RecklessPrudence's page

One small thing - you've got the Flail as a d8 damage weapon, but my copy of the PHB says d6. Did I miss an errata somewhere? Would love a d8 Flail, but if that's not the case its rating may need adjustment.

Ah okay, yeah I was reading 10-9 incorrectly, that sorts it - thanks!

So our GM is planning on starting us at Level 5, and I'm trying to plan my character but am stuck due to my difficulty understanding the contrast between what a 5th-level party of 4 would have if they'd started at 1st instead of starting at 5th. I understand that Table 10-10 gives lower Gold values than Table 10-8 because the party would have spent gold instead of hoarding it, and that Consumables aren't listed in 10-10 because a lot of the ones in 10-9 would have been used along the way, and if a player wants some Consumables they can simply buy some with the gold listed in the Currency entry for their level, but the difference between Permanent items is quite stark.

For example, for a Level 5 Party of 4, according to Table 10-9 they have these Permanent Items spread through Party:
6th: 2, 5th: 4, 4th: 4, 3rd: 4, 2nd: 4, 1st: 2

Which means they average out to these Permanent Items per Party member:
6th: 0.5, 5th: 1, 4th: 1, 3rd: 1, 2nd: 1, 1st: 0.5

While 10-10 allots these Permanent Items per Party member:
4th: 1, 3rd: 2, 2nd: 1, 1st: 2

Which works out to these Permanent Items spread through Party:
4th: 4, 3rd: 8, 2nd: 4, 1st: 8

With the effect that a 5th-level start nets the party double the 3rd-level items and *quadruple* the 1st-level items, at the loss of all 5th- and 6th-level items. Is this a case of implicit GM interpretation, where the GM should rationalise the values given by Table 10-10 to more closely resemble 10-9's values when it's the whole party starting at a higher level, instead of a new hire? Or did the devs consider starting at a higher level as a party an inherent advantage, necessitating less gear, or something?

Should my character be planned around 10-9's largess, or 10-10's limitations?

Claims I don't have permission? I read it closer to when it was first uploaded, but wanted to go back and read it again, only I can't. Did OP make it private?

RecklessPrudence wrote:

Okay, fair enough. Guess I might be trying to get a Rune of Contingency, then!

LOL Yeah, a tattoo that needs the Inscribe Rune feat instead of the tattoo feat. ;)

Yeah, and by FAR the best of them. Wonder if it'd be possible to multiply the cost by 1.5 and see if I could get it as a chest tattoo instead of a rune?

Okay, fair enough. Guess I might be trying to get a Rune of Contingency, then!

Hey, I've been looking at Magical Tattoos, and I've got a few questions about them.

So since Shadow Piercings exist, also act as an extra slot in a location, and have a 1.5x multiplier, rather than a 2x, I'm going to run it past my GM that we houserule in that the tattoos have the same multiplier. Shadow Piercings are from a book from 2014, while Magical Tattoos are from a book from 2011, so I think it's reasonable to say the dev team changed their minds about how to price (slot+1) as opposed to slotless.

But I've been wondering about tattoo's ability to be destroyed. If they're too easy to destroy when you are captured, that's a pain, since you can always raid the armoury for your items back, but once a tattoo is destroyed, it's gone forever. But if they're too hard to destroy, then they're a magical item that virtually can't be taken from you, and that's powerful, probably too powerful for a 1.5x multiplier.

What I was thinking of running past my GM was keep all the current rules, but change it so the acid/fire destruction method doesn't actually destroy the item, so much as semi-permanently suppress it. The scarring from the acid or the fire disrupts the ink that guides the magic, but the magic is still there. I was thinking of suggesting that a Restoration, Greater Restoration, Heal, Regeneration, or similar (not Lesser Restoration) could remove the scar and fix the disruption, and that the tattoo would reappear once the scar was gone?

Alternatively, the scar must be healed, and then the tattoo must be re-inked, for maybe 5% of the cost of the original tattoo, as the magic is still there, it just needs to be guided into the right channels again?

What do you guys think?

1st: nothing in Craft Shadow Piercing requires evil

2nd, I assume the 1.5 cost is because it gives you [slot +1] instead of actual slotless. As a house-rule, I don't think there would be an issue with tattoo also having 1.5 cost. As a rule though, there is no FAQ, errata or general rule for changing the cost that I know of.

Thanks, I thought it might have slipped through the cracks. I'll run it past my GM.

And while nothing in Craft Shadow Piercing requires evil... when you look at the fluff instead of the crunch, we get stuff like this:

Many who embrace evil want to reflect that decision in their appearance, not simply stand out from normal society. Look for true evil among those who revel in showing the world their rotten core by butchering their flesh in devotion to their evil ways or branding their foreheads with their foul deity’s symbol.

...

Nidalese Shadow Piercings: True Nidalese savor pain, and they proudly wear this delight in the torturous piercing of their bodies. Shadow piercers are some of the most skilled pain artisans in Nidal’s depraved culture. They create magical pieces of jewelry, formed partially of shadowstuff, and use them in all manner of surface piercings for their discerning clients.

And while most of that can be rationalised by saying the same designs could be used by a masochist (since I'm pretty sure it's implied that they continue to cause pain the entire time you wear them, unlike normal/RL piercings) or just someone who wanted to prove they were tougher than tough, the fact that all the numbered bonuses they give that are not competence are profane (which the linked page doesn't show, you need to go to the specific pages for the shadow piercings in the Wondrous Items index), and that they're in a book that is all about evil character-specific stuff made me think that they're probably an evil-specific thing. (Also, I don't remember - is shadowstuff considered an evil kinda thing?)

I'm not saying there couldn't be an alignment-neutral version of these out there - I would hope there was, in fact! But as written, I'm pretty sure the existing Shadow Piercings are meant for evil characters.

Same as Sin Runes - nothing requires evil, and there's probably an alignment-neutral version out there, but the version that's given in the book is pretty clearly meant for evil characters IMO.

