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Pan's page

RPG Superstar 2013 Star Voter, 2014 Dedicated Voter. Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber. Pathfinder Society Member. 2,385 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 2 Pathfinder Society characters. 1 alias.


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Taldor

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memorax wrote:

I do think some sort of alignment needs top be enforced. Or it ends up turning into a free for all at the table. I have played in games where Paladins are properly roleplayed. In some where thy are either lawful stupid or dirty harry with a shield and sword. I was at odds with one gaming group one time because they torched a hobgoblin nursery without any hesistation. I refused to do so. Being told "well they would probably grow up to be the enemy " was simply imo not playing in character or very heroic. Nor is playing a Lawful Good character who has tries to to haggle a fee to help someone.

I'm not saying alignment has to be a strait jacket in terms of roleplaying. There is a reason tit's so tied into the D&D. If one wants to play himself at the gaming table I encourage it. I also enforce a alignment if a player decides to take a class whose abilites are tied to a alignment. I have a barbarian cohort who at the start of the fight was trying was on top of a stone hut trying to break his way in to get at a enemy inside. I realized that was not proper barbarian behavior. Stopped. Ran to the edge of the hut jumped off and macked a Vrock off the side of the head. I took a AOO yet it just seemed more in character.

I'm starting to notice a trend in the D&D gaming community. First low attributes are not meant to be penalties as they can be role played away. Alignment nah I don't feel like playing one it gets in the way of roleplaying. There are plenty of other fantasy rpg out on the market if one does not want to play within the restrictions of D&D. Such as Fate. I think many gamers here would like it's narrative and freeform nature.

I see now that we are miles apart on play style. I wouldnt want alignment either if It was as hard coded as you seem to imply here.

Taldor

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This thread is starting to sound less about the alignment system and more like, my GM bent me with mechanics and I don't want them to have that power so lets remove alignment. Still not convinced.

Taldor

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Hmm Madden football games are hugely popular but I have never bought one. If you give it a try I think you will find it is not only possible but it works to skip titles you are not interested in.

Taldor

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You could just not buy/play zombie games for awhile.

Taldor

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You can lead horses to water but you cant make them drink. Do one shots or board games with these guys. Find yourself some new players for a long term campaign.

Taldor

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Damian Magecraft wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:
Well yes, in a controlled environment such as point buy people will generally use the spreads that are good. I don't see that as a bad thing though, it allows for much greater player choice in what you want to build compared to rolling and potentially getting stats unsuited for the character you want.

When the fighter/rogue/mage/cleric/bard in game A has the same exact stats as the fighter/rogue/mage/cleric/bard in game B and the fighter/rogue/mage/cleric/bard in Game C and the fighter/rogue/mage/cleric/bard in game D, Ad nauseaum...

It gets old... Fast.

Who cares? Every single one of their personalities can be different. Every story they share will certainly be different. Don't see the problem. It seems some folks give way more shis about stats then I do. The way I see them is they are as loose a guide for roleplay as alignment. Sure now and then mechanics will get ya but most of the time it aint no thang.

Taldor

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Umbriere Moonwhisper wrote:
i focus on mannerisms and use of wording. a character intended to act like a cute girl, will probably say things like "Thankies" or "Helloesies" instead of "Thank you" or "Hello" or "Gratsies" instead of congratulations.

I am pretty sure everyone in my gaming group would try their best to get your character killed. Cave full of trolls? "Why dont you go say "helloesies" Loli?

Taldor

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Rynjin wrote:
Balgin wrote:
Car is an abbreviation of horseless carriage and therefore still technically quite correct.

And toon is a recognized abbreviation for your character in an RPG.

But if people would rather wig out over the usage of an innocuous term, by all means have at it. I can chuckle from the sidelines.

Sort of. I think a better analogy would be calling a baseball bat a racket. Both are used in sports, both hit balls though they are used in different ways despite similarities. Close enough but not really.

