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458 posts. 1 review. No lists. 1 wishlist.


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Chris Kenney wrote:
Aelryinth wrote:

Continual Flame is at will ability of Torch Archons. it costs NOTHING to do massive amounts of Continual Flames. You could light a city in a day or two by Calling up an Archon or two and having them drop CF's where instructed for a nominal fee.


In addition to the above, you also can't actually do this - Summoned creatures can't use spell-likes with an expensive material component (or, more likely, won't.) Continual Flame requires 50 gp of ruby dust.

That's why he said "Called", not "summoned". He's proposing using one of the longer lasting binding spells that actually bring the creature to you.

richard develyn wrote:
Certainly two humans (say) who do not have any of a particular bloodline in their genes cannot produce a sorcerer of that bloodline.

Unless you're exposed to a particular catalyst while pregnant(or the baby is later). Or the baby is destined for greatness. Or one of the many things that cause sorcerers to pop.

I think it's like Aasimar. Having it makes it possible, but there's absolutely no guarantee, even if both parents are Aasimar.

Zark wrote:
We disagree on some stuff and that is cool. I think we should drop this.

We are derailing things a bit, perhaps. Aight for now, though I reserve the option of discussing this particular topic further in other threads if it's brought up there at a later time.

Zark wrote:

I meant using the abilities on their own. Counterspelling may not seem to be terribly OP, but regardless of Dispel Checks this ability is very powerful, especially when the PC faces a Boss with this ability (boss being higher levels than the PC’s) or when the PC’s fighting creatures that cast spells that can easily be Counterspelled. This ability can easily kill a blaster that mostly relies on adding meta magic to low level spells such as fireballs.

As for Quick Study, we seem to agree. I just want to point out that I’m in no way saying it is too good to use in battle. It is actually rather awkward to use in battle, the problem is more that it can be use before and after the battle. The balancing factor of the class is its limitation. Removing the limitation is to remove the balance. Pearls of power are cheap and add Quick Study and you have a full arcane caster that is far better than the Sorcerer. As pointed out by Deadmanwalking, the wizard is still probably just as good as the Arcanist (or even more powerful).

Ultimately, a boss with the ability will be ridiculously powerful even if you put a limit on the number of times per day. Bosses are generally by default the highest example of the 15 minute adventuring day. Even with a limit of 1+Cha/day, that's still 3-5 spells a higher CL boss will be able to semi-reliably shut down. On the other hand, they're giving up the ability to Quicken spells against you. Balancing for use by a nova-ready boss seems silly to me.

As for blasters, I hadn't considered a possible interpretation that it would be the level of the unadjusted spell that determines the level of the spell needed to be expended as part of the action. If so, then that might screw over blasters a good bit. But I'm going with the interpretation that it's dependent on the spell slot used to cast the spell. If that's incorrect, then that's something that needs to be addressed. If not, you're still expending a valuable resource(spells) to only have a chance at countering something. It does incentivize the heck out of boosting your caster stat if you're building a counter-spell focused arcanist.

Are pearls of power usable by the Arcanist? I thought that they'd be forced to use the Runestone of Power instead by the way their spells work. Not much better, but twice the cost, so at least there's that. That said, if they put an X+Cha/day limit on Quick Study, I don't think it would significantly weaken the class. Realistically, how often will you need it more than 2-3 times a day anyway?

Aside from that, if it doesn't represent power creep over the wizard, I can't really call a full arcane casting class power creep.

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LazarX wrote:

The only opportunity you'd likely be able to get that as a deadite would be when you're up for Pharasma's Judgement.

Which means at that point, no matter what happens, you're not coming back to tell the tale.

The epicness of the tale is in defying impossible odds. You don't get remembered forever for going quietly into the night, you get it by running like hell and getting lucky enough on a res to escape in the nick of time.

Or you hope it amused Cayden enough that he tosses you a resurrection in the nick of time and makes you into his new champion or something.

Zark wrote:

I specifically thinking about the Counterspell and Quick Study Arcanist exploit. Both need a nerf.

At limit to how many times per day Quick Study can Counterspell can be used would be a simple fix.

