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Cayden Cailean

Protoman's page

Goblin Squad Member. FullStarFullStar Pathfinder Society GM. 1,267 posts (1,276 including aliases). 1 review. No lists. No wishlists. 9 Pathfinder Society characters.


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Kineticist! It may not have the damage of a cross-blooded sorcerer, but the fire flavour is all natural, smoky, and all the time with the pyrokineticist!

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MikeMyler wrote:
Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:

Author Mike Myler is seriously THRILLED to hear it called "Batman-esque." :D

He squeeeed, and everything.


*sweeps cloak and disappears*

I'm excited! That cornerstone crossbow is gonna be awesome for the CRIMSON FALCON!

Cao Phen wrote:

With Self TK and Flame Jet, it says that all movement upwards cost double. Thinking 3-dimensional movement, going up while advancing forward would be 10-30-40-60, resulting in only advancing 20 feet forward, while increasing height by 20 feet, correct?

All options would be:
- 55 feet forward, 5 feet up.
- 40 feet forward, 10 feet up.
- 35 feet forward, 15 feet up.
- 20 feet forward, 20 feet up.
- 15 feet forward, 25 feet up.
- 10 feet forward, 25 feet up.
- 5 feet forward, 30 feet up.
- 0 feet forward, 30 feet up.

I'm gonna assume diagonally upward movement is similar to the fly spell and keep note of this FAQ.

FAQ wrote:

Fly: When a character or creature is flying, and that creature decides to ascend at a 45 degree angle, the rules states that it moves at half speed? Do the rules for diagonal square counting still apply when moving up diagonally in this way?

No. Since the game is generally assumed to be played in two dimensions, even when representing three dimensional combat, the rules for ascending are handled by the speed reduction instead of asking players and GMs to ascertain the diagonal vertical movement.

Basically don't worry about diagonally (1-2-1-2x movement cost) when moving up.

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Imbicatus mentioned in another thread of a Batman-esque crossbow.

Anyone willing to share details of such a thing? My vigilante would love to take advantage of such a device.

DM Sothal wrote:
Thomas Seitz wrote:
Well I was more interested in weapons than armor and wondrous items, Skeld.
Duellng Bokken


I've been wanting a bokken to use for PFS for forever!

My pyro picked up a necklace of adaptation for 9000 gp to breathe in his own smoke storm (stole idea from Ravingdork's character emporium). Ought to work great (and half the cost of a spindle but takes up neck slot) for earth kineticist just fine. Even helps against cloudkill which holding breath doesn't help.

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It does seem insane. When 5e first started had to get bunch of developer clarifications off Twitter and I thought that method sucked. Now it's gonna be the official way? Boo-urns.

Kazaan wrote:
Lune wrote:
Both turn off flurry of maneuvers. :(
Actually, they don't. FoM isn't contingent on wearing no armor (nor using Monk weapons) like FoB is.

Ultimate Combat had been errata'd that wearing armor prevents flurry of maneuvers.

You should really figure out what sort of equipment you'd want on your investigator all the time if you're thinking about having an 8 Strength.

Elven chain is still an option for brawling. More expensive, but still.

Cosmopolitan feat scores you 2 languages and 2 Int/Wis/Wis based skills as class skills for you.

Also check out the Ultimate Campaign retraining rules

Ultimate Campaign PRD wrote:

New Language

You can spend time to learn an additional language. It takes 20 days of training to gain a bonus language, and these days need not be consecutive. Each language requires a trainer who shares a language with you and knows the language you want to learn, or a book written in a language you know that explains the basics of the language you want to learn.

The new language does not count toward your maximum number of languages (racial languages + bonus languages from Intelligence + Linguistics ranks). You can train this way only a number of times equal to 1 + your Intelligence bonus.

Mark answered this question when I asked in his thread.

Mark Seifter wrote:
Protoman wrote:
Would a kineticist holding an overflowing rod or hollow rod or vril staff be unable to gather power as both hands/all appendages are no longer free?
Overflowing rod was intended to be one that you just carry on your person and not in hand to get passives, like rod of splendor. The other two do require being in hand, so you'll probably want gloves of storing or the like (which are pretty cheap compared to the two items in question); things that let you draw super-fast are also really helpful on that front.

Where's the gauntlet clarification from?

Ah. Double darn.

donato wrote:
Protoman wrote:

Can anyone pick up this Hell's Lawyer feat? Or is it limited to just the archetype or the cleric class?

My vigilante character with a Chelaxian lawyer noble social identity is very interested.

If you're referring to the Verify feat for Asmodean characters, it requires 1st-level spellcasting, LE alignment, and that you are a worshiper of Asmodeus.

That's the one that allows one to use Profession (barrister) for several social skills?

Darn. Avenger vigilante in PFS will never get that :( Warlock/zealot in a home game might though.

<sigh> yea. back to club usage for me.

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Xethik wrote:
Protoman wrote:

Can anyone pick up this Hell's Lawyer feat? Or is it limited to just the archetype or the cleric class?

My vigilante character with a Chelaxian lawyer noble social identity is very interested.

A fiendish twist on Daredevil, I see.

You know it! He's earrned renown throughout Cheliax with his social identity (I've even done a few PFS scenarios in wholly social identity).

I've been hoping to get a bokken for a potential samurai character for PFS and for home games. Home games I suppose I can use rules from Jade Regent book 5 for its bokken stats (basically a masterwork club but any feats or effects applying to a katana can apply to a bokken, I think, I don't have book in front of me). But for PFS the concept has been sort of boned unless I simply go masterwork club with no class or feat support for katana

However the Melee Tactics Toolbox has rules for wasters.

