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Akata

Odraude's page

Goblin Squad Member. Pathfinder Campaign Setting Subscriber. Pathfinder Society Member. 6,226 posts. No reviews. 1 list. 1 wishlist. 2 Pathfinder Society characters.


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Take them to a strip club. :p

Or, if you dont like the smell of sweat and shame, get him/her WizWar. Very fun game with awesome rules.


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I will never understand the draw to Doctor Who.


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I like Pathfinder but I need a break from it. ACG really has me bummed and I think I'm going to hold off on purchasing anything till that is sorted.


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I will never understand Cricket.


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Is this similar to the Technology rules in Paizo's Technology Guide?


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Or to make fun of others that don't share our opinion...

...that is the Paizo forum way, right? :p

(I jest, of course)


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But... I like Castrovel...


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I have never heard of the term beach ball good, but I'm glad I've now heard about it.


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Wiggz wrote:
Krathanos wrote:
Chalk up another vote for a dragon-centric AP. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think we still haven't had a Dragon BBEG, which is a crying shame.

But hey - we've got Robo-Gods!

Maybe they should do a 'transformer' themed AP next, or one where the PC's go on a five year mission to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations...

This is a really good idea. I've been working on a planet hopping adventure for awhile now, especially with the Technology Guide out and about.


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Lol wanking


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I'm not married to the term, though I'm not exactly offended either.

I've always said Arcadians honestly.


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Dragon78 wrote:
It is not like we will be forced to use these new versions of the classes Odraude:)

The unchained summoner is already being billed as a fix. Listening to the GenCon video, they remark that the summoner is broke. So, given the option of the "broken" original class and the new fix, which one are GMs more likely to use?

Either way, it sounds like they are keeping the customization and just limiting it a bit more. Which is a fine compromise and better than just another animal companion. So we'll have to see in the final product.


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Lemmy wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
And then there are the other posts with almost equally unpleasant language and accusations of incompetence or other insults, those are even more common.

While I never threw any personal insult against any member of the Paizo staff, I'll admit that I have often being a bit too vocal about my displeasure with Paizo's design policy. This year has been way too frustrating for me to contain my words.

But in my defense, seeing the erratas kicking martials in the teeth all the time, while caster/martial disparity grows more and more with each book, it's really difficult for me not to doubt Paizo's ability and/or interest in making Pathfinder a more balanced game. Especially when they continuously refuse to acknowledge the problems with game balance.

By now, I'm convinced that they either don't care or are just not very good at it.

For as long as the devs claim that Exploiter Wizard is fine, but a general Dex to damage feat is "too good even for Mythic", I can't help but question their competence at balancing game mechanics.

Am I being harsh? Yes... But I'm not lying or exaggerating.

I actually don't think the exploiter wizard is unbalanced. But I also think we need a dex to damage feat so...

Or at least a feat that allows damage to light weapons to keep two weapon fighting competitive with two handing.

Martials actually got a lot of good stuff in this book. It's just there is so much bad editing that you really don't know the full intent of some of the options.

Only things j don't like is Slashing Grace, the Paladin feature turned feat (which is more an issue with an FAQ) , and charmed life.


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My biggest worry is that the editing issue is going to continue with Occult Adventures, seeing that GenCon will be earlier next year. Which means more of a rush to push it I'd imagine.


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Rysky wrote:
Liz Courts wrote:
Dragonrider?
Dragonrider!

DRAGONRIDER!!!


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Rysky wrote:
Odraude wrote:
darkwarriorkarg wrote:
We went from Torag to Erastil dysfunction...
If you want, we can make this about how Iomedae is the epitome of Lawful Stupid now :)
No she's A%@@$%& Good.. With an appreciation for TranceStep appearantly.

Poe-tay-toe, poe-tah-toe

:p


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A lot of this sounds really cool. I'm still worried about the eidolon for the summoner being a mess of homogeneous options, but I'll hold off on that worry until later.


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Alexander Augunas wrote:
Odraude wrote:
Interesting. Any of this fit into dieselpunk settings?

