Perpdepog's page

I would like weapons to be more of an option. Something like being trained in all martial weapons and monk weapons by default.

But I don't want those options to be so good that no one will ever bother with unarmed strikes.

Yeah, or perhaps trained with martial weapons, but needing a feat to take advanced monk weapons, which could be where Monastic Weaponry comes in. I keep hearing folks say the unarmed stance attacks are roughly comparable to advanced weapons, and as of now there isn't any way for monks to actually use their advanced weapons, which makes me sad.

Okay, so now I'm imagining the silliness of a party that consists of an Envoy, a Commander, a Battlelord, and a Bard, all madly handing buffs out to one another.

Free archetypes (if available) into Marshal, Alchemist, Medic, and the other Marshal.

I suspect it would actually work out pretty well.

Action Synergy Team Best Friend Squad Go!

I fail to see the relevance of Dragon Form's addition to the Divine spell list. It's not like deities haven't provided spells already on the list before.

Because it's silly. Why is a deity granting you a spell that's already on your list? Yeah, we've seen it before, and that question comes up each time. This could be evidence that Paizo is correcting that issue.

I was so certain about a free archetype-like tack, too, but honestly stopping to think about 9 full destiny writeups with 2,4,6,8,10,12,14,16,18,20th lvl feats for each seems like a LOT of page space for a book that also includes two whole classes and a whole books worth of other things. Now I'm not sure. Maybe it's prescribed bonuses or like 5 feats worth of destiny

That's what I am currently leaning toward. An FA-style system makes loads of sense, and slots neatly into what PF2E is good at, plug-and-play character designs. My current assumption is you get five feats that will be chunkier than your typical feats, each subbing in for one of five tiers of power.

I hope we still have the ability to make a bespoke artifact as part of our mythic ascension. That was probably my favorite ability line from PF1E's mythic system.

Why would things in Book of the Dead be getting reprinted in future products? They already exist in Book of the Dead. I would expect that future products would reference the content from Book of the Dead - not reprint it.

Agreed. There's also the issue that two of the biggest errors I recall from BoD, the skeleton ancestry having no native way to gain the greater undead benefits, and the Hallowed Necromancer archetype requiring expert in a skill at level 2--something which, IIRC, no caster can achieve--are strongly tied to some pretty niche options which I don't really see being reprinted.

Another fun option you could add would allow the runes from hand wraps to apply to monk weapons. Incentivizing monks to blend weapon strikes and unarmed strikes feels on brand, and given their lower base damage it shouldn't break anything.

As an example, I gave a homebrewed item that essentially does this to the rogue in my Strength of Thousands game, and so far it's all been fine. They like using unarmed attacks, but sometimes wanted to bop people with weapons, particularly the magic staff they carry, so I gave them a Crest of Concentrated Force that functions like Doubling Rings, save it pairs a single weapon and a set of handwraps.

I wouldn't be surprised if we eventually got some form of errata for BoD, there are some genuine errors in the book that could do with clarifying, but I don't think it's at all high on Paizo's list of concerns. Like everyone else has pointed out, most of the issues are simple enough to fix that a rules forum question is sufficient.

Perpdepog wrote:

[Elfteiroh: SNIP to keep only what I'm directly replying to]

The one that has me scratching my head is number 1. Does that mean we'll be seeing celestials without the Holy trait? That'd be neat if so, and really muddle what Holy and Unholy mean if not.

To note, it was already a core assumption of the whole Lost Omen setting. There have been a couple of non-evil fiends, and some celestials NPCs in APs that were evil without losing the "celestial" trait. So here it's more of a reiteration IMHO.

There's even a whole city in the maelstrom for planar people that had the "wrong" alignment, Basrakal.

Oh I am aware of Basrakal; it's probably my favorite extra-planar settlement in the entire setting. Those are all individualized exceptions, though, singular celestials or fiends who break away from the generally accepted way they behave and do their own thing.

I could see a Runelord destiny showing up in a Lost Omens product. They had something similar in a PF1E mythic book as I recall.

I believe they're for Pathfinder 1st Ed. The clue is in the years some of the books have beside them; some books are listed as being released in 2012 or 2018, and PF2E didn't come out until 2019.

It could also just be a mix, "this one makes you one of the Empyreal Lords, that one makes you an Archmage"

What I'm hoping for, personally. Being an Empyreal/Demon Lord, Archdevil, or Apocalypse Rider hopeful has enough wiggle room for the character to describe their personal wants for me. Like you could try becoming an Empyreal Lord of just about anything you could think of.