Archives of Nethys wrote:


Source Melee Tactics Toolbox pg. 21
Price 1 gp; Weight varies
Category Tools
A waster is a heavily weighted wooden practice weapon, used as a way to build endurance and expertise with a specific weapon. All wasters are designed to emulate a specific melee weapon (such as a kukri waster or a greatsword waster), and weigh twice as much as the weapons they emulate.

Using a waster to hone your combat techniques requires 1 hour of practice and a DC 15 combat maneuver check. If you succeed at the check, you gain a +2 circumstance bonus to your CMD against combat maneuvers targeting weapons you wield that match the waster your practiced with. This bonus lasts for 24 hours.

I'm wondering if the "All wasters are designed to emulate a specific melee weapon (such as a kukri waster or a greatsword waster), and weigh twice as much as the weapons they emulate" part of the text means that a greatsword waster can be used as a 2d6 wooden weapon? Or a katana waster can be a 1d8 wooden weapon?

Or is it just a cosmetic look and wasters aren't used as weapons at all but simply for the CMD bonus on specific weapons?

I suspect the latter, but I hope for something along the former.

Can anyone pick up this Hell's Lawyer feat? Or is it limited to just the archetype or the cleric class?

My vigilante character with a Chelaxian lawyer noble social identity is very interested.

Doesn't conductive weapon only work once a round? I'm not even sure if it works on bows (does it transfers the damage to ammunition or do you gotta enchant the ammo?) and if not, rapid shot would only work on like conductive thrown weapons, which can get pricy.

Imbicatus wrote:

Mark says Ranged Disarm and Ranged Trip are not fine.

Whoops. Good catch, Imbicatus!

The 1.1 version of the errata (from 1st edition to 3rd edition printing) had the full Crane Wing benefit of the text. PRD is currently wrong, d20pfsrd has the errata'd Wing and Riposte feat text posted.

zanbato13 wrote:
Protoman wrote:
Mark says Ranged Disarm and Ranged Trip is fine.
Now the question comes down to which blast damage is used for the feats.

I'd go with physical blasts since that's what deadly aim applies to. Deadly aim ain't used for the maneuvers but it's a prerequisite feat so I'd say the same limitation applies.

That's fine, but your original post is phrased that you believed there's no option besides Kinetic Fist for a melee touch attack and now you're stating all matter-of-fact that you weren't intending to talk about Kinetic Blade, despite not saying as such.

This is a joke right?
Like Chess Pwn said, Kinetic Blade.

Needing to use infusion on default blast probably would still prevent it from using it as a melee conductive weapon though.

In play experience with level 7 pyrokineticist that expanded into air with air blast. 20 Dex, 23 Con, I prefer using fire blast on things with high AC. Even against hardness where energy or physical blasts get reduced equally. I've yet to hit with a physical blast after couple tries and will stick with shooting energy blasts and hitting on a rolled '2'. Rest of the party prefers I hit, even with lower damage, rather than whiffing with the big blasts when we're all getting missiles in the face by a giant robot. Plus, the energy damage has been considered respectable by the rest of my PFS party members who are themselves well-optimized.

If I fight low AC targets I'll switch up.
If I fight magic immune targets (like golem) I'll use air or plasma.
Fire immunity? Switch.
Hardness? Energy. Never plasma because the hardness will reduce the bludgeoning and the fire damage at same time (effectively doubling effective damage reduction against my attack).
Fire resistance? Searing flame and fire.

Until then, high accuracy energy blasts are my best friend.

Can one 5 ft step after a ride the blast? Or is it considered movement?

Ride the blast doesn't work with form infusions that involve melee attacks or use a cone shape.

Oh right forgot about that FAQ. You might be better off going human for the skill point and bonus feat and favor class HP or 1/6 Extra Wild Talent feat. Keeps you versatile and might make your concept easier to attain.

GeneMemeScene wrote:
Protoman wrote:
The overflow bonus to damage is a "modifier to your kinetic blast's damage" which kinetic fist doesn't add.
Ah. So then it would also not add the half-orc's favored class bonus? That might break the character idea as I have it now...

Skip kinetic ascetic or fist.

Use half orc pyrokineticist (regular version) and kinetic blade and have access to ranged blasts. Get your favored class benefit for ranged and/or melee. Kinetic blade still benefits from the favored class bonus and fire's fury bonus to damage, and still have overflow's bonus to attack rolls. Kinetic fist doesn't have any of that.

For the blade, describe it as a gauntlet or something so it still looks like you're punching monsters. Things that are huge and literally unsafe to be next to, blast safely at range unless you're RPing your kineticist to be a reckless idiot.

A basic kineticist is better with melee as they can focus on using kinetic blade and do more damage and focus on Con for damage, whereas most of a kinetic ascetic's damage is either Strength of Dex (with agile amulet of mighty blows).

The overflow bonus to damage is a "modifier to your kinetic blast's damage" which kinetic fist doesn't add.

Nope. The burning isn't part of the maximized blast damage. Otherwise one could argue subsequent rounds of burning are also maximized.

Dekalinder wrote:

The last question remains

Edit: I realized i posed the third question wrong. Of course you can't "stack" more than one "on fire" condition. What I meant to ask is

3) If someone who is already "on fire" fails a save against one effect that would also put him "on fire", would he still take the immediate 1d6 extra fire damage?

Ah in that case, then definitely no more immediate 1d6 extra fire damage since they're already on fire and not "catching fire" again.

I've asked this during the playtest and didn't get an answer, but with book out maybe there'd be more of a chance.

