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WatersLethe wrote:
FWIW, I had the same reaction. Although there are plenty of mechanical differences, it's uncomfortable similar to the Thaumaturge thematically-speaking. And a lot of the Exemplar ideas that I want to try out don't fit well with the idea that they're item-dependent. I like your suggestion though, of having something like body-part-options. Or perhaps each ikon might itself be associated with both an item and a body part, and you can choose which one gets imbued with your power? Something like this would be nice to have thematically. And since it doesn't really make many *mechanical* demands on what the class is like, it seems like a relatively easy change to make. Here's hoping something like this makes it into the final version!
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VanceMadrox wrote:
Sweet. Looking forward to seeing your thoughts!
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VanceMadrox wrote:
So I got an email noting that the final PDF for the Ultimate Rulership 2e book was now available. How does it look to you now?
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Nice guide! One typo: Tremor requires a basic Fortitude save, not a basic Reflex save. This is actually one of the nice features of it - most impulses target Reflex saves, so Tremor offers you the option of targeting Fort saves when something has lower Fort saves than Reflex saves.
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VanceMadrox wrote:
I'm very interested in hearing more. Any more details you'd mind sharing about the pros/cons of the supplement? (I've backed it too, but I haven't familiarized myself well-enough with the original rules to evaluate its merits.)
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Karmagator wrote: One avenue that should be explored in this regard is simply enlarging the base pool of skills/actions that can trigger things like panache. The gunslinger has the same problem - the pistolero basically has a non-repeatable special reload and vanguard can only shove and nothing else. Adding things like Bon Mot via Diplomacy to Raconteur's Reload or the option to Trip to Clear a Path would do a lot. Sorry about always bringing the gunslinger into this, but it just the class I know the best ^^ I really like this idea. That would add a lot of potential variation to the gunslinger "loops".
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Alchemic_Genius wrote:
I think this is probably the clearest and most level-headed assessment of the State of the Alchemist that I've seen. Kudos!
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To re-orient a bit: Suppose I want to create a new magic item for my PCs that grants some underwater abilities, including water breathing and a swim speed. What price and level should it have? We're directed to look at existing items, and use those as our guide. But in this case it's not clear which items to look at.
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I haven't finished it yet, but I'm loving Impossible Lands. Great ancestries, with enough page count to make them rich and exciting options; fantastic adventuring locations with a radically different feel from anything else you'll find in the Inner Sea; just all-around great stuff. I think it's neck-in-neck with the Mwangi Expanse book for my favorite book in the Lost Omens line.
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FWCain wrote:
It looks like the book called "Ultimate Kingdoms" book is the same PF1/5e book as before. But one of the add ons is the "Ultimate Rulership" book, which is described as the book that expands upon the PF2 kingdom/mass combat rules.
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Kekkres wrote: this class seems to want to be mobile a lot of its impulses are centered on the kineticist and ideally you want to be bouncing around the map to get into position however they don't have the action economy to do this at all, their offensive overflow impulses are all at least 2+1 actions leading to awkward gaps after you reposition since you have a remarkable lack of one action options leaving you nothing to do but blast, which leads us to the second problem. This is a good point. It's nice to have class design make use of the three action economy, which motivates adding the extra action taxes to the class. But a class that focuses on AOE effects is *already* engaging well with the three action economy by heavily incentivizing spending an action to move before unleashing an AOE. (This also makes it clear that, as is, cone or line AOEs are a lot less attractive to kineticists then "place a burst wherever you want" AOEs. The former almost always require movement to make work, while the latter generally will not.)
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I think one of things that makes combination weapons feel bad in a lot of games (like mine) is the popularity of the ABP optional rules. Since that essentially removes the rune cost for having multiple weapons, it eliminates the big thing combination weapons have going for them. @Michael Sayre: For people using ABP, do you have any thoughts about what a good house rule might be to make combination weapons more attractive? (Perhaps making the switch between ranged and melee modes a free action that doesn't have the manipulate trait?)
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Invictus Fatum wrote: I'd recommend you use color coding to rank various options like many guides do. Makes it easier to read. Love the effort put into this. I'll second this request. It makes guides much easier to read!
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AlastarOG wrote:
I think we're reading the "Tier 1" description differently. AlastarOG wrote:
I take the canonical examples of this to be the many 1-trick pony builds of PF1. For example, the uber-grapple monk build who just grapples and pins every other opponent, or the slumber-hex Witch, who puts them asleep for a coup de grace, etc. These are builds with one mechanical trick that can dominate many encounters, even if the players are playing on auto-pilot and barely paying attention. I agree that in PF2 there are some non-combat encounters that clever players can solve with the appropriate spell (or alchemical tool). But this isn't a case where players who are barely paying attention can dominate many encounters using the same mechanical trick over and over again.
