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Peet's page

Pathfinder Society Member. 679 posts (701 including aliases). No reviews. 1 list. No wishlists. 5 Pathfinder Society characters. 2 aliases.


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Arawn Vasska wrote:

I wish I had something to be doing frantically right now. Instead I'm just wringing my hands in antici...





...But maybe the rain...

isn't really to blame...

so I'll remove the cause...

heh heh heh...


but NOT... the SYMPTOMS!!!

May I offer for consideration Numalar Auritonius, a gnome sorcerer. Suitable for Ruler (everyone wants to be the ruler!) or Magister. High Charisma so also suitable for other roles. Arcane caster but also decent social skills.

Numalar is a Gnome of medium height, 3' 6" tall and weighing about 41 lbs. The most distinct thing people notice about him is the unusual faint golden cast to his skin. Much of his skin bears small tattoos of strange runes and sigils. His eyes are also golden; a rare though not unheard of colour for gnomish eyes. His hair is black but shot with a golden streak running from above his left eye; here and there other individual hairs are also gold; as he ages his hair turns gold instead of grey. He wears a bristly beard and moustache, also black but shot with the odd golden hair. He wears clothing of black and gold, and though clearly this clothing was once fine it is now worn and threadbare. He smells of smoke; smudges of soot can be seen here and there among his clothing and gear, and he never seems to quite be able to get things clean. Sometimes he wears what appears to be armor, though on closer inspection it turns out that this armor is fake and just for show. His eyes burn with a certain intensity and while he seems friendly and cheerful there is a bitterness just beneath the surface, and his jokes can quickly turn cruel and sarcastic.

Numalar has become obsessed with restoring his family's name and heritage to some kind of noble status. He feels that he is entitled to the respect and dignity of someone of royal blood, and in fact this is a tenet of his religion, that his ancestors are the royalty of Valdralee, though secretly he has doubts that this is true, though his magic would seem to be proof of his claim. He overcompensates for these doubts with a certain pride and arrogance, though these things are a mask, and affectation to protect him from the possibility that there is nothing noble about him at all. Yet he is schooled in the etiquette and rules of court, and maintains his honour and dignity whenever possible. He keeps his promises and has goodwill towards others, though he hides this fact out of a desire to avoid being taken advantage of. He adopts a more gruff mercenary attitude around strangers (though he can be taken in by a good sob story and then shows a sympathetic side), and he has little respect for lawbreakers and those people who violate their society's mores.

Alignment is LG but he comes off as LN to outsiders most of the time.

Numalar was raised on stories of the long-lost city of Valdralee. His father taught him that he was decended from the Princes of Valdralee and always insisted that he know everything about it.

His father described Valdralee as a city of gold and jewels and fire, a city of tall spires, beautiful gardens that bore fruits of ruby and emerald and sapphire, and fountains that sprayed diamonds instead of water. Valdralee was located in the First World, but also at the center of the world and on the surface of the sun simultaneously. It was at the center of the universe and yet secret and hidden. Numalar always wondered how a city could be in three places at once, but his father always said that "within the First world all things are possible." Even the people of Valdralee were made of gold.

Valdralee was ruled by a council of nine princes, wise and powerful scions of the great houses of the city, and the princes of the city had the ability to turn into dragons. Valdralee was the Capital City of the First World, and was a beacon of enlightenment to all. When the way was opened between the First World and the material plane, the Dominion of the city of Valdralee spread to all of Golarion as well. The knights of Valdralee took the shape of gold dragons to better protect the dominion of Valdralee and they remained in these forms; thus the gold dragons of today are allegedly descended from these Valdralean knights.

According to his father's stories, the city of Valdralee fell when the Rough Beast Rovagug was cast down and imprisoned within Golarion. The creation of the Pit of Gormuz shattered the city's connection with the center of the world. The towers of the city fell, and the gnomes of the city and the lands ruled by the city fled to the Material Plane. The gnomes of Valdralee found Golarion cold and harsh and moved underground to be near the rivers of magma that ran there. For a short time the Princes of Valdralee continued to rule the world, but not long afterwards the people of the world rejected the Princes and went their own ways. The descendants of the Princes never forgot, however, and retained the memory of their noble heritage.

Numalar's father seemed convinced that these stories were absolutely true, though anyone else Numalar spoke to outside of his family considered it pure fiction, and derided Numalar for believing it. When he would suggest to his father that Valdralee was not a real place, his father would grow stern and angry, and would force him to recite the geneaology of House Auritonius, and would strike him for every error. With over 300 generations of ancestors, Numalar would rarely get it right. While other gnome families would teach their children useful crafts, Numalar's family taught him the rules of courtly etiquette and behaviour. Though they honoured the gods Brigh, Abadar, Nethys, and even occaisionally Apsu, their primary devotions were to the spirits of their ancestors. As with the other foibles of his family, many of Numalar's neighbours derided his family for this practice, insisting that Numalar's ancestors were not divine.

Numalar grew up in a town deep within the darklands, a hybrid city consisting of lava gnomes, svirfneblin, duergar, mongrelmen, kobolds, and even a few derro. Though many gnomes lived there, Numalar's family was always distinct due to the slight golden cast of their skin. Numalar's father was also known for his arrogant and haughty demeanor and this brought Numalar's family into conflict with others on many occaisions. Eventually, an altercation between Numalar's father and the kobolds of the town escalated into a genuine feud, and the lava gnomes disowned the Auritonius family, having gotten fed up with their attitude. Numalar's family was forced to leave.

Numalar and his parents made their way to the surface, and they attempted to make a new life among the people of the world above. They found themselves in the land of Brevoy, near the Golushkin Mountains. Numalar's father's coutly manners got him a place in the court of House Garess, where he would spin tales of Valdralee for the entertainment of the court. A sorcerer of middling power, Numalar's father would often be sent on errands to treat with the dwarves of the mountains or to provide magical assistance with the patrols of House Garess as they watched for Numerian raiders.

