Patricius's page

If you are trying to decide between the two I say go with Ultimate Mercy. Breath of Life (Channeled Revival) can be tricky to get to work. Sure the channel part of it gives you range, but as you point out it is a full round action and it has to be performed before the dead/dying character's next round/turn. When it comes to reviving characters I tend to prefer the more reliable even if that means negative levels.

Do not be nice about this at all. Don't try to put any game mechanics around how the devil has power over this contract just make it so.

1. He seems to be playing the GM here. You and just about everyone here believes he is going to try to get away with it. Although I have played with MANY players over the years who love the idea of their character getting screwed over by something like this... so who knows.
2. Role play out the scene where he makes the deal. Go into it with several objectives for the devil. Write it out much like a treaty, noting who gets what. I would highly recommend that wishes or any other spell effects that might get him out of the deal be explicitly called out in the deal and that they simply will not work.
3. Put a clause in the deal that all of the character's magical energy be from an infernal source. This means that any reneging on his part will cancel ALL spells, effectively making him an ex-wizard until he makes reparations. It also means that he will have a slightly evil aura, perhaps similar to a cleric of an evil god etc.
4. Push him toward the Diabolist PrC or go with the devil sworn idea from the 4th Beastiary (basically someone who sells their soul up front for lots of power).

Is the Druid the only healer here or do you have an NPC healer following them around?

I'd add Norse and Celtic Paganism, African derived faiths such as Santaria and Voudon, Shinto, most Native American belief systems, some strains of Roman Catholicism and Hinduism.

Yup. Good includes. The key element is the acceptance of the unknown - whether that is called mystical or magical or a mystery doesn't really matter. Our society tends to be very scholastic and we want to know everything about anything and give it a name. Some people (and religions) have the ability to simply accept that they don't know everything... those are the types who will have an easier time with role playing (instead of roll playing) an oracle.

FYI.. I liked your examples of possible oracle types, from Tiresias to Francis of Assisi... all good examples.

Vary up your monsters...
- Diminutive Swarms will be completely immune to whatever your barbarian can throw at them (low level players hate these) but your sorcerer should be able to handle them without much trouble
- Skeletons and Zombies have DR against specific weapon damage types, toss whichever your barbarian can't handle at them
- Create an opposing group of adventurers, have that group be well balanced and use potions etc smartly

Those are just a few guesses. You might want to include some quick stat blocks on the players including the little bit you gave about the barbarian (+4 to hit, 1d10+3 ... or +6 to hit and 1d10+5 when he's raging). It would be good to know things like AC, HP, hit and damage. I would also suggest that you let us know what kinds of encounters you have been throwing against them. Last thought... who is healing this crew, and has there been any problem keeping them alive?

After reading the other posts... I would also suggest adding what archetypes if any the players have chosen. Sometimes an archetype gives up a critical feature that unbalances the group. I have seen this happen a number of times.

One thing that might be controversial as I say this. When I have talked about what an Oracle is, getting into a few arguments, I've noticed those most involved w/...

It depends on the religious background. The more systematic and academic (scholarly) the religious background the harder it is to grasp concepts such as mystery or mystical. Religious backgrounds that openly accept the unknown should be better able to handle such concepts -- specifically Taoism, Eastern Orthodox Christianity, Hasidic Judaism and some branches of Buddhism.

Excellent guide!

For Part 3: Multiclass Options - 2nd Level of Paladin is really strong because of Divine Grace. Add your already strong Cha mod to all of your saving throws. Who wouldn't take a second level if they had already grabbed the first with this huge buff?

Before posting I searched the threads to see if anyone brought this up.

Anything else I should know about?

Rope Trick.

Get in and pull up the rope. It is an extra-dimensional space that can be sealed off from the environment.

Another suggestion: After reading Baleful Polymorph and reading the immunities of Undead (What? No, I'm not going to throw a bunch of undead at you tonight... ok... maybe a little bit of undead), I think the save should be Fortitude, not Will. I understand the thematic reason for Will... the Oracle struggling to retain his self control. Mechanically constructs and undead should be immune to the effects of this curse if you use Oracle's Bane on them, but both of those say that they are immune to effects requiring Fortitude saves (unless it specifically affects objects).

Just something to think about. : )

So I have now had a chance to playtest this curse.

It is an incredibly fun curse. It is also insanely unbalanced for one specific reason: Oracle's Burden...

