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Elan

Odd Gospel's page

22 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists.


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Evangelist is interesting...it does not say how many rounds per day though. Does that mean 2 rounds per level like the bard?


Sorry I meant to say this in the post. Lvl 6, no third party...PFS stuff with approval.


I'm looking for a new party character concept. My last party friendly don't hot the spotlight, fill in for the holes of other characters but not make the game harder on the dm, wizard was killed. So I had made up a badass character to take it's place as a bit of a grudge but I'm reconsidering it. Since then the game got sidetracked by a few players needing to leave town for a few months so I got to play another campaign with a similar but more fun version of the grudge character so it's basically out of my systems and I don't really want to play the grudge characters as it's basically a more damaging less fun version of the one I just played.

I most often play buffer characters, bards or wizards that don't focus on doing damage themselves but buff others and provide utility/knowledge.

What I'm looking for is something a bit different. Still a support character, and one that never attacks in combat with the objective of doing damage. one that just does other annoying things. I need help figuring out what those things are.

Basically if i was a bard I would turn on inspire whatever, and then what do I spend the rest of my time with.

Maybe specialize in divine spells with knowledge bonuses.

That halfling monk that specializes in tripping maybe. I think there is a monk that specialize in combat maneuvers.

Is there a pally build that specializes in helping people?

The party is 1 blaster air wizard, 1 ranged ranger, 1 ranged rogue, 1 oracle, 1 pally. So we have four physical fighters so things like inspire courage will get a lot of play, and me being someone that doesn't do damage will help the DM out. he does like to use a large variety of monsters so i can't go with anything that could be too easily made worthless with immunity to mind effects or something.

Any idea's will be helpful, this just popped into my head and I haven't really researched options, so this is just what came to me right away. Even just suggestions of ideas could be helpful to me figuring out something fun.

PS: Non-lethal damage is OK. I just think the pacifist annoyer could be a fun thing to try since I don't want make the GM's fight balancing even harder.

PPS: Sorry I meant to say this in the post. Lvl 6, no third party...PFS stuff with approval.


I had a few questions on Sunder and wanted to ask for help on how to defend myself from it.

First the question. In the description it says as part of an attack option. Does this mean that if you have 4 attacks you can sunder 4 times? Does that work with things like multi atk with natural weapons, IE 2 claws and a bit = three sunder attempts?

Next how to defend against it tactically. I know there are feats that might help CMD but what else.

My group recently had a fight with a big bad angle with very significant casting power and we are a full melee (plus bard) group so we figured we could use an anti magic field to nurf most of it's abilities and keep it close. Was working well till the DM realized the guy had improved sunder and went to town taking out our weapons.

I was thinking Quick draw to put away and draw weapons as a free action between attacks, but the feat only say it draws as a free action, what can i use to put away as a free action? And could the NPC just sunder weapons I have put away on my person?


Oh yea, forgot to comment on a few of the suggestions.

I chose not to go with arcane strike because it uses my swift and I need that swift to often for things like bardic performance and the goblin roll with it feat.

I didn't know the eldritch heritage feat gave me more spells for my list? I thought it was just the first level power.


Sorry I left this post for so long, had to leave the house for a day.

Posters are correct, i only use IUS as a prerec for crane feats and deflect arrows.

DM thought it would be fun to give my character two sub ten stats so i've been playing with a 7 str for most of the game. Dawnflower dervish was my workaround for that.

I'm using a keen scimitar at the moment otherwise yes improved crit was on my get list.

Thank you for pointing out the anti-pally, I had dismissed it because he is inferior to the regular pally IMO because Lay on hands > Harm touch. But in looking at it again harm touch is irresistible. Still with just two lvls a 1d6 harm touch isn't going to be great. I plan on taking two levels of this class just for the full atk bonus and saves.

I hadn't considered three more dump levels because i didn't want to lose +4 courage. But again my mistake. that caps at 16! hazaa. Any suggestions for a non main barb or other full atk progression class to dip in? Urban looks good, Rage is allowed to help dex or con a little. and I get a plus one to hit and dodge.

