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Cayden Cailean

Protoman's page

Goblin Squad Member. FullStar Pathfinder Society GM. 697 posts (699 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 6 Pathfinder Society characters.


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The Masked Ferret wrote:
DesolateHarmony wrote:
Protoman wrote:
Can one use Pathfinder Tales Chronicles once each for Core and the regular campaign?
I thought that Pathfinder Tales Chronicles could be assigned to each of your characters?
The older ones can. The 4 in 1 can be filled out only once, then applied to one character.

SPITS DRINK

Really?! Oh crap I've been holding off on those because I could never pick which character to assign them to.

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Can one use Pathfinder Tales Chronicles once each for Core and the regular campaign?


I like the emissary archetype for cavaliers. The moving in full speed while wearing medium armor ability at level 1 is a great selling point.


I don't know what you have against a strong bipedal mount with good speed and attack that fits well with Golarion lore. There's more camels and axe beaks in Absalom as mounts than horses. Maybe you can have a camel. Though you already have the imperious Chelish cavalier attitude down pat, you should probably stick with the horse or all the other Chelish nobles would snicker behind your back.


1) Alchemical silver light mace = 1d6
2) Masterwork silver dagger = 1d4-1. The specific weapon entry doesn't state it forgoes the -1 penalty to damage with piercing/slashing attacks. Any monster/NPC stat entry that forgets the -1 penalty is due to writer or editor error missing that mistake.
3) +1 spellstoring sickle (The Silverhex) = 1d6


Axebeak?

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Wounded Wisp

Spoiler:
has a nice boon for Darkness spamming scenarios. Not useful against Deeper Darkness, but I intend on getting it anyways for my brawler.


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PF doesn't allow longswords to pierce either. You're overthinking it.

Also, historical rapiers may have a sharpened edge and can cut a bit, but the cross-section shape of the blade was more of a diamond and really only supported thrusting attacks and couldn't really cut as deeply as other cut-designed swords.


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N. Jolly wrote:
Broken Zenith wrote:

Anyway.

N. Jolly, are you sure you want me to take down the Synthesist Guide? It might be below your standards, but it's still helpful for a lot of people. In any case, wouldn't it be more direct to simply stop sharing the guide and then let me know? People would still be able to access it if they have it bookmarked.

I'm really torn because on the one hand, the Synth guide is ugly as hell. On the other hand, people still use it (I didn't know, I never go on there, so I don't know its activity).

Personally, I think I'd rather have it included as a cautionary example in someone else's full Summoner guide than in and of itself.

Ah, leave it up for now, I'll do something about it later. I've promised myself I'm not doing anything with it unless I get some donations though, so it's going to stay in its half formed garbage incarnation as it is now because I said so.

Upcoming guides are as follows:

Hexcrafter Magus (Fairy Tail)
Kineticist (Avatar)

I might do something else, maybe a brawler guide (thinking either street fighters or No More Heroes, although the Barb Guide might be changing to NMH), but the hexcrafter guide is going to take me a while, and I'm making no promises on anything else.

Ooo! Witch Hunter Robin for kineticists would look awesome.


Mark Seifter wrote:
Lessah wrote:

Indeed. And those rules are form the Monster Advancement table. Which are typically used when one mucks about by adding HD and creating new monsters.

Here are the other table I was talking about. Notice that this one does not give extra anything for the Small -> Medium gap. This table is typically used when a creature assumes a new size in-game by the use of magic or special powers.

(This means that an Ogre casting Alter Self into a Gnome would gain +4 Dex (2 from the spell and 2 from the size adjustment), -4 Str and -2 Con (both from the size adjustment.)

All effects and spells that I know of in Pathfinder (prior to this one) that sets a creatures size to a specific size (ie Beast Shape, the Change Shape SU ability) uses the second table, if the user is not already Small or Medium sized to start with.

All effects that increases a creatures size by a specific number of size categories (ie Enlarge Person, Righteous Might) specifies the stat gain, regardless of the original size.

Nothing in game that I can think of uses the first table, except during Monster Creation.

That is the source of my confusion - is this "normal way" really the table that nothing ingame (nothing "normal") uses?

Normal is shape-changing effects, polymorph subschool section. You get nothing for going from Small to Medium. +7 at level 3. That effect should have also said it was a polymorph effect. And missing descriptors are a pet peeve of mine, I'm so ashamed!

