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Cayden Cailean

Protoman's page

Goblin Squad Member. FullStarFullStar Pathfinder Society GM. 1,899 posts (1,912 including aliases). 1 review. No lists. No wishlists. 10 Pathfinder Society characters.


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In that case, no. No benefiting from a tower shield without actually using an arm.

Ranged Tactics Toolbox Players Companion has gambion in the equipment section. Large cylinders one can fill with rocks, dirt, etc to provide some cover, can be stacked for better cover. Takes several minutes to set up though.

**

Unchained Rogues may freely rebuild into an Unchained Rogue.

Ninjas unfortunately cannot rebuild, nor take another of the unchained rogue options.


By level 5, a brawler with close weapon mastery will be increasing the gauntlet damage.

Hero labs treats the gauntlets as unarmed attack for some stuff (weapon focus, amulet of mighty fists, Quain martial artist trait) but keeps the damage die of the gauntlet.

How it's supposed to work officially, Paizo still has to clarify that. Recently they gave indication that it'll be brought up for discussion for FAQ, but nothing so far.


Terevalis Unctio of House Mysti wrote:
Protoman wrote:
Terevalis Unctio of House Mysti wrote:
Magic Missile should do full damage correct?

Incorporeal: Creatures with the incorporeal condition do not have a physical body. Incorporeal creatures are immune to all nonmagical attack forms. Incorporeal creatures take half damage (50%) from magic weapons, spells, spell-like effects, and supernatural effects. Incorporeal creatures take full damage from other incorporeal creatures and effects, as well as all force effects.

Magic missile has the [force] descriptor and states doing force damage. Incorporeal creatures takes full damage from magic missile unless they got stuff to defend against it.

This is good to know, I am fighting a greater shadow in a game right now.

If you got it prepped, might wanna cast mage armor and/or shield spells. Incorporeal touch attacks don't ignore force effect armor bonuses to AC.


Terevalis Unctio of House Mysti wrote:
Magic Missile should do full damage correct?

Incorporeal: Creatures with the incorporeal condition do not have a physical body. Incorporeal creatures are immune to all nonmagical attack forms. Incorporeal creatures take half damage (50%) from magic weapons, spells, spell-like effects, and supernatural effects. Incorporeal creatures take full damage from other incorporeal creatures and effects, as well as all force effects.

Magic missile has the [force] descriptor and states doing force damage. Incorporeal creatures takes full damage from magic missile unless they got stuff to defend against it.


Ah ok, never knew about the harrow deck of many things.

I don't know if the monster advancement table is ever used for anything besides actual "monster advancement" and creation.

The polymorph stuff I'd assume is used for any magical effect, but I don't really know much about transmutation/polymorph stuff (I stay away from it as a player because it looks too complicated for a fun time for me to use for a character).

But if unstated, I'd assume it's a simple -/+ size modifier to attack/AC/CMB/CMD/skills and no ability score changes, like how one can make a small sized tiefling/aasimar as specified from Blood of Fiends/Angels books, or with kineticists' kinetic form utility wild talent.


Have you changed the size of your weapons/armor on hero labs? They might not change on they're own simply because you changed race/size unless via a spell effect listed in the Adjustment tabs. Try putting in a new medium heavy flail and see if it's still 2d8 (make sure the equipment size drop box has "medium" selected.

Is there a link for online source for these card effects to reference?

I'm not sure where it's stated anywhere if you'd actually get a change to Strength and Dexterity simply for changing size category. Does the card state it's a polymorph effect or enlarge person or something?


That's great to hear, Amber!


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"What sort of monster would be drawn by magical energy?"

Why the very worst kind!

Dangerous.

Disgusting.

Kills without remorse or question.

Defiles corpses and its belongings.

...ADVENTURERS!

**

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Very wordy posts comes off as weaselly/shifty and can cause others to be skeptical or suspicious of things left unsaid or hidden behind all the text.

Not to mention when wordy posts don't say clearly what is intended to be said.


