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Peet's page

Pathfinder Society Member. 658 posts. No reviews. 1 list. No wishlists. 5 Pathfinder Society characters. 1 alias.


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Good point about the miss chance, though that only affects the one character. Alchemist is also a pretty good class for this encounter. However, splash damage is area effect and will automatically do only 50% damage (25% on a save), though a direct hit will still do normal damage (assuming the miss chance didn't get you). The normal 1 point of splash damage from a non-alchemist will do nothing to a blinking character.

It also looks like you also have inflated your damage calculations. It looks like the character has an INT of 22, right? This is why you have listed holy water as doing 2d4+6 damage?

If so your regular bombs will do 1d6+7, not 1d6+10. Point Blank shot adds 1 damage and Firebug adds nothing to damage (it only adds +1 to attack rolls). Minimum splash damage will be 8, but this is reduced by 50% by the blink spell.

Likewise, if your holy water does 2d4+6 damage on a hit then the splash damage will be 7. The rule about splash damage equaling the minimum hit damage only applies to alchemist bombs, not other thrown splash weapons. Holy water normally does 1 splash damage but since you are an alchemist it will be 1 + 6, or 7 points. However, blinking reduces this by 50%, to 3, and a successful save reduces it to 1.

Yes, the idea of him preparing a charge in the corner of the room is exactly what I mean. He certainly is not going to stand in a spot where he can be hit but cannot retaliate. Someone who wants to throw a bomb/acid flask etc. Will have to at the very least stand in the squares just outside the room in order to get him (and from there M will have cover against this attack). As long as they are in the squares just outside the doorway M can attack them, and his bite does a lot of damage.

The idea that Malfeshnekor will stand there and do nothing is pretty silly. That basically turns it into a CR0 encounter.


If you have an "Atlantis" in your campaign world you should remember that Thassilon was basically an evil offshoot of that culture. If your version of Atlantis turned to evil then this is fine but if they weren't then you should make Thassilon some kind of colony that went astray (though the event that destroyed Azlant also destroyed Thassilon at the same time).

The game is set in two regions; lower Varisia is fertile and fairly civilized, but is still a "frontier" compared to more major nations. The Storval Plateau is arid and inhabited by the barbaric Shoanti along with lots of monsters such as giants and orcs. There are a lot of Thassilonian ruins here and there all over the region.

It will take a lot of knowledge to rebuild the tower in such a way to defend the town. Possibly some evil magic too (look at how the dam at skull's crossing works to see what I mean). Thassilonian ruins are enchanted in ways that people don't understand any more. Also, nobody (except maybe the PCs) believes Quink when he says the Old Light was actually a weapon.

If you decide to make Brodert Quink turn evil then you probably need to create another Thassilonian "expert" for the party to consult.

I think instead I would have "Pillbug" Podiker show an interest and it turns out he has a contact somewhere that wants to pay a lot for it. Possibly this could be Xanesha or Lucretia. Of course, after meeting him they plan on cutting a rune into his chest and killing him rather than paying.

You could work in that though that it turns out it is the Denizens of Leng who want the orb, because its power can boost the Leng Device. Karzoug, who doesn't know what the Orb is (or the Leng Device for that matter), has agreed to get it for them as a part of the deal to secure their help. However, the Orb could also be key in destroying the Leng Device and keeping Mhar off Golarion.

Blink should have protected him from half of the splash weapons. He has 85 HP, and with alchemist's fire doing 1d6 and holy water 2d4, it would take a long time (and a lot of vials) to kill him this way. If you assume two acid flasks and one holy water flask per round then you average 6 HP of damage per round, or about 15 rounds of combat.

If M was getting ranged to death and couldn't retaliate, I would have had him change shape into a wolf or a goblin (both medium) which would allow him to get out of line-of-sight of the doorway. The party would have to move right to the doorway to hit him and this would give him the chance to attack again.

M is not really meant to win here but he can do a lot of damage if he has the opportunity to full-attack.

One thing you could do would be to give the goblin a contact in Sandpoint who already knows him. Someone who would be able to see past the green skin to see the person underneath. Perhaps Father Zantus (which particularly works if the goblin character converted to the faith of Desna). That way he already has someone to "vouch" for him.

Add a hat of disguise to the party treasure pretty early. One of the Thistletop Goblins could have been using it to scout around Sandpoint (I would use Chuffy from the free "We Be Goblins" module).

I still prefer the idea of making him a kobold instead. Kobolds may not get as much DEX but they get natural armor to make up for it.


One thing though is that the ghouls are not killing at random. They are organized and specifically looking for greedy people. Attacks on random farms probably wouldn't do this, though it could be useful as a distraction. The Hambley farm was targeted specifically.