Despite the overt friendship offered by Lord Garess and his family, Numalar's father was never given any sort of official position or title, nor was he ever given any lands or estate to call his own. In short, Numalar's family was always dependent on the generosity of House Garess, and was required to serve the house as a courtier to ensure their continued hospitality. Though Numalar's father seemed content with this, Numalar was secretly disgusted by his father's behaviour. In Numalar's eyes, his father had become little more than a court jester, and had traded their dignity for a warm bed and a full belly. Had he truly been descended from Royalty as he always claimed, his father ought to have struck out on his own, and achieved some sort of dominion on his own.

In this time Numalar descended gradually into depression and idleness. Good at making friends, he began to associate with a number of dissipate young nobles, who lived their lives drinking, carousing, and getting into fights, always confident that their status would prevent them from getting into any real trouble. Numalar spun his own stories of Valdralee to his friends, inventing a darker, more violent side of the ancient city. He would describe their wars with their arch-enemies the Red Dragons, and it seemed to most listeners that his stories were an allegory of the Nation of Brevoy and its arguably evil conquerors the house Rogarvia, a fact which often got him into trouble. Numalar's father eventually became as disgusted with Numalar's lifestyle as Numalar was with his father's.

Gradually though Numalar found that the young men he caroused with grew out of their idleness and settled down; one by one they got married or inherited their parents' estates, and the the once carefree youths became more serious and mature. Numalar felt himself to be more and more isolated. He was getting older, and the younger generation had little interest in him, yet his friends had all seemed to move on.

Numalar was practically a recluse and approaching middle age when the nation of Brevoy was shaken to its core. The ruling house, house Rogarvia, mysteriously disappeared, leaving Brevoy without a ruler. Though house Surtova would ultimately gain the throne, for a short while the houses of Brevoy jockeyed for position and a number of skirmishes were fought, skirmishes which might have escalated into full-blown war. Despite his age, Numalar's father joined the forces of house Garess and his magical prowess proved to be of great service to house Garess. Numalar was shocked that his father was willing to participate, and risk his life in battle. His father's actions revealed a side to him that Numalar had never understood.

But despite his father's value on the battlefield, his father was mortally wounded by a poisoned arrow that seemed to defy magical healing. On his deathbed Numalar's father told Numalar that it was time for him to head out on his own. "It is your duty and destiny to reestablish Valdralee," he said to Numalar. "Of all the great houses of the nine princes, ours is the last that remains, and each generation is smaller than the last. You must restore our family's honour and rebuild Valdralee here on Golarion, before the memory of Valdralee is lost forever." That night Numalar's father died.

His father's words burned Numalar to the core. Realizing that he had wasted half his life with practially nothing to show for it, he found himself with a new passion. Though house Garess gave Numalar a substantial "reward" for his father's service to them, it became clear that house Garess had little interest in retaining Numalar the way they had retained his father. This suted Numalar fine; he needed to get out on his own, and the machinations of the noble courts seemed to him to be a dead end. He used the funds to finance genuine magical training; though always posessed of magical gifts as are most Lava Gnomes, Numalar had little understanding of the practical applications of magic and realized that magic was the one thing that might get him where he needed to be.

It is now several years later, and Numalar's studies are complete. Though he is nearly out of money, he has heard of opportnities in the south of the country and intends to make his fortune, hopefully earning a proper title and perhaps a fief or estate.

Though he honours the spirits of his ancestors as his father taught him, he no longer sees Valdralee as an actual place so much as an ideal, a concept of the "Perfect City." The tale of Valdralee informs us about the rewards of honour and civilization, and he aspires to live up to these ideals as best he can.

"Numalar Auritonius"

Score Base Pts. Race Age
04 STR 07 -4 -2 -1
14 DEX 15 7 0 -1
12 CON 11 1 +2 -1
16 INT 15 7 0 +1
12 WIS 11 1 0 +1
20 CHA 17 13 +2 +1

Racial Abilities:
Scores: +2 CON, +2 CHA, -2 STR
Middle Aged: -1 STR, DEX, CON, +1 INT, WIS, CHA
Type: Humanoid
Size: Small
Speed: 20 feet
Languages: Common, Gnome, Sylvan, Draconic, Undercommon

Alternate Racial Traits
Pyromaniac: +1 CL for fire spells.
Spell Like Abilities 1/day: Dancing Lights, Prestidigitation,
Flare, Produce Flame
Darkvision 60'
Gift of Tongues: +1 to Bluff & Diplomacy, 2x Languages from Linguistics
Academician: +2 to one Knowledge skill (Nobility)

Noble Born (Garess): Ignore the first 5 feet of rocky difficult terrain;
+2 to appraise checks to evaluate natural gems and metals
Adopted: Golden-Scaled (Kobold) +2 to Bluff & Diplomacy when dealing with
non-reptile humanoids; -1 when dealing with Kobolds
Magical Knack: +2 CL but max CL equals HD
Pride: When challenged, accused, or threatened, -2 on Diplomacy and Sense
Motive vs. that person until they apologize.

Feat: Noble Scion (War) +2 to Knowledge (Nobility) and use CHA for

Class: Sorcerer (Razmiran priest archetype from Inner Sea Magic) & Draconic Bloodline (gold)
Bloodline Arcana: +1 damage per die for fire spells
Bonus Feat: False Focus

Spells Per Day: 5 1st level
Spells Known:
0 Detect Magic
0 Read Magic
0 Daze
0 Acid Splash
1 Burning Hands
1 Enlarge Person


1 Knowledge: Nobility 11
1 Knowledge: Arcana 7
1 Spellcraft 7
1 Linguistics 4

0 Perception 1

1 Bluff 9 (11 vs. non-reptile humanoids, 8 vs. Kobolds)
0 Diplomacy 5 (7 vs. non-reptile humanoids, 4 vs. Kobolds)
1 Use Magic Device 9

I haven't done gear yet; not sure how starting cash is going to be determined.

