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Ethereal Marauder

Phasics's page

Goblin Squad Member. 2,975 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 1 alias.


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So hard to find ways to improve damage on (Su) damage abilites

I feel almost loathed to ask, but can someone put me out of my misery.

Acid Jet (Su) which is a supernatural ranged touch attack. can it be used with Vital Strike to double the dice.

Fraust wrote:
Why would you want to Paizo to force your playstyle on their entire audience?

In this case I'm fairly certain a GM could simply choose not to impose said global rules. Just like he can choose not to use material from any one of a number of existing supplements.

I was thinking the other day that it is pretty much a lost cause to try and foresee every possible combination of character build. Invariably some combination will be far superior to others.

However as your all probably aware this can sometimes cause issues in group dynamics where there is a power disparity between the optimised and un-optimised in the group.

So it got me to thinking how could you possibly curb things you can't even foresee in an effort to keep the playing field vaguely level ?

What if paizo released a new type of rule, call it a global rule. A simple yet definitive cap to what characters can and can't do. so that even if it says in your class you can get 3 attacks at first level a global rule might say "sorry you can only attack once per 4 character levels per round". Perhaps you class will lets you cast 2 or 3 spells per rounds "sorry global rule says maximum one spell per round".

Now I have no idea exactly what global rules would be appropriate to encapsulate pathfinder but it seems a few simple rules that specifically trumps anything you might find in a class or feat seems like it might just curb the top end without requiring a massive number of specific rules to combat certain combinations.

I don't know. How would you feel about a small set of global rules that put level caps on very basic mechanics like number of attacks and the like? You could still make your character however you want, but you might not be able to use him to his full extent until he achieves a sufficiently high level.

14 14 14 12 10 8 ,for everyone, assign as you please.

In your mind is there any difference between role playing a character with a single alignment e.g. Lawful vs a character with a Lawful Neutral alignment.

For example where a Lawful Neutral character might make decisions influenced strongly by thier relation to the law the neutral part of their alignment would also have them consider the moral implications on the scale of good and evil.

However a Purely Lawful character might act exclusively with the regard to the law to the exclusion of all else. the question of good or evil would simply never enter into their mind.

In a way a single axis alignment could represent a mental disorder in the character. for example if a characters mind can't comprehend the difference between good and evil and base their actions on how lawful or chaotic they are could such a person ever detect as good or evil ?

In the same way a character acting purely Good with no concept of law of chaos can they ever detect as such based on the choices they make ?

Guang wrote:
d&d monster stats are based on an insane degree of character advancement. If you use them in other systems, you're honestly better off porting the concepts and reinventing the stats.
Thinking of doing it the other way around. Reinventing the stats on PC attack and damage to match Pathfinder beasties. I'm finding it's tougher than it looks, so looking to see what kind of warnings about specific things that must be addressed you all might have.

Okay two things.

First I assume the epicrpg system has existing monsters built into the system ? if this is the case your best option by far is to find monsters in epicrpg that are similar or close and just reskin (call them pf equivalent) and tweak them to make sense. Special abilities added for flavor. that way the mechanics hold which is all that will matter for you game.

second a quick question,
If your modifying epicrpg PC stats to fall in line with pathfinder PC's so you can use PF beasties , what is going to be left of the EpicRPG character mechanics ?

I mean I assume the reason your doing this is because you like certain epicrpg mechanics over pathfinder mechanics but if your going to be changing some of them how much of the epicrpg is left ? enough to bother not just porting epicrpg characters completely over to pathfinder characters and playing within this system?

honestly there is no meaningful general advice that can be offered because a level-less system could entail anything.

Hell Fiasco is a level-less role playing system. How do you use the bestiary in Fiasco. If you say there is an Orc, there's an Orc and he/she pretty much acts like everyone at the table thinks and Orc should act.

Unless of course you want advice on how to half-ass it in which case that exactly what you do.

You want your players to fight Orcs so make them fight Orcs, you want it to be a tough fight so make whatever checks or conditions in the level-less system harder to meet. You want them to fight a Dragon okay they fight a dragon, if you want them to lose just set it up so they'll lose.