Taldor

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yellowdingo wrote:
Orfamay Quest wrote:
yellowdingo wrote:


Yeah, you really need to read rossums universal robots (the play).

Why? Do you have any basis to assert that it's a more believable future than Star Trek?
You keep electing presidents who are sure god is on your side...

If the candidates don't say God is on their side half the country wont vote.....

Taldor

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I dont pray to the hate or love shrines of Bay or Whedon but I do know where to set my expectations of them. Just sayin.

Taldor

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Wow y'all are really getting worked up about this. Its Bay don't do this to your selves.

Taldor

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Tequila Sunrise wrote:
Pan wrote:
Tequila Sunrise wrote:
DigitalMage wrote:
It is interesting that more than a couple of suggestions of what to do in PF2 are things that 4e actually did. Paizo may want to take a look at 4e and see what stuff it did well and perhaps learn from that.
...But don't tell the fans! PF 2e might fail just because the haters carry the old "It's not really a rpg" nonsense over from 4e. ;)
You been waiting since the OP to bust this out I bet!
That's right, this is all part of my master plan to manipulating Paizo into publishing Pathfinder: the Fourthing!

I think Fourthfinder has a better ring to it. :)

Taldor

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memorax wrote:
Excaliburproxy wrote:
Sensitive ROLEplayer wrote:
I'd like a proper roleplaying game back like we had in the Gygax days, not this anime math nonsense!
This is the worst idea. There are easily 8 printing retroclones at any given time. Pathfinder should not be a retroclone.
Agreed. While Im enjoying lookin through my 2E reprints and like much of what Im reading. PF should not go back to that imo. If I want older style of gmaing I can use 2E or any of the retroclones.

Guys I hate to tell you this but.......LawLz

Taldor

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Jaelithe wrote:
I'd probably even go so far as to say that I'd take offense at someone who declared their unwillingness to even try. That's the kind of close-mindedness that derails games, friendships and love affairs before they even start.

What about someone who has tried DMPC and just flat out doesnt like the concept good or bad? For me its about play style and I learned from experience I just dont care for DMPC on either side of the screen.

I like that a group dynamic forms with the PCs. Its up to them to form plans and make decisions. Its not so much a player vs GM dynamic but a seperation of places in the game. I could send them a silent animated heal wand or a melee fighting dummy to round out the roles but I dont like the idea of a thoughtless souless character in the game. On the flip side then I have to run a fully fledged memebr of the party. That means role playing with the players and weighing in on decisions and RP-ing oddly enough with myself as GM. Neither uses of DMPC are attractive to me.

So I am not denying that DMPC can work for some people but for me it fails on a concept level and their inclusion will make my game suffer because of it.

Taldor

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bugleyman wrote:
Marthkus wrote:
It made the game easier to play but destroyed the (overused word) verisimilitude.

...for you. And clearly many others. But not for me -- I rather preferred 4E. Sadly, WotC mis-managed it into the ground.

In any event, how about we take a step back from edition war territory and talk about PF 2e?

Actually I think this is some of the best criticism. Marthkus is explaining without being derogatory or using hyperbole why he may not like an element of 4E. Since those elements have been brought up as ideas for PF2 seems like fair game to me. Maybe we should back up from the E-war alarm until its neccesary?

Taldor

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Tequila Sunrise wrote:
DigitalMage wrote:
It is interesting that more than a couple of suggestions of what to do in PF2 are things that 4e actually did. Paizo may want to take a look at 4e and see what stuff it did well and perhaps learn from that.
...But don't tell the fans! PF 2e might fail just because the haters carry the old "It's not really a rpg" nonsense over from 4e. ;)

You been waiting since the OP to bust this out I bet!

Taldor

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memorax wrote:
Kthulhu wrote:

1

Perhaps, but Paizo has made more substantial changes to its system in five years via "errata" between different printings than Chaosium has made in over 30 years across six editions of Call of Cthulhu.
Good point. Yet the seventh edition of CoC is supposed to be different from previous editions so it goes to show even Chaosium is willing to change their rules. A 2E by 2020. Not 2045. I don't want to try a new rpg when I'm 70 years old and in a retirement home.

