Nobody Important's page

The Ranger in the party can also have a wand of CLW.

The Druid could take a one level dip as a Cleric just to gain access to positive energy channeling. The 30’ radius burst is a more efficient way to heal your party than CLW since you don’t have to touch them as you cast the spell one-at-a-time. You may need the advantage against undead anyway.

That said:

A Druid with the Brew Potion Feat can create potions of CLW, as well as buff potions like "Barkskin", "Bears Endurance", "Bulls Strength", "Cats Grace", etc etc etc.

Remember too, that Druids have "Stabilize" as an Orison...CLW is a 1st level spell AND they have "Goodberry" as well...verrrry useful at low levels since it can be a cheaper alternative to potions of CLW. Remember that "Goodberries" last 24 hours...AND as a bonus you'll save on food costs and encumbrance.

If you have a potion brewing Druid, make sure that he / she is not taking all the material costs alone out of WBL.

I recall in the past when I played a melee character, I bought my own wand of CLW (CMW later on) to give to the party healer to minimize arguments over costs.

A character I have in a FR campaign is a level 9 Elf Ranger-6, Justice of Weald and Woe-3 archer / sniper type of character with the leadership feat and a level 3 Pixie Druid with the Brew Potion Feat as a cohort.

One thing I've considered is treating high level magic as nukes and having a sort of magical 'cold war', with nobody willing to use large-scale magic offensively due to the threat of reprisal.

At least with nukes we (U.S.) knew what we were up against, and the devastation the lay ahead, thus they were a deterrent.

In a fantasy setting you must worry about ethereal invasions, burrowing monsters, summoned monsters, gated demon armies, teleportation etc, I think you're right Ioiprevisto but for a different reason...it's not fear of a nuclear response, but fear of an unknown response of unknown godly or arcane power that might be the deterrent. Thus a defensive army must flexibility to defend against anything and everything deseigned into it.

Wheras an offensive army will need to know what it's up against.

With that in mind, there will likely be more cloak and dagger stuff; spying, intel gathering, political maneauvering, back-stabbing, assassination and sabotage...IMHO. AND, there will be more factions, think Lebanon in the 80's, but with more groups and temporary alliances of convenience.

Nobody, if you look military history in the last centuries, you will see plenty of examples of outdated tactics being used because the "wisdom" of centuries had taught so, and a few subjects realizing what has clanged and trying to modernize the tactics.

The American civil war with good quality muzzle bore rifles, the first machine guns and the first repeaters used in warfare had already given the lessons needed to see that warfare had changed and anticipate what WWI would have been.
Still military commanders tried to win WWI with massed charges and tactics more appropriate for the Napoleonic wars than a modern war.

One of the reason of that, even today, is what you have already invested in weapons and structures and the need to continue to utilize the old stuff to avoid losing the investment.

In the Pathfinder and D&D world you would be seeing the same probably.
"We have already invested hundred of thousand of GP in impregnable walls. We only need some low cost modification to adapt to these new guns (sneer) [or spell, or whatever], I will not approve the expenditure of more thousand of gp for a upgrade."

Beside that, this kind of brainstorming is fun :D

Diego, you are right to point out the obvious time lag between technology and lessons learned or not learned on the battlefield, what I was talking about thought was th eknowledge gap between what a player (you and I) know and what the thousand year old kingdom should collectively know...thus the need for discussions like this.

...and you're right about militaries not wanting to waste sunk costs...look at the prop-jobs we flew at the beginning of the Korean War, or the Spviet made T-55's still in use today.

Semper Fi

The biggest problem with this whole discussion is the gap between what an individual player does know of warfare, and what the character he / she is playing should know about warfare.

A kindgom that has stood for hundreds or perhaps thousands of years has a military and defense network born of experience with the costs of created defenses spread out over hundreds or thousands of years...and a player or DM should know all of this upfront?

In my mind, creating a standing military and defense network by a gamer without the requisite hundreds of years of expert experience isn't going to work ever...especially on a micro-level.

Keep your military / defense network deseign simple and flexible. Look at WoTC's Waterdeep and the Grey Hand Enforcers as a really good example.

The fantasy game world is strangely balance...if a city happens to have a cabal of high level wizards around I'm sure that the king has something better for them to do than blast low-level mooks. Especially since IF, the city has a cabal of high level wizards, the approaching army also has a group of high level / powewrful entities that the ONLY the high level wizards will be able to tackle.

IF the opposing armies are not balanced, then the game becomes, well, not much fun.