Mark Seifter has said before that "treat your X level as your Y level for purpose A does not give you a Y level for purposes other than A. Feat prerequisites are their own purpose (several classes do treat their levels as some function of fighter levels for that purpose, like magus and warpriest)."

So I'd say magus fighter training is just for feat prerequisites and doesn't help with effects that are actually dependent on fighter's levels.


Wyrwoods!

**

Lau Bannenberg wrote:
Protoman wrote:

Wang Fire got lucky and got black tentacled. I bought a ring of serene contortions specifically for one day benefiting from the once per day True Stike ability to escape from the grapple with a decent grapple check.

...I'm sure that ring has other uses too. I guess?

That's a very peculiar ring. Can you activate the True Strike even while grappled?

---

Last week my Edgy cleric tried to get in the darkmantle's face to tempt it to grapple him. I figured that even with my Str 10 a level 4 cleric had a shot of getting out. Sadly someone else jumped in between it and me. ("Silly brawler, I was trying to get it to jump me. Why did you kill it?")

I haven't found any reference to not being able to activate magic items while in a grapple.

The tactic does need one to be grappled for one extra round. 1 to activate as a standard action, another round to actually escape with an opposed CMB check.

**

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BigNorseWolf wrote:
Protoman wrote:

Wang Fire got lucky and got black tentacled. I bought a ring of serene contortions specifically for one day benefiting from the once per day True Stike ability to escape from the grapple with a decent grapple check.

...I'm sure that ring has other uses too. I guess?

Paracountess twister?

Hmm I think the Crimson Falcon's Chelaxian lawyer social identity is gonna have to make a fun purchase soon.


How 'bout we all just go with "Agree to Disagree" and "Expect Table Variance" for now til it ever gets clarified, if ever?

**

Wang Fire got lucky and got black tentacled. I bought a ring of serene contortions specifically for one day benefiting from the once per day True Stike ability to escape from the grapple with a decent grapple check.

...I'm sure that ring has other uses too. I guess?


Kinetic Form = Awesome for increased size = increased reach with kinetic whip and Combat Reflexes. For pure melee builds seems pretty great.

Flurry of Blasts = bunch of ranged attacks for spamming substance infusions against several targets or decreasing the saving throw against the substance infusion against one target. Opportunity cost-wise, I'd seem to always wanna pick up other level 3 infusions, it doesn't seem as great for my builds.


Well an unarmed strike is a light weapon also. With the statement of, "Light weapons require the use of limbs, so you would only be able to make attacks with them if you have a free hand" I'd have enforce a player to have a free hand to threaten with unarmed strikes when the character has other free limbs?

Armor spikes is a fantasy item sure, so I don't find it outside the realms of fantasy that it can be used more easily than you're suggesting it is.


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BigNorseWolf wrote:
Protoman wrote:
You don't have to "adjust your grip" if attacking with armor spike on a knee or some other limb besides the arm that could be used to attack. As with unarmed strikes with a kick. That limb is "free" to use to attack with. It's just with TWF that "free hands" are unavailable when also using a two-handed weapon.
That is how it worked in 3.5. Per the quote above that does not seem to be how they were intended to work in pathfinder.

Had to do a bit of digging for that quote source.

Mark Moreland wrote:
Armor spikes are treated as light weapons for the purpose of threatening adjacent squares. Light weapons require the use of limbs, so you would only be able to make attacks with them if you have a free hand. Thus, wielding a two-handed reach weapon would negate your ability to "wield" (and thus threaten with) armor spikes. This isn't necessarily clear in the rules, but I just discussed it with Jason, and we're both on the same page about the intent.

Later in that thread he goes:

Mark Moreland wrote:
The rule hasn't changed. Until there's a change to the Core Rulebook, the PFRPG FAQ, or the Pathfinder Society rules documentation, this is just me posting on the messageboards. If you were playing at my table, that's how I'd rule it, after having a conversation with the game's lead designer and based on my own interpretation. If you have a GM who reads these boards or doesn't, whether she values my suggestions or those of any other participant in the conversation or not, she remains free to adjudicate and interpret the official rules as she sees fit at her own table.

