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Akata

Odraude's page

Goblin Squad Member. Pathfinder Society Member. 6,349 posts. No reviews. 1 list. 1 wishlist. 2 Pathfinder Society characters.


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BigDTBone wrote:
Papa-DRB wrote:
BigDTBone wrote:
Papa-DRB wrote:
Jessica Price wrote:
Orthos wrote:
We'll have to agree to disagree then, DMD. Nothing pisses me off and strikes me as completely wrong more than that "All art is political" tripe.
The idea that reinforcing the status quo isn't political -- that those who want to change it are acting from an agenda (and therefore, it's implied, biased, self-serving, and ideologically driven) while those who uphold it are not (and therefore objective, unselfish, and neutral) -- is generally one insisted upon by people who believe they benefit from the status quo not changing.
No, you certainly do not have to look for or experience political meaning in anything. That doesn't mean it isn't there, nor does it make others strange to find it.

If others find political meaning in it, fine with me. Just don't make me out to be a bad person according to Jessica, since I allegedly "am one who believe that they benefit from the status quo not changing".

-- david

Added bold tags to the relevant part of her quote.

Benefiting doesn't make you a bad person, but whats interesting about your example is that Avatar doesn't promote the status quo. The underlying political message is against argi-business which is very much in opposition to the status quo.

Jessica is talking about works that actually purport to offer no political view by design but do so by process. So, to me, as a straight white guy, I go to see Gravity in the theater and it's a visually interesting spectacle that offers no real political message beyond the fact the Russians need to do a better job at keeping their space stuffs maintained. But they lady I was with immediately noticed that Sandra Bullock needed the ghost of George Clooney to calm her down so she could get her bearings in the soyuz.

She was right, that is a stupid scene that perpetuates a gender stereotype of a white knight figure charging in to save the damsel in...

Actually, I'd find that as an example of finding a political agenda that may or may not necessarily there. I've seen the same movie, with my girlfriend, and we both though it was a provocative film about someone in a tight spot and some of the things your mind does to cope with it. We didn't see a white knight helping a defenseless damsel in distress, but a person in distress using a coping mechanism to get through a terrible time. If it would a man in an astronaut suit with a woman ghost helping him, I would have thought the same thing. Same if it was a black man getting help from a ghostly white dude, or reversed. This doesn't mean you're wrong, but it doesn't mean you're right. I just think people will take different things from different films, no matter what the intent of the director is.

And I can absolutely tell you that I'm not invested in perpetuating the stereotype of a weak woman being saved by a man.


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Da'ath wrote:
LazarX wrote:
Face it.. the only reason you and many others care about the place, is because an American discovered it. If it was yet another European discovery, there wouldn't be all the foofarah.

I'd be willing to wager it has more to do with the fact many Americans were taught in early childhood that it was a planet, and with most things, are resistant to change (particularly as we get older).

You're "average American" likely doesn't remember who discovered it or cares.

Considering there are many Europeans I've met that feel the same way, it isn't just a proud Merica thing. The fact LazarX thinks it is is very unusual.

It's all a matter of nostalgia, not nationalism. Magic School Bus and Bill Nye taught me there were nine planets and g*& d&&mit, there will always be nine planets :)


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Papa-DRB wrote:
Odraude wrote:

Well, to their credit, they did discuss the issues coming into the ACG, which actually wasn't rushing the book. Between losing SKR, doing the ES Kickstarter,...

I'm happy the devs were able to comment on it and reveal their insight. I do wish it was more public, but you can't win them all.

Could you please provide a link to that thread.

-- david

It's here for your viewing pleasure.


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Kydeem de'Morcaine wrote:
Kirth Gersen wrote:
... that's really what a lot of this thread is: some DMs hate their players and think of them as bratty, spoiled children who have to be punished and controlled (makes you wonder why they all hang out together). ...

Completely untrue as well as thoroughly and needlessly obnoxious.