Every military unit has strenghts and weaknesses which are usually overcome by tactics...think Russia in Afghanistan in the 80's, or the US bombing Bosnia, or our involvments in Vietnam, Iraq, and Afhganistan.

Tactics, tactics, tactics and good intel.

Now what would a fantasy DnD war look like?

For intelligent humanoid armies: If you’re bigger than every on else on the battle field…you’re dead. If you show how big of a target you are by tossing around fireballs…you’re dead. If you fly over the battle field on a powerful magical beast…you’re dead. There would be a lot of diplomacy, cloak and dagger, sabotage and subterfuge, and lots of small unit sized commando style actions. But, massed armies will exist…

For monstrous humanoids and goblinoids…you’d likely see mass armies supported by monsters, sorcerers, and adepts. Their tactics would be rudimentary, and behind the scenes sabotage would be not so prevalent.

I got out of the United States Marine Corps a Staff Sergeant. I served in combat with the 1st Marine Regiment of the 1st Marine Division, and while there did a lot of study on military tactics…some for self-improvement, some mandatory.

The problem(s) I see with many of the tactics discussed relate to terrain and timing in the battle. Here is what I see…they are all right, and they are all wrong. There is a right time and place and a wrong time and place for each battle tactic / formation presented in this discussion.

Wars unfold across many fronts, some before the first “shot” is taken. Laid out in a somewhat chronological order, here are some “front’s” to consider

-- Political posturing and alliance building / or breaking depending on the politics.

-- Resource gathering and production…hey Clerics, a war is brewing, start making wands of CLW, farmers have their in-kind taxes increased, etc.

-- Home front, as in, getting the populace ready and behind the war effort.

-- Spying / information gathering and the counter-surveillance / counter-intelligence that goes with that.

-- Training, arming, and equipping…which is often used an excuse for pre-position and pre-posturing men, monsters, and materials.

Once a war starts you need to consider these hostile actions:

-- Spying; information gathering never stops, as well, attempts at diversion and presenting false information. Think Task Force Troy in the first Gulf War.

-- Infiltration and Sabotage…poisoning, burning, breaking, stealing, disabling, whatever the enemy has, has access to, or wants…think PC’s as commandos. Some of these shortfalls can be overcome by creation magic, but, one thing has not and will not ever change in war…most wars are fought over territory and you still need to have boots on the ground to occupy the conquered territory. Creation magic to feed tens of thousands in an epic battle will be too expensive and too concentrated…as in, not available for everyone.

-- Logistics, getting what you need to where you need it. Now in a fantasy setting things like folding boats and portable holes , teleportation magic and the like kick in.

Now for battle formations you may need to account for castle sieges, you may need to account for narrow mountain passes, you may need to account for plains, frozen tundra, unearthly hot desserts, tropical islands, towering cliffs, and if a Faerun fan, floating earth motes or whatever they were called.

Attacks may come from the air…think griffon mounted wizards, dragons, and giant owls. Attacks may come from the sea…think ships with large catapults and Marines, think aquatic elves and sahuagin, kraken and dragon turtles. Attacks may come from under ground…think ankhegs and bullettes, drow elves and dwarves. Attacks may come from marauding hordes of orcs, goblins, hobgoblins and giants. Attacks may come from other planes and may be summoned from the very pits of hell itself.

Now for every type of terrain, for every weather climate, and for every defense, there are strengths and weaknesses to numerous to list here because there are too many variables. For every type of offensive attack you can dream up, there are both strengths and weaknesses…and guess what, you won’t know the full capabilities of what you are attacking or of what’s attacking you.

The point is you have to know something about military tactics, your possible enemies, and appropriate counter-measures to defend or attack anything in both large scale military actions and squad sized military actions. Again, there are too many variables to list here or anywhere else. But you need to have contingency plans, backup plans, and options available. Therefore, you need to be prepared and equipped to potentially do a lot of different things.

But other than roll thousands of dice and account for an unlimited number of variables, use mass-combat rules, or use a system like “Heroes of Battle” by WoTC and have the war the background to the PC’s actions.

A good example of a city with a well-thought out fantasy defense is Waterdeep.

Pray you don’t ever face my armies on the fields.

Greg

Nobody Important wrote:

My PC's in a sandbox campaign are already hinting at this...so I will need a good guestimate. Best I can figure about 400 pounds? But that makes food stores really really heavy.

Does anoybody out there have a good guess I can run with?

Cheers

It is 250lbs, Look at the bag of holding chart. Well that is it for the 2 smaller. And 375 for a type 4. I would use 250lb. And it is only 50lb for treasure. Beacuse that is not packed for shipping.