For feats, I was looking at eldritch heritage feat but i'm not sure even with improved familiar on a chaotic evil character would be worth three feats.

Other feats I was considering was combat expertise then butterfly sting, I have a ninja and 2 hand great sword fighter in the party so they should be able to make good use of my 25% crit chance but that has similar problems to trying to get a familiar, combat expertise is a bad feat and I hate to waste even one of my last four.

Thank you again for your help and the advise!


I'm having trouble figuring out what direction to go with my character. I feel like currently I have as much versatility as I can manage with the amount of turns I get.

3 person high power game, evil alignment.

I'm playing a high dex 26/charisma 20, 11 dawnflower dervish/ 1 unarmed fighter. Sub ten str, just now got enough Int to qualify for the combat expertise feats but I've not taken any of those yet.

Trying to play a the role of tank using the goblin roll with it, and crane style feats. Almost all of my actions are always getting used, between rolling, bardic performance, AOO etc. I've got haste blind,grease and blur as buff spells. Invis and cures for utility. (Didn't take much in the way of atk spells because I don't have super high charisma for resists and i'm usually in the thick of combat.

Feats include: Dervish Dance, Roll with it (goblin), dodge, mobility, IUS, Crane style, deflect arrows, Crane Wing, skill focus acrobatics, Discordant voice.

I'm open to dumping 1 or two more levels of bard because I only use the ability to cast a few spells and i've already given up my lvl 20 skill/don't care about the lvl 18/19 progression. But I would like to keep the caster progression up that far.

I don't know what to do with my feats going forward, Crane riposte is an option, Combat expertise opens up many feats but i've only got 4 left unless a dip provides some.

Prestige classes are practically non existent in this game and underpowered usually but maybe you know one i don't know about.

Strait pathfinder books allowed. Dawnflower was allowed as an exception but I don't expect DM will allow more from the PFS books that aren't in core.

Thanks in advance for any idea's. I'm very happy with this character and so far it's been allot of fun. I Could just take things like weapon focuses type feats for small bonus and that may be the optimized way to go but i'm hoping I missed a few fun and effective options.


Help me figure out why this wouldn't work.

Dervish doubles the effect of the performance, So each time I turn it on i'll get 4 d10 plus con, temporary hit points.

once these hit points are used I can just end the performance (free action) and start another (move or soon to be swift) to give myself new temp hit points.

It's kind of cheese but i'm lvl ten at this point using a plus 1 sword and +1 armor so i'm looking for anything possible to remain effective since I have very little equipment. I'm trying to play the role of the tank using the crane style feats, high dex, and the goblin roll with it feat.


Thank you for the help. I didn't even notice the SU next to the names of the performances.

The ablity is called "battle Dance" but in the description.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/bard/archetypes/paizo---bard-a rchetypes/dawnflower-dervish

"Battle dancing is treated as bardic performance for the purposes of feats, abilities, and effects that affect bardic performance, except that battle dancing does not benefit from the Lingering Performance feat or any other ability that allows a bardic performance to grant bonuses after it has ended."

I think this covers the name issue, I was just worried because I couldn't find the type of effect it was.

Thank you guys again for your fast help.


The feat says it works whenever you are using a bardic performance to create a spell-like or supernatural effect, but reading and searching the bard description I don't see spell-like or supernatural used.

It does say in the Bardic Performance description...

"A bard is trained to use the Perform skill to create magical effects on those around him, including himself if desired."

Is that enough to assume spell-like or supernatural? I thought it would require them to be listed directly as such.

I was considering taking the Discordant Voice feat for my Dawnflower Dervish so my question is in general to the bard and if anyone see's why this wouldn't work on a Dawnflower Dervish that would be helpful to me also.

Thank you in advance.


Only rarely do you get to play in an Evil side game. What have you always wanted to do.

Yes the GM will have his plot but now you get to be evil about how you go about it.

Taking over evil organizations instead of destroying them, that sort of thing.


Thank you Ssalarn. I was looking and looking but missed the obvious.

