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Raegos

Ravingdork's page

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber. Pathfinder Society Member. 20,616 posts (21,764 including aliases). 1 review. 2 lists. 1 wishlist. 4 Pathfinder Society characters. 11 aliases.



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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

If monster A and B both have swallow whole, and A swallows B, can B bite and grab A while still grappled (essentially from the inside), then swallow A in turn? Assume that grab/grapple size limitations aren't a concern(there are some creatures that ignore that restriction; all you'd need is a pair of them to butt heads against one another).

As absurd as it sounds, I think it just might be legal. After all, you can turn an attacker's grapple against them, and if they begin their turn grappled by a creature with swallow whole, they get swallowed.


The Ambassador trait from Taldor, Echoes of Glory is a Religion trait, which means you need to follow a specific deity to take it, yes?

What religion do you need to be a part of in order to take it? It's perfect for my character, but I can't seem to find this limitation listed anywhere.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Are there any abilities, feats, or items that let you ignore the negative effects of drug consumption.

I'd very much like to be able to use aether and still be able to cast spells, for example.


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

When suffering from the effects of aether, a spellcaster needs to make a caster-level check, yes?

The rules say "caster check" which isn't the correct term, and I want to make sure I'm understanding it correctly.

Also, if one fails the check, is the spell lost, or simply not cast?

I'm left to wonder why it isn't a Concentration check. A caster level check (assuming that's even what it meant to say) seems SO much harsher, even for high level casters.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Is it more or less impossible to have mad psychic spellcasters (that is, those that are unsound of mind)?

The psychic magic rules make it pretty clear that psychic spellcasters must be in control of their thoughts and emotions in order to cast most of their spells (or even use certain class abilities) which, by definition, isn't the case for the insane.

I'm aware that there are metamagic feats and spells without emotion components that can help bypass this, but not without severely limiting the character's abilities. Therefore, is it RAW-impossible for me, as a GM, to throw a "crazy psychic" at my players without really hampering his abilities?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The Vision and Light rules say the following:

See Table: Light Sources and Illumination for the radius that a light source illuminates and how long it lasts. The increased entry indicates an area outside the lit radius in which the light level is increased by one step (from darkness to dim light, for example).

Does the phrase "outside the lit radius" preclude the first radius?

In other words, does a torch's increased radius start 20 feet away from the torch, and extend another 40 feet, providing illumination in a 60-foot radius? Or do the the areas overlap, creating only a 40-foot radius of illumination?

I know there are tons of FAQs and articles and such out there, but they only seem to cover the interaction between overlapping areas of illumination (or lack there of).

If possible, please back up your answer with official sources.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Does anybody actually do it? That is, do you make note that you used "item X" at 2:00pm yesterday, and thus can't use it again until 2:00pm today?

Or is it more like this in practice:

Did you use it yet today? No? Than you can use it today.

Essentially having the item reset with rest, similar to some spellcasters' spellcasting abilities, rather than actually having to wait an actual 24 hours. It's just plain easier for everyone to track that way.

Why aren't all such items like this?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

What methods exist for getting spells known from another class' spell list?

In particular, I'm playing a drug addled psychic that would really appreciate being able to poach the alleviate addiction spell (from Black Markets) from the alchemist, cleric, druid, paladin, ranger, shaman, or witch spell list.

I could probably get it with the Sahir-Afiyun feat, but I'm already crazy feat starved.


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Grappled creatures cannot move and take a –4 penalty to Dexterity. A grappled creature takes a –2 penalty on all attack rolls and combat maneuver checks, except those made to grapple or escape a grapple.

I think the intent of the rules is that you don't take a penalty to grapple YOUR GRAPPLER, or to escape YOUR GRAPPLER, but I feel like you should take the penalty when trying to grapple SOMEONE ELSE. Does anybody know if there is any support to this theory?

(This came up in our game because a monster got grappled by a black tentacles spell, and the monster wants to grapple a nearby PC in turn.)


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

So the Hell's Vengeance Player's Guide recommends that antipaladin as one of its class/archetype choices. What I want to know is how this is supposed to work in anything that isn't PvP?

One of our players has opted to take that path, sadly.