I like the players and GM's in my groups or I would be in the group. I do not punish or control them. We talk about what we want to see in a campaign and all of us strive to provide that for everyone.

The majority of the group prefers nearly perfect accessibility to magic items so that is how we play. That doesn't mean I wouldn't prefer significantly less perfect accessibility, both as a player and a GM.

Your reaction to Kirth's response of "GMs punishing the players" is the same response I have when people cry entitlement for players.

No one likes assumptions being made about their play style. If players like more magic items, it may not even be because they are entitled spoiled brats. Which seems to be the idea coming from some of the GMs here. Magic items = entitlement, you can't min/max and roleplay... all bunk ideas spread by GMs that I feel have become so far disconnected from what it's like to be a player that it somehow becomes an us vs them, instead of a cooperative gaming style.

Now, if everyone wants magic to be rare and is told ahead of time, then that's awesome. Kudos to them. Despite my poor experiences with low magic settings, I'd even run a setting like that. I'd probably do a good job because I know what NOT to do with it. But this idea that players are entitled s#&& birds that want all the magic items RIGHT NOW is as absurd as saying that all GMs that want magic to be rare are ego-fueled sadists punishing their players.


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Kthulhu wrote:

I love the classic X-Men storyline where Magneto steals Xavier's spell component pouch.

:P

Still a better storyline than Magneto pretending to be a Chinese mutant child, then getting hopped up on drugs and trying to reverse the Earth's magnetic pole ;)


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I love how people assume the GM is being a passive aggressive douche and not just finding the rules and allowing the player to play it according to the rules. Especially without the actual GM here in question to explain their side of the story.

Always staying classy here at Paizo I see.

Personally, I like the Young Characters rules, but generally allow players to be PC classes. It's honestly been fine and I have not had terrible issues with my games with it. Honestly the penalties aren't even that bad.

But please, continuing bashing the GM. Clearly they must be a terrible person with evil intentions bent on controlling the PCs for their own amusement. Clearly, without knowing the person or hearing their side, they must be bad and punishing the player.


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The "entitlement" predates 3.0. It was the same way in 2nd edition and, according to my dad, the same way back in his day. Only difference is that WPL is more codified into 3.X games. Though it isn't hard to work around honestly.

Course, is it the player that is entitled because they want rewards, or the GM that is entitled for wanting less magic? ;)


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thejeff wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
Wiggz wrote:
Ummmm... what does any of that have to do with the characters being motivated solely by financial reward, as stated in the post I quoted and responded to?
That's not what was stated. They were motivated by survival.
Quote:
Because risking our lives for no money wasn't worth it and wasn't fun.
Perhaps not solely, but money seems to have been a big part of it.

Lack of meaningful progress was the largest issue. We were playing soldiers in an Imperial army and for eight levels, never got to see any progress. No rewards, no promotions, no people for us to command. Just a "fight the good fight, you scumbags" and a pat on the back for our troubles.


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Wiggz wrote:
Odraude wrote:

I remember playing in a game where we were all 8th level and the GM was trying to go for the no Magic Marts-Magic is special route. After doing a long dungeon that culimanted with a battle between us and some golems and a purple worm, all we got for our troubles were.... a silver masterwork dagger, some coins (about 100 gp) and some silver horseshoes. Oh and a "Good Job" from our commander (we were employed by the army).

Next session, we all levelled. So we all took leadership, got some followers, and said that we were retiring from the adventurer life and buying farmland to live our days. Because risking our lives for no money wasn't worth it and wasn't fun.

Thank goodness Luke Skywalker, Indiana Jones, Frodo and Bilbo Baggins, Robin Hood and pretty much every great character from fiction didn't feel that way, eh?

As I recall, Frodo really didn't want anything to do with the ring. But we was pretty much pressured into it. And didn't Robin Hood end up marrying the noble woman and getting rewarded at the end? In fact generally, most heroes in fiction get rewarded in some fashion at the end of the story. And of course there are examples of heroes who continue to fight the good fight with no progress and get weary of it. Of course, I prefer my heroes more like Conan and The Gray Mouser than Superman and Gandalf anyways so...

