At 1st level, 2nd level, and every four levels thereafter, a master of many styles may select a bonus style feat or the Elemental Fist feat
This part means that you may select a style feat such as snake style or grab the elemental fist feat without paying any attention to their requirements. It does not let you grab someting like snake fang without having it's requirements, that'll come later... sort of.
He does not have to meet the prerequisites of that feat, except the Elemental Fist feat.
This means that the only prerequisite you must meet is the Elemental Fist feat. So, for example, if you want to take djinn style you must have grabbed the elemental fist feat first. It does NOT mean you have to meet any of the prerequisites for elemental fist.
Alternatively, a master of many styles may choose a feat in that style’s feat path (such as Earth Child Topple) as one of these bonus feats if he already has the appropriate style feat (such as Earth Child Style). The master of many styles does not need to meet any other prerequisite of the feat in the style’s feat path
Finally this means that a master of many styles may ignore any of the prerequisites of a feat in a styles path provided that he has learned the appropriate style first.
So at 1st level you could take the snake style as a bonus feat and at 2nd level you could grab snake fang as a bonus feat, but you could not take them both at 1st level since you only have one bonus feat.
Alternitively you could start with your other class, grab two levels placing 2 points in sense motive, and then level dip grabbing snake style as your normal feat and snake fang as your bonus feat. That way you can avoid taking more then a 1 level dip in MoMS if that's what you want.
Explosive decompression causes him to take 3d6 hp damage (no save) on the first round of exposure. (This is taken from Distant Worlds.)
I’d probably allow a reflex save for half myself. I would think that if a character immediately expels the air from their lungs they should take little or no damage. The reason for reflex rather than fortitude is that it’s a question of how fast you react and exhale rather than physical endurance.
There is no air to breathe but he can hold his breath for (Constitution score x2) rounds.
As you mention a little later I’d definitely reduce this to their constitution score in rounds rather than double that. Without air in their lungs they definitely shouldn’t be able to hold their breath as long.
I like your idea to let them hold their breath normally and take explosive decompression damage each round. If you do that I wouldn’t allow any save for half damage since their choosing not to exhale. However I think I’d force a fortitude save each round to determine if they are able to keep holding their breath.
Sound does not travel, so V component spells could be hard to cast (if not impossible)
I’d lose the ambiguity, spells with V components would definitely be impossible to cast. A silence spell is much nicer to a person and still prevents them. Also remember that anyone trying to hold their breath normally will be taking constant damage and require concentration checks to cast anything.
One could also argue for the Staggered condition, possibly as a result of the explosive decompression.
Perhaps anyone taking damage from explosive decompression gains the staggered condition for one round? Not as sure about this but it sounds like a reasonable rule.
i could write it in monkey blood i guess. but we have no way to collect any wood, short of deadfall. That and it seems we managed to get nabbed again.
Well it doesn't have to be wood either, but the idea is there, wood was just something that is tends to be readily available. I'm curious where are you now that you can't find any wood? A daggers all you'd need to "collect" some provided their is a tree in the area.
Of course the blood skin and bone of your enemies would work too but that seems a bit morbid... but hey, if it's all you got >:)
But then if you just got caught again you may have to wait a bit but I'd keep it mind.
yea... something like that, shoulda been said at the get go. i've played nerfed char, so i dont mind too much, assuming eventually i'll get access to paper, so i can write my memorized spells down so i can use them more than once.
Just curious… who says you have to use a book or paper? Why can’t you grab some wood, a dagger, and carefully etch your “spell book” using makeshift components? Granted the cost would still have to be the same. Perhaps you would need to treat the wood or some such but for 40 gold worth of components is there any reason why you couldn’t create a makeshift book in the interim?
I have always been under the impression there would be nothing wrong with this, spell books are simply used because they are more convenient but with only 4 spells using 4 good quality boards cut to the right size should work fine. Certainly I allow my players to do so if they need or desire to. Or would that be a house rule? (And if it is maybe you should still ask your GM about it they might agree)
Well, for my dream game room, it’d do something along the lines of the following:
A spacious room with a nice thick carpet on the floor, a dimmer switch to adjust the lighting as desired, and several outlets for laptops and the like.
In the center, a solid hard wood rectangular table that has plenty of room for everyone and comfortable chairs.
Along the outer wall, waist high bookshelves running the length filled with all the appropriate books with a large tinted window that has a nice view and a thick curtain that can cut off all nearly all the light from the window when closed.
Along the inner wall, the door people come in and a large white board with dry erase markers, erasers, and magnetic clips for maps, etc.
Along the DM’s side, a projector in the corner, and a walk in closet with materials, minis, flip mats, etc. that are nice to have on hand but not necessarily always out.
Finally, along the wall opposite the GM, a mini fridge and small table for drinks, snacks, and other goodies, like pizza, maybe even a small microwave for reheating the pizza later in the evening.
Not that I’ve ever thought of this before of course, this is all just off the top of my head and all *cough* ;P
As for where I actually play, in the past it’s been the living room or dining room, usually at someone else’s house or my room on my computer when playing online with some of my friends who have moved away, assuming we can get our schedules to match up.
Well several good possibilities have been stated already but if you just feel the need to be able to defend it by RAW refer to this thread and keep in mind that everything stated would apply to a spell like raise dead as well.
Just decide if you should make it, and thus her, a little higher level, modify the spell in some way, or leave the sorcerer version the same as the cleric equivalent.
Sean K Reynolds wrote:
Okay, let's back up a little bit because people still aren't able to explain, in game mechanics terms, why the +5,000gp cost for raise dead is appropriate.
Umm… I’m pretty sure I did. Though you may disagree with me.
Sean K Reynolds wrote:
For the same reason restoration costs 100 gold when used normally or 1,000 gold when used to remove a permanent energy level. Because whoever wrote it at the time felt that that amount would bring it in line with the power level it was set at. I’m not saying I agree with the cost. In fact, I think if it were reduced I'd be perfectly happy with the change and might even prefer it, but in any case I’d bet that’s why it’s written how it is.
I also agree that there may be other ways to alter the spell and remove the cost but I’m not sure how I’d handle it or if it’s needed.
Sean K Reynolds wrote:
And why is raise dead so costly but teleport and plane shift are not? They're all the same spell level.
But raise dead does more then either teleport or planeshift. I see the cost as the balancing factor. You made a statement ealier…
Sean K Reynolds wrote:
It is literally easier and less expensive to instantly transport eight people to the outer plane where your dead friend's soul is than to call that dead friend's soul back into its natural body. That doesn't make sense to me from a game mechanics standpoint.
At first as was floored, I thought, he’s right if you can cast a spell and go straight to your friends soul the reverse should be any harder. Then I realized that’s not quite right. Yes, you can go to that plane but once you get there you’d have to use a divination spell like scrying to locate your friend, followed by either some overland travel or a teleport spell to reach them.
So raise dead essentially locates the soul on another plane, planeshifts it to your currently plane, teleports it to the body, and then brings the person back to life. Ya, I’m ok with the gold cost now.
Earlier you stated…
Sean K Reynolds wrote:
Either raise dead is on par with other 5th-level spells, or it isn't. If it is, it doesn't need a costly material component. If it isn't, then it shouldn't be a 5th-level spell.
I suppose my response would be that it is, in fact, more powerful then other 5th level spells. But as to removing it I disagree. First, as you pointed out some nasty spells like disintegrate become available and a single bad save can ruin a Players day. I believe their needs to be a way to undo the problems that can occur when the dice gods frown on you. The 5,000 gold piece cost is there to justify making such a powerful spell 5th level.
Secondly, on the fluff side, it makes sense that someone could have reasonably found out a way to cast a more powerful spell by using pricey components that a higher-level spell simply wouldn’t need. And if you existed in such a world and possessed the skill wouldn’t you want such a spell available to you even if it was costly to use?
Having said that I agree with a lot of what has been said and would like really like to see the resurrect spell have the option to use it as a normal raise dead spell without the any material component. I believe I will add that into my games from here on. I may also extend breath of life’s “resurrection” window a little too, possibly to a flat two rounds to allow some breathing room, or perhaps to something like 1 round per 2 caster levels. I’ll have to think about it.
Unintentional bad pun there but I’ll keep it cause it made me chuckle.
Incidentally this is one of the most interesting debates I’ve read in a while :)
If your DM’s allows a minor overhaul swap your intelligence and strength and then apply reduce your wisdom by two (I’m guessing you have 2 points their from leveling but maybe not) and increase your strength to an 18. This will help your attack rolls considerably.
Next I’d look into attribute-enhancing items. Monks can benefit significantly through them and the more you enhance your attributes the stronger you’ll be. Again, make sure strength is boosted if you can but don’t neglect the others. If possible boost all your physical stats and your wisdom.
I would also suggest retraining Djinni style and taking Marid spirit instead and continuing with Marid coldsnap later down the line. Potentially entangling your target is nice and increases the chance that the following attacks will then hit, you can always be using marid style gaining the benefits such as cold resistance and reach. Later when you get whirlwind attack you’ll be able to make a single attack against every opponent within reach (10 feet when using Marid style) which could be fun if you still want to go that route.