Our first game was pretty bad overall. The antipaladin player was never supposed to have been part of the game in the first place, but I guess he either coerced the GM into getting in, or she invited him out of feelings of guilt. Either way, he spent the night criticizing my brother's character choices, criticizing my (real-world) religion, and actively causing chaos everywhere he went for no other reason than to annoy my friend's Hell Knight (a "law is all" Judge Dredd concept).

If that wasn't enough, he openly bragged about how powerful he was going to become, and how "you all better have good Fortitude saves, because I'm infecting all of you in a couple of levels!"

I understand that there is a lot of out-of-game things that need to be dealt with here, and I intend to talk to the GM about it, but what I really want to discuss is the following:

How does a party ever survive having an anti-paladin in it for long? Even if he chose to play the more controlled LE tyrant archetype (he didn't), then he would still be a walking, talking, festering plague factory that passively weakens everyone in the group just by being there. How does the party even begin to deal with that? How could an antipaladin ever be anything other than a loner?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

What the hell is going on here?

Is this, or anything remotely like it, actually in the Kingmaker adventure path? Or is my GM just crazy enough to throw a super charged up shambler at us? Damn thing is using shocking grasp against us as attacks of opportunity for Pete's sake! What on earth is going on?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I have just started playing a level one shabti psychic (see link below) with the self-perfection discipline in Hell's Vengeance. Hardly optimal, I know, but the idea of playing a character that exists solely to suffer eternally in place of someone else in the afterlife in a setting chock full of damned NPCs was too good a concept to pass up. I have also never played a psychic before, and was interested in seeing what they could do.

The more I think about the long game, the more I have trouble deciding where I want the character to go mechanically. Psychics get no bonus feats, and I'm not human, so I'm basically as feat starved as one can possibly get. What's more, there isn't a whole lot synergy with their class abilities and other rules of the game.

So far, I have taken Spell Focus (divination) and the Gifted Adept (mind thrust) trait. I also plan on taking Spell Specialization (mind thrust) at 3rd-level.

I really want to be a "mind thrust specialist" I'm thinking, but the above, plus an orange prism ioun stone and Spell Perfection in the later game (which may never happen) is all that I can think of to boost it. I was also considering taking Bloatmage Initiate, but then I realized I would lose my AC bonus class ability in addition to the feat's already steep penalties.

Any help boosting my ability with mind thrust would be greatly appreciated.

I'm also open to ideas for alternate paths if you have any suggestions.

Here is my character sheet as it stands now.

Here is the progression that I am currently considering, but am not altogether happy with yet.


37 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

For FAQing, not discussion. Please discuss here. The rules in the the Advanced Player's Guide for favored class bonuses contradict those found in Occult Adventures.

Advanced Player's Guide, Page 9, paragraph 3 [PRD Link]

Advanced Player's Guide wrote:
For example, a dwarf with rogue as his favored class adds +1/2 to his trap sense ability regarding stone traps each time he selects the alternate rogue favored class benefit; though this means the net effect is +0 after selecting it once (because +1/2 rounds down to +0), after 20 levels this benefit gives the dwarf a +10 bonus to his trap sense (in addition to the base value from being a 20th-level rogue).

Occult Adventures, Page 84, paragraph 4, last two sentences. [PRD Link]

Occult Adventures wrote:
If an alternate favored class option modifies a class feature or ability, it can't be taken before the character has that class feature or ability. For example, if a class gains a class feature at 6th level, a character couldn't take a racial favored class option that applies to that class feature until 6th level, even if the benefit from that option wouldn't be high enough to add a bonus until a later level.

Which rule is supposed to be correct? Which is intended to take precedent?


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CBDunkerson wrote:

Page 84, paragraph 4, last two sentences.

Also, right here

"If an alternate favored class option modifies a class feature or ability, it can't be taken before the character has that class feature or ability. For example, if a class gains a class feature at 6th level, a character couldn't take a racial favored class option that applies to that class feature until 6th level, even if the benefit from that option wouldn't be high enough to add a bonus until a later level."

So, human paladins can no longer take the energy resistance option since they never had it to begin with? Hurrah for stealth errata!

I'm pretty sure this wasn't the law of the land before, but as of the release of Occult Adventures, it's certainly official now.

*head desk*


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Bloatmage Initiate wrote:
Unfortunately, the side effects cause you to be constantly under the effects of a medium load—your maximum bonus to AC from Dexterity is +3, you gain an armor check penalty of –3, and your speed decreases as appropriate (generally from 30 feet to 20 feet for a Medium creature).