Well that is the numbers i can find. But the idea of a cargo unit is it is a volume more then a weight I think. Cargo is bulk goods. like wool or silk or wheat. But they say it is a mix. So it would be a bolt of wool, a barrel of mead, and some hatchets. All in one cargo unit.

I never actually thought of using the bag of holding, that wieght might actually make sense. I think I can live with 250 pounds...

I figure characters with a decanter of endless water can save 9/10ths of the weight of their own food stores though.

Thanks

I was actually thinking about the representative "Cargo Unit" from the Pathfinder "Jade Regent" Adventure Path...I was wanting the weight in pounds.

@Maezer...your math on weight of water is quite useful, thanks.

I think "pet" is not quite the word I'd use, but if you wanted to form a pack of your own try this:

Paladin's special mount
Druid's animal companion
Sorcerers familiar

Then take the Leadership Feat, and get a Cohort with the same ungainly build. It's not pretty, but it would work.

Oh yeah, buy some constructs, invest in some summoning magic, then buy a Horn of Valhalla, and a Tan Bag of Tricks.

It can be done...but why?

My PC's in a sandbox campaign are already hinting at this...so I will need a good guestimate. Best I can figure about 400 pounds? But that makes food stores really really heavy.

Does anoybody out there have a good guess I can run with?

Cheers

I’ve never seen a group of *good* players foul things up too badly by multi-classing. *Good* players will almost always find a way to overcome challenges.

We challenge ourselves:
We often start out all weird (read un-optimized for you Olympians out there)
As all Elf Archers (Fighter or Ranger) as a squad that was accidently left behind enemy lines during an orc war.
As all Dwarf Experts banished to the surface and forced to squeak out an existence in the human world.
As escaped slaves with NO starting equipment or money (all as warriors)

I personally have played the following:
Dwarf Barbarian / Monk / Drunken Master (soooo much fun!)
Darfellen Fighter / Barbarian / Ranger / Leviathan Hunter
Half-Orc Fighter / Ranger / Beast Heart Adept
Elf Druid / Ranger / Justice of Weald and Woe (took the leadership feat and had a pixie level 3 druid as a cohort)

I am currently playing an Elf Aristocrat 1 / Swashbuckler 3 / Beguiler 1

Multi-classing is what you make it. I don’t much care about the so-called math of advancement, nor the “balance” required to accomplish all tasks. Just like real life, the team you are surrounded with either at work or on the soccer field, you may not have ALL the necessary skills available to start with, but somehow, you manage to get by.

*Good* players manage just fine, and so do *good* GM’s …and have more fun and more challenges in the meantime.

Just my two-cents worth.

Cheers

Multiclass as a Wizard-Ranger-Druid...you'll have two AC's and a familiar. Now take the Leadership Feat and get a Wizard-Ranger-Druid Cohort who will also have two AC's and a familiar.

If all four party members do that, you'll have a whole pack of...nothing.

Cheers

I think character optimization only works if encounters all begin to look and feel the same...if that is happening, I say blame the DM for not being very creative. I don't mean a DM should go out and deliberatly design encounters to foil the favored attacks / tactics of an optimized group, but if the encouters vary and create enough need for varied character stats, the problem will solve itself.

As for the story telling aspect, yes, you can tell a story with optimized characters fighting a balanced encounter...but that's boring. What makes a story memorable (to me at least) is when they persevere inspite of their weaknesses, (read not-optimized) and when they triumph over foes and adversaries of greater-power.

Just my two-cents worth...

Digitalelf wrote:

I have made it a habit of using MS Word to type my posts, then I just simply copy and paste...

Doing this also allows me to easily spell check my posts before submitting them...

Yet you still misspelled "magical hamster that dictates my words." I think you need to upgrade. I hear honey badgers can be useful.

+1 (x100)

I love "thumbing-through" D&D books in hard cover...something that just wouldn't feel satisfying with ebooks.

I remember being a Summoning Cleric once, summoned lost of help. I told the meat-shield in the party..."you want to be healed, buy a wand I can use on you..."

Arguing that something doesn't belong in a fantasy game has always been a tad silly IMHO. For me, it all depends on the flavor that the GM wants for his campaign world.

Not every GM wants an Asiatic flavor, so ninjas, samurai, and monks might go straight out the window.

I know for sure a lot of them wouldn't want a Jurassic Park in their campaign world either.

