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Rule 1 of DMing a Paladin: If there is any doubt whatsoever in your mind that a Paladin broke their code, they didn't.

Rule 2 of DMing a Paladin: If there is no doubt whatsoever in your mind that a Paladin breok their code, ask the player.

"You didn't try asking nicely first" is not a breach of the code, unless you and your player* have agreed that it is beforehand.

Really, really strict paladinic codes work in novels because all the situations are contrived such that a paladin can solve them without breaking his code, and moreover, the paladin has plot protection. If they stay true to their ideals, the Paladin will win (c.f., Paksennarion).

D&D paladins, where the ability to win is subject to the whims of chance and DMs not pulling punches, have no such protection.

* Poor blighter, if he agrees to such a silly requirement.


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James Smith 870 wrote:
Its in common lore that it is dishonarble to use a bow against a knight or worthy oponent.

Says who?

That's a dumb restriction.


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stringburka wrote:


For example, having 20 charisma using a 3rd level persistent Hold Person (in a 5th level slot) against a save of +10 has a 58% chance of failure. Using a Dominate Person (5th level spell) against the same save has a 45% chance of success.

...

Oh, sorry. It should be 58% chance of success vs 45% chance of failure.
To save against HP it's +10 vs. DC 18 twice; 0.45*0.45=0.4225. 42% chance of failing saves, thus 58% chance of success.
To save against DP it's +10 vs DC 20; 0.55. 45% chance of success with the spell.

Persistent Spell says that if you succeed on your save, you have to try again. So, assuming a +10 save bonus, a persistent hold person, save DC 18 [10 (base) + 3 (level) + 5 (Cha)], has a success chance of:

Chance to Fail + Chance to Succeed * Chance to Fail = 1 - (Chance to Succeed)^2

(7 / 20) + (13 / 20) * (7 / 20) = 1 - (13 / 20)^2
0.35 + 0.65 * 0.35 = 1 - (0.65)^2
0.5775 = 0.5775

~ 58% of affecting the target. Not sure where your 0.45 * 0.45 is coming from, but you somehow come up with the right answer. :D