The en dash has left me to wonder if the list of penalties mentioned is an exhaustive list. Is it?

Do I have to worry about other medium load interactions, or just those mentioned above?

For example, I am considering taking Bloodmage Initiate with my self-perfection discipline psychic in order to boost my Mind Thrust damage, but I fear that I will lose access to my AC bonus class ability.


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The black tentacles spell says that the tentacles deal damage with a successful check to maintain the grapple. It never really says that the tentacles let go if they fail the check though. So...are the victims only able to escape on their turn?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I'm trying to find ways to boost my caster level with mind thrust for my psychic. Unfortunately, many of the tried and true methods (Varissian Tattoo, Outlander trait, etc.) only work for arcane casters, not psychic casters.

So far I have the gifted adept trait, and will be picking up Spell Specialization. At high levels, I guess I can get Spell Perfection to double the former feat's effect, as well as an orange prism ioun stone. Is there anything else I can do?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

If I cast inflict pain on a target, and they make their save, reducing the effect's duration to one round, are their saves still reduced against my second spell the following round?

Clearly it lasts from my turn to my turn, but when precisely on my turn does it end? Before or after I get my follow up spell off? Why?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Our group is about to start up Hell's Vengeance, and one of my friends is considering playing a cavalier (ghost rider). However, cavalier was nowhere mentioned in the Player's Guide as a recommended class, so there are concerns that he will run into the classic "can't use your mount due to environment" problem that is so problematic for the class.

For those of you who are familiar with the adventure path, would cavalier be alright, or would it face too many hurdles? If you can answer without spoiling too much that would be much appreciated.


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[link]

The above FAQ only clarifies attacks made on your turn while using two-weapon fighting.

Would you be able to attack with both armor spikes and the greatsword if you were NOT using two-weapon fighting, splitting up the attacks between your iterative attacks?

If you attacked with a reach weapon, such as a longspear, could you still threaten adjacent spaces with another weapon (such as armor spikes), and could make attacks of opportunity with them, until your next turn?


6 people marked this as FAQ candidate.
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James Jacobs wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:

Is the catoblepas in the Bestiary II supposed to be Large or Huge? He has the space and reach of a Huge creature, but all its other stats indicate that it is only Large.

What are it's correct stats?

Hmmm... it's space should be Large sized, but the rest is fine.

[LINK]

How come this has never been errata'd?

Also,

Does someone using beast shape IV gain the catoblepas' breath weapon?

The Poison Breath extraordinary ability is not listed under the spell, so one might argue that you DON'T get it. However, breath weapons ARE listed under the spell (of which Poison Breath is clearly listed as under special attacks), so others might argue that you DO get it.

Yet still other people might argue that you get the breath weapon line of the stat block, but not the Poison Breath line. That begs the question, what then?


15 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I have a gunslinger player in my game who dual-wields pepperbox pistols to devastating effect. Several people have come forward in an unrelated thread to tell me that this shouldn't be possible, as you need two hands to turn the barrels for the next shot (thus precluding having two hands available to dual-wield). It's even been likened to wielding a pair of longbows.

I for one don't think it follows. Pepperboxes are clearly listed as one-handed weapons and, unlike two-handed weapons like bows, follow the rules for one-handed weapons.

My player in question uses a glove of storing to free up one of his hands so he can rotate the barrel. This of course, created an off-topic online discussion about "metaphysical hands" and other such nonsense which, even if verified, I don't personally believe is applicable to this particular case.

So my question is thus: Is it possible to dual-wield one-handed pepperbox pistols? Or does the need for a free hand to rotate the barrel somehow interfere with that? If it does, is there a build or combo out there that makes it possible?

I thought we were already playing according to the RAW, but that clearly has been brought into question.


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I can't seem to print full size maps (that is, with 1-inch grid squares) from my Skull and Shackles Map Pack PDF. How do I extract them from the document?

If this is impossible, then I have to ask: What is the point of selling worthless maps to players? If I wanted tiny maps we couldn't play on, I would have just stuck to what's in the adventure module.


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.
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If a symbol spell, such as symbol of death, is placed on one side of an archway (set to trigger when someone observes, studies, or passes beneath it), and the PCs come through from the OTHER SIDE of the archway, do they ever get a Perception check to become aware of the trap before setting it off?