Numalar is a half-decent blaster caster, but with a secondary focus on social skills. This is tricky for a sorcerer so his stats are a bit weak in many areas. He will also likely be taking the Dragon Disciple prestige class at level 6 or 7. The Razmiran Priest archetype represents the adherence to a false religion; in Numalar's case this represents his ancestor worship and reverence of lost Valdralee, which may have never existed in the first place. This gives Numalar a bonus on UMD checks to activate divine items which makes him something of a backup healer if things go wrong with the party's divine caster. Tactically, at first level he focuses on using Enlarge Person on his allies, not only boosting their combat effectiveness but also drawing fire away from himself, and he saves Burning Hands for when it is possible to finish off an enemy or group of enemies.

Looking forward to hearing who the winners are!



Yeah, I've been into the idea of a Kingmaker game for a long time.

I'll see what I can come up with.


Lizardfolk definitely.
Strix. Particularly some tips for GMs on running a low-level game with flying characters.

I think the exploit that comes to my mind is a TWF rogue with a 15' reach. I'm not sure though if I feel if it is overpowered. I'll have to see someone actually try to play one.

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Jason Nelson wrote:
Rite Publishing wrote:

Helm of Underwater Action

would be far more fun it if brought the action of underwater to the surface, and was not so damn expensive.

The helm was cool in 1st Ed also for some of its quirks, like the lenses that slid out to help you see underwater, and the fact that it made a bubble of air around your head instead of letting you actually breathe water (though that did inspire arguments about whether you could use it out of the water to protect yourself from poison gas).

Despite the name this item does NOTHING to help you score with mermaids.

Rynjin wrote:
It's great for Oracles.

I don't know... being behind a level in spellcasting hurts especially for oracles and sorcerers. If your orcale takes this class at level 6 you don't get 3rd level spells until 7th level.


I looked at this PRC when people started talking about it, and I really coulnd't see myself trading a class level in my chosen class for it. I suppose there might be some corner case where the powers granted by Deific Obedience compliment a specific build but Overall I have a hard time seeing this as worth it.

So I personally wouldn't try to limit the effectiveness of the class.

If you had some kind of weird ability to impose a different condition (such as sickened) on someone when making a demoralize attempt, then this would work on a Paladin. But shaken is specifically fear.

Obviously the PF Haunt rules were written after the Core Rulebook so the text of disrupt undead should be superseded by anything in the haunt rules that suggests that they are vulnerable to it.

PRD wrote:
positive energy applied to the haunt (via channeled energy, cure spells, and the like) can damage the haunt's hit points...

The use of the phrase "and the like" suggests to me that disrupt undead would work.

Do you guys agree?

Is a haunt a valid target for disrupt undead?

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175. A Brown Dwarf surrounded by a system of large moons/planets. The Brown Dwarf does not emit any significant amount of visible light, but frequent magnetic storms erupt in its upper atmosphere, sending electrical shockwaves throughout the system.

When these shockwaves strike a planet in this system, their ionospheres light up with an effect much like our Northern Lights, only these lights appear all over the planet and simulate "daylight" there, only on these worlds daylight consists of wild colours in the sky and the length of these days are irregular and unpredictable.

If I was running a game from first level I would agree on limiting Aasimar and Tiefling characters, though how I do it is that I reduce some of the benefits of the races.

In my games Aasimar are considered humanoids (but with an outsider subtype) and also only choose one energy resistance out of the three. Tieflings also are considered humanoids in my games, though they still look like tieflings, and again they must choose only one energy resistance out of the three.

However, a Goblin specced for stealth can be practically invisible. They get +4 for their size, a +4 racial bonus, and +2 deriving from their racial bonus to Dexterity. It is quite feasible to have a +17 to stealth right off the bat, or even a +20 with skill focus. Goblins can be very powerful depending on the type of character played.


It looks like you need a swift action for this to work:

PRD wrote:
The Surprise Round: .... combatants who started the battle aware of their opponents each take a standard or move action during the surprise round. You can also take free actions during the surprise round.
PRD wrote:

Swift Actions

.... You can take a swift action anytime you would normally be allowed to take a free action.

So it seems that you can take a swift action during the surprise round. This is probably the only way to use this rogue talent. It`s tough to count on a surprise round though. Many combats won't have them.

I think you probably could use a spring-loaded wrist sheath to hold a tube arrow shooter.

If I was the GM in a home game I would allow a masterwork tube arrow shooter to be made with a trigger that could be held in the hand; a sleight-of-hand check would be enough to keep it out of sight. However, holding the trigger in your hand would occupy the hand as a weapon does. This would allow you to use the tube while it is still in your sleeve. I might impose a penalty to-it though as you are not actually holding it. That probably wouldn`t matter much as your opponent in this case is probably flat-footed.


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blackbloodtroll wrote:
Why does the make-up get a surprise attack, and why would a Barbarian dodge it?

I believe he was referring to the color (in French) rather than the type of make-up. I would rule though that a color only gets a surprise attack if it is very loud, like neon orange or fuschia. For example, I have a Halfling who has a +2 Hawaiian shirt that grants surprise attacks and can dazzle enemies.

@ Mavael:

A ring of force shield comes close to doing what you want and costs 8,500 gp. It provides a +2 shield bonus to AC. It does nothing against magic missiles though.

As a GM I would allow a +4 version of this ring for 34,000 gp, which is 4x the base price. I would actually allow versions of this that scaled from +1 to +5, with the +1 costing 2,125 gp. Check with your GM though before you try this.

The thing to watch for is using the crafting rules to make items based on spells with a range of personal. Often these spells are designed to mitigate the problems of being a spellcaster of the type that casts the spell, but are specifically designed so that the caster cannot cast the spell on someone else. For example, shield is intended as a buff for classes that normally cannot use shields. One of the most common uses for the kind of item you suggested is for two-handed weapon wielder to gain the benefit of a two-handed weapon and a shield bonus at the same time. Since the two-handed weapon wielder typically can use a shield but gave it up in favour of more damage, having an item that grants a shield bonus while still using a two-handed weapon is like having your cake and eating it too.

True strike is another good example. It's not that big a deal to give a wizard a +20 on a to-hit roll, but it is a huge deal for an enlarged vital striking barbarian. Search the forums for "permanent true strike item" and you'll see a lot of threads on this subject.

This is essentially the reason that potions cannot be made out of spells with a range of personal.