Finally, if are allowed to do a little rebuilding and you get your strength up ditch weapon finesse since it’ll be useless. Instead I’d suggest either deep drinker for the extra ki during combat or spring attack to get closer to your goal of getting whirlwind attack.
If you can’t fix your monk or would rather not I’d suggest a ranger. It can be good in melee, has decent saves, plenty of skill points to play with, and I just think they are a fun class to play, of course they can all be fun but we each have our favorites :)
In my personal opinion there really isn’t any clear distinction between the two. The characters a GM creates are simply other characters in a story. Flushing them out simply makes for a better more vibrant story with a world that has more depth to it. I have been GMing over 20 years and work in much the same way, in act based strictly off of what you’ve said in this thread I’d say we have very similar style. Now if I were to define a GMPC as a separate thing I would say that they are characters that have a fully flushed out character sheet AND that have become part of the PC group that adventures together.
As far as warning signs go, I have to say, no they are not any kind of a warning sign. GMPC’s, as I'm defining them, are merely another tool in the GM tool belt. They can be used to flush out an incomplete party in small groups of people, to provide abilities that the party current lack so that they can face an upcoming challenge, or even as simply a way to nudge the party in the right direction or create a greater degree of interactivity between party members and add more role-playing opportunities.
That said, they are a tool that can be easily mishandled. While there is nothing inherently wrong with using them in the story or even having one of them take center stage for a bit, as with any good novel or movie, it’s important to make sure that these occurrences are brief and have a reason to occur within your story. The player’s characters, and not your NPC’s, GMPC’s, or whatever, are the main characters in the story and other characters (of any type) should not overshadow them.
Basically, the danger comes from those GM’s that stop making the story about the player’s characters and the decisions they make. If this happens, most players are likely to start feeling like they are just along for the ride and that can kill a game. But as long as everyone’s having a ball playing and likes were the game is going you shouldn’t concern yourself with the opinions of others.
Having said that, keep in mind that as you can see on this thread, there is no clear definition of what a GMPC is. In fact I almost started arguing with Evil Lincoln after reading his first post but after reading the rest I realized our only real difference of opinion was in our definitions. It’s not in any dictionary that I’m aware off and while definitions of different individuals are often similar, a small difference can lead to a large misunderstanding. This is likely why in some threads you can see such different opinions on them.
Help me understand what it is about these rules that is going to "fix" high level play. By my understanding, the game breaks down severely beyond 12th level (give or take a couple of levels, depending on who you ask). If mythic levels are taken alongside normal class levels (gestalt style?) and that increases the APL of the PCs, how is this patching that issue up?
Well, the way I understand it, and mind you this is just a guess based on everything I’ve been reading on these boards, it will help by allowing lower level characters to fight higher level opponents. This allows a GM to play with a group that say, doesn’t have teleport yet despite being the equivalent of 12th level characters (8 class levels plus 4 mythic levels).
The powers granted, and again this is just speculation, seem to be geared towards strong abilities that give characters fun things they can do without necessarily opening up the harder to deal with abilities such as teleportation and scrying (or at least not till they’d have it anyway through class levels). While a character still eventually gains these abilities, the creatures they are fighting will be considerably higher level by the time they have access to them and thus it’s easier for a GM to adjust, creature will have more options to thwart them, etc.
Again this is all speculation at this point, I’m really hoping one of the developers will hop on now that the weekend over and tell us everything that was said so we can get a better idea of how it all is suppose to work. I’m in the group that thinks it could be good or bad, it remains to be seen. That said, paizo has a pretty good track record so I’m cautiously optimistic and crossing my fingers.
As for the powerful cure light wounds, remember the lower level characters wouldn't have access to higher level magic so the magic they did have would need a strong enough boost to compensate. After all my understanding is that the mythic levels grant hit points etc too so your lower level healing spells would need the boost to keep the party healed.
Time Lord (take 2):
So I made a few changes to flush them out a bit and give an idea of what you could do with them. The time thief is still the basis for everything but I made a few adjustments to make it more interesting, giving them a few flavorful abilities.
Description: The character has a unique relationship with time. This could be a result of magic experimentation, the blood of a powerful race in their background or something else altogether.
Powers: The character has a number of motes of time equal to 2 + half their level, each day after resting they regain any motes they have used. Motes of time may be spent to use any of the following powers. Each power uses exactly one mote of time unless otherwise stated in the description.
1) Act in the surprise round when the character would not normally be able to do so.
2) Gain a bonus to one attack roll, skill check, ability check, or saving throw provided the roll represents a single action that occurs entirely within a one round. When used the character gains a +2 bonus for each time mote spent up to a maximum of +8 if four are used.
3) Take an additional swift action that does not count against the characters normal limit of one per round.
4) Take a move action as a swift action.
5) Heal injuries as if having rested for a full day.
6) Take 10 on any single skill check made before the end of the characters next round.
7) Reroll one attack roll, skill check, ability check, or saving throw provided the roll represents a single action that occurs entirely within a one round.
Mastery: A character that masters this ability gains 2 aevum and the following two powers.
1) Rewind Personal Time – During the characters turn they may spend an aevum to “rewind” their bodies backwards in time. This causes them to undo any and all damage or other effects caused to them during the last round no matter what they were (including healing). Alternatively this may be used on another person for the same effect but doing so cost 2 aevum. Note that this can be used to even bring someone back to life if they died in the previous round. If used on an opponent they are allowed a Will save DC 10 + ½ the time lord character level + INT to negate its effects.
2) Celerity – By spending 1 aevum as a free action the character gains the benefits of an improved version of haste for 1 round per 2 character levels. This has the following benefits.
When making a full attack action, the character may make one extra attack with any weapon she is holding. The attack is made using her full base attack bonus, plus any modifiers appropriate to the situation. (This effect is not cumulative with similar effects, such as that provided by haste or a speed weapon, nor does it actually grant an extra action, so you can’t use it to cast a second spell or otherwise take an extra action in the round.)
The character gains a +2 bonus on attack rolls and a +2 dodge bonus to AC and Reflex saves.
All of the characters modes of movement (including land movement, burrow, climb, fly, and swim) increase by 30 feet, to a maximum of twice her normal speed using that form of movement. This increase counts as an enhancement bonus and it affects the time thief’s jumping distance as normal for increased speed.
Each round, the character may automatically dodge the first ranged attack they are aware of that would otherwise strike them.
Note: You may also want to consider allowing the character to learn other talents, advanced talents, and aevum abilities such as those listed under the time thief by using feats if the player want to expand their abilities further.
You will probably want to add a little more fluff to a few of the abilities but hopefully this works well for you.
I played with your idea and added another possibility, hope you like them :)
Fallen Lord of Hell:
Description: Character is a former lord of hell. He was usurped by another devil lord, and transformed by his successor Asmodeus chose to spare the devil lord's life instead of allow s/he to be destroyed, Asmodeus wipe the character's identity and implanted the character's soul into a baby, to grow and to suffer as a mortal. They are followed by an imp who swears fealty to them, but stays invisible most of the time yet does not (or cannot) reveal his true past. Eventually the character will start to develop devilish features and abilities.
Powers: Darkvision 60 foot (use the range of the characters base race if it is better), resist fire: 5, damage reduction 5/good, +4 bonus to all saves vs poison, protection vs good (3/day), summon devil 1/day (treat as summon monster but only may be used to summon CR equivalent devils or creatures with the fiendish template)
Mastery: A PC that has mastered this ability has their abilities enhanced as follows, darkvision now allows them to see through magical darkness as well as normal darkness, resist fire: 10, damage reduction becomes 5/good and silver, immune to poison, protection vs. good becomes circle of protection against good (3/day), and their summoning ability can be used twice per day instead of once.
Note: Lords of hell often have one or more abilities that are unlike typical abilities of other devils. After character creation I would create one additional ability specifically geared toward the character that had a hellish theme to it as well as an improved version for mastery.
Redemption (an alternate to mastery): If the character maintains a good alignment and adamantly refuses to use their active powers unless there is truly no other choice for an extended period of time, they may eventually be given a chance at redemption by a celestial being or good deity. How this plays out and if it’s successful is up to the GM and the player’s choices, the PC will not be told that they are being tested. If it is successful the PC’s power fade and seem to go away entirely and the imp will be killed, driven off, or leave on it’s own if it has not already happened.
At some future point when the character does something particularly noble and good that endangers them they will feel new power stir within them, a power completely different then what they felt before. The exact powers gained will depend of their alignment, a lawful good character would gain powers similar to that of an archon, neutral good characters would gain powers similar to that of an angel or agathion, and chaotic good characters would gain powers similar to an azata.
Additionally their custom power from being a lord of hell will undergo a dramatic transformation as well and they may gain a new celestial creature that follows them and keeps watch for signs of retribution from their previous life.
And no not Doctor Who ;P
Description: The character has a unique relationship with time. This could be a result of magic experimentation, the blood of a powerful race in their background or something else altogether.
Powers: Each day the character gain a number of motes of time equal to half their level. These motes can be use the same way a time thief uses them.
