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Cayden Cailean

Protoman's page

Goblin Squad Member. FullStar Pathfinder Society GM. 907 posts (910 including aliases). 1 review. No lists. No wishlists. 7 Pathfinder Society characters.


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Yay pyros!

On that note: I got some questions I'd need other folks' opinions on:

My pyro just hit level 6 in PFS and I'm wanting to pick up Flame Jet.

Playtest Document wrote:

You shoot a burst of flame behind you as a standard action,
propelling you up to 60 feet in a straight line, including into the
air (any movement upward costs double). If you end your turn
mid-air, you begin falling on your next turn unless you use flame
jet again.
  • Obviously if the pyro takes a move action to move 30 ft forward and then takes a standard action to flame jet straight up 30 ft, he ends his turn in mid-air, and doesn't fall until his next turn where he gets to use flame jet to avoid falling.
    BUT, what if he uses the flame jet standard action first, and move action to draw a weapon or something afterwards? After the flame jet, he hasn't ended his turn yet as he still has an action left, does he hang in the air or drop down like a rock? If it's the latter, can one simply flame jet up, declare turn over (and give up other actions) and stay in the air?
  • Flame Jet just says the pyro is propelled up to 60 feet in a straight line. That's obviously more limiting than flight which allows one to turn or maneuver in general. However flight involves actual movement with a fly speed and flame jet doesn't. Does flame jet simply propel the pyro from point A to point B with no regards to encumbrance/load? I'm wondering if I can carry others on my back or in my arms and simply propel us 60 feet horizontally or 30 feet upwards. If I can, then the previous question of whether I drop down after flame jetting as my first action becomes DOUBLY important!

Ross Byers wrote:
Protoman wrote:
And unfortunatly, I haven't seen Jekyll.
It's on Netflix!

Not in Canada! Haha lame excuse for this day and age I know, but I'll have to look into it after this weekend. Still catching up on Penny Dreadful and planning on watching "period" movies for ideas for an Atomic Robo RPG game.

Dave Gross wrote:

Thanks for the kind words, Protoman. I'll just mention, all casual like, that it appears the reviews page is now open.

I take the opposite of offense from comparisons to Moffat's work, although I'm more a fan of Jekyll than of Who. You have seen Jekyll, haven't you?

After the website ATE the first attempt. I put up a more elaborated review up!

And unfortunatly, I haven't seen Jekyll.

Oh good. People have started reading it so I can feel safe talking about it.

Totally loved the story. Varian, Radovan, and Arnisant once again sticking together the whole time was nice (besides a brief trip outside outside the Material Plane). Varian's ancestry/magic handicap revelation was pretty awesome to learn. I'm not sold on the romance though; it was no Azra-Radovan slow build or Varian's pining for the forbidden princess. The character herself was fine, reminded me a lot of the Calistrian inquisitor, but a lot of times felt like Moffat's Doctor Who with the sassy girl companion "love interest" story lines. (Sorry Dave for the comparison!)

But everything else? HOT DAMN! G+& d$&n orcs! Badass grey maidens! Happy birthday, Varian! Shoanti druid lady was fantastic! Brothers of the Seal seemed random but nice lil Kaer Maga flavour. Banner-fighting thief/mage was interesting and wouldn't mind seeing/learning more of her. The epilogue between the boys was sweet and awwww-worthy.

I don't know if it's the last adventure with the boys (I sure as hell hope not) but Lord of Runes would be a nice way to do it.

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Earl Grey wrote:
lemeres wrote:
B.) The difference between a bow and long bow is 1 average damage. So this is not much for making you a 'more efficient ranged attack', and not really worth the loss of flavor (long bows are weapons of war, short bows are easier to master weapons of hunting and such)

In my opinion range is quite important too and shortbow lacks in that.

Range isn't that big a deal when sneak attack only works within 30 feet normally. More with magic but well within shortbow range.

Diminuendo wrote:
Jason Nelson doesn't really state a ruling one way or another; he outlines the different interpritations and his preference of the two, even stating thast it is his opinion. Hardly a Dev ruling.

He does a few lines down from the previous linked post, here.

Jason Nelson wrote:
Quandary wrote:
So I take it that MV/MM aren't intended to allow using Dervish Dance with any 1-handable Heavy Blade?
That is correct.

For a summary of most of the mauler talk:

Mark Seifter wrote the archetype and clarified it's meant to use the polymorph rules.

Mark Seifter wrote:
Normal is shape-changing effects, polymorph subschool section. You get nothing for going from Small to Medium. +7 at level 3. That effect should have also said it was a polymorph effect. And missing descriptors are a pet peeve of mine, I'm so ashamed!

He forgot to include mentioning polymorphing rules because he assumes nothing but monster creation uses the monster advancement table Ravingdork is referencing.