So overall it is best to assume that a spell with a range of personal cannot be made into a spell effect item without serious consideration, and you should usually assume they won't be allowed unless they are spell trigger or spell completion items.


In the campaign I am GMing, the party currently includes (in no particular order):

Roanak - human oracle of life
Jasok - human rogue scout
Jarvis - human air elemental sorcerer
Faenauriel - half-elf paladin of Iomedae

Faenauriel was introduced after the Catacombs of Wrath, where Cromdarr Thunderhead, the half-orc fighter, died.


It's been a while since I looked at the Beginner Box module, but I have to say I wouldn't recommend using it without major modifications.

beginner box module:
The module uses a black dragon as the BBEG, which should normally be enough to TPK the party. In order to make the encounter survivable, the module gives the dragon a weakness and allows the party to find a +1 dragonbane longsword along with a unique energy resistance item that outght to be worth thousands of gp. The end result is that at the end of the module the party wealth is WAY beyond the normal WBL guidelines.

If you want to change it the resistance gem should probably be turned into a consumable item with charges. Likewise the dragonbane sword should probably be swapped with a unique item like a talisman that grants the bane property to a weapon, but otherwise functions as an oil of magic weapon.

The dragon himself could be swapped out for some kind of drake... alternately you could leave the dragon in (with weakness) but later replace longtooth with him assuming he escapes. If you leave him as a black dragon he should definitely be a recurring villain.

Finally, if this is to be the den of one of the goblin tribes, the tribe really should be larger. Some of the rooms should have goblins added, even if these end up being goblin commoners instead of goblin warriors.

The other thing about the beginner box module is that there really is no story at all to it. The GM needs to work on it in order to have the module make some kind of sense.


If I run this again, in future I may expand the size of the room. Possibly the room could even end up being a kind of demiplane if it won't fit within Thistletop.

I agree that ghouls would not remember their former life, except in exceptional cases (where it might benefit the storyline perhaps).

But just because Foxglove is the only one looking for greedy souls does not mean there will not be other ghoul attacks on greedy people. Foxglove does lead the ghouls. Major attacks are going to be orchestrated by him.

Wandering random-encounter style ghoul attacks would probably be pretty easy for my party to deal with (even if they are scripted). I have a paladin and an oracle of life in my party.

On the other hand they might miss the idea that Farmer Hambley was greedy. After hearing that his farm has been overrun they are not likely to ask questions about the victim. So more greedy people helps the pattern become clearer.

Splendor wrote:

It was months ago.

Targeted bomb admixture double your INT bonus to damage, but doesn't allow splash damage.

Ah, that explains it. So it could have been more damage probably. Was your INT 20 then? 1d6+11?

Splendor wrote:
Malfeshnekor has a 5' reach he couldn't attack them from the corner, its 15' from the furthest square you could see him from. His touch AC is 13, if you allowed cover it would be 17, wizard had (I think) a +6 to hit with ranged attacks at this point.

Cover is a significant bonus; it drops the hit chance of bombs and flasks from 70% to 50%. That plus a 20% miss chance means only 40% of those attacks are getting through.

Meanwhile you have to expose yourself to a charge attack to attack him while he is in the corner, since you have to come right to the doorway to get line-of-sight. He can still attack a creature in the squares just outside the room. With Bull's Strength and Charge he has a +18 to hit and will do 1d8+8 on his charge. That probably nearly always hits and your wizard/alchemist can likely only take 2 or maybe 3 of those hits before going down.

If Malfeshnekor can get a party member to stand in the doorway then he can move out of the corner to attack. Then the party falls back and range attacks him, he goes back to the corner, repeat. This strategy is still good because it limits him to a single attack every second round instead of a full attack every round. But he has a lot of hit points; if he concentrates on one enemy he could probably take him down.

Splendor wrote:

It doesn't really matter because Malfeshnekor can't leave the room. The PCs could easily travel back to Sandpoint stock up on supplies and go back. Then simply pour oil into the room and catch the whole room on fire to kill him.

Malfeshnekor is only dangerous if PCs enter the room. Our party's fighter did and died, then the rest of the party just killed him from outside.

Of course, if the party is really difficult to get at Malfeshnekor could just close the doors, and hold them shut.

Your party mook would have to make some kind of opposed strength check to get them open again, and if he did Malfeshnekor could full attack afterwards.

On the other hand, maybe Malfeshnekor wants to die. He's been trapped for 10,000 years in there and is probably a bit nuts.

EDIT: actually, an amusing but weird strategy would be for him to cast mass enlarge person on the party. The Wizard in this case would probably fail his save, and his AC and ranged to hit both would go down by 2. It also prevents two people standing in the hall side-by-side (unless some of the characters were small) which means cover penalties for everyone except the guy in front.


Good point about the miss chance, though that only affects the one character. Alchemist is also a pretty good class for this encounter. However, splash damage is area effect and will automatically do only 50% damage (25% on a save), though a direct hit will still do normal damage (assuming the miss chance didn't get you). The normal 1 point of splash damage from a non-alchemist will do nothing to a blinking character.

It also looks like you also have inflated your damage calculations. It looks like the character has an INT of 22, right? This is why you have listed holy water as doing 2d4+6 damage?

If so your regular bombs will do 1d6+7, not 1d6+10. Point Blank shot adds 1 damage and Firebug adds nothing to damage (it only adds +1 to attack rolls). Minimum splash damage will be 8, but this is reduced by 50% by the blink spell.

Likewise, if your holy water does 2d4+6 damage on a hit then the splash damage will be 7. The rule about splash damage equaling the minimum hit damage only applies to alchemist bombs, not other thrown splash weapons. Holy water normally does 1 splash damage but since you are an alchemist it will be 1 + 6, or 7 points. However, blinking reduces this by 50%, to 3, and a successful save reduces it to 1.

Yes, the idea of him preparing a charge in the corner of the room is exactly what I mean. He certainly is not going to stand in a spot where he can be hit but cannot retaliate. Someone who wants to throw a bomb/acid flask etc. Will have to at the very least stand in the squares just outside the room in order to get him (and from there M will have cover against this attack). As long as they are in the squares just outside the doorway M can attack them, and his bite does a lot of damage.

