Pax Veritas's page

The original D&D was itself micro-light. All one needed were the six character attributes and the game could be played. Gygax looked at the person/elf/dwarf/etc. holistically and tried to describe what the six main attributes were, and which one would be prime. That said, back in the day, not much mattered execept your six attributes and your hp/hd. From that, the entire game could be played... the rest was just imagination/inspiration.

I am ashamed to say that I have never heard of Robert Bly. What would be a good starting point for his works?

** spoiler omitted **

Iron John: A Book About Men (Paperback)

When sex and violence are done right, they are done rarely, and they balance against thier implications and purposes. Humanity laughs because of incongruency, and sex/violence in stories/rpg is perfect for maximum intensity so long as the orchestra isn't "blowing" double-forte all night long.

Adult themes become more artistic and tactfully done when they are purposeful and tastefully done. Otherwise, adult themes become gratuitous and appear as shallow crowd-pleasers that leave a "bad-taste" in the audience's mouth instead.

Inuendo is fun regularly, but serious adult themes should contain a story purpose, or a story outcome to be worth including. Otherwise, a tactful GM will just say, "... and we know the rest," and move on.

Even if the players want it more intense, don't give it to them. Like sex, stories good should have an ascending series of build-ups prior to the "climax."

The garbage books that describe unseen bedroom servant spells or magic dildos +5, are unnecessary. They're true garbage.

On one final personal note, I'm not sure there is any descriptive or story value in the depiction of the more horrible sexual acts of violance on women nor men. In fact, if a campaign has degenerated this far, its probably incapable of ever recovering, and the end is near. That is, like an orchestra's loudest blast, once the GM has chosen to "blow his wad" he will never recover the story. Good gaming, like good drama, is something that is more akin to the tea kettle that wants to boil and whistle, but never does. Suspense comes from this, and there is sometimes more intensity in a whisper or what is not said than things that are explicit.

My 2 token cp on that subject...

I haven't read through this thread - but the OP's statement sums it up. Not even sure who the hell cares about ranking classes - its like a million kids suddenly forgot that the game is collaborative and imaginative, not competitive.

But anyhow - thanks for sharing your opinion. Its like... instead of being somebody's wing man and having fun on the town with the ladies.... some would rather just stay home and analyze their own relative sizes... for what purpose, I don't know.

After i read this thread, if I'm mistaken, I'll apologize... but based on the OP's comment, I say +1. Its not the tier of the PC that matters is the magic you make with it :p

Hi Treantmonk,
I promised to have a look at your work and stop back to reply. I'd first like to say that you have a talent for cutting through the data horizontally, and pointing out comparisons that would take some of us a few months or a year to fully realize. For that aspect primarily I see these essays of good value. My only critique, although the FAQs already addresses the question of the tone of this work, I'd like to challenge you to consider how you could still have fun with sarcasm without ostensibly 'teaching' newer generations to make a vaue-judgment about character power. That is, is there a way to be clear that your instruments are designed to provide clarity around optimization, yet not deliver a value judgement about those who role play characters in game campaigns where power isn't a concern. As we've discussed before, we both know the game is played quite viably with or without optimization. As a humble suggestion, your documents might also reach a broader audience if the concept of optimization was seen as insightful for those who choose to play 'nerfed healing wizards with an INT of 12' or whatever the non-powerful suite of the day might be. I see your documents of value, and am not suggesting changes for the sake of criticism, but rather to make them more accessible to the full breadth of the hobby, and to 'teach' or provide insight to more without necessarily conveying negativity around non-optimized characters or characters with designed/intended disadvantages. I would welcome your thoughts on this, and do not seek any arguments so much as respond as promised to say that overall the documents are insightful. Thank you.
-Pax

I would like to see this in Pathfinder RPG or v.3.5 as well.

Pax Veritas wrote:

Though the first two are dead, I'll bring the first three's immortal philosophies bound in print, and mayhaps a dvd player for the last one's first trilogy. If we're beating drums in a sweat lodge we would be walking their path. Can you guess their names?

Robert Bly...

Joseph Cambell...
Carl Jung...

I'm not coming up with anything for George other than CB's guess. If so, I'd view Jung as kind of the John the Baptist in the group.

A+ professors! Well done.

Starting with Jung, one can trace Man and His Symbols to Campbell's Hero of a Thousand Faces, then on through Bly's Iron John seen through the eyes of the contemporary space opera, Star Wars, from Lucas.

No self-respecting sweat lodge, or male spirituality group, would be complete without the presence of these four imho. We have all four to thank for much of what has been "best" about in fantasy roleplaying and this genre's greatest stories. And much of this explains the expression of man-love for Jason, at least mythically, as he has delivered, in some quasi-promethian sense, a new fire to gamer-kind. Its possible that Jason is the Christ-like figure, sent by the god, Mona, who brought to us a new covenant in gaming. This epic struggle against the pharisees of the coast is truly a symbolic story for anyone who believes that in every revolution there is one man with a vision.

All of this is the story of a new generation of gamers finding their own paths to becomming Jedi, like their father before them. This has been a hero's quest for sure. In our humble way, we have taken the ring to the mountain by creating a new iteration of v.3.5 under the OGL that continues our traditions and thrives for 3PPs, and we have also survivied the darkness of the Empire's attempt at a monopolistic GSL.