PossibleCabbage wrote:

Specifically I really didn't like the Owlcat Mythic Destinies. When I played their adaptation, the only ones I felt fit my character were "Trickster" (because it's suitably generic- you could be Loki, or Sun Wukong, or Coyote) and Legend (because it's maximally generic.)

I really don't like the whole notion of "you become mythic which makes your body weird". Like Old Mage Jatembe isn't weird!

Why can't OMJ be an Eternal Legend focused on magic? Like. Just because we used to have an incredibly generic Archmage doesn't mean we need the same thing now to represent the character.

That's the point though, that there exist options, like Eternal Legend if that turns out to be one such, that give more of a generic feel so someone can fill in the cracks themself. It's easier to make a generic option more personalized than it is to do the opposite for some people.

A school devoted to using calculations and arcane formulae to try and divine the future. That or a school dedicated to spying and seeing stuff from far away without being noticed.

I'm a fan of a middle ground, with some options tied to places--big ones, like whole planes or real movers and shakers in said planes--and some being more generic, "best warrior," "most mage," "element person"--which I guess could also be tied to a place--and so on. I'd rather the starting point for flavor be broad enough that it's easily moldable and adaptable, because it's a lot easier for me to narrow down than broaden out. I'd have trouble if the mythic destiny was tied to one specific person, or a very specific organization if I wanted to make a character who wasn't affiliated with them.
I'd have an easier time using a generic Master of Magic-type mythic destiny to build a character who trained under, and one day is going to replace, Baba Yaga as the most powerful witch than make a more generic, "I will become the most powerful caster ever for X reason" character employing a mythic destiny specifically themed around Baba Yaga, for example.

This might be cheating a smidge, because it's big enough to have multiple dungeon maps all interconnected, but my pick has to be Fallowdeep from Midwives to Death. It layers different kinds of creatures really well, particularly considering the strong undead theming in all of Tyrant's Grasp, and the feel of the place is great, moving down through the additions built by previous occupying forces.
The dungeon also has one of my favorite things in any dungeon--factions. My party had a great time working with, and against, the various factions of baddies down there, trying to find ways to pit them against each other while also not giving any of them a definite upper hand.

I didn't know the Apocalypse Horses had names. That's cool.

I think you're pretty on the money viz making those constructs not immune to Spirit. I'd also include the levaloch in that list, myself. It is a fiend, and therefore is made predominantly out of spirit essence from the shade/s who make it up.

Another possibility for Apocalypse Rider I just thought of, perhaps, rather than gaining your power from Szuriel, you are gaining it from the Bound Prince. Whatever happened to him was far from pleasant, and it's the Apocalypse Riders who are to blame. If he has a presence in these upcoming stories, maybe he feels the time is right to introduce some new riders, ones who are a bit more amenable to working together, or with/for him, or at minimum who have more metaphysical strings he can pull on to keep them in line.

Once per hour doesn't sound too out there, given the feat is eight levels higher than when you can acquire the spell by normal means. It'll also be dependent on your spell DC to be effective, which limits the number of builds who can use it. There's also the limitation of just how many encounters per day you're having. If you're having two or three then it's really not much better than just expending your 3rd-rank slots on Fear in any case; a reasonable thing to do given that, by level 13, your 3rd-rank spells have lost a lot of their punch.

I see it being very helpful for summoners, though, which is neat, and also having some utility for prepared casters, which is also neat.

Drugs and addiction are both tricky subjects to navigate well. I'm glad they're there, but also unsurprised Paizo's not done much with them in their own products.

My group tends to treat them as another class of item they sometimes have to juggle. Granted, I don't believe anyone in my groups has experience with very hard drugs, and their characters don't use anything more potent than Golarion's versions of super-coffee and marijuana, so they've become more of a background element that sometimes comes up if I need them to roll a check to see if they're feeling fatigued that day from cramming and they want to try and circumvent the fatigue. We are playing Strength of Thousands, for reference.

I'd like to see the mesmerist make the jump in some form, working a bit more like a beefier witch/bard, using debuff cantrips and so on. I'm real curious to see how the commander's resources are going to work, as well, because that sounds like a great place to put your mesmerist tricks.

Add my voice hoping that these conflicts lead to a Hellknights book. At minimum I'm hoping that we see a reprinting of the Hellknight archetypes in Battlecry, or whatever the book ends up being called.

I could see myself updating Grason, my draconic summoner who was literally pumped full of dragon's blood in an effort to make them live longer, and be more useful to their draconic master.

I think a Pine, root, or some other woody leshy would be really cool as a guardian. Diversify the image of the leshy by making it tough instead of (or in addition to) being cute, and it just fits thematically

Make them a root leshy and create the armortato.

