|Paizo Pathfinder® Paizo Games|
|About Paizo Messageboards News Paizo Blog Help/FAQ|
I got no idea either if we're arguing or overclarifying the same thing but different aspects of the issue.
But I'm kinda in the no kinetic blade while raging camp. I see it as a SLA that requires concentration even without the concentration check, just like casting spell or regular kinetic blast when not threatened.
Modifying blast with an infusion or metakinesis (also Su) doesn't affect concentration at all (besides blade/whip not needing a casting defensively concentration check to avoid AoO). But in other cases of requiring concentration checks simply to activate a SLA, such as grapple, to use kinetic blade would still require a concentration check.
the Queen's Raven wrote:
Where does it state infusions are supernatural.
Next to the Infusion class feature.
Helpful Harry wrote:
Kinetic Blast is a spell like ability but infusions are supernatural.
Just in case one thinks an infused kinetic blast is a supernatural ability and no longer a SLA (this has been brought up before in forums), it's not. Infusions is a supernatural class feature that allows one to modify the kineticist's spell-like ability kinetic blast class feature. An infused kinetic blast is still a spell-like ability.
It's still a spell-like ability, even though it doesn't get activated and used like one. It gets activated as part of an attack/full-attack/charge action and doesn't provoke because it's part of another action rather than an action itself, unlike a regular SLA typically requiring a standard action.
If it was a grapple situation, would require a concentration check.
Deadbeat Doom wrote:
No. You'd have to modify the blast normally with the kinetic blade/whip infusion when making the attack. But conductive weapons get activated "When the wielder makes a successful attack of the appropriate type, he may choose to expend two uses of his magical ability to channel it through the weapon to the struck opponent, which suffers the effects of both the weapon attack and the special ability." The wielder of the conductive weapon activates the conductive ability after the attack is made, not actually getting the chance to actually apply the infusion because the attack already happened.
The elemental annihilator's regular kinetic blast would be just like a normal kineticist's kinetic blast, number D6's based on odd levels of kineticist levels. If its a physical blast, then adds full Con modifier. If the elemental annihilator picks up an energy blast, then it only uses half the Con modifier.
When using devastating infusion with a physical blast, the damage is 1d8+Con modifier. If the devastating infusion melee blade is set as a light weapon, can be finessed. If the devastating infusion melee blade is set as a one-handed you can two-hand it for 1d8 + 1.5xCon damage but it can't be finessed by default and the annihilator has to use strength modifier to attack with it.
Yea the annihilator and devastating infusion exceptions got mentioned several times in this thread.
Kaliel Windstorm wrote:
Check out this thread. Kineticists can can pull in elemental matter through the Ethereal or use ambient elemental matter from the surrounding environment. In regular conditions, plenty of ambient air around; in a vacuum, pull it in from another plane.
Damn. I love all that! Hope they're PFS legal later to use with my brawler!
I rebuilt a playtest vigilante into a vigilante with the Blinded Blade Style feats in PFS. Very fun and useful for parties that need help zeroing in on invisible creatures or if ever stuck in a deeper darkness situation. Wish that trait existed back then, would have saved myself a feat instead of retraining an earlier feat to get Blinded Competence earlier than normal build progression would have allowed.
I picked up Headband of the Wolf to extend Blinded Blade Style's scent range by another 10 ft, or just 10 ft on its own. Scent isn't as useful as blindsight most times, but I find it useful when not blinded, or if something is bypassing blindsight somehow (new spells, feats, class features in each new book comes up with new stuff), still got an option.
If you're hoping to use concealment against your enemies, darkness might not cut it, since so many creatures got darkvision. Eversmoking bottle for 5,000 gp might be a better option since only very specific creatures can see through smoke (I think fire elementals?). More and more PFS players are equipping themselves with Goz Masks so they won't have too many issues, but if a party doesn't, maybe don't use it unless your party wants you to in order to even playing field (similar to tactics with obscuring mist).
Unarmed Fighter archetype or Master of Many Style Monk archetype ignores the prereqs of their bonus Style feat at first level.