The Pauper's Graves is close enough to the lost coast road that ghouls operating from there could strike at caravans coming down the Lost Coast Road. There would definitely be greedy souls amongst such a group.

Maybe a ferryman who is known to overcharge for his services could get attacked on the Turandarok River.

Suichimo wrote:
The price of the item is 25,000. 25,000 minus 10,650 equals 14,350. Therefore, the price for Fly 1/day, +5 Max Dex, and -15% ASF is 14,350.

You are using the d20pfsrd price here, which according to the sidebar has been "adjusted" according to the thoughts of the people on the website. However their calculations do not include the base cost of the armor (you can tell this by looking at the crafting cost which is exactly half of the retail price - if it included the base armor it would be more). For this reason I believe that their calculations are wrong.

I would recommend looking at the entry under the Archives of Nethys, which has a direct copy of the original printed material. There the price is 28,650 gp. Looking at the crafting cost shows that it includes 1,650 for the full plate, which is correct.


Crozekiel wrote:
+1 Peet. I think you summed up my thoughts perfectly... (although, doesn't mithral drop ACP by 3, not 2, so you actually run into 0 ACP with the full plate version as well?)

The reason is that the -3 ACP benefit of Mithral armor includes the -1 benefit from having a suit of masterwork armor.

All magic armor starts as masterwork armor. So Celestial armor already includes this -1, and you cannot get that benefit twice.


Ask yourself: how does adding Iozif Kaijitsu advance the story?

If he is to be found in Magnimar, will he be an ally against the party's enemies? Will he be working with their enemies? Will he be an unrelated side enemy? Or strictly a red herring? Will he be a neutral party that may become a useful contact later?

So far your descriptions make it seem like this will be a side quest with no actual contribution to the overall plot. That's fine, but if so then you probably shouldn't make too big a deal about it, or you threaten to derail the actual story.

By the time that the party gets to Magnimar the Nualia & Kaijitsu storylines are over unless any of the people involved escaped.

These are decent ideas.

Askar: where do I find information on this "Kanker" character? Is this from a different module?

The idea that they get info from Zerren works because there can be a pause before Maester Grump shows up with news about Hambley farm.

I like the ghoul horse idea. Would a ghoul horse's hooves cause paralysis? Maybe ghoul dogs would work too.

I don't think I would have ghouls attack Sandpoint directly unless the party fails to figure out what the Misgivings is or refuses to go there. Then I would have a few attacks culminating with a ghoul assault on Scarnetti Manor. Though the party would rescue Titus, after finding a note addressed to a party member Titus would probably accuse them of orchestrating the whole thing. :)

With the players that I have, if a cleric showed up to deal with the problem, the party would probably try to help him, so rather than deal with figuring that out I think I would skip that one. It would have to happen when the players weren't around, and they would hear about it afterward.


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OK, I'm going to chime in here with a few things. I am mostly in the camp of "No, this shouldn't work" but I agree that mechanically a GM could allow it and follow certain rules to do so.

For the record there are two On-Line listings for Celestial Full Plate:

Archives of Nethys Version
D20PFSRD Version

The Archives of Nethys version is a straight reprint of the original 3.5 material in the original module it appeared in. The D20pfsrd version has been "corrected" but frankly since the d20pfsrd entry doesn't even factor in the cost of the original armor I am going to use the AoN version as correct.

Aelryinth wrote:
MM, The Celestial enchantment modifies existing already crafted Mithral Plate.

First of all, I want to clarify that Clestial Plate is not already Mithral armor. We can tell this because of the relationship between crafting cost and retail price.

Magical Armor and Weapons operate under the principle that you must start with a piece of masterwork equipment (for which you must pay full price) and then apply enchantments to it. When crafting the item the cost for the enchantments is halved but the price for the base piece of gear is the same. If armor is mithral then the cost of mithral is a part of the base price, not the enchantment.

Masterwork Full Plate costs 1,650 gp.
Mithral Full Plate costs 10,500 gp.

With the original price of 28,650 gp, if the armor was made with steel armor the cost of the enchantment would be 27,000 (i.e. 28,650 - 1,650). This price would be halved for crafting, so the cost to craft the item would be 13,500 plus the base price of 1,650, for a total of 15,150 gp.

Were the item already mithral, the enchanting cost would be 28,650 - 10,500 = 18,150 gp. So the crafting cost to enchant Mithral Plate with this would be 9,075, and adding the base cost of 10,500 the total cost to craft the item would be 19,575 gp.

Looking in the AoN entry we see that the crafting cost is 15,150 gp, so the first formula is correct; Celestial Plate is crafted from ordinary steel masterwork plate.