Oracle's Vessel would also be pretty messed up. The target gains all the advantages of becoming a wolf without becoming a wolf.

k, iteration 3 (possibly final, at least for me, but open to suggestions still):

** spoiler omitted **...

I think you only need "Beast Shape I" as that gives you access to medium sized animals. Beast Shape II does nothing additional for medium sized animals... it just gives you access to large and tiny.

Lamin Jawara
Alignment: Neutral 
Portfolio: Gunsmithing, gunpowder, Siege Weapons 
Domains: Artifice, Fire, Gunsmoke 
Subdomains: Demolitions, Siege, Smoke, Toil 
Favored Weapon: Firearms 
Lamin Jawara was a mortal man from Alkenstar. He was the premier expert on guns, siege weapons, bombs and all things that use gunpowder. He may not have invented gunpowder or guns, but in his time no one came close to his understanding. His ideas were so far from the norm that the authorities of Alkenstar sought to have him arrested. Lamin learned of their plot and fled to Riddleport to continue his work. The reach of the marshals of Alkenstar found Lamin in the city of pirates and had him assassinated and his notes burned or captured. Now, decades later, people have reported seeing him in the middle of firefights or after the blast of a cannon. Some few have begun to pray to him for excellence in the loading of gunpowder or crafting of a siege engine... and to onlookers it appears that their prayers are answered. Is it possible that he passed the Test of the Starstone prior to his untimely demise? Perhaps one of the artifice gods, such as Brigh, took interest in him raising him to godhood. Or was it his mad genius alone that made him more than human?

Gunsmoke Domain
Deities: Lamin Jawara 
Note: Other deities are attempting to gain the Gunsmoke Domain by force or friendship with Lamin Jawara. There are no current rules presented here for how this will take place. 
Granted Powers: With dedication and a little faith, you are capable of performing grandiose feats with firearms. 
Gun Adept (Ex): You gain Amateur Gunslinger and Gunsmithing as bonus feats. The divine gunner also gains a battered gun identical to the one gained by the gunslinger. Note that this does not give the cleric Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Firearms). Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Firearms) must be purchased separately or as part of a deity’s favored weapons. 
Divine Aim (Su): At 6th level, the cleric gains the ability to channel divine energies to guide ranged attacks. As a swift action, the cleric can designate a target within sight and add a Sacred/Profane bonus equal to the Wisdom modifier to ranged attack rolls against that target. This bonus persists until the target dies or until combat ends. The cleric can use this ability 3 + Wisdom modifier times per day. Whether the bonus is Sacred or Profane depends on if other class features use Positive Energy or grant Sacred bonuses. If no such class feature exists then the cleric must select whether this bonus is Sacred or Profane and cannot change the type once selected. 
Domain Spells: 1st—Abundant Ammunition, 2nd—Ricochet Shot, 3rd—Pellet Blast, 4th—Named Bullet, 5th—Flamestrike, 6th—Greater Named Bullet, 7th—Repulsion, 8th—Fire Storm, 9th—Foresight

Demolitions Domain
Associated Domain: Gunsmoke 
Replacement Power: The following granted power replaces the Gun Adept power of the Gunsmoke Domain. 
Gunpowder Grenade (Ex): The cleric gains access to gunpowder grenades, which function similar to the Alchemist Bomb class feature, except that the bombs are not supernatural, cannot be modified by any Alchemist Discovery and may not be used to access Feats related to Bombs or Discoveries. The cleric can use a number of bombs each day equal to his class level + his Wisdom modifier. These bombs are unstable, and if not used in the round they are created, they degrade and become inert—their method of creation prevents large volumes of explosive material from being created and stored. Damage and Saving Throw DC of these bombs are based on the cleric’s Wisdom modifier instead of Intelligence. If levels of Alchemist are taken with the Bomb class feature, then the class feature from the Alchemist will replace this domain power – although the damage dice levels will stack (three levels of cleric plus three levels of alchemist will be the same damage dice as a sixth level alchemist). In all other ways gunpowder bombs function the same as the Alchemist Bomb class feature. 
Replacement Domain Spells: 1st— Bomber's Eye, 2nd— Bullet Shield, 4th— Detonate, 6th— Brilliant Inspiration

Siege Domain
Associated Domain: Gunsmoke 
Replacement Power: The following granted power replaces the Divine Aim power of the Gunsmoke Domain. 
Battle Hymn (Su): At 8th level, the cleric can inspire the crew of a siege engine to load significantly faster, so long as the load or the ammunition uses gunpowder. As the cleric chants or sings the Battle Hymn, the crew can load the siege engine with Move Actions instead of Full-round actions. The cleric may use this ability for a number of rounds per day equal to half his cleric level. This domain power does not stack with the Master Siege Engineer feat.
Replacement Domain Spells: 2nd—Magic Siege Engine, 5th—Greater Magic Siege Engine

Credit:
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mty3?The-Cleric-was-left-out-of-the-Gun-Love
by Nemitri

I find it kind of odd that Lamin Jawara is, well, both associated with Alkenstar, but also rose to godhood. Alkenstaris noted as being completely dead-magic, so his priests wouldn't actually get any of the Domains if they are from the one place where they could really get guns. It might be better to go from a different angle? Maybe just leave his history an unknown?