And you're making the same mistake that a lot of GMs make when they want to make magic items rare and unique and special snowflakes. You are thinking of the game world as a novel, in a vaccuum without the PCs in consideration. There are things that work great in novels that don't translate well into games. Granted, giving PCs great stories to latch onto and become invested in is awesome and a great thing to do. But ultimately, this is a game. And in a game, the average player likes to do cool things with their character and their character's story. The PCs will like your world and your NPCs, but ultimately want to build up their PC's story, notoriety, and legend. Because to them, it's a game. A fun one. One that combines the immersion of books with the interaction of video games. They want to make their mark on the world and make their character awesome.

In general, PCs like to see progress. Progress is, of course, an open-ended term. It could be anything, and thanks to Ultimate Campaign , there are rules for more than just magic items, levels, and money. Farmland, a bar, a temple, a fort, followers.... these are all great for progress, get PCs invested in your story world, and you have potential story hooks for your players. But if your players see no progress, then after awhile, some may just not have fun with gaming. I know if I play a game that's the same thing over again with nothing to show for it at the end, I eventually get bored. That's what I see in the "make magic special" crowd. Usually a "red flag" (so to speak) to a larger issue of building and running a world without the PCs' consideration of it. That's admittedly based on my own anecdotal evidence of playing in games where GMs wanted magic items to be rare and special.

Now, if your players are cool with no rewards and doing good for good's sake, then by all means, go for it. Different strokes and such. But I'm talking in general, and from what I've encountered of GMs and PCs.


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Orthos wrote:
Quote:
Paizo sells fiction. There is no such thing as fiction that does not have a social agenda of some sort.
Eh, on this we'll have to disagree. I've read plenty of books whose only "agenda" was to tell an entertaining story, with no intent nor result to challenge any perceptions or status-quo. Doesn't make them any less entertaining IMO. So I can't say I agree with the idea that all fiction has an agenda, social or otherwise, beyond telling a tale.

Spoiler:

Either way, what's one person's backstory is another person's agenda pushing. I didn't find any of the LGBT NPCs to be agenda pushing and felt that their romance backstories are no different than, say, Ameiko's about her dead boyfriend.

It's all backstory that rounds out the characters. Why do we need to know that Shalelu has an estranged step-father? Why do we need to know that Ameiko's dad is a huge douche? Why do we need to know that Koya has always wanted to travel and leave Varisia? for all the same reason. Backstory. At the end of the day, it's all unimportant. But it makes the characters relatable and more real than saying "This is Hass Delgado, the elven blacksmith that's only here to craft your items.


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I remember playing in a game where we were all 8th level and the GM was trying to go for the no Magic Marts-Magic is special route. After doing a long dungeon that culimanted with a battle between us and some golems and a purple worm, all we got for our troubles were.... a silver masterwork dagger, some coins (about 100 gp) and some silver horseshoes. Oh and a "Good Job" from our commander (we were employed by the army).

Next session, we all levelled. So we all took leadership, got some followers, and said that we were retiring from the adventurer life and buying farmland to live our days. Because risking our lives for no money wasn't worth it and wasn't fun.


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wraithstrike wrote:
Kydeem de'Morcaine wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:
Mark Hoover wrote:
For folks that say magic items = rare and precious why not just houserule: no magic items can be bought, period? I'm not being snarky it's an honest question. Sure there are still crafting feats out there and everyone's free to craft on their own but literally no one in the entire game world will sell them, not even the consumables. The only way magic items then change hands are by gift or force. ...
I actually asked about that in a topic, and making them harder to get did not make them more special. ...

I have known a couple of GM's that do that. It actually was not a horrible game. Of course after a few levels everyone was building up a basement stock of +1 value items that were no longer of use.

But in my personal opinion that is too far on the other end of the spectrum. Both the Magic Mart anything-conceivable-is-always-in-stock and the opposite of nothing-is-ever-sold are both about evenly implausible.