So, no matter what form it takes. This was an epic journey, and yes, it is some kind of love we share as a Pathfinder RPG community.

Though the first two are dead, I'll bring the first three's immortal philosophies bound in print, and mayhaps a dvd player for the last one's first trilogy. If we're beating drums in a sweat lodge we would be walking their path. Can you guess their names?

Funny - this came up in-game just this past Monday.
I don't see any problem casting while prone. Now, having been recently knocked prone in combat might be worth a nominal caster check/concentration, but should generally work without problem...

Oh Pax, you dualist you! Someday, you should join my Man Spirituality group... ;)

May I bring four of my friends?

I can't wait until 5e rolls around. Bill Slavicsek is gonna have a lot to answer for it they try to promote another electronic product. All he did during the 4e launch panels was keep promising the gaming board software wouldn't turn into another 3rd edition's E-Tools. Well, each year they lay off more and more people and grow quieter and quieter on all DDI fronts.

I remember those events just as you've described them SirUrza. Good point.

I won't say its a man love.

I will say there is a savior-like quality to Jason, having been the right person at the right place at the right time - AND delivering the right things, the right way.

Perhaps it was fate/destiny or luck chance... either way, my appreciation is more a spiritual one than a man one, but appreciation nonetheless.

Thank you Jason.
Keep up the great work!

-Pax!

*grins*

You haven't see the last of those 'old companies'.

*smiles*

Angry Fanboy wrote:

Pathfinder is not D&D!

Of course not. It's the New and Improved D&D...

Plus, it's name is better.
:D

Copy that!

Right on.

I would imagine this would do much to make those with money the most powerful of people, where as bloodlines, dynasties, etc. used to be the fantasy norm. I'm okay running a high magic campaign, but more often than not, its the setting details that restrict player groups from having either the materials or knowledge they need.

I'm not sure that I ever make the "process" of making an item as any guarantee that the item can actually be made. Responding to the OP's inquiry, there are other ways to effectively control the amount and kind of magic items being created. If the expectations of the setting, the context of the game area are believable, than the infrequency of availability to do so work well. Also, in addition to raising prices, you can make mishap frequency slightly greater if the PC is rushed. I try to keep the players so busy, that down-time is actually a luxury!

Hope that helps.
-Pax

Klaus - I meant keep your current campaign, PC backgrounds, inter-relationships etc., but move to Pathfinder RPG rules. There isn't anything unusual about continuing to us your own world and characters. Many of us run a homebrew world, even though we like Golarion.

This started back in 1983 and happened ever since....

>> Whenever the name of a major devil such as Asmodeus is spoken I ask the PC to drop whatever she is doing and roll the percentile dice. 01% means Asmodeus actually hears his name spoken and arrives to slay the PC. It does not matter whether it is spoken above board, or in-game...the roll is still made and I cannot help myself.

This started back when true names mattered and were ineffable or dangerous to say aloud. It is serious business to speak their names.

Welcome to the messageboards, Klaus van der Kroft. Hope you stay a while and download the free 3.5 to Pathfinder conversion guide from PAIZO to help you.

Its worth saying, that Pathfinder RPG continues the best of the world's oldest rpg and makes classes more robust, streamlines mechanics, and also comes from a fantastic company. Glad you've found the boards infomative. Hope you stay a long time.

This is a great time to get into 3.5 and Pathfinder. It wouldn't take long for your group to craft fresh characters for Pathfinder RPG. Its a good learning experience to make up, say, 5th level characters. The chapters in Pathfinder RPG on character creation, races, and classes should be all you really need. Just grab a clean PFRPG character sheet and go. Let us know if you encounter any specific problems.

4e from wotc was designed to NOT be backward compatible by design - something that no other system can really address for you. Many have continued v.3.5/d20/Pathfinder RPG for this very reason, because much of the 4e aspects don't translate backward. Of course - its your game, add what you like, but I think you'll find that all the classes have something interesting at all levels to make your Pathfinder RPG game fun and also use your existing library of v.3.5 materials.

PATHFINDER RPG NEEDS TO BREAK THROUGH THE GOOFINESS OF PrCs.

Issue: They're generally wonky, goofy, and much unused.

Background: We've always had them. GMs would give PCs extra powers/ability/prestige when they did something contextually in-the-fabric-of-the-campaign. (i.e. +2 to negotiation, +6 tracking within home town, magic power of extra cantrips or whatnot, bonus feat related to previous heroics). This goes as far back as I can remember... OD&D, 1e, 2e, 3e, etc.

PrC Issue: They're really just illustrations for a GM to learn about structuring progressive power enchantments + flavorful detail (useful). The requirements are wonky, especially if unrelated to the context of the GM's game. Players wish to trade line-item feats anyhow, books seem to retype those same *next level casting ability charts over and over and over again. Past PrC weren't substantive, or really COMPROMISED the class character concepts, with players feeling like they traded more for less or lost out on developing in the core or base class.

Suggestion: Mr. Gobachev, Tear Down This Wall.
Re-vamp this system into an a-la-carte book for good GMs to adjudicate the "builds" of PrCs in their home campaigns. Do not exactly quantify the requirements and level enchantments, but instead provide them as level-categorized lists by level of intensity/power. In this way, GMs can easily "whip up" a prestige class, instead of labour over it.

