Pete Apple's page

Waiter! Another dead horse over here please! Make it snappy!

We tried 1-1-1 in our FR3.5 game over the weekend.

Nothing broke, it all worked fine. We'll be using it from now on.

Things went faster, everyone liked that alot.

-Pete

Where's the dead horse when you need him?

James Jacobs wrote:

Would it matter if, for example, in the Rise of the Runelords Player's Guide, we warned the PCs in advance that they'll eventually be heading into high mountain terrain?

I look upon little spoiler scenes like a great trailer to a movie. If I know what I can expect from it, the higher my anticipation.

Ditto. A bit of preview helps get the players excited about the AP.

(Jeff Probst voiceover) "Next Season on Survivor:Varisia!"

KROC!

Currently playing Siouxsie. Yah!

Archade wrote:

Lastly, a synopsis of the kind of challenges they will undertake. Nothing too specific, but so they know whether it's an urban campaign, a campaign with lots of undead, a naval campaign that will venture to the lower planes, or the like.

So to give hints to rangers as to which favored enemies to take (in a very general sense, of course), or something like that?

Absolutely.

If I'm designing my own open ended campaign with my buddies and one is a ranger focused on undead, then I (as the DM) occasionally put some undead in the game so he has some fun stuff to do. That's my job as the DM, to tailor the game to the players skills so they are challenged using their character concepts. Sure an occasional Giant will show up, but if I continually throw Giants at him, he gets frustrated and doesn't have as much fun.

But with an AP, you (Paizo) control the campaign at that level. I really see the AP as somewhere between a self-designed campaign and a convention game with pre-gens. The DM doesn't have as much leeway on the monsters involved, without some major reworking. So the Ranger should be given some clues ahead of time where to focus. It's just the right thing to do to make the game fun for all and easy to run.

A few ideas:

Player's Maps - both regional and local. Don't make the DM have to try to create these out of his maps. Give PC's who "live in town" enough info about "town" to actually seem like a resident.

Include regional skills/feats - this is nice flavor - but also highlight standard feats/skills that would be popular in this particular region. "Because of the caravans it's a given that everyone here knows how to ride a horse."

Continue to improve upon "you meet in a bar". The 2nd player's guide had this, it was the best part. Provide hooks for the varying classes. This includes major temples, troublesome monsters in the area (for rangers, etc.), and schools of magic that might be popular/not.

Give a short history of recent major events (town destroyed, etc.) This provides flavor, but also provides PC hooks. "My family disappeared 3 years ago in the Raid on Zanzibar."

Info on Major families/groups - including a metagame sidebar of "who can my character be related to/work for"? Help the DM avoid the "oops I'm the cousin of the major villian" problem later on.

I would also recommend you put the 1st level pre-gen characters in the players guide. This will allow the folks creating PC's from scratch to see what sort of classes/skills/feats you had in mind for the campaign. It will also give new or time-constricted players the ability to just choose one and go.

I will probably get a few from the library when they come out just to see how they are. Wasn't that impressed with most that I'd read over the years. Reading the Hugo and Nebula nominees every year gets you used to good writing.

Product comment.

I'm not going to buy these, as I have the PDF for Rise of Runelords already.

But I *would* if it included player maps. I could use those both with tabletop and with maptools online. Save a ton of time trying to wonk things in Gimp.

Consider this for the next Map folio.

Finally had a chance to read through 1.1.

The product confuses me a little bit. The majority of the Pathfinder products are aimed at a DM. The Modules and Adventure Paths, etc. Sure there are a few things that Players might buy too, and a new subscription started for players, but overall the majority of the products are DM oriented.

But this new ruleset looks to be focused almost entirely on PHB info. Races, Classes, Skills, Feats, Spells, etc. Combat has a few pages, Running the game has a few pages. I was glad to see the bit on experience, for example.

As a DM, I really haven't felt that classes are all that broken. Building NPC's is a pain. This sort of addresses that but not enough. And even so, building monsters is broken too, and nothing much done here on that. Building encounters is broken at times, especially at higher levels. I don't see anything that helps with save or die and the power issues at higher levels.

This is a common problem that I've seen with some of the 3.5 add on products - they seem to focus almost everything on PHB variations. I'd like to see alot more DMG and MM "fixes" compared to the amount of pages devoted to the PHB.

