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Sunlord Thalachos

Quintain's page

Goblin Squad Member. Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber. 781 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists.


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I'm looking to play a goblin grenade thrower type. Does anyone have any advice on what type of build class combination would be best for optimization.

Any combination of rogue (including unchained) with archetypes and alchemist (with archetypes) including rogue and or alchemist variant multi-classing is permitted.

Grenade throwing shouldn't be restricted to just bombs, but also other alchemical weapons, potentially including holy water.


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Some of the problem with the application of absolute morality is the lack of a strict set of moral laws that can easily be referenced.

Here's an example:

Assassins are evil. Moreover, in order to become an assassin, the character must kill someone for no other reason than to become an assassin.

Now, here's the problem: who and what qualifies as "someone".

Back in the days of basic/1st/2nd edition D&D, the game was much more humanocentric, meaning there were two categories: Us (the playable races), and them (monsters).

You could kill orcs all day long and never qualify to be an assassin even if you wanted to -- they were monsters and their welfare was not a factor.

Segue forward 30ish years of gaming -- you now have a much more relative view of what is considered a "person" (playable race) to include anyone and everything under the sun.

Oddly enough, this allows a player to become an assassin much easier than before if the absolute morality of the prestige class is concerned.

It also makes it much easier to fall as a Paladin.


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Looking for suggestions on killing high CR undead that like to play in anti-magic field spells.

No idea is too ludicrous if it's legit.


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Plot twist:

What tactics would you use for a Lich Templated Dragon with the same AMF?


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Rennaivix,

Sorry for the thread necro, but do you know where this reference comes from (the channel energy/same class feature from multiple classes)?


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No one? I'm asking due to a question with Hero Lab -- that product has one ability overwriting the other.

Clarification needed.


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Alchemists with Ooze bombs (more specifically green slime) or alchemical arrows with green slime in them, would require the Copper dragon to dismiss the anti-magic field in order to burn off the slime, leaving him vulnerable to standard tactics.


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For bombs per day, how do these two abilities combine? Are they tracked separate or do they overlap in some way?


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It sounds like your party is expecting you to be the tank, but your class choices aren't really tank oriented.

The interceptor path is mainly a skirmisher build.

What I would do is self-buff with inertial armor (extended) and augment that as much as possible with whatever power points you have.

This will give you a decent AC for 12 hours a day, so you'll be quasi-ready for combat most of the time.

Until you get to the point where you are comfortable being self-buffed a good amount of time, or have some magical/psionic items that assist with ambushes, I'd splurge on some armor.


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Fourshadow wrote:

A creature with tremorsense is sensitive to vibrations in the ground and can automatically pinpoint the location of anything that is in contact with the ground.

I am pretty certain there is no miss chance with tremorsense.

I'm presuming that the OP is trying to hit an unseen/invisbile creature that he knows is there via tremorsense.

Even with tremorsense, you still get a 50% miss chance when attacking someone that is unseen when you target their square.

To answer the OP's questions:

Spring attack prevents attacks of opportunity from your target -- and you are attacking the creature in the square by "attacking the square", so that is your target with a 50% miss chance.

Your target in this scenario is the creature in the square, not the square itself.

Ergo, no attack of opportunity.


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Covent wrote:

I too am thinking of running a psionics only game. I currently was planning to just use ultimate psionics.

My concerns are as follows.

1.) Condition removal seems less available than with standard classes.

Only in the sense that spells providing condition removal are generally all or nothing (example: neutralize poison and the psionic equivalent Resist Toxin are caster level checks like dispel magic).

Covent wrote:


2.) Unless a vitalist is played healing seems sparse.

No, not really. All classes have access to healing via extra power known or expanded knowledge feats, what they lack is a easy method of applying that healing to someone other than themselves.

The Egoist, Tactician (Battle healer archetype), and Vitalist are all good healers.

Covent wrote:


3.) Crafting of Big Six items by players would not be possible without allowing crafting feats to use manifester level instead of caster level.

Does anyone have any experience with any of this?