What I've been doing:

1) Yes, there ought to be a reflex save to avoid it (thus the infusion having Ref negates stated). Much like how thundering infusion targets still gets a Fort save to avoid getting deafened despite it not stated except for "Fort negates". Though that's me being conservative. As a counter example, Alchemist's explosive bomb automatically sets target on fire if the bomb hits, so I might be wrong about getting to avoid catching on fire from burning infusion.
2) I believe the DC to extinguish the flame is the same as the DC to avoid the flames (so 10 + effective spell level + Con modifier); my reasoning is that the general catching on fire rules have DC 15 for both avoiding catching on fire and extinguishing the fire.
3) I'm gonna say yes, though he only takes the burn damage once, each successful blast attack doesn't cause extra burn damage. The frequent burnings would be important to refresh the Searing Flame utility wild talent (which lasts half your kineticist level) if one wants to keep fire resistance down for a long time.

What I'm curious about is: Does the target take the initial burning damage the first time he failed to avoid catching on fire during the kineticist's turn after burning infusion blast? And on subsequent rounds/turns, is the ongoing burning damage rolled on the kineticist's turn or on the target's turn after a failed saving throw to extinguish the fire?. If the ongoing burning damage is done on initial blast and on target's turn, wouldn't the target potentially be taking burning damage twice in the same round? Round 1: kineticist burning infusion blasts target. Target fails reflex save to avoid catching on fire, takes 1d6 burning damage after the blast damage. On target's turn in same round, fails saving throw to put out fire (is extinguishing a fire saving throw a specific action, like with alchemist's fire or explosive bomb needing a full round action?) and takes another 1d6 burning damage?

Bonus) Nope. Metakinesis needs gather power/supercharge or metakinetic master class feature to reduce metakinesis burn cost. If gonna be applying metamaguc effects on blasts, gonna have to pay for it with burn or action economy.

Red Mantis Initiate
Red Mantis Assassin

Besides the mask, swords, and colour scheme, they're not really about the fancy equipment.

Chess Pwn wrote:
what I'm not quite sure of is if you get anything from 2 handing your 1-handed blade other than increased power attack.

Unless one's playing an Elemental Annihilator (who'd get an 1.5xCon bonus) with devastating infusion, there's no benefit for two-handing a kinetic blade/whip except for two-handed Power Attack bonus.

It depends on the size the kineticist chooses upon forming the blade/whip (shape doesn't matter but it'll have the light/one-handed/no reach for Blade or reach for Whip properties).

First things first, Power Attack doesn't work with energy blade/whips because they're touch attacks (After writing the gunslinger guide I know you're aware of that, it's is just a reminder for that often forgotten ruling for Power Attack and Deadly Aim and for those that aren't actually aware of it).
For Light or One-Handed, one-handed Power Attack is fine. Two-Handed Power Attack is ok but obviously the blade/whip needs to be one-handed (as per Power Attack rules) as if it's light and finesseable, it wouldn't benefit from two-handed Power Attack.
And if the blade is one-handed, one uses Strength to hit as Weapon Finesse wouldn't apply to it.

For telekinetic blades/whips, I don't know if the held object needs to be considered light weapon size or one-handed size prior to activating the Blade/Whip talents, though.

Oooooo! Sequel to Black Waters? Awesome!

I don't know about anything specific on telekineticists, but page 12 specifically states that a readied blast can be used to counter spell any spell of equal or lower level that shares its descriptor. Telekinetic spells don't have any descriptors though except for the occasional [force]. Force blast ought to be able to counter force spells no issues (but expensive). Will need Mark or another developers input.

The FAQ implies that one would add +50% to the sum (example of 2d8 + level based bonus).

Plus increasing the number of damage dice by half isn't really going with what the Empower feat's benefit says:
"Benefit: All variable, numeric effects of an empowered spell are increased by half including bonuses to those dice rolls."
The total value of the initial dice roll and variables are increased by half, not "max potential damage is increased by half" by adding 50% more dice to roll.

Torbyne wrote:
The FAQ for gather power doesn't mention composite blasts but those are still covered by it, yeah?

The FAQ didn't mention composite blasts because those are already specifically "blast talents" and gather power works for any blasts.

The FAQ was to clear up the confusion from the wording of metakinesis, infusion, omnikinesis where they modify blasts (simple or composite) and gather power is applied to the total modified blast.

Thanks for the occult FAQs!

How long does a pyrokineticist's smoke storm wild talent last for? As long as a smokestick's 1 min duration? It and thundering infusion don't state a duration.

Thanks for this!

Torbyne wrote:
Rynjin wrote:
Torbyne wrote:
I was applying gather energy to metakinesis and infusions specialization to composite blast. Specialization cancels the composite cost. Super charge cancels the maximized. The end result is empower costing one burn at level 11. Yes, it isn't fully free until past where most games end. But as specialization scales you can add other infusions in without effecting cost.

Infusion Specialization only applies to Infusions, which Composite Blasts are not. So Infusion Spec doesn't come into play here.

Though it now occurs to me that would have been a good way to make most people happy.

Have Infusion Specialization be an actual specialization. As-in, you have to choose between:

-Infusion Specialization (reduces the cost of Infusions)

-Metakinetic Specialization (Reduces the cost of Metakinesis)

Those who want the big blasts get the big blasts, those who want the mostly at-will utility and control options get that too.

Then switch them? Infusion specialization to cover the cost of Metakinesis (based on Mark Seifter's posts that metakinesis is supposed to count as infusions for burn control but copyfitting twisted the meaning) and supercharge to cover composite? that means at level 11 you are dropping empowered maximized composite blasts for a single burn. with a con of 24(18 base +2 level +2 belt +2 size) and three burn to power defenses/elemental overflow you can pull off the trick 7 times a day.