For Ravingdork and anyone else wanting to use the monster advancement, Mark basically went,
"It's your game, do whatever.".

Mark Seifter wrote:
I have always been in favor of gaming groups getting together and deciding to play however they like best, no matter what that may be and regardless of what the exact ruling may be. Heck, give them even more Strength if your group likes. This is the General Discussion forum and not the Rules Forum, after all.

For PFS, use polymorphing rules as that's what's clarified by the developer, and won't cause stupidly strong familiars showing up in the table that would get arguments and dice thrown at everyone.

As of now with the way the archetype is written without errata: No. Heavy shield is the worst thing to use with shield champion if you want to take advantage of all your abilities.

I posted explanations in this thread.

Basically, with the way shield champion is written, there's nothing allowing one to unstrap a shield faster than the normal move action, so one can't unstrap and flurry throw it as that's a full round action. You get the shield back at the END of your turn, which by definition means you don't get anymore actions, even free actions unless you can suddenly do it outside your turn on other people's (you can't, except for speaking a few words), so no strapping it back on. Thankfully still got the AC bonus from level 4, but that'll hardly cut it at higher levels (though AC would be as good as a regular brawler I guess).

Currently the best item to use is a light throwing quickdraw shield. Light quickdraw shield in order to strap the shield back on as a free action if you got the Quick Draw feat (hint: get Quick Draw as regular feat early. Can chuck bunch of knives at early levels or several shields at higher levels). Throwing shield in order to benefit from the free action unstrap feature in order to be able to throw tje shield. Sure that would make it an exotic weapon, however you're throwing it as part of the Throw Shield class feature which is basing your damage from your shield bash damage, also if you keep the regular 10 ft range increment, you can argue you're treating it as a normal martial weapon/shield.

If you're worried about the damage, at level 5 you get close weapon mastery, so any shield damage (or other close weapon group weapons) becomes 1d6 and will increase later, so it doesn't matter later on the original damage die of the weapon you're using.
Light shield does have the disadvantage that you can't benefit from two-hand Power Attack damage bonus, but small price to pay in order to benefit from all of the shield champion's features.

EDIT: Gah ninja'd by DM_Blake cause I typed too much lol

Turin the Mad wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
I don't see any prerequisites for Spell Penetration?

*brainfarts* Whew, stinky.

You're right. Schweet. That will make the published version interesting to read. Mayhap a note to that effect? Or have the PFS kineticists been taking the feat?

Kineticists with fire/lightning/cold blasts probably do in PFS. But I think by level 7 most simply plan to Expanded Element and pick up a non-touch AC blast and not worry about SR or energy resistance.

I like that the occultist looks rather portly.

It ought to be two move actions: One to unstow/draw it from your back/shoulders and then it can be used as a weapon with no AC bonus; one to strap it on in order to benefit from the AC bonus.

If one has the Quick Draw feat, one could argue that it's now a free action to draw it from your back, like any other weapon because a shield is a weapon.

If one has a light quickdraw shield (APG) and the Quick Draw feat, one can ready/don the shield as a free action.

So if Wisdom of the Flesh doesn't change a skill's original ability-score type, does that mean for Oracle's Lore Mystery's Lorekeeper abilty

Lore Keeper (Ex): Instead of encyclopedic knowledge, you learn most of your information through tales, songs, and poems. You may use your Charisma modifier instead of your Intelligence modifier on all Knowledge checks.

A circlet of persuasion won't suddenly start working for all knowledge checks, right?


Circlet of Persuasion

This delicately engraved silver headband grants its wearer a +3 competence bonus on Charisma-based checks.

Man I hope that's the case. I avoided picking up Lorekeeper for my lore oracle because I was afraid Focused Trance wouldn't work on knowledge skills anymore.

I have found the the Improved Shield Bash to be more situational now that Pummeling Style exists and could be argued for it's use via Martial Flexibility for early levels.

Before you can afford Brawling armor or if you don't have the Fame yet, when it comes to special material damage reduction (such as with low CR demons, wererats, etc) it's probably better to use your assortment of shields as the unarmed strikes at that point are maybe only a tad better even with Pummeling by then depending on the DR value. Plus it's a prereq for Shield Slam and Shield Master, which makes just as worth picking up as Combat Expertise.

I suggest just having a baseline of prereq feats for martial flexibility and an assortment of shields will keep you versatile and having fun with no issues.

My PFS Build:

Stavian Rogiers (Yes I went there)
Str 18 (16+2 racial)
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 12
Wis 10
Cha 8

Shield-Trained -- Obvious reasons. It sucks to be CG instead of LG, but Liberty's Edge missions
Highlander -- I wanted Stealth because I'm in light armor and wanted to be commando-esque. Might as well take advantage of it and keep up with the scouts.

