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Sunlord Thalachos

Quintain's page

Goblin Squad Member. Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber. 119 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists.


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I may be biased, but I think that ErrantPursuits description has the greatest amount of textual support.


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The question, I think, is does Improved Cleaving Finish interrupt the attack flow of Greater Cleave (must it be used immediately?) or do all the accumulated attacks from dropping foes come after Greater Cleave Finishes.

If you are surrounded by 9 guys, and you great cleave from opponent #1 (BBEG) into all his mooks, and drop all of the mooks, can you return to the BBEG and hit him 8 more times after all your cleaves are done...or do you hit him 8 more times after each mook is dropped.

Does it matter?

Note that Improved Cleaving Finish does not prevent you from hitting the same opponent twice (or more).


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Gauss wrote:

Quintain, you stated they must be adjacent to you (the attacker). That is not the same as "within reach". Adjacent does not equal "within reach".

Example: I have a Longspear, my reach is 10'. Adjacent is 5'. I can use Cleave/Great Cleave against foes 10' away but not 5' away because Cleave/Great Cleave specifies "within reach" not "adjacent to me"

My point was that you do not need to be adjacent to the target.

Ah, yes. You are correct. It is within reach not necessarily adjacent. I was concerned more with the pattern of attacks than the particulars of adjacent or within reach.


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Crom, sorry, but I'm in Iowa, not DFW. :)


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Gauss,

I can understand that interpretation. However, the relevant text...and generally How or group has always played it is how I described. The relevant text being: "If you hit, you can continue to make attacks against foes adjacent to the previous foe, so long as they are within your reach."

Granted it isn't a strict reading. But martial have few fun things anymore, so we give them this.

Edit: After thinking about your method, Gauss, I'm thinking that it's a bit convoluted. I'm not convinced that that is RAI.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I believe it works like this:

As a standard action (not a full attack), you can use cleave to attack each person that is adjacent to you and adjacent to the last guy you attacked. Cleaving finish allows you to transfer the cleave from the person you just attacked to another that's adjacent to you, but not necessarily adjacent to your last victim.

Positional example:

A .. B .. C
. .. X .. .
D .. E .. F

You can cleave from A to B to C, but not from A to D (not adjacent). However, if you happen to drop C, you can carry that cleave into D, E or F and continue cleaving at your highest base attack bonus.


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This question has come up on the Dreamscarred forums lately and I was looking for any developer/FAQs related to multi-armed characters or two-weapon fighting to see if the greater arms ability of the Aegis to wield two two-handed weapons supported by the normal pathfinder rules or was an exception.


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Does anyone have a link to Jason B's clarification on this FAQ?


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Quote:


Shining Pattern : Requires 8th level, on a successful disrupt pattern attack, all creatures within 15 ft must make a fort save or be blinded for 1 round. By RAW, stacks with all other insights such as Binding/Dislocating/Exploding pattern, and duration stacks with itself and Disrupting Strikes. Dreamscarred Press dropped the ball on this one as well.

Again, effects from the same source do not stack.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

A correction on your entry:

Quote:


Dislocating Pattern : Requires 8th level. -2 to basically all rolls when you successfully hit a creature with your ray. Furthermore it’s a untyped bonus, so it stacks with everything, including itself. No limit to usage and can only be healed by a DC 15 heal check, which enemies are unlikely to do in combat (and it would provoke AOOs if they did try it). Probably a major oversight by Dreamscarred Press since an infinitely stacking -2 penalty to all rolls, which works with Disrupting Strikes is ridiculous and your DM is not going to react well to it.

Dislocating pattern does not stack with itself, as any attacks after the first are considered to be from the same source.

Quote:


Extend Tattoo : Double duration of non-instantaneous tattoos for int mod times per day. This doesn’t make sense when Enhance tattoo vastly increases the duration due to the increased manifester level. Only take it if you are going to hit level 16 and want to take Eternal Tattoo. Looks like Dreamscarred Press made a mistake here...

I disagree -- these insights are no different than the feats that are used to modify psionic powers. The Enhance Tattoo + Extend Tattoo allows for something like a 24 hour duration on Inertial Armor @ level 12. Very useful.


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You should look at the 2nd edition D&D Spells and Magic for a spell point system that incorporates vancian memorization. Basically, you memorize your spells and if you have the spell memorized, it costs less than if you didn't, but you can still cast any spell known (or in your spellbooks).

The actual numbers are in the book.


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Krodjin wrote:

Strong Jaw?

That's a good question...

In most instances things that increase size don't stack... But FCT doesn't increase your size, it simply allows you to augment your Natural Attacks... But strong jaw lets you treat your natural attacks as if 2 size categories larger...