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AlastarOG wrote:
According to this, a necessary condition for being a Tier 1 class is "often capable of solving encounters with a single mechanical ability and little thought from the player". I don't know of any class in PF2 that can often solve level-appropriate encounters solo, to say nothing of solving them with a single ability and little thought. That by itself would seem to ensure that no PF2 class is Tier 1.
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willfromamerica wrote: It’s also my understanding that 2e doesn’t have any adventure paths widely regarded to be straight-up D-tier the same way 1e did with things like Second Darkness, Serpent’s Skull, or Council of Thieves. Though the first book of Serpent's Skull was really good - probably my favorite first book of any AP.
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Top 3: Gunslinger
Bottom 3: Alchemist
I tend to like classes that require you to cleverly juggle your action economy, and which feel really effective when you do. I tend dislike classes which seem to have brute drawbacks you can't cleverly work around, or classes which tend to seem like strict downgrades compared of other classes.
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Michael Sayre wrote:
Very helpful clarification! By the way, should we read this as clarifying whether a pistolero can draw a Jezail when they roll initiative (Ten Paces), and be ready to use it 2-handed? (A) The minimum number of hands you need is 1, and (B) the number of hands you’re using when you activate Ten Paces is 0… which would suggest you can? Or perhaps the two clauses you mentioned don’t settle this case, since the question isn’t whether you can *draw* it (you can, since it’s a 0/1 handed weapon according to the above confitions), but whether you can choose to come to be holding it in its 2-handed stance…
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A Mechanic with the Experimental Armor Prototype alternate class feature would be my first guess. If you really wanted to hit the "overwhelmingly powerful" angle, you could use the Starfinder Mech rules, and stat out the Glitter Boy as a kind of mech. But I think the smallest mechs are Huge, whereas the Glitter Boy seems like it'd only be Large.
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Very nice guide! It might be worth mentioning the Intuitive Cooperation and Helpful Halfling feats for the Halfing Ancestry, since this is a pretty nice boost for Aid-focused Wit Swashbucklers. (I'd also be inclined to make Halflings blue for Wit Swashbucklers.)
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My five favorite depictions were: The Devourer
With Eloritu getting an honorable mention. There weren't any depictions that I hated, though the art for Iomedae and Sarenrae looked a little funny to my eye.
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I'll second the Champion (Paladin or Redeemer) suggestion. Since you have a relatively squishy party, a Champion is a great tank to hold the front line. It's also a great way to protect other members of the party (with your champion reaction). And a number of the Champion feats work particularly well in this AP. Finally, it adds a lot of value by providing your party with a permanent source of between encounter healing (lay on hands). EDIT: I don't want to spoil anything, but I'll flag that Blade Ally is what I'd recommend for this AP - it's really, really useful.
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Master Han Del of the Web wrote: Does Spell Sergeant or any of the other methods of improving spell damage not work with scaling cantrips? That's a good question. If you *did* allow the Spell Sergeant bonus to stack with the scaling cantrip damage, though it looks like a Spell Sergeant's cantrip damage would be almost exactly the same as a Longarms weapon of the same level. (Running some quick numbers against Laser Rifles, the cantrip would be 1 point ahead at L6, 1 point ahead at L9, 1.5 points behind at L13, and 0 points ahead at L17.) So that looks pretty balanced, actually.
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Here's another way to assess the scaling cantrip option, comparing them directly to pistols. Using the standard line of laser pistols as our point of comparison for EAC cantrips, we find that: Level 1-5: Pistol (Azimuth) is ahead by 1 point (on average).
So the scaling cantrip is around 0-2.5 points of damage behind the corresponding laser pistol for pretty much one's entire career. Given that laser pistols are expensive and cantrips are free, this seems like pretty good scaling to me.
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Milo v3 wrote:
Two thoughts about the cantrip option. 1. Unlike on-level pistols, they're free. So if you stick to cantrips, you get a huge chunk of change you can spend on other things. 2. The damage is pretty comparable to that of a Vanguard taking the Entropic Shot alternate class feature (which makes the entropic strike ranged). Focusing on EAC-targeting cantrips, their damage compares as follows: Levels 1-4: Vanguard's Entropic Shot is ahead by 0 points
So it's only a smidge behind the Vanguard's Entropic Shot, and the Entropic Shot is one of the Vanguard's major class features. All in all, it looks like a viable option to me.
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Aaron Shanks wrote:
"March of the Dead". That's not ominous at all...
