimodius wrote:
SO, my players finally managed to get past the howling face to get to the Grick/Sphere Trap chamber. The decided they wanted to use candles to light all the lanterns instead of the sunrods they had with them, or torches. Even though the text says to light with torches I allowed it.
However, it took them quite a while in the Sphere room, and though it didn't come up, it occurred to me, what if one or more of the light sources in the lantern room is extinguished while the PCs are still on teh other side? Does the Howling Face reappear? How would the PCs escape? SHort of finding some way to dig through the spheres to get to the Grick tunnnel (assuming they know about it) are they screwed? Can Allistor (sp?) use his manifestation ability to go to the Lantern room and relight the lanterns?
Has anyone else had this problem?
There are a few inferred elements here. A torch is typically good for an hour of decent light while a candle tends to burn for much longer with inferior lighting quality. For effect I had the lit lantern's light radiate out towards the psuedo-crypt as separate colours until they mixed and became white light again at the sarcophagus. At this time a white beam of light shot out towards the Howling Face causing its mouth to open and reveal the sphere's hall beyond. You can claim the magic of the lanterns magnifies the candle light sufficiently to do the same. With the long duration of a candle, the PCs should have enough time to explore the areas beyond.
If you want to have a "time is of the essence" feel to this part, have some sort of warning for the PCs that nudges them to hurry up or get out. Perhaps a slight gust of wind passes through the sphere hall at regular intervals and begins to increase as the lantern light source nears the end of its duration, becoming a strong wind in the last minute. This should be sufficient to get PCs out the hall and out to the lanterns again. If they insist on staying...well, Mr. Land has some company for a time at least!
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