So the question becomes; do you apply the effects of Strong Jaw to your already augmented natural attacks, or do you work off the base damage???

I do not know.

If you are a monk with natural attacks and feral combat training, you apply your monk damage dice (if better than the normal natural attack damage) to your natural attacks, similar to using monk weapons. You can flurry with it, which may allow you to make more than the number of natural attacks that you are allotted based on the number of natural attacks you have vs the number of iteratives you get with flurry.

If you apply strong jaw, you increase your monk damage dice by 2 size increments.


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Lamontius wrote:
LazarX wrote:
Lamontius wrote:

someonnnnnne hasn't read wrath of the righteeeeeouuuuus...

You do understand the concept that one special UNIQUE case doesn't make it the norm?

You do understand what thread you are in

/Begin Philosophy

In a infinite multiverse, there is no such thing as unique.

/End Philosophy


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Quote:


You shape raw ectoplasm into a nonmagical, unattended
object of nonliving, organic matter. The volume of the item
created cannot exceed 1 cubic foot per manifester level. You
must succeed on an appropriate Craft skill check to make a
complex item.

As long as you have the requisite skill and make a successful check, yes.


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Fleetwood Coupe de'Ville wrote:

Can Vital Strike be taken by critters using natural weapons?

Mr. Peluda from Kingmaker would like to know.

Yes, although the same restrictions apply.


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The problem comes in when you can't perform a charge but have the ability to move normally. It is inconsistent to say that you can full attack while moving @double your movement (charge) but not when you can move normally on the same terrain.


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There are plenty of examples of pouncing being available. That's not really what I'm referring to:

I'm talking about being able to move and full attack at all times, not just at the end of a charge.


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I'd say it's workable if the turn system could be tweaked so that those who don't go first in the initiative round have the ability to counter attack when the moving-and-attacking martial closes much like an automatically readied action/attack of opportunity. So that way they have the ability to react to an attacker (outside of normal attacks of opportunity) if they have iterative attacks available.


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The main problem with being able to move and attack in the same round is inherent in the mechanics of the combat round itself.

There is no parity between combatants when the attacker can do a full move and full attack against an opponent that can't do anything until it's turn in the initiative round.

If everyone acted at the same time it would work...but its exceedingly clunky in a its-your-turn-to-act system like Pathfinder. In this system, initiative is king.


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INA is from the bestiary and any feat from the bestiary is (as far as I have heard) unavailable to players in Pathfinder Society Play.


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You should look at the strong jaw spell. It increases natural attacks by two size categories. The problem with using normal magical re-sizing spells is that you are a native outsider, so spells like enlarge won't work (humanoid only).


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If you look at the bestiary chart for natural weapons, bite and claws are primary weapons, thus, your claw/claw/bite routine are all at full BAB.

Secondary natural weapons are those like tentacles/tails etc.

OR if you ever use manufactured weapons in combination with your natural attacks, the claws or bite attacks become secondary attacks (-5 to attack w/ .5 STR bonus).


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Two weapon fighting is not applied to natural attacks, ever.

When manufactured weapons are used with natural attacks, the natural attacks shift from primary to secondary, which applies a -5 to the attack and only allows for .5 str bonus to damage.

Do not apply two weapon fighting to natural attacks in your modifications.


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I'm in the process of an archetype design for a gish class that merges a class like the magus (fighter/wizard) with the summoner that allows the character to merge themselves with their summoned monsters similar to how a synthesist can merge with his eidolons.

For those familiar with the Astral Construct from Dreamscarred Press, this is the specific summoned monster I'm concerned with.

My concerns are on which monster statistics should apply and how.

Any ideas?


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A combat maneuver is an attack resolved through an attack roll, the success of which is the only thing needed to cleave, so I would say yes.


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Defy Gravity is the psionic equivalent to levitate, so you can probably draw inspiration from the mythic levitate description in Mythic Adventures.

Time Hop is a bit more complicated as it (insofar as I'm aware) doesn't have an equivalent wizard/sorcerer spell.

Perhaps the Mythic Time Hop could be changed so that the rounds of apparent time that are spend under the effects of the spell can be used by the Psion instead of "The subject reappears in exactly the same orientation and condition as before. From the subject’s point of view, no time has passed at all.".

So, with the Mythic Version, the subject can move and perform actions similar to how the mechanics for Time Stop work.


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Claxon wrote:

I think it's pretty clear.

Quote:
Each natural attack that creature makes deals damage as if the creature were two sizes larger than it actually is

Why would it say each if they meant only one?