Ah well there's that then. I stand corrected.


Lessah wrote:

Indeed. And those rules are form the Monster Advancement table. Which are typically used when one mucks about by adding HD and creating new monsters.

Here are the other table I was talking about. Notice that this one does not give extra anything for the Small -> Medium gap. This table is typically used when a creature assumes a new size in-game by the use of magic or special powers.

(This means that an Ogre casting Alter Self into a Gnome would gain +4 Dex (2 from the spell and 2 from the size adjustment), -4 Str and -2 Con (both from the size adjustment.)

All effects and spells that I know of in Pathfinder (prior to this one) that sets a creatures size to a specific size (ie Beast Shape, the Change Shape SU ability) uses the second table, if the user is not already Small or Medium sized to start with.

All effects that increases a creatures size by a specific number of size categories (ie Enlarge Person, Righteous Might) specifies the stat gain, regardless of the original size.

Nothing in game that I can think of uses the first table, except during Monster Creation.

That is the source of my confusion - is this "normal way" really the table that nothing ingame (nothing "normal") uses?

I'd probably go with the monster advancement rules. The mauler archetype's battle form (su) doesn't list a spell that it's replicating a polymorph effect, like a druid's wild shape = beast shape, or lycanthrope's change shape = polymorph as per Universal Monster Rules, etc.


Is this a pre-written adventure like PFS scenarios or Adventure Paths? Or is this a home game where the GM made up his own content? If it's the former, I'm sure the triggers is probably only short term and can be avoided in future if it's an issue. If it's the latter and the GM is on purpose throwing triggering elements for %*$@s and giggles to freak a player out and some of you think it's an issue, then take a stand and tell the GM to back off on being a dick.


Monstrous Mount and Monstrous Mount Mastery.

If you want a flying mount (like a griffon) you'd need Monstrous Mount Mastery and it would fly half speed while mounted. Not considered a great feat chain. But for simple mount with pounce/other combat options for those with limited animal companion choices, can be worthwhile.


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Whirling Dervish swashbuckler archetype is the only thing I can think of.

They modify swashbuckler finesse to treat scimitars as a one-handed piercing weapon, otherwise can still finesse a dagger.

Dervish Dance (Ex): At 4th level, a whirling dervish can use her Dexterity modifier instead of her Strength modifier on melee damage rolls when using her swashbuckler finesse. She counts as having the Dervish Dance feat for purposes of meeting feat prerequisites.

Dex to damage with daggers, and the rest of the light or one-handed piercing weapons + scimitar that's listed from swashbuckler finesse.


Gah! Never even noticed that before!

I'm not sure why the FAQ staff response is "No reply required" since this seems like a case of not being that clear.


It's only once at creation.


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The attitude is getting toxic. Get him out and gone before your taste for your own game gets ruined and you scrap it altogether. Speaking from personal experience.

You've already talked to the guy, and he's still being an issue. If he can't learn to be sociable on his own or with others on non-game time, it isn't on you and the rest of your friends to teach him when you all made the effort to get together for a game. And that effort to get together gets harder and harder every year as folks for whatever reason get different priorities or free time, so you'd best appreciate now while you can without someone disrupting it for ***** and giggles.


First question: What social skill do you want? If at all? Just intimidate that's already a class skill? Diplomacy for peaceful interactions/gather information? Or just rely on Knowledge (local) instead of gather information? Bluff?

Str 18 (16+2 racial)
Dex 14
Con 14
Mix and match the mental stats as you please. I never watched Leverage so just going off the character wiki. I personally vote higher Int (12) for the skill points.

Feats
1) Improved Unarmed Strike (Bonus)
1) Combat Expertise = Brawler's Cunning allows you to forgo Int 13 prereq and this feat is a gateway to a lot of great maneuver feats.
1) Power Attack = Feat prereq and in general, great feat for melee characters.
With these three feats, Martial Flexibility can get you almost any of the improved combat maneuver feat that you need in a move action's notice. Improved Trip/Grapple/Dirty Trick are some of the ones I'd assume Eliot Spencer would take advantage of. If you don't feel like a maneuver, Catch Off-Guard would be a good one if you wanted the improvised weapons.
2) Pummeling Style (Bonus) = This feat makes unarmed attacks VERY feasible compared to how much others had to struggle in the past. Helps with DR because all the successful hits count as only 1 attack, so DR is applied only once. If you confirm even just one of the attacks as a crit, the ENTIRE set of successful hits counts as criticals and you add it all up for some excellent damage. If you tough it out for Pummeling Charge as level 8 bonus feat, you're basically pouncing.