Skills: I maxed out diplomacy and perform (oratory)I picked up Eagle Knight vanity for diplomacy as a class skill. I plan on picking up the Eagle Knight Captain vanity for two reasons: Refer to myself as Captain Andoran, instead of Corporal, and get perform (oratory) as a class skill and have it maxed along with diplomacy (it proves pretty useful for Liberty's Edge) and picked up Tome of Epics from ACG for a +2 bonus.

1 Class Bonus) Improved Unarmed Strike
1 Human Bonus) Improved Shield Bash. I bought a cold iron and silver light throwing quickdraw shields early on as those can be common DR types found in low tiers.
1) Quick Draw -- It was totally worth it to quickly stowing my quickdraw shield away to do acrobatics, climb, or swim checks and drawing it back on to my arm immediately afterwards (the masterwork light throwing quickdraw shields still suffer a -1 armor check penalty). Picking up heavy shields in scenarios was useful too for the AC bonus.
2 Class Bonus) Pummeling Style -- Level 2 is when you get flurry and qualify. Better to pick it up early. When you get higher levels and satisfy more prereqs, you'd want to get better feats with your limited feat slots.
3) Combat Expertise -- Qualify for awesome Improved Maneuver feats with Martial Flexibility. At low tiers, the CMD of humanoids is pretty pitiful when compared to the +2 bonus to CMB the Improved Maneuver feats grant.
5 Class Bonus) Shield Focus -- Picked it up as a feat tax to qualify the bonus Greater Shield Focus feat at level 9. Plus the +1 to my shield bonus doesn't hurt.
5) Power Attack -- It's good to have even without being able to two-hand a heavy shield. Still provides good damage for pummeling style or shield bash flurries.

I'm only level 6, so I plan on taking these future feats...
7) Shield Slam. As of now I only qualify for it when flurrying.
8 Class Bonus) Pummeling Charge -- Mmmmmm sweet pounce punches.
9 Class Bonus) Greater Shield Bonus
9) Two-Weapon Fighting -- Yes flurry sorta grants it. But I want it so Shield Slam and Shield Master will apply all the time like with AoOs, charges, immediate action attacks for whatever reason.
11 Class Bonus) Shield Master -- Will be so sweeeet.

My Dexterity wasn't the best, so I didn't feel the need for mithral chain. Instead I picked up darkleaf cloth lamellar armor (rather than leather). Cheaper than mithral, one less max Dex bonus, but don't gotta worry as much when fighting shocking grasp magus or rust mosnters lol.
Got than enchanted as +1, then +1 brawling as my first major investments when my Fame allowed it.
3 masterwork light throwing quickdraw shields. Cold iron, silver, and adamantine. Got the adamantine shield enchanted as armor, and will be enchanting it as weapon soon and getting the impervious (+3000 gp) weapon quality to keep it protected. Hardness 20-30 isn't enough for some stuff even PFS throws at characters' equipment. With shields, I'm cool with throwing the spares with flurry and keeping one shield on my person to keep benefiting from the AC bonus. Might not be thematic, but until errata comes out, gonna try and keep my butt protected. Died once from a critical scorching ray + 2 non crits. Gotta be careful.

Asteldian Caliskan wrote:
Interesting. Reading the ability, it states you can throw a medim or light shield as a normal thrown weapon with a range increment of 10 feet or the shields range increment. Has there been an official ruling on this? It suggests to me that if this allows you to throw a Throwing Shield without penalty, then there is no reason why it cannot be thrown at the increased range without the penalty as it is still part of the same ability.

The "medium shield" part everyone assumes to be a typo for "heavy shield". I advise for the lesser range increment in order to get away from table variation that inevitably happens for PFS; if one goes with the "weaker" interpretation, no one really notices and gets their hackles up then raise a hissy fit.

Another question, I assume the answer is no, but with the Shield Trained Trait making a Heavy Shield a light weapon, with Throwing and Quickdraw, is it then also a Free Action to Don the weapon again or is that just a Quickdraw Shield benefit?

That's just with the quickdraw shield benefit which only comes in the "light shield" flavor, rather than "light weapon".


I think I am leaning towards melee focused with shield as back up, though being a full time shielder is tempting - I guess if I were to make the Shield my full time weapon I would make use of Pummelling Style as a flexible feat for my fist on occassions it is required.

My only concern with having the shield as a back up, is that in reality it won't really ever be used - I mean why bother throwing a shield even for DR mobs when I can just Pummel them anyway?

I see the case as with Captain America in the Winter Soldier and Avengers 2 movies (not First Avenger and Avengers 1 as he was still basically WWII gun friendly at that point) where he excels at unarmed combat and uses the shield for extra oomph! as can be emphasized with Shield Slam feat. Also the ranged maneuvers feature of Throw Shield is nothing to scoff at. Nothing in the ability specifically states you use your Dexterity for your CMB instead of Strength, so you're potentially more accurate bull rushing/dirty tricking/disarming/repositioning/or tripping someone at ranged than simply hitting AC (depending on target's CMD of course). Some folks might state that it's a ranged attack so Dex to CMD, they would typically cite the Weapon Finesse + CMB FAQ which specifically says you can use Dexterity implying it's an option, but the Throw Shield ability specifically states she makes the CMB check as if the champion were making a melee shield bash attack which implies just as strongly that it uses Strength for the CMB.