If you want advice which might actually be useful then you really need to provide more information.

what level-less system ?

Just a little question on size pricing in the ARG for a player who wants to be large without being large if that makes sense.

If Large is 7RP (always large)

Change Shape (Su) is 3RP lesser and 6RP greater, which is effectively just alter shape (medium or small as a std action, unlimited use)

Lesser Spell like ability (Sp)
Enlarge Person 1RP
Reduce Person 1RP

Now I get the pricing differences are mainly due to the benefits of having an ability Su instead of Sp or always on in the case of just being large.

But how might one price a racial ability where as a std action they can assume small, medium or large form as an Su ability (gear resize) without
any stat CMB/CMD, AC etc changes just a simple okay your big and now your small lets not fuss over the details.

how might one go about pricing that using the ARG rules as a guide ?

Peaceful coexistence can be achieved via the following method

Rock Falls you all Die

Reroll characters


ummm there's a much easier way

what happens during the day that happens less at night ?


if they try sleeping during the day I'd say they keep getting woken up by town noise, result Fatigued until they get a good nights sleep.

if they get cute with earplugs eyemask, have them roll perception at -40 while asleep if they fail they wake up to find they were robbed during the day.

if they leave someone on watch during the day, perfect a PC you can interact with.

Abraham spalding wrote:

Which would be my argument for an ability that increases damage dealt and spell DC while raging.

My idea was the following:

Rampaging spell
Replaces uncanny dodge, imp uncanny dodge, and the damage reduction.
when casting a spell that does damage adds class level to the spell damage, double when raging. at the damage reduction levels it also increases the spell dc by 1 when raging. the dc increase increases each time the bloodrager would have gotten another point of DR.

Same diff really.

your either adding a bunch of special rules to augment existing spells to perform at an adequate level
you cut out the middleman and make new spell/spell like abilites that perform at the appropriate level.

considering they've stated they're looking into a bloodrager spell list I'd say they're just going to create spell that will simply bypass the limitations of existing level 1-4 spells. or spells that will augment melee attacks (although this is starting to tread on the magus)

Also there one other issue of the ole globe of invulnerability which would effectively negate any offensive spells a bloodrager might want to throw.

christos gurd wrote:
@SUZ, However finding a class with 2 capstone abilities regardless of it's source seems over powered.

Capstones should never factor into class comparisons because the majority of people will never use them. If you do ever get the play your character at 20th its invariable for only a short period of time, long enough to feel godly before everyone gets bored and wants to start a new campaign.

1 person marked this as a favorite.

the problem with a spell level 1-4 caster is the spells don't have the DC's to make effective offensive spells by the time you access them.

so either they self target and buff ...boring or you give them a bunch of attack roll no save spells where the DC doesn't factor in.


instead of giving them a spell list you give them access to a large suite of spell like abilities that have increasing DC's with hit dice.

either way its a cool class purely as a full BAB CHA class would make a fun mouth of the party.

I've played this and its much fun

Scared Orc WitchDoctor/Urban Barbarian/Eldrich Knight

High CON huge HP and ok BAB , and wiz/sorc polymorph spells Beast Shape III, Form of the Dragon ;) why yes I am a frontliner :D

For this one you'll have to be using Mythic rules but its fun

Mythic Hexes (Misfortune) and Mythic Ill Omen + Coupled Arcana

Mythic Misfortune hits and automatically causes reroll to all d20 rolls for one round no save. Then coupled arcana lets you fire off a mythic ill omen which adds an additional 2 rerolls and then fire off an arcane surge (another save reroll) with whatever spell you really want to land a save or die like Phantasmal Killer would be appropriate.

And the creature in a single round will have to roll 5d20's and use the lowest to save against the save or die/suck spell you threw at the end of the sequence.

I like those odds ;)

Stome wrote:
I really want to try a life Oracle/Barb/Rage Prophet with this line of thought. Sadly Rage Prophet is pretty bad (you can get higher lvl spells and better BaB with simply a Oracle/Barb multiclass.) Still there might be something workable with this idea. I would have to give it a closer look then I have time for right now.