And then:

Mark Moreland wrote:
No matter how much people may want "official" rulings on any number of issues, there is no way we can ever cover every rules element in the game. This, as with many other issues, is up to GM interpretation unless Jason or someone else on the design team decides it's a large enough issue that it needs to be errata'd in a future printing of the core rules or clarified in an official FAQ.

THEN Jason Bulhahn joined in with:

Jason Bulmahn wrote:

- We are currently looking into the whole armor spike/misc non-hand weapons and how they threaten. This was a slightly bigger issue than I first thought when I gave an off the cuff opinion.

- The thing to remember here, that I want to stress, is that generally speaking, the only places where a PFS judge is required to follow rulings is the rulebooks, updates, FAQ posts, and PFS rules documents. Everything else is left to judge discretion at the table. There is no way around this. We cannot ask our judges to be familiar with every ruling or thought from every messageboard post, even if it comes from a staff member.

- For you home game, you don't even have to pay attention to the above sources. Its your game after all.

In another thread, Mark posts:

Mark Moreland wrote:
Since we've instituted the change to what messageboard clarifications are and are not binding in the campaign, I'd prefer this rules issue be directed to the rules team, since any ruling on it in PFS would adhere to the interpretation they decide upon. So I'm not going to comment on it, as it will undoubtedly lead to more confusion. For questions of how the core rules work (and not just how they work in Pathfinder Society games), please request FAQs from Jason, Sean, and Stephen.

Since then we'd only had the one FAQ dealing with armor spikes and it's only related to TWF.

So Mark's quote was made as an opinion backed up by discussion with Jason on his "off the cuff opinion" made at the time, but since then Jason states the situation was more complex than originally realized.

I'm concluding that it isn't yet ruled on if one can wield armor spikes while also wielding two-handed weapon. Until I see evidence to the contrary I'll simply rule with what I see as my own common sense for now and say any free limb will work for armor spikes (or unarmed attacks) and still have hands free for two-handed weapon, while keeping mind the FAQ for TWF purposes.


You don't have to "adjust your grip" if attacking with armor spike on a knee or some other limb besides the arm that could be used to attack. As with unarmed strikes with a kick. That limb is "free" to use to attack with. It's just with TWF that "free hands" are unavailable when also using a two-handed weapon.

**

Liberator should work as how you're reading it to work.

That one took my Liberty's Edge kineticist forever to get. Hard to get things to grapple him long enough to escape from before things get killed too quickly.


Magus doesn't qualify for Advanced Armor Training combat feat.

Magus level 10 Fighter Training will cover the "fighter level 3rd" prereq, but the Advanced Armor Training combat feat requires Armor Training as a class feature, which magus doesn't provide.

Armor Focus feat doesn't help as it only "counts as the armor training class feature for the purpose of armor mastery feat prerequisites". The Advanced Armor Training combat feat is not an Armor Mastery feat.

An armored battlemage or myrmidarch would work though as they keep fighter training class feature and get armor training and can get advanced armor training without the feat. But neither of these archetypes would help with the Armor Specialization advanced armor training option because they don't have effective fighter levels for the advanced armor training effects that are level-dependent.


If you got armor spikes, you probably got armor spikes on knees or elbows or whatever, so one has the free limb to attack with, so don't have to readjust grip on longspear in order to threaten and make AoO. Much like the same case with Improved Unarmed Strike or a natural attack that doesn't involve hands/arms. One simply doesn't have the free hand/limb available for TWF use when also using a two-handed weapon.


They're not errata'd. But for PFS (and only PFS), they can only be used for 1/day.


Just a note, metal mystery's armor mastery isn't "armor training", that's an important distinction for prereq purposes. Also armor mastery doesn't work with heavy armor, but I assume mithral full plate is a plan for your build.