The psionics/magic transparency rules gives the option for the psionic items to be the equivalent item creation feat. Obviously in more open rulesets with more supplements there aren't any parallels, however.


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If you want to truly frustrate your GMs plans, play a tactician. Battlefield control is king. It let's all the dps do their work -- and is also the rogues best friend.


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I play psionics all the time. What kind of questions do you have?


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As someone who plays Psionic characters in preference to arcane/divine casters almost exclusively when available, I would also like to point out that as with any 3pp supplement, there are abilities within each of those classes that aren't available elsewhere.

This is a huge contributor to the "psionics are overpowered" myth that is fairly prevalent with GMs that are ill-prepared do deal with them.

An example is the collective. This ability simply does not exist within any other class in Pathfinder.

It is a very versatile ability, but one thing that has to be pointed out is that a great many of the abilities of collective-having classes is limited to members of the collective. A good portion of the abilities cannot be used outside of that limited list of people.

Also, there are psionic powers who's descriptions don't exist in Pathfinder (currently as well). This often frustrates GMs and frustrated GMs often declare "psionics is overpowered" as a catch all for their dislike of things they don't know how to handle.


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Right, those are FAQ entries. Perhaps Sage Advice stuff may overlap with the domain of FAQ, but one of the things that I like about the latest book: Ultimate Intrigue was the advice section.

If that sort of idea were put into a blog, that would go along way toward pacifying some of the player-base when it comes to the level of communication between the players and Paizo.

FAQ is more of a "dictate from on high", where I see the tone of "Sage Advice" as more of a collaborative effort.


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After the ranged sneak attack and scry and fry thread in the rules forums. It is my belief that a better method for Paizo to communicate with their customer base regarding the game we are all playing and also engender more greater agreement between tables for both home games and Pathfinder society is in order:

Thus, I would make the suggestion that Paizo implement a "Sage Advice" type blog with a sub-forum for article discussion and use that as a way to communicate Rules as Intended advice to the player-base regarding things that don't require a "rules change type of FAQ".

Or if this already exists, please point me to it.

This would also allow for quick reference during game time in case situations like this come up. A blog would also allow for modification of the RAI advice at a later time should that be necessary.


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Pizza,

The opposed caster level check would be something I could see -- or a dispel mechanic allowing for lesser, and greater versions like dispel magic that doesn't actually dispel the blocking effect, but suspends it temporarily, long enough for the teleport to function once.

Duration would also be x amount of time until discharged.

Increasing scope to allow for passengers I could see as well. I like your idea.


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Berinor wrote:


Does this mean that (in your gut - I promise not to do a gotcha) there's a point at which concentric circles will say enough about where? And that that point is something that might legitimately happen during a single scrying? Or just that walking around enough will eventually give enough context to recognize unique landmarks, plants, or whatever?

There won't be any concentric circles, but a circle that moves, and if the subject say exits the building he is in and goes to a street intersection and you see that it is 10th and Main street and you recognize the background to be in New York City, you are good to go for a teleport under "viewed once" in that case.

This is rare, however, and demonstrably not what is meant by scry and fry.


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Quote:


If you remember, I said that the 10' may not give it to you. But if the person walks around that it can.

If you remember, I've said this as well. In many different posts. Before you joined the conversation, in fact.

Quote:


The part of the spell that shows you mechanically how it works says that the location must exist, but does not say you have to be able to walk there.

No one has claimed that you literally have to be able to walk there on two feet. You could use any mode of transportation you want, but you need to be able to get there in some fashion...you must know it's location or you end up somewhere else.

It's like saying you want to go to Miami by travelling through Europe. You can't get there from here.


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Quote:


Oh? And isn't the spell failing and you going to the wrong destination part of the familiarity test?

Thus, you are saying there is no separate location test before the familiarity test?
Wouldn't that be changing your mind, then, from when you insisted there was a separate test?

Again, the "familiarity test" as you call it is a compound test. If you break down the compound test to it's individual sub-tests logically, you test the first and and then the next in sequence (at the lower level), if the first sub-test of the compound test fails, the logic causes the entire test to fail and the remaining sub-tests aren't even tested.