Well if PFS-future proofing is an issue, or even if not since it's required for any alchemical ammunition discount, then Gunsmithing feat is also gonna be necessary which cuts into more of the trench fighter's feats.
If considering monk levels, far strike monk is a great choice for its bonus feat choices.
If you use an AoE form infusion with the unraveling infusion, then yea, all the creatures hit (and that you bypassed SR if applicable) get whammied by targeted dispel.
Unraveling infusion specifically states hitting foes, so you'd only be able to target creatures for the targeted dispel affect, not the usual dispel magic choice of "one object, creature, or spell". This is a trade-off with the potentially at-will targeted dispel (against creatures) effect of unraveling kinetic blasts.
That +5 bonus is only for the grappler's CMB check to maintain the hold. It doesn't apply to his CMB outside of maintaining the grapple or to his CMD.
Lol totally didn't notice it!
Just to double check on the abundant ammunition spell idea: You know that abundant ammunition got errata'd to not work with special material ammo, alchemical cartridges, or bullets with weapon blanches applied, right?
If you're gonna use the boon for a cool mount, maybe spellscar drifter cavalier would be better than inquisitor levels, unless you really want the spells + bane.
I believe Brawler with martial flexibility.
Infusions are a supernatural class feature allowing one to even modify kinetic blasts, a spell-like ability. In other words, infused kinetic blasts are spell-like abilities simply modified by a supernatural ability. The kinetic blast is still a spell-like ability, not a supernatural one. For example, if a monster had a supernatural ability to apply a metamagic feat to a spell-like ability, the SLA doesn't suddenly become a supernatural ability and gain all the benefits of being a supernatural ability such as avoiding AoOs or being used in a grapple automatically (unless that metamagic feat allowed such specific benefits, of course).
Kinetic blade had to specifically state that it's part of another action and doesn't provoke "any additional attacks of opportunities". It only refers to provoking AoOs, not no longer being an SLA and not needing to make concentration checks when other SLAs are required to.
Grappling rules also don't care what action is being used to perform/cast the spell/SLA. Swift, immediate, standard, full-round, 1 round, as its own action, as part of another action. They all require concentration checks. Nothing in kinetic blade/whip or even kinetic fist states they avoid that concentration check. This specific concentration check is still to even perform/cast the spell/SLA. If trying to simply avoid AoO, that's a separate casting defensively check (which kinetic blade doesn't need thanks to its rules text).
Would it be awesome if a kineticist can use the melee infusions in a grapple? Heck yea! But it's not written that way to support that so far in the grapple rules + kinetic blade text.
Texas Snyper wrote:
I wasn't talking about provoking for casting a kinetic blade SLA in a grapple. Of course it won't provoke. I'm saying the concentration check is needed to even cast it at all.
For the grappling, the "part of another action" never changed the fact that it's a spell-like ability, and the grappling rules specifically state "a grappled character who attempts to cast a spell or use a spell-like ability must make a concentration check (DC 10 + grappler's CMB + spell level), or lose the spell." I see that as meaning one still has to make the concentration check to use kinetic blade. For example, a swift/immediate action spell or SLA doesn't provoke an AOO normally and there might be abilities that allow one to not provoke with a spell/SLA, but would still have to make a concentration check to use it in a grapple (like with liberating command).
I usually never bothered trying to kinetic blade since the concentration check DC usually much higher than my bonus, til I reached up to 28-32 Constituon bonus but even then the things that bothered grappling me had such high strength and CMB and size that it usually wasn't worth the wasted round's effort and should have punched with cestus or down thing. My PFS pyro's searing flesh defensive talent made grappling him a big loss in HP for the grappler's turn that it balanced out and he never stayed grappled long, so I recommend any kineticist to have a melee weapon to pull out or a cestus in hand to use while grappled.