Actually, I think a lot of the Arcanist exploit should come with a limit of uses per day. Just like the Oracle.

Doesn't the action on Quick Study prevent it from being used with the Counterspell Exploit(or did you just mean using it on its own)? Also, successfully countering still requires a Dispel Check, does it not?

Counterspelling doesn't seem too terribly OP, especially since you're using up your limited number of spell slots on a less than sure thing. As for quick study, it might be a bit powerful if you can find a way to get the points to use it often, so I'll give you that one.

I'm not sure if this is meant to be a compendium where we all discuss our house rules or if it's supposed to be about the specific rules a particular table has come up with, but here's my addition. If it was meant to be the latter, please accept my apologies.

raverbane wrote:
Overall, I really enjoy the Technology Guide and I think it will add a lot to our games. There are a few things that I don't see eye to book spine with and making a few house rules.

In ours, the tech is being adapted by an Earthling who has only read about it. Along the way, a few adaptations are being made, including the addition of power displays. We're also considering bio-locks to prevent enemies from stealing our weapons to use against us.

The first is Aetheric Batteries. These are built into the device and recharge once per day as long as you aren't in a null-magic zone. Still debating price, but leaning towards 10x the cost of a regular battery. This is to adjust for the fact that we don't really have access to generators.

The second is a spell accessible only to one character at the moment which allows the creation of temporary extra-dimensional technological crafting lab. It also allows for faster crafting of all magic or technological items since the GM for the campaign wants to allow crafting to be viable without adding in too much extra downtime in game.

The third is a whole new class of construct: Magitech constructs. Based on a hybrid of clockwork and robotic constructs, they're highly modular, allowing the implantation of numerous technological gadgets. This was purely for making an Iron Man suit, more or less.

Some of these might show up as artifacts when we run Iron Gods. The GM for that hasn't decided.

Out of curiosity, has anyone worked out a system for creating and pricing AI? We're leaning towards using Leadership as the way to get one, but constructing one has also been discussed, though we haven't come up with a pricing scheme we're happy with.

Zark wrote:
Arcanist –I like the concept and it fills a much needed niche, a more flexible spontaious caster, but my gut feeling fells that is overpowered.

While the exploits seem stronger than Bloodlines and bonus feats/generic school powers to me, I'm not sure I'd call it overpowered, at least not compared to the sorcerer or wizard.

The lower number of spells per day(unless you go school specialist) really feels like it could hurt a fair bit.

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Conumbra wrote:
So, a friend proposed an interesting wrinkle to this problem. Why hasn't someone (a government, an extremely wealthy individual, etc.) contracted out a caster (or cast the magic themselves, assuming said wealthy person is an arcane caster) to create permanent teleportation circles to link various parts of the world in exceedingly rapid trade? Surely they'd make their money back long term.

Convenience vs. Security, I'd imagine. If there's no physical way to block it(like Stargate SG1's iris), there'd be nothing to do to prevent a hostile army from porting over en masse short of a garrison large enough to neutralize each wave before the whole area is overrun.

Edit: That said, you could mitigate the threat by having the terminus be outside of a city, preferably far away enough to allow a smaller garrison to put out an alert and give the city time to respond. You'd still end up with a hostile army in the middle of your nation, but at least it wouldn't be too bad. Other options include having a central outgoing terminus in a trade hub that has teleportation circles that output inside the same nation's borders, but near the edge, since they're one way devices. It wouldn't be quite as convenient, but it would address the security issue.

In a modern setting, the sheer volume of freight would make it impractical to use since you'd have to transport to the circle, load into smaller conveyance(a cart of some kind, probably) and then load back into a larger freight vehicle. In that case, circles would be relegated to personnel transport(and the occasional overnight type package). You'd need something on the level of an elf gate that you could drive whole trucks through.

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Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
Poldaran wrote:
Splode wrote:


Gods don't have to like everyone.
So what you're saying is that slapping Pharasma's backside as you get resurrected may be a bad idea even if it's totally in character?
Totally worth it

"Let me tell you about how I got my first mythic tier..." :P

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Splode wrote:


Gods don't have to like everyone.