BIG thank you for all the feedback, I really appreciate it.

I find it kind of odd that Lamin Jawara is, well, both associated with Alkenstar, but also rose to godhood. Alkenstaris noted as being completely dead-magic, so his priests wouldn't actually get any of the Domains if they are from the one place where they could really get guns. It might be better to go from a different angle? Maybe just leave his history an unknown?

I am happy to edit his history... but I thought the Mana Wastes were just arcane magic void. What I could do is say that he fled Alkenstaris prior to his death to share the wonders of black powder with the world. Which would have necessitated his death.

Edit: Seems JJ shares your opinion

Possible alternate to Mobile Siege
Battle Hymn (Su): At 8th level, the cleric can inspire the crew of a siege engine to load significantly faster, so long as the load or the ammunition uses black powder. As the cleric chants or sings the Battle Hymn, the crew can load the siege engine with Move Actions instead of Full-round actions. The cleric may use this ability for a number of rounds per day equal to half his cleric level. This domain power does not stack with the Master Siege Engineer feat.

Large update and hopefully the final draft (yeah right). This one includes all updates to the main domain, two subdomains and a new deity. I am sure that there will be comments on the new material. Feel free to offer balance suggestions or ideas for replacement spells and such.

Credit:
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mty3?The-Cleric-was-left-out-of-the-Gun-Love
by Nemitri

Lamin Jawara

Gunsmoke Domain
Deities: Lamin Jawara
Note: Other deities are attempting to gain the Gunsmoke Domain by force or friendship with Lamin Jawara. There are no current rules presented here for how this will take place.
Granted Powers: With dedication and a little faith, you are capable of performing grandiose feats with firearms.
Gun Adept (Ex): You gain Amateur Gunslinger and Gunsmithing as bonus feats. The divine gunner also gains a battered gun identical to the one gained by the gunslinger. Note that this does not give the cleric Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Firearms). Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Firearms) must be purchased separately or as part of a deity’s favored weapons.
Divine Aim (Su): At 6th level, the cleric gains the ability to channel divine energies to guide ranged attacks. As a swift action, the cleric can designate a target within sight and add a Sacred/Profane bonus equal to the Wisdom modifier to ranged attack rolls against that target. This bonus persists until the target dies or until combat ends. The cleric can use this ability 3 + Wisdom modifier times per day. Whether the bonus is Sacred or Profane depends on if other class features use Positive Energy or grant Sacred bonuses. If no such class feature exists then the cleric must select whether this bonus is Sacred or Profane and cannot change the type once selected.
Domain Spells: 1st—Abundant Ammunition, 2nd—Ricochet Shot, 3rd—Pellet Blast, 4th—Named Bullet, 5th—Flamestrike, 6th—Greater Named Bullet, 7th—Repulsion, 8th—Fire Storm, 9th—Foresight

Demolitions Domain
Associated Domain: Gunsmoke
Replacement Power: The following granted power replaces the Gun Adept power of the Gunsmoke Domain.
Black Powder Bomb (Ex): The cleric gains access to gunpowder bombs, which is similar to the Alchemist Bomb class feature, except that the bombs are not supernatural, cannot be modified by any Alchemist Discovery and may not be used to access Feats related to Bombs or Discoveries. The cleric can use a number of bombs each day equal to his class level + his Wisdom modifier. These bombs are unstable, and if not used in the round they are created, they degrade and become inert—their method of creation prevents large volumes of explosive material from being created and stored. Damage and Saving Throw DC of these bombs are based on the cleric’s Wisdom modifier instead of Intelligence. If levels of Alchemist are taken with the Bomb class feature, then the class feature from the Alchemist will replace this domain power – although the damage dice levels will stack (three levels of cleric plus three levels of alchemist will be the same damage dice as a sixth level alchemist). In all other ways gunpowder bombs function the same as the alchemist Bomb class feature.
Replacement Domain Spells: 1st— Bomber's Eye, 2nd— Bullet Shield, 4th— Detonate, 6th— Brilliant Inspiration

