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Poor Wandering One's page

703 posts. Alias of PoorWanderingOne.


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I am very sorry but I will have to bow out.
The game looks quite interesting but I cannot give it the time and attention it deserves.

Good luck!


GM Mogthrasir wrote:
Poor Wandering One wrote:

Taking the reroll for Beadurinc

** spoiler omitted **

Str10 Dex10 Con10 int7 wis9 cha7
Man this guy cannot get a break.

I see:

STR 13 DEX 12 CON 11 INT 8 WIS 10 CHA 11 LUC 8

Which are pretty nice, considering. You'll appreciate being able to hack and slash with a +1 bonus. I'm not sure why the rolls are different than what you saw, but I'd go with what's there now.

Facepalm, I was rolling 3d6 drop the low. Your numbers are correct, mind you my way did make an excellent GW Traveler character.


Feustus wrote:
Looks like my pet(s) will still be the main tank.

The main meatshields certainly but with a Skirmisher and a Monk in the party, not to mention the Bardic backup, we are quite the meatgrinder.


Taking the reroll for Beadurinc

Beadurinc:

3d6 ⇒ (5, 3, 5) = 13
3d6 ⇒ (2, 4, 6) = 12
3d6 ⇒ (1, 5, 5) = 11

3d6 ⇒ (5, 2, 1) = 8

3d6 ⇒ (1, 3, 6) = 10
3d6 ⇒ (2, 3, 6) = 11
3d6 ⇒ (4, 1, 3) = 8

Str10 Dex10 Con10 int7 wis9 cha7
Man this guy cannot get a break.


I list the listing list

    Hotaru - Thorncaller (channeler.) Animal TBD
    Nohwear - necromancer...................Animal Vulture
    SamuraiRuy - Bard.......................Animal Shark
    James Langley - monk....................Animal Weasel
    Poor Wandering One - Wizard.............Animal Wolf
    Festus - unknown........................Animal unknown


GM on allowed sources wrote:

The Barbarian class,

the Lore and Lords pack, which contains rules for the Monk, Shaman, [u]Vampire,[/u] Trickster and Hunter classes,

and the Grim World pack, which contains rules for the Battlemaster, Channeler, Necromancer, Templar, Slayer, and Skirmisher.

Those plus the base professions in the SRD. Go Grim World looks to be good.


SamuraiRuy wrote:

....

Were-shark Bard!!!

Well we are done here SamuraiRuy wins...

SamuraiRuy wrote:
(It's ok if I apply to this game even if I'm in the other one?)

I suspect it will be fine. ;&) (Xha waves hello)


James Langley wrote:

Thanks for the list, PWO! Also, thanks for dropping your original character. I'd be more than cool with being a slayer or barbarian, though, if you'd like to monk-it-up.

So... what is the requirement on alignment for the party? I was thinking of being evil and going with Path of the Dragon.

Not a thing. It was a coin toss between Monk and Wizard for me. I am looking forward to seeing how spell casters work in DW.


I list the listing list

Hotaru - Thorncaller (channeler) Animal TBD
Nohwear - necromancer Animal Vulture
SamuraiRuy - Bard Animal Shark
James Langley - monk Animal Weasel
Poor Wandering One - Wizard Animal Wolf

Edit: Fixed Nohwear.
Edit II electric boogaloo: added shark-bard


James Langley wrote:
I am more than a little interested in this (were-weasel monk sounds fun). ...

Take the monk, I want to see this weasel. Jigme can wait in the wings.

A werewolf wizard seems to be a good (if a bit David Eddings) fit for this game.

Frogfoot, the wizard spell list does not seem to be on the SRD is this it?


Hotaru of the Society wrote:
I'm having trouble finding out what some of the terms mean. Like Forceful, Piercing, Environmental effect. Sorry if that should be obvious. I kinda figure it's probably in the book, rather than on the SRD?

The SRD has some indexing issues.

I found this section on equipment useful for many tags


This does look good.

I would like to but forward Jigme, 6th speaker to the lawless. A good human monk following the Path of truth.

Shifted animal not so sure about..... Crane or Monkey would be traditional. Mantis would be odd.

Suggestions?


Just collecting the data.