The idea that Malfeshnekor will stand there and do nothing is pretty silly. That basically turns it into a CR0 encounter.


If you have an "Atlantis" in your campaign world you should remember that Thassilon was basically an evil offshoot of that culture. If your version of Atlantis turned to evil then this is fine but if they weren't then you should make Thassilon some kind of colony that went astray (though the event that destroyed Azlant also destroyed Thassilon at the same time).

The game is set in two regions; lower Varisia is fertile and fairly civilized, but is still a "frontier" compared to more major nations. The Storval Plateau is arid and inhabited by the barbaric Shoanti along with lots of monsters such as giants and orcs. There are a lot of Thassilonian ruins here and there all over the region.

It will take a lot of knowledge to rebuild the tower in such a way to defend the town. Possibly some evil magic too (look at how the dam at skull's crossing works to see what I mean). Thassilonian ruins are enchanted in ways that people don't understand any more. Also, nobody (except maybe the PCs) believes Quink when he says the Old Light was actually a weapon.

If you decide to make Brodert Quink turn evil then you probably need to create another Thassilonian "expert" for the party to consult.

I think instead I would have "Pillbug" Podiker show an interest and it turns out he has a contact somewhere that wants to pay a lot for it. Possibly this could be Xanesha or Lucretia. Of course, after meeting him they plan on cutting a rune into his chest and killing him rather than paying.

You could work in that though that it turns out it is the Denizens of Leng who want the orb, because its power can boost the Leng Device. Karzoug, who doesn't know what the Orb is (or the Leng Device for that matter), has agreed to get it for them as a part of the deal to secure their help. However, the Orb could also be key in destroying the Leng Device and keeping Mhar off Golarion.

Blink should have protected him from half of the splash weapons. He has 85 HP, and with alchemist's fire doing 1d6 and holy water 2d4, it would take a long time (and a lot of vials) to kill him this way. If you assume two acid flasks and one holy water flask per round then you average 6 HP of damage per round, or about 15 rounds of combat.

If M was getting ranged to death and couldn't retaliate, I would have had him change shape into a wolf or a goblin (both medium) which would allow him to get out of line-of-sight of the doorway. The party would have to move right to the doorway to hit him and this would give him the chance to attack again.

M is not really meant to win here but he can do a lot of damage if he has the opportunity to full-attack.

One thing you could do would be to give the goblin a contact in Sandpoint who already knows him. Someone who would be able to see past the green skin to see the person underneath. Perhaps Father Zantus (which particularly works if the goblin character converted to the faith of Desna). That way he already has someone to "vouch" for him.

Add a hat of disguise to the party treasure pretty early. One of the Thistletop Goblins could have been using it to scout around Sandpoint (I would use Chuffy from the free "We Be Goblins" module).

I still prefer the idea of making him a kobold instead. Kobolds may not get as much DEX but they get natural armor to make up for it.


One thing though is that the ghouls are not killing at random. They are organized and specifically looking for greedy people. Attacks on random farms probably wouldn't do this, though it could be useful as a distraction. The Hambley farm was targeted specifically.

The Pauper's Graves is close enough to the lost coast road that ghouls operating from there could strike at caravans coming down the Lost Coast Road. There would definitely be greedy souls amongst such a group.

Maybe a ferryman who is known to overcharge for his services could get attacked on the Turandarok River.

Suichimo wrote:
The price of the item is 25,000. 25,000 minus 10,650 equals 14,350. Therefore, the price for Fly 1/day, +5 Max Dex, and -15% ASF is 14,350.

You are using the d20pfsrd price here, which according to the sidebar has been "adjusted" according to the thoughts of the people on the website. However their calculations do not include the base cost of the armor (you can tell this by looking at the crafting cost which is exactly half of the retail price - if it included the base armor it would be more). For this reason I believe that their calculations are wrong.

I would recommend looking at the entry under the Archives of Nethys, which has a direct copy of the original printed material. There the price is 28,650 gp. Looking at the crafting cost shows that it includes 1,650 for the full plate, which is correct.


Crozekiel wrote:
+1 Peet. I think you summed up my thoughts perfectly... (although, doesn't mithral drop ACP by 3, not 2, so you actually run into 0 ACP with the full plate version as well?)

The reason is that the -3 ACP benefit of Mithral armor includes the -1 benefit from having a suit of masterwork armor.

All magic armor starts as masterwork armor. So Celestial armor already includes this -1, and you cannot get that benefit twice.


Ask yourself: how does adding Iozif Kaijitsu advance the story?

If he is to be found in Magnimar, will he be an ally against the party's enemies? Will he be working with their enemies? Will he be an unrelated side enemy? Or strictly a red herring? Will he be a neutral party that may become a useful contact later?

So far your descriptions make it seem like this will be a side quest with no actual contribution to the overall plot. That's fine, but if so then you probably shouldn't make too big a deal about it, or you threaten to derail the actual story.

By the time that the party gets to Magnimar the Nualia & Kaijitsu storylines are over unless any of the people involved escaped.

These are decent ideas.

Askar: where do I find information on this "Kanker" character? Is this from a different module?

The idea that they get info from Zerren works because there can be a pause before Maester Grump shows up with news about Hambley farm.

I like the ghoul horse idea. Would a ghoul horse's hooves cause paralysis? Maybe ghoul dogs would work too.

I don't think I would have ghouls attack Sandpoint directly unless the party fails to figure out what the Misgivings is or refuses to go there. Then I would have a few attacks culminating with a ghoul assault on Scarnetti Manor. Though the party would rescue Titus, after finding a note addressed to a party member Titus would probably accuse them of orchestrating the whole thing. :)

With the players that I have, if a cleric showed up to deal with the problem, the party would probably try to help him, so rather than deal with figuring that out I think I would skip that one. It would have to happen when the players weren't around, and they would hear about it afterward.


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OK, I'm going to chime in here with a few things. I am mostly in the camp of "No, this shouldn't work" but I agree that mechanically a GM could allow it and follow certain rules to do so.