I used to do the "you can buy everything" market also, but the book's 75% and cities with spending limits is a better way. I do however allow for items to be commissioned but sometimes that means the players have to continue the mission and come back later to pick it up.

I generally do this as well. My players have honestly always prefer making their magic items instead of buying them. We love that customization and naming it. We don't care about, say, Sir Archibald's rapier that we find, but love the swords and stuff we create and name. Because ultimately, we are building our own legend, not so much living in the shadow of another.

The magic mart is primarily a GM problem. I rarely see players complain and have found that more often than not, you'll never make magic feel special. Fantasy is too mainstream right now, with video games and movies and books flooding the market. Generally, people of the current generation aren't going to really be wow'd by magic if you just take it away from them and make it rare. Trust me, making a bunch of 8th level adventurers beg for a +1 dagger isn't very fun.

Course, this doesn't mean I have Magi-Mart Superstores everywhere. I generally have magic items available to buy from collectors, or have items the players craft. And if there is a magic mart, I generally do cool stuff with it. Like, I once had a dimensional-floating magic mart with a mummy oracle in it that would sell items to the players. They could summon him with a special feather token that would allow any door in a city to turn into an entrance into his store. And they ended up doing some cool planar adventures with him, since he had a sarcophagus that was pretty much a TARDIS. So I don't get lazy and just remove magic marts. I make them spare, but I also make them fun and engaging for the players. Pretty much everything I do ends up being a story hook for the players.

And one thing I've noticed with the current generation of gamers is that story and making magic cool is all about engaging both their mechanical side and their roleplaying side. If you just talk about Sir Archibald's rapier, most people will shrug it off. Especially if they don't use rapiers. But if you give them a quest where they learn about him, maybe because they need his weapon, and even tailor it to one of the party member's weapons, you'll find your players much more immersed in your world and enjoying magic for more than just numbers and bonuses.


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JohnF wrote:
captain yesterday wrote:
91 is the year before i met my wife:) i turned 15 that year

In '91 my wife and I celebrated our 13th wedding anniversary ...

I was four and wetting the bed being a regular bad ass!


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Ssalarn wrote:
Erik Mona wrote:

I'm sorry you had such a negative experience with the book, Dragon. While I don't agree with the premise of this thread in general, it is true that last year had a couple of significant challenges that may have contributed to some of the problems you cite.

Many of those factors (losing a core member of the design team, developing a bonus hardcover superadventure to support a huge Kickstarter campaign, and developing a book as visually complex and ambitious as the Strategy Guide) are not likely to occur in 2015, so I am personally optimistic about the future.

I am working on Occult Adventures (next year's Gen Con release) as a freelancer, and have had lots of opportunity to participate in the overall conception of the book. I've also worked closely with each member of the design team, all of whom have been uniformly terrific and on-point in every discussion I've had with them.

That book is going to be fantastic.

If we fell short of your expectations with the Advanced Class Guide, I'm confident that the books coming up will regain some of that faith you have lost. I have a lot of faith in them, and in those yet to come.

Erik,

I have full faith that Occult Adventures is going to rock, for the same reason I suspect that the ACG missed a lot of marks.

When I interviewed you at PAX last year, I saw the excitement in your eyes when you talked about a type of occult psychic magic as a possible future endeavor for Paizo, and the possibilities that you guys might explore there. You mentioned how other members of the staff were also very interested in the idea, and since you've announced Occult Adventures we've heard from other people brought on to the project and that same ecitement can be seen universally. It's that love.

I think even if the blatant editing errors were not present in the ACG there's still be a higher than normal dissatisfaction with it, and I think that can be traced back to the very idea behind the book, the concept of hybrid classes. The idea...

I actually disagree with this. A lot of what I've seen, including my own thoughts, actually like the idea of the hybrid classes and it doesn't feel lazy to us. It's just the editing was done poorly.