So I was looking at all the Item Creation Feats, reading the ones I didn't know, and I was on Craft Shadow Piercing. It's for evil characters, but I noticed something odd in it. It says:

"Since shadow piercings don’t interfere with other magic items in the same slot, but can only have one piercing per slot, the base price is multiplied by 1.5 instead of doubled as if they had no space limitation."

But Magical Tattoos, which also don't interfere with items in the same slot and also limit you to one tattoo per slot, have their prices doubled, as if they were slotless.

Shadow Piercings don't have anything that limits them from doing everything a Wondrous Item - or a Magical Tattoo - can, if I'm not reading this incorrectly, so they have the same capabilities.

The Shadow Piercing rules are from Champions of Corruption, a 2014 book, while the Magical Tattoo rules are from Inner Sea Magic, a 2011 book, so I would assume the rulesmiths have thought more on the value of one extra slot. I looked around, and couldn't find an FAQ or errata on this topic. Is there one, and I'm not finding it? If not, would you apply the standards of the later book, and knock the tattoo costs down to a 1.5 multiplier?

Hi, my group is using the Alternate Crafting Rules from here. And our craftercaster is planning ahead, and looking at Inscribe Magical Tattoo as a feat for later. The Alternate Crafting Rules don't have listed DCs for tattoos, would it be akin to jewelry (DC20), or clocks (DC25)? Higher? Lower? This is assuming it's not just a crudely scrawled child's drawing-equivalent, that it's something that a professional tattoo artist would put out (as shown in the Craft level requirement of 5).

Also, am I to understand that a tattoo can replicate any Wondrous Item effect, as well as making your own? But it's the normal crafting cost, x2 for Slotless? That's going to be EXPENSIVE, and take a LONG time, for even one big item. But assuming we ended up with the time, would you be able to, for instance, inscribe the effect that Juggernaut Pauldrons usually give, on a fighter? Or a Belt of Physical Perfection, or something?

Thanks for the help!

Cool, thanks guys. Will do!

Apologies, replace the 1-10 build with:

Lvl1: Power attack, Combat Reflexes.
Lvl2: Weapon Focus (Dwarven Longaxe)
Lvl3: Additional Traits(Family Trade[Acrobatic], Seeker), Armour Training
Lvl4: Barroom Brawler, Str +1
Lvl5: Cunning, Weapon Training: Axes
Lvl6: FAWT: Warrior Spirit
Lvl7: Dirty Fighting, AAT: Armoured Juggernaut
Lvl8: Improved Dirty Trick, Str +1
Lvl9: Steel soul, FAWT: Armed Bravery
Lvl10: Greater Weapon Focus

Remove Master Armourer and Cosmopolitan from the list, move Secured Armour into an Armoured Master AAT choice, alter Additional Traits to get Seeker instead of Eldritch Smith, and add Quickdraw and Phalanx Formation

Yeah, but you can't benefit from Weapon Focus or any of the other weapon-specific Feats if you use Transformative. I'm thinking of just taking the Weapon Versatility feat, that'll allow me to switch my weapon from Slashing to Bludgeoning or Piercing on the fly. Problem is, while the enchantment allows you to still benefit from Keen or the like when you switch to Bludgeoning or other types that would render things invalid, I don't think the Feat does - which is why I was thinking of the enchantment to begin with.

Okay, thanks. In that case, my total list is:

AWT - 4
Warrior Spirit
Abundant Tactics
Armed Bravery
Defensive Weapon Training/Fighter's Reflexes

AAT - 3
Armoured Juggernaught
Armour Specialisation
Master Armourer

Common - 4
Steel Soul
Additional Traits(Family Trade[Acrobatic], Eldritch Smith[/Seeker])
Cunning
Cosmopolitan(Perception, Sense Motive)

Combat Feats (Definite) - 16
Power Attack
Combat Reflexes
Dwarven Hatred Style
Dwarven Seething
Dwarven Fury
Weapon Focus (Dwarven Longaxe) (Prereqs: Proficiency with selected weapon, BAB +1)
Barroom Brawler (Prereqs: BAB +4)
Cut From the Air (Prereqs: Str 13, Power Attack, BAB +5, weapon training class feature with a melee weapon)
Smash From the Air (Prereqs: Str 13, Cut from the Air, Power Attack, BAB +9, weapon training class feature with a melee weapon)
Greater Weapon Focus (Prereqs: Proficiency with selected weapon, Weapon Focus with selected weapon, BAB +1, 8th-level fighter)
Secured Armour (Prereqs: BAB +11 or fighter level 8th, armor training class feature, proficiency with medium or heavy armor)
Dirty Fighting
Dirty Trick, Improved
Dirty Trick, Greater
Dirty Trick, Quick
Weapon Versatility

And the prospective lvl1-10 is:

Lvl1: Power attack, Combat Reflexes.
Lvl2: Weapon Focus (Dwarven Longaxe)
Lvl3: Cosmopolitan(Perception, Sense Motive), Armour Training
Lvl4: Barroom Brawler, Str +1
Lvl5: Additional Traits(Family Trade[Acrobatic], Eldritch Smith), Weapon Training: Axes
Lvl6: FAWT: Warrior Spirit
Lvl7: Cunning, AAT: Armoured Juggernaut
Lvl8: Dirty Fighting, Str +1
Lvl9: Steel soul, FAWT: Armed Bravery
Lvl10: Improved Dirty Trick

Would anything from the total list do better earlier in the list? I tried to get the skill stuff as early as possible, but that leaves a lot of combat stuff undone until the later half, and I AM supposed to be The Combat Guy, considering I'm a Fighter...

What do you guys think?

Dammit, can't fit Improved Crit Range and Improved Crit Multiplier. Spring-loaded it is!

Get Weapon Versatility as my last missing feat. Or maybe spellcut? My weakness is my Reflex save, after all. But I've got Steel Soul and Smash From The Air, do they mostly cover it?

There is a reason that there is not enchant for that, it would be confusing and too powerful, there costs for enchanting weapons with non standard materials to consider. There are enchants that already do similar effects like Gray Flame or Holy. One cheap enchant to avoid all DR is to easy. If you really want to use that spell, pick up UMD and then maybe a UMD item.

