Rapthorn2ndform's page

Yes.

And No.

But mostly Maybe.

Really, what you're talking about, space stations, dozens of artifacts, multiple hundreds of magic items, a Wealth-by-Level nightmare beyond anything I would expect for a 40th level character, is so far beyond anything covered in the rules that, at this point, you're way way way WAY out in the area of "GM does what he wants because he has to make it all up anyway because there are no rules".

Athough, with 6 months left, I think the best thing you can do is to form a pact with a bunch of elder gods, say, Cthulhu, Azathoth, and maybe Shub-Ngurrath to be sure, and get them all to contingency-plane-shift into your space station the instant after all those other contingency spells go off so they can beat up Azzy and eat his soul.

Hey it isn't MY fault, every few days i sent the devil to get me materials. Asmodeus told him "Get him what he needs", every few times i'd slip a sphere or hole onto the list. And this went on for OBVIOUSLY way to long before i figured out a way to do get him here.

Why would Asmodeus even care? He probably has other sons, and if not, he can have some whenever he feels like it.

Because the DM says so. Although he said it was an insult to have his son fall in such a way, and was probably goig to bring him back just to torture him.

Well...I'm in DEEP trouble. I managed to PISS OFF Asmodeus...BAD.
Ya see, one of the other players said his character was the son of Asmodeus. He betrayed the party and I killed him. THEN BAD HAPPENED.

The party was in a place that blocked dimensional travel. WE FELT THE ROOM SHAKE. My character made the arcana roll to realize that something powerful was trying to get through. Everybody else panics, I seal the dead characters soul in a gem and ready an action for the moment the dimensional barrier to break. Right before the thing steps out, I create a portal to the middle of the abyss and throw the gem in.

Asmodeus steps out and I shout, "Yeah, you're son's soul is through that portal. You may be able to stop us AND get it, maybe not. Bye." and i plane shift the party to Pharasma's Boneyard.

After LONG debates between the gods (mostly thanks to Iodmea and Sarenrea being on our side and Pharasma demanding that there would be no fighting in her domain) They decided on this.
1. Only I would be punished (My character volunteered this)
2. I would never set foot within 1 km of a city again.
3. I would devote my life to find a way to get his son's soul back.

So, my character built that space station that had floated around the forums a week or two ago. Asmodeus assigned a devil to fetch me materials and texts I need.

So, I've found the only way would be to lure as many of the demon lords and horsemen summit on neutral ground (or lack there of because the location in my space station.) and send a group of high level adventurers to get the soul. My station was chosen by Asmodeus (well, bey the dm in an attempt to throw me off) because it is so distant from the world and it already has massive layers of anti-scrying and anti-teleportataion/planes shifting spell already in place. What i also have in place are dozens of spheres of annihilation with contingency gate cast on them for when 20 or more evil creatures are in the room directly above, the meeting room. Above the room are hundreds of bags of holding suspended above as many portable holes, set to fall the moment the gate spells go off.

So, is this enough? Do i need more? My character still has 6 months to prepare. Will this destroy the world?

So...I've made a few mistakes in a game I've beer running. Firstly, The party level varies form 3rd to 7th because of certain players not being available for a few sessions. Secondly, I have accidentally been sending low treasure encounters for some time. Things like savages, animals and unintelligent undead. So many of the characters are WAY behind.

The first problem will be hand-waved. The second is a bit more difficult. So here is what i'd like. Ideas for High treasure, mid-to-low challenge encounters.

Just ideas, throw as many as you can. Right now, I'm stuck on a bandit lord and his crew hiding out in an abandoned diamond mine.

Personal favourite: hold person glyph trap.

Another option: displacement, straight 50% miss chance. Combine this with other support spells like mirror image for great effect. First a 1/2 chance of hitting and then a 1/6 chance of hitting the real one.

For keeping mooks alive: use difficult terrain like rubble and underbrush. You cannot charge over difficult terrain, thus limited threat.

Another option: flying looks.

It's under the Magic rules section under Saving Throws.

PRD wrote:

The spell can be cast on objects, which receive saving throws only if they are magical or if they are attended (held, worn, grasped, or the like) by a creature resisting the spell, in which case the object uses the creature's saving throw bonus unless its own bonus is greater.

So if the item is "attended" (held, worn, grasped, etc) then it uses the attendee's Will save. If it is unattended, it gets no save and suffers the effect as if it had failed the save.