  • Etheswitha:
    Female, Human Scribe - Wild hair, Crude. STR:13+1/CON:13+1/DEX:11+0/INT:12+0/WIS:5-2/CHA:11+0/LCK:11+0 HP:3 DAM d4 Gear(load 5):7 Pieces of Parchment (0 wt), Quill & Bottle of Ink (0 wt)

  • Caflice:
    Male, Human Trapper - Hawk-nosed, Superstitious. STR:10+0/CON:16+2/DEX:15+1/INT:15+1/WIS:17+2/CHA:11+0/LCK:5-2 HP:4 DAM d4 Gear(load 4):-Knife (hand, 0 wt), 1 Snare Trap (1 wt)

  • Thodor :
    Male, Dwarven Smith - Freckled, Quiet. STR:10+0/CON:5-2/DEX:11+0/INT:15+1/WIS:10+0/CHA:13+1/LCK:10+0 HP:1 DAM d4 Gear(load 4) -Hammer (close, 1 wt), Burlap Sack (0 wt), 2 Iron Ingots

  • Beadurinc:
    Male, Human Executioner - Pale skin, Forthright. STR:9+0/CON:8-1/DEX:12+0/INT:6-1/WIS:10+0/CHA:14+1/LCK:10+0 HP:2 DAM d4 Gear(load 4)-Executioner's Axe (close, 2-handed, messy, +1 damage, 2 wt), Black Hood (worn, 0 wt)

Ah randomness. The executioner's highest stat is Chrisma and our dwarven smith is weak and sickly. And we have the least successful trapper in recorded history. Snare trap + LCK5 means empty pot.

{edit: up to date w/HP load and dam. Question on rounding CON13/4=3.25 this rounds to 3 not 4 correct?}


GM Mogthrasir wrote:

...

  • Female, Human Scribe
  • Male, Human Trapper
  • Male, Dwarven Smith
  • Male, Human Executioner

I will outline their equipment when not on my phone :P

As for the rest, Roll 1d100 twice for each character. One will determine a physical trait, the other a personality trait. I should have included this above. Oops

You may also name them, or tell me if you want that randomized too.

Please randomize the names.

trait rolls:

  • Female, Human Scribe Trait 1: 1d100 ⇒ 50. Trait 1: 1d100 ⇒ 21
  • Male, Human TrapperTrait 1: 1d100 ⇒ 33. Trait 1: 1d100 ⇒ 95
  • Male, Dwarven SmithTrait 1: 1d100 ⇒ 26. Trait 1: 1d100 ⇒ 79
  • Male, Human ExecutionerTrait 1: 1d100 ⇒ 60. Trait 1: 1d100 ⇒ 39


I am so in. The idea of playing out the origin story sounds really interesting.

Now for some villagers while I read up on DW and Funnels

Villager 1:

str: 3d6 ⇒ (4, 5, 4) = 13
con: 3d6 ⇒ (4, 4, 5) = 13
dex: 3d6 ⇒ (1, 6, 4) = 11
int: 3d6 ⇒ (3, 5, 4) = 12
wis: 3d6 ⇒ (1, 3, 1) = 5
cha: 3d6 ⇒ (1, 5, 5) = 11
lck: 3d6 ⇒ (4, 1, 6) = 11

occupation: 1d100 ⇒ 79
Gender, odd male: 1d2 ⇒ 2

Villager 2:

str: 3d6 ⇒ (4, 3, 3) = 10
con: 3d6 ⇒ (6, 4, 6) = 16
dex: 3d6 ⇒ (3, 6, 6) = 15
int: 3d6 ⇒ (6, 4, 5) = 15
wis: 3d6 ⇒ (6, 5, 6) = 17
cha: 3d6 ⇒ (5, 2, 4) = 11
lck: 3d6 ⇒ (1, 1, 3) = 5

occupation: 1d100 ⇒ 90
Gender, odd male: 1d2 ⇒ 1

Villager 3:

str: 3d6 ⇒ (4, 4, 2) = 10
con: 3d6 ⇒ (3, 1, 1) = 5
dex: 3d6 ⇒ (4, 2, 5) = 11
int: 3d6 ⇒ (4, 5, 6) = 15
wis: 3d6 ⇒ (2, 4, 4) = 10
cha: 3d6 ⇒ (3, 5, 5) = 13
lck: 3d6 ⇒ (4, 4, 2) = 10

occupation: 1d100 ⇒ 31
Gender, odd male: 1d2 ⇒ 1

Villager 4:

str: 3d6 ⇒ (2, 5, 2) = 9
con: 3d6 ⇒ (2, 4, 2) = 8
dex: 3d6 ⇒ (3, 4, 5) = 12
int: 3d6 ⇒ (4, 1, 1) = 6
wis: 3d6 ⇒ (4, 3, 3) = 10
cha: 3d6 ⇒ (6, 4, 4) = 14
lck: 3d6 ⇒ (5, 3, 2) = 10

occupation: 1d100 ⇒ 38
Gender, odd male: 1d2 ⇒ 1


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That is a lot of Aasimar! :7)

Good luck and please keep me in mind should a spot open.