This would be similar to the true strike items people bring up, if it is to good and item creation rules would make it insanely cheap that it is probably broken and not available. Or, if the item is priced so well and the benefit is so good that every character would have it as a must have item, it does not exist.

Ah. Okay, fair enough. Oh well.

I would say either a +1, or 8-10k.

Thanks for the help - I hope my DM goes for 8-10k!

*snip*

I ended up switching back to the Longaxe, and I've decided on specialising in Dirty Tricks rather than Trip - I asked a lot of questions, and had it narrowed down to Trip or Dirty Tricks, and for roleplay reasons as well as mechanical ones, went for Dirty Tricks.

I am thinking about custom-building a Longaxe variant, though - either with Improved Critical Range or Spring-Loaded. If I go for Improved Critical Range, I'm getting Improved Critical as my last feat I'm missing, not crit-fishing, but just with that pretty high chance of crits. Or if I go for Spring-Loaded, getting Spellcut.

Now I just need to decide on that, and then work out build order!

Hmm... last feat: Spellcut, or get Improved Critical and craft my own Modified Dwarven Long-axe, with all the same rules, but swap the 1d12 for a 2d6 and get an improved critical range as well? You can juuust squeeze it in, leaving you with a 2d6 19-20 x3 Reach weapon, which after the doubling crit range from Improved Crit/Keen and the Impact enchantment, gives you a 3d6 17-20 x3 Reach weapon. Alternatively, don't get one of the Improved Crit Range/Multiplier, and get Spring-Loaded to be able to close the donut.

It's so you can make a Bastard Sword.

Or a Dwarven War Axe, I get that there's weapons that exist that this allows, I was just wondering whether that change has implications for the rest of the system.

You gotta admit, a 2d8 two-handed exotic sounds good!

It's so you can make a Bastard Sword.

Or a Dwarven War Axe, I get that there's weapons that exist that this allows, I was just wondering whether that change has implications for the rest of the system.

Hi, I was taking a look through a friend's Weapon Master's Handbook, mostly for Feats, and I found myself looking at the creating your own weapon section.

Maybe it's just because it's late here, but I ran across something I want to clarify.

The Improved Damage Quality says:

But I can't find anything that says why exotic one-handed weapons would have max damage one step higher. Earlier, the book states that ALL created weapons start out at 1d3, and all Exotic does is give you an extra DP for creation. I looked for 'Exotic' all through this section, and couldn't find anything that said why the damage ceiling was higher.

Am I missing something painfully obvious, or is there an error? Are all Exotic weapons supposed to start at the 1d4 damage step? No, that wouldn't increase the ceiling. Or Are Exotic Weapons ceilings one higher, or they can take the quality once more than their handedness, and they can take full advantage of the extra time the weapon can take Improved Damage over the Medium-sized limits, in which case can an Exotic Light go to 1d8, and would an Exotic Two-Handed still cap at d12/2d6, as then it would be the only one not using all of its allotment? And what does taking it that fifth time give you, if you're larger than medium? 2d8, which seems to be the next level from the table Tiny and Large Weapon Damage?

Just wondering, seemed weird.

Thanks for sating my curiosity.

Versatile Weapon transforms the physical properties of the weapon, and allows it to punch through any one of the following (chosen on casting/activation) DRs: Bludgeoning, Cold Iron, Piercing, Silver, or Slashing

It does this without changing what damage type your weapon actually deals or is made of, so Keen still works if you switch to Bludgeoning, unlike the Transformative enchantment, and you still have the extra hit points from Adamantine or whatever your weapon is made of when you've got it set to Cold Iron or Silver.

I'm a Fighter thinking about magic items, and there's a spell I saw that I'd LOVE on my primary weapon, but that there's no existing enchantment for. Is there any rule of thumb written down for determining whether it will use one of the limited +# enchantment slots, of which you only have 5 if you want your weapon to be +5, or whether it will be one of the ones that only costs money, time, and spell slots?

A LOT of armor enchantments seem to be the latter, but there's not a whole lot of weapon enchantments that are.

If there's no rule of thumb, maybe I can just get an opinion. I'm thinking of Versatile Weapon, to overcome Damage Reduction on enemies. If it was an activateable ability where you could choose any one of the listed types, would it be a +#, or one of the 'free' ones? If it was a +#, how big would the # be? +1, +2, +3? I can't imagine it being any bigger than +3, considering the stuff that's sitting at +4 & 5, but I could MAYBE see it as a +3, although I'd be more prone to calling it a +2 - or even a +1, I just don't want to go up to my DM and be greedy, so that'll depend on what you guys think.

Thanks for the help!

Oops, thought I swapped Combat Expertise for Dirty Fighting. I removed it from the master list, but instead I put it in in Improved Trip's place, which should have been Improved Dirty Fighting.

No Improved Crit, huh? Okay, in that case, I have one feat free. Maybe some of the options I've ditched, like Weapon Specialist or something? Or would there be something I haven't had in any of my builds that would complement what I've got better?

Nevermind, Dirty Tricks it is!

So my feats I want look like:

AWT - 4
Warrior Spirit
Abundant Tactics
Armed Bravery
Defensive Weapon Training/Fighter's Reflexes

AAT - 3
Armoured Juggernaught
Armour Specialisation
Master Armourer

Common - 4
Steel Soul
Additional Traits(Family Trade[Acrobatic], Eldritch Smith[/Seeker])
Cunning
Cosmopolitan(Perception, Sense Motive)