Level dip metal oracle for armor mastery and get dance of the blades via Extra Revelation feat. Ring works but crazy expensive and who wants to lose the speed bonus if suddenly magic is taken away or doesn't work?

Take a level in cleric or inquisitor with travel domain for extra +10 ft.

Go full vigilante afterwards. I prefer avenger for the full BAB. Get shadow's speed (+10 speed, it'll become +20 later), lethal grace (for a comparable, if not stronger damage boost than slashing grace), and Spymaster's Handbook has Fantastic Stride granting 6th level vigilantes Spring Attack, when you can afford mithral full plate pick up Heavy Training talent.


Buri Reborn wrote:

I see the pricing got updated for the CRB but Ultimate Equipment is still using old pricing.

UE

UE only recentlly got errata'd and the changes hasn't hit the PRD yet.


Ravingdork wrote:

[link]

The above FAQ only clarifies attacks made on your turn while using two-weapon fighting.

Correct.

Ravingdork wrote:
Would you be able to attack with both armor spikes and the greatsword if you were NOT using two-weapon fighting, splitting up the attacks between your iterative attacks?

Yes.

Ravingdork wrote:
If you attacked with a reach weapon, such as a longspear, could you still threaten adjacent spaces with another weapon (such as armor spikes), and could make attacks of opportunity with them, until your next turn?

Yup.

That FAQ was only to stop one from benefiting two-handed weapon use + light weapon off-hand while TWF.

Just using iterative attacks one could attack with two-handed weapon, let go with one hand or drop sword entire and do other things like shoot bow (for switch hitting builds), or quickdraw throw dagger, or punch, or don't bother letting go of weapon and kick with unarmed strike or armor spike someone. One just isn't allowed to do that with a two-handed attack with all the two-handed bonuses with two weapon fighting. I believe unchained monk would be the closest thing to actually benefit from such a thing though.

For threatening with AoOs, even if both hands are occupied, you're still threatening with your armor spikes, just as if a monk or anyone with improved unarmed strike would be threatening with unarmed strikes. The TWF restriction specified from the FAQ doesn't impede your AoOs.


Dragon78 wrote:
Can you apply empower/maximize or composite dice to kinetic healing?

No to metakinesis applying to kinetic healing, but elemental overflow and kineticist's diadem would work though.


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Trellon Falorin wrote:
Jack Brown wrote:
They have stated it is not a bug, when I reported it as one.

Oh...it's a feature and not a good one.

Yeah. The consensus here and on the Facebook PFS page is the same. You get the extra attack with one weapon or the other.

I asked in PFS thread because a lot of folks use Hero Lab in addition to the necessary books for their characters, and sometimes PFS rulings can be...wonky (Like spellcasters with spellbooks not getting the 2 free spells when taking a level in a PrC with +1 Caster Level).

Prestige classes not granting bonus spells in spellbooksisn't just for PFS.


It's not a bug, it's as Andrew Christian states it. At any given round you might wanna use the extra attack from the main-hand or off-hand weapon and Hero Lab shows you the math for each weapon.

For your other weapons: ranged, back-ups, and extra weapon loot you collected, Hero Lab would show your extra attack modifiers even if they're not "equipped" by assigning hands to them.


Closest thing I can find would be Impact Critical Shot which yea that ought to work with kinetic blasts on a conductive weapon, though not sure why piercing would be specified.

There's Impaling Critical, but that only works with melee weapons, and kinetic blasts wouldn't be able to be used with conductive melee weapons because they need a form infusion in order to used as a melee weapon and as it is used specifically as part of certain actions to make the blade/whip, rather than something that is delivered on a hit..


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If you check out the PFS Additional Resources page, it has this ruling:

"The Spring- Heeled Style feat also functions when using a full-round action to use the Spring Attack feat."

The ruling is only specifically for PFS, but since this is a Player's Companion book, official errata/clarification is gonna be slow coming (if at all), so I suggest using the PFS fix for it if you want Spring-Heeled Style to be more functional in home games.


