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Poor Wandering One's page

853 posts. Alias of PoorWanderingOne.


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Mind you this could matter to someone with the nature Oracle capstone.

The capstone allows the oracle to explicitly change their type to among other choices, animal. Say they did this, for whatever reason.

If they then get hit by a baleful and miss the saves. Unlikely but '1's happen.

Their druid buddy then goes to the trouble of casting Awaken. What happens?

Mint you to call this an edge case is a bit of an understatement.


Academic/Spiritualist Hedgewitch incoming. Will have full rogue trap finding and at least moderate cosmic power.

If they found you you were not sufficiently paranoid.

My view?


Mind you that depends on your goal. Do you want to live, do you want to provide a level appropriate challenge for the party or do you want to cackle with glee as the other players cry over the record sheets of their now dead characters?

Different answers depending on the question but the basic idea is not to play the game your pursuers are playing. If nothing else they expect you to abide by established rules and tropes. Don't.

I am always a fan of Media res starts. Once started a game with "You are on fire, tell me why!" There is also a Feng Shui adventure out there that recommends starting play by screaming trash-talk at the players as it opens in the middle of an all city league volley ball game.

Of course then there is the mob-hit. And the hopping vampires.

I also recommend you either do not use traits or at least outlaw caster level traits for Sphere casters.

By divorcing Caster level from class level Sphere-casting throws CL related traits and feats for a bit of a loop.

Example: Magical Knack +2CL so long as CL does not exceed character level.
+2CL for mid/low casters sounds more like a feat than a trait. No?

Any level works for me. I suppose it depends on what you (Tark) see as our (the hapless mooks players) place in this passion play slapstick rom-com political satire young girl's tender coming of age story set against the unrelenting poverty of post-Thatcher Birmingham meat-grinder.

Is this a level one zero to hero tale? A level three established but not yet bad-ass story? Or are we level five and all out of bubblegum?
For that matter is this a one adventure one-shot or are we looking at a full campaign?

Also as at least some of us will be new to the system(s) involved perhaps a lower level start will be more forgiving considering the likely number of mistakes misreadings really good ideas?

Johnnycat93 wrote:
Poor Wandering One wrote:
Johnnycat93 wrote:
Dragonflyer1243 wrote:
Awesome, thanks Johnnycat93. Another quick question, do you have to be using the weapons associated with your disciplines, or are those just thematic?
Broken Blade, Scarlet Throne, Solar Wind, Steel Serpent, Thrashing Dragon, and Iron Tortiose all require that you be using a discipline weapon to initiate their respective maneuvers.

As far as I can see Scarlet Throne at least does not require you to be using a discipline weapon. Just not using a shield......

Or did I miss something?

That is a restriction in the spirit of what Dragonflyer asked. I just wanted to be thorough.

Aha! Good call.

Johnnycat93 wrote:
Dragonflyer1243 wrote:
Awesome, thanks Johnnycat93. Another quick question, do you have to be using the weapons associated with your disciplines, or are those just thematic?
Broken Blade, Scarlet Throne, Solar Wind, Steel Serpent, Thrashing Dragon, and Iron Tortiose all require that you be using a discipline weapon to initiate their respective maneuvers.

As far as I can see Scarlet Throne at least does not require you to be using a discipline weapon. Just not using a shield......

Or did I miss something?

Dragonflyer1243 wrote:
Awesome, thanks Johnnycat93. Another quick question, do you have to be using the weapons associated with your disciplines, or are those just thematic?

That depends on the specific maneuver.

D20PSfrd site, Path of War section, Systems and use page, Martial disciplines paragraph. wrote:

Each discipline is tied to a certain skill that might be used in the execution of some of its maneuvers. Also, various weapons groups (see fighter for Weapon Groups under the weapon training class feature) lend themselves well to the philosophy or maneuvers of certain disciplines. Weapons under these groups are defined as 'discipline weapons' for the purposes of feats, features, and other abilities that reference discipline weapons.

Also this.
same page, saving throw paragraph wrote:

Sometimes, a maneuver with a special effect or supernatural augmentation that targets an enemy allows the creature or object to make a saving throw to avoid some or all of the effect. The saving throw line in a maneuver description defines which type of saving throw a maneuver allows. Maneuvers performed with a favored weapon for the martial abilities' discipline gain a +2 competence bonus to the DC of the maneuver initiated (if applicable).

bolding mine.

The Discipline Focus Feat adds 2 dam when using a discipline weapon.