As such it ought to be possible to craft celestial armor from another material, unless:
* The "celestial" enchantment only works on armor of a specific material, OR
* The "celestial" enchantment transmutes the armor into some kind of new material, nullifying any previous material properties.

At no point does the item entry actually explain how the enchantment works, so a GM who wished to deny the benefits of mithral celestial armor to a player could invoke one of these justifications. The second one seems logical since celestial armor is described as "bright silver" which certainly implies that the material has been transmuted in the enchantment process.

However, this by no means prevents a GM from allowing this armor to be made.

So what benefits would this grant? Let's look at the actual bonuses provided.

Regular Full Plate: Max Dex +1, ACP -6, Arcane Failure 35%.
Masterwork Full Plate: Max Dex +1, ACP -5, Arcane Failure 35%.
Mithral Full Plate: Max Dex +3, ACP -3, Arcane Failure 25%.
Celestial Full Plate: Max Dex +6, ACP -3, Arcane Failure 20%.

Since we use masterwork armor as a base for both mithral and magic armor, we see that:

Mithral Improves: Max Dex by 2, ACP by 2, Arcane Failure by 10%
Celestial Improves: Max Dex by 5, ACP by 2, Arcane Failure by 15%

So a Mithral Celestial Full Plate (assuming properties stack) would be:
Max Dex +8, ACP -1, Arcane Failure 10%.

As to whether the armor counts as light or medium, this is up to the GM as we are not shown how the celestial enchantment actually works. It could be read as turning the armor into medium, no matter what other properties there are (which is strictly RAW); or the GM could interpret it as making the armor one step lighter.

Game Balance:

From a balance perspective, this does present a problem, because the max dex penalty is higher than that of a mithral chain shirt, so a rogue could wear this, be able to move at full speed, and would suffer a -1 to his attacks due to not being proficient with medium armor. That -1 to attacks is balanced out by a net +5 in base armor bonus and an increase in Max Dex by +2, allowing for a net +7 to AC over what would normally be possible for a rogue.

Likewise a Wizard would also likely take such a piece of equipment too. It is cheaper than bracers of armor +8 and does a lot more. You could eat the 10% arcane failure, or you could take the arcane armor training feat since this will count as light armor.

There is a similar problem if we allow mithral to apply to regular Celestial Armor. In such a case the Max Dex goes to 10, the ACP to 0, and the arcane failure chance to 5%. Once again this looks like a downright amazing item for rogue-like characters and arcane full casters, and nearly eliminates any penalty to wearing such an item.

These balance issues would make me rule against such a combo in my games.

As a GM I don't want my players to look for loopholes to figure out how they can get around not having another classes' class features (like using armor). I want them to figure out ways that they can operate so they don't need them.

YMMV. But there are very strong reasons why this should not be allowed in most games.


Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
I think you're a bit confused as to what a Divine Focus is and what its relationship is with somatic components. The two aren't mutually exclusive; that is, if you have one, you don't need the other, which you seem to think is the case.

No, let me make myself clear.

I have read elsewhere that in the process of casting a spell, if the spell requires a focus or a material component, then that component may be held in the hand that performs the somatic component. So in the case of a spell that requires a holy symbol, you do not need to hold the symbol in one hand and make gestures with the other. Instead, you wave the symbol around and that comprises the somatic component.

It's not that you need one or the other; it's that you can do one WITH the other. You can make gestures WITH the focus instead of your hand, which is not a free hand as it is holding something.

To require otherwise would mean that casting a spell without a focus or materials requires only one hand, whereas casting a spell with material components or foci effectively requires two. That would turn Eschew Materials from a mediocre feat to an awesome one. It would also mean iconic wizards would have to drop their staff on the ground any time they cast a spell with a material component. It's pretty clear that the material component/foci rules are not meant to require this much bookkeeping, nor is casting a spell ever supposed to require more than one hand.

So if an object counts as a divine focus, the hand holding it CAN normally also be used to perform the gestures for the spell, if such is required.

Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
All I'm saying is that the reliquary shield only serves as a Holy Symbol for the purposes of Channeling and the Divine Focus required for casting a spell; it still restricts your ability to use that hand for other purposes, such as fulfilling somatic components.

Is there a source for this, or is this just your opinion? Does it say anywhere that the object only counts as a divine focus in some respects and not others?

Wearing an ordinary holy symbol on a string around your neck also fulfills the requirement for the purpose of channeling and spellcasting, and only costs 1gp. Preparing a focus for a spell is a free action. So frankly making a shield into a divine focus doesn't seem to achieve any mechanical benefit whatsoever under your interpretation. In my mind, adding this property to the item should really do something.