Malakav wrote:

an how Starwars stole Lightsabers from Halo and their energy sabers

lol ok ok i was a douche

i get it :P

Well done.

Acknowledge the mistake, apologize and retire in good order with your dignity intact. Well done.

If only this standard could prevail over the whole of the internet.


Eh it is an extreme edge case. Not worth bothering with.

The Charger trait is the only thing I found that increases base speed if you have a viable lane so using the difference between charge and double move as an invisible obstacle/illusion detector is rather limited.

The bit about the 5ft trench stopping the monk charging a target 200ft away still needs to change.


Orfamay Quest wrote:

...

if/he tries and makes it, he knows the trench was only figmentary.

Exactly. The charging person/thing somehow detects the viable charge lane covered by the illusion w/o interacting with the illusion. I do not for a moment pretend that this is overly useful it is just some minor evidence that the charge rules need work. Mind you with traits/items/etc that increase movement speed on a charge the usefulness of the charging ally as an illusion detector increases.

The Charger trait (Inner sea Primer, +10 base speed when charging) for example detects illusory obstacles w/o save if both the target of the charge and the obstacle are located in the 20" bonus charge distance allowed by the trait. If the trench is real the charge is illegal and you stop 20" short as you run out of movement. If the trench is an illusion the lane is valid and you go through.

RAW this also works vs. invisible walls.

This is silly. The charge rules are silly and need revamping. That is the only point I am trying to make


Yes this is a bad rule. It breaks verisimilitude and most of the source fiction disagrees.

It seems pointlessly silly that a high level monk with a charge distance of 220 and an acrobatics score best recorded as "Jackie Chan" can be prevented from charging by a 5 wide trench crossing the lane some 200 feet from the target.

It is even sillier that this same trench will prevent the charge of a Tyrannosaurus Rex whose feet are far larger than the trench.

But it is the rule and until the designers see fit to change it we are stuck.

I wonder about invisible obstacles. Do they block charges? If so when? Could trying to charge be used to detect them?

How about figments? Would a figmentary trench prevent our monk charging from 200ft away? RAW I think the answer is no.
There must be a way to exploit this as an illusion detector.....


If the target wants to move more than 5 feet from the anchor square they need to bull rush. The result of the bull rush determines how far they move. Next turn they get to try it again likely with a penalty based on their new distance from the anchor square. Intended movement never enters into it.

I am wondering how involuntary movement interacts with this spell. Say your anchor square is on a tiny ledge on the side of a mountain. You then jump. As you are a 1st level gnome sorcerer who dumped STR you fail the bull rush and invent bungee jumping.


That "any" in the feat does seem to allow disarm et al without having to worry about AoO's.

Interesting find Ravingdork


The timer starts when the dose is combined.at least that is what i thing the "You must use THIS.." in the last line means. So so long as you keep working and no combined dose is allowed to go over the line you can keep going as long as your supplies hold out.

Actually there might be a limit. It says you combine two doses of the same poison. A doubled dose is not the same as a non doubled dose.

So if combining takes one minute then there is a maximum number of combinations you can make before the first combined dose goes stale

In 60 min you could conceivably make 60 combined doses but the first goes stale as soon as you finish the last.

It's alchemical plate spinning.

Looks like one can manage 58 (well 59 but there is no point starting w/ an odd number) starting doses with in the time allowed. Though I as a DM would not make this level of plate spinning easy.

58 @ DC is
29@ DC +2 or
14@+4 (one +2 extra)
7@+8
3@+10 (one +8 extra)
1@ DC+12

+100 is not reachable w/o a lab in your friendly wizard friend's timeless dimension.

Note starting w/56 gives the same result w/o the +2dose left over.
Unless my math is off, which is likely.


I think is is legal. The limiter is the use within an hour or the whole batch turns into koolaid. That and the fact it gets expensive really fast.

Woran: Poisons not potions.