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Mark Seifter wrote:
swoosh wrote:

Sorry to keep asking dumb rules questions but this one is really nagging me. The Heavy wrist launcher is a cool weapon and I keep trying to come up with character ideas centered around them, so...

Are wrist launchers crossbows? Can I take crossbow mastery with them? Rapid Reload? You wear the on your wrist, so can you have a wrist launcher and hold a weapon in that same hand? If you do can you still attack with that wrist launcher? Can you attack with both in the same round? Since it's on your forearm rather than in your hand does it interfere with your hand or wrist magic item slots? What about shields?

Let's see. Logan might know this better than I do, but here's my thoughts on how I might rule it in my game: I'd say they aren't crossbows, so crossbow mastery doesn't work (it actually works on all types of crossbows and not just one), nor can you as written take Rapid Reload with it but I'd allow the latter anyway. It's strapped to your wrist, so I'd say no wrist sheath but you can almost definitely hold something in the hand, and it shouldn't mess with your magic items unless wrist sheathes do. Probably the easiest way to figure out what you can do with the hand without having to work our way around the FAQ on hands of effort (which would certainly preclude attacking with wrist launcher and another weapon from the same hand; after all, just because we can Quick Draw lots of thrown weapons into that one hand doesn't mean we get more attacks for those) would be to say that the held object blocks the launch. Just for fun, I picked up a few things around the office and then slid my finger along the inside of my wrist in the direction a launched dart would go and I often found my finger poking up against the object, so at least from that perspective, it also seems to work.

What about tube arrow shooters that fall under the crossbow fighter weapon group?


Just a reminder because it's not always obvious if only relying on D20PFSRD for rules information: in order to benefit from the Armor Mastery feats gotta be wearing the type of armor listed in the proficiency prereqs, those that don't list a armor proficiency prereq can be used while wearing any armor. Need to wear medium or heavy for Poised Bearing and Imposing Bearing would need heavy armor.


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Ultimate Equipment got errata'd, see page for the free errata document.

One of the changes was the price of Benevolent armor.

D20PFSRD updated obviously. If you see the home page of Archives of Nethys, it hasn't updated in a while for RL reasons.


ImmortaliseMe wrote:

Adopted

You were adopted and raised by someone not of your race, and raised in a society not your own.
As a result, you picked up a race trait from your adoptive parents and society, and may immediately select a race trait from your adoptive parents' race.

if that means race trait from the family, then a human adopted by dwarves can have the race trait of dark vision.

but since the race trait on the adopted page actually links to the list of race traits where blood of dragons is listed.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/race-traits

Darkvision is a racial trait of dwarves, which you can see in the race details

Race Traits is a category of traits.

Picking up the Social Trait "Adopted" allows one to pick up another race's Race Trait, not another race's Racial Trait, like a dwarf's Hatred or Stonecunning racial trait.


lemeres wrote:
ImmortaliseMe wrote:
human can take adopted trait - that grants you a racial trait (only racial trait) from your adopted family. Racial trait blood of dragons will give you low-light vision as one possible option. Now your human (adopted by dragon blooded family) has low light vision

Did you need any particular race for blood of dragons? It seemed like a general "this is in your body, and affects you life" thing, so it got shoved under race traits but could be used for anyone.

So I am unsure if you need adopted cheese to grab that trait. And if you did... boo on you, and your catfolk trained in the art of having foot long teeth by halforcs.

From Ultimate Campaign, Bloodline Race Traits: "Members of any race can select one of these traits, as they represent distant bloodlines intermixed with or corrupting those your race."

And Blood of Dragons falls under the Bloodline Race Traits.


ImmortaliseMe wrote:
human can take adopted trait - that grants you a racial trait (only racial trait) from your adopted family. Racial trait blood of dragons will give you low-light vision as one possible option. Now your human (adopted by dragon blooded family) has low light vision

1) Really old thread, how did you even come across this topic? Searched low-light/darkvision without checking last date?