I hope i'm not in a home at 70, but if I am, trying PF2 is exactly what I hope to be doing!

Taldor

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memorax wrote:
Steve Geddes wrote:


To be clear - if they do start losing money and if they think PF2 is going to stop that, then I'm all for it. I just dont buy the inevitability argument that often crops up.
Call me a cynic now yet I think a product eventually needs to be replaced. Not saying that PF needs to anytime soon. I do think that eventually they will run out of new material to release. Even with the APS. How many APs does one person need. Were starting to see it with the Bestiaries imo. What is the difference between a ocean or River giant again. A hill, cave or mountain Troll again. They still have a lot of material to offer. I wish they would do a environment series. Or new campaign settings. Getting tired of just Golarian specific stuff. I'm nito sure if the Stategy guide is going to be wroth it.

They could make APs forever and I wont need a PF2. Also like you point out there is so much good material to use here why are you so eager to hit the reset button?

Taldor

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Real world myth arguments aside, what I want to know is why would you want to play in someones campaign if they clearly dislike your concept?

Taldor

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Ivan Rûski wrote:
Forget that it's a Bay movie, or that the Turtles look creepy, look at the casting. Megan Fox as April? William Fichtner as Shredder? Not that Fichtner is a terrible actor, but he's white. I'm not usually one to complain about a race swap, but in this case it's pretty important to the character. And Megan Fox is less an actress than a mannequin. Even with these concerns though, I'm going to hold off judgement until I see the movie.

I think they are going off the beaten path with the story so shredder being white isnt that problematic. Of course its evil corporation experimenting on stuff and evil lead dude of said corportation becomes a villian so nothing new here.

Taldor

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Since I am a fan of Traveller and Aces and Eights random background generators dont bug me that much. Soemtimes though you dont want random and I dont begrudge players that. When it comes to PF my players make good use of the players guides for the APs. We tend to make up our own concepts that fit within the campaign of course.

I dont ever start a long term campaign until I have had a discussion with the group involved. If a GM wants to put some restrictions on the campaign becuase they have something particular in mind I am usually cool with that. I really like a GM that gives me something to work with. On the other hand if the game is too restrictive or in a direction I dont care for, I always reserve the right to say no thanks. I also feel I can say no thanks without any hard feelings.

Taldor

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+x items of 3E pretty much killed any desire I have to name any magic item.

Taldor

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Anzyr wrote:
Pan wrote:

Do people really have this much trouble starting games? I mean persoanlly I am thrilled that someone has stepped up to GM. I love fitting my character to the campaign and cant wait to see how much heart a GM puts into it.

I see now many folks are all about making their character the way they want. Thats cool too. What I dont understand is why a GM cant be restrictive without being a horrible person? Why cant you simply say "yo, banning x because you dont like it is not cool with me. In fact that kills it for me. I'll catch you later". Why does that make the player entitled? Why cant people pick and choose their games?

Because their reason is almost always "I don't like it." and that's a terrible reason to remove an option that other people like from a group game. How does one of your player's playing a Tengu Magus ruin the game for you? But ya, if the GM won't budge on that the player should find another game, because that GM is probably entitled.

Ok lets go at this from another point of view. You ask a GM why he doesnt have Tengu in his game and he says, "I dont like them." Do you really want to play a Tengu in that persons game? The GM is not going make the game fun for you. At best he completely ignores the fact you are a Tengu. I would rather play to the strengths of the GM or if this is a symptom of other things, not play in their games at all. Who cares about entitlement?

Taldor

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Irontruth wrote:

I don't mind Michael Bay, I really only have one complaint about his movies: they're too long.

I enjoy brainless action movies with lots of explosions. The thing is that too much and too long gets boring. 90-100 minutes is the sweet spot of an action movie with little to no plot IMO. The acting doesn't need to be great, the plot can have holes, it just needs to be edited well and have an eye for pacing.

