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Or a Two-Handed Shield user in a class that only gets simple weapons, like Warpriest, Inquisitor, or Shield Champion Brawler.
I think Shield-Trained actually makes two-handing a heavy shield worse. The trait makes it a light weapon so it can't benefit from 1.5xStr and 2-Handed Power Attack.
From Combat chapter:
Pretty sure Precise Shot and the other ranged combat feats (Point Blank Shot and Rapid Shot) apply to thrown weapons too.
Oh I agree. But OP's stated Charisma was a 13, which would net him only 1 Panache point, the same as if he had a 7 to 12 Charisma. Daring Champion just seems like the class/archetype to be swashbucklery when not wanting as high a Charisma.
Ah yes, I'm doing a Daring Champion in PFS for the same reasons with the added bonus of good Fort saves. Though I'm using a katana for a lightly armored samurai-kinda character. FINALLY got to level 3 and got slashing grace with it so I can finally be accurate and do some damage.I'm also doing a Str 14 Dex 18 build, the damage was fine in low levels when acting as support, but drastically behind even sword/board fighters.
What level do you start off at? Starting as level 1 Daring Champion is pretty slow going compared to Inspired Blade. Don't get all the nice deeds til level 4. Also, Daring Champion doesn't get as many of the deeds that the swashbuckler does nor Charmed Life, so doesn't really benefit from the higher Cha. And your current stat lineup is only getting you only 1 Panache point in your pool. Which you'd need to spend just to parry or leave it untouched for precise strike. If doing Daring Champion, can lower Cha to a 10 or lower and still have 1 Panache point (that you can still increase with Extra Grit/Panache feat) and free up stats elsewhere. Maybe Int for Combat Expertise if you're still wanting it.
With your wanted tactic at level 6 where you attack followed by being able to defend others with +5 ac or using opportune parry and riposte for yourself, you could be doing all that at level 1 (with only +4 aid another) with Inspired Blade, and can start off with 2 panache points (yay for minimum 1 for Cha and Int modifiers). Weapon Focus (rapier), Bodyguard, and Combat Reflexes. Then a choice of Combat Expertise and Fencing Grace at 3 or 4 (yay earlier bonus feat). I'd like Fencing Grace simply to have decent damage modifier to be multiplied on criticals. Power Attack is great and all, but sometimes want the extra accuracy. Free Improved Critical and weapon training at level 5, and Power Attack or Extra Panache. Can have pretty respectable damage. Even more so with Weapon Specialization at level 4 instead of Combat Expertise.
If you really wanna do bodyguarding, another tactic is REALLY hurt monsters so they want to attack you over everyone else. Skip Bodyguard at level 1 and get Fencing Grace to give folks more of a valid target. +4 AC is nice and all and I'm not sure on specific order that Bodyguard's aid another applies, before or after the enemy's attack roll result is revealed, but if it's before, you might be squandering your Attack of Opportunity on a low attack roll, help a party member right on the +4 mark, or not helping out at all cuz the attack roll was so much higher than the +4 AC benefit. Then Extra Panache at level 3.
I don't think Weapon Focus is that much of a feat tax no matter what the build when one wants higher attack rolls for the parry rolls or to compensate for potential Combat Expertise.
What weapon do you plan on using?
Why are you liking daring champion over regular swashbuckler? Not critiquing, just wanna know your preferences.
I don't think Swift Aid benefits from Helpful (I'm assuming the Halfling version since it's +4 and you mentioned adopted) trait.
I'm also curious on how your aid another bonus goes up to +5 at level 2.
Pummeling style has been errataed to only work with unarmed strikes. Martial versatility lets you apply one feat of an specific weapon to another one of the same group. Temple sword and unarmed strike are on the monk weapon group. Hence you can apply pummeling style to temple sword and do iajitsu. There is been some complaints from people saying it doesnt let you bypass requirements, but as far as raw goes this works. I will probably make a build based on iajitsu trought this method
Ah well martial versatility RAW/RAI arguments aside, iaijutsi and pummeling style are both their own specific full-round actions, (kinda like Spring Attack is it's own full-round action and Vital Strike is it's own Standard), I don't believe they can be used together at the same time. Especially when iaijutsu becomes a standard action.
But if Martial Versatility + Pummeling Strike does work, can still pummel when not doing iaijutsu.
Find it interesting that nobody even mentions the sword saint archetype. Ah well guess not as powerful as the other options but does fit the theme a lot.
Iajutsu strike is a chore trying to get it to work at times. Plus doesn't help with the "wearing light armor" bit the OP wanted.
I'm doing that for PFS now.
Str 14 = I'm not finessing until level 3. So a +2 Str mod and Weapon Focus and masterwork weapon would at least allow me to have the same attack roll while finessing a non-Focused, non-finessed weapon. and Can still hold in two hands for a 1d8+3 damage.
I'm still not sure how the half-elf thing works, though.