Perfect, Thanks my friend.

Mundane items use their wielder/bearer's saving throw. Unattended mundane items make no saving throw at all.

Thanks man, any way you can source? Just can't find the ruling anywhere.

Chill Metal allows for an item will save. I found the ruling for Magic items but not for mundane ones. Any help.

As I read this:

Shatter Weapons (Ex) Whenever a character strikes a caryatid column with a weapon (magical or nonmagical), the weapon takes 3d6 points of damage. Apply the weapon's hardness normally. Weapons that take any amount of damage in excess of their hardness gain the broken quality.

If a weapon has a hardness of (hypothetically) 5, and a 6 total is rolled on the 3d6, the weapon gains the broken quality.
As compared to the alternative of it having taken 1 dammage (1 < 5) and it is not broken till it takes another 5 damage after hardness.

I am interested in this, I might try something like this on some of my own players, could you either post here or PM me some of the details of the buffs you are giving the PCs please.

But to answer your original question, worf-ing the dragons always puts a bad taste in my mouth, dragons are described as some of the only races who's power tier rivals the gods themselves, in 2e they were the big bad evil guy almost every time it wasn't a demon a wizard in his tower or something regional (like drow or illithids) but from what I've seen worfing them seems almost cliché
I do want to point out that the Asgardians had their own dragons that were significantly stronger than the ice giants (Norse mythology is fun) the closest thing paizo has to them is/are the linnorms (they are all very very big, have very powerful breath attacks and if you hurt/kill them you are subject to various curses) if you are sticking true to the mithology, most linnorms should also be casters of at least 4th level,

The only ones i can think of are THE dragon from Beowulf, the Niohoggr in the roots of Yggdrasil and the one slain by Siegfried.

Because I am unoriginal I may or may not have them fight the Jabberwok re skinned as Fin Fang Foom.(Even though this is more mythological Asgard than marvel Asgard, I can never resist using cool bestiary monsters every now and again. Hmm...getting a lot of new ideas.)

It's a bad idea to "Worf" the dragons if dragons are supposed to be the scary BBEGs that most fantasy makes them out to be. But if you're not doing that, then it's a dandy idea. Since you're making custom monsters to provide challenge, you won't need BBEG dragons, so it should be dandy. If your customer monsters include powerful dragons, make sure to give the players a distinction so they know why the first dragons were butter before their hot knives but the new dragons are kicking their butts.

Have you already taken into account the game rules for them being outsiders on this plane?

Yes I have, 3 of the races are. But one has an ability that makes it a native outsider on every plane it travels to.

So they can be dismissed, yes. However, I am ruling that spells that only target humanoids will work on them if cast by another outsider and viseversa.

The main enemies of the early game are going to be frost giants. The BBEG is the fire demon, Surtur.

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Worf-nerd term-origin, Star Trek: The Next Generation- Having a previously established, powerful character be horribly defeated by a new one to show how powerful a new one is.

The campaign name is "Defenders of the Realms". Here is the set up, all the player characters are Asgardians or other higher beings. I've told the players that they will far more powerful than normal 5th level characters but they don't seem to understand just HOW much.

SOOO...My plan is to have the fight 3 adult white dragons right out of the gate. The kicker, the players are going to walk through it with minimal difficulty. I'm custom making all the monsters they are going to fight so they will all be different and unexpected, unlike the standard Midgard Dragons. Also, normal humans will be considered small compared to them.

The execution. Me-"You enter the chamber, it filled to the brim with shining jewels and coin. On the far side of the room are three large white dragons that have corned 5 small warriors, 2 of which are grievously injured.
Player: "Well, what are they? The warriors?"
Me:"Do you have knowledge: the planes?"
Different Player: "Oh, I do" *rolls* "Oh, not so good. Only a 13"
Me: "Don't worry it was an easy check. They are the dominant race on This world. They are Humans"
*Players go nuts*

What are your thoughts?

LOL. And their father is this spear-wielding jerk of a Pack Leader ranger with two ravens and two wolves?

Before I showed up for the first game THE THREE of them ALL rewrote their back stories. I actually plan on implementing the Mythic rules.

Ninth looks about right, yes. But aren't you worried the party will be perpetually split, when one PC has a flying mount?

