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Odraude's page

Goblin Squad Member. Pathfinder Society Member. 5,877 posts. No reviews. 1 list. 1 wishlist. 2 Pathfinder Society characters.

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One thing you should do is to make sure they don't build for one campaign theme (like, say they build for an urban campaign) then immediately switch the setting. You'll invalidate their builds, make them useless, and they will resent you for that. Instead tell them to build for a general adventure and emphasize the need for preparation. That should help them cope with surviving and not getting blind sided by the sudden change.

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Welp, today marks ten more days until I move in with my girlfriend down in Ft. Lauderdale. We found a pride center last time I was there. I definitely want to check it out once I am there for good.

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That might be one limiter in this, is that you'd need to advance the plot somehow with RP. Now, this can definitely be worked around by having multiple ways of advancing the plot. And of course, instead of having RP advance the plot, you could have it be there to add extra story and options for advancing the plot via adventuring, stealth, and combat. All are good options for roleplay.

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Agreed. If Absalom got anywhere close to the same treatment that Magnimar did, it would be freaking awesome. I loved the Magnimar book and use is all the time when making my own cities.

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I think it's boring and bland because there really isn't as much stuff on it as other areas. It has one city book from 3.5 and an excerpt in ISWG. Like with anything, it can be made interesting with cool material and actual support.

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I'm a bit more with Coridan on this I guess. Varisia is cool and all, but in many respects, it has a lot of familiar elements you see in other settings, such as Faerun and Greyhawk. That's its whole point. Nothing wrong with that, mind you. But, I can always get the familiar from plenty of other DnD settings. With places like Vudra and Arcadia, those type of settings don't exist, at least, not in the amount that a setting like Varisia does. So, I'd love to see more light on those places since it would be something new, fresh and exciting. maybe leave Varisia to modules or PFS. I don't know.

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magnuskn wrote:
captain yesterday wrote:
mostly i think the "Lack" of roleplaying in higher level stuff is partially attributed to GM burnout, by the time you get to the higher stuff you've already been at it for at least 6 months and you just want to get it over with.

Constant combat encounters for the last three modules do much more to "want to get it over with" than RP sessions. Rather the contrary, those RP sessions are what motivate a GM and a party to enjoy the entire AP.

Seriously, that assertion of yours makes no sense. :-/

For you. Not all GMs feel the same way. Some of us like the climax of heavy combat in the modules and don't get burned out because of that. These are your opinions and don't cover the opinions of all GMs. Certainly not me.

More RP encounters is fine by me. Especially if they are tie ins to combat, even as an alternative to combat.

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A lot of passive aggressiveness in this topic.

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From what I've seen of the basic set, it looks boring and uninapired. Options seem homogenized. Honestly, I think 13th Age does a better job of being 5th Ed than 5th Ed. But honestly, I don't agree with people that think simplified automatically means better.

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Drock11 wrote:

Out of all the things about Golarion's life and death cycle (and a few other settings) this might be the one thing I most absolutely loath from them. It just stinks on so many levels. It doesn't seem to be any kind of reward for a good life lived at all. It's more like the forces of the multiverse are using mortals as sort of playthings or as tools to fuel their own agendas. In a lot of ways it can be downright cruel.

In any game I run I change it so that at most non-evil petitioner that lose their memories do so as a temporary coping mechanism for dying and to ease the process of going to the afterlife, and even then they retain some important memories of their past lives, and they will always be able to know they have and recognize their past loved ones and friend on an instinctual level if nothing else.

I also have all the good outsiders and planes are under a agreed on pact that allows any non-evil petitioner to live in their realms with other friends and loved ones from that plane as long as they are reasonable well behaved, and they get more leeway than other outsiders. That way nobody is kicked out and forever barred from being with their loved one in the afterlife because one was NG while the other was LG or similar situation.

Any good petitioner is also never forced to become another outsider or be absorbed into their plane or be used in another way for fuel the ethos they represent, unless they choose to do so. They are allowed to retain their identities. They also retain a form that closely resembles what they had in life, so they aren't turned into birds or anything like that.