Oh I was totally tempted by the far strike monk. But I decided to forgo it because I wanted to get to gunslinger 5 ASAP to get into Shieldmarshal prestige class faster, and didn't wanna lose the BAB, wanted a neutral or chaotic alignment for the fun-loving gambler character, and still get the level 7 deeds at level 9 with Shieldmarhsal's gunmarshal class feature, needed the favoured class benefit for extra skill points for prestige class prereqs AND other skills I wanted for the character. I got a policy of trying to have as much fun with a build as soon as possible in PFS rather than delaying things for it to be fun later and it only being short-lived with the level-cap for the scenarios and I wanted the prestige class more than anything for my character idea. And in general I don't like multiclassing when I don't absolutely need to. If I can do everything I need with one class I'd rather go that way.
My PFS maverick pistoler gunslinger just hit level 4 with Weapon Focus (pepperbox), Quick Draw, Gun Twirling, and Deadly Aim. Likely to get Rapid Reload at level 5 as combat is lasting a lot longer than in lower levels. The character does fine with current feats and always mixing it up throwing wooden stakes (they're free!), fighting and threatening unarmed, or quick drawing a sword instead of reloading.
The character is also an experiment on still being cowboy-like without all the other annoyingness of gunslingers dominating scenarios GMs (I included) have found about certain usual builds: Not planning on Rapid Shot, Snap Shot line of feats, or Rapid Reload free-action-extravaganza to keep track of in combat, and more balanced stats with a decent strength to go into melee with fist or special material melee weapons).
After 5 I'm either going TWF at 7, ITWF at 9, and GTWF at 11; or PBS at 7, Precise Shot 9, Clustered Shots 11 (these feats might be earlier if I don't bother with Rapid Reload and get Improved Critical or Improved Precise Shot at 11). I consider both rather gravy at this point and will decide as I play further. Probably the latter because the idea of enchanting two weapons AND still paying for ammo is a giant UGH. Even if I decide not to dual wield, I like the Gun Twirling feat cuz I like sheathing as a free action to have both hands free at a moment's notice without having to drop the gun.
Gun twirl deed gives Dazzling Display feat when the maverick has 1 grit, which helps with the Gun Twirling prereqs.
As for why some don't take far strike monk level: alignment, don't wanna multiclass/wanna rush to gunslinger level 5 for firearm/pistol/musket training, not really caring about precise shot at low levels, like wearing armor and/or not a great wisdom.
The "until another command is given" is for the specific deactivation of the flaming enhancement.
In the 3.5 FAQ this situation was addressed:
There’s nothing illogical about a flaming, frost, shock weapon (at least not within any framework that allows weapons to generate energy in the first place), and there’s no rule against such weapons (think of the weapon as having fiery, frosty, shocking flames). The character creating such a weapon decides how it can be activated. Most such weapons probably are made so that the wielders can activate all three powers simultaneously, or activate them one at a time, as desired.
Garbage-Tier Waifu wrote:
I think the easiest method to obtain two weapon fighting with a Gunslinger is the Maverick archetype for early, condition free access to Gun Twirling. It also has some cool features and free access to Improved Unarmed Strike, which has some decent uses in of itself. I recommend checking it out here
I plan on using the maverick archetype for easy gun twirling tone extra cool with the pepperbox pistol, but decided to forgo TWF because I need to invest feats for PBS, precise shot, and clustered shot.
With the Gunsmithing feat, one can purchase black powder and regular bullets at 10% of regular price and alchemical cartridges at 50% of regular price.
Assuming one also has ranks in Craft (firearms) specifically to benefit from Artisan's Shop (Firearms) for a 5% discount on non-magical firearms and ammunition, how does that work with the Gunsmithing discounts?
Would the Gunsmithing prices be the new default price to apply artisan's discount? Black powder dose (10 gp) becomes 1 gp base price and 5% discount for 9 sp & 5 cp? And paper alchemical cartridge (12 gp) becomes 6 gp base price and 5% discount for 5 gp & 7 sp?
Or would the Gunsmithing and Artisan's Shop discounts be applied together? Black powder 10 gp dose gets a 95% discount (assuming Gunsmithing is considered a 90% discount) and becomes 5 sp? And paper alchemical cartridge 12 gp gets a 55% discount for 5 gp & 4 sp?
OOOOR would the two simply not stack?
Theodor Snuddletusk wrote:
Making it limited to only certain users that the creator of the magic item specifies that doesn't limit himself shouldn't give a discount for himself. He made it an exclusive item and those wouldn't be cheap.