Advantage to PAIZO: Chance to do something better than v.3.5 while still being consistent with it. Goodness knows I already have 800 PrCs listed in my v.3.5/d20 collection, and more of this has little interest to many gamers I know. The chance to innovate while maintaining backward-compatibility could be a BIG hit. I don't claim to have the detail, that's for the esteemed designers to complete.

Use Case: Joey is a GM who loves the idea of Prestige Classes but disliked the wonky/goofy/laborious system. Joey can run his PCs up to 6th or 9th level, and place each on a "specialized-prestige-track". This track would run concurrent with their existing Pathfinder RPG class. Because Jason Bulmahn made all the classes interesting at all levels 1-20 in Pathfinder RPG, the idea of prestige is still beneficial, but less of a "class change" and more of a concurrent "prestige track." Joey decides that Moluvia the Wizard has dealt with the Cult of Green Death frequently enough in-game story context, that Joey provides Moluvia:
>Bonus cantrip of "Frightening Noise" because Moluvia has learned the art of haunting distractions
>Immunity to Fear because Moluvia is not afraid in the face of death
>+2 to Skill Check for Perception because Moluvia has seen both the living and the incorporeal enough to spot spectres well

And thats maybe the base "kit".

Joey looks in his Pathfinder RPG Gamemastery Prestige Book I, and sees the suggested point value for a prestige progression is as follows:
>L1 Tntry Prestige Track - 3+1 per prime attribute bonus (i.e. Wis for clerics, INT for Mage etc.)
>L2-4 Tier II Prestige Track: 1 + 1 per bonus
>L5-7 Tier III Prestige Track: 2 + 1 per bonus
>L8-12 Tier IV Prestige Track: 3 + 1 per bonus
>L13+: Tier V Prestige Track: 1 selection from Tier V Prestige List.

I envision such a book containing all the PAIZO goodness of skills, feats, 1/2 feats, racial specialities, prestige focus specialties, powers su/ex/etc., and extra abilities such as DR, SR etc. Basically everything we had in v.3.5 that was OGL for such a thing, but the application of each becomes TREMENDOUSLY EASIER and more relevant to the GM's actual campaign story or Pathfinder RPG Adventure Path.

Thank you for indulging me in this opinion and suggestion.
-Pax

The DM is the rules.

The DM does not need any rules.

Never tell the DM he/she doesn't need any rules! lol

The magic of a good game is instantly known, and rarely is its greatness attributed to discussions about rules. A good DM has a "sense" of his/her world, and does indeed seek internal consistency within it, except of course for things that are exceptions to the rules.

Life is like this.

So too with fantasy.

The decade of players "calling out" the DM and rules has ended. Most players and GMs can wield the Pathfinder RPG Core rulebook easily enough. The rest should be left to the imagination...

Isn't the game about imagination any more?

The DM never has, nor never will, be beholden to the rules, nor a victim to them. Good DMs will, however, not abuse this power, nor ruin the players sense of enjoyment. This is where the "artform" of good DMing happens. In the end, we all know that rules are but smoke and mirrors to the magic of one's own imagination!

-Pax

Classic Tropes:
>The witch turns prince into frog
>The princess is in a deep 100 year slumber
>The Hags hut walks on its own legs
>The Soulgrinder's chamber prevents souls from departing to meet their deity on the final road.
>The people of the town do not age
>The undead pirate ships appear under a full moon
>The sword talks and has ambitions of its own

Its can be fun to described these with rules. In some cases rules have already been drawn up for use. Yet unless there is any real reason for these rules, none need to be codefied. Even in cases where it matters, a good DM can adjudicate close approximations of needed items such as a saving throw number, DR or SR number if needed.

Its helpful to think along game rule lines to adjudicate conflict, but not necessary. And, as players, you should go on believing that rules matter. Good DMs know otherwise, and like a good magician should never reveal their secrets.

No wonder you think its sucky for a DM to say, "I just made it up on a lark." That DM deflated the challenge you thought was mighty and important with an unnecessary reveal. Similarly, good DMs know when their players enjoy encounters made of crunchy, explainable bits. Likewise should revel, with the player, in these discussions post game or whatever! Enjoyment is subjective, but the precision of DM tool selection is best left to context, not some universal statement that DM's must do a, b, c. This sometimes may sound paradoxical and requires tollerance for the ambiguity of DM-Player context facilitation and know-how.

I thank you for indulging me to share this opinion.

Halflings are fine, because they're size Small. Small size characters still occupy a 5'x5' space and have a base 5' reach. Now, if that halfling were to be the subject of reduce person, he would be utterly boned because he would be unable to flank, as his space would be 2.5'x2.5' and his natural reach would be 0'.

Good. Then my halfling rogue player has been fine. Thanks. Sometimes, thread make me question the obvious, or doubt what is already known. Thanks.

A Man In Black wrote:

No, it doesn't work. There's no build that gives you a capable melee character who supplements their martial abilities with arcane magical ones in a level-appropriate way except at a very narrow level range specific to that build. And sitting on your thumb until (or worse, after) you hit that level range isn't very fun, and this is a game.

That depends on what you consider "level-appropriate" to be. For some of us, "level-appropriate" means working within the limitations available at your current level, rather than wanting all the benefits at once.

