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Griffon

Omnius's page

Goblin Squad Member. 24 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists.


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Master Summoner.

Most tanks have the mortal flaw in that you care if they die. Even your eidolon is inconvenient to lose. Summons, however? Throw them away all day, and you can raise walls of meat that can be all over the place and do horrible, horrible things.


My suggestion? Cleric of Erastil (which you're already doing). Guided Hand.

There's a dad feat along the way, but using Wisdom to hit is awesome. You can be a full-strength cast-happy Cleric and still get an awesome to-hit bonus. You just need that 13 Dex to qualify for feats, and you can easily afford decent scores in anything else you care about.

Also? Animal/Fur/Feather domain (preferably feather unless your GM locks that into a bird animal companion) for the animal companion, because getting a best friend is awesome. Follow that up with Boon Companion to get back up to full progression and you're golden, though that'll probably be your seventh-level feat, after Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot. Living without those for a while sucks.


Later on, like with arrows, +1 Bane bullets of varying flavors are very nice. Being able to swap in Human Bane or Undead Bane onto your weapons on the fly is fantastic.


Also, keep in mind that the original example was a beast with no one else in reach. No reason not to kill.


ForgottenRider wrote:
I think my problem is I want to use them for everything now

Concept: Seductive Bard.

Answer: Ratfolk!


The issue a lot of people bring up on this topic is that if you're not willing to kill the PCs when the dice fall there and it makes sense, then the game is boring; there are no consequences. It's bad to refuse to kill players.

Thing is, this ties into one of the big consequences of D&D. By the rules of the game, failure means death, and the party can't lose a fight because battles default to being to the death and if the party loses a fight, they're all dead and either you reroll a completely new party or the game is over.

Even on an individual level like we're talking about, failure is either punished in a nigh-absolute sense,completely ending their character's plotline no matter what's going on in the story, or meaningless because you'll just be rez'd tomorrow. Well, that's a problem in a system that has very few consequences other than death.


Short version? You don't.

D&D and, by extension, Pathfinder is a phenomenally high-magic game. If you want a higher-magic game, you're getting into the realm of Exalted (and even that's easier to adapt to low-magic). Even at level three, you're beginning to feel the hole, hard. Magic items are a hard-wired assumption around which the game revolves. If you want a robust low-magic game, play in a different system. Burning Wheel, Savage Worlds, GURPS, Dungeon World, True20, Fate, Primetime Adventures. Take your pick.

That said, best you can do is cap leveling at three.


Lemme put it this way. My character I made the day after I got UE? A light wagon can just barely haul the four grand in mundane and alchemical equipment I ended up getting.


One of my favorites, which I don't believe a Summoner can actually do, is a Sorcerer trick. Metamagic Rod: Quicken, use it for a quickened Animal Growth when you summon a T-Rex or brachiosaurus. Instant kaiju.


The most important thing about making a Summoner awesome is you. No matter how you spec your Summoner, the Summon Monster spell will be important, whether it's from your SLA or from your spell list. You will cast it, a lot, and you will do horrible, horrible things with it because the Summon Monster line is more powerful than some entire classes.

But, to get that, you have to know your summons, and you have to know how to use it. You need to know when to put a wall of 1d4+2 bison between you and harm, when to bury your enemy in tripping wolves, when you need a big burly earth elemental, and especially when to use the fancier stuff and their abilities. You need to know why Summon Monster V is one of the most potent anti-golem spells in the game (1d4+2 lantern archons; two 1d6 damage touch attacks per round against pathetic golem touch AC bypassing all DR and the spell immunity- it's one of the game's best damage spells), and all that jazz.

Make sure to grab Augment Summons, sure, but also, Superior Summoning. When you summon more than one critter in one shot, call out one more. Helps field a lot of meat.


Tels wrote:
I want a +1 Flaming Frying Pan for my characters wife.

It's cheaper and almost as effective to just get her a masterwork fire-forged steel frying pan. That'd clock in just under a thousand.

Dennis Baker wrote:

... or it might just be because everyone loves waffles. I'm not sure in this case.