Also all Broken Blade maneuvers require the user either be unarmed or using a discipline weapon. On the plus side using Broken Blade with a discipline weapon grants +2 damage to all maneuvers.
Most of the other disciplines also have some kind of restriction on the weapons their maneuvers can or cannot be used with.

...considers the ritual caster feat....

Will you be using Ritual in the world and can one start with ritual books? Mind you at 3rd level my Hedgewitch can only manage 1st level rites but that is not chicken feed.

To be honest I don't think you should. It is another thing to track, and it muddies the waters of the Does-Sphere-magic work test. On the other hand it is nice to see real material components again. Admittedly a pulley (ant haul) and some wine (identify) lacks the confusing pungency of the ol' ball of bat guano (boom) but you work with what you got.

And another question.
Tark Your thoughts on Casting traditions? Mandatory or optional? Created by you/the book or created by us?

Poor Wandering One wrote:

Hey Tark!

Could you say more about what the major guilds actually do? What services do the Walkers provide that the Imbuers need for example.

Quoting myself so this does not get lost.

bookrat wrote:


I'd like to find a way to introduce an acupuncturist, focusing on needle weapons. Any ideas?


Far strike monk using bo style shuriken. Or a bolt-ace? Even a Swasbuckler, a needle is a "light or one handed piercing weapon" after all.

Hey Tark!
Could you say more about what the major guilds actually do? What services do the Walkers provide that the Imbuers need for example.

Looking at either a Spiritualist/Herbologist Hedgewitch or a non-specialized Incantor.

One has the raw power the other the flexibility.... tomato, tomahto...

Thanks. It looks like they just dropped it. Good call HW's are quite cool without it.

Thanks again.

Luthorne wrote:
Poor Wandering One wrote:

Did anyone ever figure out what the Hedgewitch's first level ability "Magical Potency" does?

On a related note what is the caster level of a first level Hedgewitch?
The book lists "0(1)" with no explanation. I am thinking these two questions might be related.

I don't see a Magical Potency ability in my version; however, the answer to your second question is simple. Since in Spheres of Power, caster level acts like BAB, if you took your first level as a hedgewitch, you would still have caster level 1st to use your two bonus talents in (hence the 1), but if you took your first level as an incanter, and then multiclassed into hedgewitch, you would have caster level 1st (hence the +0). You'll notice that every other non-full caster has a similar entry in their column.

Aha! I must have an old version. Mine lists "Casting, traditions, magical potency, spell pool, tradition power,tradition benefit, tradition secrets" on the "special" section of the level one line of "Table:The Hedgewitch" on page 77. Does the current edition just drop potency or is something substituted?

Re the 0(1): Thanks, that was confusing me. Need more coffee!

Did anyone ever figure out what the Hedgewitch's first level ability "Magical Potency" does?

On a related note what is the caster level of a first level Hedgewitch?
The book lists "0(1)" with no explanation. I am thinking these two questions might be related.

Quite interested. Would Incanters/Hedge-Witches from SOP run up against the no full casters rule? With advanced talents they start throwing around what looks very much like 9th level spells.

Second on Enlarge person. Makes a wonderful potion as well if you going the cauldron route.

It looks like we have quite enough in making people miserable through violence department.

So I was thinking of a wizard, if that will not step on the Warlock's toes. Or a Druid but I think the shapeshifting would play merry hell with the plot. Hard to keep someone on a ship who can turn into a bird or fish.

Speaking of the Warlock: HEY KatsuneSage! Please make your google doc public or otherwise enable us poor players to see your background and crunch.

Also wasn't there going to be a

Your Benevolent etc. wrote:
"... Good Cleric of Sarenrae ...."

Did they drop out?

hmmm so I am leaning Fighter depending on how the rest shake out. With options on Druid should more magic How many players are you looking for?

I was contemplating trying to talk you into allowing the Lore and Lords Vampire but given that we start on a ship..... Well that did not work out so well for Dracula now did it.

What do you mean by "Monk (reloaded)" in the class options list? Does this differ from the Lore and Lords monk?

That was a fun game.
Might be worthwhile to drop DM Frogfoot a line to see if they are interested.

Aw rats no Vampires.


I do like the Lore and Lords Vampire though.

Where are you finding your class options?

Quite interested.
I have played in 2 pbp's on these boards using dungeon world and quite like the system.

If you have an opening for someone not exactly new to the forums I would live to throw my hat into the ring.

This looks quite interesting. Please roll my stats.
I am thinking of trying a Gnome Martial (Internal/Vivisectionist Alchemist 1, Freebooter ranger X. Focused on TWF with the Hook-hammer) but we shall see what the dice gods say and what the party make up needs.