There is no such thing as a multiple-condition simultaneous compound test.

You know this to be true. You have the education to know it, if what you are stating about your profession is true. You are being pedantic at best.

The results of this initial sub-test is covered under "False destination".

I've never said otherwise.

What I have said is that the idea of the Scry and Fry (teleporting based on the information given by scrying) will fail because you won't be frying your intended target. Ever.

It fails. Whether you move locations from point A to some random point in range that looks like the room your target is in is wholly immaterial. Focusing on whether the teleport doesn't happen or works but goes to a different location is sophistry.


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Berinor wrote:
Lorewalker wrote:
You must picture a place, that place must exist where and in what state you picture it existing in.
This sentence sounds like you agree with me. Am I misunderstanding?

No, you are misunderstanding him. What he is missing is that you also must know where the place is located as well.

He thinks scry gives you that because you can see 10' radius around where someone is standing.

and you can't. Because that is not a location, despite protestations to the contrary.


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[qutoe]
You must picture a place, that place must exist where and in what state you picture it existing in. That is what the test checks for.

And if you do not have a location of that place, then you don't get there...false destination at best, mishap at worse.

Personally, as a GM, I'd make it an auto-mishap.

Quote:


It only requires that the destination exists. Not that you get an address down to the T and can walk there from anywhere in the cosmos.

No, it also requires that you know where that destination is. Knowing that it exists does not give you it's location.

Quote:


You must have some clear idea of the location and layout of the destination.


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Quote:


So, then, you change your original view of how the spell works over to my view of how it works in regards to the familiarity test and location?

In that if the location fails the spell does not fail. Which you said it did just a bit ago. You instead get a result of 'false destination?

No, I don't change my original view at all, the spell failing is not reaching the intended destination of your teleport after using scry (at least that is how I see it).

That is what I have been saying all along. I don't care about the minutiae of whether you actually move locations or not, the tactic of teleporting to someone after using just scry and then teleporting results in you not getting to where you want to go and do what you wanted to do, because you don't have enough information.

In otherwords, it doesn't work.

I haven't changed my stance at all.


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Berinor wrote:
In my version of it, if there isn't a place matching your description (layout) in the general location you were picturing, that combination is a false destination. Hence, it's handled in the familiarity test. I would rather if they had spelled that out, since I imagine it's the principal cause of false destinations.

Most people completely ignore false destination, mistakenly believing that scry gave them the required information based on that single sentence.

As it is an easy method of travel, no one really wanted the game to be more difficult.

Path of least resistance, really.


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Quote:

Please show us where a separate test of location validity is written.

You must input a destination into the spell as part of the spell. A failed location reference is handled by the familiarity test.

And the familiarity test is a compound one. You input a destination, and knowledge of the layout. The required parameters of the spell.

Quote:


You must have some clear idea of the location and layout of the destination.

As how it works in programming languages, the first required condition in the if statement is location, that is tested first. If that fails, you go to jail and do not collect $200. Because at that point the entire test fails. You know this. If location fails, layout is superfluous.

You still teleport, but you won't get to where you want to go, there is no successfully reaching your desired destination under those conditions. You either get a "similar area" which is not your actual destination or you get a mishap.

See the chart under "False Destination".

Greater Teleport changes this. If you input an invalid destination, you teleport, but you arrive back where you started.


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Quote:


You must have some clear idea of the location and layout of the destination.

Must = required. location = address, layout = interior design.

If you don't know where your destination is, you can't get there.

Common sense.

If you teleport to a location you think exists but does not in actuality, that is no different. Teleport happens, but you don't get to your destination (this is an auto-failure of your scry and fry effort).

You'll teleport, yeah, but you won't be frying what you wanted to at the other end. It's a failure in all but name.

You will note that under those conditions, there is no chance of success using a false destination -- when you don't have an accurate location of your destination.

It is still not a single test, you just auto-jump to false destination regardless of whether you know the layout around the creature you are trying to fry.