FWIW, I like the inclusion. Its the sort of obscure item my wife loves having in the game. She paid for the non-stick mithral for her character.

Oh, I have one (regular, not non-stick). Plus a folding table, and folding chairs and mess kits enough for the whole party, and waffle mix, and powdered milk, and some canvas she can use as a tablecloth. It just seemed a weird inclusion. Especially since they don't include a towel. :P

Hm... I should probably pack wine and candlesticks and stuff so the place settings can serve double duty, in case I need to host an impromptu candlelight dinner...


Dennis Baker wrote:
Omnius wrote:
So. Waffle iron. Mithral waffle iron. Is there some sort of in-joke story behind why this is in the book? O.o

Well Paizo tends to avoid jokes in products so I hesitate to suggest this at all....

Have you seen The Gamers?

It's been a long time. Don't recall what the reference there would be.


So. Waffle iron. Mithral waffle iron. Is there some sort of in-joke story behind why this is in the book? O.o


Rather too straightforward to be a bend, but... lantern archons. Summoning swarms of them against anything big and scary with gobs of natural armor to whittle 'em away can make GMs cry.


It breaks caps. Lets you get a higher Escape Artist bonus than if you'd just maxed it without the alternate favored class bonus.

*Shrug.*


And here I thought this would have something to do with using the Advanced Race Guide to make amazons as a race (or more specifically, a problem with a player who already had). :P


I would build them using DC Adventures.


It's also good to keep in mind that a fair many of these go-to, amazing spells are also fairly limited. Like Sleep. The best spell evar. Unless the target has more than 4 hit die. Or has a great will save. Or is an elf. Or is a zombie. Or is any of a thousand things that have immunity.

In the case of Black Tentacles, it's a very good spell. For certain types of enemies. Specifically, clusters of weaker, landlocked enemies that aren't particularly big or strong and don't have any of a list of countermeasures (teleportation, freedom of movement, etc). If you're fighting a group of orcs, it's spectacular; you cripple them all in one shot. If you're fighting a T-Rex or two? Eh, not so much.

I love the spell and rarely run a sorcerer without it, but when I take it, I always notice the broad range of circumstances where it's just not useful. But the times when it is are handy enough.


Just about the only thing I'd consider taking this on is a Con-crazy Summoner Hell-bent on being the biggest possible sack of hit points for her eidolon, taking both the extra hit points for herself and her eidolon. Or maybe if you really want extra skill points on top of whatever your class-specific special is.

Hm... I wonder if you could use it to boost two different energy resistances with the Paladin bonus? Eh, probably not.


phantom1592 wrote:

I can see where the player is coming from, and I'd be annoyed too. I'm 6' tall... I'm sitting in room that has an 8' ceiling. When I reach up, I can touch the 8' ceiling without issue. If I had a 3' sword on the end of my hand, 10' above me is quite simply not high enough to be 'safe.'

However I beleive the RAW ruling is how the game was designed. but there are MANY cases where the 'rules' get in the way of common sense. It either needs to be 'house ruled' or flown as is to keep ocnsistency...

Still, I can understand why the player was annoyed by the ruling.

On the other hand, would your attack be nearly as accurate if you were tickling the target's toes with the very tip of your sword rather than dashing right up to the bugger and bashing 'em somewhere you can get more leverage and further within your range of motion? Much easier to say no.


What are the rules for multi-wielding multi-handed weapons, anyways? Never could figure that out.


Or just have them use a different slot. Ring, headband, or amulet make sense.


Or a Goblin Vivisectionist quadruple-wielding handguns via Multiweapon Fighting with a tentacle to reload as a free action through Rapid Reload.

And as far as I can tell, it's perfectly legal.


Short version:
Typically, you lose three or four levels' spell progression on either side of the rail for taking Mystic Theurge (usually making it a bad idea). However, this being D&D, there are usually ways around that sort of thing. So...

1) Is there any way to take MT all the way such that you can get 9th-level spells on one side or the other by level 18?

2) More importantly, are there any other classes that can let you continue your dual-progression once you reach MT10?


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