Sorry to come into this so late, but after reading only a few pages, I get the feeling some people out there would run screaming into the night if they had to function under a system like the old "basic" D&D, where there were only a few classes to choose from at all, the fighter/wizard-type character was called an 'elf' (and came with its own set of limitations), and clerics couldn't cast spells at all until second level.

Darrell - I hadn't quite realized just how many years have passed since the days of OD&D, but be assurred you're right that some would. However, many still enjoy OD&D. A world of "restrictions" weren't thought of as such early-on. The modern notion of "character-build" is what the world thinks of today as D&D, but was not always so. In its day, the description and character roleplay were focus, with rules in periphery, with little concern over them. In many ways, this still makes for a great game. Try running a game of D&D where you invite folks who have not played and tell them, "don't worry about the rules, just tell me what your character does." Back then, we shared not only our actions, but our thoughts, intentions, and with 1 minute combat rounds had a lot more dramatic dialogue before and during moments when the bbeg was killed.

The notion of quantifying everything to a science, and greater focus on the so-called balancing of everything has promted newer concers with the game unique to 3e and beyond. As one person points out, "waiting is unfun." Sure it is, and in our society of instant gratification we want it all now. Further, with the rules in the faces and duffle-bags of all the players now, not the just GM, there is heightened awareness of what "progression" the build will take. While many/most will say "of-course", I'll just point out that this is a relatively newer development. In the early years, PHB and other player resources did point out progressive abilities that made players excited, they were mostly class-illustrative powers, but not the kinds that were pre-eminantly viewed as important factors to survive combat or nerf/buff the class for success. They simply were cool descriptive powers to illustrate the progression of the classes abilities, adding much flavor and yet seeing scarce or occasional use.

When the game was played, it wasn't a series of power selections, or feats, or skills, or even class abilities. Really, it was about the exposition/hook, travel/adventure, problem solving, imaginative descriptions, personality and alignment interactions, story development, character development, progressive facilitation of PCs over the course of their lives - ultimately leading toward castles or guilds, then on to epic battles of world preservation. So, as someone who was there, and played OD&D, and had an "Elf" I would agree that by today's trends/standards you're probably right to say "run screaming." Yet, as we all know, new is different, but not necessarily better. Trends in large numbers are fickle, and the pendulum swings over the decades one way then back again. My point in this round-about way, is to generally agree with you, but perhaps not for absolute reasons. Sure, it sounds clunky or restrictive, but in many ways rules have become the new ball-and-chain of the imagination. Players imaginations are inherently free, but everywhere they are in chains.

Thanks for indulging me to share this opinion,
-Pax

Crazy clarifying question then...

What squares does a halfling rogue threaten then?

Somebody said Gish was in reference to Githyanki, and its a class that is both good at melee combat and spellcasting. Am i understanding this correctly. (Late to this party, getting caught up...)
Thanks.

There is some value to the modern idea that levels go far and beyond 20th. Yet, in my years, I've learned that good campaigns make it to at least 9th-13th. Some make it a bit higher. Its been my general experience that those who need the very highest levels aren't usually playing fully through the earlier levels, and their advancement is unusually fast. Its fine for folks to play to high levels, and to advance rapidly if desired but its just not something that is a concern to me. In years past, and editions past, the norm would be a cut-off after which nominal hp were earned along with some other easy token advancement beyond 20th. I don't perceive much value in detailed advancement past 20th, other than some simple system as has traditionally been used. About 16 years ago, I faught orcus, but was playing a dual-classed 40th level character. A humble cleric/something named Sigmus Mann used the 1st level Sanctuary spell in a novel way (probably 2nd edition d&d at the time). And, in truth, its not more of the same that should occupy the mechnic of building a 40th level character. (And memory is fading... it may have been 40/40 for 80 levels...) My point is that I don't recall suffering pain creating the character for the adventure. At the time it was a TSR module, most likely a Bloodstone related one, but we had "FUN" whipping up the 40th or 80th level character for the adventure. In sum, lets not demand higher levels to be as detailed as the first 20. PAIZO has done a near-perfect job with base classes up to 20th thus far, and a simple system, imho, to advance upward from there is all we really need. I respect differing views, but I forsee running high level adventures more often, if the details are kept (purposefully) streamlined beyond 20th. Thanks for indulging me in this opinion. - Pax

Whatever you do:

>Don't allow a ranged-touch specialist evoker with fire focus at your table armed with the Spell Compendium. Its simply wonky. The bloat of power there will be obvious and un-fun for the rest.

In short, I've removed Spell Compendium from play. (I used a story convention to do this, having the PCs travel to another world where those formulae of magic do not work.)

Oh yes. The cocatrice cooked up fine. Hope you both had a very happy thanksgiving! (along with everyone else following this thread).

Made my saving throw versus Tryptophan, and did not nap on Thanksgiving at all!

Nice to hear from you both. I think we should all work on a game project together (I'll contact you privately).

Take care!

P.s. They're still in Castle Blackmoor - fighting their way out. The payout will be very big in terms of xp, prestige, renown, and also the finding of an artifact fragment (hint hint). This season they are hopping to different TSR worlds as a course of nastalgia on my part, but also part of an grand adventure idea I have in mind to publish one day... (project anyone?)

Aaron Bitman wrote:

I remember a WotC free adventure, "The Ettin's Riddle," about a victim who was forcibly polymorphed into an Ettin. In Pathfinder RPG, this just can't happen.