Mastery: A character that masters this ability gains 2 aevum and two aevum powers appropriate for their charcter from the list under time thief
Note: I really like the time thief, it has some interesting and unique abilities your players probably haven’t seen so I’m stealing the idea for the time lord. Naturally I decreased the number of motes and such since they shouldn’t get a full class worth of abilities. Still I think this should be plenty to keep the player of the time lord entertained.
This amuses me. I have always enjoyed interesting and different ideas provided they are implemented well. May I make some suggestions/alteration? Never mind, I’m going to regardless ;P
The following are your ideas but with some changes to each, use anything you like and don’t if you don’t. I’m just having fun thinking about how I might use your idea should I even choose to xP
Description: A PC is the child of a deity they just don’t know it yet.
Powers: The player’s character may attempt to cast limited wish at will. Each time this is attempted they must make fortitude save and a will against the spells DC in order. Failing the fortitude save results in their failure to hold on the enormous energies required causing the attempt to fail and dealing 4d6 points of damage to the them. Failing the will save means that they fail to properly control the energies resulting in either a random result chosen by the GM or a corrupted wish in which case it works but not as intended.
Mastery: A character that has mastered this ability may choose to either use a limited wish as a full round action with no chance for error or a full wish as per the ninth level spell with the same stipulations they would normally use for a limited wish, using the “spell” DC of the ninth level wish.
Description: A PC is an ancient, a descendent of a lost branch of their race that were mentally superior even gaining access to mental powers that rivaled magic.
Powers: Mind Blast; cone effect, range 20 feet, creatures with Int score must make will save DC 10 + INT mod or be staggered until the end of its next turn. Detect Minds; (acts similar to tremorsense with a range 15 feet, allowing them to sense creatures with an Int Score), and Psychic weapon; can manifest a weapon of any type the character has proficiency with, PC chooses type, identical to normal weapon of that type, but made of pure thought, can manifest and dismiss as free action, if weapon is disarmed or dropped the weapon simply disappears.
Mastery: A character that has mastered this ability has the following adjustments made to their powers. Mind Blast: range increased to 40 feet, DC increased to 10 + ½ their character level + INT, Detect Minds: range increased to 30 feet, and Psychic weapon: the weapon created can have “magical” properties equal to the equivalent of a +3 weapon.
Powers: When a PC is attacked by a monster using a specific named ability (i.e. Ankheg's Acid Line), as long as the PC survives the attack. That PC is then able to mimic the ability once per day until they have absorbed a new attack. This does not work against spells or spell like abilities. The characters basic physical characteristic change slightly depending on the ability gained and this change is noticeable accentuated when using the ability they gained.
Mastery: A PC that has mastered this ability may use the named ability as often as the creature the gained it from. Additionally, when attacked by a new named ability they may choose whether or not to absorb it in place of their current ability. If the choose to absorb it they gain a +4 circumstance bonus to any saving throw against the attack.
Description: A PC is a standard race, but has the blood of a legendary dragon in their family’s linage that grants them powerful abilities.
Powers: Dragon’s breath: Once per day the character may use dragon’s breath as per the spell of the same name using their character level as their caster level. Additionally, the character may only use the breath weapon appropriate for the legendary dragon whose blood flows in their veins. Form of the dragon: As a full round action the PC may attempt to transform into a dragon as per the spell form of the dragon I. This transformation requires a successful fortitude save against a DC of 20 and can only be used for a number of minutes equal to their character level. The character may revert back to normal as a standard action at any time preserving remaining minutes but any time spent transformed is always rounded up to the nearest minute to determine time remaining. As with dragon breath the color of the dragon form must be the same as the legendary dragon in their family history.
Mastery: A character that has mastered this ability has the following adjustments made to their powers. Dragon’s breath is now usable twice a day in their humanoid form. Form of the dragon: no longer requires a fortitude save to transform and now mimics the affects of the spell form of the dragon II. Additionally, the character gains their resistance against the appropriate element permanently even while in their humanoid form.
Description: A PC is a standard race, but is born immortal (highlander style).
Powers: The PC’s body doesn’t age past middle age, or whenever they “die” the first time. At death the PC dies, however after 24 hours have past their body restores itself, whole and uninjured, any body parts removed are restored and the removed piece withers into dust. Can only truly die when the PC’s head is cut off or their body is completely destroyed.
Mastery: The PC gains fast healing: 3. Since the character only dies if they are decapitated or have their body destroyed this fast healing is always in effect, if they are killed they waken uninjured after either 24 hours or however long it takes for this ability to completely heal their injuries, whichever come first.
Description: The PC is the child of a werewolf with astounding mental discipline that mastered their transformation and preserved they mind and alignment (magic my or may not have been used to aid in this).
Powers: The character is a natural lycanthrope. As a result of their parent control and whatever magic was used the PC does not begin showing symptoms until later in life (when the GM decides to introduce it during a full moon).
Changes at night on full moon. Type; shapechanger, Natural armor +2, dr 5/silver in animal and hybrid form.
Change shape (Ex); All lycanthropes have three forms—a humanoid form, an animal form, and a hybrid form. Equipment does not meld with the new form between humanoid, hybrid form and animal form. A natural lycanthrope can shift to any of its three alternate forms as a move-equivalent action. An afflicted lycanthrope can assume animal or hybrid form as a full-round action by making a DC 15 Constitution check, or humanoid form as a full-round action by making a DC 20 Constitution check. On nights when the full moon is visible, an afflicted lycanthrope gains a +5 morale bonus to Constitution checks made to assume animal or hybrid form, but a –5 penalty to Constitution checks made to assume humanoid form. An afflicted lycanthrope reverts to its humanoid form automatically with the next sunrise, or after 8 hours of rest, whichever comes first. A slain lycanthrope reverts to its humanoid form, although it remains dead. An involuntary change always changes a werewolf to its animal form.
Lycanthropic Empathy; In any form, natural lycanthropes can communicate and empathize with animals related to their animal form. They can use Diplomacy to alter such an animal's attitude, and when so doing gain a +4 racial bonus on the check. Afflicted lycanthropes only gain this ability in animal or hybrid form.
Rage (Ex) When first involuntary transformed per full moon a werewolf is possessed by inner reserves of strength and ferocity. A werewolf rages for a number of rounds per day equal to 4 + Constitution modifier. Entering a rage is a free actions. A werewolf in a rage gains a +4 morale bonus to Strength and Constitution, as well as a +2 morale bonus on Will saves. In addition, the werewolf takes a –2 penalty to Armor Class. The increase to Constitution grants the werewolf 2 hit points per Hit Dice, but these disappear when the rage ends and are not lost first like temporary hit points. While in rage, a werewolf cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except Acrobatics) or any ability that requires patience or concentration. Also while in a rage the werewolf cannot distinguish between friend or foe and attacks the nearest creature until it is slain or until it receives damage from another creature, where it turns its attention. The werewolf will always attack the last creature to harm it. A werewolf is fatigued after a rage for a number of rounds equal to 2 times the number of rounds spent in the rage.
Ability Scores: +2 Wis, –2 Cha, in all forms; +2 Str, +2 Con and the scent ability, in hybrid and animal forms. Lycanthropes have enhanced senses but are not fully in control of their emotions and animalistic urges. In addition to these adjustments to the base creature's stats, a lycanthrope's ability scores change when he assumes hybrid or animal form. In human form, the lycanthrope's ability scores are unchanged from the base creature's form. In animal and hybrid form, the lycanthrope's ability scores are the same as the base creature's or the base animal's, whichever ability score is higher.
Mastery: When raging the character may make a will save DC 20 to control their actions for that round. They get a +4 bonus to their save to avoid hurting loved ones or close friends.
Description: The character’s mother is/was a powerful spell caster that was forced to use powerful dangerous magic frequently during her pregnancy. Somehow they survived against all odds and as a result developed a unique ability to absorb magical energy.
Powers: Character absorbs arcane magic in the form of levels. Whenever an arcane spell, which is subject to spell resistance, is cast upon the character, the character makes a will/fortitude save DC 10 + twice the spells level. If successful the character absorbs the spell into their body negating all effects of the spell. The player can release any amount of spell levels as a bolt of arcane lightning in a 30-foot line, a wave of arcane energy in a 20-foot cone, or a close explosive burst of energy with a 10-foot radius. If a character chooses to release their stored spell levels, they must release all stored spell levels. For each spell level absorbed the burst or cone does 1d6 damage, reflex save for half DC 10 + ½ the character level + int modifier. A character can only absorb a number of spell levels equal to their HD. Any excess is immediately released as a 10 ft. burst emanating from the character. A character is always immune to its own arcane damage resulting from this ability.
Mastery: The PC can now absorb up to twice their character level in spell levels and can release however many spell levels they want rather then all of nothing. Additionally the ranges/area of effects of all three possible releases are doubled.
Character is touched by chaos, once per day roll on the table below, the character is affected by the result until the character either next rests for 4 or more hours or until 24 hours have past at which time the character rolls again.
Power: d% Ability
Mastery: The PC has two abilities from the list instead of one, always knows what their current ability is, and may force a reroll of the powers or effects they gained once per day but must take the new results regardless of what they think of them.
Note: I would increase this table to include more non-fiendish things. Chaos does not mean demon. But that’s just my opinion.