If you don't know where he is, you'll go someplace, but it won't be where he is. Teleport tries to get you there, but can't, essentially.


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TriOmegaZero wrote:
Berinor wrote:
UI makes it clear that's also the stance of the (current) designers.
Much as 'you can not flurry with a single weapon' was the stance of the designers before. I don't expect there to be as big an outcry over this change however. It's quite a niche tactic.

No one said that this stance is not subject to change. We are only relating what it is now.

The game can and will change. Play it how you like.


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^ this would be someone that disagrees with your "it's proven".

Lorewalker, you have an interpetation of the text of teleport. However, many, including myself, Diego Rossi, and Berinor (above) disagree with that interpretation.

Who else also happens to disagree with that interpretation? The Game designers (in this thread) as well as the text of Ultimate Intrigue, which put forth the official interpretation of Paizo.

Yours is not that interpretation. All that UI did was give greater explanation to how both Scry and Teleport work, it did not change the text of either spell, yet they explicitly state that Scry does not fulfill all the criteria needed to Teleport.

You are not playing according to RAW if you hold to your interpretation.

It's as simple as that. "That's how we have always played it" is not sufficient to establish accurately -- as an example, I'll point to the somewhat recent clarification on how Rings of Invisibility as written by the CRB actually work.


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Quote:


You don't need to see the destination.

That is correct, but you need to know where the destination is or have a reliable description of the destination in some fashion that makes said destination unique in order to teleport reliably.

You will notice that said description has nothing to do with the layout.

This is basically what I call the Lifeline test.

If you have fallen and can't get up, but have called 911, can you direct the EMTs to where you are?

That is a location. Notice, no one cares whether the front door is locked, or where the furniture is located (aka layout) until they actually get there.

Up to that point, it's immaterial.

You need to know the location in both teleport and greater teleport. This is separate from knowing the layout (how the furniture is arranged).

These are distinct elements.

I just googled "layout of a building". What was the result -- maps of a building.

I also just googled "location of a building" and what were the result? Addresses.

The layout did not include an address and the address did not include a floorplan of the building.

They are separate things. You need them both, they are both tested separately, scry does not provide the address of the creature you are scrying. If you can see a creature in a building via scry, you get the layout of the room (basically a map of the room), what you do NOT get is the location of said building.

You must get the location using a different method -- scry does not do it.

Quote:


So, yet again it seems like you are saying you need to know where you are to teleport to a destination, even if that destination is very familiar, like your house. Because without knowing where you are, you can't actually 'program' the missile/teleport.

Having been in the U.S. Navy, I can tell you with absolute certainty, having floated in the middle of different oceans for at least a year and change of my life that you do *not* need to know your origination point in order to put a tomahawk missle through their front door. All you need is a location of where that front door is (gps with altitude is enough).

If you launch the missile, and the location of the door is out of range, it runs out of fuel and fails to reach it's target. It is like the 5th level teleport in this way.

This is also what teleport requires. Scry gives you absolutely none of this information. You cannot launch a tomahawk missle based on a television broadcast (scry). There isn't enough information to go on.


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Claxon wrote:

There is a spell that does that already, Wish.

Given that even greater teleport as a 7th level spell cannot circumvent the normal methods that block access to teleportation, I think reserving it to a 8/9th level spell is reasonable.

Basically a better version of greater teleport that can get around teleportation blocking magic.

Ok, maybe I wasn't clear enough. I don't want the spell to do the teleporting in and of itself.

What I want it to be able to do is allow teleport to be functional. Basically reinforce the connection to the astral plane when a teleport is used.

Think of it as similar conceptually to "scry and fry", with scry facilitating teleportation...but scrying doesn't do the actual teleporting.

It's a helper spell.


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Currently there are multiple methods of preventing a creature from trans-locating (teleport, dim-door, etc) such as spells, random radiation, various materials, etc.

Trans-location is described as travelling instantaneously through astral space from one location to the other.

Conceptually, could there be a spell that reinforces the already existing access to the astral plane so as to allow teleportation to succeed in places where it would othewise be denied?