"Each" could mean multiple natural attacks of a specific type that was touched when the spell was cast. Not all natural attacks regardless of type.

Meaning if the character has 2 claws and two tentacles, you could virtually enlarge one set of claws or both tenacles, not all natural attacks.


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Thedmstrikes wrote:
I would have to disagree with the interpretation that all bite, claw, slam attacks are primary attacks. I will concede that they could all be primary attacks, but when used in conjunction with each other as part of a full attack, one of the set retains the designation of primary attack and the remainder become secondary attacks. Both are subject to the penalties of using more than one weapon, depending on feats you have that offset such things. Finally, the secondary attacks are at only half strength. Now, I can easily be wrong on a bit of detail here as it has been quite some time since I had a decent Pathfinder combat to sharpen my skills, so, please feel free to double check the details presented.

All natural attacks designated as primary attacks remain primary (which means full bab) even when used in conjunction with each other. The times that primary attacks are re-designated as secondary attacks is when they are used with Unarmed Strikes or manufactured weapons.

Examples: Slam/claw/claw/bite -- all primary
claw/claw/bite -- all primary
US/claw/bite -- US at full bab w/iteratives; claw/bite secondary
sword/claw/bite -- Sword at full bab w/ iteratives; claw/bite secondary*
* Note - in order to use natural attacks with manufactured weapons, you need to designate which limbs use which type of weapon. One limb cannot make a sword attack as well as a claw attack in the same round. -- The rule needing to designating a limb for the attack was extrapolated to the interpretation below.

Gator the Unread wrote:


It doesn't say anything about growing or converting appendages. Hence my question. It does say "gain", and I have seen arguments allowing tentacles to be grown. And I know what my GM says on the matter. I'm just not sure what the "official" answer is.

You could probably go over the DSP's site to ask the same question, but I can give you this: As a 1st level power, I doubt RAI (aka the official answer) was that you can grow limbs. A "slam attack" is simply a natural bludgeoning attack. In order to combine Claws of the Beast and Bite of the Wolf with Minor Metamorphosis, you would need to come up with a limb that you can use to make the slam attack. Just like if you were using another manufactured weapon.

I asked this very same question a while ago. DSP (Jeremy Smith) did not post an answer. What you see above is an extrapolation of all the rules regarding natural attacks that I could find.

By RAW, the metamorphosis powers aren't full on polymorph. As it states, the changes are only cosmetic.


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No, the description does not say that you grow a limb. It converts an existing appendage to allow for natural attacks.

I do not believe you can apply a slam attack to a tail, as a tail has a specific secondary attack type on it's limb -- the tail slap.

Claws and Bite are primary attacks, and a slam is a primary attack, so by RAW you'll need at least 3 limbs to use. All will be primary attacks made at full BAB.


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I think that having trapfinding as a trait is actually a good development for the rogue as a class.

As long as having the trapfinding trait qualifies as having the trapfinding class ability (and why shouldn't it), this opens up options for the rogue to gain archetypes that focus more on his non-trapfinding abilities.

Example: A rogue with the trapfinding trait, and the trapfinding class ability is able to take a archetype that replaces his trapfinding class ability with something else while retaining the trapfinding ability and allowing him to use that alongside his improved archetype abilities.

This is a buff for the rogue.


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Sadly, this is a already built character and tengu isn't my chosen race. I'll have to see if I can get the racial trait through some other means, but at least I've got place to start.


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That's what I thought.

Appreciated.


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I'm aware of feral combat training, and as I understand it, it allows for natural weapons to be used as unarmed strikes (and as part of a flurry), not the other way around. -- using the damage of the unarmed strike.

Essentially, I need for a way to have natural weapons qualify as unarmed strikes for purposes of qualifying for the style feats.


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I'm looking for a way to have natural attacks qualify for and be able to use the style feats without having to take improved unarmed strikes, since per RAW, all of the style feats require the use of unarmed strikes to execute the styles maneuvers.


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If you already have Psionics Unleashed, and Expanded, the Psioncis Augmented supplement is what covers everything new in the Psionics Ultimate book.

What you won't get in the augmented book is any incorporated errata (unless I'm mistaken) that changes anything in Unleashed/Expanded.


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Quintessentially has it right..it won't stack due to Impact being an magical size bonus of 1, and strong jaw being a magical size bonus of 2. Same bonus types don't stack.


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You can't apply the Impact special ability to unarmed strikes, as unarmed strikes are always considered to be light weapons.

I believe that if you use feral combat training to use a natural weapon to inflict the damage in question it will work, but stimple unarmed strikes (improved or otherwise) cannot by RAW.