Combat Feats (Definite) - 15
Power Attack
Combat Reflexes
Dwarven Hatred Style
Dwarven Seething
Dwarven Fury
Weapon Focus (Dwarven Longaxe) (Prereqs: Proficiency with selected weapon, BAB +1)
Barroom Brawler (Prereqs: BAB +4)
Cut From the Air (Prereqs: Str 13, Power Attack, BAB +5, weapon training class feature with a melee weapon)
Smash From the Air (Prereqs: Str 13, Cut from the Air, Power Attack, BAB +9, weapon training class feature with a melee weapon)
Greater Weapon Focus (Prereqs: Proficiency with selected weapon, Weapon Focus with selected weapon, BAB +1, 8th-level fighter)
Secured Armour (Prereqs: BAB +11 or fighter level 8th, armor training class feature, proficiency with medium or heavy armor)
Dirty Fighting
Dirty Trick, Improved
Dirty Trick, Greater
Dirty Trick, Quick
Improved Critical (Prereqs: Proficient with weapon, BAB +8)

And my tentative build looks like:

Lvl1: Power attack, Combat Reflexes.
Lvl2: Weapon Focus (Dwarven Longaxe)
Lvl3: Cosmopolitan(Perception, Sense Motive), Armour Training
Lvl4: Barroom Brawler, Str +1
Lvl5: Additional Traits(Family Trade[Acrobatic], Eldritch Smith), Weapon Training: Axes
Lvl6: FAWT: Warrior Spirit
Lvl7: Cunning, AAT: Armoured Juggernaut
Lvl8: Dirty Fighting, Str +1
Lvl9: Steel soul, FAWT: Armed Bravery
Lvl10: Improved Dirty Trick

Should I swap some stuff around to get it earlier? Is some of the stuff I took better later? HALP PLZ!

Any combat maneuver can use the dirty fighting feat - this replaces combat expertise/int 13 or power attack/str 13 in the prereqs.

Overrun wants improved overrun and charge through at a minimum. You have power attack already. Spiked destroyer, poised bearing, imposing bearing & greater overrun are more optional.

Bull rush wants improved bull rush and greater bull rush. Spiked destroyer, poised bearing and imposing bearing are optional. Pushing assault is a way of doing something similar with just one feat.

Reposition wants dirty fighting, improved reposition, greater reposition and tactical reposition. Yes, all of those. It's a greedy maneuver, and it doesn't even have the option of using poised/imposing bearing to take on larger enemies.

Thanks! You probably didn't see my edit, but I put Trip back on the table. Would I be right in saying it needs Improved Trip & Greater Trip, and benefits from Fury’s Fall, Steady Engagement, and Stand Still?

And out of Overrun, Bull Rush, Trip and Dirty Tricks, which is most useful, generally? Greater Overrun can trigger AOOs, but at the time it does, I'll only be able to use something without Reach, right?

Past time limit, so can't edit: And Overrun. Out of Reposition, Bull Rush, Trip, Overrun, or Dirty Tricks, which are easiest to get functional? Which are most often useful?

Keeping in mind I can grab the Relentless Racial Feature as a Dwarf for a +2 on Bull Rush & Overrun, losing Stability (+4 to CMD against same)

Which feat chain is easier to... maybe not <i>complete</i>, but invest enough in to be good at - Trip, Reposition, Bull Rush or Dirty Tricks? If I get Dirty Tricks I can drop Weapon Trick(Polearms), but I think they all require Combat Expertise. Luckily since we're using Stamina, I don't need Int 13. Speaking of, should I grab any Stamina-related Feats, since we're using it?

Which of those combat maneuvers would be most useful, for a Reach Fighter? Bull Rush and Reposition can get them out of my donut, Trip can proc AOOs, and Dirty Tricks just seem very useful.

I've got four feats free, but if I give up crafting magic armour, I can increase that to six.

Also, anyone got any idea about whether enchanting Versatile Weapon into a weapon would take a +# slot? If so, how big of one?

Hm. For a focus, how about a Dirty Tricks Reach Tripper that provides their own Flanking through a Familiar, like the Mauler Fox posted upthread? And is pretty tanky, to boot. If there's room, I'd like SOME ranged ability, so I'm not entirely impotent towards threats I can't catch. I wouldn't mind having Dwarven fury against everything and everybody too, but I can lose that if I have to.

Ah yeah, duh. I'll check with my GM.

Hm. How's this look for up to level nine?

Lvl1: Power attack, Combat Reflexes.
Lvl2: Weapon Focus (Dwarven Longaxe)
Lvl3: Additional Traits(Seeker, Family Trade[Acrobatics]), Armour Training
Lvl4: Barroom Brawler, Str +1
Lvl5: Dirty Fighting, Weapon Training: Polearms
Lvl6: FAWT: Warrior Spirit
Lvl7: Cunning, AAT: Armoured Juggernaut
Lvl8: Weapon Trick(Polearm), Str +1
Lvl9: Steel soul, AWT: Abundant Tactics

That leaves:

AWT:
Armed Bravery
Defensive Weapon Training/Fighter's Reflexes

AAT:
Armour Specialisation (Full Plate)

Combat Feats (Definite):
Dwarven Hatred Style, Dwarven Seething, Dwarven Fury
Secured Armor
Cut From the Air
Smash From the Air
Greater Weapon Focus

Combat Feats (Possible):
Quickdraw
Cleave
Great Cleave
Point-Blank Shot
Precise Shot
Improved Bull Rush
Improved Reposition
Tactical Reposition
Improved Trip
Greater Trip
Improved Critical
Stand Still

To get. I just have to narrow down the Possible list something fierce. Maybe ditch some stuff from Definite. Any advice?

Also, if I wanted a Versatile Weapon enchantment on my Longaxe, would that take up a +# slot? If so, how much? Or would it just be a 'costs, but doesn't take up a slot' enchantment?

Why Bardiche?

I am a fan of the Lucerne Hammer. Also a Reach Weapon, but also a Brace Weapon. 1d12 instead of 1d10, Piercing or Bludgeoning instead of the Bardiche which does Slashing only.

I like Dwarven Longaxe better than Bardiche, too. Both are Slashing, Reach Weapons, but your Dwarven Longaxe does 1d12 instead of 1d10.

An interesting alternative to Dwarven Longaxe would be Horsechopper, it only does 1d10, but it is a Trip Weapon in addition to being a Reach Weapon.

Unless you have some special, roleplaying reason to use it, Bardiche is just an inferior weapon.