Now, I don't need you folk to get all "but it has this, and it has that." Yes, I'm sure I missed this or that. Just giving a general impression that hopefully can help Jason et al think about some of the broader issues with 3.5 that they could address.

-Pete

I also like the Tennis Court Oath, as long as we're quoting from history.

I guess it depends who gets to be Louis XVI ? :-)

In Congress (or a college fraternity for that matter)

They're basically the same, actually.

"The chair recognizes Senator Blutarsky!"

Nope, never heard of him. :-)

List in chronological order:

Shards of Honor
Barayar
(these two books are also combined into "Cordelia's Honor")
The Warrior's Apprentice
Short Story: The Mountains of Mourning
(all short stories are contained in "Borders of Infinity")
The Vor Game
Cetaganda
Ethan of Athos
Short Story: Labyrinth
Short Story: The Borders of Infinity
Brothers in Arms
The Borders of Infinity
Mirror Dance
Memory
Komarr
A Civil Campaign
Diplomatic Immunity

I say we just take the Socratic Method, maybe tweak it a bit here and there for the current times, and just keep using that! That’ll show Plato and his crowd! Who’s with me!?

I wanted to apologize for this post, it was obviously in the wrong forum. I had a few different holo-screens open in Internet Time Explorer 77 and ended up copy/pasting to the wrong window! Damn MicroExxon and their software! I almost ended the 100 years war 30 years early once!

-Pete

WikiHistory!

Used this for years but as +2 Con -2 Dex. Not sure why they get two bonuses vs. one penalty.

Well I think it’s just ludicrous and I couldn’t agree more. Professor Plato is just a pain in the arse. And don’t get me started on Xenophon, that mercenary!

*Everyone* knows the Socratic Method is the best! We’ve been using it for years. It’s what we’re used to, it’s what we enjoy. Why go and change it now? I’ve already got all of this papyrus sitting on my bookcase that details at length the Socratic Method. Plus I’ve purchased all the add-on Dialogues as well! That’s a huge investment! I think Plato and his cronies are just money hungry cad’s wanting us to buy *their* new papyrus scrolls with all these new “improvements” on the Socratic Method. Like it needs improving! I say we just take the Socratic Method, maybe tweak it a bit here and there for the current times, and just keep using that! That’ll show Plato and his crowd! Who’s with me!?

Having been a party in the SCO v IBM hoo-haa on IP, I think it would be very helpful to folks if the Paizo clarified the OGL, 3rd party OGL rules, trying to slip in other companies IP as "new" rules, etc. etc.

You need to look out for Paizo, you don't want to give them problems if possible. Jason is doing a bunch of stuff here, last thing he needs is to have to research every rule suggestion for IP.

Looking forward to seeing the big "GSL" cake. :-)

Some familiar names got ahold of the interweb test rules and posted their experiences. Then some WotC folks weigh in on it in the comments with some rules clarifications.

Linkified!

A house rule we came up with for Heal. You make a Heal check and the value (with pluses or minuses for how familiar or alien the creature might be) gives you some amount of diagnosis information.

DC 10: Very General info ("He looks slightly injured.")
DC 15: General HP info ("He looks 25% down")
DC 20: Specific HP info ("I'd say he's below 10 HP")

Amusingly, this came about not to get an advantage in combat against opponents, but because of the party's Cavalier. The Cavalier would always say he was "Fine!" whenever asked. "Don't worry about me, press on!" This would continue until he finally collapsed.

SO the cleric suggested this use for the Heal skill. I thought it was brilliant! He would drop healing potions into the Cavalier's rations and slap him on the back with a CMW's when he wasn't looking.

-Pete

A nice compliment is included.

Linkification

Text follows is from the Link:
Paizo’s 3.75
By The Game on Mar 19, 2008 in Editorial, Music, RPG

Paizo announced yesterday that they will be sticking with their own re-branded version of Dungeons & Dragons 3.5 for their popular (and well made) Pathfinder series. The Pathfinder RPG will serve as the core book, which will update the 3.5 D&D Rules. You can even download the nice-looking Alpha document from Paizo’s site now. After looking through the rules, they incorporate what I consider some “no brainer” updates to 3.5, and nothing that struck me as brilliant game design. It’s also not nearly complete, since they just offer a selection of updated classes and such, still having the expectation that it’s an add on to the PHB.