Isn't the Iconic Inventor an Orc?

Droven is a dromaar.

I could see some kind of Elemental Lord/Nexus destiny, but we may be seeing the last of elemental stuff for a while because of how soon RoE released.

Perpdepog wrote:

I'm hoping one of the destinies is the "you are the best at magic" destiny. We've got enough powerful casters for it to emulate and it is a pretty entrenched archetype in myth.

I don't think it'd have to go as far as a best-of for each class, but the Best Mage, Best Warrior, and Best Trickster are pretty archetypal.

I think if they wanted to have something like that they would have kept the OG mythic paths from PF1e. I think the new mythic destinies have to be built around a theme because having 9 of them is arbritary, so I'd assume that all of them with have options for mages, warriors, and tricksters, though likely some would be more suited for others (the devil or hell inspired one is likely going to have more for mages and tricksters, the angel or heaven inspired one for mages and warriors, etc).

I'm sure they will. My point was more that someone being superlative at fighting, knowing stuff, or tricking people are all very mythical archetypes IRL. It's possible they could all be rolled into one destiny, I just think they'll be an option.

As far as I can see, we know almost nothing about the Guardian other than "heavy armor defender martial, has a taunt". So it could be all sorts of things.

That said, it's likely that the Guardian has ways of convincing the enemy to cluster around them... which can synergize well with a class that's all about the area attacks. It's just going to mean looking for ways to make the whole thing a bit more party-friendly. Possibly we'll get an updated version of Backfire Mantle that isn't spell-specific?

I'm also curious about the Envoy/Commander combo. Will there be a way to leverage party-buffers buffing each other's buffs?

There's a fun combo to fantasize about. The guardian pulls all the enemies around them, somehow, and hopefully has some kind of feat to exclude themselves from their allies' attacks, so they aren't harmed when the soldier lights them all up.

"Please, please, gather round! My friend has something to show you!"

I'd love to see the iconic commander be an orc. Orcs also have a pretty militant culture, and it would dispel some of the cultural stereotypes if two of the more notable orc pregens we have are a tactically-minded orcish commander and that orcish investigator from The Slithering.

From a preview I heard that TXWG includes a set of core assumptions--a sort of recalibration for those whose default instincts are more based in Western cultures and fantasy tropes.

1. Celestials Are Not Always Good
2. Appearances Are Deceiving
3. Dragons Are Not Monsters
4. Spirits Are Not Abstract
5. The Dead Are Never Truly Gone

I was wondering what people thought about these? Suffice to say, reading into possible implications of these has my brain a little bit on fire right now. While I gather that the meta explanation for this list is "This is the Fantasy Asia continent, it would be weird if we didn't have Asian Fantasy tropes" but casting rationality aside, the in-world explanations, if there even are any, could offer ripe ground for baseless speculation.

I don't have the full context of what each bullet is supposed to mean (perhaps someone blessed in the pdf department will deign to share) but so far I have gathered...
- "Celestial" may mean a creature from heaven, but they're not flawless beings, and even celestials can be people, too.
- So many creatures on this continent shapeshift.
- You don't go around slaying treasure-hoarding dragons on this continent. Those dragons are sages and advisors.
- Spirits are commonplace and tend to have specific and tangible forms in Tian Xia.
- This is only an educated guess, but I suspect #5 is about the comparative prevalence of reincarnation and Sangpotshi.

Number 5 is also likely a reference to systems of ancestral veneration, so it probably works on a symbolic as well as literal sense. Then again, with magic existing, it could also very well be literal. We've already seen a couple ancestors-turned-tutelary-spirits in Book of the Dead with the Iruxi Ossature and potentially Iroran Mummy. Seeing more undead along those lines would be really cool.

The one that has me scratching my head is number 1. Does that mean we'll be seeing celestials without the Holy trait? That'd be neat if so, and really muddle what Holy and Unholy mean if not.

I'm thinking we'll be seeing more spirit damage like we see in the champion errata, though I'm unsure if evil champions will be able to inflict it on more people. I really hope so. It'd help evil champions carve out more of a space as the smashy champions, especially the Antipaladin, who is meant to be the smashiest.

We need a fungus ancestry. Not 'plant with a fungus heritage' but an actual dedicated ancestry of fungi.

I'd look to SF2E for that, if it doesn't show up in PF. We had a couple fungal friends as species in the first edition, so hopefully they'll make the jump.

I'm hoping one of the destinies is the "you are the best at magic" destiny. We've got enough powerful casters for it to emulate and it is a pretty entrenched archetype in myth.