Hmmmm....

I was initially drawn to a Monk but the tower idea Really fits a barbarian.

It has been a long time since I got to play an angry Wall of meat

So pray welcome Xha the exile.
Backstory. Xha is in free fall right now. Exiled from his homeland for an incident HE WILL NOT TALK ABOUT. He has been wandering for some time engaging in a bit of heroism and a bit of banditry. He considers the Tower a civilized man's folly. Conquering it seems a good way to make a name, and perhaps smashing it will teach the soft, corrupt, 'civilized people' something about the natural superiority of the barbarian.

CRUNCH:

Class: Barbarian
Race: Outsider (human), At the beginning of each session, the GM
will ask you something about your homeland, why you left, or what
you left behind. If you answer them, mark XP.
Look: Wild Eyes, Mighty thews, Strange tattoos, Scavenger's outfit
STATS:
STR:16/2
DEX:13/1
CON:15/1
INT:8/-1
WIS:12/0
CHA:9/0

Max HP: (8+15)=23
Base Damage: d10
Armor: 1

Starting Moves:
Unencumbered, Unharmed:So long as you are below your Load and neither wear armor nor carry a shield, take +1 armor.

Herculean Appetites: Others may content themselves with just a taste of wine, or dominion over a servant or two, but you want more. Choose two appetites. While pursuing one of your appetites if you would roll for a move, instead of rolling 2d6 you roll 1d6+1d8. If the d6 is the higher die of the pair, the GM will also introduce a complication or danger that comes about due to your heedless pursuits.
⃞ Mortal pleasures
⃞ Fame and glory

The Upper Hand: You take +1 ongoing to last breath rolls. When you take your last breath, on a 7–9 you make an offer to Death in return for your life. If Death accepts he will return you to life. If not, you die.

Musclebound: While you wield a weapon it gains the forceful and messy tags.

What Are You Waiting For? When you cry out a challenge to your enemies, roll+Con. \
✴On a 10+ they treat you as the most obvious threat to be dealt with and ignore your companions, take +2 damage ongoing against them.
✴On a 7–9 only a few (the weakest or most foolhardy among them) fall prey to your taunting.

Alignment:Chaotic, eschew a convention of the civilized world.

Gear: Max Load is (8+Str) 10.
Dungeon rations (10 uses, 2 weight),
Dagger (hand, 1 weight)
some token of where you have traveled or where you’re from,
Two-handed sword (close, +1 damage, 2 weight)
Adventuring gear (1 weight)

Bonds
Fill in the name of one of your companions in at least one:
_______________ is puny and foolish, but amusing to me.
_______________’s ways are strange and confusing.
_______________ is always getting into trouble—I must protect
them from themselves.
_______________ shares my hunger for glory; the earth will
tremble at our passing


What class was CJ?

That is a good class mix and I would hate to create a hole.


DM Frogfoot wrote:
Gameplay thread is up. Still welcoming new applicants.

So are you still looking for folks? DW noob but intrigued by what I have seen.


All fort saves. The bit about avoiding the reduced effect on a save is an added and quite awesome ability.

Basically once per turn on any forced fort save (so not usable vs ingested poisons? See your DM to define 'forced') you make while wearing light or no armor you get to sub your REF save for the FORT save, AND if you make the REF save AND if the thing you are saving against has lessened effect on a successful save you avoid the lessened effect as well.

The downside for basically making your best save do double duty is that any time you use this you are staggered until the end of your next turn.

A good feat. Strong plus side but a wicked price to pay.


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Joana wrote:
Add a Swarm template. Then you don't have to worry about rolling to hit; the PCs are just taking damage until they can disperse or outrun the swarm.

Are there swarms of Medium creatures?

Oooooooo This will do nicely.


yup a grind. A thinking party will find ways around, Sanctuary, Invisibility, illusions, fast movement et multiple cetera. But a party that just wades in is risking being overwhelmed and eaten.


How populated is the island? Are we talking 200 medium zombies or 20,000?
Are ALL the creatures on the island zombified? All the cattle, all the horses, all the dogs and hogs? All the birds? There could easily be tens or even hundreds of thousands of zombied birds. Then there are the rats, the bugs, and the plants.

With these kinds of numbers standing and fighting will mean death to the party. Action economy and natural 20's on attacks will wear the party down. Med sized PC can be surrounded by 8 zeds. That is 8 chances at a 20 each round no matter how good the players AC is.
Magic will help but spells have durations, 20k walking dead will just wait it out or bury the spell effect under corpses.