Traits = If you got higher Int than Cha, I'd suggest getting Bruising Intellect (Int instead of Cha for Intimidate) or Clever Wordplay for any other social skill. PFS really rewards those that can socially interact. Not every scenario is about combat, unless that's your only goal for the character. But Spencer sounds like he's rather charming so I feel your character's abilities/skill set should back it up.

Equipment: ABSOLUTELY get Brawling ASAP. It's crazy how well it benefits a brawler.

I'm gonna have to binge watch this show for inspiration for my brawler too. Been relying too much on Captain America: The Winter Soldier. I should branch out.

But here's some useful links
The Wombo Combo has some useful feat combinations to use with Martial Flexibility.
The Brawler Guide written by Secret Wizard who wrote the Wombo Combo earlier thread, and the subsequent discussion thread.


Figure out their starting gold, then they can use that to purchase/scribe spells as per the rules in the magic chapter. They of course get the bonus two spells per level of wizard (as long as they were of the appropriate level) and whatever prestige class/archetype expanding the list. But no GM-granted freebies. Fighter starting at higher level isn't assumed to have found a masterwork sword anywhere.


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Kiiiinda rooting for the old wizard.


As of now, that's correct. There's no developer comments since the ACG came out that contradicts that. Supposedly there was a comment back during the playtest that investigators not using spell-trigger items was intentional. It's still being debated, and until the ACG errata/FAQ comes along, investigators got boned.


RumpinRufus wrote:
I think this FAQ (although technically about archetypes and not feats) should give a basis for Animal Ally counting as a the animal companion class feature...

Hmm yea I guess that FAQ and SKR's post here is basically saying "just go with it". Well that's pretty great.


Claxon wrote:

Take 5 levels in fighter, than a level in cavalier and take the Horse Master feat with your next available feat. This will give you a full progression horse animal companion.

Are you really wanting to focus on mounted combat? Unless you're going to use a lance and focus on mounted combat I don't understand what makes you want a mount.

Horse Master needs Expert Trainer, level 4 cavalier class feature.

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Ah right, I forgot that mask is in the head slot category. I'd agree that it couldn't act like a mask covering your features too much.


I'm not sure if the Animal Ally feat counts as one of the prerequisits for Monstrous Mount.

Monstrous Mount Prerequisits wrote:

Prerequisite(s): Handle Animal 4 ranks; Ride 4 ranks; divine bond (mount), hunter's bond (animal companion), or mount class feature with an effective druid level of 4.

Or for Boon Companion,

Boon Companion Prerequisitis wrote:
Prerequisites: Animal companion or familiar class feature.

Though that's assuming the sentence means: animal companion class feature or familiar class feature. And not: animal companion or familiar class feature.

Well those would be sticklers in PFS. I doubt anyone would argue too much in a home game.


ryric wrote:
D'oh. I misread your text as BAB +9, not 6 BAB and +9 Str. My bad.

No probs. I tend to get all wall-of-texty when I get long-winded.

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I doubt it since you'd be changing the item slot from the base item.


ryric wrote:
Protoman wrote:

Power Attack? No, typically you gotta apply the attack penalty and damage bonus yourself. Though sometimes in APs/Mods/scenarios where a specific creature is meant to always be power zttacking, they'd mention it in the tactics write up and sometimes mention that they did add the Power Attack effects in the stat block already.

In your example of the Arsinoitherium, it has a 28 Str, +14 gore (4d8+13). BAB +6 abd large size.
That does not have Power Attack in the stats.
Attack = 6 BAB +9 Str -1 size = 14.
Damage = The gore attack uses 1.5 x Strength because the gore is the Arsinoitherium's sole natural attack it possesses = +13.
If it was power attacking, if it's applying 1.5 x Str to its gore attack, it's basically a 2-handed weapon for power attack purposes.
+12 gore (4d8+19).