Yes it can. I'm the DM, and I say it can. Seriously though, some of us are too tied to rules. If you've got a group whose suspension of disbelief is ruined by an edition-related rules change, you've got bigger problems than any ettin, polymorphed or not.

Zo

+1

Whole-hearted agreement.

when is the download available again? (Players are asking. Seem to really like the concept of these.)

Kakarasa wrote:

Zurai wrote:

Entering a square occupied by an unfriendly creature always provokes an AOO from that creature. It's the only way tiny and smaller creatures can get AOOs, actually.

I appreciate the reply, but where are you pulling his ruling from friend?

Pathfinder Reference Document wrote:

Tiny, Diminutive, and Fine Creatures: Very small creatures take up less than 1 square of space. This means that more than one such creature can fit into a single square. A Tiny creature typically occupies a space only 2-1/2 feet across, so four can fit into a single square. 25 Diminutive creatures or 100 Fine creatures can fit into a single square. Creatures that take up less than 1 square of space typically have a natural reach of 0 feet, meaning they can't reach into adjacent squares. They must enter an opponent's square to attack in melee. This provokes an attack of opportunity from the opponent. You can attack into your own square if you need to, so you can attack such creatures normally. Since they have no natural reach, they do not threaten the squares around them. You can move past them without provoking attacks of opportunity. They also can't flank an enemy.

Quote:

Let me ask this though, if I am the monk and I have a 5 foot effective reach, why would I enter the space of the cat when I can hit it from the space adjacent to it?

You wouldn't. The cat, on the other hand, would have to step into your space in order to attack you, which would provoke regardless of the type of movement used (even a 5' step).

Zurai - - - - - - Thank you. I think I've been giving away the store to the rogue halfling. I've actually accepted AOOs from my diminutive player for some time. Thanks for the refresher on this. O MY!

Hey Karkarasa -
Sounds a bit wonky to ask fighters to stand around and wait. I enjoy both narrativist play, as well as gamist and simulationist - so when I play with dungeon tiles, minis, line of sight indicators, combat tiers, etc., I really appreciate the sophistication of combat choices available in v.3.5 and Pathfinder RPG.

The best way I describe AOOs to newer players is using the verbiage, "when you leave a threatened square." Sounds like semantics, but it really helps them understand more quickly. For example:

>Banlar, Priest of Law, approaches the Ogre who threatens 10 feet around its space due to using a reach weapon such as a sharp spear. Banlar can enter the outer most square (a threatened one) safely without provoking an AOO. Banlar would likely then attack, or if this ends his turn he can just stay there without provoking an AOO.
>>If Banlar proceeds another 5' to hit the Ogre with his mace (not a reach weapon) he would provoke the AOO as he leaves a threatened square.
>>In cases of Pathfinder RPG, actions such as bullrush or grapple are handled very easily with CMB vs. CMD, and adjudicated based on feats such as (Improved Grapple, Improved Bullrush, etc. which would negate the AOO).

Finally, using the illustration (provided above in a previous post), you can see how the first square does not provoke, but leaving it to go to another threatened square does.

Also, I find that providing players with clarity on the purpose of the 5' step before, during, or after a full round action really helps overall understanding.

hope that helps...
-Pax

Stopping back in to say these have come a long way.

I am envisioning owning a set. I imagine having them printed as a card deck. Can anyone estimate two things for me?
> Have we settled on a uniform size; same size as a standard playing card?
> Approximately how many in total? I am trying to imagine the printing costs, or production cost if they were good cards with color backs to them (and would love to know if the longer spells will fit front to back, even if paraphrasing/bullets are needed to shorten?)

That's all for now...
Keep up the good work. This is an item I've thought about making for years, and still cannot find the time.

Gene - could you please do the Shade Knight from Dun of Dre. I looked at that mini again, and I would love to use it in a new way - something gene-style! I'm thinking of picking up four of them. Seems like it would be a cool challenge for a 12th level party. Something wicked cool. I like the translucent effect of the mini, and it hints of incorporeality -but I don't know anything about 4e and plan to keep it that way, so could you have a look and consider doing it for v.3.5/Pathfinder RPG. Thanks.

P.s. Yeah...... The Thoon Hulk released the latch to the treasure room, from whence an Armored Guulvorg charged out. It was ugly. Playtest of the Oracle - shortest playtest ever. lol. Man, the look on the groups faces was precious!

Important: As a community of Paizonians - call us fans, supporters, consumers, etc., its important to be self-regulating.

Ask not what Paizo can do for you, ask what you can do for PAIZO.

Funny, but true.

In MUSIC > We call it "sell-out" when a band like R.E.M took their underground sound and went mainstream on Monster. The art of the music is compromised by the public demand for mainstream washout (stuff that sounds like other stuff). The artists get pressured by producers to make stuff that sells, and consumers are asking for the same stuff because they're not artists, and can't "demand" innovation they have not heard. Its a viscious cycle that creates a mediocracy of music. Just listen to this past AMA Awards show, and see if you can tell anyone apart?

In LITERATURE/PRINT/GAMING MATERIALS > The folks at Paizo have been around the block. They understand how a company like the wotci would compromise the art, innovation, creativity by replacing it with stuff that they think kids want. The result is 4e, or any one of the type of compromises that COULD turn the good dark stories of Jacobs into mainstream splat. (I said "could".) This means as consumers, we must think about what we really love about PAIZO, and be requesting more of THAT. The consequences of just requesting the same stuff you've already seen CAN drive a company to the extreme middle, where innovation is replaced with Book of Rehash Volume II, Book of Rehash Volume III, etc.