So what you're saying is that slapping Pharasma's backside as you get resurrected may be a bad idea even if it's totally in character?

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deusvult wrote:
Kill off enough of Golarion's peasantry and serfs, and the labor will have to be made up by SOMETHING. Magical technologies would be a ready answer for every day applications once there are no longer enough slaves/peasants/serfs to go around to empty all the chamber pots, harvest all the grain, etc.

That would make for a great arc villain for a larger campaign.

Latrecis wrote:

"No, you are not torturing that goblin for information."

"No, you are not lying to the merchant about what you did to his daughter. At least I am not lying for you."
"No, you are not animating the dead bugbear to help us fight <blank>"
And so on.

That's why you never ask the paladin for permission. Forgiveness is easier to get.

chaoseffect wrote:
I don't really see how it's any more viable then roaming around killing s*#& for their money as per most adventurers. And those guys end up richer than Bill Gates in the long run, as per the rules.

I don't know if I'd say it's that far. They seem like they'd be more along the lines of a Powerball winner at 20th if we're comparing their ability to buy bread at retail price.

And while you might have to murderhobo quite a few villains to get there, at least you wouldn't be selling your own children.

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On a semi-related note, the redesigned PRD looks rather nice. Now I can work on stuff at work without having to drag my Tech guide with me.

Since you're hinting at all sorts of things for the AP, I'm curious if there are plans to have the gravity and radiation based rocket launchers hinted at in the weapon's description make an appearance.

James Jacobs wrote:
Poldaran wrote:

Yay! It's here. I'm saddened that power armor is an artifact, but at the same time, the ASF was too high for me to use it for my plan anyway. I'll have to talk to my GM about using the section about making tech versions of magical items to reskin my previously planned clockwork construct armor into "power armor".

Aside from that, loving much of the stuff in here.

It's basically an artifact because the total gp cost went over 200,000 gp. Same reason we made the autodoc an artifact.

I figured it was probably something like that. It's not like I could get the ASF down enough to make it viable for a wizard anyway without just investing in an ungodly number of still spell rods.

James Jacobs wrote:
Rocket launchers should have the touch ability.

And the rocket launcher goes back on the table. Just when I thought I'd made a decision.

Askren wrote:
Now here's the important part: I really need to make sure that no matter what, the PCs don't decide to hunt him down between Book 1 and Book 2. We all know that them checking his house in Magnimar or his family manor before they should is the easiest way to bring the entire narrative crashing in on itself, so if they do head that way, I'll need to rope them back in with the murders.

You'll want to make him seem a bit off right now, but not dangerous. Not yet. Definitely a bit creepy. But if you play it off as him just being a bit strange since his wife died, you'll make it sound like you're setting him up to do something crazy to try to bring his dead wife back.

Alternatively, set him up as an obvious red herring. Aldern was too forward, maybe even a bit grabby or something. She kicked him out. A few days later, she noticed that someone was following her and whatnot, but never got a look at who it was. At the same time, from a different source, mention that Tsuto(or his body) has escaped(gone missing). Make it sound ominous, but don't give them anything more than that.

If done right, they should dismiss Aldern for now, figuring he's just a red herring. They should spend the between books 1/2 looking for Tsuto, who is conveniently hard to find. And later, when the letters start appearing, let each of them contain a single symbol from the Minkaian script. Symbols for words like "Love", "Eternity", "Family" and such.

Then, when the time is right, they find Tsuto's body. With another note attached. "Now, no one will stand between us, my love." or something like that. And the Minkaian symbol on that one? Regardless of what it means, someone remembers..."Wait. Didn't Aldern Foxglove have that symbol tattooed on his arm?"

Drakol wrote:
- Personally, there are a few deeds that do not work with Slow Firing (Dead Shot for example), however the Techslinger gives the ability to use Deeds with Heavy Weapons. Did they really think about this at all?

Some deeds will work with slow firing weapons and others won't, I'd imagine. Also, I could have sworn that at least one heavy weapon wasn't slow firing.