If so, what spell level would you think it should sit at?

All opinions welcome.


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Quote:


If I, as a wizard with teleport, stand on top of a mountain and currently lost view a house somewhere in a valley below... I can teleport there merely because I can see it. I don't even need to know the plane I'm on.

Otherwise, according to your view, no one can teleport anywhere till they have discern location and have seen a place. Or have spent a very very long time with maps and geographical measuring tools.

Scrying would never be enough, in your view.

Line of sight (or rather relative direction and distance) are enough to teleport -- if you can see it (aka know the layout), you get a good chance of arriving on target. If relative direction and distance are "blind" (you can't see it), you'll need some other method of determining layout -- like clairvoyance, etc.

Scry doesn't even give this. You do not know, based on the description of the scry spell, the relative direction or distance to that creature.

Quote:


If the save fails, you can see and hear the subject and its surroundings (approximately 10 feet in all directions of the subject).

There is no reference to *where* the target is, just that he is "there" and the layout of where "there" is.

In order to teleport, you need to know the information that is provided in Discern Location and what the information provided by the scry spell.


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Lorewalker wrote:


Wrong.
Discern location gives you all you would need to walk to a place given your location in any plane of existence and a very expansive map.

You did not read everything that I wrote. I said, explicitly, that in order to Scry and Fry, no only do you need to use Discern Location to get the target's current location, but also use Scry on said creature to get the layout of the destination

Lorewalker wrote:


But teleporting does not require you to know anything that detailed. It only needs you to have seen a place. Having actually been there to view it is optional. But having physically viewed it gives you a much higher chance of...

More hand-waving. Everyone plays this way because they don't want to go through the tedium of making these qualifications all the time to the GM. That doesn't make it any less hand-waving.

It's become a "convenient travel method" for high level players. It doesn't make it any less wrong.


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Quote:


If you definition of 'location' in this case precludes scrying being able to give you it... then your definition is 100% incorrect. Because the spell says scrying gives you what you need.

No, it manifestly does not. That is the hand-waving. What that phrase does is give an example of a method for obtaining information enough to get the layout of a already known location where you think a creature is located -- there is no reference to getting the true location of the target from the scry spell by itself.

Once the location is known, and then use the scry spell on a creature that is at said location, then and only then do you get the "viewed once" category of success.

Since you are scrying a creature and not a location, there isn't even a guarantee that said creature is even at said location. If you cannot see some sort of evidence that confirms the creature is at the location you think it is, you don't teleport to the creature, you teleport somewhere else other than where the creature is.

Scrying does not in any way guarantee the 75% chance for a successful teleport. Paizo's designers, the Scrying spell, teleport spell and the text in Ultimate Intrigue have said as much.


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Quote:


But, the spell simply does not work that way. It does not separate layout and location.

Yes, it does separate layout and location. It's that simple sentence coupled with *and*. Those are a two-part test in any sort of programming languange anywhere.

Without location, you go nowhere, without layout, you go nowhere.

At best without location or without layout you get a false destination based on your description of your destination.


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Discern Location is a divination spell that gives the target's location:

Quote:


School divination; Level cleric 8, sorcerer/wizard 8
Casting Time 10 minutes
Components V, S, DF
Range unlimited
Target one creature or object
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance no

A discern location spell is among the most powerful means of locating creatures or objects. Nothing short of a mind blank spell or the direct intervention of a deity keeps you from learning the exact location of a single individual or object. Discern location circumvents normal means of protection from scrying or location. The spell reveals the name of the creature or object's location (place, name, business name, building name, or the like), community, county (or similar political division), country, continent, and the plane of existence where the target lies.

To find a creature with the spell, you must have seen the creature or have some item that once belonged to it. To find an object, you must have touched it at least once.

^ That is the Pathfinder definition of Location.

This is what is "a clear idea of the location".

Note that this is an 8th level spell, there is no sensor involved, it just gives the info. No saving throw, no spell resistance.