I don't think it'd have to go as far as a best-of for each class, but the Best Mage, Best Warrior, and Best Trickster are pretty archetypal.

I'm guessing it'll have medium armor proficiency based on nothing but vibes.

Perpdepog wrote:

Calliope5431 wrote:

keftiu wrote:

We now know that this is the shape Mythic is taking in War of Immortals, and that two of them are Apocalypse Rider and Eternal Legend. That leaves us with seven slots to fill and a lot of time to do it... any brave guesses?

Wow. It's literally D&D 4e epic destinies, isn't it?

I'll of course pray and lobby for "demon lord" and "archdevil."

The real question is implementation. Since I don't think we know what that actually is? Some sort of archetype-style thing?

Likewise, what mythic monsters actually are...there used to be level 5 mythic owlbears, after all. Not exactly world-breaking.

And we've seen other previously mythic monsters get folded into the monster pool before. For that matter we've got a Demon Lord at Home-style big bad in the Core still and he's not got any specific mythic language. It's totally possible that mythic creatures as we knew them are gone.

Definitely agree. Just curious if "level 26+ monster" is actually a thing that will ever exist, or if it's just ultimately going to be code for "no, it doesn't actually have stats, but it's also not a full deity so you could come up with something crazy as the GM if you wanted to, too."

Given that she's on the cover of War of the Immortals I'd really love to see the Szuriel stats, after all!

I desperatly hope that's true. The 26 and up statblocks were some of my favorite parts of Bestiary 6.

It does sound like the Guardian is intended to be a defensive tank while the Soldier is an offensive one. It'll be cool to make squads out of these classes once they're all out.

keftiu wrote:

We now know that this is the shape Mythic is taking in War of Immortals, and that two of them are Apocalypse Rider and Eternal Legend. That leaves us with seven slots to fill and a lot of time to do it... any brave guesses?

Wow. It's literally D&D 4e epic destinies, isn't it?

I'll of course pray and lobby for "demon lord" and "archdevil."

The real question is implementation. Since I don't think we know what that actually is? Some sort of archetype-style thing?

Likewise, what mythic monsters actually are...there used to be level 5 mythic owlbears, after all. Not exactly world-breaking.

And we've seen other previously mythic monsters get folded into the monster pool before. For that matter we've got a Demon Lord at Home-style big bad in the Core still and he's not got any specific mythic language. It's totally possible that mythic creatures as we knew them are gone.

What do the no-longer-golems look like in the Remaster? Were there any alterations aside from their magic immunity being swapped out for a resistance to spell damage?

androyd09 wrote:

I assume these are all guesses then?

Also, was blooodrager mentioned somewhere? The blog post does not mention barb or the archetype, and I didn't catch it on the stream.

Yea I'm just spit balling.

Bloodrager class archetype is called out in the WoI product description along with avenger rogue. Battle harbinger cleric class archetype is called out in the divine mysteries product description. I think the palantine Investigator was called out in the stream? I can't remember that one

It was, yarp. My hope is it's less overtly divine, and more to do with the spirit essence, so you can get some divine or occult flavor with your investigator. I'm hoping for a way to gain some spell slots, do a bit of spirit damage like you said, and deal with spirits, maybe finding ghostly traces and so on. Granted some of that could come through feats.

The nine being tied to the now defunct alignments holds water to me. Given that fact I'm all but positive one of them will be trickster or fey-based. Tricksters are one of the most popular mythic archetypes in IRL myth, was popular--at least among people I spoke to--in the Owlcat game, and fulfills the CN requirement perfectly. Hedging my bets with fey because they are also trickstery, and they are a built-in way to help flavor your mythic character more.

I'm also all but certain we'll be seeing a demonic or diabolic path as well. If daemons are getting a spot I can't see demons and/or devils not getting similar treatment; they're both much more prominent than daemons.
And, assuming that is true, then I'd also bet on us seeing some kind of celestial-themed path, as well. I don't think we'd be seeing one for each kind of celestial; celestials tend to be grouped together in a lot of Paizo systems, while fiends get sub-divided and spread out.

I'm guessing it's a free archetype-like tack that gives 10 extra feats that you spend exclusively in you're mythic destiny

That would be the most intuitive and straightforward way to do it, for sure. That's where I'm leaning too, though I keep envisioning a progression of fewer feats, say five, that are each chunkier and grant more benefits for the tier you have. They might even grant bonuses to your core numbers, allowing you to punch above your weight class level-wise.

Edit: Oh, oopse. Quoted you before you were totally finished, sorry.