I think the Halfling cleric of Abadar it is then. The halfling section on the Players guide notes that we hairy footed buggers wash up in the River Kingdoms from all over so that works

hmmmm likely LG, or LN to tweak Aleria.

Now Issian or could House Garess work..... How much do you/does this AP stress politics? Will we miss much without noble PC's?

I must admit to being partial to the Halfling as well. Haven't played one since Advanced days.

Hanspur could work as a deity..... but liking Abadar or Erastil more. Your message was a tad garbled. Do you have thoughts on this divine question?

Dotting for interest.

I knew I kept that old WEG book for a reason.


Greeting Greenlanders. Looking over the characters so far I am seeing a dearth of both noble blood and divine might.

Would a cleric of Abadar (Trade & Protection domains), noble scion of house Garess be welcome?

I know Abadar is not a major deity in the region but it would create a nice conflict with Erastil's inquisitor.
House Garess should also lead to some infighting/stress with the Lebedan transmuter.

Could also go Erastil if Abadar is an issue though that might be over-egging the divine pudding.

Alternately should you want to avoid politics in this game the character also works as an Issian halfling priest of Hanspur looking to open up a new area for trade and maybe make a bit of Brevory into a halfling homeland.

Looking at a caster/support cleric. Though like any cleric able to hold the line with the fighters at least until the spells run out.

Let me know if the concept grabs you, I'll be fleshing it out as time passes.

and Gnomes

Was considering Bloodrager. Fey Blooded looked like it could work well for a gnome.

But are there the feat slots to make a decent TWF Bloodrager?

GM_Retro_Girl wrote:
I would love to GM one of these, but I want to ensure that there are enough people interested before I create the actual recruitment for one.

There are. Players are easy to find.

I personally recommend going for whichever one you feel best about. GM burnout is the real campaign killer in these parts.

Scott Wilhelm wrote:

The cool thing about the Gnome Hooked Hammer is that it is a Double Weapon, a Blunt and Piercing Weapon, and a Trip weapon. Immediately, I am thinking of developing a Gnome Tripping Character.

The problem with that is that you can't Trip anybody more than 2 sizes bigger than you, and Gnomes are Small as it is. My normal answer to size problems with Trip is the Feat Punishing Kick. Punishing Kick sort of works like Stunning Fist except instead of making your opponents Stunned, you make the Prone. Not quite the answer, but often good enough.

Can you use any 3.5 Feats? There is a Feat, Confound the Bigfolk, that lets you get around the Tripping size limit directly.

There is a Pathfinder Teamwork Feat called The Harder they Fall that also lets you get around the size limit on Tripping.

There is a Goblin feat that allows oversize tripping, I think it's called Tangle Feet.

For extra damage, there is Power Attack, of course, but there is also Sneak Attack combined with Dirty Tricks.

So I guess a good next question: what rule sets are allowed and what aren't?

Re rule sets: Assume no Unchained , no 3.5, and no 3pp.

Re:Punishing Kick: Wow those requirements are steep! It is pretty much a Monk/Brawler only feat and neither of them can flurry with the Hook-Hammer.

Re: Harder they fall. Nice but I really see another player giving up their action to help me attempt a trip. Maybe with a trip focused fighter but that is a big investment for a maneuver that can be ignored by so many monsters. Mind you a Maneuver Monk 1 / Lore Warden-Martial master X could likely make this work even with the -1CMB for a Gnome.

Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
Don't gnomes get Cha boost? Seems like a paladinX/unchainedrogue4 would work well. Dex to damage plus sneak plus debilitating injury with effortless lace, all of that stacking with the pally damage bonus? And healing and good saves etc.

No access to Unchained, sounds really interesting. Though TWF paladins seem even more feat starved than a Ranger.

Thought of that but you don't really get anything other than the SA and the avoiding the 13 Int requirement for feats from Striker.

Internal Alchemist-Vivisectionist however brings Mutagen and extracts to the party. Plus Sneak attack and the whole needing to breathe only a couple times a day thing which while not being amazing does seem more Gnomish than just being able to hit things a bit better.

Is dipping for one level to get 1d6 sneak attack worth the loss of one BAB?

The, on average, +3 damage seems worth it with the freebooter getting and granting an extra +2 vs flanked enemies at character level 5. (Sneak attack providing class1/Ranger5)

Add in Freebooters bane and at character level 6 my gnome is granting themselves and their flank partner +3 to hit +1 damage. Add in the normal +2 for flank and TWF power attacking starts looking viable. Heck at +5hit +1damage 1d3 augmented SM/SNA 1 critters could fill open flank spots to decent effect.