There is a magic item from INNER SEA GODS called the Inheritor's Gauntlet. It allows the user (if he is a follower of Iomedae) to use the longsword held in that hand as a holy symbol. The intent here is pretty clear that this is meant to allow a Paladin of Iomedae (or a cleric for that matter) to cast spells with the hand though still holding the longsword.

Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
In other words, a Heavy Shield won't work for what you're trying to do; get a Light Shield and it solves your problems.

If I cant use a heavy shield that counts as a divine focus to gesture, I don't see why I could use a light shield that counts as a divine focus to gesture.

Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
If (the spell) doesn't require a Divine Focus, adding it to casting that spell won't change anything about the spell, assuming that adding those subjects to a spell is possible, which many would say is not, and even if it is, it does nothing.

This is normally what I would figure. However, if you can use another item like a weapon or a shield as a holy symbol, then it actually becomes easier to cast a spell that requires a divine focus than one that doesn't, because if I can use my longsword as a focus (as with the Inheritor's gauntlet) then I don't have to sheathe it to cast a spell that requires a divine focus, but I would to cast a spell that doesn't. That just seems weird.

Darksol the Painbringer wrote:


As for the whole "gold cost" for a Divine Focus, I reference this text:

Casting a Spell wrote:
...Unless these components are elaborate, preparing them is a free action.

Yeah, I have to go with Artanthos on that one. How expensive something is has nothing to do with how elaborate something is. Something can be elaborate but cheap, or expensive but simple. If they wanted to refer to the cost of the item they would have simply said "expensive" and probably would have added an actual cost to the rule (like the material components worth less than 1 gp rule).

I could totally see a gnome craftsman making a holy symbol of Brigh that was a clockwork device you have to wind up... but normally a holy symbol will never be considered "elaborate."

Imbicatus wrote:
The gladiators also isn't PFS legal, as it relies on Performance combat, which isn't legal either.

Yes, good catch.

Though without performance combat in the game it is kinda hard to see why anyone would want that archetype.

As for a weapon, may I suggest a longspear.

You don't want to actually attack with it. Instead you want to use the Aid Another action to try to help Pumpkin the Tiger score hits. Since a longspear is a reach weapon you can stand behind pumpkin while using it. Your chance to hit will be pretty bad, but you only have to hit an AC 10 to use aid another, and this will grant Pumpkin either a +2 on his next to-hit roll or a +2 to his AC (your choice).

The problem with both acid splash and any ranged weapon is that once your enemies are in melee with your friends you will not only get a -4 penalty to hit because they are in melee but you will almost always also get a -4 to hit because they have cover (provided by your friend who is in the way). The sorcerer in my party tries to use acid splash a lot but almost never hits.

Because the crossbow can hit targets a long way away it is worth getting. The range of acid splash is so short that most of the time that an enemy is in range he is also in melee with someone in your party.

If you want a cantrip to attack with I suggest daze. Though it only works on humanoids, it is a pretty effective save or suck at low levels, assuming your save DC is decent. And you don't need to roll to hit.

BTW a masterwork backpack is a waste for a low STR character trying to keep to a light load. It increases your effective STR by 1 but it weighs 4 pounds instead of 2, which eliminates most of the advantage for using it. You want to give the masterwork backpack to the half-orc fighter with 18 STR. It does way more for him. Then get him to carry your stuff.


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Disrupt Undead is a cantrip, so you can use it over and over again.

If you could heal with it you would never need out-of-combat healing any more; a 1st level wizard could heal your entire 20th level party back to full given enough time.

Step 1: Put ranks in Use Magic Device
Step 2: Buy scroll or wand of Gravity Bow
Step 3: Profit!

If by "mutagen Warrior" you mean "mutation warrior" you should be aware that the mutation warrior is not legal for PFS:

Additional Resources wrote:

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Advanced Class Guide

All playtest versions of the ten new base classes from this book are no longer legal for play as of 8/14/14. Anyone playing the playtest version of one of the ten new base classes must have updated his or her character as of 8/14/14. Updating your character means adjusting only the things that have changed, but not rebuilding the character.

Archetypes: all archetypes on pages 75–133 are legal for play, except forgepriest, hex channeler, musketeer, mutation warrior, packmaster, primal companion hunter, primalist, spirit summoner, and steel hound.
Classes: All ten base classes are legal for play. Some classes are modified as follows:

Arcanist: The Item Crafting bonus feat is not legal for play.
Brawler: To utilize the Martial Flexibility class feature, the player must have the source book of the combat feat she wishes to utilize.
Shaman: Fetish hex replaces Craft Wondorous Item with Spell Focus. Shamans with the Nature spirit receive animal growth as a bonus spell at 10th level instead of awaken.
Skald: Skalds receive Extra Performance at 1st level instead of Scribe Scroll.
Warpriest: To utilize a blessing, a character must be a worshiper of the listed deity.