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I appreciate the dev comments. I understand that errors happen and nobody should expect absolute perfection. My biggest problem was (until now) little public dev comments about the editorial issues. No blog posts and little word for a month after the ACG. That's really what I wanted. Just a blog or thread that has what Lisa and Erik typed for the consumers to see, perhaps condensed down. It really helps put our nerves at ease and lets us know that you're reading our concerns. The comments here have put me at ease and while I wish this was more public for ease of finding, I'm very happy that the devs have come out to address these issues with us. Thanks for the responses.


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Erik Mona wrote:
Insain Dragoon wrote:


I can only speak for my experiences, but after reading the ACG I was so dissapointed I looked into more 3PP that could act as a new source of content for myself and my group and alternate systems such as DnD 5E, Rogue Trader, Numenera, Monster Hunter International, and Dark Heresy 2E

I'm sorry you had such a negative experience with the book, Dragon. While I don't agree with the premise of this thread in general, it is true that last year had a couple of significant challenges that may have contributed to some of the problems you cite.

Many of those factors (losing a core member of the design team, developing a bonus hardcover superadventure to support a huge Kickstarter campaign, and developing a book as visually complex and ambitious as the Strategy Guide) are not likely to occur in 2015, so I am personally optimistic about the future.

I am working on Occult Adventures (next year's Gen Con release) as a freelancer, and have had lots of opportunity to participate in the overall conception of the book. I've also worked closely with each member of the design team, all of whom have been uniformly terrific and on-point in every discussion I've had with them.

That book is going to be fantastic.

If we fell short of your expectations with the Advanced Class Guide, I'm confident that the books coming up will regain some of that faith you have lost. I have a lot of faith in them, and in those yet to come.

Honestly if this had been a blog post, some critics would be a lot less worried about Paizo. But the only blog we got was about the misprjnted title. When a company stays quiet about a mistake, it makes us wonder what they are doing, or if they even care. I'm glad to finally see devs weigh in on the product, but it has been a month since the ACG release. In that time, ive already seen people return their hard copies and jump ship to 5th ed or other RPGs. And when someone asks me if they should get the hardcover, i can't lie to them about its issues. It's hard to defend Paizo when, at least up until now, there weren't any public, formal statements about the ACG. So I'm glad we finally got word about this, but I really wish it was sooner and more readily available to the public.


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James Jacobs wrote:
Odraude wrote:

Figured I'd ask here since the devs are looking at this one.

I've asked this before, but no one ever answered it. The one thing I have on my mind is, with GenCon coming earlier, and the ACG being what it is because of rushing, is anything going to be looked at so that Occult Adventures doesn't suffer similar issues? I like Paizo, but I don't want to buy a hardcover that will have the same (or more) editing errors that the ACG had. The ACG may have been a singular drop in quality, but it is one that has the chance of repeating itself again next year. And I've been waiting for psionics to come out, so I am a lot more invested in Occult Adventures than the ACG.

So what can we expect from Occult Adventures and avoiding the same editing issues that plague the ACG? Is GenCon coming early being looked at as a potential issue?

Yes. We are absolutely doing things to try to let us do a better job on Occult Adventures.

Thanks for letting me know. I appreciate the time you guys take talking with us. :)


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Vic Wertz wrote:
Thehigher cause wrote:
Nicos wrote:
Personally I can't honestly recommend buying the physical copy, not until a second printing with all the Erratas.
I agree 100%
Ironically, every person who takes that stance actually delays the publication of the second printing... and if enough people were to do that, there would *be* no second printing.

Unfortunately, I don't have the money to buy a product with a great deal of editing errors. I don't want to spend $39.99 on a product with gross issues just so I can get the errata sooner. I don't have a lot of money and as much as I like Paizo and want to support them, I can't spend money on a product so I can get the errata faster. The frugal part of me won't allow that.