Of course none of this applies to evil petitioners. That is part of the price of living a life of evil, as things like demons and devils are supposed to be cruel and use others as tools on the most profound levels.

Man you REALLY wouldn't like my setting then :) Souls not only lose their memories, but they lose them in order of newest to oldest in real time, until they have spent an entire life time waiting in judgement. Then they are reincarnated.

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Umbranus wrote:
Kwauss wrote:

This is the problem I'm having perpetually with the forum people or PFS people in general. You have an ability whose name implies getting things wet, and has a mechanism that would involve getting things wet, but since 'it doesn't say it does', it doesn't happen. This attitude is more appropriate for a MMORPG or playing 4E than playing a RPG like PF. As a GM, I'm not going to let you put out a campfire using Drench without it looking like you dumped a huge bucket of water on it (and generating mud).

"No wait," says the PFS player, "this book states it puts out fires, not that it makes things wet."

My issue is that if the designers didn't want it to be putting fires out by dropping water all over it, it would be named 'extinguish'. That's applying a modicum of common sense by reading the description of the ability, and in direct conflict with the 'it doesn't say it does' mentality. I'm concerned it's influencing a whole generation of gamers negatively.

So you would allow a water elemental (or druid in the form of one) to akt as a source for drinking water?

Or to irrigate a field?

My singular time playing PFS, the GM wouldn't let me light a torch with a fire elemental, since it cannot do that according to the rules. So I'm inclined to agree with Kwauss. I'm okay with players at the very least, using it to make small amounts of water.

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Been doing some work on my setting, especially with astrology. Since astrology and numerology were huge parat of the American indigenous people's cultures, I felt that it was important to play off of this. With that, I have various important cycles and numbers that are holy to the ancients in my setting.

  • The Number Six: The number 6 plays a large part in the cycle of the native's religion. The current age is known as the Sixth World, and the last five ended after six full death cycles (~8000 years). There are also six death gods that are rotated through before the cycle begins again. For history, the Kalikal empire (Mayan inspired empire similar to a Mesoamerican Atlantis) was founded by six families. Also according to parts of their religion, the body is made up of six vessels of energy.

  • The Number Twenty: Probably the most important number in my setting. The ancient Kalikal Empire used a vigesimal numbering system and in addition, was made up of twenty city-states. The Kalikal empire also tracked the movement of 20 heavenly bodies in the night sky. The current natives acknowledge twenty gods and assigns them to each god. The cycle of death deities lasts for 8000 years (20x20x20). There are twenty nodes of spiritual energy in the human body that sync with the six vessels from above. Finally the natives have a solar calender made up of 18 months, each one containing 20 days (and an additional five days of darkness).

  • The NumberFive: The number 5 is an evil number of bad omens. During each solar year, there are 18 twenty-day months followed by five days of darkness and evil. There have already been five destroyed worlds, and each one is said to have been destroyed in five days. And finally, an omen to some natives at least, there are five colonies that own land that was once theirs.

That's all I have for this. I plan on sharing some of the races soon, including the race that ruled over the Kalikal empire. They have an interesting ability called Divine Vigesimality, which I'll leave to your imaginations :)

Also, unrelated, but how unbalanced would it be if a race could cast deathwatch at-wll?

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James Jacobs wrote:
eldergod0515 wrote:

Q: If I were to ask you the absolutely most brilliant question - more so than any question you've ever been asked on this thread - what *EXACTLY* would that question be?

Follow-up: And what would be the answer to that question?


Clicking this at 330 am with my headphones on scared the s#~% out of me. :p

A lot of people ask you what AP you really want to do. I'd like to know, what's one (or a set of) AP that you want to avoid like the plague?

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KSF wrote:

Interview with the 5th ed designers about the sexuality and gender diversity section of the rules.


That's cool of them. Still not getting 5ed though :p

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Tels wrote:
I regret asking that question now...

Honestly, I didn't want to bring it up. But LazarX is misreading xavier and making him out to be the bad guy, and I don't like that.