Main reason is that the Bardiche is both an axe and a polearm, so I can use Weapon Trick(Polearms) with it while also getting Weapon Training(Axes), which allows me to use Greataxes and Dwarven War Axes and the like in a pinch. I like the Longaxe too, but I don't think I can use Polearm Tricks with it, can I?

And with Polearm Trick, I can use Trip without needing a weapon with it.

Does that make sense, or am I doing something stupid?

Also, that progression for the axe and shield fighter looks great! I might not use it for this one, but that's certainly going in the 'future characters' folder!

Sorry I disappeared for a few days there - RL stuff, as well as being sick.

Okay, so taking a lot of this on board, I've come up with a list of stuff to get. I'd like some help ordering it please, if you guys don't mind?

General Feats - 3
Steel Soul
Additional Traits(Seeker, Family Trade[Acrobatics]),
Cunning

Advanced Weapon Training - 5
Warrior Spirit
Abundant Tactics
Armed Bravery
Defensive Weapon Training OR Fighter's Reflexes

Advanced Armour Training - 2
Armoured Juggernaught
Armour Specialisation

Combat Feats (Definite) - 12
Dirty Fighting
Dwarven Hatred Style, Dwarven Seething, Dwarven Fury
Power Attack
Combat Reflexes
Weapon Focus (Bardiche)
Barroom Brawler
Secured Armor
Cut From the Air, Smash From the Air
Weapon Trick (Polearm)

Combat Feats (Possible) - 12
Cleave, Great Cleave
Point-Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Deadly Aim
Improved Bull Rush
Improved Reposition, Tactical Reposition
Improved Trip, Greater Trip
Greater Weapon Focus
Improved Critical

The combination of Dirty Fighting, Barroom Brawler, and Abundant Tactics leaves the Improved Combat Maneuvers as a 'nice-to-have' instead of a 'must-have'. I think?

Some of the Combat Feats can be taken as additional AWT or AATs, if necessary.

Steel Soul and Armed Bravery can wait until the Lvl 9-12 range, right? That's what somebody said, anyway, as that's when we'll be running into the sort of threats those things work against.

Any help trimming the couple of Combat Feats I need to lose to bring the total down to the right number, as well as ordering this giant damn list, would be much appreciated.

I want to stay monoclass, though - Fighter all the way through, please.

Thanks!

...

Thank-you for the wall of text! It raised some good questions. The main reason for the Longaxe was probably a stupid one - I wanted to put Transformative Greater on my Longaxe, and have it turn into a Battleaxe when enemies got in my donut, and if they both counted as Axes I was good for getting weapon-specific Feats and then getting Weapon Specialist to make it all work together.

I've had it pointed out to me that I don't seem to have a core concept for my dwarf, and that I was over-specialising in some ways while under-specialising in others. So after thinking about it (and having it suggested to me), I want to build a Fighter that is basically area denial/tank. To that end, I want to get stuff like you said, for some ranged threat and other ways of encouraging them to close, and then more ways of punishing them once they do, apart from just hitting them with my axe on my turn - getting them into situations where I'm hitting them for doing stuff, rather than just on my turn sounds great!

But.

I have NO IDEA what I'm doing in Pathfinder. I've looked at the SRD, but there's SO MUCH of it.

So basically... help?

EDIT: Oh, and as for suiting up in the Full Plate, I was planning on enchanting it with Comfort, so I could sleep in it - then the only time I'd be without it would be when bathing and washing the armour.

Dammit, I have tried making detailed posts that answer the points you guys have brought up TWICE, and both times I've hit Preview and merrily left, only to find later my post isn't here. Hopefully the third time's the charm.

At L17, climb and survival aren't worth a feat to learn. By that point magic >>> skills except when dealing with people. You're actually getting fly as a class skill, by 17 you should be able to use it and that mostly negates a need to climb!

Hmm... fair point. Would I benefit from taking that AWT earlier, or should I just ditch it entirely?

Given you're playing a dwarf the later armor trainings probably aren't worth much to you. Armor specialization, steel headbutt, master armorer and armored master are all worth considering. I'm not sure I'd take armored sprint, but if you're taking the run feat anyway then it's strictly better than that. And/or you could not get Feat AAT at level 8 and take something you wanted earlier like improved crit then.

Hm... I did want it for the Armour Check Penalty reduction, but... if I did swap stuff around... Updated test build at the end of the post, please take a look.

If there's other characters buffing the party or doing battlefield control then improved initiative doesn't have as much value to you as some. You may want to delay until after the buffing/BFC anyway. If you swapped it with furious focus then one more piece of your 'good stuff' comes on line a bit sooner.

Ah, good point. Test build has all Initiative improvement stripped out, lemme know what you think.

You seem like you are trying to do a lot of different things with your dwarf and so you are having trouble getting what you want from your character when you want it. You may need to pick a focus for them first and then fill in supportive/secondary feats and abilitys once you get some of the more core ideas you want on him first.

That... is a problem I often have, yes. At the moment, the core concept for this guy is 'hit problem with big stick', and everything chosen is in aid of that. However, I might be letting my natural tendency to want to do ALL THE THINGS run away with me. I've put an updated build at the end of this post, can you have a look at it and see if it still has that problem, please?

Couple questions though:

1). At lvl 5 how did you get AWT: Weapon spirit AND Weapon Training: Axes?
2). Weapon Specialist allows you a max of 4 feats (weapon training bonus maxes at +4) but you have atleast 5 feats; WF, GWF, WS, GWS & IC, are you not taking all of them or did you miss something in the description?

1) INCOMPETENCE, THAT'S HOW! More seriously, I took the Feat that allows for AWT options, and was VERY CAREFUL to take it without violating the once-per-five-levels restriction. ...then I swapped stuff around before posting the build, and completely forgot about the restriction, so I was taking that feat at Lv5, then again immediately at lv6! Fixed in the test build at the end of the post.