Not really, She has done good so far. They're an amicable group, if it becomes a problem I'll just let her know. We already "fixed" the problem of lv 1 10d6 shocking grasp.

bump. because impatient.

One of my players is asking about a half-celestial Pegasus cohort. I'm thinking ninth. Thoughts? It fits with her character, she wants to play a mounted valkyrie. I don't think it will change things to much as she already has a normal Pegasus. On a related note, the other party members include a Magus wielding a throwing/returning warhammer and his half giant illusionist brother. Keep in mind they never met before the game an decided on the brother part after seeing each others character.

2 people marked this as a favorite.

I second Valandil. It doesn't hurt to have some out-of-character metagame discussion with your young players when that is their expectation.

Another factor is they don't know how "hardcore" a GM you are. Sounds like your tendency is to play things realistically, enemies as smart, and that you won't forgive stupid mistakes. I teach a Pathfinder class with middle schoolers and I've found that the strong tendency with kids that age is to either be oblivious or to consciously try to "get away" with something and, once you lay down the law, claim they "didn't know!" :D

So a good rule is to be very, very explicit! "Out-of-character" objections be damned... Some of them are metagaming ALREADY thinking you'll take off the gloves, so it's not like you're introducing it! :D

Ya know, i never really considered myself a hardcore DM, I let way more things go then the DM I learned from (Who says he let way more things go from the DM he learned from) I'm 22 and I learned 3.5 when I was 14ish. But what baffled me was what i stated in the earlier post. There is a young, 6 year-old girl playing and she said "Uh...sleeping here is probably a bad idea, ya know there is that big locked door that Mr. Dm wen into a lot of detail about. Maybe we should sleep outside?"

It reminded me of "The Evil Overlord's List"
One of my advisors will be an average five-year-old child. Any flaws in my plan that he is able to spot will be corrected before implementation.

You say your players are young, how young? Kids might not understand your "subtle" hints. Tell them, "This is a REALLY bad idea". Then list the reasons why. Or you can always TPK them and then say it was all a dream.

Most of the group is made up of 10-14 year olds, there are a few rotating members (one is a first grader who is the ONLY one who objected to going to sleep right next to the big boss)

I'm considering having the BBEG wait for the paladin to sleep (take off his armor and what not), he knows what is going on so it's freezable that he want's to just punish them for their insolence by waiting for their heavy armors to be stripped down. (he can see through the eyes of animals, I mainly had him spy on them to know what battle prep they did, but now, it justifies him knowing who's on watch and when.)

Okay, I need to get my players to stop resting as often. The players are young so I've cut them some slack in the past, but most have been playing for over a year and it just got absurd recently.

So they go into a dungeon and have a decent fight at the entrance(only a cleric, ranger, and fighter are present.)
Then they have an ABSURDLY long and drawn out fight with 2 mimics due to bad luck (Nearly the entire party is there EXCEPT for the fighter from earlier.)
And lastly they have a very difficult fight with twice the number of enemies that they should have because a player opened the door to the next room where more enemies were sleeping. (Only a summoner, a DIFFERENT fighter and the same cleric.)

I have no problem with them wanting to rest after this (especially the cleric who had been running on fumes keeping everybody up), but their is a large door ominously off the the side in an earlier area that the ignored and instead decided to sleep in the enemies beds before their bodies had even cooled.

I punished this by having them ambushed while the were resting. The enemies were weaker then what they had already fought but without spells, they had a hard time.

I though i had taught them NOT to just sleep in any random place...BUT THEY DID IT AGAIN!

They are close to the end of the dungeon, and have only had ONE fight from their last rest. The Big Bad of the area appears in a fire burning in the room and taunts them to come and get him through the UNLOCKED door (opens in towards his room). Their reaction...better sleep.

I just want him and his contingent of guards to ambush them while they sleep, but i also don't want to be a complete jerk to them.

My opinion...WAY to good for dipping at level one.

Suggested changes...
-Change to level 3, possibly replacing still mind or maneuver training.
-Limit it to monk weapons and unarmed strikes. (altered by archetype)
-Remove the carrying capacity provision, leav SOME reason not to buy down to a 7 str.

Makes people less likely to just dip. As you have it now a wild-shaped druid would have to be crazy not to want it. They already love the wis to armor boost at lv 1 because of their wild shape taking away their armor but now they can dump str completely and use their 20 wisdom to tear apart foes with pounce, claw, claw, bite, rake. Also, for my own clarification, does this get multiplied by 1.5 for 2-handed?