Equipment: all equipment and magic items on pages 202–237 are legal for play, except dust knuckles, false face, rod of abrupt hexes, and rod of voracious hexes.
Feats: all feats on pages 137–159 are legal for play, except Animal Soul, Divine Protection, Evolved Companion, and Spirited Gift.
Orders: The Order of the Beast is not legal for play.
Racial Favored Class Options: all racial favored class options on pages 69–71 are legal for play.
Spells: all spells on pages 162–199 are legal for play.

It sounds like the character is already generated and has risen to 3rd level. So he won't be able to retool anything like archetypes or traits at this point.

If this is the case you should speak to your local VC about it, explaining that you think that you may have violated the rules. He should be able to figure things out for you.

However, as I said, if your alignment changed prior to 2nd level this is not a problem. Since it doesn't seem to be a problem for any other features of your character, if I was your VC I probably would rule that your alignment changed to neutral and thus was playable all along.

The first step is to speak to your GM. If you think these arguments are relevant then direct him to read the thread.

I would expect that most GMs will say that this is not possible.

If I was the GM I would say that this is not possible.

If I was a player I would not expect my GM to permit such a thing.

The reason is that while it does not directly violate the stacking rules, it violates their principle, which is that you cannot duplicate an effect to double that effect. Specific circumstances that circumvent this should be directly spelled out, and if they are not then one should not assume that stacking is allowed.

In this case it seems that the advantage from Celestial mimics the advantage gained from mithral, only it is even better. I don`t think it was ever intended that this advantage would be combinable with the mithral benefits. A big part of the problem here is that the item dates from 3.5 and has not been clarified since then. The entry in CRB about celestial armor is basically copied from 3.5.

Hi, Darksol. Thanks for trying to answer this. However, it seems like you contradict yourself here.

Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
1. I believe in cases where you need to provide a divine focus, does the shield fulfill. It does not cover the somatic component (which is the gesturing), meaning you would have to still need the free hand.

OK, so here you say you need a separate hand.

Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
The divine focus would have to be brought out (if it has a high enough gold cost, a move action may be required) in order to be utilized for a given spell, but it can be held in the same free hand and still be used to cast spells.

Now here you say you can use the same hand that holds a divine focus to perform the gesturing for a spell.

If the shield counts as a divine focus, then why can't it be used this way? Is there anything in the description of the item (or elsewhere) that clarifies this?

Note that a divine focus tattoo costs only 100 gp and gets someone around the problem of having to "pull out" one's divine focus. So there is a non-magical way to get around the action economy issue of having to draw a divine focus. So I have a hard time understanding what the benefit of having a shield classified as a divine focus is, if not for the purpose of allowing it to be used to make gestures for spells.

BTW what does the gold cost of a divine focus have to do with how it is used? I really don't understand that.

Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
2. I would assume so, since for spells that use normal foci and/or materials, the single hand is all that's needed, subtracting the divine focus on-hand doesn't change the factor that you need to have a free hand to gesture with, which can be that free hand that otherwise possessed a divine focus.

I'm not sure you understand my question.

If the spell does not require a divine focus as a component, and I "choose" to add that component to the spell if I am a divine caster? If the answer is no then I would have to drop my divine focus when casting the spell; otherwise my hand would he holding an object not used in the spell and could not then be used for gesturing.


From the PRD:

PRD wrote:


A barbarian who becomes lawful loses the ability to rage and cannot gain more levels as a barbarian. She retains all other benefits of the class.

Barbarian Class

PRD wrote:


A monk who becomes nonlawful cannot gain new levels as a monk but retains all monk abilities.

Monk Class

So you cannot gain levels in either class when you are not the right alignment.

Note though that a monk that becomes non-lawful keeps all his monk abilities; he just can't gain more monk levels. So if you only wanted the single level in Monk, you could become neutral and then take barbarian levels without losing your monk abilities.

There is also an Aasimar sub-race that can take monk levels when neutral good. This costs a trait I think.


Chopper's Isle in Wayfinder #7 is one that I am about to run for my guys that are between Burnt Offerings and the Skinsaw Murders. They are level 4 and the mini-module is for level 3, but my guys only need a small boost before they get to 5th level.

Dawn of the Scarlet Sun is a free module set in Magnimar. The only problem with it is that it is also a murder mystery and this might mix up the plot somewhat.

Feast of Ravenmoor is also connected to Magnimar (though it is not a free module). It is for 3rd level characters but probably could be adjusted for 4th level.