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LazarX wrote:
xavier c wrote:
I did not say anything about Feminism. james said he would like to see all of the male superheroes be marginalized and to me that is not gender equality

Interesting valuation. James said that he'd like to see all superheroes gender bent, and to you it meant margainalising the males by turning them into women. I guess in your eyes for the women, it'd be a tradeup.

And you'd be right. Female superheros have had it rough. they're typically hostage bait, or pitted against silly opponents until recently. hardly anyone sees them as anything other than objects of tititilation. In other words, hardly characters to be taken seriously.

The fact that this question comes up shows how far we have to go.

Actually, what he said was that superheroes could be genderbent and that the men would be put into margainalizing positions

I'd not mind seeing pretty much ALL the superheroes do a gender change, and make a world where the vast majority of superheroes are women and the superheroes who are men were mostly regulated to sidekick or eye-candy or marginalized status.

Xavier didn't assume that. It was explicitly stated in the quote (bolded for emphasis). And while JJ did say it to get people thinking, it's hard to convey that over the internet (much like sarcasm and humor). So he took it as it was stated.

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Tangent101 wrote:

Okay. Here's one problem I have with the d20 system - it de-emphasizes roleplay and increases the importance of die-rolling.

Let us take, for instance, Wrath of the Righteous. At the very start when your players start interacting with the first roleplaying encounter, you're given diplomacy rolls and what you need to roll to achieve that.

That's it.

Now, an experienced GM may very well say "screw the dice" and allow a passionate argument or dialogue to prevail in convincing the encounter to do what the players are interested in. But that's not what the encounter says. It says "make diplomacy checks."

And you could make an impassioned argument that is logical, well thought-out, and takes 15 minutes... and then the GM has you roll, you roll a 1, and it's wasted effort. A smart GM who has a few games under his belt may ignore that. But far too many GMs for my taste are of the mindset "the dice roll what they roll, and I can't fudge results."

I want roleplaying. Roleplaying! I want my players to go through an encounter and have that plaintive little voice ask "can he do that?" I want my players to prevail without ever having drawn a sword. I want them to pull an Asimov in "Foundation and Empire" and defeat the Mule in a verbal argument within the first page of 11 pages of debate and dialogue.

And I want Paizo to take that chance and create that product. I think they would be better for it. And I think we as GMs and players would be better for this.

On the other hand, there are those of us that aren't really all that charismatic, or can't speak well when on the spot. I'm no thespian. I'm best described as a gruff, cantankerous old man. That's why I like the Diplomacy roll. It allows me to play someone charismatic, or simple interact with people without penalizing me for my inability to be charismatic.

But that's why I (and most GMs I've enocuntered) give bonuses to people who have roleplayed their way really well. That way, you reward those that try to use Diplomacy well with penalize those that have the inability to.

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The Evil Queen wrote:
Odraude wrote:
The Evil Queen wrote:

Odraudy, serious as ever...

You better get used to my online-cosmoplay already or just ignore it.

And don't take it personal or so serious, I just like vain behavior and arrogance online behavior, much like you try to make fun of me in every single post you make towards me (good for making friends on here and gaining free favorite-points/hits). Its no coincidence my favorite characters of all time are Vega (SF), Zelos Wilder, The Riddler, Snievan (the last remnant), Zarbon (Dragonball), Maribelle (Fire Emblem), Tanya and Rain (MK) and Vanity Smurf.

Still, when I buy a copy of the bestiary, it's MY personal bestiary copy.

That all sounds like really s##&ty excuses for being a c%&+ to people.

How am I evil to people after calling lions and giraffe's boring?

Interesting way of looking at opinions you have!

It's the dismissive, elitist attitude you have towards anyone's responses. The point of this topic is to be a wishlist for what everyone wants. To share cool ideas with other people and speculate what's coming next. That means there are no bad ideas here that will some how ruin the Bestiary. If people want more animals, or dinosaurs, or demons, or whatever, then they should be able to express it here without your snide remarks about how bad the ideas are. Especially since you get so defensive when people do it to you. It's very hypocritical and not in the spirit of this topic.