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Got a game coming up in which my players will be facing a 12th-level cleric and her minions. There is a gunslinger in the party that absoltely obliterates everything in his path.

The cleric in question has been scrying on the party and knows their tactics and has taken countermeasures.

The only thing she isn't protected against is the gunslinger. Not even wind wall or fickle winds seem like they will help much, providing only a 30% miss chance to her and her minions (which means she will still die in a round or two).

So...what other options might a 12th-level cleric have? (She possesses the charm and trickery domains.)


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Is it possible to dispel the effects of a control weather spell, when you are within the affected area, but otherwise nowhere near the caster or point of origin?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The Mysteries of the Past ability of the Speak of the Past shaman archetype appears to have a typo:

Mysteries of the Past: A speaker for the past gains Linguistics, Knowledge (history), Knowledge (local), Perception, and Use Magic Device as class skills. Also, she adds the spells from the ancestor and time oracle mysteries to her class spell list (at the cleric level for those spells).

Shouldn't it say "(at the oracle level for those spells)" rather than cleric level? Many of the spells don't appear on the cleric spell list in the first place, and so it doesn't make much sense as written.


31 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 1 person marked this as a favorite.
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I'm creating this thread for FAQing purposes. The discussion thread can be found here.

Can druids wild shape into polar bears?

Polar bears recently gained a standalone stat block in the Bestiary V, which indicates that druids probably should be allowed to wild shape into that form, but on closer inspection, it is clearly just the templated bear mentioned from the first Bestiary, which is technically an illegal option per the polymorph rules.

Polymorph Rules wrote:
Unless otherwise noted, polymorph spells cannot be used to change into specific individuals. Although many of the fine details can be controlled, your appearance is always that of a generic member of that creature's type. Polymorph spells cannot be used to assume the form of a creature with a template or an advanced version of a creature.

If druids can wild shape into polar bears now, is it safe to assume that other variant animals should also be legal for polymorph spells and effects as well?

I've included a list of all of the variant animals in all of the Bestiaries for ease of reference below:

If these variant animals remain illegal, what is the justification/reasoning behind the restriction, and how should players and GMs rationalize the restriction within the in-game mythos?


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What was the out-of-game reasoning behind the design decision that lead to this unnecessary restriction? What in the in-game mythos allows a druid to turn into a bear, but not a polar bear?

If you know the answer, please share. If you THINK you might know the reasons behind it, please join the discussion and share your thoughts.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

So spark of life is a universal utility wild talent that can be taken by any kineticist.

Aerokineticists summon air elementals
Geokineticists summon earth elementals
Hydrokineticists summon water elementals
Pyrokineticsts summon fire elementals
Telekineticists summon aether elementals

So what do chaokineticists summon? Murder elementals?

And while we're at it, what about the phytokineticist?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Skull and Shackles possesses rules for fleet combat. This question is in regards to those:

Say I attack a squadron for 12 damage and get to assign it due to a Flagship Boon. What happens if I attempt to place 5 damage on a 4-point ship? Does it sink? The rules don't explicitly state to treat it as hit points.

Is it only possible to sink a ship with two salvos, one to reduce its hits to 0, and another to sink it?


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What is it?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

So with the new errata with the scorpion whip, am I to assume that it cannot be used to attack people 15 feet away unless I also have whip proficiency?


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Phasic Challenge is a new spell from the Magic Tactics Toolbox that makes it so two targets can interact with each other, and only each other, with attacks, spells and effects. The targets are essentially removed from reality, though both targets remain
visible and audible, and can see and hear other creatures. They literally cannot physically interact with any other creatures at all. However, they can still effect terrain with their spells or actions.

The intent for the spell was clearly to make for one on one battles between the two targets. However, there's nothing in the spell specifically stating that one of the targets has to be an enemy.

So...how do we best break this broken spell? You essentially have a 1 round/level "god mode" for two characters that can't be interacted with, but they can still effect the terrain around you.

What spells, items, abilities, etc. might best help you destroy your enemies indirectly?


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I was thinking of getting a Kindle Fire that's on sale as my first tablet. The thought was to use it as a roleplaying tool that will allow access Pathfinder rules apps, Pathfinder PDF books that I own, and Microsoft Word/Excel documents of character sheets during roleplaying games.