The party will need to hide and run to survive especially if there are zombie birds whose dread croaking can alert the hoard.

Mind you this kind of adventure can easily bog down into an always fighting, always surrounded, grind if the players dray attention and cannot shake the dead army.
This may not be what the players are looking for by way of a fun game.


It can really play up the horror to have a zombie keep eating a downed foe while the rest of the party tries to pull it off the downed player. It will really reinforce that these things do not think like something alive.


Round 3
Castor defeats Pollux in a game of Nine Men's Morris through the simple expedient of blatant cheating.

Pollux commends the rat's fidelity to his core nature.

{no relevant actions}


My 2cp on witches based on playing one for 5 levels so it may only be worth 1cp.

Witches lack most of the classic sorcerer/wizard defenses.
Shield, nope.
Blur, nope.
Mirror Image, nope.
They get Symbol of Mirroring though for reasons I cannot comprehend.
Protection from arrows, nope.
Protection from Alignment, nope.
Resist Energy, nope.
Invisibility, nope
etc...

Basically Witches are glass cannons. If it is not immune to Mind -affecting magic the Witch has a chance. Otherwise cast Mount and run.

Witches need to focus on things like initiative, combat casting and toughness because their nonexistent defenses mean they WILL get hurt.

Be wary of the Flight hex. W/O invisibility/Protection from arrows you just made yourself a pincushion unless you can zip from cover to cover.
Mind you grapple w/hair then half move straight up next round, repeat until they break free, is a fun tactic vs low cmb foes.

Abuse potions. Reduce Person, Mage Armor, Invisibility, Disguise self, these are your friends. Since there is another witch in the party look hard at the cauldron and coven hexes.

Fortune and Cackle. The meatshields will love you. Evil eye/Misfortune/Ill omen spell will help you save or die spells/hexes to land. You will want accursed hex and split hex when you can get them.

Get a lesser rod of reach if you are considering retraining the hair hex. You need a way to safely deliver touch spells.

Beg your GM to allow you access to the Web Bolt spell. I think it is the only low level Save or loose spell that targets Ref saves on your list.

Summon Swarm and Vomit swarm have subtle but important differences both will block charges though.


Potions of Enlarge person for your Meat shield. I find Fighters provide the best cover.

@Larkos Shield is not on the Witch list. It will be a while before the OP can hit the DC 20 UMD unless they specialize in the skill.


Claxon wrote:


This is a great find. Based on this discovery:
Concentrate poison: ...

It appears poisons cannot be concentrated into a single "dose". So, if he has this discovery then he can combine doses into one stronger poison, which lasts 1 hour. If he doesn't have the discovery, he can't combine multiple doses into a single container. He would have to apply each dose of poison individually.

Thank you for mentioning this. The alchemist is breaking the rules, though he may not realize it.

Mind you inhaled poisons have an odd exception here. Multiple doses can stack once delivered/dispersed into an area. The trick is delivery, which PF limits to traps and Poison Sand Tubes.

Even the modern gas grenades are listed as only being able to be loaded w/ mustard gas.


How is the poison being delivered? The only legal methods for delivering an inhaled poison in pathfinder are Poison sand tubes and traps. Unless I missed something.

There are also no rules, other than the Concentrate Poison discovery, allowing multiple doses of inhaled or ingested poisons to be stacked into a single container.
Even allowing the creation of gas bombs it would take 1 attack per dose to deliver. Once the cloud on poison is created it will deliver multiple doses but creating the cloud is slow.

Also what are the gas bombs made out of and where are they kept? Looks like a good use of the Shatter spell unless they are in a Haversack, and if they are it is a move action to draw each globe which further slows the poison cloud creation.

Another issue. Per RAW inhaled poison clouds never disperse.

Poisons are an area in Pathfinder where the rules are weak the GM has to improvise a great deal. If I were the GM I would simply outlaw that discovery until such time as full poison rules exist.


Slacker2010 wrote:
Looks like it could be combined with Vital Strike.

Nope. Janni rush stipulates charge and Vital strike cannot be used on a charge.

I am more concerned with the jump requirement for Janni Rush. What does this requirement mean?
Can one make a jump that has an effect and still charge?


So assuming one cannot use acrobatics to charge over not otherwise chargeable terrain of what use is the Janni Rush feat?