The bestiaries are a product for the entirety of the fanbase, not just only for Sincubus/Ganasgh/Evil Queen/whatever. That means everyone gets to see the creature they like and may not like, but there's something in there for everyone. And that in itself is not going to ruin a product, because it's a product made for all of the fans.

Also, it takes a real narcissist to favorite their own posts with an alternate account.

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Insain Dragoon wrote:

That was a joke, but I added a winky face to show it more obviously :)

The sentences following it describe what I think would be easy for the devs to do if they don't decide to revamp the fighter. While such changes would not be as preferable as a real revamp, they would at least make the Fighter a significantly less terrible choice when compared to a Ranger, Paladin, Slayer, Brawler, Samurai, Cavalier, Bloodrager, revamped Monk (here's hoping), or Barbarian.

Winky face does indeed help. Me sleeping also helps :p

It just gets so tiresome to see an opportunity to improve the fighter with Pathfinder Unchained and it getting wasted on snide jabs at Paizo and the standard "fighter cant have nice things" pity-me-party comments. When instead there could be more ideas that could be thrown in to help the fighter. It's clear from the description of Pathfinder Unchained that they really want to take the feedback from the last six years and do the things people have been want them to do to the mechanics. I'd rather see our creative energies turned to brainstorming and ideas, rather than the standard self-serving cynical tripe that usually floods these threads.

Not saying you are doing that, of course. I just mean in general. Though this thread has been good so far.

Sleepy time now. The sun is up which means I go down. :p

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"Spoiling the pages of your bestiary," eh?

Way to once again be dismissive of what people like. That elitist attitude you have about other people's ideas is really annoying. Though I'm sure if we said your suggestions would spoil the bestiary, you'd suddenly play the victim.

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I'd be surprised if it wasn't Absalom honestly. It always felt weird, that it's been played up as like the analogue of the Free City of Greyhawk, but there haven't been large adventures that take place in there. I think there's really only been some PFS modules.

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I blame me. I'm just in a bad mood.

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James Jacobs wrote:
Tels wrote:
Have you ever noticed that if your avatar and Odraude's avatar were to be put side by side, it looks like they're roaring at each other?


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El Ronza wrote:
So, the Slayer is basically the Angel of Death, capable of Raining Blood down on his Necrophobic enemies? Guess I need to look at the class Piece By Piece, lest I end up Criminally Insane from the awesome. The rogue has been Reborn, and I like it, though I foresee an Epidemic of slayers in PFS when the book is released. I guess the base rogue is Expendable Youth now, one of the Skeletons of Society. Well, I'm part of the New Faith here - I like this class, and all its Seven Faces, which will allow me to spread Hate Worldwide. Cast Down the nonbelievers, Spill the Blood, and may your slayers find Serenity in Murder. Just be careful - with all that killing, they're likely to end up somewhere South of Heaven...

Marry me.

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Honestly, so far all the classes sound like they will be fun additions. I'll certainly hold final judgement for when I have the books, but I can't wait to roll up a Brawler, Swashbuckler, and Slayer.

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I thought we were moving the fighter related comments to the other topic?

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Absynthyne wrote:

We're all just having fun in our own way. And that's a pretty great thing.

Didn't you get the memo? People aren't allow to have fun in their own way. If your way deviates from the standard of a fanbase, clearly it is badwrongfun and you are a dirty munchkin for wanting to play something you like. Because playing something you like will surely interfere with another person, and that person can't have you having fun with something that they like, right?

Don't worry, it's not too late to save you. You can still be reeducated and get better, with time, effort, and plenty of support.


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Simon Legrande wrote:
You know that saying "a sufficiently advanced technology would be indistinguishable from magic"? Well, a sufficiently advanced lifeform would be indistinguishable from god.

What does a god need with a space ship?

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For the record, I never said point buy stat creation was bad. I use that all the time in PF over rolling. What I mean was full on point buy systems where you build an entire character. Things like HERO and GURPS.

JiCi wrote:

You guys make me laugh when you request a Mystic Theurge and an Arcane Trickster... when they're ALREADY Prestige Classes. Look, they cannot convert PrCs into actual classes, ok? So let them be...