Seems like a catch-22 alas :(

Also, any chance you can comment on my question about the GenCon rush and Occult Adventures? I've been looking for a dev comment in regards to it, positive or negative. I just want to know if anything is being looked at to prevent OA from having similar editing issues due to GenCon coming earlier. I love psionics and I love Paizo, but after ACG, I am really worried about OA having the same issues.


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Figured I'd ask here since the devs are looking at this one.

I've asked this before, but no one ever answered it. The one thing I have on my mind is, with GenCon coming earlier, and the ACG being what it is because of rushing, is anything going to be looked at so that Occult Adventures doesn't suffer similar issues? I like Paizo, but I don't want to buy a hardcover that will have the same (or more) editing errors that the ACG had. The ACG may have been a singular drop in quality, but it is one that has the chance of repeating itself again next year. And I've been waiting for psionics to come out, so I am a lot more invested in Occult Adventures than the ACG.

So what can we expect from Occult Adventures and avoiding the same editing issues that plague the ACG? Is GenCon coming early being looked at as a potential issue?


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One thing I want to know is the significant difference between occult magic and normal magic. From the description of what people want (fairies, spirits, ethereal planes) , they sound more like esoteric arcane magic. I would like to read the differences.


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Better editing and quality control, now that GenCon is coming a month early.


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Man, sure are a lot of people channeling Sincubus in here :p

AP seems like it'll be interesting but I'd like to know more about it.


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I agree. You should make a character that has sex daily... I mean, dyslexia...


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James Jacobs wrote:
Kajehase wrote:
Oh wait, how scary would a divine shouting match be?
Very scary, and probably wholly unexpected and certainly the epitome of evil, if the reactions some folks have had on these boards to things involving Iomedae and sounds.

It's only evil if she asks Milani for help, then shouts her to death when Milani doesn't answer her questions how she wants it :p


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I wish people spent more time answering the questions than constantly questioning the motives of the OP. I find the constant picking apart and arguing way more annoying than vague questions.

Also, Maztica please :)


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If there is a Sarusan AP, there should be a Poisonous Creature template that makes any animal venomous.


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Maztica would be fun to visit. :)


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Oh... I was hoping this would be fully fleshed out settings, not one offs for an adventure.


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Give me a campaign setting in the Americas with the natives and I'll totally buy it. And help with it.


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Maztica or any North/South American equivalent. Maybe less of a focus on colonialism. Also including some Caribbean folklore. I have a New World setting I could share ideas from.

Planet hopping. Less like spelljammer and more like Barsoom and other pulp science fiction.

Eberron.

Al-Qadim. I love Arabian Nights.


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To further what Jawa said, no one is asking for alternate settings. Simply, we are looking for some basic groundwork and advice on running other genres and ages. In that way, they don't lose sales on Golarion products and 3PP can swoop in to provide more specific support. And I'm sure with how varied Golarion is, there could be a setting book that uses examples of each genre.

Dragonchess Player wrote:
Odraude wrote:
Primitive Era: Stone Age and Bronze Age adventuring, with rules for low magic, sword and sorcery, Hellenistic, and sword and sandal gaming. Themes would include low magic, tribalism and animism, survival, and humans transcending from nomadic tribes to sedentary civilizations. Or on the opposite side, high magic with demigods roaming the world doing wild things. Ancient astronauts, cities of wonder that are destined to sink from their hubris, living gods.

The rules in Ultimate Combat (Gladiator Weapons, Primitive Armor and Weapons, Performance Combat for gladiatorial games, Vehicles for chariots), Ultimate Equipment (Special Materials includes a section on primitive materials), Ultimate Magic (Words of Power), and Mythic Adventures can be used for pretty much all of this. You just have to make your own setting and apply restrictions on available material; Paizo isn't about to split its customer base by marketing any setting other than Golarion (and the associated solar system in Distant Worlds).

Odraude wrote:
Post-Medieval Era: Renaissance through Victorian and Edwardian and ending just during the Interwar period. Classics such as Steam Punk, Gaslight Romances, Pulp Stories, Early Soft Science Fiction, and Sword and Planet. Themes such as the difference engine, the march of industry, eugenics, imperialism, nationalism, exploration, and weird science.
Again, existing rules can be used to cover this....