Siege Domain
Associated Domain: Gunsmoke
Replacement Power: The following granted power replaces the Divine Aim power of the Gunsmoke Domain.
Mobile Siege (Su): At 8th level, the cleric can impart supernatural speed to siege engines that use black powder. Siege engines that either fire black powder ammunition, such as bombs, or that use black powder to fire ammunition, such as cannons, gain a +10 foot bonus to Speed until the start of your next round. This bonus can be imparted to siege engines that otherwise would not have movement. The cleric may use this ability for a number of rounds per day equal to half his cleric levels.
Replacement Domain Spells: 2nd—Magic Siege Engine, 5th—Greater Magic Siege Engine

Is there a such thing as a "Divine" bonus? (Sacred/Profane?)

Yeah... I think you are correct there. Thanks.

Third draft... dropped dieties (for now), removed proficiency from Gun Adapt, modified Divine Aim based on feedback

Gunsmoke Domain
Granted Powers: With dedication and a little prayer, you are capable of performing grandiose feats with a firearm.
Gun Adept (Ex): You gain Amateur Gunslinger and Gunsmithing as bonus feats. The divine gunner also gains a battered gun identical to the one gained by the gunslinger. Note that this does not give the cleric Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Firearms). Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Firearms) must be purchased separately or as part of a deity’s favored weapons.
Divine Aim (Su): At 6th level, a cleric gains the ability to channel divine energies to guide ranged attacks. As a swift action, the cleric can designate a target within sight and add a divine bonus equal to the Wisdom modifier to ranged attack rolls against that target. This bonus persists until the target dies or until combat ends. The cleric can use this ability 3 + Wisdom modifier times per day.

Domain Spells: 1st—Abundant Ammunition, 2nd—Ricochet Shot, 3rd—Pellet Blast, 4th—Named Bullet, 5th—Flamestrike, 6th—Greater Named Bullet, 7th—Repulsion, 8th—Fire Storm, 9th—Foresight

Something like that, yeah. There's no reason to have a crappy inquisition and a domain that does almost everything that it does and then a lot more. Inquisitors could use Wisdom to hit or damage too, you know?

I like Xara's latest fix for this. It would work for Clerics or Inquisitors. Note, I did drop adding additional damage after the first draft because it began sounding more like a feat and less like a domain power. Once I add the subdomains this will make more sense as those get into bombs and siege engines.

Divine Aim (Su): At 6th level, a cleric gains the ability to channel his divine energies to guide his ranged attacks. The cleric can designate a target, and add a divine bonus equal to his WIS mod to ranged attack rolls against that target. This bonus persists until the target dies or until combat ends. The cleric can use this ability 3 + WIS mod times per day.

P.S. I really appreciate all the ideas. They have been a big help in getting this domain to be functional and hopefully well balanced.

But only one specific type, right?

When it comes to firearms there is only one proficiency to get. They don't have pistols and rifles as separate proficiencies.

Revision... 6? ...of Divine Aim.

Divine Aim (Su): At 6th level, a cleric gains the ability to channel his divine energies to guide his ranged attacks. The cleric can designate a target, and add a divine bonus equal to his WIS mod to ranged attack rolls against that target. This bonus persists until the target dies or until combat ends. The cleric can use this ability 3 + WIS mod times per day.

That works for me.

An offline suggestion that I received, and rather like, is to not give this domain to existing Pathfinder deities up front. Create a new god who either ascended of his own sheer will (Irori), passed the test (Cayden) or was elevated by another deity (Kurgess). This deity would be little more than a demigod at first with maybe three domains, but would have firearms as his chosen weapon. This would mean that Exotic Weapon Proficiency (firearms) would not be needed for the domain itself. However, clerics of other deities would have to take Exotic Weapon Proficiency (firearms) in order to gain much of the advantage of the domain.

Here is a bit of the idea behind this... guns from a deity perspective are new. Most of the deities wouldn't have a clue about what to do with guns or gunpowder. Even the deities of that have the Artifice domain could and should have a problem with what guns and gunpowder represent. Sure the god of cities would want them to maintain order... and the god of piracy would want them and gunpowder to wreak havoc on her enemies... but neither of them really has the power over guns on their own.