Honestly, for missing classes? Hmmm...
- Artificer/Tinkerer: someone who can fabricate gadgets that duplicate spells. If that's problematic to you, pretty sure Numeria would have such a class amongst their ranks.

- Swordsage/Warblade/Crusader: Yes, I'm asking this, because I really liked how Tome of Battle was written and ruled. Look, the fighter is literally paling in comparison when it comes to "having something unique". These 3 classes made an awesome alternate fighter option. Tian Xia could be loaded with these right now. Basically, give the fighter spell-like abilities in the forms of unique attacks.

I dislike Prestige Classes in the core. I prefer having a character concept that doesn't require 6 levels of crappy multiclassing. Prestige Class that are more from a story line perspective (like in Paths of Prestige) are more my jam.

Beside, we already have the magus, the slayer/ninja, the bloodrager, and the myrmadarch that take the concepts of Prestige Classes (Eldritch Knight, Assassin, Dragon Disciple, Arcane Archer) and allow them to be playable right from the get go. Personally, I'd absolutely LOVE a Mystic Theurge, but for me, I have the Magister class from RGG.

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Apparently, in Inner Sea Gods, on pg 193, it mentions that gods can be killed not just by other gods, but also by "the will of extraordinarily powerful mortals".

Doesn't mean that they are doing deity rules, but it does at least leave open the idea to GMs to do that form of storytelling.

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That sounds awesome.

"You all know what spell I'm going to pick...."

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What's a good source for learning about the mathematics behind game design? Aside from college.

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Welcome to the state of the fantasy gaming fanbase.

You can always try running an online game. There's plenty of people (including myself) that'd be down with playing Iron Gods.

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JoeJ wrote:

What would be really nice would be a full Class Builder like the Race Builder in ARG.

Honestly, having played point buy systems, I can tell you that would really be easy to abuse and game. It's better to have advice that can help guide a GM make good judgement calls about class design.

Point buy systems can never beat experienced advice.

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I'm actually hoping that with the class building advice, I'll be able to use that to design the classes I wish. So that will be cool :)

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Only for things that deviate from the tradition Tolkien fantasy. Jade Regent had a similar reaction when it was announced.

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I wonder if Ashiel-senpai will notice me...

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But I like dice :(

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Gods don't require worship. So those gods are still around and still power, but since their religions are dead, they don't have clout they once had.

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Insain Dragoon wrote:

By that logic Clerics have no weaknesses.

Paizo does have a serious case of favoritism for Divine casters. The majority of them have the best saves in the game, have a d8 or higher hit die, are not restricted by armor, and have very powerful spells.

Divine casters and arcane casters have fairly different spell lists. While the cleric does have some powerful spells, many of their spells are buffing spells. Arcane full casters have a wider utility of spells that they can cast from. And the arcane caster that can use armor have altered spell lists to compensate for that.

And considering that divine casters were brought down in power from the 3.5 transistion, I'd hardly call divine casters their favorites.

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If you wanna rear a Behir, you better buy her drinks first! ZING!!

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DeciusNero wrote:
Odraude wrote:

Yeah, I am a little sad about how the momentum to Tian Xia lost steam after Jade Regent. At least we got some good modules in there. I just really would love to see more of the other countries fleshed out.

Which is sad. I'd love to see more done with Tian Xia; fantasy doesn't have to be just psuedo-western Europe. Fleshing out the continent was a great idea, and left me craving more. Really hope Paizo goes against the grain and gives us one starting out there.

Fantasy should be like assorted nuts - variety and choice.

Exactly. And people that wanted an Asian setting had to deal with these type of threads and comments.

"Great, we gotta deal with these weeabo settings that don't belong in a western setting."

"Why cant we have a separate setting for this? I don't want ninjas / samurai stretching my disbelief in a traditional western setting."

"If I wanted samurai , I'd play Legend of the Five Rings. "

And thus the cycle repeats itself. Because apparently people aren't allowed to have fun with options another person doesn't like.

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Jeven wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:

Yeah, the constant "It's just one AP! And we won't be publishing just science-fantasy stuff during these 6 months! And the next AP will be traditional fantasy! And the one after that! Promise!" feels like a band that released a conceptual album and now tries to placate the rabid traditionalists fans so that they won't go away.