Toss in a Bard adding a +2/+2 competence performance and one is looking at +7 to hit +4 Damage. I feel the occasional move action is worth granting a summoned eagle 3 +10/1d4+5 attacks a turn. This makes a first level spell a threat that a CR6 something w/o DR will need to remove.

At least that is what I see.

The freebooter is party dependent, Freebooters bane is just inferior Weapon training with out folks to multiply the effect but is that really a large problem with 4-6 person parties?

Wouldn't this have the same damage problem?

And what is improved weapon finesse? I can't seem to find it in d20pfsrd.

Or perhaps it is just impossible to solve the damage issue w/o sneak attack.

Tried a 7th level build and was looking at 12/7/12 with a +1/+1 hammer before either Freebooter bonus or Power attack, but was only pulling +4/+4/+2 damage.

Best case, both Freebooter bonuses active and power attack looked like +16/+11/+16 with +10/+10/+6 which beats the un-buffed iconic fighter but that is not saying much.

At the same level a Slayer is getting +2/+2 self only as a swift and adding a d6 sneak

so best result assuming otherwise identical build would be +14/+9/+14 and assuming a (4 on SA die) +14/+14/+10 which is a marked improvement.

Hmmmmm I wonder if +1d6 sneak is worth a level delay? Perhaps via Vivisectionist? Hmmm Internal Alchemist/Vivisectionist 1. Freeboter X.
Or Internal Alchemist-Vivisectionist 1 / Freebooter-Skirmisher X to replace spells with tricks.

lemeres wrote:

It also becomes a lot faster at level 7 (basically allowing you to switch to whichever opponent you are currently facing). Also, if you get a sneak attack, you can do studied target from the get go. So, while the freebooter gave a bonus against a key enemy to everyone, but it can be hard to set up again once that one target is dead, you can instead always get a sizable boost against any target.

Also, it is extremely useful in social situations, since it adds the studied bonus to key social skills too (bluff, sense motive, and later disguise is added.

One of the main side grade archetypes (as in archetypes which are different, but equally valid like freebooter) for the slayer is the Stygian Slayer. This one gets a few spell like abilities (notable invisibility for times/day that scales with level and an upgraded gaseous form for minute/level/day), and it also can use key stealth/illusion magic items like it had a spell list.

Hmmm what comes faster? Freebooters Bane, move action to grant you and all allies within a 30' burst +1/+1 vs a selected target, Bonus increases by +1 every 5 levels, is a level one ability.

By level seven the Freebooter is granting the party +2/+2 vs the selected target. That party wide bonus is tough to beat. I will happily allow that the Slayer will have better solo numbers but how to factor in the Thief hitting more often, or the Wizard's ray's hitting more and harder, or summoned creatures.

It gets even tougher when you consider Freeboter's bond (4th level, move to grant +2 to hit to any ally flanking with the Freeboter or anyone else effected by this ability.) Now you and your flank partner are each getting +6/+2 untyped against the main target.

Is this something like the fireball vs haste thing? Fireball will let the Wizard do more damage on their own but with a party haste is the more damaging choice.

Eh likely a 6 of one half dozen of the other thing. Slayer far better if you are the sole Martial/semi-martial in a group but Freeboter for groups.

Yes I love that old school vibe!

Strength: 4d6 ⇒ (1, 5, 1, 6) = 13 drop the one for 12
Dexterity: 4d6 ⇒ (2, 4, 1, 2) = 9 drop the one for 8
Constitution: 4d6 ⇒ (2, 3, 2, 1) = 8 drop the one for 7
Intelligence: 4d6 ⇒ (1, 3, 6, 3) = 13 drop the one for 12
Wisdom: 4d6 ⇒ (4, 2, 6, 1) = 13 drop the one for 12
Charisma: 4d6 ⇒ (6, 1, 2, 1) = 10 drop the one for 9

Yes a perfect zero point build!!!

Hmmmm Str & Wis are double digit so why not a dwarf cleric!
Cash: 4d6 ⇒ (5, 3, 5, 3) = 16 x10 for 160g

God, Torag protection and good domains.
More to follow

This looks quite interesting.
I could even take the odd turn GMing.

Nohwear wrote:
The system needs to be hashed out, but I was thinking of giving downtime between missions. This can either be used for crafting or to earn extra gold.