Okay, what i want is an ominous sounding prophecy, saying that in order to defeat Asmodeous, the adventurers must face death. NOW THE KICKER! I want it to sound vague and interpretative. BUT they are going to fight Thanatos (An ancient death god) literally.

What i really hope is that they horribly misinterpret the story. And when the time comes that the Npc says nope, go kill death. *POOF* In combat.
http://images.wikia.com/megamitensei/images/archive/9/94/20090404020309!Tha natos-Concept.jpg

Onre thi g my group has been playing with, and plan to implement more formally, is to have a cadre of NPCs that act as "cohort-lite" to be able to fill in when a player misses a game. The cohorts are built fairly simply with feats like toughness and iron will S opposed to say Antagoni e or Turtle Clutch

Edit. OMG fat fingers little buttons. I hope you can read that.

Hadn't considered npcs like that, might work. And I've both read and typed worse.

Here

Thanks i had actually found them right after i posted the request for a link.

I'm reading through now...i honestly don't know about the mythic rules. On the one hand, it definitely can bridge the gap in power. On the other, i'm supposed to start this Thursday, and i'm not sure i will have time to learn the rules set by then. (and it's 52 pages to print out).

I'm keeping it under consideration but i'm going to wait and see for now. thanks.

Im an advocate of the Gestalt rules, but only for lower level games. After tenth level or so gestalt characters tend to get out of hand. Not necessarily game breaking, but just overly complex. Things slow down a lot.

You might also consider the Mythic rules. They might give your players enough of a power boost to 2-man a 4-man encounter.

Never mind, found it. Sorry.

Im an advocate of the Gestalt rules, but only for lower level games. After tenth level or so gestalt characters tend to get out of hand. Not necessarily game breaking, but just overly complex. Things slow down a lot.

You might also consider the Mythic rules. They might give your players enough of a power boost to 2-man a 4-man encounter.

I haven't scene the mythic rules, can you link me to the play test?

A few of my friends want to play to get into Pathfinder (they've all played a couple times before, but nothing long term), so I've decided to run a game at my house on Thursday. The problem is I'll have a MAX of four players, and will probably only get two reliably. I have a story in mind, but i fear that players playing multiple characters will screw up the rp sections but I've also heard some horror stories about Gestalt characters.

I'm not sure what i should do. I considered running normally and adjusting encounters, but two players is...difficult. It will make things seem less exciting if it's two characters vs. tree or four enemies. I've had HORRIBLE experiences with DMPCs, and don't really want to mess with how the other characters will behave.

So at this point I only see those two solutions. Any tips my online buddies?/)

The only time i've ever beaten Lucifer was by using a strategy called Tyrant-lock...in a completely different game.

To be honest i kinda think you guys are screwed.

But good luck.

Its sort of a low blow and that is one of the thing i like about my dm. If there are other threats, the monsters will leave unconscious characters most of the time.

No what i found worse was when i was playing a fighter with 2 etins on me (the rest of the party was near by, about a move action for one and a 5' foot step for the other.) First etin hit's me with all four attack reducing me to 1. Then the second etin crits me for 50ish. That is the only time i had wishe i had taken MORE damage.

nobody?

I like it, it's a great villain.

If your worried about offending your players, try talking with them to find the limits of their...offence...?
I mean, definitely not for kids. But i don't imagine to many others getting that offended.

I only remember the 3.5 elf trance, i THINK that was removed in pathfinder but am not positive.

Forelegs (Working on name)
You need your arms to help you move around. When you move more than 5' on your turn, you take a -2 penalty to all attack rolls with non-natural weapons until the start of your next turn.

This next part could also use better wording

This penalty only applies if the movement is on land.

Any better wording? Better name? RP Cost?

Made for 3 dragon-like races for a home game (one with wings, two without) that could conceivably use a weapon but because their front legs are also used for movement it's not as easy to do. They could still use their claws but a sword might be difficult.

If you have a better way to implement entirely, i'm open to suggestions.