So we introduce a mortal man from Alkenstar, who is the premier expert on guns, siege weapons and bombs that use gunpowder. He may not have invented gunpowder or guns, but in his time no one came close to his understanding. His ideas were so far from the norm that the authorities of Alkenstar had him assassinated and his work burned or captured. Now, decades late, people have reported seeing him in the middle of firefights or during the blast from a cannon. Some few have begun to pray to him for excellence in the loading of gunpowder or crafting of a siege engine... at to onlookers it appears that their prayers are answered. Is it possible that he passed the Test of the Starstone prior to his untimely demise? Purhaps one of the artifice gods, such as Brigh, took interest in him raising him to godhood. Or was it his mad genius alone that made him more than human?

Does this sound like a good addition to the development of this domain?

Im not sure a Domain Power should require you to use another Class Feature to actually be able to use it. Seems kind of funky to me, and what about other classes that dont get Chanel Energy? How about something like 1/Day at 6th, 2 @8th, & +1/Day every 4 levels after 8th.

Now that being said, and after hinking about some of the Paizo shinanigans, using Wis for Att and Damage really doesnt seem all that OP anymore.

OK... two suggestions for fixing this then both similar

Able to use this power equal to your class + Wisdom mod in either rounds or minutes per day (depending on how powerful this should be) these rounds/minutes do not need to be consecutive but must be spent in full rounds/minutes.

If this sounds do-able, which should it be... rounds or minutes?

Seconding that Brigh is also a good fit (though a lot of minor gods just don't get listed)

Never thought about her but yes... especially since she is sticking to the middle of the road between Good and Evil that I want to establish for the deities supporting this domain. It is more a personal flavor... kinda like guns don't kill people... people with guns kill people.

Lord Fyre wrote:

[derail] The Smoking Gun of this thread. [/derail] ;D

glad i wasn't the only one who thought of the show.

Actually the name was completely intentional. hehe

Also see the video game

Im not sure a Domain Power should require you to use another Class Feature to actually be able to use it. Seems kind of funky to me, and what about other classes that dont get Chanel Energy? How about something like 1/Day at 6th, 2 @8th, & +1/Day every 4 levels after 8th.

Now that being said, and after hinking about some of the Paizo shinanigans, using Wis for Att and Damage really doesnt seem all that OP anymore.

I see what you are saying about class feature, but in this case we aren't going to have any Druids or Inquisitors taking this domain. Druids are very limited to what they can take and technically the Black Powder Inquisition should be better for Inquisitors. Inquisitors do not benefit from Domain Spells and the like when selecting domains. However, I could add a bit there for the player who thinks that this domain would be better for their Inquisitor.

Also, I dropped the additional damage out of the secondary power and only kept the additional hit. Removing firearms from the secondary power means that this power can be kept for subdomains that do not involve guns directly... like say...

Second draft...

Gunsmoke Domain
Deities: Abadar, Gorum, Besmara, any other (with GM approval) is at the expense of a second domain for the cleric choosing the Gunsmoke Domain (i.e. the cleric only has the Gunsmoke Domain for other deities)
Granted Powers: With dedication and a little prayer, you are capable of performing grandiose feats with a firearm.
Gun Adept (Ex): You gain Exotic Weapon Proficiency (firearms) and Gunsmithing as bonus feats. The divine gunner also gains a battered gun identical to the one gained by the gunslinger. A character who already has Exotic Weapon Proficiency (firearms) gains either Amateur Gunslinger or Extra Grit, depending on whether or not they already have the Grit feature.
Divine Aim (Su): At 6th level, a cleric gains the ability to channel his divine energies to guide his ranged attacks. By expending a use of Channel Energy, the cleric can add his WIS modifier to his attack rolls; this lasts a number of rounds equal to half his level.

Domain Spells: 1st—Abundant Ammunition, 2nd—Ricochet Shot, 3rd—Pellet Blast, 4th—Named Bullet, 5th—Flamestrike, 6th—Greater Named Bullet, 7th—Repulsion, 8th—Fire Storm, 9th—Foresight

Credit:
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mty3?The-Cleric-was-left-out-of-the-Gun-Love
by Nemitri

How about replacing...
Faith Shooting (Su): At 6th level, you may use your Wisdom modifier instead of your Dexterity modifier on ranged attack rolls when using any firearm. At 12th level, you may add your Wisdom modifier to damage dealt with a firearm.

with this...
Divine Aim (Su): At 6th level, a cleric gains the ability to channel his divine energies to guide his ranged attacks. By expending a use of Channel Energy, the cleric can add his WIS modifier to his attack rolls; this lasts a number of rounds equal to half his level.

Notes:
This requires more of the Cleric to use the ranged benefit and it allows the Domain to be modified into subdomains not related to guns directly.