Is the jump during a charge mentioned in the feat meant to be cosmetic only?

Is this a case of specific vs general allowing a Janni Rush charge to jump over normal charge blocking terrain?

For purposes of this thread please assume:
~There is a 5'wide infinitely deep infinitely long pit between the charger and the chargee.

~The chargee is standing 5' back from the edge of the pit.

~The charger has a +10 acrobatics skill and will roll 11 on any check.


Hat meet ring.
I am thinking a human cleric of Abadar with Fools for friends or Looking for Work campaign trait.

Abadar disapproves of but understands the attractions of gambling. Having a man on the inside would increase the local bank/temple's confidence in the venture

Can we ask what the folks you have lined up will be playing? I would hate to overlap too severely.


Armored Kilt is not in the APG. It is from Adventurer's Armory.


Fighter for me. Vanilla or Tactician looks most likely.

Likely trait: Child of the Crusade esp if I go Tactician


Same as the Monkeygod.


Dunkelzahn wrote:

Thanks as well for the guide and apologies for resurrecting this thread.

... Unfortunately it only gives the target the grappled condition.

Thoughts?

Do not dismiss grappled. The webbed for cannot move, take -4dex, and are pretty much restricted to v only spells. Spell hex means the Escape/CMB DC will keep 80% of your foes still till well after the fight is over. Or if you don't want to wait that long. Good old strangling hair or Aboleth's Lung will remove the problem.

Note Limp Lash is a nasty addition to the fun here. No save, a self directed Fortune /evil eye vs their AC should ensure a hit. Now they are trying to escape a scaled DC while losing d6 str & dex per round. Escape becomes difficult to say the least.

Teleportation/freedom of movement will bolix this tactic but them's the breaks.


Claxon wrote:

I'm not sure that the rules are clear enough, and I haven't read all posts to see if this is suggested but I think the easiest way to handle the issues it to say:

If an alchemist brews a second mutagen the first is rendered permanently inert. If an alchemist gives away, loses, or otherwise does not possess a mutagen he brewed it becomes inert, unless picked up by another alchemist who does not currently have a mutagen prepared.

That allows the instantaneous communication problem.

From previous post:
"Are you positing 3 states for a mutagen?
1. Actively in possession of an alchemist.
2. Inert due to not being in possession of an alchemist.
3. Inert due to the creating alchemist making another mutagen.

This view creates a problem.
1. Assume Al makes a mutagen.
2. Before using the mutagen Al is captured, stripped and gated to deep within the Abyss.
3. Al's gear, including the now state 2 mutagen remain on the prime materiel plane.
4. The mutagen passes into the possession of an alchemist working for the bad guys. It is now in state 1 assuming bad alchemist does not have/create their own.
5. Tossed into an Abyssal prison our hero crafts a makeshift alchemy lab and creates a new mutagen to aid in the escape attempt.
The mutagen on the prime material changes to state 3.

If this is accurate, a level one class ability is able to communicate across planes. This may be unique in Pathfinder. It also creates an unblock-able means of sending secure, if quite limited messages."

Having the special inert due to creating alchemist making a second mutagen means some kind of non-detectable link remains between the creating alchemist and the mutagen. A link that stretches across planes and through anti-magic fields with ease.


Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

@ Redneckdevil:

And yet becoming inert doesn't mean he can't make it work again. There is no rules saying that once a bomb/mutagen/extract is inert, it can't be used ever again. Inert, according to the dictionary, means it simply doesn't cause the chemicals to react. It most certainly doesn't mean it can't be fixed or rectified.

There is a lot of language that is nonsensical in regards to the Alchemist's abilities, their functions, and what it entails. I mean come on, the Bombs feature even has this sort of language listed (a bomb becomes inert one round after it's created), even though by RAW you can't hold onto it once it's created; you have to throw it upon creation, no question's asked.

The point of that clause is so the Alchemist doesn't just spend one entire day making nothing but Mutagens and then burning them all during an adventure or big fight, trivializing the encounter(s).

Even so, look at it this way; the Mutagen takes an entire hour to create. It's not really broken considering it requires a lot of time to create just one, and trying to create several takes the whole day to do. Not many mid-adventure/dungeons have that kind of time to spare, so expecting the Mutagens to just pop out on the fly is a no-go just from that alone. On top of this, only a single Mutagen can be active on an Alchemist at a time, so creating Mutagens for specific situations is by no means broken whatsoever compared to what all of our other classes can do.