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Elginn,

Sent you a PM to continue our discussion.

For the Paizo classes, do you guys see any balance concerns when combining a primary non-spellcaster with full BAB progression and a partial spellcaster with a full caster level insfar as feat/prestige class qualifications?


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Elghinn,

Question on your guidelines:

Quote:


Spell Progression: Multiclass archetypes with a spellcasting primary class continue to cast spells normally in that class. If the archetype’s primary class has a spellcasting ability that is two or more steps below that of the secondary class, the archetype’s spellcasting ability increases by one step. If the primary class has no spellcasting, depending upon the archetype, it may gain a 1/2 caster spell progression or a unique progression table of its own. Additionally, the multiclass archetype may gain the Diminished Spellcasting ability, retaining the primary’s class’s spell progression, but reducing the number of spells cast at each spell level per day, or the number of spells known of each spell level, depending upon the multiclass archetype. Unless noted otherwise, an archetype has a caster level equal to its archetype level.

I'm working on Dreamscarred Press' forums for Multi-class Archetypes for Psionic classes and it seems our first archetype has a bit of a scenario that is outside your guidelines.

The primary class has no actual "spells" able to be cast, but does have power points, combined with a class that has psionic power progression similar to that of the magus combined with the sneak attack ability of the rogue (cryptic-brutal disruptor archetype).

In this case, the primary class doesn't have spellcasting per se, but does have spellpoints for use with fueling things like scrolls (power stones).

How would you guys balance this out?


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Here's the DSP forum that answers this exact question:

http://dreamscarredpress.com/dragonfly/ForumsPro/viewtopic/t=1950/highlight =Resilience.html

The short answer is that he can blow his entire PP pool if he desires.

Jeremy Smith is the go-to guy for official DSP answers.


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Psicrystal + Psicrystal containment allows a second focus which you can use with your Psionic Armor ability. Thus, you can expend your normal focus for whatever you need, and use the psicrystal containment focus and keep your armor.


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There are probably enough afficionados of psionics to undertake this task (and get them published by DSP). Are there any sort of guidelines for balance that you go by, or will we need to work it out ourselves?


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Just a question, but has anyone looked at creating MCAs for Dreamscarred Press' Psionic Classes?


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Komoda wrote:

I would rule that for the most part types are rather obvious. I would never make it harder than a DC of 10. Therefore if the PC has a intelligence of 10 or higher, it is automatic.

In the mushroom example above, I find it misleading. You don't need to know it is a fungus, you only need to know it is a plant, just like you know a tree is a plant. You don't even need to know if it is a tree or bush.

I don't think there is a single plant on earth that I will ever mistake for an animal.

Basing the DC on CR also seems misleading to me. There is no reason to think a CR 50 Red Dragon is any harder to identify as a Dragon than a CR 5 Red Dragon.

Would a level 20 elf be harder to identify than a commoner 1?

You have my point down exactly. Since creature type (barring some corner cases of things that could at first glance be in multiple categories) is nearly obvious...but still not covered by the rules.

One doesn't need to be able to differentiate between a Demon, Devil, Daemon or Daemodand to tell it's an outsider.


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Perhaps a FAQ is in order?


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Black Raven,

That's an interesting observation - having the skill and being able to make the check pretty much ensures that they are able to narrow down which type it is.

So that would lead me to believe that creature type is far easier, logically, to identify than creature specifics.

Rynjin,

Assuming that I know what mushrooms are, I still can't identify a morel from a toadstool.

This pretty much mimics real life for me. I know what a mushroom is, I can't identify the specifics of each unique plant.


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So, because you don't know what the specific name of said mushroom means you can't tell its a fungus?

While identifying a creature will definitely lead to knowing the type, it would seem that being able to identify the creature type is not so difficult in some instances as knowing the identity of the creature itself.

My suggestion would be a DC of 10 with a -5 modifier for common creatures, adding a +5 for each rarity category above common.


2 people marked this as FAQ candidate.
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See subject: The question is not to specifically identify the creature or what it is, but the creatures type, such as humanoid instead of goblin.

The Knowledge skill states that to Identify a monster's abilities and weaknesses is a DC of 10 + Monster CR with differences based on rarity.

But a creature type -- such as undead or native outsider as compared to lich or tiefling is a much more basic question.

Is that check made against the base CR of the creature (modified by rarity), or something else?


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As of right now, the number of attacks that the Aberrant has is limited by the number of natural attack customizations he can take.

However, a certain amount of logic should be engaged so as to prevent a ridiculous amount of attacks to be done by a single character.


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No, great, it's a start. Thanks.

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