For the record there are two On-Line listings for Celestial Full Plate:

Archives of Nethys Version
D20PFSRD Version

The Archives of Nethys version is a straight reprint of the original 3.5 material in the original module it appeared in. The D20pfsrd version has been "corrected" but frankly since the d20pfsrd entry doesn't even factor in the cost of the original armor I am going to use the AoN version as correct.

Aelryinth wrote:
MM, The Celestial enchantment modifies existing already crafted Mithral Plate.

First of all, I want to clarify that Clestial Plate is not already Mithral armor. We can tell this because of the relationship between crafting cost and retail price.

Magical Armor and Weapons operate under the principle that you must start with a piece of masterwork equipment (for which you must pay full price) and then apply enchantments to it. When crafting the item the cost for the enchantments is halved but the price for the base piece of gear is the same. If armor is mithral then the cost of mithral is a part of the base price, not the enchantment.

Masterwork Full Plate costs 1,650 gp.
Mithral Full Plate costs 10,500 gp.

With the original price of 28,650 gp, if the armor was made with steel armor the cost of the enchantment would be 27,000 (i.e. 28,650 - 1,650). This price would be halved for crafting, so the cost to craft the item would be 13,500 plus the base price of 1,650, for a total of 15,150 gp.

Were the item already mithral, the enchanting cost would be 28,650 - 10,500 = 18,150 gp. So the crafting cost to enchant Mithral Plate with this would be 9,075, and adding the base cost of 10,500 the total cost to craft the item would be 19,575 gp.

Looking in the AoN entry we see that the crafting cost is 15,150 gp, so the first formula is correct; Celestial Plate is crafted from ordinary steel masterwork plate.

As such it ought to be possible to craft celestial armor from another material, unless:
* The "celestial" enchantment only works on armor of a specific material, OR
* The "celestial" enchantment transmutes the armor into some kind of new material, nullifying any previous material properties.

At no point does the item entry actually explain how the enchantment works, so a GM who wished to deny the benefits of mithral celestial armor to a player could invoke one of these justifications. The second one seems logical since celestial armor is described as "bright silver" which certainly implies that the material has been transmuted in the enchantment process.

However, this by no means prevents a GM from allowing this armor to be made.

So what benefits would this grant? Let's look at the actual bonuses provided.

Regular Full Plate: Max Dex +1, ACP -6, Arcane Failure 35%.
Masterwork Full Plate: Max Dex +1, ACP -5, Arcane Failure 35%.
Mithral Full Plate: Max Dex +3, ACP -3, Arcane Failure 25%.
Celestial Full Plate: Max Dex +6, ACP -3, Arcane Failure 20%.

Since we use masterwork armor as a base for both mithral and magic armor, we see that:

Mithral Improves: Max Dex by 2, ACP by 2, Arcane Failure by 10%
Celestial Improves: Max Dex by 5, ACP by 2, Arcane Failure by 15%

So a Mithral Celestial Full Plate (assuming properties stack) would be:
Max Dex +8, ACP -1, Arcane Failure 10%.

As to whether the armor counts as light or medium, this is up to the GM as we are not shown how the celestial enchantment actually works. It could be read as turning the armor into medium, no matter what other properties there are (which is strictly RAW); or the GM could interpret it as making the armor one step lighter.

Game Balance:

From a balance perspective, this does present a problem, because the max dex penalty is higher than that of a mithral chain shirt, so a rogue could wear this, be able to move at full speed, and would suffer a -1 to his attacks due to not being proficient with medium armor. That -1 to attacks is balanced out by a net +5 in base armor bonus and an increase in Max Dex by +2, allowing for a net +7 to AC over what would normally be possible for a rogue.

Likewise a Wizard would also likely take such a piece of equipment too. It is cheaper than bracers of armor +8 and does a lot more. You could eat the 10% arcane failure, or you could take the arcane armor training feat since this will count as light armor.

There is a similar problem if we allow mithral to apply to regular Celestial Armor. In such a case the Max Dex goes to 10, the ACP to 0, and the arcane failure chance to 5%. Once again this looks like a downright amazing item for rogue-like characters and arcane full casters, and nearly eliminates any penalty to wearing such an item.

These balance issues would make me rule against such a combo in my games.

As a GM I don't want my players to look for loopholes to figure out how they can get around not having another classes' class features (like using armor). I want them to figure out ways that they can operate so they don't need them.

YMMV. But there are very strong reasons why this should not be allowed in most games.


Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
I think you're a bit confused as to what a Divine Focus is and what its relationship is with somatic components. The two aren't mutually exclusive; that is, if you have one, you don't need the other, which you seem to think is the case.

No, let me make myself clear.

I have read elsewhere that in the process of casting a spell, if the spell requires a focus or a material component, then that component may be held in the hand that performs the somatic component. So in the case of a spell that requires a holy symbol, you do not need to hold the symbol in one hand and make gestures with the other. Instead, you wave the symbol around and that comprises the somatic component.

It's not that you need one or the other; it's that you can do one WITH the other. You can make gestures WITH the focus instead of your hand, which is not a free hand as it is holding something.

To require otherwise would mean that casting a spell without a focus or materials requires only one hand, whereas casting a spell with material components or foci effectively requires two. That would turn Eschew Materials from a mediocre feat to an awesome one. It would also mean iconic wizards would have to drop their staff on the ground any time they cast a spell with a material component. It's pretty clear that the material component/foci rules are not meant to require this much bookkeeping, nor is casting a spell ever supposed to require more than one hand.

So if an object counts as a divine focus, the hand holding it CAN normally also be used to perform the gestures for the spell, if such is required.

Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
All I'm saying is that the reliquary shield only serves as a Holy Symbol for the purposes of Channeling and the Divine Focus required for casting a spell; it still restricts your ability to use that hand for other purposes, such as fulfilling somatic components.

Is there a source for this, or is this just your opinion? Does it say anywhere that the object only counts as a divine focus in some respects and not others?

Wearing an ordinary holy symbol on a string around your neck also fulfills the requirement for the purpose of channeling and spellcasting, and only costs 1gp. Preparing a focus for a spell is a free action. So frankly making a shield into a divine focus doesn't seem to achieve any mechanical benefit whatsoever under your interpretation. In my mind, adding this property to the item should really do something.