The stat blocks would typically have specific maneuver bonuses that are different from the default CMB in parenthesis after it. Should look closer to: CMB +16 (+18 to overrun); CMD 26 (30 vs. trip, 27 vs. overrun).
I'm unsure if powerful charge or trample benefits from power attack though. But if it does, the CMB would also suffer from the Power Attack penalty to hit.

Pedantic nitpick: Power Attack at BAB 9 should be at -3/+9 for this creature, so +11 gore(4d8+22).

Counter nitpick. According to the PRD, its Strength mod is +9 and its BAB is only +6 so Power Attack would only be -2 ATT/+6 DMG.


Protoman wrote:

The stat blocks would typically have specific maneuver bonuses that are different from the default CMB in parenthesis after it. Should look closer to: CMB +16 (+18 to overrun); CMD 26 (30 vs. trip, 27 vs. overrun).

Gah that should be CMD 28 vs Overrun.


Power Attack? No, typically you gotta apply the attack penalty and damage bonus yourself. Though sometimes in APs/Mods/scenarios where a specific creature is meant to always be power zttacking, they'd mention it in the tactics write up and sometimes mention that they did add the Power Attack effects in the stat block already.

In your example of the Arsinoitherium, it has a 28 Str, +14 gore (4d8+13). BAB +6 abd large size.
That does not have Power Attack in the stats.
Attack = 6 BAB +9 Str -1 size = 14.
Damage = The gore attack uses 1.5 x Strength because the gore is the Arsinoitherium's sole natural attack it possesses = +13.
If it was power attacking, if it's applying 1.5 x Str to its gore attack, it's basically a 2-handed weapon for power attack purposes.
+12 gore (4d8+19).

The stat blocks would typically have specific maneuver bonuses that are different from the default CMB in parenthesis after it. Should look closer to: CMB +16 (+18 to overrun); CMD 26 (30 vs. trip, 27 vs. overrun).
I'm unsure if powerful charge or trample benefits from power attack though. But if it does, the CMB would also suffer from the Power Attack penalty to hit.


JonathonWilder wrote:
What is fun about the Hat of Disguise and Sleeves of Many Garments is that they can be used together, though one more for flavor then actual mechanical effect. With these two items one can literally take on the appearance down to clothing, clothing being the one thing Hat of Disguise does not change.

Hat of Disguise

This apparently normal hat allows its wearer to alter her appearance as with a disguise self spell.

Disguise Self
You make yourself - including clothing, armor, weapons, and equipment - look different. You can seem 1 foot shorter or taller, thin, fat, or in between. You cannot change your creature type (although you can appear as another subtype). Otherwise, the extent of the apparent change is up to you. You could add or obscure a minor feature or look like an entirely different person or gender.


You'd need to pick a deity for the holy symbol so it's tempting for the party to keep it. If it's for Lamashtu or whomever that's gonna draw a LOT of ire, party is likely to get rid of it.

Magic Aura is a must. Having it actually be a beneficial magic item that secretly acts as a listenind device would be good. Like maybe a +1 Deflection Bonus to AC if worn on a neck slot or other useful item party would like/benefit from. Magic Aura to hide the divination effect for the enemies to keep tabs on them.

General party tactics I've seen is to rely on Detect Magic until they fail the checks before they'd expend a slot/spell on identify. So as long as you make it look like a beneficial item with a low check, party would most likely not look too deeply into things. Unless the cult is known for such practices, can't account for crazy paranoid players (like me). If it's not magical party would probably simply throw away or sell it (if made from valuable material) first chance they get.


No argument here that it'd be too crazy strong for universal situation skill bonuses. But I had a RAW argument before in the past with fellow player and figured I'd finally poll the forums for opinions.