If trying to sell it, it should sell for less since there wouldn't be much of a market for it.
The example of Judge Dredd's Gun, no one is gonna think it being DNA-locked is gonna make it cheaper. They had to invest MORE into the gun for it to do that.
Paizo seems pretty definite that everything but the gauntlet is weapon and not unarmed attacks.
Mark Seifter wrote:
Basically Herolab asked our Licensing Coordinator who asked me, so I asked Jason, and he said that gauntlets are basically just a way to do lethal damage with your unarmed strikes, not an actual weapon (basically an inexpensive modifier for unarmed strikes that's in the unarmed strike category) and can't be enhanced on its own, whereas all those other weapons are listed separately as weapons, including spiked gauntlet.
Paizo Response wrote:
Gauntlet is actually an unarmed attack, not a separate weapon, so it can’t be enchanted (it uses amulet of mighty fists instead) and it uses all the unarmed strike stuff. All the others are separate weapons and work like manufactured weapons.
Cestus has the wording that it affects unarmed attacks, but it's in the light weapons table. The developer comments work with how the "unarmed" weapons have always been seen to work in the past (they are manufactured weapons and monks don't get nice things), but this gauntlet thing is like a giant outlier that needs clarification.
As Imbicatus says, it's not an actual FAQ but a rule clarification sent to Hero Labs. Hopefully an actual FAQ will clear it up because gauntlets and (magic) special material gauntlets and AoMF are kinda in a weird interaction territory right now.
"at 2nd level and every 2 levels thereafter, a kineticist selects a new utility wild talent from the list of options available to her."
You pick from talents available to you.
You got expanded element (aether)? Excellent you expanded your list of options available to you.
"If the kineticist's expanded element is different from her primary element, she treats her kineticist level as 4 levels lower for the purpose of determining which wild talents she can learn from her expanded element."
Your kineticist levels are 4 lower to determine which aether elements are available to you.
At level 10, your expanded element (aether) kineticist level is 6. That's too low to qualify for Telekinetic Maneuvers (level 4 talent), so it isn't available to you.
The -4 penalty applies to see if one even qualifies for the expanded element talent choice, whether it's picked up normally from regular progression, free swaps at the specified utiliy/infusion talent levels, or with the Extra Wild Talent feat (it uses -2 spell level but basically the same as -4 kineticist levels). If you don't count as a level 8 kineticist for expanded element (aether), you can't pick up Telekinetic Maneuvers at level 10 in any way.
No, you're still restricted by the -4.
Texas Snyper and OP's example of trying to get expanded element (aether) telekinetic maneuvers (spell level 4) at the 10th level swap won't work because his kineticist only counts as a level 6 aether kineiticst.
Sorry I didn't see the example given at the OP's post.
Despite Telekinetic Maneuvers being same level as (example given of) Expanded Defense, the kineticist in question never qualified for Telekinetic Maneuvers at level 10.
Mark's post specifically gives the example of replacing low level primary element talents for low level expanded element talents.
Mitch Mutrux wrote:
Ah ok, I thought the misprint issue being corrected was about several re-roll granting items still only allowed one re-roll for players and the GM stars superceded that restriction. I'll stick with one re-roll + GM stars as bonuses.
I use the light quickdraw throwing shield (one each of different special materials) with the Quick Draw feat with my Shield Champion. Free action to unstrap (throwing shield), free action to draw it from stowed position (Quick Draw feat), free action to strap/don it (quickdraw shield + Quick Draw feat), free action to stow it (quickdraw shield + Quick Draw feat).
I list more reasons why the Shield Champion has action economy issues here and why I feel the need for the light quickdraw throwing shield.
The action economy is useful if the Shield Champion ever needs to throw the dang shield. You get it back at the END of your turn (whenever you declare your turn to be over) so no free action available to equip the shield again, so would need to equip it at the beginning of your NEXT turn, and it being a free action would be incredibly useful. Unequipping it and/or stowing it to have two free hands is also useful for climbing that needs two hands or other activities where don't want any armor check penalties like tumbling/jumping/swimming.