Rage Prophet is a trap ;)

it'll always fall short of your expectations, I mean it works...kinda, but ...yeah .


Scared Orc Witchdoctor

CON is primary casting stat , start that sucker at 18 and never look back

the more bonus HP you get the more spells you get, makes sense to me :D

Aboleth's Lung + Spectral hand + No water nearby

can't breathe air for multiple hours ? that's a pitty

Noireve wrote:
Phasics wrote:

mwhahaha, okay check this out

Charm person (1st level) + Diplo check + Carry Companion (2nd level)

Result = an inert lil figurine that used to be a problem :D

You could go through an entire campaign just collecting the GM's monsters and NPC's in a sack

Does that even work? By RAW I mean

why wouldn't it ?

mwhahaha, okay check this out

Charm person (1st level) + Diplo check + Carry Companion (2nd level)

Result = an inert lil figurine that used to be a problem :D

You could go through an entire campaign just collecting the GM's monsters and NPC's in a sack

Limp Lash and Aqueous Orb

shame everything except your head is paralysed and that's covered in water. Oh and your constitution ? well its being reduced by 1d6 each round . Oh your needed your constitution to hold your breath, oooo my bad you might actually suffocate in a few rounds then.

And you know Black Tentacles , well I don't think its quite good enough for the above combos, how bout Mythic Black Tentacles instead ? Double attacks per round and another 2d6 acid damage I feel that fixes this underpowered spell ;)

Create Pit and Geyser cast indoors

Creature falls down the pit cast the geyser on the roof directly above the pits and a column of boiling water will fill your pit while pinning them down with an instant waterfall.

Umbranus wrote:

Ok, you mean THIS kind of ridiculous.

The "it is clearly not used as intended and has already been called out as such by the defs, but I still try it" way.

The other posts seemed to be more of the serious type.

I do enjoy the arbitrary nature of oh no you can't do this ridiculous thing because someone cared to errata it...but THIS ridiculous thing well its just fine as it went unnoticed to date.

Balancing ... makes me laugh sometimes ;)

Umbranus wrote:
Phasics wrote:

Create Pit + Wall of Force

a) proper trapped and b) When the pit ends and those inside rise up to be standing on the ground again they get squished between the ground and the wall of force :D

At least with wall of iron or wall of stone there was a ruling that it doesn't work because the pit's opening shifts to the top of the wall.

I would guess that it is the same with wall of force.

oh that's easy fixed, set the wall 1mm above the ground plenty of space of the flesh to spread out underneath :D

Create Pit + Wall of Force

a) proper trapped and b) When the pit ends and those inside rise up to be standing on the ground again they get squished between the ground and the wall of force :D

Good to know

still I feel like it would be cool if you could adventure in more locations within a single scenario with less characters

That said its really cool if you've played RoTR before and are taking a trip down memory lane with the card game :D

Fun game but when I set-up a new scenario I look at the list of locations and feel like I'm missing out using only 4 of 8 locations with 2 characters.

Now short of running 3 characters each there's no easy way to change that. However I'm thinking there might be some work arounds perhaps ?

The issues off the top of my head
- 2 players = 30 cards, 6 players = 90 cards to throw at encounters
- locations for more players are "harder" to deal with and close. This is hard to quantify
- Although not always applicable more character = more cooperative cards being played by others on your turn to assist with encounters.

Now there's quite a few things we can play around with to compensate less characters.

- Allow players to play 2 of each card type from their hand instead of 1
- Allow players to recharge 1 card per turn they would normally need to discard
- Allow players to start the game with more cards in their deck (effectively a higher level character)
- Allow players to start the game with a bigger hand size

Of course the problem is when you start messing around with core mechanics that you break something and make things too easy.

The only other thing I could think of is to break up the scenarios into multiple parts with the villain in the final part.

Think of it like being able to grab a short rest in the middle of the encounter. The short rest would give you the following
- Recharge half of your discard pile into your Deck (players choose cards and can swap between characters)
- Pick the cards in your starting hand

run the 4 locations listed for 2 players with 4 henchmen and no villain
short rest
run the 4 locations listed for 3->6 players with the villain

Any other ideas ?