Edit: I am an Air fan so Air's reach boosts that to 60' for free as well.

Metakinesis doesn't count as infusions. The copyfitting messed up the writing that metakinesis modifies blasts, not that it's an infusion of any sort. Only thing that reduces metakinesis is Gather Power or Metakinetic Master

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Would a kineticist holding an overflowing rod or hollow rod or vril staff be unable to gather power as both hands/all appendages are no longer free?

A fully updated Wang Fire made his debut in PFS this week. It seems appropriate that his first adventure post-playtest would be Returned to Sky where he's in Numeria and likely to face robots while his first actual adventure was Trial By Machines.

I was mighty tempted to just focus on fire with expanded element and get Eruption at level 7, but another PFS player gave me a good point that if I branch out I'd always be contributing in a worthwhile manner so I'll have to way a bit before I do some sweet, sweet ranged AoE. So I went with expanded element (air) as I can describe Wang Fire using heat to manipulate air molecules rather than simply air element matter. I thought sticking with earth and magma being usable with eruption would be cool, til I noticed the half damage for physical AoEs. Hardly seemed worth it so for AoEs I'll stick with energy. And extreme range + air's reach + ride the blast at level 12 for potential seeker game sounds awesome.

STATS: STR 12, DEX 20 (+2 belt, +2 size), CON 23 (belt +2, level up, +2 size), INT 12, WIS 10, CHA 7
HP = 87 (Toughness). Non-Lethal Damage 21 (3 burn). Lost some hit points due to me swapping out my favored class benefit for 1/6 Extra Wild Talent feat; there's so many low level wild talents that I had to skip that I wanted. The doubled bonus to damage and 2 size bonuses to physical stats of elemental overflow is a great update on feel the burn.
ARMOR CLASS: 21 = +1 Mithral chainshirt. Jingasa of the fortunate soldier (+1 luck).
SAVES = Fort +12, Ref +11, Will +3.
KINETIC DEFENSE = Searing Flesh 4 (3 burn). Bit of an mental adjustment for me. Less damage than previously but no save. Has chance on working on weapons but hard to beat past the hardness. NOTE: Check if the fire damage against a weapon would be halved as if it's an inanimate object as normal.

  • Fire Blast: +12 ranged touch, 4d6+9 fire. Fire Blade: +12 melee touch, 4d6+5 fire. Kinetic Blade/Whip were the only things to have been weakened since the playtest since they don't apply elemental overflow, but thankfully Fire's Fury exists so I end up doing as much damage as I did in the playtest.
  • Air Blast: +12 ranged vs AC, 4d6+14 bludgeoning. Air Blast: +12 melee vs AC, 4d6+10. [ooc]I'm actually looking forward to facing magic immune golems or fire immune devils to try this blast out.
  • Plasma Blast: +12 ranged vs AC, 8d6+20 half bludgeoning & half fire. Plasma Blade: +12 melee vs AC, 8d6+16 half bludgeoning & half fire. It's a small thing, but I appreciate the new wording for energy and physical and composite blast damage. Makes it a lot easier to figure out on the fly and write.
    TRAITS: Clever Wordplay (diplomacy). Cosmopolitan (Absalom). I don't need a trait for Acrobatics anymore! BEST CHANGE EVER!!!
    FEATS [LEVEL]: Point-Blank Shot [1]. Precise Shot [1]. Weapon Finesse [3]. Toughness [5]. Extra Wild Talent* (cold adaptation) [6]. Extra Wild Talent (extended range) [7].
    SKILLS [RANKS]: Acrobatics +14 [7]. Diplomacy +11 [7]. Escape Artist +12 (+15 to free slaves from bondage), [5]. Knowledge (Nature) +5 [1]. Linguistics +12 [7]. Perception +10 [7]. Profession (Sailor) +12 (+15 on Andoren vessels) [7]. Stealth +9 [1]. Use Magic Device +2 [1]
    WILD TALENTS: This is an advantage of updating a playtest character and which would be a problem for me when I ever do a new kineticist. I'm skipping the lower level tough choices of picking which infusion/utility wild talents and at which specific levels. Instead all I gotta figure out what level I qualify for what I want and start off with now.
  • Basic Pyrokinesis = I love this. For too long Wang Fire has to embarrassingly admit to not being able to provide enough of a controlled flame to light a campfire/torch, or provide illumination. NO MORE!!! The dark times are over!
  • Fan of Flame = Level 1 AOE!!! I'm debating if I'm gonna keep it after I get eruption, but it is a cheaper AoE so I can apply more metamagic or stronger substance infusion. Will have to play around with it some more before I finalize such a decision.
  • Fire's Fury = This is a nice damage bump for fire, and kinetic blade definitely could use the boost post-playtest. I'm thinking if I was playing through it from level 1 again, I might have to pick it before I even have elemental overload in order to have room for searing flame later and all the other utility talents I'd want without delaying them.
  • Burning Infusion = This is a nice bump from the playtest. +2 bonus to attack, DCs, and caster level checks with my fire blasts against someone on fire? It's practically the kineticist's version of a witch's evil eye on how great a debuff it is. I'm assuming the general kineticist saving throw DC is applied for both avoiding the set-on-fire effect and for the extinguishing fire (not simply DC 15 for regular catches on fire rules).
  • Searing Flame = Would be good for reducing common fire resistances. Especially with demons.
  • Kinetic Blade = No damage bonus from feel the burn/overlow anymore, but benefitting from haste is still good.
  • Flame Jet = No change here. It's still awesome.
  • Extra Wild Talent (Extended Range) = Took the human favored class benefit. I basically want as many wild talents as I can grab to try them all.
  • Basic Aerokinesis = I like it simply for the John Woo movie entrances where the wind is blowing against the protagonist, I envision Wang Fire benefiting from such a thing.
  • Extra Wild Talent (Heat Adaption) = Finally some fire resistance. Wang Fire can start setting himself on fire for dramatic entrances. Or use permanent flame ink for a permanent or extra torch.
    OTHER EQUIPMENT = Belt of physical might (Con, Dex) +2. Boots of the Cat. Cloak of resistance +1. Wayfinder + Ioun stone (clear spindle). Wand of CLW. Sleeves of many garments. Jingasa of the fortunate soldier. Necklace of Adaption. Underwater crossbow with bolts & grappling bolt. Silk rope. Courtiers outfit (black with red trimming). Cestii, 1 cold iron and 1 silver. I'm stealing Ravingdork's hobgoblin pyrokinecist idea of smoke storming enemies and having firesight talent and necklace of adaption to negate the smoke issues.
    VANITIES: Eagle Knight (diplomacy specialized). Tiller (+3 escape artist to free slaves). Ship ("Kindled Kami". +2 sailor checks. Place to stash stuff. Future Pathfinder lodge?). Captain (perform oratory specialized). Knighthood (awesome title and +2 diplomacy and knowledge nobility within Andoran and against Andoren subjects). Gray Corsair (+3 sailer checks while serving on Andoren vessel, which the Kindled Kami is declared as such).