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Troodos wrote:
Guess I'll have to house rule it in, whats the point of getting to be a cyborg if you can't be General Grievous?

You could just start out with a Kasatha to get the required number of limbs.

James Jacobs wrote:
Once you have the laser pistol, you can make it a +1 laser pistol using Master Craftsman.
James Jacobs wrote:

An inferno pistol can't deal "weapon damage." It deals fire damage, and any additions to that from Deadly Aim or sneak attack or whatever is the same type of damage as the type generated by the weapon.

So in this case it's all fire damage.

Is the possibility of a +1 Flaming Laser negated by the fact that it's not technically a projectile weapon(ditto for the other elemental enchants and the other technological beam type weapons)? Because if not, I could actually see sometimes using the elemental enchants now.

Yay! It's here. I'm saddened that power armor is an artifact, but at the same time, the ASF was too high for me to use it for my plan anyway. I'll have to talk to my GM about using the section about making tech versions of magical items to reskin my previously planned clockwork construct armor into "power armor".

Aside from that, loving much of the stuff in here.

Steven "Troll" O'Neal wrote:
jimibones83 wrote:
Poldaran wrote:
I just want to know why UPS is holding my package in a small town in Arizona for this long.
I noticed the same thing a few times recently and then I'd just get my package all of a sudden. It seems like Paizo is shipping them UPS but then UPS hands it off to another carrier at some point if it will save them cost. I'm not positive, it just seems kinda like that's whats going on.
UPS sometimes uses the USPS for some deliveries when it's cheaper.

I don't have a problem with that. I just wish they'd post when the handoff was made in a timely fashion and give me the new tracking number.

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StarMartyr365 wrote:

I may have to do questionable things to get this and the ACG now because waiting until payday next week is out of the question. I put a bunch of campaign development on hold until this came out so I could follow Piazo's lead and not reinvent the wheel.


There's always plasma donation. And it would be a fun kind of coincidence to buy a book with rules for donating plasma with extreme prejudice by donating plasma at a clinic.

I just want to know why UPS is holding my package in a small town in Arizona for this long.

Tequila Sunrise wrote:
Wow, didn't know that raise dead could be used on a sci-fi thread!

Sure you did. It's just not a spell. It's any number of technobabbly solutions. I can think of two just from Star Trek movies.

LazarX wrote:
It's been more or less stated in board discussion about the AP, because that's also the classic period of Lovecraft's Mythos, which is real popular among the folks at Paizo.

I guess I can see that, though I've always felt that Lovecraftian horror works best when set during the time of the reader. The contrast of the familiar with the unknowable grants it a surreal quality that I think works particularly well.

Doomed Hero wrote:
Yes that's cannon. Reign of Winter pretty much confirms it.

Yeah, that's what I was talking about, but the way they get there doesn't necessarily preclude time travel also being part of it. In the interest of not further derailing the adventure's journal, I'll just leave it at that.

I'm looking forward to seeing where this goes and what other characters are later introduced. I'm also curious as to current character plans(prestige classes, character focii and such), but I'll wait to see how those are brought about in the narrative.

LazarX wrote:
I'd have given you major points if your character had come from 1918 Earth which where Earth is currently synched with Golarion as far as it's timeline goes.

Has that actually been confirmed? I was under the assumption that it was open to interpretation, considering the magic used to travel between the two

in that one AP
is from a tradition that makes it more or less not really bound to normal things like the natural flow of time(existing outside normality being a bit of a theme I seem to recall).

Also, I read the prologue title in Kirito's voice. ^_^

Edit: For the record, I really hate how spoilers don't just nest in the text.

Analise Rodhire wrote:

This is my solemn tribute to Kyle.

Playing her for Iron Gods.

And, yes, just dotting the thread.

If you start a journal for your Iron Gods campaign, please link to it.

Axial wrote:
Poldaran wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Implanted weapons ... one-handed firearms.

I know what I must do. It is time for me to convince the party barbarian. My technology based character could do no less.

The problem is that Guts has a cannon in his arm, not a pistol. Maybe that's the closest you can get to being him, though.