Sure, you gotta make money for living and this is a turbo conservative corner of a conservative hobby. Still, disheartening.
So, except for Iron Gods AP and Distant Worlds, is there any other Paizo campaign stuff you actually like? Or is most of their stuff "turbo conservative" rubbish designed to please "rabid traditionalist fans"?

Rasputin Must Die! clearly ;)

No joke, though, that was probably one of the most well-written adventures of 2013. Even people that thought Paizo jumped the shark on that were like "Damn, that was pretty good".

As for the "rabid, traditionalist fans" comment, while it is hyperbole, it's sadly kind of true. Look through the forums and compare how many "Give us Numeria" topics there are vs "Don't ruin our fantasy with tech" and you'll see that more often than not, it's the traditional people making the fuss. Not us. Tian Xia was proof of that. So much vitriol and borderline racism in those topics. In fact, pretty much any time Paizo does something that is a divergence from the tradition, it brings on the waves of naysayers wary that their ideal fantasy setting is suddenly in peril.

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Gorbacz wrote:

I believe at lot of hangs on how good Iron Gods will be. Jade Regent, while not a bad AP at all, didn't really manage to get me excited about Dragon Empires (mostly because it spends half the AP away from Tian Xia).

Iron Gods dodges that bullet by getting us there and right away. And the author lineup is sweet. And Space Goddess Crystal is writing the final adventure. And the stars are right.

Yeah, I am a little sad about how the momentum to Tian Xia lost steam after Jade Regent. At least we got some good modules in there. I just really would love to see more of the other countries fleshed out. Especially the non-traditional ones you don't see in RPGs, like the ones based on SE Asian culture. Anti-weeaboos be damned!

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Exactly. We don't want one AP of support, then get abandoned for other things. I'd really like to see more products that "rattles the cages" as it will. Not replacing traditional modules and APs, but also not swept aside for them. I still have faith in Paizo for it, since Distant Worlds and Rasputin Must Die! showed that this isn't just a niche thing (as many would have you believe).

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Curmudgeonly wrote:

This is where we disagree. We've had several APs now that have broken "the mold"

Jade Regent - Asian themed
Skulls and Shackles - Pirate themed
Shattered Star - Traditional Fantasy
Reign of Winter - This one's all over the place
Wrath of the Righteous - Mythic
Mummy's Mask - Egyptian themed

I hope Iron Gods is amazing, and I hope they eventually make more that break the mold. But saying Paizo hasn't explored beyond traditional is nonsense.

If having an Asian, Egyptian, and Pirates setting is breaking the mold, especially given how many DnD adventures take place in those settings, we have a problem.

Though I do remember when Jade Regent was announced and how up in arms everybody was about how Paizo was ruining Pathfinder and they needed to stick with traditional fantasy and not "this weeabo crap". Replace weeabo with filthy tech and that's what it is.

It's just a bit disheartening that when we finally get an adventure that tries something different, it's always met with the same crowd that wants to keep the adventures from trying new things. Or decries it as ruining their fantasy. Or deem it just a phase and hope we don't get near enough the support traditional fantasy gets. Not saying YOU are, but the tone from others is here.

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boring7 wrote:
Odraude wrote:
CommandoDude wrote:
Thelemic_Noun wrote:
So Paizo seems to have a thing for not statting their deities

There's a very good reason for that

Paizo just wants players to know that, no - you CAN'T kill a god (because if it has stats, that means you can kill it). I mean this literally, Gods have only been defeated on a near permanent basis (except for Aroden, who is the exception)

That is the difference between a 10th tier mythic and a God, the Hero can always die, it just gets REALLY tough.

Lamashtu killed Curchanus when she was only a demon lord. Took his portfolio too. And being a bonafide demon lord requires you to be CR 26-30. Not impossible for PCs.

Let's just face facts. There are two groups of people. The first like the idea of killing gods. It takes them back to Birthright and mythologies where cultural heroes defeat the gods. The other thinks that you shouldn't kill gods. Gods are kind of the last ultimate thing left in the universe and should be unkillable unless the story wills it.