Thanks in advance /)

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I don't hate the monk for it's flavor. I don't particularly care for it's flavor either, but it never bugged me that much.
No, the reason i hate the monk is because of it's mechanics.
Director: okay guys wee need this guy to be fast, and agile. give him a mystic feel and some other martial arts abilities.
Dev 1: makes flurry of blows, combat maneuver stuff, monk weapons, gives full bab, evasion and bonus feats.
Dev 2: Fast movement, ki Pool, slow fall, all good saves, magic wisdom armor, average bab, and scaling unarmed damage.
Director: Both of these could work but...slap them together, nobody'll notice.

I just feels like the monk is a class that had WAY to many ideas and none of them were executed properly.
E.G.: My best abilities allow me to move really far and do stuff when not moving.
E.G.:I'm a front line fighter who can't do anything at a range. I need to be away from the enemy because of my lower hp and ac.

Als i don't get the scaling unarmed damage. No other weapons scale, why should fists. I'd rather be a fighter and deal a d8+8+str+magic at mid level than a monk dealing 2d10+str+(really expensive)magic at 20th. I just don't think big damage dice are worth it.
(Actually i think that's the biggest problem i have with it, the stupid unarmed damage, if it just stayed a d6 and was cheaper to enhance, maybe let them take weapon spec. I don't know i think it may be that one ability that bugs me the most)

I'd like to change my vote
Go for 9th level wizard spells
I forgot that the 8th lv cleric ones aren't that great

I'd go cleric personally.
And get 8th level in both.

Let me start off by saying, women can be just at good at gaming as men (if not better)
BUT both of the female dnd/pathfinder players i play with on a regular basis are BOTH infuriating in their own way.

The first, played a 1 rogue/3 sorc. specializing in two-weapon fighting with whip and short sword, wearing leather armor (no arcane armor training)...and constantly complained about not ding well. This may not have been as bad if the dm did a better job (In this game, every character needed to be min-maxed to hell and back to survive even 1 encounter, while he looked down as looked down on power-gaming [2 quotes from the fist session "your fighter took wep. focus, power attack and cleave at 1st lv. Really?" "Why shouldn't my 6 orc barbarians have put 18s in their strength and taken power attack with great swords"]) Here are how her turns went Step 1, run into melee. Step 2, full attack at a +4/+4, provoking an attack of opp. Step 3, go down to below 0 hp and complain for the rest of the session about it being unfair. It was not help by the fact that she decided to play her character as a prostitute. (She's now playing a mermaid oracle with the "lame" curse, in a desert game, that i am thankfully not playing in)

The second, is is entering her 6th century, and has played dnd sense it came out. She carries separate FULL SETS of dice for every little thing (One for attack rolls and damage, one for skills, one for saves, one for her OTHER weapon, one for her horse), why would you ever need a d8 in a skill check. She can't build a character to save her life, and regardless of what class it is...it's a fighter. Right now she's playing a goblin monk with a str. 12 dex. 14 con. 14 int. 14 wis. 16 cha. (bumped at 4th )10. This game you can afford to be less optimized but... she never hits (In fact, she misses by one SO OFTEN, her name is now the official term for "missing by one"). Her turns take FOREVER, as she looks at the bored, moves, miscounts, starts over, gets the rules mixed up, declares flurry, we correct her, she argues, tell her we've had this argument at least once each session, corrects herself, looks for the correct die, rolls die, looks over her entire character sheet for her bonus, misses, PUTS THE DIE BACK IN THE HUGE CASE WITH THE REST OF THEM JUST TO PULL THEM OUT AGAIN NEXT TURN! As she is...she is dead weight, with bad luck with hp, low ac, terrible bonus to hit, no damage, never remembering any of her monk abilities except flurry, insistence on being in the front, and overall poor attitude. One small switch, the 14 from int and the 10 in dex and she would have been a compitant, maybe pretty good character.

I've played with others, but these two...ugh

Alternate classes are just archetypes with full progressions typed out in a table and an iconic.

http://paizo.com/forums/dmtz3e77&page=2?Alternate-class-what-I-dont-get -it#58

and

http://paizo.com/forums/dmtz3e26?Samurai-First-impressions#22

someone else can linkify it. It's a PITA on the phone.

So yes, an alternate fighter class could take weapon spec.?

Danm...i gotta re work my class.

Don't forget that at 9th level spells, basically anything you force to roll a Will save will most likely make it unless it rolls a 1.

Also, if you want to dig back into 3.5, there was a Harm, Greater and Harm, Mass spell. They were from Heroes of Horror, and did d12s for damage instead of 10 per caster level. :P

yeah, but greater harm is worse then harm standard.