That, and playing as a Titan Mauler. :)

I have a GM that is a Berserk fanatic. And the barbarian IS, in fact, a Titan Mauler. I'm sure I could convince him to let it fly. At least a little.

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James Jacobs wrote:
Implanted weapons ... one-handed firearms.

I know what I must do. It is time for me to convince the party barbarian. My technology based character could do no less.

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Sara Marie wrote:
Odraude wrote:
Which person must I give proper virgin sacrifice speak with to make this a reality? ;)
I am also not the Dark God you must appease for that, however, as his herald, I will note you may want to double check that the order has your correct shipping and billing information.

Fidget of Impatience has warp-digivolved into Magic Dance of Happiness.

Erik Mona wrote:

After looking over the copy I just got this evening, I have to say I am now certain that we did not pack enough for Gen Con. I think this book is going to be HUGE. It is absolutely gorgeous, and contains all kinds of amazing items that open up all kind of new possibilities for Pathfinder campaigns.

You could, if you wanted to, use it as the basis for a full-on science fiction campaign if you wanted to. It turned out even better than I imagined it would.

Why must you torment me so?!

Also, time to rework one of my characters' feats. Again. On a related note, anyone able to tell me what the ASF is for power armor?

David M Mallon wrote:

CG human wizard 2 / sorcerer 2

Str 11, Dex 14, Con 10, Int 16, Wis 12, Cha 10

According to the test, I'm a pretty good candidate for the "Worst PC Ever" thread.

You may be multiclassed, but at least you've got a decent caster stat for one of them. There have been several instances in thread where folks had 10 in their primary caster stat.

Tomi Heikkinen wrote:
I mean, game mechanics-wise, do you simply utilize (with permission) your metaknowledge of the world and inject that to "Kyle's consciousness" or is it the GM revealing the facts and then you a) utilize them in-game and/or b) write them into the story (according to what you can safely argue that Kyle knows of the world)?

Ah, those. Actually, Kyle has a +9 on his absolute worst knowledge skill. On each of those instances, he made the DC to identify things as set either by the general rules(Lamia), the AP or the GM.

Sadly, no game last night, because someone felt more like watching PewDiePie and other game vids than actually game.

Tomi Heikkinen wrote:


I read your journal in one go and I simply love it.

You've made Kyle into a this wonderful carefree, over-confident, horny wiz kid. But he's growing up as the story progresses.

Does Kyle really have all that meta-knowledge about the world and its inhabitants available during when you play, or do you fill in the blanks as you write? I'd love to have him explain the backgrounds in our adventure...

EDIT: One of my favourite bits for some reason, made me LOL so hard :D


I managed to break away from Aurora’s mind and focused on Aldern. He was just as close to panic as Iesha. “Dear, why don’t we head out into the garden and pick some fresh herbs. I bet some of that tarragon would go splendidly with the sausage our guest has brought with him.”

From in the kitchen, Lenn called out, “I like sausage.”

One thing I note you've stopped writing those scribbles in the margins! Doesn't Aurora get to read his journal anymore :) ?

He's going through a period of madness right now, as potentially evidenced by the fact that he's seeing Dark Souls style messages everywhere. And I mean everywhere. He'll only comment on them when they're relevant, but they're always there. As such, he's been "keeping it in a magical cipher".


With the worry that Lucrecia might be a more powerful spell caster than her sister, and the possibility that they might have had more powerful casters on their side, I have decided to encrypt my journal using a magical cipher. I will tell you explicitly how to unlock it, and anyone from my home should have little trouble unlocking it. Here goes:

1. Whistle the theme tune to MASH.
2. Using a directional light source, spell out the name of Maxwell Dillon’s alter ego in Morse Code. If you need a further hint: Spiderman.
3. The number of the Beast, multiplied by thirteen, divided by three then converted to binary. Just write it on the page.

I apologize, Aurora, that you won’t be able to read beyond this point. Once the danger has passed, I’ll plan on unlocking it for you.