I hate rolling. I made several of my non-luck-believing friends believe in my statements of bad luck.
In ONE character making session where we roll 4d6 7 times. Drop the lowest die in each roll and drop the lowest result (the 7th one), I've:
- Rolled two sets which were deemed too low to be considered anything more than a peasant. One set had a total modifier added up to a +1 and there wasn't any specifically low stats but the highest was only a 12. Still better than...
- The second set of rolls which had a final result two 3s! I actually rolled four 1's THREE times and dropped one of them for the final set.
- As an experiment/sad joke, I jokingly revered the value of each number on the D6's. 1 becomes 6, 2 becomes 5, 3 becomes 4, etc. THEN I started rolling "high" with things that would have been 15's and 18's before the experimental change.
- I ALWAYS have to play on a the 3rd set of dice, which thankfully ends up SOMEWHAT comparable to a lil bit higher than 25-point buy character, but still significantly lower than rest of the majority of the party. If it wasn't for the Rerolling rules in the Abilities chapter in the PHB in 3.5, I'd have been boned.

PHB 3.5 wrote:

REROLLING

If your scores are too low, you may scrap them and roll all six scores again. Your scores are considered too low if the sum of your modifiers (before adjustments because of race) is 0 or lower, or if your highest score is 13 or lower.

When we made the switch to Pathfinder, party threw me a bone when I continued to roll poorly for the first two sets, and we house-ruled that old Rerolling rule over. Anytime I GM, I do point-buy (20 pts thanks to the PFS standard). It's not a great feeling consistently beating the odds and do poorly and I'd hate for anyone in the party to look at some demigod stats someone else has and wonder, "Why am I even needed here?" They can feel that way if they made crappy character-design choices as I'm less sympathetic for those that feel roleplaying = non-optimized, but it's sucky when it's right out of the gate with ability score generation.


Komoda wrote:

I think that this would also apply to brawlers:

APG wrote:
A zen archer cannot use Rapid Shot or Manyshot when making a flurry of blows with his bow.

Two weapon fighting is an option you can use when taking the full attack action.

Rapid shot is an option you can use when taking the full attack action.

Just because they are both options associated with the full attack action doesn't mean that you can choose them both at the same time.

You can use the shield with Flurry because you can use a shield with flurry. Flurry also breaks the requirement of needing two weapons when gaining the benefit of more attacks associated with two weapon fighting. It is still questionable if you can gain those extra attacks with a single throw or if you need to throw the shield twice.

I'm with Graystone here that it needs to state it doesn't allow it.

Rapid Shot states it works when one makes a full-attack action with ranged weapons. The brawler can make brawler's flurry as a full-attack action which they can do by throwing the shield, a ranged weapon.

It isn't questionable if it's a single throw or not, it has to be a single throw as the returning shield ability specifically states it ricochets off previous targets to hit the next one, shield throw can be performed as part of brawler's flurry, and that the shield returns to the brawler at the end of his turn. The shield has to be in flight during all its potential attacks and not a blinkback belt+throwing shield situation.


Ah good. I'm mostly happy my reading comprehension isn't completely terrible and other folks got where my confusion came form.


So all that is against the giant subtype?
Bah I wish they took out the first "and" before sense motive to make the list look more natural. Really confused me thinking there's to parts with the second "and".


Check out the Personal tab. That's where languages from Linguistics go. Background tab is for starting race/ethnicity/Int mod.


It applies to both.
If for whatever reason brawler is full attacking but not flurrying, the returning shield would apply. For example, a brawler 10/fighter 1 (BAB +11/+6/+1) throws his shield at flying targets one and two with his first two attacks (+11/+6), then 5-foot steps up to a demon and power attacks two-handed a cold iron longsword with his 3rd attack (+1).

That same brawler 10/fighter 1 could also throw his shield for 5 attacks (+9/+9/+4/+4/-1).

It's just redundant wording so that one doesn't think you'd ONLY get to bounce shield off more than one target when flurrying.


Bump/Necro? I'm confused too.


You're able to benefit from flurry's "two-weapon fighting" extra attacks from your thrown shield while it's in flight.

Rapid Shot should work.


Valdimarian wrote:

I created a new thread about a similar question here, but I'll ask this here:

Returning shield says both "If a shield champion has additional attacks from a high base attack bonus, these additional attacks can be ricochets off an earlier target." AND "A shield champion can throw a shield as part of a brawler's flurry."

Does the first part about "additional attacks from a high base attack bonus" mean that you can ONLY get those iterative attacks from your BAB and the part about working with brawler's flurry is just repetitive? (IE: Brawler 5 / Fighter 1 gets two 'Returning shield' attacks and one 'offhand' for something else)

Alternately, does the part about it working with brawler's flurry actually mean that you get all your Two Weapon Fighting attacks as per brawler's flurry AND any extra from BAB (IE: Brawler 5 / Fighter 1 gets two iterative attacks and one TWF attack)

Aren't both those questions sort of asking the same thing?