Lamontius wrote:

I think that you even just compared Grease to level 8 and 9 spells means that Grease wins

nice rhetoric but got an actual example to backup that sentiment ?

notabot wrote:
Phasics wrote:
notabot wrote:
grease is good from level 1 to 20. Even the mighty CLW wand is reduced to pixie stick snacks at level 20. 1d8+1 trying to heal 200 points of damage is funny to watch. A well timed grease can prevent that 200 points from ever happening.

heh I wouldn't exactly say healing 200HP of wound with CLW wand is funny, more something I'd simply hand wave, you burn out the wand and heal 275HP over 5 minutes, there no way I'd actually make someone roll for it at that level.

Grease is a cool spell, but you'd have to have a seriously advantageous situation to be casting grease over level 8-9 I win spells.

I make my players roll every dice of it.

Also why use level 8 and 9 spells when a level one spell works?

interesting you make your players roll every dice to bog down your game with dice rolling over role playing ..... k ..... can't say it's the way I like to play but hey each to their own.

Perhaps you can list 5 common situations where grease is as good or superior to a lv8-9 spell in combat ? Why ? because I'd like to know when would a level one spell work in the place of a lv8-9 spell.

notabot wrote:
grease is good from level 1 to 20. Even the mighty CLW wand is reduced to pixie stick snacks at level 20. 1d8+1 trying to heal 200 points of damage is funny to watch. A well timed grease can prevent that 200 points from ever happening.

heh I wouldn't exactly say healing 200HP of wound with CLW wand is funny, more something I'd simply hand wave, you burn out the wand and heal 275HP over 5 minutes, there no way I'd actually make someone roll for it at that level.

Grease is a cool spell, but you'd have to have a seriously advantageous situation to be casting grease over level 8-9 I win spells.

1st level spell for alchemist 1, cleric 1, oracle 1, druid 1, ranger 1, sorcerer 1, wizard 1, summoner 1

Ant Haul

Triples carrying capacity for 2hrs per level

Wand of Ant Haul would cost 750gp or 375 crafted and offer 100 hours of triple carry capacity, that's a mere 7.5gp per hour. Or Free with any of the above casters above level 4


You know the OP never said best Wizard spell ;)

Best first level spell by far is one that's used FAR more often than any spell listed so far. Not to mentioned a spell that see's heavy use into the mid and even late game.


Of course that's too reactive for some people but things like Litany of Sloth, Gravity Bow and Lead Blades are pretty strong 1st level spell choices ;)

If your GM is going to be handing out Mythic levels then Vital Strike becomes viable, otherwise its going to leave you disappointed. Unless of course the rest of your group is running sub optimal in which case your fit right in and have a great ole time.

But there's really no optimizing with vital strike, just get biggest weapon dice and BAB possible and have at it. it combines with so little there really not much more to say.

If anything vital strike is for natural attackers with single huge attacks.Wild shape into a Tyrannosaur and go to town ;)

Real simple give all your monsters an additional 10HP and then give them all bleed 1 ;) why because they're masochists who wear pain devices that bleed them during combat ;)

YogoZuno wrote:

Simple question - when paralyzed, a character can take purely mental actions. Is Channelling Positive Energy purely mental?

Does the answer change if your holy symbol is worn on an item, like a Wayfinder, or on a shield?

These lines from the rules suggest no

paralyzed "unable to move or act"

Channel "This is a standard action"

Channel "A cleric must be able to present her holy symbol to use this ability"

having your symbol visible is not the same as presenting it. GM could also simply rule that the position you were in when you were paralyzed partially concealed your holy symbol thus it is not fully presented.

Think of it like Barbarian rage.

if you drop in and out of rage you get fatigued, if your immune to fatigue via e.g. lame Oracle curse then you could do it all day with no ill effect.

In fact oracle curses improves at half HD if your taking non oracle levels so your fatigue immune by level 9 with only 1 oracle level

Perhaps you should ask what your actually trying to achieve with this.