What I want to know is, for those who own one, what has your experience been like? Does it read PDFs at all? Is it smooth and easy, or clunky and troublesome with the Pathfinder PDFs in particular?

Is it compatible with Microsoft Office documents? Can I view them? Edit them on the tablet? Can I easily sync them back to Microsoft OneDrive or elsewhere on my desktop computer?

I read somewhere that you can get a Microsoft Office app for an android device if you had an Office 465 subscription; is that true?

Is this a purchase you would recommend for this purpose? Or would you recommend something else instead? If so, what and why? (I prefer not to spend more than $150 or so.)


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Shouldn't the Hidden Blade ability of the Knife Master rogue archetype say "(minimum +1)"? All other class abilities with similar wording say that, which leads me to believe it was omitted by mistake. Otherwise, you're giving up a 1st-level ability for an archetype ability that does nothing for you at level 1.


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The Leadeship feat says that your cohort gains a fraction of the XP you do. Does that remain true regardless? Or does this assume the cohort is adventuring with you all the while?

If your cohort stays at home and crafts, for example, does it ever gain any XP at all?


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Are there any rules out there for reducing a shield's armor check penalty? Or perhaps for increasing a fighter's armor training bonuses?

I'm trying to get my tower shield's armor check penalty down to 0. So far I've managed to reduce it by 9, but I don't see how I can do better without gaining three more levels in fighter.

This is what I've got so far:


  • -3, armor training 3 (8th-level fighter with sash of the war champion)
  • -3, Tower Shield Specialist feat* (Armor Master's Handbook)
  • -2, darkwood tower shield
  • -1, Improved Shield Focus feat (Armor Master's Handbook)

* This feat also allows me to apply the armor training bonuses to the tower shield

I could simply wait three levels and armor training will take care of the penalty for me, but I want to get rid of the penalty entirely at as low a level as possible.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Is it just me or is the oft-repeated phrase "...against foes who are unaware of his presence" the only thing that is really keeping the vigilante from being on par with other classes?

Half of the vigilante's abilities are basically relegated to once per combat (assuming ideal conditions in the first place!) because of those abominable words, essentially allowing the class to stay competitive with other classes' DPR for all of one round before becoming patently worse than some NPC builds I've seen.

I have yet to show the class to a single friend who was impressed with it. What don't you like about the class and why? What redeeming qualities do you think it possesses?


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So I've just updated my playtest vigilante, Caybun Weer (aka, The Dark Knight) to the real deal, and I gotta say...I'm not terribly impressed with it.

The Dark Knight, 12th-level human masked vigilante

Breakdown/Strategies:

The Dark Knight specializes in hunting down and ambushing his foes, preferably with hit and run tactics. If enemies are alone or far apart from one another, he maintains his stealth, moving in and dragging each enemy quietly into the shadows before dispatching them, one by one.

To do this, he uses his Pull Into The Shadows vigilante talent to approach an enemy from hiding. He then strikes the target for his unarmed damage (1d8+12) plus his hidden strike damage (6d8). Once struck, he makes an Intimidate check to demoralize his foe as a free action with his Frightening Appearance class ability. Once the target is demoralized (and possibly frightened as well) he also suffers from an additional 6d4 nonlethal damage and may be dragged into the shadows (per the combat maneuver). The Silent Dispatch and Throat Jab vigilante talents ensure none of the target's allies hear what is happening to their lone companion all the while.

When facing a group of alert enemies in a tighter area, the Dark Knight may rush in, attacking the nearest foe from an area of darkness, as above (creating darkness by destroying torches beforehand with his stylized chakram if need be), but having his Frightening Appearance and Twisting Fear abilities damage and debuff all other foes within 10 feet of the target as well. Against enemies who can't see in the dark, he simply repeats the hit and run, dragging enemies into the shadows to beat them to a pulp. Against enemies who can see into the darkness, he instead relies on Spring Attack to break line of sight, allowing stealth checks, and to keep his enemies on their toes and preventing them from making full attacks against him.

Being able to deal 60ish damage at 12th-level under ideal conditions seems rather lackluster to me--especially since that can only happen when the enemy is wholly unaware of me. After that surprise round, DPR takes a serious nose dive.

Does the vigilante class leave much to be desired, from a combat perspective, or did I just do something really wrong in my build?