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Those are good. Though one thing that we should remember is how to fit more esoteric tech that would be found only in fictional genres. So things from ancient magitech of Atlantis, or Steampunk airships, or Dieselpunk airships, or much of the technology seen in Wells and Verne books. I definitely want to see real-world technology as well as fictional technology to run really different and fantastical games.

Also my reason for combining Renaissance with Industrial is that we really have enough to run a medieval and renaissance inspired game honestly.


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I like where this topic is going.


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Aberrations would certainly be my go to for psychic energies. Outsiders and fey too.


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Kana wrote:
They have acknowledged that there are issues. In this post Jason Bulmahn says not only do they know there are issues, but that they will be addressing them.

That was 24 days ago and seemingly addressed minor things before the scope of the poor editing was realized. Not to mention it's not really in a public accessed area that people can read, like a stickied thread or blot post. That's the issue is have. No one would have seen that post if you didn't ljnk it for us.

Also, it doesn't address how this will be prevented for future GenCon releases, which is what I would like to see. I don't want to spend money on Occult Adventures if it's going to have the same editing issues.


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Darkholme wrote:

The degree to which magic items are requied to not screw up game balance is kindof annoying, and it would have been nice if the game shipped with an alternate mechanic to replace it rather than needing to be something I houserule out.

5e is much better for low magic, and I suspect that will be the scenario where I start making regular use of it.

Pathfinder Unchained would probably be the book to have low magic gaming. They are going to have alternate rules systems for crafting mundane and magic items as well as monster creation. So who knows? Good to make a topic about it, since it's still being developed.


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Marc Radle wrote:

An actual dowloadable errata document will happen when rhe book gets a second printing.

However, my hunch is Paizo is keenly aware that this book in particular is sorely in need of a thorough FAQ asap and is already hard at work making it happen

Still, it would be nice to have a dev post saying that they are looking at it and apologizng for the editing issues. I don't need an eta. I just want some form of acknowledgement and apology. Hell, we got a whole blot post about the mismatched title for ACG. I just want a two-three sentence post about the editing here for the fans to see so we know that there is something being done. And something later down the road explaining how they hope to prevent this repeating itself for Occult Adventures.


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No prob. Not tonight since I'm playing caretaker to my sickly lady friend. But definitely this weekend.


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Consider me interested. I can cover Aztec, Mayan, Incas, and Taino pantheons if necessary.


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As a fan of Arcadia, I don't want Paizo to be afraid of having Arcadian villains out of fear of offending people. If you treat them like actual people and not as caricatures (both positive and negative) then everything will be fine. But I don't like this "Arcadians cant be villains or victims" attitude people seem to have. Or this "let the Arcadians invade as some odd form of colonial payback". Feels less driven by telling a good story and more driven by "sticking it to the man". I don't want that at all.

I don't want Jim Crow: the RPG. But I also don't want White Guilt-finder either.


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Tels wrote:
Nicos wrote:
Bill Dunn wrote:


There's no point if grousing about it. Not all games are going to enable all concepts out of the box and that's OK.
A dexterous character who wields a rapier is really iconic character concept. It is a failure that hte game do not support that concept (well, perhaps it does now with the ACG, not sure).
It doesn't, I know, I've ranted about it.

Swashbuckler comes close, but you need another suppliment to get dex to your rapier. Devs really droped the ball and disappointed a lot of swashbuckler fans.absolutely nailed it on that one. :/


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anlashok wrote:
Bill Dunn wrote:


There's no point if grousing about it. Not all games are going to enable all concepts out of the box and that's OK.

I'm sorry but no. That's insane.

Not all games are going to enable all concepts, no. I'm not going to expect to play my space pirate captain and her fleet of battlecruisers in Pathfinder. I'll play rogue Trader or Savage Worlds for that.

