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Nipin's page

Pathfinder Society Member. 295 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 2 Pathfinder Society characters.


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JoeJ wrote:

I haven't found anything in the rules that says the text description of an ability isn't part of the rules for that ability. To me, the word punch means fists and those few weapons that are used to enhance fists, like cestus and spiked gauntlet.

"Punch" is not a weapon. It is actually not a game term, to my knowledge it has never been formally defined in rules text. Unarmed Strike is a weapon which could include a kick thus not requiring your hands to even be free when delivering an unarmed "punch" with Pummeling Strike. Cestus, spiked gauntlet, and the others suggested by several posters are all defined weapons. The text for this feat does not mention any specific weapon or set of weapons (e.g., close weapon group) as defined in game terms. The clause "in a single punch" could be replaced with "in a single burst" and have the same meaning to many of those reading the text. If the author intended this to be limited to a specific set of weapons, many of us expect them to list the restrictive set of weapons.

No-one here can claim the author did or did not intend for the feat to be restricted to certain weapons, and this is because the text of the feat does not clearly spell out this intent. Thus, we are asking for clarification.


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Insain Dragoon wrote:
Serisan wrote:

I'm enjoying the critical typo in the Mastermind's Inspiration.

ACG pg 101 wrote:
Mastermind's Inspiration (Ex): A mastermind can use inspiration on any Diplomacy,

probably meant

Intimidate, or Knowledge skill checks without spending a use of inspiration. This ability alters inspiration.

However, he is technically correct, the best kind of correct.


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Insain Dragoon wrote:

I generally find your posts to be from a steady and pretty balanced POV, so I'd be happy to copy and paste stuff if you have any other requests.

<text removed for length>

Come on people...How am I supposed to fit two more feats into my TWF, dual-Falcata wielding, Oath of Vengeance Paladin's build without bonus feats! No BBEG lives past the first round ever again!

Seriously though, this feat line looks a bit on the broken end. Consider the kukri wielding TWF's. Large crit range, many opportunities to crit, any single crit makes the whole sequence of attacks a crit.

Don't base balance decisions on 20th level:
How about if we swap the weapon to Falcata and consider a 20th level fighter. Our fighter has 9 attacks(speed weapon full twf chain), 30% chance to crit per attack, a x4 crit multiplier, and only needs one attack in the entire sequence to crit. Make the fighter mythic and that is a x5 crit multiplier.

I am expecting clarification on what weapons can be used with this feat. Either only unarmed or only the close weapon group is what I expect.


don't mind me, just a little dot here


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Necrovox wrote:
Sharkles wrote:

Yes! I really hope these are addressed and corrected soon! This is the most excited I've been for an archetype in ages, so I'm quite disappointed that this is also the only time I've seen a class feature completely missing.
Here's to hoping it was +wis mod to ac?

I'm not sure why people want a cleric that doesn't wear armor to have AC boosting abilities. The point is to be less of a melee combatant and more of a caster right? An armor-less cleric should defend herself the same way any other caster would (don't stand where they can hit you).


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Ravingdork wrote:

** spoiler omitted **


+1 Silver Shield and Mirror Polish gives us a 1,000+ gp silver mirror.

Scrying requires a 1,000+ gp silver shield. Now, I can turn my meatbag...ahem, friend's...shield into a silver mirror for scrying.


Nicos wrote:
I was considering buying the ACG, but a book that have side to side divene protection with canny tumble is at least dubious. Somebody please start giving good news about the book.

The book provides 10 new base classes.

Intended only for humour.:
Including such surprisingly interesting options as:
  • Arcanist, AKA spontaneous-wizard
  • BloodRager, AKA spellcaster-barbarian
  • Investigator, AKA skillmonkey-rogue-replacement
  • Slayer, AKA dmg-dealing-rogue-replacement
  • Swashbuckler, AKA daring-do-rogue-replacement
  • Brawler, AKA no-mysticism-monk
  • Shaman, AKA not-nature-only-druid
  • Skald, AKA heavy-metal-bard(anger-management issues optional?)
  • Warpriest, AKA non-LG-paladin (it's a good thing)
  • Hunter, AKA ranger-druid-guy(the druids said she was something completely new, but I am skeptical).

Most of the new classes I am excited about playing (Arcanist, BloodRager, Warpriest, Shaman, Investigator, Slayer), and the rest I would consider for the right character idea (unlike, for example, the summoner). Also, the book provides new abilities and archetypes for existing classes, new feats, new spells, and new items (might be wrong on the items).

Finally and perhaps most importantly, A Tale of Two Covers.


thejeff wrote:
Nicos wrote:

It seems there is a feat that let you add your charisma bonus to ALL saves...but only if you are a divine caster.