Ok, I may have overdid a little. These are, I think, a little stronger then you intended. But hey, I was having fun xP
As far as mastery and how that’s attained, if you like the idea I’ll leave it up to you. The idea of story driven abilities made me think it’d be fun if, at higher levels, when the abilities weren’t all that powerful anymore they could get a nice power boost. Hopefully you find some of this useful/usable but either way it entertained me for a while and that’s what’s important right? ;P
How are you getting from point A to point B here? I agree with you that the healing spells could use a bump in power and never argued that, the point I was trying to make is you are close to giving them to big of a boost in power.
Using only your rules for enhancing cure spells works quite nicely, if you stop there. As I said above the cure light wounds, mass spell would heal 1d8+18 for an average of 22 health per person using just this enhancement and nothing else. This means it would undo most of the damage with a single casting even if everyone failed their save. And those that made their save would be healed for all of damage taken. And this is a 5th level spell, not 8th level one.
Also you aren’t taking into account resistances and abilities like evasion and improved evasion that can seriously hurt the ability for AoE spells to do damage in the first place but have no affect on the players that are being healed. In actual play 22 points per character is good and probably will eliminate the vast majority of the damage dealt by a typical fireball. With your cure critical wounds, mass spell at 5th level you could likely ignore the damage for 2 fireballs without any difficulty and this is simply too much in my opinion.
You seem to have this idea that mass cure spells should be able to at least equal the damage being dealt to the party and that line of thought goes to a bad place, I’ve been their. It’s a world were instead of fighting and defeating the enemy you simply outlast them… whoever runs out of healing first losses. I did not find that particularly fun. Healing spells should be weaker then the damage spells of the same level or the party will fight one fight and if the enemy has even decent healing, win through attrition, and then rest cause their low on healing magic. I can’t reiterate enough I have both been in and ran games were healing was made too powerful and it did not go well. Combat can get ridiculously long, many good tactics are rendered pointless, and the combat itself just stops being fun.
The Aoe numbers look great, however if you ever need to heal more than 4-5 people at a time your party is seriously bloated. This does not mean badwrongfun, it simply means that according to normal average party size you will never reach anywhere near your max number of targets.
Umm... I’m guessing you are again taking about without the changes to cure spells because in my post above I already showed that it only 2 to or 3 party members being healed will net you more healing then even the single target heal spell. Also, 4-5 people does not mean your party is seriously bloated a standard group is assumed to have 4 people and I find most groups have a mount, animal companion, or other creature such as an eidolon. So a normal sized party can often end up with 4-6 members.
More importantly there are a number of situations that you can really get some mileage out of the mass cure spells. Have you never defended an inn, keep, or castle against opponent were their were NPC’s around that could greatly benefit from the healing? How about fighting in a war against an opposing army? I’ve done both, more then once, and while the situations may not be common they aren’t all that rare either… at least they haven’t been for me. Remember the spell doesn’t have to only target party members. Oh, I can’t believe I almost forgot an example… How about when you are fighting undead? Heal the whole party and deal some damage to the enemy at the same time. And I don’t think I’ve ever seen a campaign were undead were not encountered.
Anyway I apologize if any of this sounds argumentative. It’s hard to tell on the Internet sometimes. I like playing with house rules and have played with healing spells myself. A little improvement is good but I found the long drawn out battles that result from over doing simply aren’t any fun and I’m hoping you can learn from my mistakes :)
1) Healing changes
I agree that cure spells tend to be lacking and need enhanced but would simplify your changes to them to just; all cure spells have the bonus healing due to the characters level doubled.
I’m not sure why you think mass cure spells are a trap you can try and say that they don’t heal as well but that’s not accurate. How much net healing you can gain is considerably higher. For example at 9th level a cleric has both critical and cure light wounds, mass. Cure critical would heal 4d8+18 for an average of 36 hit points, while the cure light wounds, mass spell would heal 1d8+18 for an average of 22 health per person. Heal just two characters and you net an average or 44 hit points worth of healing and, theoretically, you can heal up to 9 for an average or 198 hit points worth of healing. Now I’ll grant you that a situation like that will rarely happen but still healing 2 or 3 party members at once and from a distance without having to take attacks of opportunity etc is pretty nice, I certainly wouldn’t call it a trap.
As for heal, I believe most people will agree that it’s one of the most powerful healing spells in the game and probably over powered for its level. That said, I would personally just lower the healing to 7 hit points per caster level and leave the rest alone. I think that would be sufficient to bring it down to a more appropriate power level.
For a comparison consider heal and cure moderate wounds, mass both gained by a cleric at 11th level. Heal would allow a single target the cleric touches to be healed for 77 hit points and remove an array of different effects from them. Cure moderate wounds, mass wound heal 2d8+22 for an average of 31 health per person affected but could heal the entire party simultaneously granting a net healing from 31 to 124 depending on the number of party members effected. This healing could be done from 50 feet away without endangering the cleric and could heal for significantly more if there are more characters in the party or if NPC’s, animal companions, etc, around that need healing as well.
2) I require from my players a written background, of at least one paragraph.
Sounds good to me.
3) I have banned leadership and antagonize. (I hate these feats, I may be wrong.)
I see no problems with this… and you can’t be wrong, it’s your opinion and you have a right to it.
4) I have removed the faction requirements for "Master Performer and Grand Master Performer."
Not sure where these are from so I have no opinion.
5) I require all players that choose to play paladins to sit down with me and hammer out the details for their particular paladin’s code before play starts.
Sounds good. In my opinion paladins are always need a sit down with the GM to be sure you’re both on the same page as to how they should behave and what acceptable.
6) Magic item creation and use changes
Not sure about your reasoning here. You say quote realism as being one reason you did. That way you don’t have to mysteriously arrange for an enemy to just happen to drop a certain magic item… except what the chance a person is going to be walking around with unused imbues? Seems awfully unlikely to me unless they happen to be an enchanter. Honestly I’d consider a different approach.
Perhaps allow skilled artificers to swap permanent enchantments for a fee. That way if you find a flame sword you can have it added to your +3 axe and either loss a bonus to the axe and pay a small fee or add both together and add a significantly larger fee. Something along these lines would probably be more realistic then a bunch of enemies that got imbues but never actually got around to using them.
7) Players need to fill out the following questionnaire. Vague answers are ok, this is just to get the player involved with the character as a person rather than a collection of stats.
I would divide it into 2 parts, physical description where all of the “questions” must be answered, and the other half where I’d ask for something like answer any 5 of the following 10+ questions. That way theirs some wiggle room. I for one enjoy developing my characters but never do it all at once. I get ideas that I use for starting points and then flush them out more as I play. So a detailed, or large questionnaire, would bother me quite a bit since you wouldn’t have given me the time I need to “feel out” my character.
8) I give one free Hero point to anyone who fills out the questionnaire and then types a back story that is at least one page double spaced size 12 times new roman font.
I see no problems with that. Can I assume you still get this upon completion even if you don’t get everything filled out until several sessions in? As I mentioned above I doubt I’d be done on day 1 and would be irritated if I were penalized for taking a few game sessions to get a good feel for my character.
While your system my be forgiving there are a number of situations that can arise that can make retrieving a body within the specified time impossible, if it can be done at all. Since the consequence of this if permanent character death I would rather not play with those rules myself. A few examples include falling of a cliff, falling into a pit of lava, being completely disintegrated, teleported into a trap, or plane shifted to a hostile environment.
The main problem I see is that as characters get higher and higher level the chance for something like this happening to them continues to increase. If I played a character to, let’s say 15th level, and then got plane shifted to the plane of fire by a prismatic spray and died permanently as a result, I would not be happy. The longer you play a character the more you tend to get attached to them (in my experience anyway). Normally, high levels means you can usually recover a lost character but with these rules it just means a higher chance for permanent death.
Personally my preference would be to switch your minutes to rounds to add a sense of urgency in combat to hurry and heal a fallen comrade and then make the resurrection type spells more costly, possibly even requiring a successful save to be brought back to life with a DC the increases the longer you have been dead. That way high-level characters aren’t killed permanently due to a bad die roll in an unfortunate situation.
Another way to speed things up is to share NPC's AC with the players, this is one less piece of information that has to go back and forth between you and the players.
I do that as well, though I never give the information until after a player has committed to attacking them. My players sometimes ask questions like, "I'll attack the golem with my longsword, what's it's AC?" I find it's easier to let them know then to have to figure out which attacks hit and which don't by asking me each time.
Evil Lincoln wrote:
I can see how it could be problematic if you and your group aren’t used to group initiative but I’ve found the solutions for those two particular problems, both are fairly simple and have worked well for me for many years.
First, inform your group that you’ll be using group initiative and that they are welcome to collaborate and strategize with one another… However, and this is very important, when you ask “Who’s ready?” you expect someone to step up and take their turn. If no one does you can and will skip the players turn and they can try again during the next round.
Then when it’s the parties turn give them a brief moment (how brief is entirely up to you) and then ask who’s going. If no one steps up to go simply say the following: “Well, if no one’s ready I’m going to go ahead and go again, anyone?” I don’t think I have ever needed to skip the players’ turn to get them moving and once a group gets used to it you only have to ask that question once in a while to get things moving. Usually, if you do, it’s because things are not going well and they’re uncertain how to salvage a bad situation. If your feeling generous, give them a little extra time to strategize otherwise repeat the statement mentioned above.