I personally am not happy about this because I loved the first Pathfinder series, but I’m definitely moving to fourth edition, which means I won’t have a Pathfinder in the new edition. (I am glad to see that Necromancer Games, a Paizo partner, will be publishing an adventure path for 4e. I just hope it’s up to the same standards.)

Looking at it from a business perspective, however, this makes a lot of sense. WotC is behind in offering the big third party publishers the new license and rules to use 4e. Paizo is uniquely positioned with the existing 3.5 market. Judging from the divisive reaction to 4e (and those who just don’t want to pay money to switch rules) there will be a market for 3.5 for at least the near future. I’m not sure they had a choice.

Still, I hope they produce high quality accessories and adventures for 4e, even if they don’t switch for Pathfinder. The truth of the matter for me is that no one else is making products up to their level except Wizards.

Lord Zeb wrote:

My wife just looked at me like I was crazy when I described the situation and Paizo's decision....and how happy I was that they made *this* call. Too funny.

The exact same thing happened to me. She thought I had gotten a raise or something.

My wife said I'm going to need a raise if I keep buying at the rate I am...

"Be Excellent To Each Other"

I am a subscriber. the tag is on my wife's screen name.(I like Paizo, but not enoug to pay for two subscriptions.) As far as reviews, I don't bother to read other peoples review, I wouldn't use their advice anyway. As a Charter Subscriber to Pathfinder (And former to Dungeon & Dragon) I don't post feedback on what I buy on my account because it's usually birthday/ Solstic/ aniversary stuff for my wife, So I don't want to advertise a gift. SHe's on these boards too.

My suggestion wasn't for you to read reviews, but to write them. Paizo looks at those reviews to see what products people like and why, and other buyers read them when choosing products.

If you haven't given her *anything* from your charter subscription so far that's going to be a big birthday present once you do!

Because some people feel that it's all they have left.

Maybe you have a better life than me, but all the things that I find in life to get worked up into a froth over I can't affect one way or another.

So... I'm looking forward to 4th edition, but even so, you seem like nice enough folks and I'm sorry you feel like you do. I want to help.

So I thought I'd throw out some ideas for you to do something about what you're feeling rather then lash out. You know, constructive, positive stuff.

The best and most obvious way you could influence Paizo is to buy more of their products. Become a supersubscriber or whatever it is. Being a business, they should listen more urgently to the people that are their current, best customers.

Another thing you could do is write some reviews. Mr. Blackdragon and Mr. Disenchanter haven't written any reviews at all. If you really love the Paizo products as they are right now, say so. Write positive reviews for the products you own and specifically mention how you like them being 3.5 edition.

Obviously you should be responding to any and all of the survey's that paizo puts out as well as any postings put out by their staff. They also publish their e-mail addresses so you should be providing feedback to them directly.

I'm sure other folks might have some ideas as well.

Just noticed this thread.

I found it very amusing that an "Open Letter To Lisa Stevens" has 60+ replies from... other people. Unless all of you are named Lisa Stevens? :-)

I'm sure she loves message board review time when she gets to work Monday mornings. Jeepers. Such drama.

Meh. I'm not sure I'm completely getting why moving folks around 1 square is such a big deal. May have to test it out.

Also wondering what this guy does if you're playing without a battlemat. I hope he's got some other interesting stuff besides this.

-Pete

An attack roll for a Fireball? That's like making an attack roll for throwing a hand grenade! Trust me, It's not nessessary.

Er, well, in d20 you do make an attack roll for throwing a hand grenade...

pres man wrote:

Koriatsar wrote:

JUST AS RANDOM?!!

It sounds like the DM does everything and the player does nothing.
When a player rolls a save it's FUN. Like those times when you roll that nat 20 for success.

Can this edition possibly get any worse?

Well just to be clear, when you make an attack on the NPCs, you roll the attack. Basically what it means is you don't get to do any rolls when it is not your turn.

That sounds weak.

I agree, the save mechanics seem strange, I'm going to wait and see on that one, although I am looking forward to making attack rolls when my wizard throws a fireball.

It might not be DnD and maybe I'll never run Pathfinder with it, but I say it looks kinda fun!

Hoot!

Hoot! Exactly! I can have 3.5 *and* 4.0! I've got vanilla *and* chocolate! And of course Pathfinder is the hot fudge sauce. Woot!