You can play fighter/wizard which is the archetypical elven knight...or wait a sec wait a MAGUS! :)

Yeah, but i'm going more for Legolas, less...magus.

And i know, RANGER. BUT I DESPISE RANGER WITH A PASSION.

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Ishmell wrote:

I believe you just answered your own question.

No, I didn't... because if it's okay to heal your team by up to 250 points and deal that same amount to undead creatures, I can't find a reason why the opposite wouldn't be acceptable as an opposite spell.

Mechanically there is a HUGE difference between healing 250 points to 17-20 targets and dealing 250 DAMAGE to 17-20 (total damage 3250-5000 damage in ONE ROUND) targets, will negates. Yeah, I realize it's INSANELY overpowered against undead. But that is one relatively small group of enemies. Now imagine that reversed, extreme damage vs. all EXCEPT an relatively small group of group. Suddenly clerics prepare no other 9th lv spells.

Storm of Vengeance dealing 1d6 acid (no save), 10d6 lightning to 10 targets (save 1/2), and 5d6 Bludgeoning. Capping at 96, just above a THIRD of what mass harm would deal to about HALF as many targets.

Implosion deals 200 damage around to one target per round maxing at 10, fortitude negates. That's less than 1/10th the damage off the bat, and less then half after the full duration, IF you can keep the concentration all 10 rounds.
NOW A WIZARD SPELL! Divine spells, by the rules, deal less damage than Arcane.
Meteor Swarm, 4 touch attacks dealing 2d6 bludgeoning, no save(assume all targeting one)and -4 to all saves against 4 6d6 fire damage, save for half. A Max of 216 to one target, and i can't imagine how many enemies you could catch in a 40' radius. I doubt it would be too many more than what your harm could catch.
Now the highest damage combo I know. One 9th level spell AND five 7th.
Time Stop and 5 delayed fireball. 100d6 fire. Twice the damage (About the same damage on average), with 6 times as many spells.

To answer why there is no mass harm,Balance Reasons.

I believe you just answered your own question.

Seconded BUT you have a point. I can't think of a good "in universe" explanation, anybody?

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I saw in the Paizo Blog about all the racial stuff and wanted a reason to play something other than a Human. So i decided on an alternate class called the Elven Knight. Requires you to be an elf or half-elf. This felt to big to be an archetype because it replaces almost everything. And it's sorta made to be a switch hitter. Able to go from bow to two-weapon, to larger weapon.
HD: D10
BAB: Good
Skills: 4+Int per Level (Figured that was worth Med. Armor Prof.)
Fort: Bad
Ref: Good
Will: Bad
Weapons: Simple, Martial, and Elven Curve Blade.
Armor: Light, Bucklers

Bonus Combat Feats: 1st, 2nd and every even level.
Style Feat: Must be one of three. Weapon Finesse, Two-Weapon Fighting, or Point Blank Shot. Replaces Heavy Armor Proficiency, Shield Proficiency, and Tower Shield Proficiency. (I just like feats and this puts is on the same track as a human fighter. I don't THINK this is overpowered)
Elven Swiftness: +5 foot move speed, +1 Acrobatics. Levels 2,6,10,14,18. Replaces Bravery. (This is the Ability I'm most shaky on, it is exactly the flavor I WANT, but...)
Evasion: Lv. 3, becomes Improved Evasion at Lv. 11,replaces armor training 1 and 3. (Gets the abilities later than almost any class but I've considered moving them back to replace trainings 2 and 4)
Elven Arts: As Weapon training but may only select Light Blades (including Elven Curve blade) or Bows, Replacing Weapon Training 1 and 2. (Fixed this from Bows AND Light Blades AND Elven Curve Blades AND Longswords, but replaced EVERY weapon training.)

Still need replacements for Armor Training 2 and 4 (or 1 and 3), possibly Weapon Training 3 and 4, Armor Mastery, and Weapon Mastery.
ANY FEEDBACK IS BENEFICIAL!

Rapthorn2ndform wrote:

Alternate Classes...what does that really mean. What i am REALLY aiming at is this. Hypothetical Alternate Fighter Class.