The simplest way would to use Edward Sobel's idea of reequipping to WBL between adventures. The gm's character is just assumed to be on another adventure off-screen. This avoids penalizing the gm by shorting loot/xp and avoids penalizing the players who could not access the "GMs only" downtime club.

I would also recommend dropping xp as something you need to tack. If the adventure you want to play is level 3 then *poof* all the characters are level 3. Fast and simple, It may mean some rebuilding if GM a ran a lvl10 adventure and then GM b wants to run a lvl5 but I have yet to see players turn down a chance to rebuild. Or players could have a different character for each gm.

I also wonder if different GMs can have different rules? Say one GM dislikes psi, or Synthesist summoners, or Gnomes, or the color green, could each gm ban or allow as they see fit? This might result in players having more than one character, but if all inactive characters are treated like the GM's character this should not pose a problem. This idea could even be expanded to allow differing GMs to use different game systems.

So the slayer drops Favored Enemy in favor of the Freebooter's version except it only helps the Salyer and drops all spells for sneak attack.

At least that is what I am seeing is this correct? Sneak attack is a big help for a TWF but is is worth losing spells? Or am I missing something?

Gnome weapon focus is on the list of wanted feats.
Along with Weapon Focus (hook hammer)

So I am wondering if it is possible to build an effective gnome martial who uses the hook hammer as a double weapon.

I am not looking for an awesome fighter I know all the other races are better at this than poor gnomes but I am wondering if an effective gnome hook hammer artist can be built.

~Effective as the primary martial in a classic gang of four.
~Effective at every level
~Two weapon fighting with the hook hammer as a primary attack option

Would like to see:
~As many Gnome specific feats/traits/etc as possible
~Avoiding dump stats if you can

My ideas
~Exploiting the Hatred trait with the Vast Hatred and Greater Hatred feats to supplement a twf ranger's favored enemy.

~Freebooter ranger and using Bond to the land and Fey magic gnome racial traits to supplement Rangers Favored terrain.

~Going TWF fighter and focusing on as many of the gnome or small size feats as can fit.

So can it be done? Can a Gnome wielding their racial weapon be an effective party member?

Ravingdork wrote:

The "I don't like violence and won't fight" form of pacifism isn't going to work in the vast majority of games.

The "I don't like violence and won't KILL" however could still work quite well.

Maybe but it takes active buy in from the party and GM to make non-violent options available.

How does the pacifist feel about the party slayer coup de graceing the folks who you went to the trouble of enchanting/sleeping/beating to unconsciousness?

How does the party Hooded Champion/sniper feel about trying to one shot mooks from cover being off the table?

Does the GM need to create prisons. Would Sandpoint, which offers a bounty on Goblin ears, bother to leave the greenskins alive if our pacifist brought a string of goblin prisoners into town?

A pacifist in Pathfinder is largely just outsourcing the bloodletting.

Spells per day are at a premium at low levels.

Even at 4th lvl when the stat boost would replace the point of int I am recommending they cash in a wizard with 17 or 18 int only has, not counting Pearls etc, 4 first level spells. Burning one of then on a disc that only lasts 4 hours seems dangerous.

But like I said. Take with salt, there are good 7 STR wizards out there. It's just that the weight management becomes a pain. At least to me.

True but you still have to survive a level or two to get them, and they fill a shoulder slot, and they cost 1000gp that could have been spent scribing spells into your book and buying potions/wands/alchemial items or even buying a cloak of resistance.

I dislike dump stats in general so I might be oversensitive. Heck some GM's don't even track weight allowing low str types to carry all kinds of things. So take my advice well salted.

Be very careful about the STR 7. You will have no gear and even potions and scrolls will become an issue.
A light x-bow, 10 bolts, a dagger, your spell book, and one component pouch use up 11 of the 23 pounds you can carry without penalty.

Eventually STR is pointless for wizards but you have to survive low levels first.

Michael Weiss, "Renegade" wrote:

A) However the rest of the group wishes to travel.

B and B1) Renegade will fly. He will maintain the pace of the group and remain just below rooftop level to avoid detection.
C) Will indeed ATTEMPT to be somewhat sneaky, though likely not doing so well. He will also have his Awareness power activated, using his Sensory Array to detect anything that might be lurking about somewhat obscured/hidden.

c. With a trapping of "Rocket Thrusters" on your flight stealth poses some issues. Mind you there are benefits to having plasma torches strapped to your feet but stealth is not among them. They may not know exactly where you are until they get LOS but they will know you are around and are nearby.

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