If it just for the hell of it you might find the novelty wears thin pretty quickly.

I've played in a game like this before using the Marvel Heroes RPG system. it works well when the characters are VERY defined, Hulk, Iron Man etc and then it becomes fun to see how different people play known Heroes. I played Colossus with Sean Connery accent and a Creepy Perverted Spider man.

Its fun for a laugh but it rarely leads to any serious or interesting roleplay.

As far as doing it with blank slate characters players like to have ownership over their characters once a campaign has started and forcing people to roleplay a certain type of character may be difficult for them and create less roleplay not more as they remain silent for most of the session.

Might I suggested this instead.

Create a pool of characters double or triple what you need (you can have players put some together for each other too). Then spend an entire session with players picking up various character sheets reading them and then introducing themselves in character. Have some set questions for them to answer in character and some hypothetical situations for them to react to in character.

Then each player votes for each of their favorite characters as played by player X, Y, Z. Tally the votes and you get the character that other players voted they best liked you playing, ties are decided by the player who will play them.

You keep your voted character for the entire campaign so you can make it your own but its chosen for you by what others enjoyed your roleplaying as.

arbados wrote:

Where in the description of supernatural abilities does it state that it doesn't require any hand movement or vocal sounds? Yes it does not incur an AoO, but it doesn't say in the description anything in regards to a supernatural ability not requiring the murmuring of some sound?

Same place in the description of supernatural abilities it states that it does require hand movements or vocal sounds.

If you want to add an additional layer of complexity then that's your prerogative.

The simply fact is you have to draw the line somewhere when it comes to rules otherwise you could create an infinitely large rule set to cover every conceivable instance where something can or can't be done.

Things like this are exactly why a GM exists, because no rule set can cover every situation.

Probably why I'm enjoy an Edge of the empire game at the moment along side my pathfinder game. its a nice change not to have everything spelled out in the rules so the GM can rule as makes sense to him rather than forever looking up rules and errata.

But if someone tore a witches voice box out they could still laugh cackle but you wouldn't hear a sound. See if you make it require sound then what arbitrates how much sound and how needs to hear, can a witch cackle underwater, can they cackle in the zone of a silence spell. As soon as you start making exceptions to general rules you start needing more exceptions. Surely its just easier to say a witch can always cackle.

Alexander Augunas wrote:

Personally, I run Leadership for free at 7th Level. I personally think that your rules are a little too complicated. Here's what I do:

A) Every player gets 1 Cohort at 7th level. The cohort is adjucated based on your Leadership score when you reach 7th Level.

B) The players are allowed to bring (1) additional character with them on adventures; the other cohorts are allowed to perform Downtime activities for the PCs in their absence. A PC can only have one character performing downtime activities for her at once, and a cohort can't perform Downtime activities for a player.

C) A cohort is allowed to make an aid another check to help a PC during all Downtime activities.

D) The PCs receive (1) GM PC at 1st level and may receive additional GM PCs as the story progresses and the players choose to recruit them. A GM PC is treated as a cohort, except they match the player's APL, count against the total experience earned by the party, do not receive the Leadership feat for free, and their class progression is determined by the GM.

E) Characters can receive additional cohorts as the story progresses.

I see what your doing and it certainly a good option for having cohorts. I think what I'm trying to do is more fully incorporate them into the campaign so they at at risk while giving their reward.

e.g. If someone makes a craft monkey I would want that craft monkey to be in many of the groups combat encounters/dungeon crawls and at therefore at risk.

this is also the same reason I would like to bring followers closer to the front line where the PC will need to protect them to get any benefit from them.

I also like the idea that by giving a PC an ever growing pile of followers they'll probably take ownership of them so as a GM you've got an easy string to pull when you want to give PC tough choices.

An equal amount of benefit and burden if possible.

As this is also a campaign concept I'd be very up front with players about how cohorts and followers may play a roll over the course of the campaign so they are making a somewhat informed choice when designing their PC and cohort.