So really it kills the reason for the dip in master of many styles or unarmed fighter as at three i already meet the prereqs for crane style minus the IUS, which i could get using Monk (martial artist) and still get a monk bonus feat (deflect arrows maybe) more skill points and just loose out on one BAB. I could get crane wing lvl 7.

I don't really want to do that though so toss me some other options. Archetypes that give IUS first lvl or just other strong tank dips maybe.


pathfinder srd wrote:

Unarmed Style

At 1st level, a unarmed fighter gains the Improved Unarmed Strike feat and any single style feat as a bonus feat. The unarmed fighter need not meet all the prerequisites of the style feat he chooses, but style feats that grant additional uses of the Elemental Fist feat cannot be taken until the unarmed fighter has that feat.

This ability replaces the bonus feat at 1st level.

I realize from some of the last quotes it might not have been clear we are talking about the fighter archetype Unarmed fighter. Quote above is the option we are talking about.

I apologize, Better to compare it to monk bonus feats where it does have the "no need to meet pre'reqs" language.

I guess the real question is, are the only style feats feats with the word style in them, or feats in the style feats section?


I read style as category of feat not name. Isn't that the general rule in this situation. IE combat feats for fighter bonus feats is a category not every feat that has combat in the name.

I'll look for an errata to clarify but if anyone knows please jump in.


Hmmmm, roll with it is an immediate action that uses takes up the swift action option if used. So if i get that (and I want it) it makes arcane strike a bad choice since that requires me to use a swift action every round also.

Any suggestions for replacements. Extra bard music is one....

What I would really like is something that allows me to get more distance or better use out of my 5 foot step.


Martial artist can only be combined with sensai. both MA and MMS effect the same abilities and cannot be combined.


Ok, I just realized that I made my goblin chaotic evil, so no monk :/ I just can't find a way to justify playing him lawful. Right now he is stupid evil with enough wisdom to fear things stronger than him. I don't know how to play stupid lawful evil...

So fighter it is.

I would like to retrain rapid reload as roll with it if my DM allows. (think he might since we made these characters on the fly)
Then I'll just switch to grenade weapons. acid and alcamist fires...that's more in keeping with a goblin anyhow. Also more dangerous for me, i know he will like that.

1 Bard(bonus feat: Dervish dance)
1 Bard(anti-Hero: Arcane Strike)
1 Bard Dodge
3 Bard Roll with it (goblin)
4 fighter([free]IUS,[bonus]Crane Wing)
5 Bard (Crane style)

Riposte will have to wait a while, I like only a neg 1 for def fighting but a neg 2 isn't bad along with negating a hit and the extra dodge ac.

Any good grenade weapons you can suggest :D


Our group had 2 people that aren't going to be able to make it for a few weeks so we are down from our normal five to three (plus gm). To Fill the time the GM wants to do an Evil group. Was zero notice so I threw together a character pretty fast but would like to optimize it a little better.

Stats are high as we only have three players and no real healers. I am a goblin dervish, the other two are humans, a ninja and a fighter TWF.

Starting lvl of 3. The GM let me use the Dawnflower Dervish and just changed the god related to it. I don't think he will let me use anything else that isn't in a core book. PG,UC,UM,APG,UEG.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/bard/archetypes/paizo---bard-a rchetypes/dawnflower-dervish
Stats are:

Str 7
Dex 22
Con 15
Int 8
Wis 15
Cha 16

Right now I am 3 lvls Dawnflower Dervish,

1 (bonus feat: Dervish dance)
1 (anti-Hero: Arcane Strike)
1 Dodge
3 Rapid Reload- Heavy x bow

Equipment ATM is a Mitheral chain shirt, Muleback cords(so I can carry any equipment),and a MW scimitar.

With the group we have i'm acting as a face of sorts, the only magical healing. I took Rapid reload so I would have any ranged attack at all.

I have a plus 9 to hit 1d4+6 (7 with arcane strike, 9 with bard song plus arcane. 22ac, 18 touch. Full access to spells but I wont be taking any spells that offer saves if i can help it.

I'm thinking I would like to be the tank/party face. I'll get a kick out of the stupid 2'11" Goblin being the tank for two humans. I'm open to other suggestions that make me viable though.