2) Adopted doesn't get you access to another race's racial traits like low-light vision or darkvision, it gives one access to another race's race category of traits by spending a social trait. Blood of Dragons would count as a Race Trait.


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If the character has gun twirling feat could do it by having only one gun drawn at a time and still benefit from TWF.


Saldiven wrote:
I still really question the validity of getting the benefit of TWF and having a free hand at the same time.

It'd be no different than in a TWF knife-throwing build quick draws daggers with both hands and throws them at enemies. They got free hands for a good portion of the full-attack action duration.


James Risner wrote:

You are not wrong....

It's just so exciting a feat...
and July 12, 2016 is a long way away!

Why July 12?

Anyhoo, feat popped up on Hero Labs since the book is out so I checked it out...it looks odd.

Imbicatus mentioned Dragon Ferocity having the same language, but that's not the case as Ferocity states "increase your Strength bonus on unarmed strike damage rolls by an additional one-half your Strength bonus" implying the bonus itself is improved.

But Gate Breaker says regular sunder damage "plus an additional amount equal to your Strength modifier." Wouldn't that fall under the No Stacking Same Ability Modifiers rule even if one bonus is just an unnamed bonus equivalent to Strength modifier? Or is the additional amount of damage not considered a "bonus"?


Renkosuke wrote:

Hm, that's true, I always assumed they mentioned that those maneuvers didn't provoke but there's nothing of the sort written in. That's rather strange.

Thanks for the input protoman, that makes creating an EA a lot easier :D

Not a problem. Props to you for wanting to brave that archetype out. For the AoO vs maneuver infusions, maybe pick up the Dirty Fighting feat and flank a lot if you plan on spamming maneuvers.


First, Year of the Sky Q&A Blog has the Design Team's ruling about robot hardness for Iron Gods.

How does hardness work for creatures? Does energy damage such as cold deal half damage to creatures with hardness (Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook 173-174) even before applying the flat numerical reduction?
When a creature with hardness sustains damage, subtract its hardness from the damage dealt. The rules for halving damage, doubling damage, dealing damage with ineffective tools, immunities, and the like only apply to damaging inanimate objects.
(This is apparently a question the Design Team has received a few times during the development of Iron Gods, so they were ready to go with an answer!)

Kentoras wrote:
The first one is that robots are vulnerable to electricity. When I read about hardnes I read that some elements may bypass this hardnes, but that was in animated objects hardnes rule. So does this apply? Is is at GM will?

By default, you'd reduce energy damage by hardness amount first, then apply extra vulnerability damage with whatever energy damage remaining.

Rob McCreary had this to say on another AP:

Quote:

The animated objects are constructs, so they are now creatures, not objects. As creatures, energy damage is not halved against them (in effect, becoming a creature trumps the normal object rules). So they take full damage from energy attacks (150% if they are vulnerable to that energy type), then hardness is applied. However, page 174 of the Core Rulebook states (under "Vulnerability to Certain Attacks") that "Certain attacks are especially successful against some objects.In such cases, attacks deal double their normal damage and my ignore the object's hardness."

Even though the animated objects are no longer "objects," I would still apply this rule about overcoming hardness to them in this adventure (but the 150% creature vulnerability trumps the double damage to an object part of the rule), as hardness can be quite difficult to overcome for low-level PCs. So if the PCs use fire against the warrior dolls, for example, it would deal 150% the normal damage, and ignore the hardness. Other energy damage would deal full damage which would ten be reduced by hardness, the same as for any other attack against it.

His vulnerability before hardness statement doesn't seem accurate as defensive abilities always apply before vulnerability, such as with saving throws and energy resistance, I don't see why it wouldn't be the same with hardness.

His second statement would support "The GM chooses if special energy attacks bypass creature's (or object's) hardness".