Use these: gs/ThassilonRunes.jpg.html

(From further up in the thread)

In the Skinsaw Murders I like the idea of the mounting threat of ghouls roaming the countryside. But in the actual adventure there is really only one encounter with the ghouls, and this is at Hambley's farm. There are a few more ghouls in the Misgivings, but they feel kind of like an afterthought.

Has anyone done any more encounters with ghouls, that might fit in between the farm and the sanatorium? Or perhaps after the farm but before Misgivings?


I like the idea that the Goblin PC will be in prison and ends up "proving himself" to the town when he escapes during the Swallowtail festival. However, many people in town may still suspect he is a spy.

If you are going ahead with that idea though, I would recommend having the player come up with some kind of physical difference (like a big white birthmark on his face) that lets the people of Sandpoint tell the difference between him and the 'bad' goblins. Also, this may have been a part of why he was not accepted in Goblin society to begin with.

Fromper wrote:
I'm with NobodysHome on this one. My group had fun "having visions" and getting the history of the house and family, even if there was no negative impact.

Sure... I can see how this would work. But I do want the players to interact with things in the house; they shouldn't just be tourists.

Fromper wrote:
Of course, they also never figured out that the paladin is immune or boosts the saves of the others, and I decided not to give them any hints about that. Having them fail a few saves makes things more fun. *evil grin*

This is a neat idea. I may have the paladin character roll saves anyway (and just never tell him that he failed a save) and not tell him it's a fear effect.

NobodysHome wrote:
Yeah, I'll just reiterate: Just because she's immune doesn't mean she isn't "affected".

That was a great story, NH. And that does clear up one thing... I wasn't sure if the immunity would prevent "seeing" the haunt.

I may add some monsters to the house anyway, on account of the encounters will mostly go perception-initiative-will save-channel energy, repeat.

To clear something up though... if a haunt is directed at a specific person, then the other characters don't even see it, right? In that case, do the other players still get a chance to notice that something is up before the haunt goes off? Or do they not have any chance to intervene until they see the haunted character go nuts?

Also, can anyone give me examples of haunts with a secondary affect that will work on the Paladin?


Is there a way to do a decent archer build as a cleric or oracle? It doesn't have to be super-optimal, but has to keep up.


Sawtooth Sabre will allow DEX to damage, but does not allow weapon finesse. So basically you are in the same boat as with any other slashing weapon here except the penalty for TWF is less - you still want STR for the to-hit chance.

I think the Dervish Dance thing was that the other hand has to be empty - no shield, no weapon. So they were willing to give DEX to damage for that feat because you are limiting your character in other ways. Having an empty off-hand is bad for almost every class - except magus, of course.


If I was your GM in a home game I would probably allow this with the attack penalty applying to your feint check. Check with your GM.

But in a PFS game this will not work.


Most recently:

Seltaine Greyfeather - Aasimar (Angel-kin) Bloodrager (celestial bloodline), NG. For PFS. Seltaine is of Kellid descent and looks pretty human. Haven't developed much of a backstory for him yet.

Yazan Ashwater - Tiefling (Hungerseed) Inquisitor of Feronia, N. For PFS. Born of a half-orc priestess and an ogre mage father, Yazan was raised in the hold of Belkzen but was eventually driven out. She discovered the faith of Feronia when taught by Kellid shamans and then travelled south through Varisia where she ended up joining the Varisian wandering caravans. Not having a lot of respect for "civilized" ways she joined the Sczarni.

Dregarvonis - Silver Dragon Paladin, LG. This is for a 3.5 game and the character was originally an NPC designed by the GM, using an optional system for dragon PCs that appeared in Dragon magazine.


Okay, I appreciate the feedback here.

Reliquary Weapon/Shield seems to do the same thing as the channeling focus shield but works for any divine casting class.

Gloves of storing are too expensive and are not an option at this level. When my players get a bit higher it is possible but it seems like a waste of a slot. Once metamagic rods come into play then the glove of storing will look a lot better, but the other hand will also need to be free.

Weapon cords are not bad, though the move action to recover the weapon limits it a bit.

But my question was this:

1. When using a shield (or possibly a reliquary weapon) that counts as a divine focus, does the hand holding the shield/weapon satisfy the "hand free to gesture" requirement for spells with somatic components?

While I am at it, let me ask this other question:

2. Can I use a hand holding a divine focus to gesture if the spell does not require a divine focus as a component?

Love answers to these. Thanks.


The haunt rules indicate that the central effect for a haunt is a fear effect, and Paladins are immune to fear by the time they are high enough level to get here. In addition their anti-fear aura will make the other saves way easier for everyone else.

Is this true? Or is there a way that haunts get around a paladin's fear immunity? Anyone have any recommendations?


Well, the party steamrolled Malfeshnekor in about 4 or 5 rounds.