I could stay true to the bard and it would give me more spells, good skill points, more rounds of bard buff, and full progression for arcane strike. I thought about finding an arcane class to dip into to continue the arcane strike progression but even magus didn't seem to give great options, please help me out here if you know an interesting option.

I'm also thinking of taking a level dip into fighter (Unarmed fighter) or monk (Master of many styles). Both of these allow me to take a Style feat for a 1 lvl dip that I don't have to meet the prerequisites for.

Fighter Pro's: Full BAB progression, proficiency in all monk weapons, D10 Hit points. Con : Fewer skill points (1 for me),only +2 fort save

Monk Pro's: 2 extra skill points, and allows use of two styles at once, wis to ac (if I get enough dex to stop using armor),+2 all saves Cons: D8 Hit points, no BAB progrssion

Both builds will give me improved unarmed fighting (that will be use full to qualify for future feats)

The style feat i'm looking at is.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/crane-riposte-combat

This will allow me to fight defensively for +3 ac at only a -1 to hit.

I could also use some suggestions on how to better defend my character. The build is rather limited in what I can do effectively. I really only have one weapon that is even worth while. I'm horrible at any maneuvers,and while my saves could be worse with the mule back cords I can't buy a resist cloak to help me with the saves and I don't know how to make that up.


Something like that.

Power attack actually isn't the best feat because it's hard for you to make up the attack bonus lost vs weapon using classes. This is especially true with crane style because of the penalty due to fighting defensively. Maybe weapon focus unarmed to later qualify for specialization?

For your dragon build you can't actually take take roar at lvl 7, a prereq is 8 ranks in acrobatics.


Thank you for your answers. I'm currently working to source them so I can take them to my DM.

A few more questions though if you don't mind.

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/magicItems/magicItemCreation.html said wrote:
The DC to create a magic item increases by +5 for each prerequisite the caster does not meet. The only exception to this is the requisite item creation feat, which is mandatory. In addition, you cannot create potions, spell-trigger, or spell-completion magic items without meeting their spell prerequisites.

Does the above quote allow you to bypass the caster lvl of an item?

IE can that same 6th lvl wizard make a +1 unholy short sword, by adding plus five to the DC. IE 5(base) + 7 (cl listed in book)+ 5 (for not meeting the CL prerequisite.

The reason I think this works is because the construction requirements listing spells out that the creator must be a caster of at least 12th lvl. This listing isn't on the other special abilities or magic items.

Is there any list of what requirements can be ignored for a plus five bonus?


With a Martial artist you will be using your swift action every round for exploit weakness which makes it a little tough to switch fighting styles. So you may want to pick one style and stick to it or plan to spend a feet to change as a free action.


I've tried to do my best searching the forums and the rest of the internet, but I still have some questions and want to confirm what I think I know. I'll number things and try to give examples where needed.

1. I Have not been able to find a guide on the actual skill checks made. Do I make a spell craft check every day of item creation? Or is it every 1000 gp worth of creation? Or is it one check per item?

2. The DC to create the item is the the caster level listed for the ability. IE: spell storing is cl 12th, so total DC to create is 17?

3. You can take 10 for this check?

4. That Caster level does not get any higher for items like Bracers of armor, no matter the armor bonus they provide, IE: the DC to create bracers of armor +1 and +8 are both 12 (CL 7)

5A. This is a big one that has me confused. For arms and armor there is the special prerequisite that the creator must be 3 times the lvl of any enhancement bonus he provides IE lvl 6 caster is limited to a plus +2 bonus. But could that same caster provide a +2 enhancement and a +2 special ability such as Unholy.

5B. In the case above for the unholy +2 sword, the cost would half of a strait +4 (32000 gp base).

5C. IE a creator can make up to 1/3rd his caster level in enhancement bonus but can add special effects above that limit?

5D. What is the limit to special abilities, A +1 is required before any special ability can be placed on an item, but can you place a +2 special ability on a +1 enhancement sword? IE can the special ability bonus exceed the enhancement bonus?

Thank you in advance for your help.


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