If a shield champion is level 5, he's got throwing and returning shield and brawler's flurry and BAB of 5. Can flurry for +3/+3. He can use his thrown shield for both those attacks (it'll bounce off first target and hit second, but no consecutive attacks on same right; though bouncing off two or more targets repeatedly ought to work), 1 shield bash and 1 thrown, 1 shield bash and 1 unarmed/other brawler weapon, or 1 thrown shield and one unarmed/whatever else qualifying weapon.
If shield champion 6, or your example of shield champion 5/fighter 1, the BAB is +6/+1. So flurry is +4/+4/-1, and can be used with any combination of thrown shield, shield bash, or other melee brawler attack.
One thing to remember is that if you throw the shield, it comes back at end of your turn so you can't go throw shield THEN shield bash in the same turn.


Blakmane wrote:
Protoman wrote:

To Blakmane: I do admit I typically go the more conservative route when it comes to unclear rules, especially when I play in PFS or as a GM in general.

However for a free action to work, how the Shield Champion is currently written it needs a quickdraw light shield. The words/phrases "free action", "don", "equip", or "strap" doesn't appear any in the Shield Champion archetype section, so there isn't any reason reason to assume that, by default, a shield champion could don a shield as free action while catching it, as that would just be a houserule. The free action option only comes up from very specific shield from the APG (quickdraw shield) and Adventurer's Armory/Ultimate Combat (throwing shield).

I was specifically referring to the quickdraw shield in this case. Clearly you can't don a normal shield.

Thinking about it a bit more: can you talk as you catch the shield? I think that would be reasonable, which would suggest donning a quickdraw shield as you catch it is just as reasonable. I think you would need restrictive language to prevent you from doing so.

The not donning/strapping a heavy shield or simply a regular Core Rulebook shield as a free action is one of the issues I got with the Shield Champion, as it seems to run counter-intuitively/productively as written, and have to go to very specific sources for special shield modifications just to use the archetype more effectively.

I see speaking as a special case free action.

PRD wrote:

Speak

In general, speaking is a free action that you can perform even when it isn't your turn. Speaking more than a few sentences is generally beyond the limit of a free action.

That's the only listed free action that states you're allowed to do outside your own turn. All the others from the Combat chapter (i.e., cease concentration on a spell, drop an item, drop prone) I'd insist as a GM that they'd need to be done independent of other actions and only on their turn; such as to avoid cases of someone dropping prone while being shot at for +4 AC bonus vs ranged attacks, or quick draw a weapon in the middle of an opportunity attack.

I think one needs an ability that has permissive language to allow one to combine free actions with other actions, like with drawing a weapon as a free action while moving.


Well it is a change to the character. Makes sense for it to be recorded with the boon/XP tracking chronicle sheets. I'd still record the gp/PP costs on the ITS though.


Yes, the swashbuckler can retrain out an earlier feat for a feat he now qualifies for.

You shouldn't be able to use the free rebuild though, as you're specifically benefiting from level 2 benefits in order to retrain out your level 1 feat. While the actual retraining can be done before you get your 4th chronicle sheet. The retraining from Ultimate Campaign (the gp, PP costs) needs to be signed off by a GM on your new chronicle sheet/marked inventory tracking sheet. Well I think that last part is the case, can anyone correct/confirm that? I haven't done retraining before.


You can use maneuvers as part of flurry if the maneuver itself can be done in place of an attack (instead as a standard action). So you should be able to with Disarm, Sunder, and Trip.


To Blakmane: I do admit I typically go the more conservative route when it comes to unclear rules, especially when I play in PFS or as a GM in general.

However for a free action to work, how the Shield Champion is currently written it needs a quickdraw light shield. The words/phrases "free action", "don", "equip", or "strap" doesn't appear any in the Shield Champion archetype section, so there isn't any reason reason to assume that, by default, a shield champion could don a shield as free action while catching it, as that would just be a houserule. The free action option only comes up from very specific shield from the APG (quickdraw shield) and Adventurer's Armory/Ultimate Combat (throwing shield).