Keep it up, Pete, you'll get us back to 3.5 eventually. ;)

I draw the line at adding back in grapple rules. Sorry. :-)

I guess my point (in case you missed it) is I'm fully planning on modifying things as appropriate to my way of doing things, just like we do now with 3.5 houserules. These aren't some sort of sandscript tablets we're talking about here. :-)

In fact, the term "3.75" has been bandied about here. If it makes sense I'll poach the good stuff out of 3.5 and the good stuff out of 4.0 and make my own 3.75. It's a game, the idea is to have fun the way you like it. I keep failing to see the gun being held to my head on this.

I'm sure WotC will have plenty of "optional rules" in the books or online. And there will be plenty here and on other sites as well.

-Pete

Correct! Good job! :-)

Some friends over at Flying Lab Software got together this afternoon (March 14th) and had fresh baked Pie in their kitchen. Can you guess why and at what time they had it?

-Pete

PS: They're geeks.

My favorite part of D&D when I first started playing was rolling up ability scores for my character.

Sad times these are. :(

"We roll ability scores in my campaign"

There, fixed that one too. :-)

PS: For 3E I actually prefer point buy. You can control the power level and people don't feel gyped if they roll bad.

-Pete

"We roll hitpoints for my campaign".

There I fixed it for you. :-)

PS: For 3E I actually prefer fixed. You can control the power level and people don't feel gyped if they roll bad.

Excellent post!

1) Too much marketing tears down the previous version. To me this never made sense because you're essentially telling the customer "oh, we misled you about great that last version was". Never sits well with me.

2) Having worked in the business world long enough, I realize that the delays with the GSL are probably due to normal Dilbert reasons, but it absolutely should have been a higher priority! It certainly gives the wrong message to the 3rd parties and the customers.

3) I've heard that George R.R. Martin's Fire and Ice books are going to be made into a series on HBO. I thought that was fabulous news because it will give them time to do it right. A TV show would make a ton of sense - DnD is perfect for cliffhangers! (Sometimes literally!)

-Pete

31) The editions of Dragon and Dungeon magazines that are relevant can be read in the bathroom without the need of a power cord. ... Perhaps that's just me.

Absolutely not! Well, not necessarily the bathroom, but in the front room by the fire in the comfy chair. I miss that. The laptop is just klunky.

But this isn't necessarily a 3.5 thing. I would have been happy to see Paizo publishing 3.5/4.0/4.5/5.0/5.15/5.25/etc. Dragon/Dungeon forever! :-)

Pete Apple wrote:

I saw Cory's post before it was deleted and he was being a troll on purpose to poke buttons. I appreciated your team stepping in and deleting the post.

That can be considered a personal attack

Pete Apple wrote:

And if that means less twits and more constructive, interesting discussions then more power to you.

Now you're calling him a twit. That IS a personal insult.

The door swings both ways. Now Paizo has to step in and delete your post, or they show that they're being one-sided.

KaeYoss,

I understand the point you're trying to make here. I thought that my terms were sufficently negative to convey my feelings, but not sufficiently rude to be offensive. "Troll" and "Twit" are much better then some of the many alternatives. If you, or Cory, (if he's still reading - which he said he wasn't), or any other reader, is offended I certainly do apologize.

I also thought that since this is a thread discussing unpleasant behavior it would be somewhat different from someone jumping into the midst of a otherwise positive thread to start insulting people. In other words, in a thread where you're talking about people being troll's, using the term "troll" is appropriate to the context.

Also, to be clear, I felt I was describing how Cory was acting, not who he is. I don't know him. I'm sure in person, we'd have a delightful time because we both like the same games and the same RPG company. I do hope he comes back and hangs around on the boards. Just, you know, nicer, cause at the end of the day we're all just DnD folk. (Bill & Ted: Be Excellent To Each Other)

But, you are quite correct, two wrongs don't make a right. And so if the wise Paizo folks feel I've stepped over the bounds of propriety, I shall have to live with the consequences. So be it!

-Pete

This is a friend of mine's response to the article in some e-mails going around. This is not my work, but I enjoyed it so much that I got his permission to post it here. I include it as is.