I'm also a little unclear on if you give up both Domains to get this one, or if you are stilled getting a second Domain and this one?

Yeah, the wording on that part was tricky. Bottom line if you chose either Abadar or Gorum you get two domains -- this being one of them. If you worship any other deity you can select the Gunsmoke Domain but it will be your one and only domain.

Regarding the later power, I will say that having both powers related to gunslinging does make it difficult to create subdomains that only replace one power. If you have a suggestion for the later domain power please let me know.

Side note, I wanted two slightly opposed deities to "own" this domain initially... and I really thought about Besmara as the CN deity. Her piracy theme would be a direct affront to everything Abadar stands for.

This looks great, perhaps rename to Gramaton domain...

LOL... I see what you did there!

First, giving credit where it is due, most of this is the creation of Nemitri (Gun Domain). All I did was revamp it based on what I would like to see in the games I run and play in. Instead of commenting on a three year old thread I thought it would be a better idea to start a new one. Nemitri, thank you very much for putting this together in the first place. I knew I wasn't the only one who wanted to see a domain like this.

Gunsmoke Domain
Deities: Abadar, Gorum, any other (with GM approval) is at the expense of a second domain for the cleric choosing the Gunsmoke Domain
Granted Powers: With dedication and a little prayer, you are capable of performing grandiose feats with a firearm.
Gun Adept (Ex): You gain Exotic Weapon Proficiency (firearms) and Gunsmithing as bonus feats. The divine gunner also gains a battered gun identical to the one gained by the gunslinger.
Faith Shooting (Su): At 6th level, you may use your Wisdom modifier instead of your Dexterity modifier on ranged attack rolls when using any firearm. At 12th level, you may add your Wisdom modifier to damage dealt with a firearm.

Domain Spells: 1st—Abundant Ammunition, 2nd—Ricochet Shot, 3rd—Pellet Blast, 4th—Named Bullet, 5th—Flamestrike, 6th—Greater Named Bullet, 7th—Repulsion, 8th—Fire Storm, 9th—Foresight

Credit:
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mty3?The-Cleric-was-left-out-of-the-Gun-Love
by Nemitri

Normally I play arcane casters, but I want to avoid that this time.

So, speaking in generalities which classes work well, which don't, and why? I've already been informed that Paladin is probably not the way to go. Thoughts?

Please avoid campaign spoilers. Just speak in generalities.

Classes

Races
Anything that will give you an advantage in aquatic fights

Really, the sky and your GM are the limit here. We are talking nasty, mean pirates who really don't care what you look like are what you have done as long as you follow orders and keep the deck clean. This may be an opportunity to play an evil character -- even an Antipaladin (as long as the code is somewhat geared toward working with a group and biding time). Another suggestion is a negative channeling cleric (could be neutral worshipping neutral deity) as this will allow you to keep heals spells on hand while dishing out AoE damage.

I have played dnd for over 10 years and have yet to experience a TPK. Some times we have been close, but we soldom lose more than 1 person.

What made your TPK happen? Angry dm, dumb players or just bad luck?

I had a DM who was running Skulls & Shackles strictly by the book. We had five level three characters toward the end of the first module when we encountered a time crunch. We had extremely limited time to get through a series of tunnels before they became flooded and then we encountered a nasty mini-boss that was large. It was aquatic in a water environment and had reach, cleave, total concealment, and nauseated half our party for 1d4 rounds. Oh... did I mention that it had cleave? Or that it could grapple any one of the remaining party members that wasn't nauseated. Once we did half it's HP in damage it grabbed the bard and dragged her under and into another cave. And guess what that cave was filled with the real boss and her allies... and guess what... right after that we were supposed to start a mutiny.

Leason... water encounters against aquatic beings are tough, like double the CR tough. Sure we could have run from the encounter, but then we would have lost an NPC ally (remember that time crunch). Without that ally there was no way the mutiny would have worked.

We started that night knowing there was a potential for TPK and we did everything we could to avoid it, but the fact is that encounter was too much for us. Sure the DM could have fudged it, but from the very start he made it clear he was going to run the module as written. We all agreed and in the end it was a fun time.

Good point. What I need is a front line fighter ("party tank" for those who play MMO's) ideally with some sort of connection to Cayden Cailean either in terms of theme or game mechanic. It seems like Inquisitor is too squishy. Cavlier seems good but there seems to be emphasis on a mount which strikes me as something that might not come up much. Are mounts often useful in PFS games?