See above. It assumes Industrial Revolution / Roaring 20s, but it should fit your needs perfectly. Dario and I based our flavor after cult-famous scientists like Tesla, but the style is purposefully between WWI and WWII.

You'd have to ignore most of the artwork in the book and say it looks like your own stuff, but there's nothing specifically stopping it from being diesel, and it would work well enough flavored as such. We define the driving power source, immateria, as being "any mundane natural force," of which diesel power certainly applies.

I can most certainly dig that. I was just complaining about a lack of dieselpunk in Pathfinder so this will fit nicely.


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darkwarriorkarg wrote:
We went from Torag to Erastil dysfunction...

If you want, we can make this about how Iomedae is the epitome of Lawful Stupid now :)


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Liz Courts wrote:

Silence doesn't necessarily mean the devs aren't listening—there is a lot on everybody's plate, and getting new product out the door is just one of them, along with everything else that goes into making the products that you all spend your hard-earned cash on. We can't please everybody all the time, and as has been pointed out, not everybody is in agreement over the kind of rules to add to the game.

Criticism is fine. We welcome it, and we listen to it.

But when those words are accompanied with personal attacks and insults, it is not helpful to having any sort of meaningful conversation. The message is tainted, and any point of view you're trying to pass along is lost in needless hostile language.

We're all better than that.

Tell us of your complaints—if you feel there are editing errors, mechanical flaws, poor production quality, whatever—we are listening. But don't resort to saying that people should be fired, should be hit, punished, or otherwise imply physical violence to get your point across. It is not needed, nor is that kind of behavior welcome on the boards.

I understand that things get busy. Totally feel you on that. And people being jerks sucks. As much as i complain, i at least try and not be insulting in my criticism. But seeing a quick, three sentence post saying something along the lines of "We are sorry and looking into it " would let people know and at least put some minds at ease. What you posted is exactly what I've been waiting for. And it doesn't even have to be that long. People just want to know that the devs are listening, even if it's just three sentences stickied in General Discussion.

Anyways, thanks for this post as it's what I've been waiting for.


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Gnomezrule wrote:
Odraude wrote:

Honestly, I feel like there will never be a good, official Dex-to-Damage feat in Pathfinder. Feats like this cement that in this instance, the devs are unwilling to change this design philosophy, no matter how much evidence is brought up.

May as well give up and hope a 3PP comes up with something. Only thing more disappointing than this is the lack of dev response about the editing of the ACG.

It's getting harder and harder to defend Paizo these days. It really is.

Or a player cements his or her opinion that differs from the dev (and other players) that such an option needs to be limited and not open ended or that it would make DEX even more of a super stat than it already is.

If you are set that Dex to Damage is not game breaking and you want it spread wider in your games. Create a second feat that gives dex to damage with finessible weapons. Or make finesse as it is a weapon property of the current finessible weapons and at your table "Weapon Finesse" grants dex to damage.

"Do it yourself" is a hackeneyed excuse that doesn't contribute anything. That's great for when I GM, but what if I play with another GM that doesn't allow that? Or, heaven forbid, PFS, where I can't bring house rules in? What do I do now? That's why people want an official version and have brought enough evidence to show that it's not unbalanced. While the opponents haven't had the same evidence forward, mathematical or anecdotal. So it feels like no matter what evidence and politeness we use, their minds will never change and we'll never see what we want. Hence the frustration that nobody is listening.

Also gnomes do, in fact, rule :)


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I wish Dragon78 were here. He'd say something optimistic and cheer me up today. :)


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Chengar Qordath wrote:
Zwordsman wrote:
stuff

I'm sure there are plenty of reasons why the ACG came out as a poorly-edited mess of a book. Yes, there are publication schedules to worry about, and the need to turn a profit in a reasonable timescale. Releasing it for GenCon was probably very important for Paizo's profit margin on the book.

However, whatever the reasons are, they don't change the fact that the ACG is poorly-edited and full of mistakes.

That is true. And patching feats like Slashing Grace with another, weaker feat from a different suppliment was a poor choice and really poured salt on the wounds.