Lvl1: Power attack, Combat Reflexes.
Lvl2: Weapon Focus (Dwarven Longaxe)
Lvl3: Furious Focus
Lvl4: Barroom Brawler, Str +1
Lvl5: Additional Traits(Militant Merchant, Eldritch Smith), Weapon Training: Axes
Lvl6: FAWT: Warrior Spirit
Lvl7: Cunning, AAT: Armoured Juggernaut
Lvl8: FAAT: Master Armourer, Str +1
Lvl9: Steel soul, AWT: Abundant Tactics
Lvl10: Greater Weapon Focus
Lvl11: FAWT: Armed Bravery, AAT: Armour Specialisation(Full Plate)
Lvl12: Cut From the Air, Int +1
Lvl13: Improved Critical, AWT: Weapon Specialist(Axes)
Lvl14: Weapon Specialization
Lvl15: Greater Weapon Specialization, AAT: Armour Master(Secured Armor)
Lvl16: Smash From the Air, Int +1
Lvl17: ???, AWT: Defensive Weapon Training
Lvl18: ???
Lvl19: ???
Lvl20: ???, Cha +1

Ditching Initiative improvements, and getting AATs instead of Armor Training, freed up four Feat slots. Lemme know if you think of something that should go in those, or alternatively should go earlier, with something already on the list going in those last four slots.

Hi again. So this is still my first character in any D&D-derived system more modern than a heavily customised version of AD&D. It's also my first character that is not at least a secondary caster, or a hacker in that one sci-fi game we played. I'm pretty sure I've picked all the feats I want, I would just like help ordering them, please. I have a tentative build order, but it lease a lot of stuff very late that I'd prefer to have earlier, so any help shuffling stuff around so the more useful stuff goes as early as possible, given prereqs, would be greatly appreciated.

The character is a Dwarven Fighter with stats of:
Str 16
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 12
Wis 12
Cha 8

the Traits:
Defender of the Society(Combat)
Glory of Old(Regional)

and the alternate Racial Benefits:
Fey Thoughts(Fly, Acrobatics)
Craftsman
Rock Stepper

Tentative Build Order:
Lvl1: Power attack, Combat Reflexes.
Lvl2: Weapon Focus (Dwarven Longaxe)
Lvl3: Steel soul
Lvl4: Barroom Brawler
Lvl5: AWT: Warrior Spirit, Weapon Training: Axes
Lvl6: FAWT: Abundant Tactics
Lvl7: Improved Initiative, Armor Training
Lvl8: FAAT: Armoured Juggernaut
Lvl9: Cunning, AWT: Armed Bravery
Lvl10: Cut From the Air
Lvl11: Additional Traits(Militant Merchant, Eldritch Smith), Armor Training
Lvl12: Furious Focus
Lvl13: Improved Critical, AWT: Weapon Specialist(Axes)
Lvl14: Greater Weapon Focus
Lvl15: Weapon Specialization, Armor Training
Lvl16: Greater Weapon Specialization
Lvl17: Run, AWT: Versatile Training(Axes[Climb, Survival])
Lvl18: Smash From the Air
Lvl19: Sprightly Armor
Lvl20: Secured Armor

The main problem with the build order, as I see it, is leaving so much good stuff 'til after Lv11. I'd really like to pick up stuff like Furious Focus and Improved Critical sooner. His main weapon is a Dwarven Longaxe, but he will be picking up at least one backup axe, which is why Weapon Specialist will be useful - plus, I'm planning on getting my Longaxe enchanted with Transformative Greater to be able to turn it into a Greataxe for close-in work, a Pickaxe if something has S-based DR but no P-based, and a Dwarven Waraxe if I only have one hand free. With Weapon Specialist, all the weapon-specific Feats, like Weapon Specialisation and Greater and Improved Critical, will work on all of those.

Thanks for the help!

Advanced Weapon Training, the feat. It isn't specific to versatile training. I admit I forgot you had to take the hammers weapon group, which makes versatile training social skills &/or ride only, probably not what you were after.

Actually there's a problem there. I just noticed Foehammers don't get additional weapon groups to drop for AWT, or armor training at all, which means you'd need to spend 3 more feats just for the AWTs selected and couldn't get the AATs at all. Back to the drawing board I think. This is why people recommend against fighter archetypes which give up weapon or armor training.

Yeah, that's why I ended up going for something not a Foehammer - I actually have another topic on here, called 'forget the Foehammer - Dwarven Fighter', but I accidentally put tonight's post here, instead, and didn't realise my mistake until just now. My brain is obviously firing on ALL cylinders lately, isn't it?

If you spread cunning's 1 skill point/level between 2 skills it'll help but obviously won't max either. I guess you could start with some skills you'll drop later (climb & swim have less use at later levels for example), or spend some skill points before they become class skills.

Suppose you take one extra stamina feat & drop the other 2, also push the limits & second chance. Put weapon trick (polearms) in at L6. Weapon spec & greater will be better value than penetrating strike & greater - many kinds of DR can be defeated. That leaves you with the L20 feat which might as well be improved critical, given the fighters capstone.

So something like this:

Lvl1: Power Attack, Combat Reflexes
Lvl2: Weapon Focus
Lvl3: Furious Focus, AAT - Armoured Juggernaught
Lvl4: Barroom Brawler, Str + 1
Lvl5: Cosmopolitan(Perception, Sense Motive), Weapon Training - Axes
Lvl6: Weapon Trick: Polearms
Lvl7: Cunning, AAT - Armour Specialisation(Full Plate)
Lvl8: Difficult Swings, Str + 1
Lvl9: Steel Soul, AWT - Warrior Spirit
Lvl10: Greater Weapon Focus
Lvl11: Weapon Specialisation, AAT - Armoured Master(Sprightly Armour)
Lvl12: AWT - Versatile Training(Thrown), Con +1
Lvl13: Extra Stamina, AWT - Abundant Tactics
Lvl14: Dazing Assault
Lvl15: AWT - Versatile Training(Close)
Lvl16: Dwarven Hatred Style, Wis +1
Lvl17: Dwarven Seething, AWT - Armed Bravery
Lvl18: Greater Weapon Specialisation
Lvl19: Dwarven Fury
Lvl20: Improved Critical, Str +1
?