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If the rules say that an eidolon gains X ability, but doesn't mention the evolutions, does X ability duplicate the relevant evolution?

Take the serpentine eidolon base form for example; it has a tail slap attack.

Does this mean it also has the tail and tail slap evolutions? Or just a natural attack? If it is the former, then there are skill bonuses towards Acrobatics; if it is the latter, then only the natural attack is gained.

This might also make a difference for things that effect evolutions (as opposed to just free abilities) or for evolutions that limit how many times you take them.


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. 10 people marked this as a favorite.
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STEP 1: Concealing the casting FX

In order to conceal the (unwritten-in-the-rules) magical emanations of spellcasting you need the following:

- Cunning Caster (feat)
- Deceitful (feat)
- Bluff (skill)

This allows you to make a Bluff check opposed by all nearby observers' Perception checks in order to conceal the "magical floating...things" that appear when you cast--you know, those things that aren't mentioned anywhere in the rules, but the developers insist are a real thing.

There's a catch, however. You take a cumulative -4 penalty to said Bluff check for each of the following:

- Focus/Divine Focus
- Material Component
- Spell possesses an obvious effect (such as fireball or summon monster)
- Somatic Component
- Verbal Component

That means, you have to absolutely max out your Bluff skill to have any hope at all. Max ranks, Deceitful (which you already have since its a prerequisite), Skill Focus, racial bonuses, high Charisma, circlet of persuasion, a viper familiar, etc.

You will also need the following feats: Eschew Materials, Silent Spell, and Still Spell. These will allow you to ignore most of the penalties if you happen to be high level with lots of high-level spell slots to spare for lower level spells.

Without these things, the crippling penalties make it not even worth it.

STEP 2: Conceal the Spell Components

You will need the following:
- Bluff (skill)
- Conceal Spell (feat)
- Deceitful (feat)
- Disguise (skill)
- Improved Conceal Spell (feat)
- Sleight of Hand (skill)

Conceal Spell lets you cast a spell while concealing the Verbal or Somatic components behind mundane gestures or common speech. The spell's casting time (if a standard action) is increased to a full round or, if longer, doubles.

To discover your ruse, a creature must succeed at a Perception, Sense Motive, or Spellcraft check (the creature receives an automatic check with whichever of those skills has the highest bonus) against a DC equal to 15 + your number of ranks in Bluff or Disguise (whichever is higher) + your Charisma modifier; the creature gains a bonus on its check equal to the level of the spell or spell-like ability you are concealing.

If your spell has a somatic component, any creature that can see you receives a Perception or Spellcraft check (whichever has the highest bonus) against a DC equal to 15 + your number of ranks in Sleight of Hand + your Dexterity modifier; the creature gains a bonus on its check equal to the level of the spell or spell-like ability you are concealing.

So not only do they get to choose the higher of multiple skills with which to beat your static DC, they get a bonus equal to the level of your spell and they (most likely) get to make two checks, either of which, if successful, will totally ruin your day.

The Improved Conceal Spell gets rid of their bonus equal to your spell's level, making it an essential feat. Without it, they will see through the ruse more often then not, outing you as a criminal and ending your character's career early.

Hurray for feats that not only don't work well, they get your character retired.

STEP 3: Stop the Mental Ping

If you're using enchantment spells, and somehow manage to successfully conceal the spellcasting and the spell's components, a particularly strong-willed individual still might make their save and receive a "mental ping" that lets them know they were just mentally attacked. Furthermore, they can make a Knowledge check to identify what spell they were just targeted by. In order to prevent that from happening, you need the following:

- Deceitful (feat)
- Spell Focus: enchantment (feat)
- Subtle Enchantments (feat)

There's yet another catch, however. This feat doesn't eliminate the mental ping exactly. There's a static-you-can't-do-anything-to-improve-it 50% chance that it still occurs. Why? Hell if I know. Maybe the game developers simply delight in player characters going to prison or being lynched, or for GMs to be wholly unable to do anything in front of the PCs while keeping them unawares.

Final Thoughts

So in order to really make it work, all you really need is the following:

- 10 feats
- 3 maxed out skills
- Really high Charisma and Dexterity scores

I might be able to pull this all together at around 11th- or 13th-level or so with a human sorcerer. However, odds are I'm still going to fail the attempt more often than not, defeating the entire purpose.