So you're complaining about predictability in a fantasy world with genies and dragons? Is an imp, quasit, or pseudo-dragon familiar ok in old-London? Or a Paladin on his unicorn mount? So what if a druid has a T-Rex AC...is that "optimized?" Rexy can't go into most dungeons, pirate ships, fit through most portals, nor attend the kings masquerade ball? If your players always do the same thing and always pick the same AC, that's the DM's fault for not varying things more...if you think a T-Rex is optimized or unusual / setting-inapprpriate, you may need to think more creatively.

I vote ok for Rexy as an AC.

Nobody Important wrote:

For high enough level merchants, "profit" is relative...profit could mean lore and information, it could mean sacking a rival, or it could mean eliminating an ancient blue dragon or some such. As long as strings are attached more than just payment in coin.

I would deffinatley attach strings if a player wants something so specialized as a +5 Vorpal Greatsword or some such.

Agreed in both points. However, from a gygaxian naturalist perspective if I were an immortal planar merchant who specialized in magic items I think creating one of these rods every century or so and scattering them strategically about the multiverse would be very very profitable not to mention helping to get rid of rivals by "accidentally" giving high level intrepid adventurers information that they use to cripple/kill your rivals. Naturally the adventurers would have no idea that that's what they were doing, but hey it's just business.

Outsiders using PC's as unwitting pawns. NICE

I think I smell some alignment changes coming if the PC's fail a sense motive check.

Nobody Important wrote:

I like the rod, it is very clervely thought out, and could be used if implemented carefully and with contractual strings attached, but for now, I'll pass on it.

I can't decide if the rods should be rare, for obvious reasons, or purposefully distributed throughout the cosmos by planar merchants. Were I a merchant I would want the later, but only if it was safe (for me) and had the proper profit margins to make it worthwhile.

For high enough level merchants, "profit" is relative...profit could mean lore and information, it could mean sacking a rival, or it could mean eliminating an ancient blue dragon or some such. As long as strings are attached more than just payment in coin.

I would deffinatley attach strings if a player wants something so specialized as a +5 Vorpal Greatsword or some such.

I never liked magical Wal-marts. I think having a rod that can basically summon any and ever magic item a player could want to buy is too-powerful, boring, and well, for lack of a better way to put it, intellectually lazy.

In my campaigns, players find what they find, they craft what they can, and purchases are limited, random, and often requre side quests.

I use retired PC's as NPC's for such things as: merchants, rulers, assassins, sages, and guild masters. I have cleverly let players reitire PC's that I age and sometimes level-up come back in this manner. One of my favorites was a floating island arcane academy / war college somewhat akin to Forstburns Ice Razer. I have also created traveling caravans, and pirate-merchants in this manner.

Most of the work is done for me as the characters are created during game play.

I like the rod, it is very cleverly thought out, and could be used if implemented carefully and with contractual-strings-attached, but for now, I'll pass on it.

WOW, the posters here never cease to amaze me. Some of these new buildings are great.

I do have one od question though...in a world with undead, why on earth, or Golarion, or Greyhawk, or Faerun would a town build a graveyard? It seems to me that cremation would be, well, for lackof a better word, safer.

To me a graveyard adds no bonus, only unrest.

I do think though that Magical Medieval Soceity Western Europe over powers the Lyre of Building

Magical Medieval Soceity Western Europe is the best way to make a city, a county, a countryside, and a kingdom that I have ever seen. If you want your background city to be realistically and fully explorable, use this.

What a bunch of trollcrap this discussion is. In a fanatasy world where demons and devils, dinosaurs and dragons, zombies and dracoliches are opposed by magic wielding heros capable of re-writing the laws of physics...you're wasting your time wondering about how many arrows an archer can fire in real life in six seconds? Hell, Ill just have my level 10 arcace archer level / level 10 wizard imbue an arrow with maximized fireball fired from a +5 holy burst seeking composite longbow of speed, then use his cape of the mountbank to "blink" 600 feet away before casting greater invisibility on him and his griffon mount.

Please try not to get so real, this game is fantasy afterall.

The Arms and Equipment guide has howdahs; each holds 4 medium humanoids. It gives two specific examples, elephants hold one howdah with 4 med humanoids, triceratops hold 1 howdah with 4 med humanoids, plu sone extra behind the bone plate for the driver. Maybe that's a bad example, I wanted to know how many small sized halfling crossbow-archers can fit in a howdah on the back of a war-trained triceratops. I ruled 6 in the howdah, plus a driver getting half-cover behind the bony plate.