If they were tighter time-wise, it would seriously solve almost every other issue with his movies.

This....and well the terrible stereotyping.

Taldor

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Stark_ wrote:
One confirmed critical, and your career is over.

Not even that. The monk death I witnessed got hit by two human thugs same round and died hilariously.

Taldor

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I've seen this attempted once. Died first session, first fight. True story.

Taldor

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Yeah the other players were a real high on her horse elf cavalier, half-orc fighter, dorf cleric, and my human bard. The people literally wouldnt follow any of them but the bard.

"wise men dont seek power; It is thrust upon them" -Callus

Taldor

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W E Ray wrote:
Landon Winkler wrote:
The one after Iron Gods will probably be more traditional. They've made a point, thus far, of alternating between traditional and experimental APs.

.

.

Yeah.

And here's hoping they decide to stop, at least for a couple years (4 APs), doing the "experimental" APs.

Modules are a great venue for time travelling and SciFi Planet adventures and all that other hogwash that's only fun every once in a blue moon.

The APs should stick to new twists and plays on the classic D&D / high fantasy swords & sorcery tropes.

No way, I like the mix it should be 50/50.

Taldor

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paging moonwhisper.....

Taldor

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Hama wrote:
PsychoticWarrior wrote:
Hama wrote:
If I am not going to go away for some personal time, because I made a commitment to my friends, neither shall they. Or they can not come that day.
Gaming before sex Hama? Seriously? You must just be a joy to hang around with. :D

So, we're in the middle of a session and my gf texts me something along the lines of "I'm horny, come home".

Not going home. We can have sex any other day of the week. After the session or before the session. Those several hours are devoted to my friends. If she doesn't like that, that's her problem.
Oh and I told her so.

Actually my reply would be "sure hit the club and bring another girl home. Ill be there in a few hours" :)

Taldor

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Matt Thomason wrote:
thejeff wrote:

It seems like the simpler approach would be just to play an E6 variant. Then you've got "guy is really good with a sword" being comparable to the casters. Sure, you could make another game system and stretch those levels out over 20 levels, and then build an entire alternate subsystem on top of that, but it seems like a lot of work.

In PF, once you're into the midgame, you're out of the realm of the mundane. Once you're into the high levels you're in the realm of superheroes or legends. That's not where the mundane guy fits.

That's a matter of perception though. I can play a L20 fighter quite happily as "Probably the best swordsman in the world" without feeling they're pulling off superhuman feats.

To me, the superhero/legend stuff is in Mythic-level play. The only issue I really have is the non-mythic casters being capable of so much. E6 cuts away levels in order to keep the game low-powered, when I'd rather do that cutting on spells, I don't really want to cut much, if anything, from existing martials at all.

I am so with you. Problem is a lot of folks really like fantasy turned up to 11. E6 is an ok fix but like you point out, it cuts over half the game out for those folks. You nerf spells and then you are turning down the fantasy for the folks who enjoy that element. Really modular design is the answer hopefully we will see a lot more of it going forward so everyone wins without having to have half a game.

Taldor

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jhofack wrote:
Pan wrote:
I think I see the other side of the same coin....

Elaborate please

Group to left of me is saying "What no maths? How can you have fun without the maths?" Group to the right of me is saying "The fun isnt in the maths dont worry about the maths." Just a rehashing of the tired old "role vs. roll" argument.

Taldor

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RDM42 wrote:
There needs to be an option as well, as said, for those who want more traditional and less fantastic "Mundanes" or Semi-Mundanes". Making all the options be high end fantastic removes that option from the toolkit.

Modular design please!

Taldor

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/signed!!!!

Taldor

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GM(me) prefers bourbon over whisky but all offerings of spirits are apreciated.

Taldor

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Not sure why those talents are not X times per Y mod.