    #6-20: Returned to Sky
    Level 7 Sir Knight Captain Wang Fire of the Eagle Knight Gray Corsairs; Captain of the Kindled Kami; and Tiller of the Bellflower Network.
    Level 9 Nagaji Bloodrager. Arcane bloodline.
    Level 9 Human Cleric (described as dwarf-like) with weasel familiar.
    Level 7 Human Bloatmage. Started off as wizard and level dip in crossblooded sorcerer (orc/dragon bloodlines). His damage with fire was WAY higher than mine.
    Level 9 Aasimar Bard.
    Level 10 Tiefling Alchemist.
    APL was exactly 8.5 for 7-11 scenario. We decided to play up because it was deemed party composition and level would stomp the lower tier.
    Oh gods! Why did we play up?!?

    Everything Started Off So Well...:
    Wang got to captain his ship up to Chesed. Apparently we fought off pirates as part of the descriptor of the journey (Awesome. The Kindled Kami poses as a merchant ship to bait pirates and slavers). When we got to Chesed and talked to the dwarven priest of Abadar I was able to use my feigned "International businessmen in an international business meeting pursuing international business" backstory that we're able to get a letter of recommendation from her to meet Ingret Jor, the dwarf with info on the Sky Key piece we're seeking. Also succeeded in getting the priest to help crusaders on their way to the Worldwound from getting ripped off by Chesed's unscrupulous merchants. The gnome tonic and salves merchant, another contact to help with Ingret, was also turned out to be a Twilight Talon agent who signalled to Wang Fire using Bellflower Network "farm" terminology. Got his letter for Ingret and coded warning that the Technic League were watching Ingret and that they had slaves with them. Wang Fire asked the rest of the party to please not kill any slaves we might engage with that day.
    At Jor's tavern we convinced her to tell us where the Sky Key is and we received her grandfather's journal detailing his adventure to find it. Right after that, the tavern door exploded inwards.

    And Then There Was A Firefight!!!:
    Beyond the smoky remains of the tavern entranceway were the Technic League demanding Ingret send out whatever information she has on technology or whatever it is the League is interested in. The message was mostly lost on us when the bloodrager raged and rushed outside into the smoke starting the fight.
    Outside were two Technic League mages, a magus and sorcerer, and two slaves with scimitars. While the slaves did piddly damage, they did impede the bloodrager enough to prevent him from getting to the magus and full attacking to his content. While I didn't want them killed, they were getting in the way for several rounds to the magus or simply out of the tavern that they were becoming a threat simply for being obstacles, I relented and resorted to attacking them for hopefully minimal damage to either scare them off or knock them unconscious.
    The bloodrager learned mortality that day and what bastards magi can be with a monofilament whip (or simply with a whip in general) and spell combat and spellstrike. True Strike + trip combo (inadvertently suggested by the bard PC to the GM. Thankfully the GM never did the true strike + disarm idea), critical shocking grasp with critical strike arcana and shocking grasp again. Due to his tactics, the slaves' positioning, and the magus' whip, the magus was getting his full hasted number of attacks in while the bloodrager was stuck moving and attacking once per round for significant damage. Both the bloodrager and the magus had blur on which extended their lives, but it was close between the two as the bloodrager insisted he wanted to end the magus's life and we should focus elsewhere: the sorcerer.
    The sorcerer had casted haste for their side and was flying and throwing fireballs. The alchemist was focused on throwing bombs at her, the bloatmage readied to cast spells when the sorcerer did to force concentration checks, the cleric tried keeping the bloodrager alive, the bard was busy buffing the party and keeping Ingret alive from area attacks, and Wang tried to knock the slaves out with minimal fire yelling at them to "Stay the hell down, already!"
    The sorcerer was brought down and the party looked on at the bloodrager/magus duel. We all agreed to delay after the bloodrager so he can finish the fight. He finally arranged himself 3 attacks with haste from his greater arcane bloodrage -- and all three missed due to blur's 20% miss chance. We sadly tried to attack the magus right afterwards but he lived long enough to dimension door away to escape. The bloodrager was rather put out by that.