> Subject: Re: Interesting take on D&D
>
> I suppose. If by "interesting", you actually meant "stupid".
>
> No offense intended, but the guy who wrote that article doesn't
> sound like someone who's ever played an actual well-run D&D game.
> First of all, Gygax has had very little to do with the D&D rules since
> the first couple of editions. Wizards of the Coast are preparing to
> release their 4th Edition, and the v3.0 and v3.5 editions have been in
> play for over a decade. If he's a bad game designer, that has no
> implications for the D&D that is played today.
>
> "One of the worst on the market"? Right. That's why D&D sales
> exceed the market share of every other pen-and-paper RPG combined.
> He sounds like the idiots who go around saying that Windows is "the
> worst OS ever". You have to be pretty awful to be the "worse
> ever", and the "worst ever" _never_ achieves market dominance.
> It's arguable that you can be the best-seller without being the _best_
> ever, but you can't do it if you're the worst ever (or even "one of"
> the worst ever).
>
> And it's quite far from the truth that the tabletop gaming industry is
> collapsing in the face of online gaming. It's a healthy, vibrant
> industry, taking what's good about the computer industry and
> incorporating those things into a game that the online gaming industry
> has no real hope of replicating.
>
> I don't know anyone who considers D&D "pathetic". I suppose it's
> possible that’s because every person I know is themselves pathetic.
> But I think it's more likely that Erik Sofge is just a moron.
> Especially since he excoriates D&D for introducing the "experience
> point" system and then idolizes GURPS, a game system that uses that
> same experience point system. If that's not a moronic pair of
> opinions for one person to hold, I don't know what is.
>
> As far as his complaint that the XP system in D&D is like a video
> game, I guess he's never played a D&D game run by a decent GM. In the
> group I play with, we don't even keep track of our own XP. The DM
> tells us when to level, and we do. We are permitted, encouraged even,
> to do all sorts of things outside the pre-defined game rule system and
> are awarded XP according to the DM's own judgment. We don't go around
> chopping things up for the sake of killing them; there's a definite
> story, and characters are expected to act in a manner consistent with
> their role. Often this means killing something sets you back, rather
> than moves you forward.
>
> While I enjoy a good video game, one of the reasons I like D&D is that
> it's _not_ like a video game. You're only limited only by your own
> imagination, rather than the imagination of the person who wrote the
> game.
>
> There's nothing wrong with goal-free, purely imagination-based game
> playing. We call it "playing pretend", and it's great fun. But that
> doesn't mean that there's no room in the world of quality gaming for a
> different system where layered on that role-playing pretending is a
> rule-based system that involves advancement toward some goal, or at
> least some character development.
>
> Of course, one great way to drive traffic to your web site is to write
> the most inane, inflammatory article you can think of, in the shadow
> of the death of the founder of a widely enjoyed game, being obtusely
> critical of said founder. I suppose it's possible that's all Sofge is
> doing here. If so, it's too bad he has no self- respect or shame and
> is willing to prostitute himself in such a disgusting manner.
>
> If not, then he's just an idiot.

Scaly Boobs. Woot!

In a week, this will have all blown over and the 4E threads will be a nicer place to hang out. I don't for one second imagine that everyone will agree or get along, but I certainly expect everyone to resist the lazy temptation to lash out and textually (verbally?) abuse someone with whom they disagree.

It's not the spirit of our boards. If you (the royal you, not any particular you) felt that the spirit of the Paizo boards was a place where attacks and abject, pointless rudeness were the norm and acceptable, then you were wrong. We want this to be a nice place. We want you to want this to be a nice place. I'm sure it'll be a nice place again and Gary and I can back slowly away from the 4e threads.

So let me commend you on this statement and your actions. I started the WOOT thread. I saw Cory's post before it was deleted and he was being a troll on purpose to poke buttons. I appreciated your team stepping in and deleting the post.

I wish more moderators would step in like that more often. You are fully justified in modifying your boards to keep the quality at the level you desire. And if that means less twits and more constructive, interesting discussions then more power to you.

And here's the thing, if Cory wants to create a "I'm mad as hell at WotC and I'm not going to take it anymore" thread - he should! I'm not going to hop on it and go "Woot!"

I read through the article.

First of all, I *love* the artwork. Lots of fun there.

Something that struck me is that the Goblin's artwork out of Pathfinder would fit well with these guys. Imagine some of those Pathfinder Goblin's being pawns in the Fomorian plans?