Also for DR mobs, pummeling strike only works against one enemy at a time for a full-round action. If you ever do want to split up attacks or use maneuvers or a mix of attacks+maneuvers (Trip+Attack with +4 bonus because target is prone is pretty awesome), Pummeling ain't the best option.

A Cestus I assume would work with Pummelling Strike as you would be punching and the Feat does not specifically state unarmed strike, however I guess the Brawler enchant would not work. A shame rally because I would like to avoid the ovepriced Amulet of the Mighty Fist.

Pummeling Style got FAQ'd and will be errata'd to only work with unarmed strikes. Stick with the brawling armor bonus. It's as good as a +2 amulet of mighty fists and way cheaper. It ALSO stacks with the amulet of mighty fists so when you could have afforded a +3 amulet, a brawling armor and +1 amulet is just as good and way more inexpensive.


Kalindlara wrote:
Protoman wrote:
Ms. Pleiades wrote:
Andrew Christian wrote:
So you are going to forgo then entire campaign over a single race option?.
In some stories, the character actually matters to people, so yes.
If that's actually the case, coulda just made any character with one of the core races and say they got some tiefling blood and describe a visible nonmechanical defect.
That would be "reskinning", which is illegal with extreme prejudice in Pathfinder Society. ^_^


Ok just say they got fiendish blood and no visible defects.

I don't really see what's weak about the telekineticist. As decent damage and wild talent options as anyone else. Though not really in theme with Avatar: The Last Airbender or Legend of Korra.

But assuming you stick with it, some comments about your build! Warning, two versions: The unarmed martial artist, and the version that will be throwing out comments that would most likely say take out the flavorful choices.

Unarmed Version
Stats? Are those with 20 point buy? They look odd. What did they look like at level 1 before the level 4 boost? You want more Strength if you actually wanna hurt or hit anything, can suffer less Con (avoid Burn like the dickens!)

Your feats and talents need a load of work. It looks like you wanna be able to switch between melee and ranged, but your choices lack focus.

Get brawling armor so your unarmed kinetic fists are more accurate and delivers more of a punch.

Not Unarmed Version

Your stats should have afforded you a 16 Dex. Go for it.

You got kinetic blade AND fist. Pick one. Hint: Don't pick kinetic fist. It sucks for damage unless you got a really great strength modifier and even then you'd wanna benefit from LOTS of attacks such as from several natural attacks. Kinetic blade still uses your Con mod for damage.

Average BAB class should not be taking TWF without a lot of class support to make it more accurate (such as monk's flurry of blows). Your kinetic blasts/blade/fist are ALL against regular AC. Even if you do decide to stick with unarmed strikes and kinetic fist, you're not hitting ANYTHING.

But seriously. Don't take kinetic fist. Get kinetic blade and aether up some brass knuckles or a club or something if you're wanting the unarmed/staff feel.

Do you want to make ranged attacks? You want precise shot. Folks with touch attack blasts also want precise shot. Regular AC targetting blast like TKers definitely want it.

Feats should look like:

1) Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot
3) Weapon Finesse

I'm a bit confused on the Burn and how it inproves your Kinetic Blast and by how much. Can someone explain that to me.

Feel the burn +1 at level 3 means if you have 1 burn point (and suffering nonlethal damage equal to your character level), you'd geta +1 bonus to attack and damage rolls with your blasts and blade. NOT to fist as it only accounts for the number of dice (1/3 your blast dice is not a lot no matter what level you are) and none of the blast modifiers. If you have more burn at level 3-5, you get more nonlethal damage, but no other bonuses.

At level 6, you get Feel the Burn +2; that means if you have 2 burn points, you get a total bonus of +2 to blast/blade/whip attack and damage rolls. And so on and so on every 3 levels, the bonus increases by +1.

When the book comes out and final version is revealed, there's hopefully a martial artist archetype that you'll find better for your build. Or simply even a better kinetic fist.


Ms. Pleiades wrote:
Andrew Christian wrote:
So you are going to forgo then entire campaign over a single race option?.
In some stories, the character actually matters to people, so yes.

If that's actually the case, coulda just made any character with one of the core races and say they got some tiefling blood and describe a visible nonmechanical defect.

Asteldian Caliskan wrote:

Thanks for the advice, I was mainly looking at focusing on shield simply to keep benefits suchas weapon focus etc. At all times, but you make a great point about using flexibilty feats for that.