Ancestral Arms: Some half-elves receive training in an unusual weapon. Half-elves with this racial trait receive Exotic Weapon Proficiency or Martial Weapon Proficiency with one weapon as a bonus feat at 1st level. This racial trait replaces the adaptability racial trait.
I was just using half-elves' ancestral arms as a common example of a race granting a feat despite a potential class' lack of BAB meeting the prerequisite. Like a half-elf rogue picking up elven curve blade proficiency or half-elf magus (not kensai) getting katana proficiency.
Some Other Guy wrote:
The same reason why half-elves with Ancestral Arms and +0 BAB at level 1 can still take Exotic Weapon Proficiency or Dawnflower Dervish when it's a feat specifically granted by race or class and doesn't say it needs to meet prereqs it'll skip the prerequisites.
Tengu have been a legal race in PFS for at least couple seasons now so their racial options are open to Adopted Parentage. Tengu specifically do not have weapon familiarity which would have prevented Weapon Focus or Skill Focus selection from Adopted Parentage. Tengu also got a list of weapons specifically tied to the race: Swordtrained. So easy enough to pick up Weapon Focus from the swordtrained list without anyone claiming you're pulling up random weapon selection to justify the Weapon Focus, like say a Human with Adopted Parentage (undine) and picking up Weapon Focus (dwarven battleaxe).
The whole Fencing Grace needing Weapon Focus issue is exactly why my human empiricist took Adopted Parentage (Tengu). Can score Weapon Focus and Weapon Finesse at level 1 and get Fencing Grace at 3. Unfortunately I'm still a little early for the book to come out so I'm waiting to get Advanced Origins PDF before playing a level 3 investigator. If you're taking Fencing Grace at level 5, do get mutagen at that level, it'll make the feat more worthwhile; otherwise it's a feat that only does +2 damage (Str 13 vs Dex 16), with mutagen the feat does +4 damage (Str 13 vs Dex 20).
Before bigdaddyjug can lower strength, he'll have to check on his encumbrance first (and you should too, Avatar-1). Formula book, alchemy crafting kit, thieves tools, and good light armor are all pretty heavy things that an investigator would want with him all times and can accumulate quickly. And if being (possibly mutagen-enhanced) Dex-build, wanna keep in light load. Sure this isn't an issue after level 3, where Ant Haul can last a decent amount of time and can afford handy haversack soon, but lower levels it can be a great big drag.
I wouldn't bother with Butterfly's Sting for PFS unless you're playing with someone specifically every game that's willing to work with you on synching up initiatives. I met a married couple that does that: one with higher initatives delay so they act RIGHT after another, rogue dual wields kukris, when she crits -> Butterfly's Sting, paladin with scythe does major damage. Without that teammate, in a typical PFS game, someone else's crit might not be all that much better compared to your Fencing Grace crit = 2d6 + 2xDex + 1/2 investigator level.
Ah right, forgot greatclub was martial. Heavy mace or morningstar it is.
16 Int I think would be fine. Hard to imagine something lasting more than 3 rounds for studied combat. You get a number of inspiration = 1/2 investigator class levels + Int modifier. 1-2 loss of inspiration ain't a big deal when at low levels you're gonna be using them for the trained knowledge/linguisitcs/spellcraft checks which don't need to spend the points.
14 does seem too low for a non-human. Investigators want skills, even melee-focused ones, as that's what they're bringing to the party that most other classes have difficulty contributing. When using a mutagen for strength bonus, the -2 Int penalty is gonna cut into the studied combat duration too much.
Well if you're aware and not caring of the 7 Wis, no point commenting on it. Your current stats would have AC around 17 with fullplate at level 3 or 5, 19 with mutagen. Higher if it's magical. At levels 1 and 2, it'll be a 15 with the best medium armors.
If you got 16 Int, can get a better Dex = Str 16, Dex 13, Con 16, Int 16 [14+2], Wis 7, Cha 7
You're picking up Empiricist and Student of Philosophy, 2 very RP-specific things, so I assume you're gonna put ranks in at least some of this list: Bluff, Diplomacy, Disable Device, Perception (obviously), Sense Motive, Use Magic Device.
You get expanded inspiration and can make your games lot funner/easier. Unless ALL you're focused on is combat, then I'd have to wonder why bother with empiricist at all.
If you're sticking with the Half-Orc idea, what weapon you gonna use? If a two-hander or the longsword, go for power attack. Do you like the Inspired weapon enchantment? If so, maybe greatclub? Arcane Strike is out cuz you alchemy doesn't qualify for it and I don't see any spell like abilities in the build. Do you really need Extra Inspiration at level 3? I suggest playing with the character for first few levels and see how much inspiration you use in a day before committing to that.
Your Int is unnecessarily high if it means dumping your Wisdom so low. There are plenty of scenarios where you'd want as good a Will save as you can get, and having a a +2 Will with a sacred tattoo/fate's favored half-orc investigator is kinda disappointing.
How do you envision this character going into combat? Wading into combat slowly? Support? Tanking?