As for tracking who’s gone… don’t. If you know everyone’s gone great start the creatures turn. But if you aren’t 100% simply ask “Is that everyone?” If your group says yes, or if no one responds, go ahead and go. It isn’t your responsibility to ensure that they have gone it’s theirs and if they aren’t paying attention and haven’t gone they lose out.
To sum it up, you are giving the players the opportunity to work together and strategize but in return you expect them to be prompt and take responsibility for whether or not they have gone. I’ve been using this for many years and never had any real problems. Once in a while I have to give a warning that I’m going to go if someone doesn’t step up and start their turn but so far I’ve never had to actually had to actually skip the whole group. That said, I have on rare occasion skipped a player that was to busy talking or otherwise not paying attention when I asked if that was everyone was done. But they know that’s their responsibility and I’ve never had any arguments from my players about it, at most they look sheepish and that doesn’t generally happen again for quite some time.
Anyway, hopefully that helps, if not perhaps it’s not for you. Though if you haven’t tried the things I mentioned above I’d give it another try before deciding, expect it to take a session or two for everyone to get used to it, but probably no longer then that, good luck.
edit: added the quote I was replying to xP
Would they still try and alter animals around giving them different traits to enhance them?
I’d say it’d depend on their alignment. A good druid would be more prone to protect or relocate existing aberrations in an attempt to give them a chance to shine. An evil druid might have no problems experimenting and trying to help nature along, so to speak. A neutral druid could go either way but wouldn’t want to risk hurting the animals or plants he wanted to modify and would want to be sure he wasn’t doing more harm then good so it’d take him longer if he did at all. At least those are my views on it.
If in fact it was a Alien druid what might his wildshape be and animal companion options be.
Most likely those abilities would replicate natural creatures from the world/plane that he originates from. You’d have to have an idea what those would be first of course which would probably take a bit of work. To simplify you might try creating a template and say that for the most part similar creatures exist but have the template applied to them then fluff the appearance a bit and your good to go. If you try something like that don’t forget that the template shouldn't really make the creatures stronger just different. Otherwise the entire power would need to be rebalanced.
Aberrations don't have to have anything to do with dungeons. Here’s one way you could play it…
Druids that command aberrations view them as simply a step in the evolutionary chain that may or may not become the norm depending on how successful they are, how many others are born with the aberration, and blind luck.
Say a fish is born with gills that allow it to walk on land, albeit in a limited fashion. None of the other fish can, obviously this fish is an aberration to the norm. But its ability allows it to forage for food where other fish can’t and escape purely aquatic predators. It manages to not only survive but also thrive and has young that inherit the same ability. Years later it’s now a new species of fish.
An aberration oriented druid looks for creatures that are unique or have unique traits and tries to give them the chance to shine, grow, and thrive without being done in by some random misfortune thereby allowing nature to grow, adapt, and strengthen more rapidly.
Short version: They are about evolution.
Well done, I really like your guide and how you approached it. I’d like to do something like this for the core monk and all of their archetypes but it’d take forever and be a full sized book when finished xP Over all I think I agree with most everything you said though I have to say beastmass wasn’t exactly fair to the creatures.
Intelligent creatures don’t leave their treasure sitting in a pile in the corner waiting for and adventure to take it after they have been defeated. Try equipping them with some of their treasure and I bet one will be hurting by the end of the first day (if he survives at all) and never make it to the end of the second. Still, it did show off the Zen archer’s abilities nicely even if it wasn’t quite accurate in that regard.
I agree that the sensei looks like he could be fun to play. Unfortunately their seems to be a fair amount of ambiguity as to how exactly his advice ability works. For example, I'm still trying to figure out exactly what happens if a sensei uses battlemind link with his advice ability. I actually started a similar thread here to try and get a better feel for how he works but never got all of my questions answered as well as I'd have liked.
Group initiative - everyone rolls normally to start things off but I always do all of the enemies together and once they have gone it simply cycles back and forth between the party and the enemies with the party going as a group without regard for the order in which they rolled initiative. That way you simply go with whoever is ready and keep the game moving.
Laptops - I enjoy rolling dice but the dicebot's ability to roll and add a bunch of numbers from a macro is really nice at high levels. Over time I've gotten used to using it and if you have internet access you can look things up fast as well. Also, while I prefer to look things up in my books you can open and run a search of a pdf faster to easily look things up if you need to.
Group leveling - Have everyone level together after the game is over for the night, they can check each other and gab about the game and their plans for the next day without slowing down the game or being distracting. You can also do a similar thing during lunch or dinner if you know everyone should have the xp to level.
Relax - Don't worry or let yourself get wound up if things seem to be taking longer then you planned. No matter how much you plan and prepare there are never any guarantees and getting stressed will probably only slow things down more. As long as everyone having fun go with the flow and enjoy yourself.
Plan shortcuts if needed - if you really want a group to be able to finish an adventure before the mini con is over look at things ahead of time and think about what you can cut if you need to. For example drop a random encounter or make the creatures in a room easier so the group will blow through them and get on to the more important encounters so they can reach the end.
Be ready to add content - the reverse of the above is also possible if the group is using their not inconsiderable resources well or making unexpected choices and bypassing things you thought they'd do, essentially "skipping to the end". I find this to be pretty rare but I've seen it happen before so having something such as a couple wanderings in you pocket just in case can be a good idea.
Don't hide armor class, DC's, and other such checks - I don't tell a player a creatures armor class until they attack it but once they commit to an action I'll tell them what they need to succeed, it's easier and faster then having them ask repeatedly if an attack hit or not.
Hope everything goes well, it's been far to long since I've had the opportunity to do something like a mini con but they're usually fun.
One of the most common questions I use as GM is, "Are you sure?" I’d at least have given him this much when he said what he was going to tell muscles. Any time a player says that they want to do something I feel their character would probably not do because they’d know better I ask this. I also generally allow players to make an intelligence, wisdom, or skill check as I feel is appropriate for a hint as to what I perceive as being a problem (Providing this is the first time they made this mistake). Afterward, I usually let them squirm and scramble for a minute. Then, in the interest of keeping things moving, I tell them I need an answer or they’ll miss their turn.
The way I see it, people make mistakes. Whether they forgot or simply didn’t learn it well enough I don’t know so I typically give them the benefit of the doubt. Case and point, as wraithstrike pointed out above you yourself erred as to what the rule was. All of that said, I think your solution; using a grateful NPC to provide a raise dead and restoration for free is fair.
Some GM’s really dislike it when players ruin their carefully laid plans and go well beyond what I feel they should to prevent it from happening. For example, they may fudge saving throws, skill checks, etc. to ensure that their well made BBEG doesn’t die to fast and ensure things go "as planned".
It sounds to me like he decided to create a template just for the express purpose of being able to give himself a “legitimate” reason why these things won’t work without “cheating”. Personally if a GM ran a template like this in a game I played in I would probably talk to him about it after the game and in all likelihood bow out and go elsewhere if it was going to continue to be used.
If a GM wants to create a reasonable explanation why something doesn’t work that’s fine. In fact I find it can be a lot of fun. You start asking yourself questions like "Is there any way I can use this to my advantage?" But as a player, I strongly dislike GM’s simply stopping something just because it’s not what they wanted or expected to happen. Consequently, powers that amount to it doesn’t work because I said so just don’t fly with me.
And honestly I don't like it as a GM either, I actually enjoy it when my players surprise me, after running games for over 20 years I think I’d be bored of it by now if they didn’t. Naturally all of this is just my opinion, if you are enjoying the game, then keep playing, there’s certainly nothing wrong with that.
Possibly something like this:
1st – Selective channel
And yes I know he's 12th but I was trying to plan ahead a little, at 13th level he can cast heal and echo it for another heal or memorize a reach heal in a 7th level slot for healing party members across the battlefield without going to them and then echoing it so he can do it again. At 15th level he can do the same kind of things spontaneously allowing him to free up those slots for other spells like buffs, attack, spells, etc. for times when the party just doesn't need the healing.
One thing you may have missed and is important to realize, is that wizards do not have to prepare all of their spells ahead of time. With 15 minutes of study they can “prepare” an unused spell slot with any spell in their spell book of that level or lower. Because of this they often leave a few slots open just for this purpose. Naturally how many spell slots are left open will be dependent how many total spell slots they has at their current level. While this isn’t helpful in the middle of combat it does allow them to adapt to a wide range of situations.
In fact this is one of the wizards main strength's, always being able to have the right spell for the job. As far as their standard spell selection goes its not to hard to put together a decent list of daily spells that they always like to have memorized for combat or frequently occurring situations. If you or one of you player's needs help figuring out what's good, several people on this forum have made guides for most of the different classes in pathfinder, links these guide have been mostly compiled into a thread named Guide to the Guides here is a link
Having many house rules myself I see nothing wrong with making house rules as you want to whatever you want. That said, if you've never played pathfinder before you might want to play a couple of times to get a feel for it before you change things. That way you'll have a better idea of how they work, if you actually want to change them, and how to change them if you do.