Discussion Topic
Why is it so difficult to conceal spellcasting in Pathfinder? What do the developers have against scheming wizards and conniving sorcerer viziers who might want to use their magic discreetly?

I can understand stiff prerequisites and a short feat chain, but 10 feats and nearly your entire skill investment (if a sorcerer) only to have to face umpteenth hurdles anyways? Such a high level of investment combined with a low success rate kind of makes the whole concept/execution pointless, no?

EDIT: Here is an excerpt from my Crazy Character Emporium thread, in which I attempted to make this build work at as low level as possible:

Ravingdork wrote:

NEW CHARACTER

Rafaj, 11th-level human snake charmer - A grand master of subtle magic.

Rafaj is a manipulative snake in manskin who is capable of concealing all of his spells' components, suppressing any outward displays of his magical casting, and preventing his enchantment spells from alerting their respective targets of the mental assault. This allows him to subtly control those of lesser will, out in the open, without their knowledge.

As a master manipulator, Rafaj prefers to manipulate others into doing his bidding from behind the scenes, even casting concealed spells out in the open if need be. Against particularly powerful foes, he uses his viper or a friendly handshake to lower his foe's saves with bestow curse before following up with control spells.

If forced into combat, Rafaj relies on defensive spells to buy himself time while he puts his fighting minions to work (most of whom might not even realize they are being controlled until the first order is given). When more direct methods are called for, he instead uses hold monster or deep slumber to disable his attackers (preferably the former as it is faster and allows him to gloat as he slits his victims' throats). He is also fond of conjuring pits of acid in order to dispose of unwanted bodies or other evidence of his wrongdoings.

He is currently statted as a serpentine bloodline sorcerer, but I am considering also writing up a mesmerist version of this character.

Let me know if it effects your own thoughts on these feats.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Does this thing come painted? Or do I have to paint it myself?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The spiritualist's spells known table seems to conflict with the text:

A spiritualist's selection of spells is limited. A spiritualist begins play knowing four 0-level spells and two 1st-level spells of the spiritualist's choice. At each new spiritualist level, she learns one or more new spells as indicated on the Spiritualist Spells Known table. Unlike her number of spells per day, the number of spells a spiritualist knows does not affect her Wisdom score. The numbers on the Spiritualist Spells Known table are fixed.

Whereas the table shows her knowing 4 1st-level spells and 2 2nd-level spells. I'm thinking the table it wrong, as that shouldn't be the case for a 1st-level character.

Also, why would her spells known effect her Wisdom score???

EDIT: I see now that the table header is misaligned.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Ultimate Intrigue features some interesting new feats:

Improved Bravery, which lets a fighter apply their bravery bonus on all mind-affecting effects, and Inspiring Bravery, which lets the fighter apply their bravery bonus towards all of their allies within 30 feet (including against mind-affecting effects if you have Improved Bravery).

I intend to stack this with a sash of the war champion, so that his bravery bonus treats him as having four more levels of fighter than he already has.

Is there anything else I could stack on top of this to boost not just his own Will saves, but those around him?


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  • How to adjudicate charm person.
  • How to adjudicate interacting with illusions.
  • How to adjudicate certain aspects of simulacrum.
  • How to handle divinations at low to high levels.
  • How to handle numerous other "game-breaking" spells at low to high levels.
  • What the Bluff skill can and cannot get a target to do.
  • What happens when someone tells an implausible truth.
  • How to handle the Bluff skill in a group setting (such as when the rest of the party is present, but aren't themselves good liars).
  • How to handle lies that are actually true.
  • Determining surprise rounds when combat breaks out during social interaction.
  • Diplomacy is not mind control.
  • How to adjudicate a call for a cease fire in the midst of combat.
  • How frequently to oppose Disguise checks with Sense Motive checks.
  • What happens when someone sees through your illusion/transmutation, but not your Disguise check result.
  • How to explain negative consequences with logic, using Intimidate without relying on inducing fear.
  • How to better adjudicate Perception/Stealth skill interactions.
  • The differences between "unaware", "aware of presence", "aware of location", and "observing."
  • How to properly get a "hunch" using the Sense Motive skill.
  • Sense Motive is not mind reading.

What did you learn from this wonderful, wonderful book?

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