    Sadly Wang Fire didn't get to do much. Simply using the reduced damage of his fire blade to try and knock out the slaves without killing them.
    We made our way to the Sky Key site and had to get past some mixed up gravity rooms with laser turrets. Cleric invested in bunch of wands and scrolls with his prestige points and obscuring mist the rooms so we can get past. Wang Fire only contributed by flame jetting his way through the loopy random gravity and applying a grappling hook and rope to the doorway we needed for the rest of the party to advance.
    We descended down the technological ruins into some caverns, and ran into...

    All Organic Organisms To Be Incinerated:
    A freakin' myrmidon robot.
    Obviously it must have hardness.
    With a laser eye.
    Laser lashes with 20 foot reach.
    Can see invisible. (Ripnugget, the bloatmage faerie learned about the 20 ft reach and see invisibility the hard way when it tried to sneak past)
    And missiles. So many missiles. 30 ft radius explosions that do 6d6 fire and 6d6 bludgeoning damage (Reflex DC 18 for half). Started combat off with a warning to get off his yard (or whatever the grumpy ancient robot equivalent is) and a missile to our faces. And initiative!
    Second Rocket.
    The party had to scramble to get into position to defend against the large, flying robot (20 ft cavern ceiling) and attack it past a narrow hall (really messed up ranged shots).
    Bloodrager tries to move away from the others and out of "fireball formation" (little did we know of the missiles' explosive radius at the time) and starts casting enlarge person. Stupid 1 round casting times.
    Bloatmage casted haste and moved away and to sent out an invisible Ripnugget armed with a wand forward to harry the robot with invisible ranged magic attacks. That's when we all learned about the 20 ft reach and invisibility being useless against this thing.
    Bard started inspiring courage and casted Good Hope (+2 attack, weapon damage, saves, and skills).
    Cleric channeled to heal everyone for 5d6. Rolled an 11. Since the alchemist and Wang had fire resistance and good reflexes, that actually tops them up.
    Alchemist started off the counter attack with fast bombs.
    Wang goes last due to crappy initiative roll. No clear shot with a 5 ft step so had to move. Thankfully Internal Buffer exists now so he can still open up with an empowered extended range fire blast without having to take extra burn. I'm assuming the thing has hardness and no fire resistance, so I'd rather blast the thing's touch AC and have hardness shave off my damage once, rather than using air or plasma blast against AC. The hardness would have reduced the bludgeoning AND the fire damage each for plasma.. NATURAL 20. Easy confirmation! 50 damage with the modifiers, empowered to a 75.
    Third rocket. Bloatmage is brought down to 0 and slinks off around a far corner to lick his wounds and wait for his familiar to come back (from beyond the front lines) with the wand of infernal healing to tend to him and is out of the fight for good. The bloodrager enlarges himself but doesn't want his remaining move action to be move close to robot, trigger AoO from 20 ft, and lose more of his already half-gone HP. More bombs, another empowered fire blast. Cleric casts wall of stone from a scroll to cover up the tunnel between us and robot.
    Robot moves to a side tunnel and shoots a 4th rocket. Everyone damaged but the bloatmage and familiar hiding far away in the caverns. Alchemist only gets one bomb off due to having to move for a clear shot while Wang only needed 5 foot step and was able to empower blast. Bard casts jester jaunt on the bloodrager and teleports him next to the robot. Bloodrager finally gets to full attack with his adamatine earthbreaker and finally downs the robot. We grab the Sky Key from the robot's chest and we hightail it out of Numeria.
    Post-Game, the GM tells us that regular high tier had 2 of those robots in the end. 4 player adjustment was 1 robot with suped up forcefield for extra hit points. The first encounter with the magus and sorcerer took so long that we skipped the optional encounter, bunch of fabricator robots. While I would have enjoyed using an empowered fan of flames against several robots, the fight probably would have tapped out party resources a little much I think.

    That last fight was terrifying for the party. It didn't do much to showcase the kineticist except for it being able to take a beating when Con focused. Everyone was pretty happy how much damage the kineticist did though, as only the alchemist and kineticist were able to attack it without risking unexpected death from AoOs. I sure as heck wasn't gonna risk tumbling in for hasted kinetic blade attacks. The bloodrager, alchemist, and bloatmage absolutely does more damage. But the bloodrager is limited to his melee attacks and cramped quarters, flying targets, magus with combat maneuvers severely limited his damage potential this scenario. The alchemist was fine all day; totally had enough bombs to last him 7-10 rounds of hasted throwing. The bloatmage player is one of the vocal players in the lodge about how insufficient or low the damage the kineticist deals out, but his overspecialization for damage tanked his saving throws and didn't have enough hit points to last head to head with something way above our CR for very long and had to sit out almost the entirety of the last fight; which was the very opposite of what happened to the kineticist who got to attack every round and survive every hit (even with the nonlethal damage lowering his effective "I'm still conscious" hit points total).