Searching "end of her turn" and "end of his turn" in PRD and d20pfsrd.com I really only find buff/ability durations ending at end of player's turn or player having to make a saving throw at end of his turn. Though with aquatic terrain, if one's in moving water, they get moved downstream at end of her turn.


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.
Shane LeRose wrote:

Your wall of text is intimidating. Just go through, step by step, a shield champs turn and point out where the rules fail to work as intended.

Step by step. Sure.

Level 5 Shield Champion with shield already equipped comes along. Runs into group of goblins with shortbows 20 feet in front of him. Shield Champion wins initiative.

Shield Champion has choice of melee or ranged. He's got brawler's flurry and throw/returning shield abilities. Decides on ranged.

Situation A - Heavy Shield Equipped:
Round 1: Shield Champion uses move action to unstrap the shield and standard action throws the shield. Hits 1 goblin. End of his turn the shield returns. His turn ends as the shield returning was the end of his turn. No move action left to strap his shield. Would benefit from the Brawler's AC bonus which wasn't active when he had shield strapped.
Round 2: Shield Champion, with shield already unstrapped from previous round, throws shield at goblins using brawler's flurry (full attack action), attacking two goblins. Shield returns at end of Shield Champion's turn and it remains unstrapped because no move action available.

Repeat until Shield Champion decides to move into melee or goblins are dead. Shield Champion doesn't get a chance to strap shield back on shield bonus to AC until after he decides to stop flurrying.

Situation B - Heavy Throwing Shield Equipped:
Round 1: Shield Champion uses free action to unstrap the shield (throwing shield ability) and full attacks throws shield with brawler's flurry. Hits 2 goblins. End of his turn the shield returns. His turn ends as the shield returning was the end of his turn. No move action left to strap his shield. Would benefit from the Brawler's AC bonus which wasn't active when he had shield strapped.

Repeat until Shield Champion decides to move into melee or goblins are dead. Shield Champion doesn't get a chance to strap shield back on shield bonus to AC until after he decides to stop flurrying.

Situation C - Quickdraw Light Throwing Shield Equipped:
Round 1: Shield Champion uses free action to unstrap the shield (throwing shield ability) and full attacks throws shield with brawler's flurry. Hits 2 goblins. End of his turn the shield returns. His turn ends as the shield returning was the end of his turn. No opportunity to use quickdraw shield's ability to be donned as a free action as that would be during someone else's turn. Would benefit from the Brawler's AC bonus which wasn't active when he had shield strapped.

Repeat until Shield Champion decides to move into melee or goblins are dead. Shield Champion doesn't get a chance to strap shield back on shield bonus to AC until after he decides to stop flurrying.

Situation D - Quickdraw Light Throwing Shield Equipped and I'm Misinterpreting: End of Her Turn:
Round 1: Shield Champion uses free action to unstrap the shield (throwing shield ability) and full attacks throws shield with brawler's flurry. Hits 2 goblins. End of his turn the shield returns. His turn doesn't end yet and the Shield Champion uses a free action to don his quickdraw light shield before his turn ends. He would only have benefitted from the Brawler's AC bonus when his shield was unstrapped and thrown for brawler's flurry.

Repeat until Shield Champion decides to move into melee or goblins are dead. Shield Champion is able to fully use ranged brawler's flurry and benefit from his shield bonus to AC during other characters' turns only when using a Quickdraw Light Throwing Shield in order to free action unstrap & don shield.


Shane LeRose wrote:

Your wall of text is intimidating. Just go through, step by step, a shield champs turn and point out where the rules fail to work as intended.

Obviously you should be able to gain the shield's AC bonus after you catch it at the end of your turn. Point out why that doesn't work and I'm sure people will FAQ this.

Yea sorry about the wall of text, I threw in the PRD references because when folks talked about quickdraw shields and and strapping/unstrapping shields in the past, the point gets lost when the wording gets only remembered instead of quoted.

Returning shield states the shield ricohets back to the shield champion at the end of her turn, so the shield champion shouldn't be able to do a free action to equip the shield again, as her turn ended and can only do free actions on her turn.
Or am I misinterpreting "end of turn" and can still do a free action after it?

*

I took it to mean that he was pretending that it was his plan all along. Much funnier that way.

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