Evil Lincoln wrote:


I'll come back later, but I'll just say I am also doing leadership for free as soon as the leadership score reaches 1 (no 6th level prereq).

hmmmm that's an interesting idea, although persaonally I'd like to leave the door open for higher CR cohorts at higher levels

riatin wrote:

I think calling leadership broken is debatable (its been debated considerably over the years), sure it can lean a power gamer to more power gaming, but it can also be a very effective roleplay tool.

What you've done here with these rules is dramatically increase the bookkeeping at your table. If you're okay with that then it may be a good solution for you. At my table it wouldn't work, I have enough to keep up with already.

Rule 1 seems okay, nothing too complicated there.

Rule 2 seems to not only increase bookkeeping (did npc #3 take a move or standard action, etc.) but would (in my mind) end up with most of the PC's allies on the board just run around and do nothing defeating much of the purpose of having allies.

Rule 3 to me, if I were a character, seems like I'm being penalized for having allies that the GM forced on me. If I didn't want to take leadership would I still have to use these rules? Rule 3.3 seems interesting and makes some sense, my comments are mostly aimed at 3.1 and 3.2.

Rule 4, either give me leadership for free or don't force me as a player to take the feat, a player should have control of their characters development path given a set of options by the DM. Forcing PC's to take feats is looked down upon. If they want something special that may be a special case. The rest of 4 based on the rules given seems fine.

Rule 5 seems okay.

It seems a better idea to just give each PC 1 cohort that works along with the Leadership rules. If they want a larger organization then they need to pick up the feat. This may be more simple than your looking for but in my opinion simplicity works best.

Hope this helps!

Thanks for the advice

Rule 2 I figure could be handled by simply having a flip token for a standard action for each player once flipped it used that way no need to track which character has used it. tokens all flip back at start of new round.

Rule 3: yes, and you'd need to explain to players this is designed to help resolve larger fighter faster which although may be detrimental to individual characters is beneficial to players being able to resolve fights faster. You'll notice the withdraw rules only apply to non Heroes . Also if a hero gets healed back above 25% they can use std actions again. Finally with full HP and these rules Heroic characters still have 75% of max HP before they suffer any effect which is what most games normally run.
I'll grant it certainly something that would require explanation to players to avoid them feeling penalized.

Rule 4; I personally would give it for free , but it would be up to the individual GM.

Again Thanks for the tips

Leadership is a broken feat this we all know, but that doesn't mean its an unusable feat under the right conditions.

In the right campaign giving all players the leadership feat somewhat levels the playing field. And if the GM knows everyone is going to have a cohort going in then he can plan accordingly.

List of House Rules

Rule 1: Cohorts can be gained one of three ways.
1) First is turning a GM created NPC into your ally and recruiting them as a cohort subject to GM approval.
2) Second is the follower promotion rule found under Rule 4 section 4.
3) The Third way is to create them from scratch however each player is only allowed on such scratch created cohort making these more precious. The third way is realistically the only way to gain unusual cohorts such as a dragon (subject to GM approval) .

(If the unusual cohort would require a character level above your current to take you can’t take it yet and since you can only scratch create one cohort you would have to wait and use one of the other methods for your cohort until then. Cohorts released to make room for scratch created cohorts become GM controlled NPC who might not be happy about getting the arse and will take any gear they’ve been using with them. Perhaps even steal some items of gold as they go.

Rule 2: During a round of combat each PLAYER may only perform one standard action across all his cohorts, familiars, companions, summoned creatures. He may however give them all move and swift actions. all characters threaten and flank and may take AoO’s

Rule 3: All characters get full HP, with the following changes.

1) All Characters at Critical health (25% or less) lose the ability to take standard actions

2) All non-heroic characters, cohorts animal companions etc at moderate health (50% or less) lose the ability to take standard actions but can still perform a double move and still threaten and flank.

3) All non-heroic characters,cohorts animal companions etc at critical health (~25% or less) must make a DC 10+(the fights CR) or retreat to a safe distance using either withdrawal or double moves once they are beyond the run range of the nearest enemy or ally they are removed from the fight.(Mounts may use their riders handle animal or ride check if better than their will save)

The GM may wish to use these rules from most of his monsters, advise that mindless, fearless or most BBEG’s should probably be immune to this rule.