The Oracle cast a couple of spiritual weapons, the Sorc used create pit to slow him down and then spammed magic missile, the paladin got in a couple good smite evil hits, and the rogue(scout) was buffed with vanish and got in a good couple of sneak attacks. Most of the melee hits made it past the blink, but even if they didn't the combat would have probably only lasted a couple more rounds.

Not sure what I could have done to make this fight harder... I probably should have had M use charm monster and crushing despair right off the bat instead of saving them as the tactics dictated.


You will have to change the campaign world rather drastically.

In Varisia, in fact in Avistan and the regions around it, goblins and orcs are universally reviled as evil and enemies of the core races. Orcs do (rarely) have some peaceful contact with humans (such as in the city of Kaer Maga), and you could work in some "orcish mercenary companies" or something, though this will be tricky. The flat penalty across the board for mental stats really hurts for orcs though.

You could change Burnt Offerings around and make the enemies Kobolds instead of Goblins. This will take a bit of work because kobolds are not as dangerous as goblins, so they will need to be beefed up a bit. Kobolds are a bit smarter and will not play as stupidly. A kobold stronghold will have a lot more traps than Thistletop does.

Doing this turns the kobolds into the bad guys and allows you to change what goblins are like. Basically replace the references to goblins in official materials to kobolds and that's most of what you need to do. You probably also need to add areas where "peaceful" goblins live... they don't have to be as peaceful as everyone else but they do have to usually not make much trouble for their neighbours. BTW for Bruthazmus the Bugbear, change him to Bruthazmus the Wyvaran.

Another thing would be to change the game so that instead of Magnimar the local "big city" is Kaer Maga, where pretty much anyone can find a place, even orcs and goblins. Make Sandpoint into a satellite town of Kaer Maga, one that produces an important resource for Kaer Maga. Make this town a lesser "Kaer Maga" where anything goes. This campaign would be pretty cool but would have a very different feel than a conventional RotRL game.

However, I have a suspicion that your players want to play these races simply because they grant a +4 to an ability score, and on paper that looks really great. But in this case I would put to them that making a more balanced character will be important for the campaign, and suggest these alternatives:

1. Have the orc player play a half-orc. Half-orcs are actually quite good and they can be customized in a lot of ways. They also count as both orcs and humans for the purpose of feats, favoured class bonuses, etc. RotRL is a campaign where skill checks can be important, and will saves are also important. Dumping INT, WIS and CHA can really make a character useless in a lot of situations.

2. Suggest the alchemist be a kobold. Kobolds are a lot of fun and they have some useful abilities especially if you get the advanced race guide. Kobolds are a bit weak and you could get away with bumping their DEX bonus from +2 to +4 or giving them a +2 to INT in addition to their existing bonuses, and this doesn't really overpower them. If the player plays a kobold then you can leave the background on goblins the way it is.



By my reading, you cannot levitate unless you are an ethereal creature. The Blink spell seems to copy the general rules for ethereal creatures, but if you are blinking you are only ethereal half the time. Therefore you can levitate upward for a second or two but then will fall again when you blink in again. Since you fall faster than your walking speed you generally should not be able to gain altitude when blinking.

So yes, an unconscious blinking character would fall, but so would a conscious one.

If someone is already falling while blinking I would use the rules for passing through a solid object, but I would give them a 50% chance of not passing through the floor at all.


Only the Paladin has martial weapon proficiency and she's using the longsword. She has a shield also, so she can't use the bastard sword without dropping the shield, and even if she did nobody else can use a longsword.


dragonhunterq wrote:
First: yeah! I'm not touching this one. It depends on whether, when you go ethereal, does the glitterdust go with you?

I would guess that it does, but ethereal glitterdust probably wouldn't be visible to people who can't see onto the ethereal plane. So yeah, I'm going to run this one as still granting the +2.

dragonhunterq wrote:

Second: yep, but I wouldn't recommend it

you don't just blink out once each round, so it's not exactly every three seconds.

Yeah, I know that, but it is implied that you spend about 50% of the time ethereal.

If a person used ethereality to climb for three seconds, this would probably be at walking speed, like air walk or other similar abilities. Then if he fell for three seconds, well, you can fall a lot further than that in three seconds. If you were falling first, and then went ethereal mid-fall, you would have to use your ethereal speed to nullify the momentum you already had.

So I think what I will do is rule that a blinking creature falls at half normal speed and suffers half falling damage, but cannot use blink to fly.


I suppose the issue is for spells like sleep and color spray. Do negative levels reduce your HD for these spells?

First: Does blink still grant a +2 to hit against people who can't see invisible ethereal creatures if the blinking creature is under the effects of glitterdust?