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Yes


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Clearly, there's still enough devs against Dex to Damage that we still don't have a good feat. And looking at the current mediocre options, we probably never will. We may as well accept that and homebrew it. Or play another game where we don't have that problem.

I'd rather buy a PDF that doesn't require a great deal of errata. Yes, it can be updated. But I don't want to buy a rushed or incomplete product. I want something that has the quality that I've come to expect from Paizo. I don't give low quality when I work and I don't accept low quality from anyone. Not even my own family. It's how I was raised. Always give 100% work and get 100%. I can accept some issues here and there, but there's a point where the number of issues makes buying a product not worth it. Luckily, for me at least, I haven't had issues like this since Ultimate Combat/Magic.

While there isn't a history of editing issues this bad (even with UC and UM), it still worries me because there hasn't been a statement regarding any of them. Except for that hidden post you just linked for me, which I wouldn't have even known about if you didn't link it to me. Any change in quality for the worse will give any invested customer worries, even with a long history of failr good products.

The silence about it is what worries me. Surely they know, but do that even care? Are they looking into it or are they focused on the Monster Codex and finally getting the Strategy Guide out? Some form of "We're sorry and looking into it" would be nice and short to type. But we don't even have that. And all this after a large position change leaves one even more worried about the future of Paizo. Don't get me wrong, I like Rogue Eidilon. But after getting hyped from his posts, then seeing the mess that was ACG, I am a bit worried now. Maybe I have no right to be worried and things will be cool from here on now. But until a dev says they are looking at it, I am very worried.

At the very least, the Technology Guide was good.


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Interesting. Any of this fit into dieselpunk settings?


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GenCon books have always had issues, though none quite to this level. Haven't seen editing issues this bad since the Ultimate Magic/Combat combo. What worries me is that with the turnover, Paizo felt like the product should still be pushed out by GenCon. And I feel the book suffered greatly from it. That's why I am very worried about this. It may be one book, but it was a book that people looked forward to. And it's editing is so bad that even the title is incorrect. Which, to their credit, they apologized for. But that's the only word we've heard from them about the editing. No other apologies beyond that.

I'm really glad I didn't waste $40 on the hardcover, because there are a lot of angry gamers at my FLGS that returned their book for store credit after they read the book. And most of them spent it on the competition. That's a bit scary.


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Deadmanwalking wrote:

I agree with Alexander Augunas in the strongest possible terms, especially that last post. Politeness is a wonderful thing, and something we need more of directed at the people at Paizo on these forums than we have at the moment.

As for 'blunt honesty', in my experience, it is very possible to be honest about the issues you have with the game without being rude or insulting, making the claims of 'blunt honesty' in regards to such behavior ring more than a bit hollow.

As someone who is bluntly honest, it is generally an exuse to be an a!+%%~& about our opinion. It's true :)

Deadmanwalking wrote:
Odraude wrote:
May as well give up and hope a 3PP comes up with something. Only thing more disappointing than this is the lack of dev response about the editing of the ACG.
Eh. It's only been a couple of weeks and they've been pretty busy, give 'em some time.

A stickied thread that says "We know about the editing issues and are looking into errata in the future" would be nice. And easy too. But at this rate, we don't know if the errata is even being looked at, let alone when it's coming. Paizo used to be a lot more transparent and as a fan, it is disappointing when their worst edited product since Ultimate Combat/Magic is pushed and there is no word about it from the devs. At least saying "We are looking into it. Apologies for this mistake" would put me at ease.

Not that this matters for Dex to Damage, since the dev are so adamantly against it that they ignore all evidence to the contrary and instead give us mediocre or nonsense options (dex to damage for a bastard sword, but not daggers? really).

I have little faith in Occult Adventures and honestly, I think I'll skip out and wait for the second printing. Or more than likely, for it to be on the SRD with the editor's notes on what errata should be.


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The ACG has a lot of great options. Many of the bad options are there because of editing issues. I really wish they didn't rush this out to GenCon. Honestly, I'd rather they push back a hardcover that is well-edited, than push a low-quality product. I'm very worried in the direction Paizo is going and am a lot more hesitant to buy their products now.