Note what this spell does not do: it doesn't reveal the layout of destination at all: what you have to do then in scry the target and then you get your 75% chance for success of viewed once.

This combination of spells is what is needed to "Scry and Fry".

It's not hard. It is just not as easy as just casting scry and then teleporting.


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Quote:


No part of knowing the location and destination gives a likelyhood of success for teleportation in your view of it. Your view is binary, success or no success. Which would move on to how well you know the layout of destination.

Incorrect, my interpretation is a two part test:

1) Know the location .. a clear idea of the location. This is a binary test. If you can't fulfill this, you are SOL. Your teleport fails altogether, or you get false destination because teleport tries to fulfill the spell to the best of it's ability.

2) Know the layout -- this is where you get the details of the destination so that your attempt to teleport is on target.

Everyone hand waves test #1 and is focusing on test #2 because of that one line example using scrying magic.

You have to pass both tests successfully in order successfully teleport.


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Lorewalker wrote:

Location can not mean, 'where in the world is that 5x5 ft square'. As scrying gives you all that you need to teleport somewhere and being blindfolded, lead to a room and being told to teleport across the room works.

The rules say scrying gives you all you need to know to teleport to a place. Thus, if your version of 'location' says that scrying can't give it to you... your version of 'location' is definitely wrong per RAW. As scrying definitely gives you all that you need to know, which includes need to know the location.

Location is a place. How the furniture is arranged, where people are in the room, is a layout of the place.
Those are not the same thing.

You don't teleport to a building. You teleport to a place in a building, of which you do not need to know where in the building that place is. Only to know enough about the place(having seen it, somehow) to teleport there.

See Discern Location. Scrying does not give you any sort of information a location that you can relate to anyone else.

That is definitively not the definition of "clear idea of the location" if you cannot relate that location other than "there".

Hell, just being there once doesn't even let you determine the plane of existence the room was in.

Sorry, doesn't qualify. No way, no how.


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Firewarrior44 wrote:
Doesn't a scrying sensor count as a sensory organ of the scryer i.e part of you is technically at that location and looking at the place you want to go?

Yes, that is true, however, if you have no idea where you are, you can't get back there, by teleport or otherwise.

You *have* to know where the sensor is located in some objective fashion before even being able to consider being able to teleport there.


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Lorewalker wrote:

If you are blindfolded, lead into a chamber miles away and then asked to teleport to the otherside of the room... could you?

You 'don't know your location' as per the definition many have been using here. But, you've seen it. You're actually there.

No, you couldn't. If you have no idea where you were, you do not have a clear idea of the destination. It's really that simple. The clear idea of the destination is tested well before the layout tests (studied carfully, etc) are even checked.

Having a clear idea of the destination is a wholly separate check on whether the teleport is even possible or not. The "studied carefully" is testing the layout of the destination.


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Having been in the armed services, I would say that a "clear idea" of a location is one I can program into a computer and send a tomahawk missle to.

"A bedroom" is insufficient information as is "the bedroom I'm looking at right now"...as well as "the 10' of area around Quintain".

The S&Fers think that just by scrying and through scrying alone somehow entitles them to the 25% chance.

All of them have yet to be able to describe the location of my basement as something other than "where my live video feed comes from".


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_Ozy_ wrote:

Yes, but you haven't told me what the effective difference is between specifying Champaign, IL vs. Quntain's House.

If I ask the right person, I can get directions to Champaign. If I ask the right person (you) I can get directions to Quntain's House.

If I don't ask directions, I don't know how to get to either place.

So, what is the difference for the spell to work in one case but not the other?

Because scry doesn't provide directions to my house, nor does it provide directions to Champaign, IL.

That is extra information you need to get using a method other than scry.

Gathering information via Diplomacy, or Discern Location work.

But if I'm not in my house, you can't use "Quintain" or even "the 10' radius around Quintain" as a location. Which is what everyone is trying to use.


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TOZ wrote:
Quintain wrote:
There are none, and the rooms are identical. The people are idenitcal. Sorry.
I fail to see your point. The spell worked according to the rules about being off target.