Here's the thing: I respect all the posts in this thread. Psionics is kinda cool, and if anyone can do psionics right its probably Mona/Jacobs/Bulmahn et. al.

I also respect those who like the stuff I don't. I appreciate that we all enjoy different aspects of the game. Gamers are not all the same, they shouldn't be - we're generally bright creative independent minded folk. Yet, a decade of "consumerism" has altered some of our better senses (myself included). Let's have a look at what Paizo has been doing, consider their suggested direction, try to see how as a group of brilliant writers they don't WANT to produce Book of Unnecessary Things Volume IV, V, and VII. That is, .... unless we as cosumers leave them with no alternative. The reality is, when it says, "Its Your Game Now" on Pathfinder RPG materials - - - it means something. Lets think about, and be vocal about more than just "more of the same". Let's consider what is best for Pathfinder RPG and our community, without surrendering to a low common deominator of book writing. Wouldn't it be best if the Advanced Players Guide had most all the stuff you need/want?

Just some thoughts, and to be clear, I value everyone's views, even different from my own. Just had to get that out.... thanks for listening.

Hey, Michael Johnson 66, is there any way I can contact you? I love post-apocalyptic settings, as well as the Gamma World game.

Well 7-Zip didn't seem to work, anyone else?

Hey Cyd. IF using 7-zip, try right click, then select "extract here". That option should work for you.

Welcome to the PAIZO messageboards, figurehead88! Lilith will stop by with a plate of fresh backed cookies for you and your military friends. Glad to hear you're starting up a Pathfinder RPG game, have lots of fun! -Pax

Well that is easy to overcome, you go with the same + the item is considered to be for the purpose of enchanting.

A +1 keen long sword would overcome DR10/+2
a +1 keen, flaming burst, vorpal long sword would overcome DR40/+8 (and be someone I wouldn't want to screw with :) )

This intrigues me. Have you been using this system?

The point I tried to make - and I know many people will disagree with me on this point - is that you SHOULDN'T try to run a 3.5 adventure in PFRPG on the fly. At least, I wouldn't. To do so is risky. You never know when some little detail might come along to bite you.

There is almost no risk. My entire complete v.3.5 collection has value to me as an ostensibly supported/in-print rule set. Its not a bad one. I won't discuss the minutae of specific rulings, because everyone has a variance of preference when GMing. However, Its clear after playing the Alpha 1 playtest, Alpha 2 playtest, Beta Playtest, and now Pathfinder RPG, that it is safe to run any kind of v.3.5 game you like within PFRPG on-the-fly. This has been perhaps the easiest and most exciting time to use my v.3.5 set since Pathfinder RPG makes GMing a pleasure, especially when it comes to some of the simplifications made. I can grab any thing d20/open game licence (OGL/v.3.5 and go! Where creatures are present in the bestiary, I use that instead. My rule book is the CORE rulebook, but otherwise my library of Forgotten Realms books, The Tome of Horrors series 1-3, and everything v.3.5 is very much alive and thriving! Try it, you'll see.

Let me describe my perspective briefly...

Its not an ideal situation, and from experience I can list all the negatives, but the bottom line is the OP has a shot at getting a gaming group where before he had none. It might turn out okay.

After 27 years of playing, if I were put into that situation, I would be familiar with the pitfalls the OP is walking into, and try to address many of them - but, going in completely fresh, I'm not sure its worth trying to spend more energy on those issues, than just focusing on having fun and getting the experience...

1) Arrive on time, be early. Pick a place to GM from that makes you feel most comfortable. Set up your stuff. Have a few ideas written down in a loose outline. Have a list of page numbers for monster encounters. Flag the page with NPC class/stats on it for human incidental NPCs.

2) Bring blank character sheets, or arrange to have a friend make some copies for you. Given your situation, ask the players to write up a copy of their characters for you to take with you when you go. Seems like they want to play established characters, but having a copy will immediately put the ball in your court, since you can review these at home before the next session. Ask them to do this before you play - review them briefly, noting which players seem to have "all the stuff" or "all the wealth" or "all the high scores". More on this later....

3) Your first "minute" will be important. Don't start until you have complete attention, and don't let the group cause a false start. Ask them to get any drinks, take any breaks they need before you start. Let them know that once you start, you'll need everyone at the table for 30 minutes with no exceptions. (this is a complete trick) Its just to see how they react, if they respect you, and to give you the space you need to start strong. Again, ask this before you begin. Gain their agreement. This approach will serve you well.

4) Describe, describe, describe. As a game master - you have TRUE SIGHT. You see all things that are, and are not, or will be, and have been. There can be no group so established, nor so powerful as to be able to do the things the Dungeonmaster can do. Use this to your advantage. Describe a place they have not been, describe it in a way that sparks their imaginations! Allow your spontaneous thoughts to channel into descriptions as you look at the game with "the mind's eye." BIG ADVANTAGE: This will make you seem very knowledgeable, prepared, and creative - all the characteristics of a good GM!