I was somewhat in two minds regarding whether to focus on a dedicated shield thrower or use the range aspect as a side thing and focus on melee as primary. Sounds like using it as a secondary means of attack would be better.
How much is the brawler armor, is it an enchant like a +1 or specific armor?
Also, doesn't the Throwing add on to shields require exotic proficiency?

The brawling enchant is a +1 that only works on light armor. Bracers of armor doesn't count.

If you use the specific stats of throwing shield 1d6 and 20 ft range increment to make a normal ranged attack, sure it'd be exotic. As a melee attack for bashing, it'd still be a martial weapon (simple with Shield-Trained). We only want it for the free action unstrap feature. At level 3, you'll be relying on Shield Champion's throw shield ability, which has a a range increment of 10 feet or the shield's range increment (Probably shouldn't use that second part, would probably count as exotic throwing shield attack if using the throwing shield's range increment) whichever is greater. The thrown shield deals the same damage as a shield bash, which would scale with Close Weapon Mastery (at level 5 you'd be doing d6 and at level 8 it'd be d8).

Since the class feature is what's allowing one to throw a shield normally, and we can only assume it doesn't change proficiency from the normal melee weapon feature, you probably don't have to worry about the Throwing Shield exotic weapon when you're using the Shield Champion's Throw Shield Ability which only cared about the proficiency of the shield as a melee weapon.

If I was to ever build blind character in PFS, I'd probably do a character with the Cave domain and get tremorsense at level 6. Then walk around with a blindfold lol.

Asteldian Caliskan wrote:

1) I haven't seen any official errata's for the Shield Champ, am I to assume that currently in PFS I need to take the trait to become proficient with shields as a weapon?

Also, I assume we still lose the AC bonus from class progression when using the shield?

That is correct. Being CN, CG, or LN in order to worship Gorum and taking the Shield-Trained trait is currently the most efficient way of being proficient with shields as martial weapons. Keep in mind that the trait causes you to not be able to two-hand the shield for extra damage from 1.5x Strength or Power Attack since it make you treat the heavy shield as a light weapon.

There's (most likely) gonna be some folks here that'll tell you to ignore ALL of that for PFS (typically folks who endlessly rants about the ACG and the so-far lack of errata to have come out and soapboxes that Paizo is screwing over folks). Ignore them. They're basically telling to cheat in PFS and that ain't cool.

2) If I want to make use of the shield throwing aspect, in order to keep the AC bonus from the shield I will need Quickdraw Feat + Quickdraw light shield? I cannot do it with a Heavy shield or a Throwing Shield?

Almost correct. My current Captain Andoran build in PFS uses a light adamantine throwing quickdraw. You want the throwing (+50 gp) quality in the shield simply to unstrap the shield as a free action so you can throw it as a full-round flurry. The light quickdraw shield alone would have allowed you to strap the shield back on as a free action and to draw/stow it on back or wherever as a free action.

Another thing is that it's currently written that you'd get the shield back at the END of your turn. End of your turn is typically when you don't do any more actions, so that'd mean you won't have the opportunity to do the free action to strap the shield back on. I MIGHT be wrong on that, but to not risk it, I keep three light throwing quickdraw shields (cold iron, silver, and adamantine) on me so I'm always actually still have a shield strapped on as I'm also chucking shields left and right. Hopefully there's errata to clarify that (and other things of course).


So, those are the opening questions, now when it comes to the build,

Traits - Shield Trained, Shield Bearer (if PFS legal)

Feats -
1) Improved Shield Bash (maybe, until I get to the point of enhancing the shields armor, the AC is not that important, heck, Dodge would be better)
2) Weapon Focus
3) Power Attack
5) Weapon Specialisation & ?

That's really just from quickly throwing some ideas down, I am very much open to suggestion. Likely a Style Feat will get added somewhere, I have to admit I am an AC junky, so the idea of Crane Style in there is tempting, though the -2 to hit along with Flurry may be painful.

From current experience, I'm gonna vote the shield use as a defensive tactic AND vs DR/adamantine or hardness AND primary ranged weapon at level 5 onwards. Being stuck with shield-trained trait, your melee shield use isn't gonna any more effective against things that have DR/hardness due to lack of benefits from two-handing the shield for extra damage.

Instead, focus on unarmed strikes: Brawling armor enchant ASAP. Pummeling Style with level 2 bonus feat and Pummeling Charge with level 8 bonus feat. Can have ways to defeat DR/hardness with unarmed strikes when a cold iron or silver or adamantine shields aren't gonna cut it. I have all three and encountered a huge fire elemental with DR/- recently; Pummeling Style allowed me to do the some of the most damage per turn and bring it down simply by punching. Pummeling Charge is terrific for pounce-like effects, and short of eidolons or wild-shaping, you'd get it earlier than most martial builds.