Second: The description of blink describes the ability of ethereal creatures to move in any direction, including up and down:

PRD wrote:
An ethereal creature is invisible, incorporeal, and capable of moving in any direction, even up or down.

Does this apply while using blink? Or is it simply an explanation of how ethereal creatures work? A blinking creature is only ethereal 50% of the time, so I have a hard time imagining that blink would allow you to effectively levitate. You would rise for three seconds and then fall for three seconds each round.


I'm not going to have him levitating at the start of the battle, because the party sorcerer has create pit and I don't want to completely nerf that. But M will use levitate to get out of the pit, and after he has it up he will be immune.

Magic Weapon-wise the party has Koruvus' +1 longsword and Ripnugget's small +1 shortsword. Nobody can use Nualia's bastard sword. The oracle has a couple scrolls of magic weapon. I'm not worried about invisibility as the party has a couple scrolls of glitterdust.

It looks like the trick will be to spam force effects which get past blink. The party sorc can spam magic missile @ three missiles a pop and the oracle can throw spiritual weapon up to 4 times.


Some neat ideas, but I would be hesitant to make so many plot-important characters related to one another.

Also, the problem with Nualia being Lonjiku`s daughter is that I have a hard time imagining a celestial being interested in Lonjiku.

A 10th level sorcerer would charge 500 gp to cast teleport, so they are making about par for a caster casting teleport, but then nothing on their way back (assuming the trip`s profit is 480 gp).

If your caster can cast teleport he could just offer to teleport people around and make just as much. :)

Well, he can turn into a goblin or a wolf if he wants to walk around without getting burnt, but DR does not protect against fire damage, strictly speaking.

Hi, folks.

My players will be encountering Malfeshnekor next session and I`m looking for some tips.

The thing that disturbs me about this fight is the room itself. With the pit of fire in the middle, there are limited spots that Malfeshnekor can stand in without being burned. He has almost no mobility unless he uses the squeezing rules to get past the fire, or dimension doors or levitates across the room.

Is this your experience And what did you do about it?

It may be that the limited mobility is intentional in order to give the players a better chance. But forcing Malfeshnekor to park in the corner makes it tricky for my party rogue to do much here.



Deadalready wrote:
From the amount of time I've spent trying to *understand* Magnimar and learn all the districts/locales/people I think you're doing a great disservice to your players roleplaying and opportunity wise if you visit another city.

I am actually thinking more about during the party`s exploration of the Storval Plateau, either in Part 4: The Fortress of the Stone Giants or in Part 6: The Spires of Xin-Shalast. Magnimar really only features in Part 2: The Skinsaw Murders, and after that the players don`t have any adventures there, though they do remain in connection with the people of Magnimar.


If a rogue uses stealth to gain total concealment, and succeeds, and then attacks, does he lose his concealment in the same manner as with invisibility?

In other words, would total concealment due to stealth only grant sneak attack damage on the very first attack? Or all of them?


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I'd love to play a Gillman, though I do feel they get a bit short-changed on the racial abilities.

Also Strix, definitely... but this would never be allowed.


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This will not be a problem.

Technically you do not have to register your PFS characters at all, though I personally find that it is fun to do so.

Go ahead and open the "My Account" link. Scroll down to Pathfinder Society and click "Make Changes". This will opena a page where you can create a second character by clicking "Register a new Roleplaying Character". It works just like the first one. You can end up with lots of characters if you want.


I recently got the City of Strangers PDF and I'd love to find a way to work it into my RotRL campaign. Anyone ever do this? And if so, at what point in the campaign did you do it?

Love to hear about it.


My group will likely finish Thistletop in its next session (though they may never encounter things like the Bunyip), and this will be their fourth session there. Our sessions last about 3.5 hours, usually.

Mind you, the party was 2nd level when they arrived there, which is about what is normally expected in the module (typically they would level to third after clearing out the mainland and getting to the bridge, and get to fourth before encountering Nualia).

Ashkar's party of 4th level guys no doubt finished the area quickly, as they were a lot stronger than is necessary for the module.

The first session got off to a really slow start having a big debate within the party as to the "perfect" way to approach the area. They ended up taking a boat and scaling the cliff up to the top of the island. They then broke into Ripnugget's bedchamber via the roof, and their first fight in Thistletop was in his throne room. It was a big fight and we called it after that since the fight brought them to 3rd level.

The second session got them through the rest of the ground level of Thistletop and the group decided to camp in one of the towers, so I had Bruthazmus come up the stairs with some goblins to interrupt their camping attempt.

They swept the 1st underground level (except the tentamort) in the second session and explored some of the 2nd underground level including the portcullis trap, but we called that session before starting another combat.


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