The truth is that there is no enchantment on it. He's just writing it in code. Eventually that will come up and Aurora will catch up to what's happening, but for now, he can't share his madness with the others. Or is it madness? Could he instead have another presence in his head? Or maybe his subconscious is trying to communicate, couldn't and decided to just screw with him?

I've already gotten a couple side adventures written. One is from Aurora's point of view and another alternates between the two of them so you can get both perspectives as they experience events.

On the meta-knowledge thing, generally, anything Kyle writes is something he's stumbled on or has put in either as a way to try to make sense of something or via sarcasm. He's a gamer, so he's trying to interpret things out of the ordinary in gaming terms. When he names a spell by the book's name, it's just the name he's happened to start calling it. Generally speaking, I'd imagine most spells are more florid in description than the game style ones he uses. Beyond that, he's studied the world like a man possessed. He has knowledge skills out the wahoo and I can generally justify most knowledges about the world around him. Though, if you could point out specific examples, I can elaborate further.

Out of curiosity, did you happen to check out the backstory? Funny thing is, this whole character concept started out as a way to write the story of how Samantha got back to Golarion after she got snatched away in my first campaign as a GM. The players did so much to save her that I felt she deserved a bit more even though they failed. Then, when we decided to play Runelords, I had this character sitting around all ready to go and decided to run with it.

And I agree. The random Lenn moments are some of the best parts of the game. I'm really hoping to have more to share after tonight's Pathfinder session, though I'm not sure if the Runelords GM has anything prepared yet or if we'll be running more of my campaign.

Glad to have you on board the American Wizard train. I have tentative approval to pull things from the Technology Guide for Kyle to play with as long as it doesn't get too ridiculous, so it should get interesting in the future.

James Jacobs wrote:
Poldaran wrote:
Aside from needing proper labs, will the items have crafting requirements that will favor any particular classes? As it stands, it's not all that hard to pick up Master Craftsman as a martial, but a caster that can provide pre-req spells has a lower DC(sometimes much lower) unless the martial gets creative.
Not really, although I guess classes who gain Knowledge (engineering) as a class skill will have a slight advantage.

That sounds incredibly reasonable.

Pillbug Toenibbler wrote:
Poldaran wrote:
It's officially August. Time to start fidgeting uncontrollably.
If you think that'll help, I'll start taking on HFCS and espresso intravenously until I'm fidgeting like a chihuahua in a paint shaker.

I'm not sure it'll help, but I can't imagine it'll slow it down any, either. I'm just not good at waiting for things.

It's officially August. Time to start fidgeting uncontrollably.

Mark Moreland wrote:
While technically, yes, crafting technology is covered in the book, doing do requires access to specific manufacturing facilities—military labs, pharmaceutical labs, graviton labs, and so on—which, at least in Golarion, are not common. A GM could make them more easily accessible such that players could craft their own technological items, as long as they possessed the right feats and skills. It really depends on the level of technology a GM wants in her campaign. The rules are there, but the assumption is that these items are found treasure rather than something you can just make without much effort. The "magic shop in every town" effect is something I, at least, tried not to have permeate this book too much, so that tech remains special and mysterious instead of mainstream.

Aside from needing proper labs, will the items have crafting requirements that will favor any particular classes? As it stands, it's not all that hard to pick up Master Craftsman as a martial, but a caster that can provide pre-req spells has a lower DC(sometimes much lower) unless the martial gets creative.

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James Jacobs wrote:
Odraude wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Odraude wrote:
Honestly, I can't imagine it would be hard to filing off some serial numbers and make it generic. Especially for things like lasers and AI and vortex guns and such. Little conversion and filing and boom, should be a piece of cake.
You are 100% correct.
Sweet. Am I 100% correct in thinking that this book has rules for a gravity gun? :D

Not 100% correct, no.

Because they're called gravity pistols and gravity rifles. There's other graviton-based devices in the book too—in fact, graviton tech is one of the more powerful types of technological themes in the book, since they do force damage and have force effects.

Great googly moogly.

I think I love you all. Also, is it August yet? This month has gone on for at least six weeks at this point.

Tomi Heikkinen wrote:

*casts and enchantment spell on Poldaran*

.. you must read all that I post... You must....