What would you suggest for the stat changes? I need to drop one purchase point's worth - my proposed stats are twenty-one points worth, not twenty. Maybe ditch a point of Con? And then buy a point of that instead of a point of Wis at 12, delaying the Wis point until 16, and getting it-doesn't-really-matter at 20? As above?

Greater Penetrating Strike has a prereq of Penetrating Strike, which you don't have.

Huh, so I don't. It was in there when I started, I must have taken it out at some point, meaning to put it in at a different level, but forgotten to.

You're getting huge amounts of stamina with 4 feats spent on it, but I'm not sure what you're planning to spend it on. Speeding up barroom brawler? Rerolling AoOs via the combat reflexes trick? Those are nice but not 4 feats nice IMO. I may be missing something.

If you are, I am too. I HAD a plan for them... wonder what it was? Should have written it down. I've done much of my planning for this character while exhausted, so there's probably any number of problems with it. It's entirely possible that the feats that I was taking all that Stamina for were in an earlier version of the character, and when I took them out I didn't click to take out all the Stamina stuff, too.

Cosmopolitan is almost strictly inferior to Additional Traits. Also you don't really have enough skill points to spread them around much; that your Int bonus goes up 1 at level 20 is not greatly relevant to a feat you got at level 5. If you're going to drop a feat for Weapon Trick (polearms), this is the one. Or spend that feat on Advanced Weapon Training (versatile training: polearms) instead - the 1 per 5 levels bit applies only to the feat, which is counted separately to the AWT you get by dropping weapon groups from weapon training.

So, what, take Militant Merchant and... Suspicious? I was planning on taking Defender of Society and Glory of Old, so that's Combat and Regional taken. Militant Merchant is Racial, and the only non-Religion, non-Campaign one I can take that's not Regional, and Suspicious is Social, and again, the only non-Campaign/Regional/Religion one left.

I've got a potential build, but I forgot something important. The prospective build is:

Stats:
Str 16
Dex 14
Con 16
Int 10
Wis 13
Cha 8

Okay, so progression order:
Lvl1: Power Attack, Combat Reflexes
Lvl2: Weapon Focus
Lvl3: Furious Focus, AAT - Armoured Juggernaught
Lvl4: Barroom Brawler, Str + 1
Lvl5: Cosmopolitan(Perception, Sense Motive), Weapon Training - Axes
Lvl6: Second Chance (Train out of at 12)
Lvl7: Cunning, AAT - Armour Specialisation(Full Plate)
Lvl8: Difficult Swings, Str + 1
Lvl9: Steel Soul, AWT - Warrior Spirit
Lvl10: Greater Weapon Focus
Lvl11: Teleportation Mastery, AAT - Armoured Master(Sprightly Armour)
Lvl12: Extra Stamina, Wis +1, Replace Second Chance with Push the Limits
Lvl13: Dimensional Agility, AWT - Abundant Tactics
Lvl14: Dazing Assault
Lvl15: Dimensional Assault
Lvl16: Extra Stamina, Int +1
Lvl17: Dimensional Dervish, AWT - Armed Bravery
Lvl18: Greater Penetrating Strike
Lvl19: Dimensional Savant
Lvl20: Extra Stamina, Int +1

Alternatively, those two Int upgrades can be swapped with another two Strength, or two Constitution, or whatever. Advice would be appreciated on that.

The problem is, when I was making that build, I completely forgot about Weapon Trick: Choke Up. When would I slot that in, and what would I give up? Would it be one of the two Level 1 things, or would it just be an early Feat? And one of the ones I'm considering giving up is the third Extra Stamina, is that a good one to ditch, or would there be something better?

Apart from adding in Choke Up, would else would you do with that build? What you shuffle around in that, is there something I don't have in there that you think is essential? I don't have the Dwarven Hatred/Seething tree, because I got advised elsewhere that spending three feats on an ability that then only triggers on taking damage, when planning to take damage is a bad idea in Pathfinder, was... less than wise. Would you guys agree with that? If not, why not? What would you change to fit in Hatred/Seething?

It's Wednesday night here, we start on Saturday. Any help would be highly appreciated.

So as my other topic attests to, I was thinking of playing a Foehammer. But having thought about it, a normal Fighter works better for me. To that end, I've started a new topic, since the old one has a now-misleading title.

Now I'm looking to make a Cleave-build Fighter, using the Dwarven Cleaving stuff as well as their Hatred tree to let me Cleave better. I'm thinking of using a Double Waraxe for the +1 and double-handing it for extra damage. I would Power Attack with Furious Focus when there was only one enemy, and the rest of the time I would Cleave. We're using Stamina and Combat Tricks, so even if the Mage is not around I can spend a stamina to count as Large.

Dwarven Cleave stuff only works with normal Cleave and Greater Cleave to my understanding, is it worth investing in Cleaving Finish and Improved? When would I start training out of Cleave, as most of the discussion I've seen says?

Possible Stats (20-point buy)
STR 16
DEX 14
CON 14+2 (16)
WIS 12+2 (14)
INT 12
CHA 7-2 (5)

Traits
Defender of the Society(Combat)
Glory of Old(Racial)

First-level Feats
Power Attack
Steel Soul

Equipment (175gc to start)
Fighter's Kit - 9
Chalk = 1
Explorer's Outfit - FREE
Chain Shirt - 100
Dwarven Double Waraxe - 60

With that Charisma, is it worth putting more than one rank in Intimidate, or should I leave it alone?

Later Standard and Combat Feats are the Dwarven Hatred tree, Goblin Cleaver and Orc Hewer, Cunning, Cosmopolitan(Acrobatics, Perception), One Eye Open, maybe Master Craftsman

AWT, AAT, and Item Mastery Feats someone on the old thread had great advice for, which I'll quote here:

Good AAT options are: Armor Specialization (extra AC is great for a melee fighter), Armored Juggernaut (save for adamantine full plate and eventually you'll get to DR11/-), Armored Master (Sprightly Armor Armor Mastery).