I also ruled a DC 10 balance check to attack while moving, a DC 15 balance check to attack while charging, and a DC 20 balance check if the triceratops took damage; also used the penalties for not having the mounted archery feat. I ruled that a military saddle was required for the driver, but ruled the saddle out for archers mounted in the howdah.

When is the PDF for the Varnhold Vanishing going to be available?

What do small 3pp's use for map making software?

The thing that I work on every day is building up my (web) presence. Forums mostly. I am a unknown to most people. So when I say that I am a Pathfinder (or Traveller) Compatable publisher, I hear alot of "I don't use any 3pp material." So I talk to the person for a while, hoping to sway their opinion. Sometimes I do, sometimes I do not. Then there's the upkeep of forum signatures, wiki entries, blog posts, website updates, ... So then I stop ignoring the day job (just kidding boss). Then there's give the GF some TLC, read her a bedtime story and stay up for another hour to get a little more writing done.

Wash, rinse, repeat.

Excellent advice!!!

If a sunrod could light a fire, there would be no need for tindertwigs.

How did you get silence, entangle, and black tentacles on the same character?

I had a level 12: 8th level Sorcerer with access to Black Tentacles, 2nd level fighter for the archery feats, 2nd level Arcane Archer, and many ranks in UMD (to decipher and cast the divine scrolls); plus my always faithful unseen servant holding the divine scrolls for me since I only have two arms...use a move action to load the bow, and a standard action to "use UMD" to cast the spell; The description for Imbue Arrow says "...and the Arcane Archer can fire the bow as part of the casting."

That may not be the way the RAW were intended to be used, but it fit our story line and it worked for our campaign, well, only if I made that DC 22-24 UMD check for the divine scrolls (my UMD +23)

Cha 19, +4
Ranks, +12, +3
Magical Aptitude Feat +4

Could've worked better with Skill Focus UMD.

It wasn't the most powerful character I ever played, but it was different and fun.

Also, step-up is actually hugely valuable to any melee character, precisely because of how powerful casters are. I honestly would never build a Fighter class character who didn't pick it up in the first 6 levels or so, and can't really see most Paladins going without it either, though there are some who might. (Rangers are a mixed bag of melee vs ranged, and barbarians get their own version of it, so those are hard to call.)

Dedicated Archer / Mage killer? I used an elf Arcane Archer imbuing arrows with Silence, Slow, Stinking Cloud, and Entangle to slow down those pesky ranged attackers...my favorite, Black Tentacles adjacent to them. That sure buys time for the melee combatants to close!

Weylin wrote:

Admittedly, that last rellies on a game master going with a certain level of realism. Most people who get lit up by alchemist fire are going to abort their attack and try and put themselves out. This is basically magical napalm we are throwing around. At times, game masters I have played with have required Will saves (or if using them, an action point) to push on while on fire or even to dash through fire.

It does and it doesn't. If the creature's immune to fire, he honestly wouldn't care. I've had DMs that know what you're probably going to do, have all the monsters on the realm get a twittered memo about you and your plans, and then when they face you they're ready to go. One player's even said "Wow, I wish I could get that memo." So do I.

Wouldn't it be easier to keep a one-handed melee weapon that you're proficient with in a *Glove of Storing* in your right hand? If you're right handed you're holding the bow with your left hand anyway and drawing arrows and the bowwstring with your right. The PRPG RAW for Glove of Storing State: "...storing or retreiving the item is a free action..." So draw after you fire your last arrow, and store before you fire your first...then you'll always threaten.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

hogarth wrote:

Argothe wrote:

Eldritch Knight, Mystic Theurge, et. al. are not "patches", they are the rules the designers intended for multi-classing casters.

Then why weren't they in the 3.0 DMG?

Why were any changes made from 3.0 to 3.5?

So Wizards could sell more books...

179) Chill the top of that chainmail bikini armor, watch her nipples get hard.
180) Make yourself look like a leper.
181) Pay your road tolls in coppers that look like golds,

If you're using any of the FR supplements, Serpent Kingdoms (pg 146) has a feat, "Narrowed Gaze." It states:

BENEFITS: You may chose to limit your gaze attack to an active attack. Doing so prevents you from accidently affecting friends with your gaze.

NORMAL: A gaze attack functions constantly on all those within range, and it can also be used to actively attack as an option.

PRE REQS: Int 13, gaze attack

"Guildcraft" by Bastion Press may be of some use...

Can anyone tell me what kinds of guilds this covers? Is it adventuring guilds, commerce guilds, or political guilds? Or a combination of these?

It's a DM's tool for creating guilds, but does have good samples that can easily be inserted into your world.