Of course I'll read more of your story posts.

Starting right after my next two adventures(since the next one is supposed to be a side quest, which is what has held up progress since the GM has to do actual prep and is too easily distracted to do so). Until then...I'll just have to wait.

This is for Ilori

I cheered when I read that. Confused the heck out of the people in the lobby here at work. :P

And damn that Lucrezia for escaping for you as well.

NobodysHome wrote:

These are just getting better and better and better...

...and I just had to make a massive Will save to avoid any spoilers at all...

They've officially caught up to where our campaign is semi-stalled(I'm this >| |< close to hiding the GM's PS Vita until he runs another adventure). So now I get to make daily will saves not to read further.

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James Jacobs wrote:
We're only a few weeks away... have patience! ;-)
Ambrose Bierce wrote:
Patience, n. A minor form of despair, disguised as a virtue.

Orthos wrote:
Blackbot wrote:
Method 2: I keep on hitting the paladin. He can take it. ;)
This is our Age of Worms game in a nutshell. =)

That was also the modus operandi in my very first campaign. Unfortunately, it just happened to be the MO of one of the other characters.

I couldn't tell you how many times I heard the words "I'll throw a grenade in the pit. Obrek can take it." or "There's only one enemy and I want to cast Lightning Arc. How's Obrek's health looking?"

Kelarith wrote:
What I do from that point though is make sure that if the character comes back, it comes with some sort of story/baggage. Poldaran points out some good ways to do that, but you can also use this to introduce some complication to the campaign ;).

Indeed. I just named the laziest ways that I would do it.

Honestly, if it were me, I'd probably have them sometime in a later book having to deal with Nualia's fully grown demonic offspring at some later date...

and it would bear a striking resemblance to one of the PCs. And before anyone's worse than you think, unless your thought involved face huggers.

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There's a part of me that really wants this for my wizard. There's another part of me attacking the first part with a baseball bat.

If everyone had died, I might have suggested Deus Ex Shalelu. Or is it Shalelu Ex Machina? I can never recall.

Anyway, it all depends on what the Sorcerer's character wants to do and whether the other players are still wanting to play those particular characters. Here are my suggestions:

1)Sorcerer wants to rescue. Party wants to be rescued.
Players start out playing Sorcerer and his hired mercenaries. Other PCs found alive and awaiting sacrifice in Thistletop dungeon. Let players know that foes will not always leave them alive, but Nualia wanted a sacrifice for her ascendance ceremony and saved them.

2)Sorcerer is frightened and runs away. Player deems him retired. Other PCs want to keep playing.
PCs awaken in dungeon awaiting sacrifice, along with Sorc player's new character, who was captured by goblins a few weeks ago. Let players know that foes will not always leave them alive, but Nualia wanted a sacrifice for her ascendance ceremony and saved them.

3)Sorcerer and other players want to keep playing character, but Sorc not willing to rescue.
Deus Ex Shalelu. Shalelu rescues them. Sorcerer receives drawback relating to his fear. Nervous, Doubt or a simple -2 to saves vs. Fear, perhaps? The other PCs are scarred by their experiences getting tortured by the goblins and gain a drawback from that. Might I suggest Burned? Give them a chance to recover from the drawbacks later, either via a sidequest, RP or spending some gold on it. But not until at least midway through book 2 or so.

4)Sorc wants to keep playing, other players want to roll new characters.
This one is fairly self explanatory.

Wheldrake wrote:
TPKs always feel bad, but IMHO they can be important for maintaining the sense of vulnerability and danger. Sure, if it fits the story, you can talk about recovering the bodies for raise dead. But many times this just isn't plausible.

I agree that deaths should come with penalties(even if it's only the gold cost of a raise dead), but this early on in the game, I wouldn't force the players to roll up completely new characters if they still want to play these.

Neo2151 wrote:

Re: Bloodrager - My problems with bloodrager is that it's spell list is awful and unpolished (compare and contrast lvl 3 and lvl 4 lists) and I'm not sure if the "bloodline" works for the prereq (I guess it'd be a GM call).