Weapon Focus and Specialization? I personally vote those to be activated with martial flexibility when not bothering with maneuvers in particular fights. The Brawling enchant is basically as good as those feats but it's undeniable they do help out a lot if all you wanna do is hit something.


Another thing I would be helpful is people's suggestions of what kind of Feats I should have 'at the ready' for taking advantage of the ability to gain temporary Feats - So that I can create a kind of Cheat Sheet of preprepared Feats great for situational use (e.g. Improved Trip etc. Blind Fight, is there a Feat that lets you ignore difficult terrain?). Basically anything nifty that could be great in some unlikely situation.

Pick up Combat Expertise at level 1. Also, it might help to be human for extra bonus feat at level 1. With Combat Expertise, can use maneuvers whenever you'd like. In low levels, humanoid targets in PFS typically have a low CMD (especially spellcasters) and a lot of times easier to be tripped or disarmed. At higher levels, you can use martial flexibility as a swift action and that can be taken advantage of for more versatility. Blind-Fight is useful as a temporary feat. Others are: Weapon Focus/Specialization (unarmed or shield depending on your situation), Improved Maneuevers, Deadly Aim, Dragon Style to charge past allies and charge/withdraw/run on difficult terrain (charge past obstacles, then swift action switch to Pummeling Charge would be a decent tactic).

Pick up Quick Draw by level 5 at the latest in order to benefit from your shield tossing.

If you ever get Shield Master feat (be sure to pick up Shield Slam on your own to qualify for it. TWF also if you wanna be benefiting from Shield Master ALL time besides when flurrying), shield bashing would probably be the best main tactic, but that's practically at the end of PFS career for the character. Pummeling Style/Charge and focusing on unarmed strikes and the versatility of maneuvers can keep you having fun with your character a lot longer.

IF you do stick with focusing on Shields, definitely pick up the Ray Shield feat first chance you get. Also invest in an adamantine shield with the Impervious weapon enchantment. As I've learned recently, getting critted by rays (scorching ray in my case) REALLY suck. Either as a permanent feat or martial flexibility feat, it's gonna be real useful.

Turin the Mad wrote:

At 1 "Shot"/round with your BAB progression, have you looked into Vital Strike? IIRC Vital Strike works just fine with kineticists' blasts. This one feat should double your damage dice.

Also, Empower only does +50% on the dice rolled, not (dice sum +bonus)+50%. Empowered Vital Strike should see your blasts dealing significant damage.

As of now: Vital Strike doesn't work with Kinetic Blasts as those are standard action spell-like abilities. Vital Strike only works with the attack action.

As of now: Vital Strike does work with Kinetic Blade/Whip as you can use those with an attack action.
Once the book comes out, Vital Strike will have specific wording on not working with Blade/Whip anymore, as per Mark's post

Empower DOES add +50% to the bonuses to the dice rolled also, as clarified by this FAQ

FAQ wrote:

Empower Spell: If I use Empower Spell on a spell that has a die roll with a numerical bonus (such as cure moderate wounds), does the feat affect the numerical bonus?

Yes. For example, if you empower cure moderate wounds, the +50% from the feat applies to the 2d8 and to the level-based bonus.

The feat is allowing a SPECIAL clause for monks to use it while unarmed despite fists not being a two-handed weapon, as long as the monk has both hands empty. It's basically allowing the monk the thematically rush in and attack with "two fists as one" while treating it as one attack roll (per attack if the monk indeed has a "pounce" effect active): one roll of the unarmed damage dice + 2xStrength modifier.

Sorwen wrote:

Old, but since this is the thread that comes up every Google search I do for size I wanted to leave this here. I'm not sure if the rule is elsewhere or was dropped after 3.0. Magic armor(I don't remember if weapons could as well) could resize 1 size catagory up or down. That is when the precentiles came in. So you have a "30% chance of being Small (01–30)" so that means it could resize down to tiny or up to medium. A large creature would be out of luck. Again I don't know if 3.5/Pathfinder changed this or if the rule is just found somewhere else, but that is the rule my group still follows.

Now back to trying to find if there is a magic enchantment that will size greater than that or if I'll have to house rule something.

New options came in recently this year:

Both are from Giant Hunter's Handbook.

Xelaaredn wrote:
Grumpus wrote:

Probably missed a clarification, but do we treat the Kineticist level as caster level for purposes of overcoming Spell Resistance?

I don't see anything in the playtest document which clarifies.
Caster level is equal to half your Kineticist level IIRC

That's for effective SPELL level. Caster level for purposes of spell resistance would be kineticist level.

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TrollingJoker wrote:
Akerlof wrote:
TrollingJoker wrote:

This is why I cannot change weapon expertise for him. So I was wondering if there would be a better option and if not then tough luck :)

That's no worries, Weapon Expertise doesn't give you much. My suggested build didn't even use the main benefit of it: To get Fighter only feats. Quickdraw and +2 to confirm crits are... a little niche in my opinion.