Could this character take "fighter specific feats."
Are they TECHNICALLY a fighter?
Are they TECHNICALLY not a fighter?
I originally thought of this back during the UC play-test. When the Gunslinger was an alternate fighter class. When it was changed to it's own class, that problem was put to the back of my mind. Now I am trying to make an alternate fighter, and it's coming along (i'll post it later maybe), but i'm worried about it being overpowered because of weapon focus and specialization.
I'm in a Pickle. Any answers?

By RAW, only fighters are fighters (as well as certain more specific rules, such as the Magus, which can count as fighters by way of class abilities).

"An alternate class operates exactly as the base class can never take a level in it's associated class..."

I also read somewhere (For the life of me i cannot remember where) that a samurai or ninja could take cavalier or rogue archetypes, because they WERE those classes.

Alternate Classes...what does that really mean. What i am REALLY aiming at is this. Hypothetical Alternate Fighter Class.
Could this character take "fighter specific feats."
Are they TECHNICALLY a fighter?
Are they TECHNICALLY not a fighter?
I originally thought of this back during the UC play-test. When the Gunslinger was an alternate fighter class. When it was changed to it's own class, that problem was put to the back of my mind. Now I am trying to make an alternate fighter, and it's coming along (i'll post it later maybe), but i'm worried about it being overpowered because of weapon focus and specialization.
I'm in a Pickle. Any answers?

4 people marked this as a favorite.

I am the middle ground
I love the role-playing aspect, but why does that mean i can't pick feats and abilities that make sense.
I was called out as a "power-player" when i went to my group who had just started a new game, with a Human Barbarian with 20 Str, Power Attack and Furious Focus.
Some players think that in order to be a true "role-player", everything you pick MUST be utter cr*P.

The goblin monk in that group
str 12, dex 14, con 16, wis 16, int 14, cha 9

she says the stats don't matter as much, as long as she role-plays them, and yes she is an above average role-player.
BUT IN COMBAT, SHE IS DEAD WEIGHT.
I mean, there's a difference between playing a character you'd more enjoy role-playing then combat, and i'm gonna focus COMPLETELY on role-pay and FORGET combat.
And the glaring issue is SHE DOESN'T HAVE ANY USEFUL ROLE-PLAY SKILLS. She has acrobatics, linguistics, perception, stealth, and religion. Not bad choices but she has yet to use one.

And in This game, combat and role-pay are about 60-40.
I'm just sick of this idea that if i enjoy playing a semi-optimized character, i'm a "bad player"

I was being told this (by dm and a few players) when i played a 20 str druid who was spect for magic crafting, i was told this when i played a Paladin built for defense and in-combat healing, and now with my lv 1 barbarian.

That dm is going to regret kicking my lv 10 pali because he was "overpowered".
Now i've got a lv 10 fighter focused on damage. I've never built a character like that before...BECAUSE I WAS BEING NICE.

They are separate enchantment bonuses from different sources. They do not stack.

enhancement bonuses from different sources do not stack. Masterwork is a different source of an enhancement bonus than magic enhancement bonuses.

"These bonuses can be added to the weapon, stacking with existing weapon enhancement to a maximum of +5."

It never says anything about masterwork or magic, only that it stacks with enhancement bonuses. And the bonus from master work is, in fact, enhancement(the only non-magical enhancement bonus in the game to my knowledge)
Sorry, I enjoy playing devils advocate.

"These bonuses can be added to the weapon, stacking with existing weapon enhancement to a maximum of +5."

MW bonus is not an enchantment bonus. MW "goes away" as soon as the weapon is enchanted.

yes it is

"A masterwork weapon is a finely crafted version of a normal weapon. Wielding it provides a +1 enhancement bonus on attack rolls."

i agree that they don't stack, but i can't come up with a good reason why.
but that could be because it' 1:30 am

I'd say dervish dance fighter
so you also get wep spec and wep training

I'd say
Take away light armor and the ability to cast in armor
to give
Canny defense at first level

take away martial weapon proficiency
to give
Imp. unarmed strike at 1st level

take away the ability to spell strike with non-unarmed
to gain
Unarmed damage as a monk of 1/2 your level

Take away spell recall
to gain
bonus ac as a monk at 4h lv

take away medium armor
to gain
that tattoo?

Take away imp. spell recall
to gain...idk

and take away heavy armor
to give...not a clue

that is what i'd do

Think of it as a pit. No matter how many times you hurl yourself into the pit you certainly don't get any smarter.

Yes, but that pit didn't have teeth and try to chase you down