Both believe the other group is having BADWRONGFUN and are probably dirty little powergames/power hungry GMs.

Meanwhile, This is a thing.

Making up rules for the killing god part of RPG is too niche and causes too much pissing and moaning.

More to the point, vagueness and refusal to answer certain questions leave more wiggle-room in the metaplot and the Big Picture mechanics.

I can't really blame them for that, any more than I can blame them for not telling us where Nex is, What happened to Aroden, or Where in the world is Carmen SandiegoThe Axe of the Dwarvish Lords. These mysteries are tasty little seed pods that can grow full adventure paths sometime in the future.

idk, the pissing and moaning didn't stop Paizo from bringing out an Asian setting or firearms. God I remembered the borderline racism when Tian-Xia was announced.

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Curmudgeonly wrote:
Odraude wrote:
It's traditional enough that Gygax made a megadungeon themed on it. Not to mention dungeon delving into the unknown and Egypt practically go hand in hand. Egypt is almost synonymous with "dungeon crawl".

Gygax also wrote Expedition to the Barrier Peaks in 1980. By your logic, we should call Iron Gods traditional fantasy.

How long a certain theme has existed has no baring on it being traditional fantasy or not.

Look, I'm happy that Paizo is diversifying and giving everyone something to enjoy. I personally have no interest in Iron Gods and am looking forward to them returning to some traditional fantasy after going away from it for some time.

As a matter of fact, yes. It is traditional :) Along with City of the Gods.

A lot of books from the period of 0e/1e had aspects of fantasy and science in it. This was long before people latched on to Lord of the Rings and made that the bar that all settings had to be compared to. My point is, a return to what is deemed as "traditional" isn't long overdue. In fact, it's the reverse. Getting things that break the mold is long overdue. I couldn't count the number of "traditional" modules and Adventure Paths that exist in DnD for those that want it. But I can count DnD modules like this on one hand. Barrier of the Peaks, City of the Gods, and this. That's pretty much my point for people who complain that "we need more traditional APs" or "Pathfinder is becoming too genre inclusive". This AP isn't the end of traditional modules. Rather, this AP is a bone thrown to those of us that want something more. Something different and exciting that sparks the imagination and isn't tied down to the fantasy tropes we see in every video game, book, and movie.

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Alleran wrote:
Scavion wrote:
CommandoDude wrote:
Thelemic_Noun wrote:
So Paizo seems to have a thing for not statting their deities

There's a very good reason for that

Paizo just wants players to know that, no - you CAN'T kill a god (because if it has stats, that means you can kill it). I mean this literally, Gods have only been defeated on a near permanent basis (except for Aroden, who is the exception)

That is the difference between a 10th tier mythic and a God, the Hero can always die, it just gets REALLY tough.

Interestingly, a 20th level/10 MT character is CR 25 and could get 4 Domains and 4 Subdomains. CR-wise, just barely short of being considered a full on Demigod.

Already noted, but they'd be CR 24 normally. PC wealth kicks them up to CR 25. Then they could do something to gain that extra point or two of CR they need. Viable options are lichdom (+2), vampirism (+2), or, to swing it close to the Mythic, they could go to a Mana Well. By standing in it to accept the power and getting the right roll on the table, they will immediately gain the Mana Wastes Mutant template, which provides +1 CR. Sure, you're a deformed wreck half-destroyed by primal magical forces, but you're CR 26 and thus a demigod. Sort of a baby-Nethys, perhaps.

If becoming said deformed wreck is unappealing, however, then you can always politely ask the right person to give you the tribal tattoos and scarification necessary to become a Runescarred warrior. That's another +1, which would also do the trick.

At level 20/MR 10, the best bets are the Half Celestial/Half Fiend templates. Both would give a +3 to CR and be fitting for PCs that want to step into godhood.

Lich and Shadow Lord would be cool, clocking in at +2 CR.

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I think the barbarian is mostly just to simplify the math. Solving for new HP, then lost HP can be a real bugbear for new players.

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