I am imagine a fighter archetype like "temple guard" or something similar. Cad is flavorful but mechanically he shouldn't "tank." Drunken Brute can tank -- I think -- but sounds like a bit of a bully rather than a defender of the weak.

The Inquisitor is a versatile class with large damage potential. Their use of teamwork feats and counting all allies as if they too had the feats makes for some crazy action during combat. I am not sure what PFS will let you get away with though (see Escape Route). Before you fully give up on Inquisitor take a look at the domains you get with Cayden Cailean, especially Travel. With that domain you can wear Medium or Heavy armor and keep your 30 foot movement. If you take a level of fighter you get all the armors and all the weapons (except exotics). The Inquisitor makes up for lower health (D8) by having immediate access to spells such as Cure Light wounds.

SA, I know it seems like a weak mechanic, but I am toying with reliable ways to pull it off. I need either channel energy from the cleric to keep him viable vs elementals and supper effective against undead and evil outsiders, or ranger to keep him viable against constructs, oozes, and plants.

Two different builds for different enemie focuses. Plus, ranger/ rogue = the Punisher. If there were an archetype that trades fav enemy for SA I would not only be in heaven, but disavow myself from all further rogue builds entirely.

Grey Warden looks to be as close as I can get for both options with sleepless detective being a close second for ranger/ rogue.

Only PrC that I am aware of that continues to gain Channel dice is Holy Vindicator. While that fits in with your desire to smash elementals (Elemental Channel as one of the possible requirements) it might not fit in with the rogue aspect of your character. It could be pulled off though.

Missed my point. There isn't a magical number of evil spells cast that turns you evil.

I think we can all agree that there is no magic number here. It is totally up to the GM how they want to implement this.

To the original poster's question... it is up to your GM how casting [Evil] descriptor spells will affect your character. It is up to him/her how casting this spell with noble intentions will affect your character.

Like any minor evil act, repeating it enough will shift your alignment.

Now, your GM might rule otherwise, but that would be a house rule in this case.

On that point, I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, because I prefer a more relativistic view of alignment. From a pure RAW perspective, a spell with the [evil] descriptor is mechanically an evil act and will contribute to shifting your alignment toward evil if you perform evil acts often enough.

I agree with Xaratherus's assessment here. An evil act by itself should not immediately turn a character's alignment evil. However, it could impact a paladin pretty negatively.

ShadowcatX wrote:

Evil is insidious. History is full of examples of people doing horrible things for "good" reasons. That doesn't make them less horrible. History also has examples of people doing good things for bad reasons, that doesn't make them good.

Of course, the current topic is about using an [evil] spell that heals people, that happens to use the blood of a foe you slay on a regular basis and is inherently evil. Does this qualify as recycling?

You either have to corrupt yourself with the taint of Hell or smear the corruption over your comrade in order to heal them. Even using Unholy Water as the component instead isn't any better... you are using raw negative energy to heal their flesh at the expense of corrupting their soul. The details of how the spell is [Evil] are left up to the DM, but whatever it is the DM should be encouraged to be creative and allow this spell to be a corrupting influence in the game.

I agree with the guy, who proposed reskinning. Name it "Celestial Rejuvenation" and give it the "Good" descirptor.

Sounds like a fair homebrew... maybe use the tears of angels freely given as the material.

My last character could have supplied you with gallons of the stuff, acquired while saving the world.

I think this spell is a great opportunity for story. Whether the spell components are acquired through good means or just unholy water (which yes, I forgot about) a [evil] spell that heals is just an awesome temptation.

There was a Vampire storyteller game that I was a part of where the storyteller (GM) provided a character an opportunity to learn infernal spells that weren't infernal... they just did the exact same thing as the infernal versions of the spell. The NPC said so... so it must have been true, right? Yeah... it didn't quite work out that way and before long the character was at odds with the entire city.

As a GM I would ensure that any good character who was willing to cast this spell had lots of opportunities to learn other spells that seem helpful but corrupted the soul. I might even have beneficial devils show up and aid the character from time to time. The more the character gave into the benefits of all these additional options... the more they would slip toward evil. It could even be done not so gradually... as long as they were working toward good ends... but as soon as they used all these new-found powers for their personal ends BANG you're evil.

As the title implies, can my good magus cast "evil" spells (infernal healing is the spell in question) without being evil? I mean, its arcane, and according to arcane (well, the way I see it at least) is that good and evil are relative. Advice?

The spell is fueled with the blood of devils. From a story perspective there is almost no "good" way to obtain that. Sure you could summon a devil and beat the tar out of it, but don't you think the agents of Hell consider this possibility. No matter what you do you are playing into their hands.