Kentoras wrote:

The other thing was that I made an attack with my weapon having loaded a shocking grasp first. So I deal physical damage and electricity damage in the same attack, my surprise was when my GM told me that hardnes applies to each of the damages so a hardnes 10 would reduce 10 from physical damage and 10 from the electricity damage. So I did no damage at all. I was shocked because I couldn't do anything then. My question is, where can I find the rule that says that hardnes applies to all damage types even when they are part of the same attack?.

Thanks all.

Your GM is correct. Your energy damage and physical damage aren't the same thing and aren't combined together. Energy resistance only applies to your energy damage, hardness applies to both. If you had done 5 energy damage and 4 physical damage, you wouldn't expect energy resistance or damage reduction 10 to completely negate a total damage of 9, it would just affect the energy damage for resistance or physical damage for damage reduction. Since hardness applies to energy and physical damage (unlike resistance or DR) it applies to both types separately even if done as the same attack such as with magus's spellstrike or kineticist's composite blasts that does half physical/half energy.


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Diminuendo wrote:
I would settle for light armor if brawling allowed a Monk to Flurry and Fast Movement in armor.

Monks don't get nice things!


I gave up on brawling armor and still wanting to afford other things. I can understand the reasoning of why they up the price for the enchantment, I just wish they took off the light armor restriction so folks can shuck out the gold for brawling AND still could afford a decent AC. As if folks punching real well in full plate is gonna mess up the brawling aesthetic.


Renkosuke wrote:

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I thought it would be appropriate to ask a question here.

What kinds of substance infusions (if any) would work with Kinetic Fist? All of them generally reference "blast" which automatically raises a flag. Then you have these weird cases where you could do lots of pushing infusions, or bowling infusions, or god forbid enervating infusions with multiple kinetic fist attacks.

The way it seems laid out, I'm thinking that almost none of these work (an argument could be made in favor of the maneuver ones, but a "draining fist" or a "disintegrating fist" just sounds silly).

Those (and other substance infusions) all ought to work with kinetic fist. The one advantage of kinetic fist is to spam substance infusions if one could afford/negate the burn cost. All the substance infusions are gonna specify "blast" unless it only ever works with blade/whip/fist (which hasn't happened yet, I think) because that's the default mode without one of 3 specific form infusions in place.

The maneuver infusions would basically act just like a monster ability of grab/push/pull/etc. You hit with your attack, get a free maneuver check but you got a modification to your CMB check. I've never used those maneuver infusions before so I'm not sure if they'd provoke or not without the Improved Maneuver feats if doing it in melee range.


If you want brawling on something with higher AC, elven chain is the best (yet pricier) bet.


From your other thread where you asked similar/exact questions:

"You can move both yourself and your target up to half your speed. At the end of your movement, you can place your target in any square adjacent to you. If you attempt to place your foe in a hazardous location, such as in a wall of fire or over a pit, the target receives a free attempt to break your grapple with a +4 bonus."

You get a choice to where he is adjacent to you at the END of your movement. While moving, I'd say he stays adjacent to you in the same relative position when the movement started. So get the rest of the party to position themselves or be prepared to do some zigzagging.

For the movement, both the successful grappler's movement and the grapplee's forced movement because of the sustained grapple check would provoke AoOs from non-grappled opponents of the grappler/grapplee. While most of the forced movement by maneuvers (bull rush, reposition, I can't think of another example) don't provoke without a Greater version of the maneuver feat allowing it, each maneuver had to specifically state such a case of not-provoking. The grapple-move action does not state such an exception.


Half damage vs incorporeal is fine. Point is to make the fight tough, not impossible.


"You can move both yourself and your target up to half your speed. At the end of your movement, you can place your target in any square adjacent to you. If you attempt to place your foe in a hazardous location, such as in a wall of fire or over a pit, the target receives a free attempt to break your grapple with a +4 bonus."

You get a choice to where he is adjacent to you at the END of your movement. While moving, I'd say he stays adjacent to you in the same relative position when the movement started. So get the rest of the party to position themselves or be prepared to do some zigzagging.

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