There is a magic item from INNER SEA GODS called the Inheritor's Gauntlet. It allows the user (if he is a follower of Iomedae) to use the longsword held in that hand as a holy symbol. The intent here is pretty clear that this is meant to allow a Paladin of Iomedae (or a cleric for that matter) to cast spells with the hand though still holding the longsword.

Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
In other words, a Heavy Shield won't work for what you're trying to do; get a Light Shield and it solves your problems.

If I cant use a heavy shield that counts as a divine focus to gesture, I don't see why I could use a light shield that counts as a divine focus to gesture.

Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
If (the spell) doesn't require a Divine Focus, adding it to casting that spell won't change anything about the spell, assuming that adding those subjects to a spell is possible, which many would say is not, and even if it is, it does nothing.

This is normally what I would figure. However, if you can use another item like a weapon or a shield as a holy symbol, then it actually becomes easier to cast a spell that requires a divine focus than one that doesn't, because if I can use my longsword as a focus (as with the Inheritor's gauntlet) then I don't have to sheathe it to cast a spell that requires a divine focus, but I would to cast a spell that doesn't. That just seems weird.

Darksol the Painbringer wrote:


As for the whole "gold cost" for a Divine Focus, I reference this text:

Casting a Spell wrote:
...Unless these components are elaborate, preparing them is a free action.

Yeah, I have to go with Artanthos on that one. How expensive something is has nothing to do with how elaborate something is. Something can be elaborate but cheap, or expensive but simple. If they wanted to refer to the cost of the item they would have simply said "expensive" and probably would have added an actual cost to the rule (like the material components worth less than 1 gp rule).

I could totally see a gnome craftsman making a holy symbol of Brigh that was a clockwork device you have to wind up... but normally a holy symbol will never be considered "elaborate."

Imbicatus wrote:
The gladiators also isn't PFS legal, as it relies on Performance combat, which isn't legal either.

Yes, good catch.

Though without performance combat in the game it is kinda hard to see why anyone would want that archetype.

As for a weapon, may I suggest a longspear.

You don't want to actually attack with it. Instead you want to use the Aid Another action to try to help Pumpkin the Tiger score hits. Since a longspear is a reach weapon you can stand behind pumpkin while using it. Your chance to hit will be pretty bad, but you only have to hit an AC 10 to use aid another, and this will grant Pumpkin either a +2 on his next to-hit roll or a +2 to his AC (your choice).

The problem with both acid splash and any ranged weapon is that once your enemies are in melee with your friends you will not only get a -4 penalty to hit because they are in melee but you will almost always also get a -4 to hit because they have cover (provided by your friend who is in the way). The sorcerer in my party tries to use acid splash a lot but almost never hits.

Because the crossbow can hit targets a long way away it is worth getting. The range of acid splash is so short that most of the time that an enemy is in range he is also in melee with someone in your party.

If you want a cantrip to attack with I suggest daze. Though it only works on humanoids, it is a pretty effective save or suck at low levels, assuming your save DC is decent. And you don't need to roll to hit.

BTW a masterwork backpack is a waste for a low STR character trying to keep to a light load. It increases your effective STR by 1 but it weighs 4 pounds instead of 2, which eliminates most of the advantage for using it. You want to give the masterwork backpack to the half-orc fighter with 18 STR. It does way more for him. Then get him to carry your stuff.


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Disrupt Undead is a cantrip, so you can use it over and over again.

If you could heal with it you would never need out-of-combat healing any more; a 1st level wizard could heal your entire 20th level party back to full given enough time.

Step 1: Put ranks in Use Magic Device
Step 2: Buy scroll or wand of Gravity Bow
Step 3: Profit!

If by "mutagen Warrior" you mean "mutation warrior" you should be aware that the mutation warrior is not legal for PFS:

Additional Resources wrote:

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Advanced Class Guide

All playtest versions of the ten new base classes from this book are no longer legal for play as of 8/14/14. Anyone playing the playtest version of one of the ten new base classes must have updated his or her character as of 8/14/14. Updating your character means adjusting only the things that have changed, but not rebuilding the character.

Archetypes: all archetypes on pages 75–133 are legal for play, except forgepriest, hex channeler, musketeer, mutation warrior, packmaster, primal companion hunter, primalist, spirit summoner, and steel hound.
Classes: All ten base classes are legal for play. Some classes are modified as follows:

Arcanist: The Item Crafting bonus feat is not legal for play.
Brawler: To utilize the Martial Flexibility class feature, the player must have the source book of the combat feat she wishes to utilize.
Shaman: Fetish hex replaces Craft Wondorous Item with Spell Focus. Shamans with the Nature spirit receive animal growth as a bonus spell at 10th level instead of awaken.
Skald: Skalds receive Extra Performance at 1st level instead of Scribe Scroll.
Warpriest: To utilize a blessing, a character must be a worshiper of the listed deity.

Equipment: all equipment and magic items on pages 202–237 are legal for play, except dust knuckles, false face, rod of abrupt hexes, and rod of voracious hexes.
Feats: all feats on pages 137–159 are legal for play, except Animal Soul, Divine Protection, Evolved Companion, and Spirited Gift.
Orders: The Order of the Beast is not legal for play.
Racial Favored Class Options: all racial favored class options on pages 69–71 are legal for play.
Spells: all spells on pages 162–199 are legal for play.

It sounds like the character is already generated and has risen to 3rd level. So he won't be able to retool anything like archetypes or traits at this point.

If this is the case you should speak to your local VC about it, explaining that you think that you may have violated the rules. He should be able to figure things out for you.

However, as I said, if your alignment changed prior to 2nd level this is not a problem. Since it doesn't seem to be a problem for any other features of your character, if I was your VC I probably would rule that your alignment changed to neutral and thus was playable all along.

The first step is to speak to your GM. If you think these arguments are relevant then direct him to read the thread.

I would expect that most GMs will say that this is not possible.

If I was the GM I would say that this is not possible.