    Almost EVERTHING got a significant boost. Number of wild talents. Number of skill points. ACROBATICS!!! <3 Fire blast damage with Fire's Fury. Elemental overflow being awesome with doubled the playtest's Feel the Burn damage bonus and the size bonuses at 3 burn at level 6? Put a bonus into Con and the nonlethal damage from 2 burn to 3 burn is basically balanced out with the extra HP, but still get the damage boost from Con, and AC+Reflex+Initiative+Attack+Skills+CMD boost from Dex, AND 5% x # of burn = chance to ignore crit/sneak attack; totally worth it!
    Burn is still as harsh as the playtest version, but there's stronger benefits for accepting it now compared to the playtest: elemental overflow so much stronger than feel the burn and bunch of utility talents last longer with one burn. Playing through the class, it's pretty easy to avoid taking on more burn than needed, especially with internal buffer thrown into the mix of options. I've usually never had to go beyond the burn I spent on my defensive talent or whatever else long-term buff a burn would grant me. I only ever go over when I need to spend a move action beyond a 5 ft in order to still empower.
    It's great that I don't have to choose between form or substance infusions for specialization anymore. Infusion specialization is a godsend for opening up my combat options at each level I get it. Wang Fire is level 8 with smoke storm now, so I plan on benefiting more from burning infusion and extended range at the same time as empower to get some battlefield control with smoke screens. Wang Fire might start setting himself on fire just to have an open flame source for smoke to centre on himself. Burning infusion with eruption at level 9 to increase my odds of burning someone in the distance by targeting multiple foes and smoke storm next round for hijinks.

    Overall, I'm very happy with the final kineticist. Sir Knight Captain Wang Fire!!! is currently my highest level character in PFS and that happened while he was still in the playtest version. The APG is what convinced me to get off the 4th Edition train and convince my friends to jump on the Pathfinder tracks, and the Occult Adventures book reminds me of what I felt and saw when I first looked at the APG. Great classes that I wanna try because just reading the initial description and actual mechanics just makes me think up character ideas by the truckload. And new rules sets that are doing something different that I would wanna try out.

    Occult Adventures is finally out and Wang Fire got updated and looking sweet.
    I was fortunate enough to be in the middle of level 7 when it happened so I figured I'd post a report of the same level in pre and post-update to show off some of the differences.
    PLUS these still-open-to-post playtest forums have been a nice place to consolidate my thoughts and views of the kineticist without having to get into debates about how little damage a kineticist does. I know it's lower than a lot of other classes, but I do alright and I have fun doing it; that matters more to me than damage any day.


    LEVEL 7! I can finally get another element and engage with fire immune/resistant stuff on equal footing. I picked Earth to try out since I know it'll only be the one time I'll be playing before the update, might as well get the feel if I liked Earth or not. The expanded defense talent (flesh of stone) looked mighty tempting.

    STATS: STR 12, DEX 18 (+2 belt), CON 21 (belt +2, level up), INT 12, WIS 10, CHA 7
    HP = 87 (favoured class benefit, Toughness). Non-Lethal Damage 14 (2 burn). FIERY HECK! Wang is tough as nails!
    ARMOR CLASS: 20 = +1 Mithral chainshirt. Jingasa of the fortunate soldier (+1 luck).
    SAVES = Fort +11, Ref +10, Will +5.
    KINETIC DEFENSE = Searing Flesh 3d6 (2 burn). SIZZLE!

  • Fire Blast: +11 ranged touch, 4d6+4 fire
  • Earth Blast: +11 ranged vs AC, 4d6+11 bludgeoning. Gonna be honest, Wang would feel embarrassed suddenly switching up to earth blasts. Will be using earth blade instead shaped like a cestus/gauntlet if a physical attack is ever needed.
  • Magma Blast: +11 ranged vs AC, 4d6+9 bludgeoning and 4d6+4 fire and +2 for Feel the Burn (I'm not sure which component of the blast it's suppose to modify).
    TRAITS: Reckless. Clever Wordplay (diplomacy)
    FEATS: Point-Blank Shot. Precise Shot. Weapon Finesse. Toughness. Iron Will - Meh, why not? Don't feel like getting Weapon Focus, and Will saves could use a boost.
    SKILLS [RANKS]: Acrobatics +15 [7], Diplomacy +11 [7], Escape Artist +8 [1], Knowledge (Nature) +5 [1], Perception +10 [7], Profession (Sailor) +8 [3], Stealth +8 [1] Use Magic Device +2 [1].
    WILD TALENTS: Kinetic Blade. Extended Range. Fire Sculptor. Flame Jet. Expanded Element (Earth).
    OTHER EQUIPMENT = Belt of physical might (Con, Dex) +2. Boots of the Cat. Cloak of resistance +1. Wayfinder + Ioun stone (clear spindle). Wand of CLW. Sleeves of many garments. Jingasa of the fortunate soldier. Underwater crossbow with bolts & grappling bolt. Silk rope. Courtiers outfit; red, of course. Cestii, 1 cold iron and 1 silver. I learned from a previous scenario with a different character a quickened scorching ray, one of which crits, would kill a character pretty quick even with loads of HP. So I'm gonna negate that crit first chance I get with the jingasa of the fortunate soldier.
    VANITIES: Eagle Knight (diplomacy specialized). Tiller (+3 escape artist to free slaves). Ship (+2 sailor checks).
    #3-10: The Immortal Conundrum

    Level 7 Lance Corporal Wang Fire!!! (That Eagle Knight vanity/rank actually mattered in the scenario).
    Level 7 Nagaji Bloodrager. Arcane bloodline.
    Level 6 Irrisen Sorcerer. Arboreal bloodline. Somehow and hilariously, the nervous Irrisen befriended the Ulfen amazon witch-slayer.
    Level 7 Kyra Pregen

    Everyone Was Kung Fu Fighting But Wang Fire. He Simply Got Beat Up:
    After some pleasant and little bit awkward dinner conversation, Fire and Company had to foil an assassination plot against a Thuvian ambassador at the Thuvian Embassy in Absalom.
    Bloodrager got impeded by underlings, so it was down to Wang and the sorcerer and Kyra to keep the pressure on the head assassin before he can kill the almost-dead ambassador.
    Wang didn't come to the party armed (he had blasts, come on!) and had to fight against head assassin who had the Catch Off-Guard feat. After being flat-footed and sneak attacked the whole fight against him, Wang is keeping a pair of cestii on his person at all times from now on. I also wanted to try out earth blast/blade. As usual I rolled poorly and whiffed the attacks for several rounds. I finally gave up and stuck with fire and the fight went a lot smoother. Lesson learned: physical blasts are mostly for fire immune and inanimate objects (Well physical blades on inanimate objects. Apparently ranged attacks do half damage on objects); stick with fire otherwise (at my current level, that even applies to even with robots with hardness). 7 extra points of damage ain't worth me missing half the time. Searing flesh came into play when a weakened underling mook attacked me with an unarmed strike and dying from the subsequent fire damage from failed saving throws.