Also, on initial click thought thread title was "whats the deal with once a day Rogue threads?" /shrug

Taldor

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I think going about it as if you are either artistic or scientific is the wrong way to go about it. Its a common theme though and really at the heart of the dreaded "Roll vs Role" play argument. Think of it as a sliding scale and everyone is on both. Often, folks will turn one slider to 11 and turn down the other but that doesnt mean you cant still care about story and stats.

The most passionate gamers are going to head to the forums. To be honest it’s much easier to have a discussion about "scientific" topics than it is "artistic" ones. If you are hoping to head off unwanted responses you may want to specify in your OP that you wish to discuss one or the other. Be prepared for people to ignore it anyways but at least you should garner a few on topic replies.

Taldor

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I am extremely picky about who I play with. My rule numero uno is never ever, I repeat, never ever start a long term campaign with a group I do not know. On the flip side, I love PUGging. I use PFS and meetup to meet local gamers. I start convos with them and find out what people like. During PFS or one shots I find out who I can stand and who matches up to my style. From there I attempt to push aquaintence into friendship then launch long term gaming groups. Thats the secret to my success.

I understand the question was "what do you do when you have mismatching playstyles in the group?" My answer is I dont allow it. I lease or try before I buy. Now I am not saying I have the perfect group there is a bit of compromise and group dynamics that requires buy in from everyone in the group. Some poor experiences in past has lead me to believe that there are sliding scales for both "artistic" and "scientific" styles. My "try before I buy" method helps me discover who I am compatible with.

There are other things to consider beisdes playstyle as well. reliability and commitment are huge too. Some people have a love for gaming, but are socially awkward or poorly mannered. Sometimes these people are your best friends or family. Sometimes your best friends or family make the worst gamers. Dont lock yourself down with them. Life is too short for bad gaming. You can still be firends and family if you dont game together.

Keep in mind this is all subjective. What I find to be nirvana is somebody else's nightmare. It is ok to avoid styles you do not like. Check your badwrongfun though during discussions. Also, FFS leave people alone at FLGS and Cons too.

Taldor

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Cant go wrong with Bard.

Taldor

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Lamontius wrote:

Paizo Messageboard: The Movie

like this?

Taldor

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I think the Paladin is a specific archetype and should be a prestige class and not a full base class. That cat is out of the bag though and not going back in. Folks love the Paladin so it should stay a full base class for them to play.

Taldor

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This.

You could take Tacticslion's post above and replace GMPC with railroad and it would be the same thing. Some people think its the bees knees and others think its a fart in a bottle best never opened. If you really want to champion the cause start trying to prove it can be a feature instead of arguing it doesn't exist. IME, it never works kind of like the words fluff, powergamer, sandbox, etc. These words dont have dictionary definitions but people are going to use them.

Taldor

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I once handled this type of player and to their credit they co-operated. I told the player "look these guys dont want to worry about you screwing them and taking their stuff. It may be meta and cramp your style but leave them alone and I will make sure as GM to give you plenty of sneaky-theif opportunities. I dont care if you steal from my NPCs, they might, but I wont. The other players however dont have fun with that so stop or there is the door." Worked out in the end. Some players just get kicks from being disruptive and you may not be so lucky.

Taldor

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spoiler:
Man did the Walrus and the Ranger get their ass shredded or what?

Taldor

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Do one on one character creation with the newbs. Sit down take away the book for a few min and ask them to envision a character. Ask them how they would like this character to carry them self and solve problems etc. Based on their answers pick a class and walk them through how to do the things they talked about before even looking at the book.

Taldor

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Its cursed because it changes you against your will. Well I guess you could identify it and use it willingly but no need to digress. I agree with Zhayne about the item being phenomally stupid.

Taldor

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What do you think Admiral?

Taldor

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I would think you would be down with the experimental APs having a handle of "snow crash" and all.

Taldor

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Vamptastic wrote:

Every criminal Punisher wastes ups his alignment more towards Good.

In my games, in Paladins fall, they can atone by jamming their thumbs into criminals' eyes.

Yeah I can tell we look at alignment very differently.

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