If I was a player I would not expect my GM to permit such a thing.

The reason is that while it does not directly violate the stacking rules, it violates their principle, which is that you cannot duplicate an effect to double that effect. Specific circumstances that circumvent this should be directly spelled out, and if they are not then one should not assume that stacking is allowed.

In this case it seems that the advantage from Celestial mimics the advantage gained from mithral, only it is even better. I don`t think it was ever intended that this advantage would be combinable with the mithral benefits. A big part of the problem here is that the item dates from 3.5 and has not been clarified since then. The entry in CRB about celestial armor is basically copied from 3.5.

Hi, Darksol. Thanks for trying to answer this. However, it seems like you contradict yourself here.

Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
1. I believe in cases where you need to provide a divine focus, does the shield fulfill. It does not cover the somatic component (which is the gesturing), meaning you would have to still need the free hand.

OK, so here you say you need a separate hand.

Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
The divine focus would have to be brought out (if it has a high enough gold cost, a move action may be required) in order to be utilized for a given spell, but it can be held in the same free hand and still be used to cast spells.

Now here you say you can use the same hand that holds a divine focus to perform the gesturing for a spell.

If the shield counts as a divine focus, then why can't it be used this way? Is there anything in the description of the item (or elsewhere) that clarifies this?

Note that a divine focus tattoo costs only 100 gp and gets someone around the problem of having to "pull out" one's divine focus. So there is a non-magical way to get around the action economy issue of having to draw a divine focus. So I have a hard time understanding what the benefit of having a shield classified as a divine focus is, if not for the purpose of allowing it to be used to make gestures for spells.

BTW what does the gold cost of a divine focus have to do with how it is used? I really don't understand that.

Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
2. I would assume so, since for spells that use normal foci and/or materials, the single hand is all that's needed, subtracting the divine focus on-hand doesn't change the factor that you need to have a free hand to gesture with, which can be that free hand that otherwise possessed a divine focus.

I'm not sure you understand my question.

If the spell does not require a divine focus as a component, and I "choose" to add that component to the spell if I am a divine caster? If the answer is no then I would have to drop my divine focus when casting the spell; otherwise my hand would he holding an object not used in the spell and could not then be used for gesturing.


From the PRD:

PRD wrote:


A barbarian who becomes lawful loses the ability to rage and cannot gain more levels as a barbarian. She retains all other benefits of the class.

Barbarian Class

PRD wrote:


A monk who becomes nonlawful cannot gain new levels as a monk but retains all monk abilities.

Monk Class

So you cannot gain levels in either class when you are not the right alignment.

Note though that a monk that becomes non-lawful keeps all his monk abilities; he just can't gain more monk levels. So if you only wanted the single level in Monk, you could become neutral and then take barbarian levels without losing your monk abilities.

There is also an Aasimar sub-race that can take monk levels when neutral good. This costs a trait I think.


Chopper's Isle in Wayfinder #7 is one that I am about to run for my guys that are between Burnt Offerings and the Skinsaw Murders. They are level 4 and the mini-module is for level 3, but my guys only need a small boost before they get to 5th level.

Dawn of the Scarlet Sun is a free module set in Magnimar. The only problem with it is that it is also a murder mystery and this might mix up the plot somewhat.

Feast of Ravenmoor is also connected to Magnimar (though it is not a free module). It is for 3rd level characters but probably could be adjusted for 4th level.


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Use these: gs/ThassilonRunes.jpg.html

(From further up in the thread)

In the Skinsaw Murders I like the idea of the mounting threat of ghouls roaming the countryside. But in the actual adventure there is really only one encounter with the ghouls, and this is at Hambley's farm. There are a few more ghouls in the Misgivings, but they feel kind of like an afterthought.

Has anyone done any more encounters with ghouls, that might fit in between the farm and the sanatorium? Or perhaps after the farm but before Misgivings?


I like the idea that the Goblin PC will be in prison and ends up "proving himself" to the town when he escapes during the Swallowtail festival. However, many people in town may still suspect he is a spy.

If you are going ahead with that idea though, I would recommend having the player come up with some kind of physical difference (like a big white birthmark on his face) that lets the people of Sandpoint tell the difference between him and the 'bad' goblins. Also, this may have been a part of why he was not accepted in Goblin society to begin with.

Fromper wrote:
I'm with NobodysHome on this one. My group had fun "having visions" and getting the history of the house and family, even if there was no negative impact.

Sure... I can see how this would work. But I do want the players to interact with things in the house; they shouldn't just be tourists.

Fromper wrote:
Of course, they also never figured out that the paladin is immune or boosts the saves of the others, and I decided not to give them any hints about that. Having them fail a few saves makes things more fun. *evil grin*

This is a neat idea. I may have the paladin character roll saves anyway (and just never tell him that he failed a save) and not tell him it's a fear effect.

NobodysHome wrote:
Yeah, I'll just reiterate: Just because she's immune doesn't mean she isn't "affected".

That was a great story, NH. And that does clear up one thing... I wasn't sure if the immunity would prevent "seeing" the haunt.

I may add some monsters to the house anyway, on account of the encounters will mostly go perception-initiative-will save-channel energy, repeat.

To clear something up though... if a haunt is directed at a specific person, then the other characters don't even see it, right? In that case, do the other players still get a chance to notice that something is up before the haunt goes off? Or do they not have any chance to intervene until they see the haunted character go nuts?

Also, can anyone give me examples of haunts with a secondary affect that will work on the Paladin?


Is there a way to do a decent archer build as a cleric or oracle? It doesn't have to be super-optimal, but has to keep up.


Sawtooth Sabre will allow DEX to damage, but does not allow weapon finesse. So basically you are in the same boat as with any other slashing weapon here except the penalty for TWF is less - you still want STR for the to-hit chance.

I think the Dervish Dance thing was that the other hand has to be empty - no shield, no weapon. So they were willing to give DEX to damage for that feat because you are limiting your character in other ways. Having an empty off-hand is bad for almost every class - except magus, of course.


If I was your GM in a home game I would probably allow this with the attack penalty applying to your feint check. Check with your GM.

But in a PFS game this will not work.


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