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Honestly, I feel like there will never be a good, official Dex-to-Damage feat in Pathfinder. Feats like this cement that in this instance, the devs are unwilling to change this design philosophy, no matter how much evidence is brought up.

May as well give up and hope a 3PP comes up with something. Only thing more disappointing than this is the lack of dev response about the editing of the ACG.

It's getting harder and harder to defend Paizo these days. It really is.


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That would certainly be interesting. I'd dig that honestly.


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I have no problem with them. I recently had a player that wanted to play an awakened bear cleric. I basically built it with the Race Builder and allow them to use it. Tiny and smaller (or Larger and bigger) might pose some issues. But generally, nothing too bad aside from monstrous stealth bonuses for Tiny people, or higher than normal damage dice for Large people.


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OmNomNid wrote:
Odraude wrote:
As an aside, what is a good example of third party companies that do some of these genres? Like steampunk or future or my favorite dieselpunk.

For Steampunk the Pure Steam Setting is a most.

If you like magitech, go with Thunderscape.

Little Red Goblin Games produced the wonderful sci-fi setting Necropunk (though note it's more in the line of Dune than say Star Wars).

There is also a setting called Conquests of the Universe being made by Tripod that will be a space-opera setting with psionics (which I know you don't like greatly but the space rules should be worth it).

Broken Earth is a great setting to get a Fallout feel.

Also, Rouge Genius Games has a series of classes (with pulp rules) called the Anarchistic Adventures series. They also have a apocalyptic setting (someday) known as Warlords of the Apocalypse in development.

I'll have to check those out. For the record, I do like psionics, just not spellpoints.

Shame there isn't more dieslpunk stuff out there.


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21) Similar to #7, become the first "something". This is usually easier in primordial settings. Become the first murderer and turn into a god of murder, or the first to run away from death and become the goddess of undeath.


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As an aside, what is a good example of third party companies that do some of these genres? Like steampunk or future or my favorite dieselpunk.


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The Crusader wrote:

I guess the real question is: After they blanded Erastil, after they watered down Torag, (and anticipating that they'll sand off any sharp edges that Abadar might have) what's left that separates one Paladin from another? It's not about aligning yourself with a deity, because you can only act one way. So, you're really just choosing domains, at this point (which only matters for Sacred Servants...).

I guess we're all just Sarenrae worshipers whether we want to be, or not...

And did somebody upthread say the devs wanted to change Ragathiel's obediences, too??!?

This is a little hyperbolic. The Erastil one especially did have the higher chance of alienating female gamers and making them more uncomfortable. It'd be like having a LG deity that's okay with slavery, then wondering why all your black players don't want to play with you anymore. The Erastile change was needed in my opinion.


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Like the title suggests, I wanna brainstorm some awesome ways to describe how a mortal becomes a god.

1) The mortal sneaks into the Boneyard and erases their name from the book of life.

2) Deicide, which curses the murderer with becoming the new god.

3) Devouring the flesh and blood of a god in its entirety.

4) All gods are dreamers that sleep in the plane of dreams to untether themselves from the physical world and become omnipotent. You can find "your bed " in the Dreamlands, fight your way in, then rest for all eternity to become a god.


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Orthos wrote:
Now let's be fair, Kratos is clearly playing in a setting where corporeal afterlives are the norm and there is a physical entrance/exit to the afterlife on the Material Plane.

Sounds like my setting :)


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Hehe clever.

169) A planet where the atmosphere is deadly, save for valleys below sea level where life ekes out an existence.


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Dragon78 wrote:
It would be nice to see more done with the Astral and Ethereal.

I genuinely like it when you post, because it's always positive and optimistic.


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Tacticslion wrote:

While I disagree with Thelemic_Noun's assertion that one needs stats in that case (at least without reasonable limits on the word 'needs'),

Kthulhu wrote:

Nah, you just apply the +2 modifier to the ally god's +infinity, and compare it to the enemy god's DC of infinity.

End result: The winning god is decided by which one winning makes a better story/adventure.

... is equally invalid.

So, let's reiterate what we've learned:

What we've learned wrote:

FOR CERTAIN GROUPS, STATS FOR GODS ARE BAD IDEAS. THOSE GROUPS SHOULD AVOID HAVING THEM.