It's still doing (assuming only a +1 Greataxe and a belt of +2 Str for 24 total Str.):

+1 Greataxe +15 (+13) +10 (1d12+19 20/x3)

The +13 attack is if he succeeds at an intimidate using Cornugon Smash to get a free swift action attack. 7 ranks of Intimidate, Class Skill, 10 Cha makes it a +10 intimidate, +18 if you add Intimidating Prowess which should be pretty close to auto success at level 7.

Without challenge, looking at about 43 DPR against a 23 AC (Which the bestiary says is par for a CR 9 monster). Killing a CR+2 enemy in 3 rounds is right on par for a full BAB PC. (It goes up to around 55 when he challenges.) And he even gets two attacks on one target when he moves thanks to Cornugon Smash + Hurtful.

Yeah like I said, it's a great build :) Though I think Intimidating Prowess would actually slow him down. If we use STR with CHA, then he will be affected by armor check penalties which should bring it lower than the 10 intimidate with CHA

There isn't any armor check penalties to Intimidate when you use Intimidating Prowess because it adds Strength to Intimidate IN ADDITION to Charisma. It's still a Charisma-based skill.

Samurai with an axe seems fine with me. So he won't be winning any crit-fishing awards, that's hardly the only way to build a samurai. You allowed a +4 Str race to play a martial class, any "weaknesses" to the build are basically covered if he buys a post-racial bonus Strength of 18 or 20. Main appeal of samurai is the resolve mechanic and a mount where not almost all your class resources are devoted to using (i.e. cavalier).

Keep Weapon Expertise with katana. Player with an orc with a greataxe is probably gonna say the character is always carrying it to begin with. If he ever gets grappled by something that's hard to escape, switching to a one-handed weapon with a free action is gonna be real useful.

If you were to lose flurry of blows, you'd lose the style strike ability because it specifically states, "Whenever [the monk] makes a flurry of blows, he can designate one of his unarmed strikes as a style strike."

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Cap shouldn't be a paladin. More fighter or brawler. His personal code of honor and ethics and morality ought to make other paladins go, "Daaaaaamn. I wish I was that hardcore. He SHOULD be a paladin so he'd stop making the rest of us look so lacking in comparison!"


Matthew Morris wrote:
Protoman wrote:
Additional Resources wrote:
Traits: all traits on pages 3–7 are legal for play, except fey thoughts. Feral speech does not allow a PC to learn Druidic.
I'm not sure why Fey Thoughts is mentioned since the Feyborn section was presenting alternative racial traits. Are the Fey Magic and Low-Light Vision options PFS legal? If they are, that means a human couldn't take either because Fey Thoughts isn't available, right?

Or it means you *can* sub it out, but don't get the free skills. :-(

That...seems like an awkward and unclear situation that could benefit from a tad more elaboration in the Additional Resources page lol

Charon's Little Helper wrote:
Gisher wrote:

How do you get claw/claw/bite for a Tiefling?
I'm pretty sure he meant Tengu since he'd already mentioned Tieflings.

Easiest way for a tiefling to get claw/claw/bite I think is "Maw or Claw" alternative racial trait and selecting the two 1d4 claws; and pick up Adopted social trait in order to pick up the Tusked race trait.

Page 8 of Unchained.

These classes can be used alongside their original counterparts (although individual characters must use one version or the other exclusively)


Additional Resources wrote:
Traits: all traits on pages 3–7 are legal for play, except fey thoughts. Feral speech does not allow a PC to learn Druidic.

I'm not sure why Fey Thoughts is mentioned since the Feyborn section was presenting alternative racial traits. Are the Fey Magic and Low-Light Vision options PFS legal? If they are, that means a human couldn't take either because Fey Thoughts isn't available, right?


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Since there aren't any other faction specific "vanities", that's referring to the prestige awards.

Oh damn, yea it should work.


Yes. Check out Page 18 of the Guide to Organized Play pdf.

Feral combat training doesn't work with Pummeling Style.

Pummeling style doesn't augment an unarmed strike. It only allows unarmed strikes.

Pummeling style isn't flurry of blows. It's a full round action that allows you to make a number of attack rolls one can make with a full attack or flurry of blows.

Ravingdork wrote:
Can you get an old monk class ability on the unchained monk via a qinggong power? Something like the ability to slow fall without the need for spending ki?

Mark had an answer here

Mark Seifter wrote:

Mark, a question on the Unchained Monk - since one of his options is take any qinggong power that he's high enough level for, could he use that to get the Core Monk versions of certain powers if he wants them? Like Diamond Body?

So he could take the Unchained Diamond Body at 8th, or take the Core Diamond Body (as a qinggong ki power) at 12th?

If you took something as a qinggong power, you would use the version in Unchained if there is one. Then again, this is Unchained, so feel free to unchain that away if you like!