Good AWT options are: Armed Bravery (extra insurance against the bane of all fighter types: will saves), Defensive Weapon Training (so you are fighting with a 2 handed hammer? Well you may still want a little shield bonus anyway), Fighter’s Reflexes (not a priority like having good will saves but good reflexes help you against some nasty stuff), Trained Initiative (this, gloves of duelling, Sprightly Armor, Improved initiative and you'll have excellent initiative despite your low dex score), Warrior Spirit (the most powerful AWT option of them all, do not miss out on this, it really is a game changer for the fighter).

Also, to stay relevant in higher level play you will probably need Item Mastery feats: Flight Mastery is a must have, but also keep in mind Vision Mastery for see invisibility, Teleportation Mastery for even more mobility, Resistance Mastery for cheap energy resistance and Ability Mastery for better...

Would investing in the Gauntlet Style Feats that eventually give me a gauntlet that is a shield be worth it? If so, would that stack with Defensive Weapon Training?

Any advice on order of feats, as well as other good feats to take, would be very welcome, as well as anything else I've got here.

Thanks!

Sunder is kind of a trap option. It's one of the hardest Combat Maneuvers to pull off because even after you beat the CMD check, you also have to get through the HP of the object you're striking (which can be surprisingly high). This is all assuming you are facing an enemy that actually has gear to sunder. Most don't.

To make matters worse, if you manage to give a weapon or armor the Broken condition, you need to have it Mended before you can sell it or use it. Of you manage to destroy it completely, you'll need to cast Make Whole. It's a pain in the butt.

If you want to make a Combat Maneuver based character, I'd recommend playing a Martial Master fighter. Then you can use Martial Flexibility to pick up whichever Maneuver feat is most applicable to the fight you're currently in.

Hm. Okay then. I think I'm going for a normal Dwarven Fighter, then.

In that case...

Hm.

Oh! Also, I forgot to mention, we're using the Stamina and Combat Tricks optional rules, so feats that influence that/have their usefulness altered by that have to be considered.

One suggestion is to focus on Cleave/Goblin Cleaver/Orc Hewer, Dwarven Hatred/Dwarven Seething, and possibly Improved Sunder/Smashing Style. Embrace being a "blunt instrument."

Hm. To get Dwarven Hatred/Seething, I'd have to give up Fey Thoughts. And other ways to get Perception as a Class Skill are limited, without Advanced Weapon Training or other Traits.

And would building around Sunder, which Foehammers get SOME bonus to, but not as much as Bull Rush/Trip be enough to justify going Foehammer and losing access to all that they do? Or would I be honestly better off just going Dwarven Fighter, maybe with a different archetype?

EDIT: Reply while I was typing this one

First of all: why foehammer? It's actually a terrible archetype. Unless it's for flavour reasons you are better off with a vanilla fighter, especially because you get to keep your weapon and armor training, which means advanced options later on.

Stats:

18
12
16
10
12
05

Racial trait options: no need for these, especially not fey thoughts. You are a dwarf and a fighter. There's nothing better for you than getting the Dwarven Hatred Style feats (Dwarven Hatred Style/Dwarven Seething/Dwarven Fury) and for those you need hatred, so don't trade it away.

First level traits, feats and equipment are OK but for leather lamellar.

With a +5 against spells, spell like abilities and poisons you are pretty good at defending yourself from magic from the get go which never hurts.

It was basically just because I like the flavour text. But I've been feeling less and less love for it as I try to build it, so I'm willing to switch to Fighter. And your point about Hatred is taken.

For the stats: Geez, really? 5 Charisma? Guess I won't be Intimidating anyone! And 10 Wisdom... I guess those saves are covered by the Bravery upgrades, but do you really think that's the best? I could drop Strength down to 16 and have Wisdom 16, after Racial mods, or 14 and Dex 13. Wouldn't that be better?

The Lamellar was basically just so I could afford the Longhammer. If there's a better, cheaper weapon (I'm not married to Bludgeoning damage if I'm going Fighter, after all), I'll switch to it and get Chain Shirt.

Hi, so a friend of mine is starting up a new group, and we're going to be playing Pathfinder. I'd like to make a Dwarven Fighter, and I saw that they have a racial Archetype. This is my first time playing any d20 system more modern than a heavily customised version of AD&D, so I went on d20PFSRD, looked at all those Feats and... I'm lost. Paralysed by choice.

We're starting in two days, and basically all I know is that I want to make a Foehammer - the description looks fun. That means giving up all Armour Training and all Weapon Training past the first, mandatory Hammer one. So no Advanced Armor or Weapon Training, and no Armor or Weapon Mastery Feats for anything except Hammers unless I get Armor or Weapon Focuses.

I obviously want to take advantage of some of the class features I gain by giving those up, instead of just making an inferior generic Fighter, but I'm seeing all this advice saying Bull Rush and Trip are useless. If that's the case, is a Foehammer even worth it? If anyone could give me some help here, I'd really appreciate it.

The only decisions I've made to this point are a tentative stat spread, picking my optional Racial traits, my two normal Traits, and my first-level Feats. But any changes you guys suggest to them to improve will be taken into consideration. I'd /kinda/ like to make an Intimidate monster, but I also want Skill points, so...

Possible Stats (20-point buy)
STR 16
DEX 14
CON 12+2 (14)
WIS 12+2 (14)
INT 12
CHA 9-2 (7)

Racial Trait Options
Fey Thoughts(Perception, ?Fly?) (Not sure about the Fly choice, but there's no point in choosing Acrobatics without Armour Training, is there?)
Relentless

Traits
Defender of the Society(Combat)
Glory of Old(Racial)

First-level Feats
Power Attack
Steel Soul

Equipment (175gc to start)
Fighter's Kit - 9
Chalk = 1
Explorer's Outfit - FREE
Leather Lamellar - 60
Dwarven Longhammer - 70
Spiked Gauntlet - 5
Dwarven Boulder Helmet - 20
10 left

Thanks, any help you guys can give will be appreciated. I'm completely lost at this point.