FOR OTHERS, THEY ARE USEFUL - AND EVEN 'NECESSARY' - FOR THE SAKE OF GOOD GAMING AND GOOD STORY TELLING.

SO LET US REMOVE THE CONVERSATION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT THEY SHOULD HAVE STATS, AS THAT IS BEYOND THE SCOPE OF THIS THREAD.

This is the only thing that has been established - and established repeatedly - for the last two pages.

Come on, everybody. This is a thread about peoples' homebrew rules. If you've any comment other than, "I don't see the need for them personally." please feel free to make it. If you haven't noted that you don't need rules like this, but would like, to, excellent. If you have rules that you'd like to note for others to look at, such as Kthulu's last post, wonderful.

But currently we're dragging a guy's thread down; insinuating that he either play your way or he's doing it wrong is a wasted effort. Stop it. The opinion on the subject is noted, but it's now time to move on.

Please critique the rules, not the need for them. Thanks!

(That said, I don't know how it's only now become just apparent that Kratos is a dirty power-gamer. I mean, dude's abusing the rules all over the place. And man... all those dirt roads, and blood. And he never bathes. Ugh.)

+1


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Kain Darkwind wrote:

Well, they do now, anyways. Feel free to offer thoughts. If you have non-ridiculous builds (Animal/Nature Oracle, infinite spell loops are ignored, etc) that can beat them, please point out the weakness to me so I can determine if it's something a deity ought to be able to counteract.

Full thread here.

** spoiler omitted **...

Found Mythender in Golarion here, if you want some inspiration.


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ElementalXX wrote:
Hey! i just noticed, Kratos is a munchkin

So is Elric of Melnibone clearly. Dirty dirty munchkins :p


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MMCJawa wrote:

I think you could use the chassis of Pathfinder to build a system for more science fiction settings. There are just a lot of holes right now in the rules that make it difficult. So presumably Advanced Genre/World Building/Ultimate Tech would need to fill those holes.

It would be also nice to have some sort of rules or just advice on how to dial back/up certain elements. I feel a low/no magic space setting and a high magic/high tech setting are going to have very different problems and needs, mechanics wise.

Definitely agree with this. 100 pages per era may barely be enough for detailed work, but would be good for laying the groundwork.


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Neongelion wrote:

You know, as much as a massive fan I am for mixing sci-fi with fantasy, I'm not sure I'd use Pathfinder for games that have no fantasy elements in it at all. At that point, if I wanted to do pure, unadulterated hard sci-fi, I'd just use another system like Traveller or Eclipse Phase or a more generic ruleset like Savage Worlds.

Now something like Rifts, on the other hand, would be cool. I despised the Rifts ruleset but I think its setting is pretty cool, if only to get inspiration for my homebrew setting (which is essentially the Shadowrun universe, several centuries after a gigantic apocalypse reverted the world to a medieval civilization but still have all these high-tech stuff lying around).

I'm of the opposite opinion, especially after the Technology Guide and multitude of 3PP companies that have made alternate genres out of the d20 system. I feel Pathfinder is robust enough to handle these rules additions with some work.


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ElementalXX wrote:
I find killing gods cool, should i feel bad? :/

You should. Chances are you are a dirty munchkin :p


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Feels like we want the same thing but with a different name :p


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LazarX wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
I was trying to come up with a better term and couldn't think of anything. Just using the common usage.
I'm pretty sure I'm not the only person who sees it as a derogatory term when it comes to defining game content.

>spends all thread pooping all over anyone that wants stats for deities

>gets offended by the word fluff

Okay then, time for sleep :)


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Bandw2 wrote:
Odraude wrote:
Dieselpunk
i just want this, so much this.

Mmhmm. Ever since I saw the Batman animated series from the 90's and the anime Metropolis, I've been in love with diesel/decopunk


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If fighting gods is fun for people, then let there be deity stats. I personally like the Pathfinder version of Mythender, which uses the mythic paths and is simple and more free form.

I'm on a tablet so I don't have the favorite for it. Hopefully someone can link it.

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