Oh and as to your original question, I myself have an optional spell point system that my players may use if they wish. I've always liked being able to cast spells more freely then the current system allows for. There are several alternate ways you can handle spells if you want more casting freedom but you'll need to carefully consider how it'll affect all of the different spell casting classes.
Thanks, that answers 1 of the questions. Any more ideas about the others?
Personally my opinions are as follows.
1) Yes, bard feats like lingering performance or extra performance should be able to be taken since it is supposed to be identical to the bard's ability. In my mind if it doesn't work they can't be considered identical.
2) No idea what feat to remove but I'm pretty sure either the one at 1th or 14th level should be removed. Until told otherwise I'll probably take away the level 10 one but that's just arbitary, I have no idea which it should be.
3) Yes, answered and the reason is linked above (thanks again)
4) Yes, I see no reason why it shouldn't so I'll probably treat it this way unless someone can give me a reasonable reason why this should not be the case.
5) Yes I believe he can dimension door the party, but I'm not sure if he could change where appear with regards to each other. I'd probably rule against it unless I am told otherwise or given an example of a time when this is allowed so I at least have a precedent.
6) I think he can but really don't know how to rule on who decides who is battlemind liked to who.
7) I tend to agree that deuxhero's interpretation is the most likely I can think of so far, though I don't really like it as it stands. It may not be RAW or RAI but for my home game I'll probably rule that any saves that would be made against a poison or disease during the time a character has immunity are automatically treated as having succeeded.
I kind of like your 2nd idea but would suggest modifying it as follows:
Any metamagic a spell caster knows can be spontaneously applied to any spell upon casting. Doing so requires the spell caster to make a Spellcraft check equal to 15 + twice the spells modified level. If this check fails the spell is lost and has no effect. A Spells modified level cannot be higher then the highest level spell of that type that they can cast.
This allows a spell caster to try and modify a spell of the fly if they need to but also lets them to memorize them with the metamagic feat added to it to prevent any chance of spell failure.
Adding a question:
7) If a sensei uses mystic wisdom to grant an ally immunity to disease or poison via purity of body or diamond body what happens to any disease or poison currently affecting them? Is is neutralized? I like the idea that they could use this ability to cure others but I'm not sure if that's how it's supposed to work.
Also there have been so few responses if you aren't chiming in because you aren't sure of the answers please click faq. I'd really like to have a solid understanding of how the sensei should work.
And Qingqong Sensei actually (sadly) gives a point to the "self only" note on True Strike.
Actually, I don’t see why the sensei’s mystic wisdom ability wouldn’t allow you to affect your party members with true strike, several other abilities I do know it effects normally only effect the sensei. Or can you cite something that would indicate otherwise?
3) Yes, you are your own ally.
While I agree with your belief is their anything in the book or from a developer that shows this, or is it simply your opinion? I’m trying to be as sure as I can about these since I’m considering adding a number of basic builds to my guide and wouldn’t want to steer anyone wrong if I do.
Anyone else have any thoughts as to the RAW, RAI, or even just how they would rule?
All right, so as some of you may or may not know monks are one of my favorite classes. I even wrote a guide for playing them. Recently however I ran into a problem of sorts. I wanted to make a sensei for a support oriented build and found several points unclear. Now it’s easy enough for me to house rule in my own game and the games I play in are similar so I could simply state my belief on how it should go and ask for a ruling, but I’d like to know what the community thinks and if anyone knows if any of these questions has been answered in errata or by one of the paizo staff.
1) The advice ability states that it is identical to bardic performance. Does that mean you can take lingering performance with it?
2) Mystic wisdom states that it replaces the monk’s bonus feats at levels 6, 12, and 18. One problem, monks don’t get a bonus feat at level 12. So should it replace one gained at 10, 14, both, or neither?
3) At 12th level a sensei can use mystic wisdom to give an ally within 30 feet one of several monk abilities such as evasion or fast movement. Can he choose himself? And when using mystic wisdom to grant an ability to all allies in range does he count as an ally to himself?
4) Since mystic wisdom uses the monk’s advice ability does it benefit from lingering performance if the monk has it?
5) Can a sensei use mystic wisdom to dimension door party members with abundant step? If so what happens when he tries to dimension door the entire party? Do they all arrive in the same relative locations to each other or can he place them in different spots?
6) What happens if a sensei uses battlemind link on the party? Or can he? If he can, does he choose the target they link to or do they?
For clarity, since their seems to be some confusion on the subject.
At 1st level, as part of a full-attack action, a maneuver master can make one additional combat maneuver…
Emphasis mine. This means that when a maneuver master uses a full attack action they can use an additional combat maneuver, it does not state that you have to be attacking with your regular attacks or using other maneuvers so that is your choice. Either way you still get the additional combat maneuver(s) as dictated be the flurry of maneuvers.
You cannot however, use one of the bonus maneuvers as a regular attacks. The ability specifically states you gain additional combat maneuvers, and normal attacks are not combat maneuvers.
Can you give any advice on how I should be building the enemies. Should I include more skill stealth enemies or just more mooks style ones.
I always suggest variety, plan for a combination of weak and tough fights and make those fights vary as well. You could have a challenging fight with a horde of goblins one time and a carefully decked out evil party another time. So some fight should be stealth, other brute force, etc. Don’t limit yourself to just one encounter design.
For balance issues low-level mooks are easier to balance simply by adjusting numbers. When designing challenging fights with fewer enemies it gets more difficult since they tend to be power houses and thus do significantly more damage and may kill someone. That said at around 14th level or a little below (guessing based on the enemies level) they should be able to raise dead, probably resurrect, and of course breath of life is a lifesaver, literally.
Personally I play with a house rule that regardless of how much damage someone takes a character does not die until exactly one round later. If they are healed within this time they can fully recover. This lets me take the gloves off, so to speak, when making a truly frightening enemy that would otherwise kill several party members before being dropped, and the panicked rush to heal characters before they die helps create tension. Just don’t overuse this if you decide to do something similar. It can go from having fun and challenging to irritating and old quickly if overused. Players do not like having to spend a large portion of battles running around healing other or getting back on their feet rather then fighting.
Also I would seriously consider splitting the group into two separate groups, as mentioned that would help considerably when trying to balance encounters as well and might be your best option.
Also a while back a PC died to a haunt and liking his character he just added a "II" and just used his background…
I’m confused, you have a party with nine gesalt characters, all about what? 10th to 14th level or pretty close to that, giving a total of 18 classes and no one has raise dead or resurrection? Now I can’t remember of something happens to the body or not when a haunt kills someone but still I'd expect characters at that level to have the ability to get their hands on a true resurrection if they had to. But then again, I don’t know the situation, or how you play, or if I'm right about their respectively levels.
His out of game reasoning was "I've already made one character for this campaign It's not like I'm gonna build another"
If this was word for word it kind of sounds to me like he doesn’t really care about the game and is just there to goof off and socialize. Naturally I could be completely wrong, I don’t know the situation nearly well enough, but if that is the case I’d consider dropping him. It sounds like he is becoming a source of disruption within the game and if it continues it’s likely to get worse.
Now personally I hate dropping someone that’s there to play but I have to ask, is he? Again I don’t know enough to judge this but if you don’t think he is I’d cut him or t least have a talk with him.
also he said if there was a losses were even if there was a TPK minus him.
I had difficulty reading/understanding this but it kind of sounds again like he isn’t invested in the group. Players have a responsibility to make and play their characters while keeping party cohesion in mind. Even in groups where a GM allows evil characters to be played this is important or a group would just fall apart. With nine people there, be certain that everyone is trying to not only have fun but also help the others in the party have fun too.
Well hopefully at least some of this helps. I almost didn’t post since there is so much information I’m lacking so please take everything I said with that in mind.
While I take my hat off to you for wanting to provide a truly unique experience for your players and really change things up I’m afraid that this particular method will be ultimately futile. Here are a few problems with your current scenario.
1) We exist and experience time in a linear fashion and, not surprisingly, trying to imagine anything else is very difficult and any attempt to get around this is likely to come across as very clunky.
2) Starting at the end with the BBEG dead is sort of anticlimactic. Yes Suddenly he is alive and you have to fight him but honestly if you already know you kill him then it’s just crunching numbers till you are back were you started.
3) Since you don’t know how things will go it’s impossible to accurately describe the beginning of the fight, were characters health are etc.
And these are merely a couple of my initial thoughts, I’m sure I could come up with more problems, in fact I have already but I won’t bother adding them at this time. If you are absolutely intent on doing I think Naedre's idea is probably the best I've heard to do something like that, though it would only be effecting the BBEG and not the players and I think it would still feel a little clunky.
Now if you are not adverse to a different approach I have played a bit with the realm of madness and here are a few ideas I like using.
Create a list of changes to physics/magic and roll a die at regular intervals to see what changes. For example, gravity could change to a random direction. One or more characters or perhaps an entire area could be rewound in time undoing anything that was just done to them or it. Energy types on spells and even normal effects could change so you could have fire generate cold instead of heat. Some effects can even be harmless, like fire light suddenly turning green. Let the players minds run as to what implications that may have.