Well it looks like Flying Kick would still allow the movement since it happens before the attack.

All the other ones, yea looks like it gets wasted.

Rub-Eta wrote:
Battle axes or pickaxes would be appropriate for someone adopted by dwarfs.

Dwarves already got weapon familiarity, so no Weapon Focus option via Adopted Parentage for dwarf-adopted humans.

The FIRST paragraph in the Familiar section has this:

PRD wrote:
A familiar is an animal chosen by a spellcaster to aid him in his study of magic. It retains the appearance, Hit Dice, base attack bonus, base save bonuses, skills, and feats of the normal animal it once was, but is now a magical beast for the purpose of effects that depend on its type. Only a normal, unmodified animal may become a familiar. An animal companion cannot also function as a familiar.

The familiar doesn't get extra animal skill points or improved base saves as the master levels up. It uses either its own (which NEVER improves on its own) or it uses the master's. Whichever is better.

The same is applied to feats. Except the familiar rules don't have anything to say about feats (except for those Familiar feats that can be swapped out with the familiar's base feats), so they don't get new ones as the master levels up.

The "effects related to number of Hit Dice" simply refer to effects being thrown at the familiar that are dependent on how many hit dice it has, such as sleep, color spray, detect alignment spells.

If you do a search on the forums for "Familars feats HD" you'd find a general consensus. the '+' sign doesn't seem to be working as of late.

Appropriate skills might be any skill the default race (no alternative racial traits) grants a bonus to.

Weapons are harder as usually any race mentions weapons it's typically part of Weapon Familiarity, so the Weapon Focus option wouldn't be available for them.

Tengu is a nice option for Weapon Focus. The swordtrained racial trait isn't weapon familiarity and grants a nice list of options for Focus.

But in general, Adopted Parentage is only useful in very specific cases.

Ssyvan wrote:

There is no specific rule saying you can make AoOs while using Total Defense though? And there is a specific rule saying you can't make AoOs while using Total Defense.

So Brf, you're saying that I gain a +4 to hit on all AoOs when I take this feat? Because that seems rather excessive.

No specific rule says you can make attack of opportunity while total defense unless the feat specifically says so, like with Crane Riposte.

Total defense normally says you can't make attacks of opportunity. Specific feats can get around that limitation. See Crane Riposte.

Brf is saying you'd get +4 bonus to CONFIRMATION rolls when fighting defensively or AoOs, which are for confirming critical hits AFTER you've rolled a threat on a d20.

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Lile Brf said:

The once per day attack is not an attack of opportunity. When you use the total defense action, the feat lets you make an attack during your turn, when you normally can't, at -4 penalty.

All day, when you fight defensively or make an attack of opportunity (not while in total defense), you get a +4 bonus to confirmation rolls.

Mark says he's marked off the "technically an archetype" in the ACG for an errata.


John Compton wrote:
Protoman wrote:
Is there a time limit for the opoortunity to rebuild? It says has to be done before April 27, 2015 (which is today of the blog post). Do we need to get a GM to initial chronicle sheets for the rebuilds today if we want to play characters later in the week?
You'll need to make sure you apply any changes before you play the character again after this blog went live. If you don't play your barbarian until December 2015 for whatever reason, you would perform the rebuild then.

Cool! Thanks John!


Is there a time limit for the opoortunity to rebuild? It says has to be done before April 27, 2015 (which is today of the blog post). Do we need to get a GM to initial chronicle sheets for the rebuilds today if we want to play characters later in the week?

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If this is actually for PFS:

If he doesn't participate in at least 3 encounters in the Society scenario (not ones he makes up to have in the bar), give him the Chronicle Sheet with 0 XP. If he didn't participate with the group earning the Prestige Points conditions, don't award him any. Each of the encounters (well maybe not the oldest scenarios) have an amount of GP lost for each player if they lose an encounter. Keep track of which ones the player doesn't participate in and deduct from the Chronicle Sheet. Easier if he doesn't participate in any, as that's 0 Gold. Cross off all the boons he didn't earn or encounter.

Society games have their hook right in the intro with the Venture Captain assigning the mission, if he doesn't play, he doesn't get paid. PFS GMs aren't expected to work any harder than that to get players/PCs to do the damn scenario. People sign up to play. Others don't get a chance to play from limited amount of GMs at times. He does that again, don't bother having him at the table as he's messing up opportunities for people currently at the table to have a fun time or taking up an opportunity for someone else to.

MathNerd is probably reading the Core Rulebook PRD entry on Read Magic which doesn't include non-core classes.

MathNerd, check out the main Witch page PRD entry from the Advanced Players Guide.

Or even the last witch page in the Advanced Players Guide book if that's what you're referencing.

I don't see why it would be different than the original monk, which isn't a key class for any monster role. Unless you think it's way more combaty you can have it set as that.

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