I've built a melee empiricist investigator recently too. He's at 5 XP and I'm waiting til Advanced Origins Comes out before I play him again for Fencing Grace.
Ah you're right, thanks.
lol yea the whiner can learn the hard way if he doesn't wanna crack open the Combat chapter of the rulebook.
Well, some people just gotta learn the hard way. If he's gonna roleplay in combat a reckless alchemist/gunslinger (a combination that's ALREADY crazy accurate/damagey) that shoots from adjacent squares, he might as well take all the hits. Heck, maybe he's acting that way as a subtle way for him to level the playing field with your monsters ;)
David knott 242 wrote:
Well the writer of the archetype, Jim Grove, stated the Shield Champion is supposed to be proficient in shield as a weapon and armor.
Technically with the way it's worded that each shield is specified as proficient, which I think might be the only case for that besides swashbucklers and bucklers, could be argued that they meant for it to be listed as weapon and armor proficiencies. But it REALLY needs an errata or FAQ to clear that up for PFS (my dreams of Captain Andoran build are being delayed because of this!)
I'd still price it as a weapon.
It's not light, medium, or heavy armor. And it's obviously not ammunition.
Shields are listed in the weapons table.
There's no pricing by weight like mithral, so pricing it as anything else than the listed categories is houserule/custom item territory. Like an adamantine crowbar or pocket watch. You're free to do so, but that argument would never be any more solid than "price as a weapon".
That's only if the Quick Study talent gets updated/still exists.
I don't really see the issue with what they're doing within your specifications of your game to draw in-game ire to begin with.
But to address your topic, giving them random fights would just be rewarding them with potential XP and probably fun encounters for them since they probably built for combat. Or gives more social characters in party an opportunity to shine to calm randomly-grumpy NPC down.
Prices shouldn't be higher for them. That's rather arbitrarily silly/petty and they can just get party member to help buy them stuff.
But yea, more social encounters. Though if they pick up traits or feats to use something other than Charisma modifier for social skills, good for them.
Muleback Cords affect your carrying capacity, so you get a much higher light, medium, and heavy load.
From the carrying capacity rules:
An acrobatic swashbuckler paladin is NEVER out of the question.
Wish I saw this post before my first reply.
With just the shield as a weapon puts you in the Captain America/Andoran build territory, which is among my favorites/
Str 16 Dex 14 Con 12 Int 10 Wis 8 Cha 14
Just having Acrobatics as class skill and maxed out will allow you to jump and balance decently even in heavy armor.
But if you want to be more acrobatic, go more Dex based.
While 15-point buy is standard for APs, I think most DM's use the PFS standard of 20.
Ability Scores: Definitely need to up your Con. Melee with 10 Con might as well turn in their character sheet.
Suggestions (these are all post racial bonus of +2 to Strength)
Feats: Power Attack. And two-hand something like longsword/greataxe/greatsword/morningstar. Whatever. If do wanna stick with shield, only do it for first level. That shield is gonna mess up lay on hands (at 2nd level) and casting spells (at 4th level) in the future. For second feat, I'd suggest Weapon Focus. If you got an Wis 8, maybe pick up Iron Will if you're worried will saves are too low.
Traits: What traits did you pick for yourself? Who's your deity? Do you worship Iomedae? Check out Chosen of Iomedae. Masterwork longsword! Or Rich Parents could get that too I suppose. Outfit yourself in decent stuff.
Equipment: I assume you have standard starting cash of 175 gp for paladins? Skip the chainshirt. That's for rogues. You got a lousy Dex mod with that 15-point buy, work around that. You might not like the speed penalty, but you can buy mithral in the future. Check out the PRD for armor. Get scale mail. If your GM allows some eastern armor (some GMs are whiners about Eastern stuff in a "western game"), consider kikko or four-mirror armor depending on how much money you got. If you're insisting on using shield, sure longsword. If you picked up some medium armor that would allow your AC to be as good as with a shield to begin with, go bigger weapon with power attack (example: greatsword or nodachi or falchion) and lay a hurting on monsters. Current decent weapon choices for paladins often recommend 18-20/x2 or x3 or x4 crit weapons, as paladins can multiply their smite damage on crits.
Skils: DEFINITELY have social skill or two. Preferably Diplomacy if you're comfortable with it. Carrion Crown has quite a bit of social interactions and Diplomacy would make your life easier. Especially when you got a decent Cha. Knowledge (religion) is also good if your GM is good about giving out monster knowledge/lore (in this case: undead).
Do you plan on having a mount at level 5? I'm not sure I'd recommend it, as the AP doesn't afford a lot of space or decent terrain to use it all the time I think.
Kitsune race. Realistic Likeness feat turn into anyone (probably human specific? I dunno).
Bard's good. If you're willing to level dip, 3 levels in Charlatan Rogue can get you the Rumormonger advanced rogue talent that could basically let you con whole COMMUNITIES if you got a week of downtime to lie to folks.