This spell is the perfect temptation for arcane spell casters with the "best of intentions". Before you know it you will be raising zombies to prevent a group of orcs from killing innocent villagers. Your trip to the dark side will be done for all the right reasons... just using the wrong means.

: )

If my copy of the Bestiary is correct The Deinonychus only has 4 attacks and one of them is a secondary attack. I think you've misunderstood the foreclaws attack.

What I am suggestion is that you use the fact that this beast has a weak secondary attack with its "claws" therefore changing it into two claws is quite advantageous.

And since Byrhtnoth wants to use it for Society being medium will help.

Looks like you are right. We have been doing that wrong for a long time now. I will have to let my DM know. : )

If your DM allows dinosaurs go with Deinonychus, it has five separate attacks (two with a -5 penalty). I have a level 9 Druid (Saurian Shaman) / level 1 Fighter who has been using this form for several levels. Even though I can put out more damage in other forms I just love the RP aspect of playing essentially a sentient raptor. Try to get someone in your group to play a bard as each of your attacks will benefit from their performance buff to damage.

The rules only really work for humanoid on humanoid. I spent several weeks working on improving the rules, but when I got to the Bestiaries that is where things break down. Monsters don't wear armor and it is often unfair to judge this between their touch AC and actual AC when performing the conversions. It could be done but it would end up being a heck of a lot of work when what it really needs is a whole new system. Hackmaster (5th Ed) has rules around this that are built around AC and DR to begin with -- downside, their DMG isn't out yet and a lot of the content needed to run a game is in there.

I am building a ferret that will do a Sorc/ Rogue multi-class. I'm not quite clear on the best way to go about that, but as a DMPC I plan to have to be carried, and while I may be able to cast I certainly can't be a meat shield. That's Garra's job. Mine as the DMPC will be to handle magic and advise when Garra needs 'int' power. I'm going to see if I can make it work. If it fails, I'll learn through failing.

I have a bit of experience with Awakened animals. First you take the base animal then you add everything that the Awaken spell indicates, including 3d6 Intelligence, +1d3 Charisma, and +2 HD. Using a Weasel as the base for your ferret you end up with a 3HD magical beast with a fairly low CHA (don't know who wrote up the Weasel stats but that sounds wrong to me). Personally, I would fudge it a bit and maybe even use the Race Builder out of ARG. If you continue with the Awakened animal concept you would start out as a level 3 monster and then add any new levels with whatever class you choose. There is an alternate set of rules (not RAW) that every three levels gained in a class you can replace one of your monster levels with a class level... and that is what I would recommend for you. Starting out the ferret would actually rival the barbarian, but in a couple levels it will balance out.

I list it for Aasimar because there is an alternate racial trait that allows an Aasimar to be treated as a human instead of an outsider, and it SHOULD qualify them for the racial archetype. This won't work in PFS, but in other games should be allowable.

I'll edit right now to make that more clear.

Thank you. I forgot about that trait.

Great guide.

Constructive feedback:
The Wanderer monk Archetype is listed several times for non-human races, including Aasimar, when this Archetype is intended for human only. I think the jury is still out on whether or not half-orcs and half elves can take human only Archetypes, so I am more concerned about it showing for Aasimar.

Hand out Helm of Opposite Alignment to the big bad boss... now we can all be friends.

So you're using feint. What does feint do? It causes the target to lose its DEX bonus towards you only - not towards anyone else. Read in that manner, all the second phrase does is extend the duration of that effect, not its scope.

Again (and I don't like sounding like a broken record, but...) the text is ambiguous. I can see validity in either interpretation, but pretending that it's absolutely clear one way or the other - especially when you've got posts in this very thread interpreting it in both ways? That's exactly why it needs an FAQ.

You are correct that when you use Feint without any other feats the target loses DEX against the next melee attack you make. Improved Feint just converts that to a move action instead of a standard. However, with Greater Feint the DEX bonus is lost from the target until the beginning of your next round. If the target has lost his DEX bonus until your next turn then it remains lost for any incoming attacks, until your next round.

I did mark this thread for FAQ.

Does a character with Greater Feint, who feints an opponent, deny the opponent its DEX bonus to AC versus the character's attacks only, or against attacks from any source?

I personally see the latter interpretation as grossly overpowered, even with the prerequisites, but would like to put this up as a possible FAQ.

"he loses that bonus until the beginning of your next turn" - it is gone until the character's next turn and his dex bonus does not count toward AC for anyone attacking him until your next turn.