Some effects may have durations and others may last until the end of the battle, or at least until you roll that it changes again. Meanwhile being from the realm of madness I’d give the BBEG one extra ability, let him know what has changed so he can act accordingly to best make use of it. After all you’d expect creatures that live in that kind of a chaotic environment to adapt to survive or even thrive in it. So if all fire was suddenly more intense he might cast a fireball, etc.
In any case I hope these ideas are useful to you, good luck with whatever you decide to go with.
Having been a DM for over 20 years I have to say we aren’t perfect. Sometimes we have misconceptions and need to be educated. I think most of us are willing to try new things, if our players what to try something different we will work them to see how it goes, and in doing so sometimes learn something that leaves us more knowledgeable and better DM’s then we were before.
I understand your DM’s point of view as well as his reluctance. Dedicated healers are needed in many fantasy RPG games, especially computer RPG’s, and the thought the party needs one tends to be become a little ingrained. After all his main concern, presumably, is that the party will wipe or players will die which is rarely fun.
When you sit down with the group encourage the player of the barbarian to stick with his choice and say it’s worth trying to do without a dedicated healer to see how it goes. Also, point out that it’s not some random stranger but a lot of other gamers like yourselves that have played in or ran pathfinder games in which there was no dedicated healer, and that, while there is a little bit of a learning curve, we found it doable.
In short, some DM’s are stubborn and need to see first hand that something works but if you “force” our hand you may be glad you did since it’ll help us learn and potentially break one or more of the misconceptions we have about the game as well as letting all the players make and play the characters they want.
Having said this, a note for the group. When going without a healer there is a bit of a learning curve and it does add additional expenditures to the party (though at higher levels cost tends to stop being an issue). Also you have to think ahead and make sure you have your bases covered. As has been mentioned above, not all damage is hit point damage, you’ll need to be able to cover, disease, poison, ability damage, etc. as well (though not all at first level of course). Still, if you plan for it, it is doable, and ultimately what's important is that everyone is having fun.
Well the one possibility I can see for recovery is the cleric. On page 191 of the CR are rules for recovering from negative hit points without help and at the bottom of a pit seemingly dead there is a very real possibly that the dragon ignores the body giving him a chance to recover. Also at his level with presumably a good fortitude save I'd say his chances for waking on his own are good.
Once awake healing himself is easy... given that he's a cleric and all. The tricky part will be escaping alive with or without the other characters bodies. If he can, 13th level is high enough he should be able to rez the rest of the party himself.
If he can't reach the bodies, for whatever reason, to dangerous, no longer there, been eaten, etc. he could escape and follow up on the idea mentioned above. He could gather or hire a new adventuring party with which to confront the dragon and try again as proposed above.
I did hear an interesting option (may have been Game Masters Guide) that you have them play a new party trying to rescue the old party and then once they have done so each player can choose between their new and their old characters.
This option gives them a chance to recover, by the rules, without making it easy or making the players think you'll be a push over in the future should anything like this ever happen again. In fact, I think if it's done right they might even be on the edge of their seats knowing this is their very last chance to recover there characters.
Well, I’ve stated my opinion and thus far it hasn’t changed though this discussion has been very interesting and I have learned a few things that made me think through everything some more. I was going to bow out quietly but I thought I’d throw out some food for thought. Take this for what you will.
This didn’t read right to me so I wanted to run some numbers. Please keep in mind that these numbers are not meant to be an accurate representation of how a group spends their money on crafting but rather to give me a better idea of the wealth advantage potentially possessed by characters that craft.
Each of the following is a break down of % magic item wealth and % gold wealth. I then make a few stated assumptions about how the loot is used in the imaginary group simply to look and the resulting discrepancies in the crafters net value vs. the groups net value
<disclaimer>I am tired and the numbers or equations may or may not be correct, I’m generally good with math but as I said I’m tired, if I’ve made errors feel free to correct them, also this post is a bit long</disclaimer>
the crafter could turn his share into 200% value worth of magic items +60% from the gold value gained from the group for a total of 260%worth of magic items.
The rest of the group would net 180% value worth of magic items.
Netting the crafter a 44% increase over the rest of the party, ouch.
100% magic items
The crafter can customize his share but still has 100% wealth, but before continuing we have to make an assumption about how many items are turned over vs kept. Lets say 50%. So he would make +15% theoretically turning it into a total of 130% worth of magic items.
Meanwhile, the rest of the party would have customized gear and be at 95%
Netting the crafter about a 37% increase over the rest of the party, wow still quite a bit higher then I'd have guessed.
The crafter can customize his share and double half of it to 150% wealth, but again before continuing we have to make an assumption about what the party turns over vs keeps. Lets say the 50% gold. So he would make +15% theoretically turning it into a total of 180% worth of magic items.
Meanwhile, the rest of the party would have 50% base +90% customized gear and be at 140%
Netting the crafter about a 29% increase over the rest of the party, better but again still quite a bit higher then I'd have guessed.
The crafter can customize his share and double the 20% giving them 120% wealth, but again before continuing we have to make an assumption about what the party turns over vs keeps. Lets say the 20% gold. So he would make +6% theoretically turning it into a total of 132% worth of magic items.
Meanwhile, the rest of the party would have 80% base +36% customized gear and be at 116%
Netting the crafter about a 14% increase over the rest of the party, the closest to what I usually see in the groups I’ve played with but I realize groups vary greatly. Over all not to bad at all, imo anyway.
Now at this point I was going to stop but then I thought of something. Some have stated that if a crafter wants to craft for themselves that’s fine, it’s just the “exploitation” of taking other characters wealth that they objected to. Most have not but a few did and it got me wondering what the discrepancy was before crafting for the other party members. This was the results:
the crafter could turn his share into a total of 200% value worth of magic items.
The rest of the group would purchase 100% value worth of magic items.
Netting the crafter a 100% increase over the rest of the party.
100% magic items
The crafter can customize his share but still has 100% wealth.
As before I will make the assumption that the party turns 50% of their items into gold and purchase more useful equipment. This leave them with 75% of the original wealth.
Netting the crafter about a 25% increase over the rest of the party.
The crafter can customize his share and double half of it to 150% wealth
As before the party spends their gold and keeps their items giving them a total of 100% value worth of magic items.
Netting the crafter a 50% increase over the rest of the party.
The crafter can customize his share and double the 20% giving them 120% wealth.
Here again I’ll assume the rest of the group only uses their gold to purchase items giving them 100% wealth in magic items.
Netting the crafter a 20% increase over the rest of the party.
Of course all of this assumes the crafter makes everything meaning they have a lot of time and all of the necessary feats so this is a worst-case scenario. It also assumes that the party sits still for the entire time waiting for everything to be crafted. Still it is quite a bit more then I expected. Someone want to check my math? I am really tired.
Anyway, from what I am seeing a crafter is normally running between 25% and 100% higher then the party if he only crafts for himself. On the other hand if he charges a 10% fee the difference the difference between his wealth and the parties wealth actually shrinks typically ranging from around 14% to 44%. Naturally if he charged nothing it’d shrink more but I think it’s fair to say he’s not further increasing his power beyond that of the party since overall their net benefit is typically greater then the crafters.
This is not 100% true of course, as you can see there exist corner cases but I believe they would be extremely rare. Understand I’m not saying this is how people should play. For me this has been an exercise in curiosity. I still stand by what I said in my original post, find out the type of group you are in before deciding what to do and avoid any player arguments. In short have fun, as long as you are none of the rest really matters.
Well I'm not going to try, to tired, but if anyone does want to try you'll have to set a standard gold wealth vs item wealth first. That is to say what percentage of the parties incoming wealth is from gold vs from found magic items. Without that bit of info it'd be hard... ok unless it was part of the equation. Grrr... now you got me curious and it's going to bug me <glares at Ravingdork> ;P
Adamantine Dragon wrote:
Even during down time when there is no one shouting for help and you aren’t adventuring? I’ve never considered good meaning must work for free. You have stricter standards than I. <shrug>
And just to be clear when I say not adventuring I mean between adventures not in town (if it matters).
but you're not really losing two weeks. you're losing 4 hours a day, which is trivial in game. now i'll admit, that's a good chunk of time every day. but as someone else said, even with the highest profession check (dc30), you can only make 3d6 gold per day. so time, even for the most expert of people, isn't worth 100 gold a day. but if the other people aren't contributing to help you out while you're helping them out, then they're not good companions, and charging, while i think 10% is too much from a gameplay standpoint, becomes less of an issue
In game sure but I consider 4 hours a day a large chuck of time for someone to ask for every day for weeks. Also I never said only 4 hours a day I was thinking in town working for 8 hours a day for a couple weeks. As for what fee is reasonable I didn’t quote an amount or percentage. And while I think 10% is fair I run in a high magic world and do wages differently (house rule). In a normally RAW game I may ask for signifiacantly less idk.
real life examples aren't applicable because most of us can't do what our characters can
That can be a cop out. The entire game is fantasy but that doesn’t mean we ignore things such as gravity. Magic might let us do exactly that and damage for falling is pathetic to a high level character but we don’t throw gravity out altogether. So real life examples are fine but like everything subjective. Those that play from a “real-life” perspective are simply trying to envision the fantasy world in question and play as they believe the character would act if it were real.