(Reasons for Rule 3: starts to thin out a fight at ½ HP , creates some realism of secondary characters withdrawing when injured as they’re not all heroes. having damaged characters retreat instead of fall down make the chance to retreat actually possible. and help end larger fights other than with 100% death on one side)

Rule 4: All characters either get leadership for free or MUST take leadership as their 7th level feat GM choice. As a result all players will have one cohort and followers eventually this is bound to lead to cohort and follower attrition.

1) Followers are gained at the rate of 1 per week per character up to their maximum. The type and race of follower should be appropriate to the region during that week. keep a basic list of Race/NPC class level.

2) If the GM decides an area is suitable to gather followers the PC can spend 1 week uninterrupted gathering followers from the area to gain up to his maximum number of followers. Again followers should be of a race/npc class suitable to the area. The is no roll required for this it would needlessly bog down the process.

3) Followers when gained join the group and travel with the group until they are dropped off at a home base of one exists otherwise they stay with the group as logistical support, they can be killed if the “caravan” of followers is ambushed by GM but usually stay back as PC ride out to meet foes ahead of the column they also set up camp outside caves and dungeons and don’t enter. They can be left in camps or towns should the group want to fast travel/teleport but each PC will lose 1d4 followers from a group of followers left behind per week +1d4 per additional week each week unless they are based in a permanent “home base”. If a cohort is left with the followers the exodus is reduced from weekly to monthly.

4) When a PC’s cohort dies they can be raised if such magic is available or the PC can promote the highest level Follower he has to a new cohort. That new cohort keeps his current character level and NPC classes, but gains 1 heroic class for each new “game session” he is involved in up to the cohort level maximum, the cohort once at maximum cohort level can retrain one NPC level every “game session” until he is a full Cohort with heroic levels and then progresses as written.

(So a level 1 follower who is a warrior would take 4 game sessions to reach char level 5 with 1 warrior/4 fighter levels he’d then need 1 more game session to convert a warrior level to a fighter level for fighter 5 and be maxed for a 7th level PC cohort, this may result in several newly promoted followers dying during combats before one survives long enough to gain enough levels to mix it up with the PC’s, a followers race can’t be changed, and their heroic classes should somewhat match their NPC classes, so cohort gained this way are not as good as the scratch built/unusual cohorts. NPC’s encountered by the group may become optional cohorts if the GM allows it.)

Rule 5: Only cohorts created with the scratch method come with a gold level appropriate amount of gear and magic items, cohorts gained as promoted followers have nothing and must be given better gear out of the parties pool. GM NPC’s that become cohorts have whatever gear the GM gave them prior to that point. items given to cohorts to use can only be taken back through diplo, intimidation, theft or other overt means, they won’t just hand them back without complaint unless its replaced with something of equal or better value. Cohorts that leave the group take everything they currently have or were using with them, some may steal if they are kicked out to make room for a new “better” cohort. Dead cohorts of course have no claim on their stuff ;)

Apologies for wall of text

Thoughts ?

Gobo Horde wrote:
It is called a beastmorph mutagen so while I would say no, RAW seems to allow it.

My feelings are somewhat similar hence why i brought it to the Rules board.

I guess mutagen are described as being infused with a portion of the Alchemists power, which is why he can only make one at a time. So from that perspective I guess it could make sense to carry the additional beastmorph benefits within the mutagen.

so in theory one could take a single level of alchemist, and then try to aquire an alchemist cohort through the leadership feat or similar and use his more potent mutagens to supercharge whatever front-line build the main character has.

Just wondering if the additional abilities granted by a Beastmorphs mutagen are tied to the mutagen or the beastmorph alchemist ?

Specifically if a Beastmorph Mutagen is drunk by a different Alchemist would he benefit from the beast morph additions to the mutagen or only the base mutagen abilities ?

What if the different alchemist was a beastmorph as well but of a lower level ?

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