The like the concept of the Feywild and Feydark. It's good to see "Fey" mean something creeepy again. It's been used well in some recent literature and I'm glad they are following that example. One of my favorite TV shows was always "Tales from the Darkside" and their new take on dark fey and the shadowrealm reminds me of the opening credits...

It's easy to imagine some fun adventures around that with some crazy Fomorian king. The article immediately got me thinking of some interesting campaign ideas. By associating the Goblins with them you have the tie into the character's realm.

I'm really glad to see Cyclops -- they're a classic from mythology that everyone knows but has never been used well.

Dark Dryads sound really creepy, actually. Deep dark woods dragging you down to the depths of the Feydark. <shudder>

All in all good stuff.

1) Halflings like water all of a sudden?
2) Still a battlemat mentality. Would really like a "no squares" option.
3) Opportunity attack slows down the game and still seems to be a major part and parcel. see #2
4) I'm a bit nervous about the "powers" thing. Sounds marvel-super-heroes-ish so going to wait and see. May have to get used to it.
5) Diagonal as 1 square. I understand but again see #2. If you're going to put up with counting squares, do it reasonably accurately.
6) There are two types of elves but not two of any other race and some aren't even around yet? What's with that?
7) Tieflings seem problematic for the religious folk. I'm an atheist so I don't care but want my players to be comfy happy. Notice how fast they changed the PHB cover? It's a reality of the real world.
8) My friends online all have to bicker at each other for weeks waiting for the new edition.
9) Paizo and other cool 3rd parties have to go through edition limbo-hell.
10) Talking Dragon fighters are all going to sound like "Worf" when role-played. That may be my most dreaded fear.

How about more than 10? Some of these are a bit tongue in cheek but are true at heart.

I'll put some on the other post as well.

1) Simplified Skill System with less “throwaway” skills.
2) Something to add to your character at each level besides hit points.
3) Lower levels beefed up, higher levels leveled off, bigger sweet spot.
4) Very nice art so far.
5) "Alignment" finally punted for something more useful.
6) Touch AC turned into Reflex AC so I don't have to do math in my head every freakin time. I’ve got other stuff to do while I DM.
7) Reflex/Will/Fortitude use the same mechanic as AC, easier for new players to grok quickly. Also, again, I’ve got other stuff to do while I DM.
8) Fey are *dangerous* again.
9) Points of Light. Things were feeling too medieval.
10) Halflings that aren’t the size of 3 year olds.
11) Race matters beyond 1st level. I can’t wait to see what sort of racial goodies a 20th level dwarf has.
12) Wizards have a Staff. And it Matters, it’s not just another throwaway magic item.
13) With simplified mechanics I can do more then 2-3 battles a night and have more time for role-playing.
14) XP calculation that doesn’t require a slide rule.
15) XP for social encounters that have real, defined goals.
16) Cool new books to buy and support my local FLGS.
17) -10 hp was always arbitrary and it's good to see it fixed in the core rules rather then having to be a house rule all the time.
18) Monsters are simplified with cool, specific powers, not character feats glommed onto them.
19) Demons and Devils are cleaned up with clear roles.
20) Tactics are explained within the game and by monster roles - good for new DM's.

I know there's more, that's just off the top of my head.

It's an amusing post -- punditry on RPG games! Huh. Obviously meant to generate some hits, which it is doing. Good job there anyway.

To me his points regarding violence are the sames ones I make when discussing what separate tabletop RPG's from Video/MMO's... in the tabletop you can make the bluff/diplomacy check and still get the xp.

-Pete

Is it a Nissan Sentra... apparently you can play D&D in them ;)

I've heard that the new Nissan Rogue is great, unless you get rear-ended by one. Lots of extra damage!

A few suggestions that have been made regarding this layout are that utility spells are given at even levels, and level 14 might include some "Paragon Path" abilities of some sort. Who knows if that is really the case, but it is a theory that does, at least, conform to the evidence provided.

Cheers! :)

That actually makes sense and goes along with the way SW:Saga works with alternating feats/talents at each level.

'Nuff said.

Found this, scanned it in just for fun.

26 year old pic

Anybody got some from the same era? Older?? :-)

-Pete

Yes, of course. I've owned every version of DnD ever produced, so in some ways I feel like I have some sort of "complete the set" going at this point.

Check out what I found and scanned in!

Link 26 year old picture