5) Remember that very little of a great game has to do with the rules. Never feel a need to explain your rolls behind the screen. Begin by getting the characters talking in-character. Have them interact. Allow them to play for a few minutes before any story hooks are thrown. Listen well to their interests. React on-the-fly to their interests. Make their interests part of the story if possible. Listen well - watch eye contact to know who the alpha-male (or female) is. Observe what they say in-game and out of game. This will tell you what they like the most..... story, battle tactics, rewards....

More to come later...... let me know if this was either interesting or helpful...

If Wizards could revoke the OGL, they would do so in a heartbeat. The Game System License (GSL) was Wizards attempt to do this in a roundabout way (accepting GSL meant giving up your rights under OGL), but smart companies like Paizo made their save against the Dispell License spell.

+1

Long Live The Open Game Movement!

I'd like to echo guy Humual's notion:

DMing isn't hard.

Just get your feet wet.

There isn't any fantastic first experience you need to pine over, as along as you're prepared to get some practice and continually improve.

That's it.

DMing isn't really hard.

One way to have the most fun, is to go with your gut. The game, played well, is a natural exercise of expanding the mind, and releasing one's imagination. Have fun. You already know how to do that!

Gary Gygax once said, "What we must never tell the dungeonmaster is that he doesn't need any rules." LOL

Maybe Guy Humaul is trying to say, "don't overthink it" or make it out to be difficult rather than fun!

Enjoy.

I think at this point, there's a lot of us just willing to get together late one night and have a talk with this "friend" who wants to hand the DMing off to you at a very difficult point. Just post his name and address in this thread and we'll take things from there. ;)

We'll rough him up for ya. Turn him upside down and shake out the silver shillings, and electrum he's got in his pocketzees. lol

Here's the deal.... it doesn't matter if its 1981, 1991, 2001, or 2011... someone has to step up and be the game master. Congrats on stepping forward. I seem to recall that those who did step forward to be GM seemed to work out. Sometimes necessity breeds innovation/development. Let me know what you have in mind so far... I will be happy to help you tighten it up.

Need:
># players, level, classes
>5 Ws as lilith pointed out
>A general outline of the evening/adventure

Tip:
Think of your game as a loose outline.

I. Exposition - intro the PCs, location, setting, flavor, get them talking, interesting NPCs or light action.

II. Rising Action - trigger, hook, story thread, plot device, etc.

III. Climax - destination, goal, quest (or subquests), what will need to be done?

IV. Falling action - twist, subplot, hidden quest, meaning uncovered, etc.

V. Denoument - wrap up, closure, thanks, credit, reward, and hint of next adventure.

Basically, with this in mind, you can quickly jot down a quick adventure. Jot down book/page number of monsters. Have extra monsters listed for wandering or miscellaneous encounters (this includes extra human oppononents/organizations/or guilds etc).

To get started, as suggested, start small i.e. the towns folk don't need to know a lot about the next town, they don't need to know a lot about politics or anything. Start small, focus on the first adventure, get to know your players style, and their characters. Don't over prepare - you will have time to plan your next adventure.

Insist on the following:
>Players should describe their character's appearance
>Players should generally stay in character, no metagaming
>Rule disputes will be decided by the GM, any long discussions will be tabled for offline resoultion
>Don't apologize. Listen well. Observe when your players are having fun so you can learn what interests them most. Players will tell you (think) they like one thing, but in practice really enjoy another.

Good luck.

So, ...............what do you have planned???

You don't want to try to out-munchkin a munchkin

That's great advice. What you describe is like MAD (mutually assurred destruction) - the policy of cold warriors decades ago to ensure that if the Ruskies launched, we would launch too to ensure the post-apocalyptic landscape wasn't governed by neo marxists.

Besides - if you're needed to kill a character, then you've given up on true communication. That's really important for a GM, regardless of the circumstances. Good luck, but you'll get no munchkin help from me on this.

It works like this:

>Got a 3.5 collection and want to keep it relevant? Pathfinder RPG is backward compatible. Your gamemaster will determine what is included in her campaign.

>Don't have 3.5 and want to continue in the tradition and history of the past 30+ years with an improved fantasy role-play system? Pathfinder RPG is a critical hit of improvements and includes all the depth and style of vancian magic, and most other elements of the previous system. Welcome to the game!

>Enjoy Pathfinder RPG and are just now collecting v.3.5/d20/OGL materials? Fantastic! Pathfinder RPG keeps the Open Game Movement alive/relevant/current/persistant! You are part of the community that values Ryan Dancy's OGL and want to see it continue forever, as it was meant to be, with lots of publishing freedom for third party publishers.

>You've switched to Pathfinder RPG and are making a clean start? Great, because PAIZO will continue support for Pathfinder RPG with an upcoming Advanced Players Guide, and Gamemastery Guide. You can participate in open play-tests provided by a company, PAIZO, who truly values and listens to its active community.

>You're satisfied with v.3.5? Awesome, because you can still pull elements of Pathfinder RPG into your game. Many really do enjoy the sophistication of the v.3.5 system and would gladly show up to your game even if it includes some Pathfinder elements as you see fit to use.

Options folks! We have options! And a great, friendly company to support our game! Great to have these options. Its all good. Enjoy!

P.s. (this list not all-inclusive). P.p.s. My preference is PFRPG with backward compatibility as I see fit as a gamemaster. I am very proud of the open game movement and wish to see in-print support for d20/OGL for the next 30 years. I believe its important to support each other, and continue the open gaming movement.