[Ideally Bloodrager would be my first choice, but they just really dropped the ball on it's spell lists. :( ]

Yeah, Bloodrager spell lists are just awful. But in my opinion, if you want to be an up close and personal fighter with a ton of HP and the ability to up your Breath/Noxious Bite DCs, gain more rage rounds(not to mention having 8 more rounds from class levels than the proposed Barb/Sorc split) and wear medium armor, it's worth the lack of reasonably decent spells if your party has another arcane caster to cover it.

As it is, you'll already be down 4 caster levels if you're going with the proposed split, which puts you at fifth level spells at level 15, which is a bit of a downside for a non-BR build(plus you'll be down a couple BAB).

While you're talking to the GM about things that work with other things, ask if a Robe of Arcane Heritage works with Bloodragers. If not, that's a huge mark against that suggestion. It's a cheap way to add two to your Noxious Bite DC and 4d6 to your breath.

Belabras wrote:
What about just straight Bloodrager into DD?

That's certainly one option that shouldn't be overlooked, assuming its bloodlines play properly with the DD. Spellcasting is a bit diminished, but beyond that, it's a rather nice option.

Neo2151 wrote:
I suppose my biggest concern is I don't want to go the minimum on Cha since it sets my breath DC, but I wanna focus primarily on melee and use spellcasting as a fallback.

The thing to remember with the breath weapon is that you get so very few uses of it per day. With Sorcerous Bloodstrike and a bit of luck with some blasting, you can regain a use, if you're willing to consider that option.

Also, if you were to go Bloodrager, unless it has been changed in the upcoming release, I think your Breath Weapon DC keys off your Con. And since Noxious Bite and Bloodrage both have durations that are tied to your Con...

At which point, I would probably go with something like 14 10 16 10 10 14 and throw the floating points into either Con or Str. Your spellcasting would be a bit diminished(not to mention that Form of the Dragon would only come from your DD SLA), but beyond that, I think it would make for an amazingly decent front liner(one who can wear medium armor without it affect spellcasting, btw), with 2-3 more HP per level than your earlier PB listed while maintaining good breath weapon DC.

With that one, you would need to go eldritch heritage if you wanted the Abyssal Str bonus, but that's fine. I'd use Focused Study at first level as a human to get the required skill focus and two bonus ones(acquired at 8th and 16th levels).

Neo2151 wrote:

How would you GM a Dragon attacking your party?

That's essentially the playstyle I'm shooting for (if possible). :)
So, initial reliance on Nat Weapons and Breath Attack, reinforced by spells (buffs mainly, but also some DD and utility - avoiding debuffs and SoS/SoD).

Depends on the terrain and the dragon, really. I've had a red dragon the party met in the field that relied completely on ranged spells and flyby attacks, a black dragon who grappled a foe, pulled it under the swamp and tried to drown it and a white dragon that more or less went toe to toe with the party because they cornered it in its lair.

Ultimately, I'd build for buffs and blasts if I were building a DD. Blasts would be used for large groups of foes and buffs for allowing me to go toe to toe with solo encounters. Buffs don't require much in the way of feats, while blasts do, so that part is okay. I'd see what combat feats you need to make melee work like you want and go from there.

If you have enough spare feats after that to make blasting worthwhile, it might be worth considering Wiz(Admix)1, Sorc(Xblood Draconic/Orc)1, Martial Class 3 -> DD.

If not, it might be worth using a couple feats instead to go Wiz(Transmutation)1, Sorc(Xblood Draconic/Pit Touched?)1, Martial Class 3 -> DD with Eldritch Heritaging an Abyssal. This would be a more melee-focused way of doing it. I built a similar DD as a sub boss once and he was fairly brutal in melee.

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Dragon78 wrote:
I want sci-fi in my pathfinder, not "syfy";)

Oh, I don't know about that...

Sharknado DC 22
Mansquito DC 12
Lorenzo Lamas DC "Whatever the hell the plot demands"

Dragon78 wrote:
I wish august would hurry up and get here.

I know, right? Between this and my vacation first week of August, this has felt like the longest July ever.

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