Oggron's page

I can recommend the setting book 'Into the Darklands' for this.
That was one of the things I bought for my brother along with the first two 'second darkness' AP's a few years back. Gave him the 'gift of gaming' for him and his university flatnates. He studied environmental sciences back then so we had a lot of discussion as to monster ecology. Vestigial eyes were discussed, changes in pigmentation, skin translucency, bioluminescence, the kinds of micro-organisms that formed the lowest rung on the food chain and the prevailence of scavenging organisms.

Wikipedia has a pretty good list of Cave dwelling critters, and some good links to more info on this. But I'll summarize for those who want a quick starting point.

Underground critters can be divided into Troglofauna and Stygofauna. The former living in dry cave systems and the latter in underground rivers and such.

Keeping the Troglo / Stygo prefix the same (Denoted by X) they are then divided into:

1) X - philes
These complete a large part of their life cycle underground but are exposed enough to surface tunnels to have retained the features to allow them to life on the surface. Many species of chiropteran (Bats) are the classic example of this.
(Due to its proximity and number of accessable surface passages, Nar-voth creatures would largely be this type)

2) X - xenes
These creatures are known as 'cave guests' and can spend a part of their life cycle underground, but they are not adapted to survive their entirely. Hibernating mammals such as bears are an example of this.
(These are the sort of beasties you'd find guarding the surface passageways)

3) X - bites
These are the archetypal subterranian creature and the kind that spends their entire life cycle underground. Usually descended from X-philes, these are the ones like the pale cave salamander or the eyeless cave fish whose lack of exposure to the surface ecology causes them to adapt in weird and wonderful ways.
(classic example of this are the Troglodytes which were once lizardfolk who fled underground and adapted, and this also factors in the various crotters that come up from the lower levels)

Recommend Serpents skull. It takes em out of their comfort zone and shows them something new. Plus, if your a GM who likes to customise and tweak adventures, the chapters i've run have all been good for that.

Something that brings the 3.5 Warlock over (If not in name) would get my money and endorsement. Warlock was my favorite class.

Don't really think we need another Arcane caster.

Personally I always kinda liked the Dragon Shaman. Especially the Flavor and some of the Mechanics like the Draconic Aura and the Totem. Though strangely not the Dragon part. Someday I think I must be very odd to be a non-Dracophile on an RPG board. I think that something along these lines would work for the 'missing' something that the proposed 'oracular druid/shaman' class. Fully embrace the Animus/Totema theme rather than just dipping its toes in like the Barbarian Archetype. Get some Aura's, Rituals, 'Rain dances' etc. Have a rechargeable divine power source (Totem) for abilities like the 'divine pool' (Spirit Token) idea and wild shaping. Throw in some of the Talents I posed before.

Theres a couple of 'Inventor' or 'Gadgeteer' 3pp ideas knocking around. Maybe a class that takes advantage of the frontier tech being developed in Alkenster and Quantium, or the Alien tech harvested from Numeria. Something that masters the Craft feats and that allows you to make stuff quicker, cheaper and better. A talent tree based around different types of things like Golems or other constructs would also be fun. A clockwork/steam-powered companion or familiar maybe?
Finally towards later levels they'd maybe get some sort of 'prototype' or 'alien' weapon profficiencies for wielding tech like the Gnome weapons or the kinds of tech hinted at in the Mi-Go article in Carrion Crown.

After that your gonna be revisiting old 3.5 and 3pp stuff...

Gonna try not to do the cliched grumpy 3am rant here guys.
But what's with all this talk of Pathfinder 2nd Ed and Dnd 5e?
Didn't we go through all this hype and drama with 4e not that long ago? Weren't we all annoyed that 3.5ed got scrapped in favor of something new and ultimately unworthy as a successor. If your like our group, til late 2009 we'd pretty much despaired over tabletop rpg's new content. We spent years and the one after playing 3.0/3.5/d20modern/true20/OGL/homebrew alternatives, because we thought that what was the point of investing in a new system where odds are that the Market pressure would force us to invest in yet another system every 3-5 years. Then Paizo came along and after watching it mature for a year I finally convinced my players to invest in it. I told them this system was for us, the discarded fans, that it was the true future of the game.
>3.75 Ed I heard a games store owner call it, and it convinced me.

Now what? We got 5e on the horizon and I'm getting the vibe that some people thing Pathfinder 2.0 is in order. Why? Didn't one of the most successful playtests in history finish less than 3 years ago? Is the current system so broken that power creep renders it unplayable? Are we not getting the best diversity of products? The best designers writing them? Has Paizo's offerings grown stale? Does this system need overhauling?

No.

Can we please stop speculating on a future edition war? We don't need a new edition every 3-5 years. We don't even need to be talking about one for another 3-5 years. You really thing the games going to get less fun? Or dated so quickly? The handful of AP's and modules we can afford to own are enough to last our various groups for years. Let WoTc get scared and try and woo us back with their 'new' edition. Maybe it's revolutionary, maybe it's regressive. Doesn't mean the rpg community wants it. There's pfrpg fans enjoying their game, and theres (one would assume) 4e fans enjoying their game. Who wants to fork out another few hundred bucks getting down with a new edition when they have a system in it's creative renaissance that they enjoy right now.

For those that look forward to 5e, enjoy the suspense. Meantime I'm gonna be enjoying the present. Maybe in a few years time I'll be reading a review and shaking my head at the flame war taking place in the comments page. Then I'll close the tab, and buy Pathfinder AP#73 and wonder then whether it's too soon to be talking about Pathfinder 2.0 .

Looking good there Spectre :)

Food for thought here.
Until about three years ago I thought girl gamers were urban legends, passed down from player to player throughout the ages. But having met and gamed with a few now, I reckon more should done to encourage these 'statistical anomalies'.

Typically gaming can be be very much a thing to do with the guys. Which lets face it, the sausage fest gets old at times. Too many testosterone fueled egos and cliches at the table. It can be intimidating or downright annoying to any new player. Don't think that gender should have anything to do with it. But if it does, then we maybe all need to grow up a little and be more aware of how to encourage female gamers.

That said, I'm told I'm an impartial and wrathful GM. Smiting with impunity (always wanted to use that word in a sentence). Pit traps and falling boulders don't tend to be sexist.

Huh? Thought I'd skipped a year for a second there.

Theres actually quite a few undead that retain skills and skill ranks.
The suffix 'Lord' tends to let ya get the best of both worlds there. (zombie lord, skeleton lord etc). Of course then theres Ghouls, Draugr and Wights. All of which I've used in wrecks and ghost ships over the years. The low CR makes en ideal.

But hey, does anyone remember Ibexians? Also called Goatmen? Or Gruffs.
Used em in a game once in a Chaos beastmen kinda vein (was into warhammer at the time). After reading the dresden files I reckon they'd work as bigger badass cousins to the Fey Satyrs. Then apply the giant template every time they get 100 years older.
Mighr be cool in a campaign where you defeat a bunch of em every bow and again, and their bigger brothers seek you out on occasion. And their bigger brothers? Huge greataxe anyone (goes to stat up).

Incidentally, has anyone ever statted up a forum troll? XP