Adamantine Dragon wrote:
Actually I disagree, elaborating on what I said above a little from the “real-life” perspective if you have me spend say two weeks of my free time making items for you at cost and you save 10,000 gold then you just got 10,000 gold and I lost 2 weeks… who’s profiteering? Meanwhile if I at least make a little you still come out ahead but I get something for my time.
Of course from the game oriented perspective no time is really passing and my character is earning gold beyond the groups norm at the expense on a party member and that’s not cool at all.
IMHO it’s entirely about perspective and play style. But as always that's just my opinion.
The problem as I see it is that there are 2 very different play styles here and both come with subtle but distinctly different points of view. I’ll call them the real life play style and the game oriented play style.
Real life play style
In the real life play style, the players view their characters as living breathing people in a fantasy world and have them act as such with there own lives outside adventuring. This is the perspective being taken by those that say charging for services during down time is generally acceptable and even expected.
From this perspective it is completely acceptable to charge some fee during down time between adventures. Most people do not put their friends and family first, spending days, weeks, or even months doing things for them and sacrificing there own time without expecting some form of compensation. And yes, even if you are military and have had you life saved repeatedly there is still a limit as to how far most people will let someone milk it before they expect or even demand compensation for their time or simply say no. You don’t suddenly become someone’s slave because they saved your life.
As for the arguments about you charging me so I’ll charge you, they really don’t apply. When adventuring, the entire party works together and gets equal shares of the treasure. If you are in a dungeon or the middle of an adventure then you use your abilities for the party without asking for compensation beyond cost. If this means spinning out a batch of potions, a ring of invisibility or whatever, so be it. Now between adventures when you could be relaxing at home and pursuing your own interests, that’s when you would charge a fee. Again this is all from a real life perspective. So let’s look at it from the other point of view.
Game oriented play style
The game oriented play style looks at it for what it is, a game, and focuses on accomplishing the games goals as efficiently as possible. This is the perspective being taken by those saying items should be made for the party at cost and charging a fee is unacceptable.
Since no actual time passes for the player whose character is making the equipment and they are being given what they need to make it, they are out nothing. Groups that are game oriented are generally group oriented as well focusing first on the group and second on the individual characters. Consequently, they often see asking for a fee as one player trying to “get ahead” of the other players rather then role playing their character and how they would really act, because of this it is generally frown upon.
So who is right? The answer is both sides are. Ultimately you should find out what the groups mind set is before choosing any kind of item creation feat so as to avoid potential problems. For example, I tend to prefer games using the real life perspective and have charged a nominal fee for items created during down time. I also expect to pay others that do similarly and have no objection to it.
This doesn’t mean that I think others, such as say Admantium Dragon, are wrong or even that I couldn’t play in the same game as them, merely that I’d need to know the expectations in advance so I could choose feats accordingly. In a game of that nature I would probably be less likely to take item creation feats not because I’m mad or am being a jerk but because I focus on RPing my character as I see them acting in real life and taking an item creation feat and acting that way would “feel” weird and shake my sense of verisimilitude thus detracting from my fun, not greatly but enough to make me think twice before taking one.
I could say a lot more on the subject, heck I could probably right a paper on it and the differences I’ve observed playing in games of both types, but I think I’ve hit the highlights. Incidentally, I got a little lazy reading so if I skipped over someone saying all this before I apologize.
edit: ninja'd by Ravingdork, and ya I think it pretty much is... though I guess from my post that's obvious xP
No, all characters, no matter what class they are, are limited on the number of attacks they get with a full attack action. This limit uses a characters base attack bonus (abbreviated BAB). Normally, someone such as a gunslinger that uses a high BAB gets 1 attack at 1st level, 2 at 6th level, 3 at 11th level, 4 at 16th level, and finally 5 at 20th level. (Incidentally this is the best BAB a character can have)
To modify this number you either need to get a feat if one exists (depends of what you are doing), use both hands (which gives penalties to attack rolls), or have magic used on you such as the 3rd level spell haste.
Projectile weapons that have reload times such as crossbows and firearms may eat into this slowing the rate at which you can attack. While firearms may slow you attack speed they let you use touch attack AC while within 1 range increment (about 20 feet). Because of this you rarely miss within this range which can be nice.
Consequently, to do as much damage as possible you want to reduce the reload times on your firearms so you can shoot more and reload less. A pepperbox is a 6 cylinder/barrel pistol and you can have all 6 preloaded thus you don't need to reload until you run out of ammunition. But as mentioned, this will not increase the number of attacks you can make per round merely avoid reloading for a while so you can get the full number of attacks normally allowed.
-I get shot of per round, can i in any way get more?....
Sure, the simplest solution is to get a pepperbox, which you can have preloaded giving you up to six attacks before reloading becomes, an issue. I’d also use alchemical cartridges, get the feat rapid reload, or both. You can find the feat in the core rulebook; it normally works with crossbows but works with firearms as well. At 11th level you get deed lightning reload, which combined with either of the above lets you load your firearm once a round as a free action and can be use to extend the “life” of your pepper box as you can then reload a chamber each round for free providing you either use alchemical cartridges or have rapid reload.
At 7th level you get dead shot, which helps here a lot. You can effectively pool all of your damage into a single attack. It’s not quite as effective as using your full attack because bonus damage is only added once but it’s good for when you’ve used up all your preloaded shots.
-Is there any good way to go from here to get higher damage?...feats etc...
Well at 5th level gun training lets you get to add your dexterity bonus to damage, also get the feats point blank shot and deadly aim, both found in the core rulebook. Normally, deadly aim doesn’t work with touch attacks but firearms are an exception making it a must have imho.
-Should I go multiclass?....and what, why and how?...
Depends on your character concept. You can if you want but I don’t think you need to. That said a level of rogue might be nice for the sneak attack damage when flanking if you feel you need it.
-What weapons should I use?....We have only early firearms in our campaign, no advanced....what should I go for?...
I’d probably go for a pair of pepperboxes. Fire until it’s out and then switch. As I mentioned above once you get lightning reload mentioned above you can potentially reload one of the used chambers each round for free letting you get your full attack longer before you need to stop and switch guns or need to start using move actions to reload (at which point you should start using dead shot as mentioned above).
-Should i kill my character, and create a new one?...
Completely your call, if you aren’t having fun with him then yes, of course. But if you’re worried about being effective I would be patient and try it out for a while. The gunslinger isn’t a DPR machine but they can deal out decent damage and do it consistently. Getting to use touch attack AC at short-range means at medium to high levels you’d rarely ever miss. If you find only getting this with the 1st range increment to limiting consider getting the signature deed feat at 11th level and using it with deadeye effectively doubling your touch attack range.
I could have sworn there was a guide to the gunslinger out there somewhere but I’m failing to find it, perhaps someone else will chime in.
Well I was ninja'd on several, ok most points, but what can I say it was a long post x.x
Adamantine Dragon wrote:
How about if we just associated each skill with two attributes? How would that feel to people?
Sounds like a good idea, though I wouldn't force it. If a skill doesn't seem to fit more then 1 attribute don't add 1 just to add it. Not saying that this would even come up necessarily but if it does I'd just leave the skill with a single attribute rather then trying to force it to have a second attribute.
While I like the concept around what you are trying to do, there are 2 very large problems I see. First, characters or creatures with high stats and second characters or creatures with low stats.
High stats such as those given to many creature such as, say, your typically demon, will give an insane amount of skill points. For example, your average babau demon would get 17 skill points per level. And while I understand it's a monster and not a player character I’d really prefer a system that works for everyone myself. Also, how do stat increasing items work with it?
Low stats are just as big of a problem imho, and more likely for your average player. If I read correctly, a character with an average intelligence could not have any ranks at all in a knowledge skill. The one and only exception being if they choose to get skill points for there favored class bonus, which not everyone wants to do. This seems pretty stiff to me considering they have average intelligence.
Subtle point but you are not forcing him to play any alignment you are simply changing his alignment to reflect the way he is playing. He can still behave however he wants.
As to chaotic neutral meaning that he gets to do whatever he wants :/ Ask him what he thinks he'd have to do to become evil. After all, the way I see it if that was the case the alignment chaotic evil wouldn't even exist.
Once you have explained to him the difference between neutral and evil and perhaps more importantly the fact that the chaotic side of his alignment relates only to laws, keeping his word, and such, and not to morality, tell him if he persists to act evil he'll become evil. If he ignores you and continues to act evil I would change his alignment and tell him he can RP finding a new god (I assume he is a divine spell caster or I don't even understand the issue).
I think walking out on a game for having his alignment changed is a little childish. Now if you nerf his character or something I could see being irritated but even then as long as he can switch gods and get his powers back I think it's a silly reason to walk out on a game.
If he walks tell him it's his call but you'd rather he stayed and that you can't just do what he wants because he threatens to leave. Perhaps even ask him if he'd prefer to bring in a new character with a different personality so that there would be no conflict.
Mainly, I think you need to talk to him about alignment and clearly explain the difference between chaotic neutral and chaotic evil. Also I really do think you need to ask him the question I stated above: What does he thinks he'd have to do to become evil? I thinking forcing him to think about it might help.