But when the system itself has no problem with the concept and we're talking about something as trivial as tweaking an existing feat? There's definitely a point in "grousing" about it.

This idea that you can't have any opinion on a product other than a positive one and still play it is completely absurd.

But but... Paizo doesn't have to make good options for anything! And critiquing them is bad, because we'd just be whining like petulant children. Instead, the adult thing to do is to accept mediocrity or take our ball somewhere else. Clearly voicing dissent is the wrong thing to do always! :p


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Bill Dunn wrote:
Suichimo wrote:
thegreenteagamer wrote:
Seems to me a LOT of people complain about the system as it is. Complaints about not enough dex-to-damage options just up your strength if you really want to melee THAT badly

And if that is against your concept?

Then you've got a few choices to make:

1) house rule it with willing GM and players
2) accept your concept can only be approximated with the rules you've got and do the best you can
3) play a game in which that concept can be achieved like Mutants and Masterminds or some other system
4) change your concept

There's no point if grousing about it. Not all games are going to enable all concepts out of the box and that's OK.

No, its not okay. If you want more options or better designed options, you should voice that opinion and show it's merit. Just smiling and accepting mediocrity is a worthless method of going about anything in life. Whether it's dex to damage or more representation in RPG or better editing, people should voice it for the betterment of the game. Hell, that's how Pathfinder was created. If we folloeed your advice, we'd all be smiling like fools playing 5e and letting our 3.5 and 4e books to gather dust.

Mediocrity should never be accepted and no one, fan or worker, should ever get complacent. Not saying Paizo is either, I'm just saying that the "like mediocrity or leave" is a worthless, dismiss binary option in a world where there are better options. Like improvement.


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They have actual rules for fighting the hunger in Blood of the Night.


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Thelemic_Noun wrote:
Odraude wrote:
Lol wanking
You're not supposed to laugh when you're doing that. If you are, something has gone horribly wrong.

Or horribly awesome :D


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I am sick of the apartment-house disparity. Damned Ivory Tower balance!


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Marcus Robert Hosler wrote:
Odraude wrote:
I like Pathfinder but I need a break from it. ACG really has me bummed and I think I'm going to hold off on purchasing anything till that is sorted.

See the ACG has done the opposite for me.

I feel like spont feats goes a long way to addressing the martial vs caster disparity, and investigator does a great job at making a direct damage skillmonkey that can skillmonkey as well or better than the Bard with minimal combat investment (4 feats and 1 talent, 14 in dex and str).

If I didn't have a laundry list of psionic classes I wanted to play an MMM warrior and investigator would defiantly be on my *soon to play* list.

The content of the ACG is awesome. But the editing really kills it for me. And the lack of dev responses assuring things are being looked at is also disappointing me. With the exceptin of Liz who did kindly tell me that they are listening. Which I am very grateful for, but there needs to be an easier to access announcement about it. I mean, we got a whole blot post about the mismatched title for the ACG. I just want a topic that says the equivalent of "We're sorry and we're looking into it". I feel they used to be more transparent and engaging on these issues than they are now. Maybe it's a result of dealing with angry fans that cant express criticism without insult. That can wear on a person after a while. Who knows.

I'm also worried Occult Adventures will suffer the same fate, since GenCon is coming earlier next year. I don't know, I just feel less confident in Paizo lately with the handling of the ACG. So I'm taking some time, waiting for some word about the ACG being sorted. That and I'm still unemployed :/


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Every time I see this thread update, I get hopeful for more information. And then get disappointed that it's more forum roleplaying.


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I will never understand the draw to Doctor Who.


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Wiggz wrote:
Krathanos wrote:
Chalk up another vote for a dragon-centric AP. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think we still haven't had a Dragon BBEG, which is a crying shame.

But hey - we've got Robo-Gods!

Maybe they should do a 'transformer' themed AP next, or one where the PC's go on a five year mission to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations...

This is a really good idea. I've been working on a planet hopping adventure for awhile now, especially with the Technology Guide out and about.

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