Perpdepog wrote:

Squark wrote:

Huh. The page also mentions an 8th ancestry, which sounds like it's an existing ancestry renamed because it was another D&Dism.

If you're talking about kholos, we already knew that one; gnolls are being renamed. Same goes for the tripkee, formerly gripplis.

Yes, but I wasn't aware they'd announced that Tripkee were going to be in Player Core 2, hence my evasiveness.

Ah, I gotcha. In fairness, I don't think the announcement was terribly widespread. I definitely recall more discussion around kholos than tripkee.

OceanshieldwolPF 2.5 wrote:

Horsewoman then? I like her style. And nice sword. Thanks for the image WAR! (Wayne Reynolds...)

She's been around since 2008 or so.

Though technically they're called the "Riders of the Apocalypse" now.

I admit I'm looking forward to mythic. Mostly because the Wrath game made it very flavorful and cool, and because I think PF 2e, unlike 3.x and PF 1e, is much less prone to snapping in half in general. So I think it won't fall apart as readily as 1e mythic did. Not a high bar, but hey - I want rules for playing a demon.

If you don't mind 3P material, Roll for Combat has a playable demon ancestry in one of their books, Classic Creatures, which is also going to get an archetype once the fully compiled release is, uh, released.

I'm really, really curious to see what form these mythic rules are going to take. Are they going to be a smattering of various feats that give you crazy actions, will they be themed by archetype--that's the narrative use of the term archetype--like they were in the WotR game?
I'm assuming they will, at minimum, not be so tied to each of the core six stats as they were previously, mostly because of the issues later on when classes, like the kineticist, didn't fit neatly into any of those spaces.

Note that Gorum's death is something that happens on-screen and is witnessed by PCs... but I doubt we'll get any sorts of mechanics for any of it.

Much like Cain's jokey sheet in OWoD, true dragons in L5R, and Cthulhu's "1d6 Investigators per turn" bits in CoC, I would say that deities are going to remain stat-free, their victories and defeats matters of narrative.

We know the Orc pantheon is going to get whomped on, and we know a couple of other inbound deific demises, but none of it sounds like dice are going to be rolled to see how it goes.

I could see Gorum's death being statted as a series of ridiculously high-level hazards, similarly to how Mogaru was used previously. I also wouldn't be surprised if the party had to fight someone while that was going on, trying to do combat while shards of divine iron and rains of deific blood smash the battlefield around them.

I'm curious what this class will do that the Marshall archetype doesn't, but I haven't played the battle lord or whatever Michael Sayre called his 3rd party class. But Path of War rocked so I'm optimistic.

We did get this hint from Michael Sayre in the main Battlecry thread.

Just for you, because you're cool and I like you, I'll drop one little commander hint ahead of the playtest that will have you theorizing until release day:

If you're a casual fan of TTRPGs, the commander sounds a lot like a warlord (or a marshal, or kind of even some bards, etc.)

The sentence I wanted to use that we decided was a little too technical for a broad audience announcement (and probably legitimately not spicy enough), is that one could fairly describe the commander as a "prepared martial" kind of similar to the way one might talk about a "prepared caster"...

So I think it'll be less martial, with their aura of granting buffs, and more like a book of tactics you can pull from as the situation demands. I'm pretty optimistic about that take, because making your tactical buffs more limited means they've got room to be a bit more powerful, making the Commander feel more impactful earlier on.

Sadly I don't think they're going to have the soldierly companion/troop ally that I was hoping for, but that's alright. Someday, maybe.

Huh. The page also mentions an 8th ancestry, which sounds like it's an existing ancestry renamed because it was another D&Dism.

If you're talking about kholos, we already knew that one; gnolls are being renamed. Same goes for the tripkee, formerly gripplis.

Vilderavns. They're tough, clever, turn into giant burbs, and don't apologize for nothin' or take crap from nobody. I think they also feed off the concepts of misery and betrayal, which feels very fey to me.

Also, they wear cool armor and have cool swords.

Not sure if they have explained how Azrani got better, but she's replacing Gorum as a core god.

She got sploded by a magical soul-nuke while fighting TB.

By the way: I have no idea who the awesome pale young lady with the rather large sword riding the bloody dagger-headed uniquorn is on the cover of War of Immortals, nor who the demure, rather well-dressed-if-dowdy lass is on the cover of Divine Mysteries. I think she's got the lil Nosoi Yivali on her finger? Could be wrong. Anyone help a chap out?

No idea who the character from Divine Mysteries is from that description, but the person on the cover of War of Immortals is Szuriel, Rider of War, one of the Apocalypse Riders, formerly Horsemen, big bosses of daemonkind.