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breithauptclan wrote:
I'll echo Castilliano and breithauptclan here, and say that guides are definitely one place where "less is more" can apply. If a guide spends a couple pages focusing on ancestries that mesh well with the class I'll skim through the section for interesting suggestions; if it spends 40 pages covering every ancestry I'll skip it entirely.
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I love pretty much every entry in this book. But Ainamuuren might be my favorite. It just lends itself so naturally to a free-archetype 20-level campaign, where players get the Pactbound Initiate archetype as they agree to share the burden of the pact with the Ainamuuren. So many ways to go with this, from helping in low-level ways (finding other volunteers, helping to search for others of their species, keeping their existence and location hidden from potentially nefarious powers) and high-level ways (confronting high level agents seeking to break the pact and unleash the evil within, or even facing the evil itself).
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Congratulations Mark! And as sad as I am that Mark is leaving Paizo, this sort of thing is good for people working in the industry. The more talent poaching via salary increases goes on, the higher the expected pay for the people who work there.
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Ly'ualdre wrote:
I would!
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This book was fantastic. I'll just repeat what I said in the product thread: Porridge wrote: Wow. I was not expecting to like this book as nearly as much as I did. I thought this might be a mini-bestiary, or something. I didn't expect 20 sketches for homebrew APs! Mix that with amazing, evocative descriptions, juicy stat blocks, and some interesting player options, and you get an amazing book. My favorite "short" Lost Omens books so far. Kudos to the authors, developers, editors, and everyone else involved!
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Mewzard wrote:
Well, there is an entry for a class of monsters too powerful to get stats (the book flatly states that level 15-20 characters aren't powerful enough to deal with them)...
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Wow. I was not expecting to like this book as nearly as much as I did. I thought this might be a mini-bestiary, or something. I didn't expect 20 sketches for homebrew APs! Mix that with amazing, evocative descriptions, juicy stat blocks, and some interesting player options, and you get an amazing book. My favorite "short" Lost Omens books so far.
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I really like the Mechfinder rules. A real Battletech feel to it. And I really like how it gives a lot more weight to the size of mechs — it seems like this should be a huge deal, power-level wise, but in the Tech Revolution rules buying a larger mech doesn’t change much. (In fact, it generally seems like a downgrade, power-level-wise.)
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PeteZero wrote:
Fake Out is really good. It’s a use for your reaction that you’ll get to use every turn. And it’s a good use. So (IMO) it’s hard to pass up. (It won’t work if you’re hidden, though, so if you’re planning on being hidden a lot, you can skip it.)
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Recent discussions have made it clear how little Paizo's staff/freelancers make, and how difficult it is to increase how much they're paid given the current pricing of products. So I, for one, am very happy to hear about the price increase!
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I want to thank to KC for her great post here. This is a really careful, thoughtful, and genuinely helpful response to a really tricky and hard to answer question (at least one that I'd struggle to offer an informative answer to). I think having something like this spelled out in the forum guidelines would be fantastic. But in the meantime, I've added it to my list of "to remember" posts, so I can link to it next time this question comes up!
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This is a Hong Kong-style 2-weapon “gun” monk build, constructed around the idea of punishing anyone who targets them. Leap and Fire allows free attacks at anyone who makes ranged attacks against them, and Jellyfish Stance and Opportunist allows free attacks against anyone who tries to engage them in melee combat. Build 16: Unapproachable Spoiler: Stat-wise, this build wants to start with an 18 Dex to maximize their attack stat, and 14 in Str (for Monk dedication) and Cha (for Create Diversion and Demoralize).
Ancestry: Elf (Ancient Elf)
Feats by Level:
Key Gear: Basic Tactics by Level: Carries around one weapon in hand. Round 0: Ten Paces (to draw other weapon). 1st-3rd: Round 1+: Demoralize/Create Diversion, Strike, Strike. Using mobility to move back and keep distance if necessary, and using Fake Out to support allies. 4th-11th: Round 1+: Demoralize/Create Diversion, Paired Shots. Using mobility (and Ki Rush, Feather Step) to move back and keep distance if necessary, using Leap and Fire to return fire against ranged attacks, or Fake Out to support allies if enemies don’t have ranged attacks. 12th+: Round 1: Jellyfish Stance, Paired Shots. Round 2+: Demoralize/Create Diversion, Paired Shots. Using mobility (including Feather Step, Elf Step and Ki Rush) to keep some distance, using Leap and Fire and Opportunist to fire back at anyone who targets you or who tries to close in for melee, or Fake Out to support allies if enemies aren’t targeting them. At L14, if starts turn exactly 10’ away, can follow Paired Shots with a Flurry of Blows with Jellyfish Stance strikes.
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CyberMephit wrote:
Thanks for sharing this!
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