First: welcome to the PAIZO messageboards. A lovely woman named Lilith will stop by and provide you with some cookies to enjoy.

Next: Remember, its about having fun. The folks on these boards will undoubtedly provide you with tons to consider for your situation, but remember, at 18 and with little experience as a gamemaster (GM), your current situation can be either a nightmare or a fun learning experience—its up to you.

Nightmare: Even seasoned GMs typically shy away from trying to step into an established group for all the reasons you might suspect. There is a social dynamic that won't be easy to break, and eyes will constantly peer over to the former GM for approval. Seasoned GMs will ensure new blood also comes into the group, and past campaigns are broken, new characters generated with YOUR approval, and your story be the entrypoint for your GMing. Given these circumstances, your situation will be a nightmare if you let these conditions overwhelm you. Great GMs have been successful not knowing an ounce of rules - but they execute in a way that makes everyone have a great time! You may or may not have these raw talents, but the skills needed can be learned, however, not in short order. In Sum - it will be a nightmare if you focus on these factors. One suggestion would be to look past all the things going against your situation, and focus on the fact that a seasoned group has offered the GM seat to you, with a relatively open script, and doesn't seem to care that you lack experience. My guess is - this situation can still work out great for you if you focus on telling the group you're glad to have a group to play with, you really like the game, and will need them to roll along with you during your first few months. Let them know up-front, that you want rules discussions primarily held at breaks or after the game, but during the game you ask them to play their characters and let you fully run the game without too much question. I'll bet they'd agree - and you will learn a lot along the way.

Good Situation: Again, you've been looking for a group. Take this chance. Use it as an opportunity to have fun first, weave your GM craft and serve the campaign. Sure, you know you have a lot to learn - but hey, its a group waiting to play! Seems like they want you to GM. And, if you're gracious, but firm with them, they will soon see you unquestionably as the GM. Try not to stress. If you feel like the players are not letting you make rulings - nip it in the bud and say, "for this situation I'm ruling xyz. We can discuss this type of thing off line, but we're moving forward now." Its okay to feel a little overwhelmed by the new people, and the fact that many know one another already. But, over the years, I've found that good players are the kind that can truly embrace new players or GMs at the table. Trust me - if they invited you, they're looking for something fresh. Give it to them. Let your imagination run free. Don't sweat the rules - cause you 'aint gonna learn them all in time anyhow. Just be sure not to apologize for your rulings. Try to look things up on your own, or leave rule research to off-line. Don't give your GM power away, but at the same time, focus on the fun stuff and keep things moving. The very best way to get your feet wet is to just DO IT! No matter what the circumstances, since you really like the game - DO IT! Have fun. See how far you get. Keep your worries low, axes high! Good luck.

-Pax

Chenault and the guys at Troll Lord Games know a good dnd game when they see one! Glad to see this happening! Can't wait to see in what ways Troll Lord can partner with PAIZO in the future as well! (total stocking stuffer!)

Oh... I should have read through the OP's post to the end - if you're looking for free stuff, there is TONS available. Google dungeon map generator or fantasy town generator, I'll stop back if you still can't find stuff.

Sorry - I thought Jason didn't want Monster book references? Maybe I misread....?

At my table I've been using:
>Insidiae (Gygax/Cross)
>Toolbox (AEG)
>ToH I, II, III
>Creature Collection I
>Encyclopedia Magika
>Free internet spell summary sheets (the kind that have 30 summaries on a page, fan created); I assemble these into little booklets (Cleric, Druid, Sorc, etc.) Much easier to spell sling this way.
>Ptolus is a thing of beauty! (I keep wanting to use it, but can't seem to). Just wanted to mention it because there is so many great things there and its in my crosshairs to use.
>PAIZO's Dragon Compendium I has gotten a lot of use this year: Ettercap, Advanced Elite Rust Monster, etc.

SIDE NOTE: >*Spell Compendium NOT the best - I realize this is not OGL generally, but since Jason is reading this thread in its entirety, I wanted to mention that I had to remove the Spell Compendium from play last night. When the Pathfinder Sorc mixed its power with those spells there was a visible wonky factor at the table. Once the players crossed over into another world I explained magic works differently here, and the SC is no longer available at the table. (A nerf, I realize, but sensible.) Jason - I just wanted to mention that any effort to massively expand the spell lists at this time is not desired. I personally enjoyed the SC and the fact that it collected so many great ideas from the past 20 years, but it caused much pain.)

And, I don't think a lot of Greyhawk is OGL, but I use Erik/Moore's Gazeteer for Greyhawk and other items. (not in the gameroom right now, so I don't know if there was anything OGL in there? doubtful though:()

My biggest surprise was how useful TOOLBOX is. Reminds me of using Gygaxian librams. LOL. And finally, there is a book by Bastion Press "Arms and Equipment Guide" I think its called that is definately OGL and sees a lot of use.

Recently, however, since we're enjoying the release of Pathfinder RPG, I've begun recinding offers to use material outside of Pathfinder. Not because it isn't good, and not to be a dick, but just because Pathfinder RPG has all the good stuff I need to help with things like playtest of Oracle, Cavalier and so forth.

hope that helps,
-Pax

EDIT: One more - - - The SWORD for Pathfinder Beta saw 100% use as a GM guide/screen/summary for almost a year during open playtest.