Again, no one is saying that you can't use these combination of spells, what is being said is that in order to use teleport, you need to "have a clear idea of the destination". Viewing me on a television does not provide that information.

Here's an example.

You are watching the nightly news: Do you know where that newscaster is located by just using the picture on your television.

Answer: no. This is what scry provides.

Now, if you know where your local TV station is located, you have a chance (25% to be exact, if you are looking at the live news cast for the first time) of being able to use teleport to get there.

Otherwise, sorry, won't work. You need more information than you have in order to succeed at scry and fry.

If you try to teleport without this detail of information, you are going to either a) failing to teleport altogether, or scrying and frying some poor innocent weatherman on national television.


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_Ozy_ wrote:

Then what would actually qualify for teleport?

Let's say I find out your house is in Champaign, IL. While I'm sure I could find out the actual directions to get there, I don't actually know them off the top of my head.

Does that mean I can't teleport to Champaign, IL? Does teleport only work for people who actually have memorized travel to every possible recognizable destination?

What would qualify to teleport to Champaign, IL? Just say, I teleport to the center of town (hey! that's a specific spot) in Champaign, IL. Now, having not been there previously, you would have a pretty good chance of arriving off-destination, but you'd be close -- in some town within range of the teleport.

If you know the name of an actual building in Champaign, you could use that, which would give you a better chance of arriving on target.

What you can't do is "teleport to Quintain's location" without knowing where I am (objectively speaking), and seeing me and the area 10' around me is not enough to narrow that down unless there is something truly significant that is able to identify said location objectively.

If you want to know what would qualify absolutely, check the spell Discern Location.


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TriOmegaZero wrote:
If I roll high enough on my Perception, I may recognize inconsistencies in the room decor from what I saw via the video feed.

There are none, and the rooms are identical. The people are idenitcal. Sorry.


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To put it another way, due to this ambiguity, you do not have a clear idea of your destination.

Which means your teleport can't even function. Scry does not provide this information.


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TriOmegaZero wrote:
Why would I do that? I'd just use the mental image of your room from the video and teleport there.

Ok, once you get here, how do you know you are actually in my house and not my twin brother's house?

Let's say you are a police man. I'm wanted for murder and have a bounty on my head. If you kill me, you are a hero. However, my brother is completely innocent and has a wife and two kids.

Based on your description, you have a 50/50 chance of being a hero or a murderer.


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TriOmegaZero:

I'm going to challenge you to find, on google maps "Quintain's house". Let's presume that I'm streaming a live video feed from my basement office while you do your search. You have 40 minutes (longest possible duration of a scry spell).

Go.


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TriOmegaZero wrote:
Quintain wrote:
"That room" is not a location. You have no idea where that destination is, as you cannot guide me there. Teleport (see the sentence above) requires this knowledge prior to even having the chance for success.

You don't have to have an idea of where it is. You need a mental picture of the location.

A room is absolutely a location. You don't need to know an address. It doesn't have to be named. But not knowing those things makes it less clear and more likely to fail.

You do need to know the address, at least after a fashion. The location needs to be identified.

You must have some clear idea of the location...

"That room" is not a clear idea of the location, anymore than "my basement" is a clear idea of a location to someone who has never been here, and me streaming a live video from my basement (scrying) doesn't help in this regard.

You are completely hand-waving the requirement of having a clear idea of the location.

If that is how you want to play it, go for it, but don't even think it's close to RAW.


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Quote:


Being able to do that still does not guarantee you arriving at the correct destination (if not greater teleport).

I was referring to using mundane methods of travel. If you know your destination, you know how to get there mundanely.

If you have no clear idea of the destination, you have no chance of getting there, teleport or otherwise.

If you have a clear idea of the destination...say a room in the Empire State Building (a location), I can scry a person I suspect is in the Empire State Buildng, and I still only have a 25% chance to arrive without incident.

The Teleport spell does not assist in the knowledge needed to successfully teleport, and Scry only provides the layout of the destination so you have even that slim chance of not having a teleport incident.

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