And while an Alchemist can hold onto and consume another Alchemist's Mutagen, the effects dissipate when the Alchemist creates his own Mutagen. So one could actually go to some awesome level 20 Alchemist, spend X amount of gold to commission one of the baddest Mutagens ever to be experienced, expend it during the adventure, and slaughter everything in sight with his +6/+8 Strength and make a character as dumb as AM BARBARIAN look like a genius.

Exactly. What is more the 2 state solution gives the player alchemist a very good reason to have a lab. They will need a secure place, not on their person to store the mutagens. This can work against the wandering murder-hodo aspect of adventuring or at least lead to players having to work together.

The largest impact it has is on the Beastmorph which frankly could use the bump.


Redneckdevil wrote:

Im with darthslash on this one.

if we look at it as a whole it states 2 ways for a mutagen to become inert. One way is that you brew another dose. Second way is if you give it to someone or set it down. It states that if you do the second way it becomes inert, it will become usable again if you pick it up. It says nothing about the first way becoming usable again.
So what we have with what is written is you brew a dose and hand it off to someone and it becomes inert. If you pick it up and get it back it becomes usable again. IF you brew another dose while you have given someone your first dose then that dose you gave to someone becomes inert for 2 reasons. U can satisfy the requirements for getting it to become usable by grabbing it back with the firsg one by it simy being handed off BUT it has also become inert because u made another one which it doesnt state how that can be usable again.

I coukd very well be wrong as i have many times before but u see the reasoning right?

So you propose that the word 'inert' is used to represent two separate states. Allowing the alchemist to send messages through spooky action at a distance as mentioned above.

Right?


Darthslash wrote:

Ah but your missing a key part of the sentence. Please read again:

" An alchemist can only maintain one dose of mutagen at a time—if he brews a second dose, any existing mutagen becomes inert. As with an extract or bomb, a mutagen that is not in an alchemist’s possession becomes inert until an alchemist picks it up again."

He needs to maintain the mutagen to keep it viable. He has a magical aura that keeps the mutagen fresh and magical. If he sets that one down to make another one, then his magical aura will go towards 'Maintaining' the new dose.

To maintain is an ongoing process of keeping it fresh and potent, and he can only do that to one mutagen at a time.

Exactly. One at a time.

Step one: make mutagen
Step two: hand mutagen to familiar/friend/shelf. Mutagen goes inert.
Step three: make second mutagen with different choices.

Repeat steps until bored

When alchemist does not have mutagen take one from familiar/friend/shelf and use.

This will not let mutagens stack. They don't see last line in Mutagen
"The effects of a mutagen do not stack. Whenever an alchemist drinks a mutagen, the effects of any previous mutagen immediately end."

I am just wondering why it is not possible to have multiple pre-made mutagens. Is possible for a seventh level Alchemist to prepare a mutagen while under the effect of another. (last 10min/level take 60min to make)

At most this adds some versatility to the Mutagen feature. It does not invalidate Infuse mutagen as that discovery allows multiple doses to be ready at a moments notice.


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Brf wrote:
I am still not sure where you are getting the idea that an inert mutagen becomes usable when it is picked up by a alchemist. The text states that it only becomes active if it is the only one created by the alchemist the brewed it. Otherwise the text stating the alchemist can only have one mutagen at a time becomes moot, since the alchemist could put one mutagen down, allowing it to become inert, and simply brew a second, and third, and tenth. Creating a second mutagen causes the first to become not only "inert", but also completely unusable.

From here, bolding mine:

PRD, Mutagens wrote
" As with an extract or bomb, a mutagen that is not in an alchemist’s possession becomes inert until an alchemist picks it up again."

What are you basing the completely unusable idea on? From the language we have it appears that a mutagen can be either maintained or inert, and if inert it becomes maintained if picked up by an Alchemist who is not otherwise maintaining a mutagen.


Thornborn wrote:
Poor Wandering One wrote:
...an unblock-able means of sending secure, if quite limited messages.
The Light cantrip works similarly. I don't think it's transplanar.

How? A dispell or an antimagic field shuts the cantrip down. Not so the mutagen.

Or am I missing something?

I don't think it is transplanar either but if the 3 state solution is correct it has to be. Even ignoring the planar issue the ability to send an unblockable message is quite the trick for a vial of nonmagical regents.

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