    Wang Fire with high acrobatics had an easy time jumping from pole to collapsing pole in the Air room and the flame jet allowed him to get the jewel in the ceiling of the Fire room easy enough but he had nothing to protect from the explosion of fire except for Reflexes. Combat in the Earth room was straight forward, blast/blade earth elementals til they fall down while fighting in tight hallway or small room.

    Fire in the Library:
    We finally get to the last encounter and fight 2 hieracosphinx (essentially weird griffons) in a room full of tall bookshelves protected by small walls of force.
    First round: Wang flame jets to the top of one of the bookshelves for better range attack potential (and look cool and awesome throughout the fight). Sorcerer buffs the party with haste. Bloodrager preps up with casting enlarge person.
    One of the hieracosphinx charge pounces on Wang on top of the bookshelves and does a decent amount of damage. I was ecstatic: with tons of HP I was confident I can survive a few rounds of full-attacks from these things; best of all, through poor positioning and bunch of GM credit, this is the first time I'm actually benefiting from haste for full-attacking in melee. That hieracosphinx charging at me just shortened its remaining lifespan! Especially since it was using natural attacks and every time it hit, it risks 3d6 fire damage from searing flesh (reflex negates) Two rounds of full attacking each other and one dead hieracosphinx and a battered Wang are all that remained on top of the bookshelf.
    The other hieracosphinx was engaged with the enlarged bloodrager but utilizing its Flyby Attack feat. Some fire blasts and a power attacking raging angry bloodrager and ice magic from the sorcerer brought the hieracosphinx down.
    Not wanting to leave too much obvious evidence that someone was down here stealing from the Thuvians, Wang placed one unconscious (we decided not to kill them simply for defending their charges) suggestively on top of the other unconscious hieracosphinx so that anyone that finds them can come to their own conclusions on why they were asleep and exhausted.

    For a final time playing the playtest version I was pretty satisfied with kineticist performance. Proper trait investment is needed for potential social stuff for a kineticist but that's no different than a ranger or fighter. Such characters are more of a combat and utility (well less fighter than the others) purposes.
    Damage was solid. Empowered fire 4d6+4 was doing average of 27. Not high, but accuracy was way better than empowered earth (4d6+11 average of 37.5) so I feel that overall fire wins out for me when dealing with things nonresistant or immune to fire. DR or monsters with hardness, I'll still stick with fire. Obviously damage is way lower than other classes, but I hit almost all the time and no one feels that the kineticist didn't contribute when everyone else is whiffing their attack rolls or when monster makes their saving throws.
    Hasted full attacks for two 4d6+4 fire blade attacks was awesome. Melee was definitely more powerful than ranged (when battle positioning allows it) but I'm personally cool with that. I'm also favouring the option of fighting defensively with touch attack kinetic blades; attack rolls take a drop but still acceptable vs touch AC and thanks to acrobatics, my AC and touch AC get a nice boost. Too bad fighting defensively doesn't work with spell-like abilities.
    Flame jet was still the winner wild talent for me here. At will "flight" is proving its usefulness again and again, and I'm loving every moment of it when combined with Boots of the Cat. I wanted more useful wild talents though, especially a low level AoE.
    At level 7 searing flesh gets pretty decent at only 2 burn investment for 3d6. Absolutely contributes to my fire output when dealing with full-attacking natural weapon monsters. I've taken to seeing searing flesh as a situational passive offense tactic rather than a defensive feature; things don't be less inclined to attack me, but I at least get a chance of ending combat sooner.
    The Immortal Conundrum probably isn't the best scenario to showcase the kineticist abilities (that would be Tapestry's Toil as a great scenario for the size of maps and the variety of terrain involved) what with the first third of the scenario consisting of a fancy dinner involving Absalom's foreign dignitaries. But it had interesting combatants and skill challenges and lessons. 1) Always stay armed with a cestus or have one nearby. 2) Remember to fight defensively in melee; ranged tactic of hiding behind tanks don't fly anymore. 3) Watch out for dispel magic while flame jetting about. 4) Pick up some languages, if Kyra hadn't had a comprehend languages scroll, would have been annoying for some stuff in the scenario.

    Torbyne wrote:
    Taenia wrote:

    Keep in mind that neither Kinetic Whip or Blade add elemental overflow damage.

    Burn is your nova option so be careful on when and how you use it. I like the initial to set up defenses and throw in buffer to power overflow and then save anything for emergencies. I remember needing to kill a swarm on my lvl 6 Kineticist and using burn each round to empower my AoE attack because no one else could damage the swarm.

    Err.. The basic simple blast does full damage to swarms, no need for burn to do it.

    I missed that overflow didnt stack in melee though. poop. two burn and a melee risk to deal moderate damage in a full attack without any rider effects. I think i'll build up a comparison ranged character to see what infusions they can manage. my basic assumption is a lot more since they are more likely to use Gather Energy to boost range and infusion specialization to add substances.

    He probably meant during the playtest where simple blasts didn't do anything to swarms.

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