I haev not read it myself, but does anyone can think in a world where that feat is remotely balanced? (specially after no generic dex to damage feat?)

A world in which casters rule?

*pulls pin from word-grenade*

*drops word-grenade in conversation*
[music]Cools guys don't look at explosions...[/music]


Nicos wrote:

It seems there is a feat that let you add your charisma bonus to ALL saves...but only if you are a divine caster.

I haev not read it myself, but does anyone can think in a world where that feat is remotely balanced? (specially after no generic dex to damage feat?)

[jk]Keeps people from having to dip two levels in Paladin. /shrug[/jk]

Actually, I don't really like any of the "replace X stat mod with Y stat mod" abilities and feats (though I admit some are needed in the current system). I would prefer for some flexibility as part of the core system (e.g., finesse weapons can use either STR or DEX) as opposed to the constant barrage of replacements in an attempt to help out MAD classes and corner cases. If you make enough exceptions to the base rules, someone will find a way to leverage the exception in a way it was not intended to be used. Better to build a more flexible base system with a set of fundamental design rules.


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The alignment in parentheses after each race is the predominant (but not restrictive) alignment for those races.

Core 5: Elf(CG), Dwarf(LG), Human(none), Orc(CN), Goblin(NE)

These cover basic fantasy character races and provide good, bad, and indifferent tendencies (all without including a certain subterranean race that feel a lot like variant-elf). I would be in favor of having only these 5 to start then expand to include more specifically flavored race options.

If forced to choose 7, I would also include: Aasimar(NG), Tiefling(N)

These options push toward a more planar setting and could probably be replaced with more generic races.

No half races:
I am not a big fan of the half races and would rather do without them. They seem to encourage the forcible insemination of an unwilling partner in the characters background (which is a theme I'd rather discourage). They are also defined by mixing their two progenitor races which leaves them without a unique identity (especially Half-Elves).

As expansions, I think the monster races (especially natural lycanthropes), the elemental-touched races, and more plane-touched are very interesting options for more specific campaigns. Some would also probably like android races and arcane-touched races as well.


FancyZergling wrote:
If you could choose only 8 Pathfinder classes to keep, what 8 Would they be and why?

First off, all of this is my personal opinion and has no effect on your ability to play and enjoy your preferred classes. Now let's get to the why of it all!

I chose these classes, because they all lend toward a variety of interesting options for characters. I was surprised that I ended up with 4 divine casters (I prefer arcane characters).

The Sorcerer, Wizard, and Arcanist overlap too much to have all three. The Arcanist feels like the middle point and probably the most interesting to play.

We need to have that "fueled by battle rage" type and the Bloodrager is more interesting to me than the Barbarian (but I favor arcane typically, ymmv).

An amazingly versatile class that can easily fit any role for any party in any setting. This guy can be a true master switch hitter and even switch role character. Change out your judgements and get +dmg, +hit, +AC, +whatever_I_need_right_now! Good spell selection and interesting class options with enough skill ranks to potentially have RP skills.

Skill monkey, alchemical dabbler, skilled strategist, competent combatant. This class fills in some needed roles RP-wise and has enough going to be a strong option for the roles it fills mechanics-wise.

I went back and forth a bit on this and the Cleric. I am not a fan of the curses (too many are either pointless or overpowered). However, I think the Mystery and Bloodline class features are more interesting than the Domain and School class features. Also, spontaneous casting is typically better for newer players (and well-liked by many veteran players). Overall, I feel the Oracle package was better than the Cleric package. Though I will add that I have played even numbers of Oracles and Clerics.

I have always felt the Druid was a weak base class in terms of RP versatility. The Druid features heavily favor a few options and leave many out. The various Shaman archetypes have tried to fix this, but fall a bit short of the goal. The Shaman class feels like a much stronger class in terms of RP versatility and competitive in terms of power balance.

Fighting guy with flavor. I would add a weaponmaster archetype, but this is my preference of the various fighting guy options. He makes a great combatant, can know...skills, has plenty of feat options through rogue talents and ranger feats.

More divine caster than the Paladin, more a champion for your (non-LG) deity than a Paladin, more versatile in viable weapon options than anyone. Great spell selection with the ability to really use these spells in melee while still being the frontliner. The various blessings are just icing on my favorite divine class. In summary, I like this class a lot!


I would hope that both the Bloodrager must be draconic and that Dragon Disciple progresses the bloodrager's bloodline.


8 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

I was wondering if the draconic bloodrager bloodline is increased by the Dragon Disciple Blood of Dragons ability. RAW it seems that it does not since the ability references sorcerer levels. However, I believe it was mentioned during the playtest that items, feats, and abilities that affect a parent class's ability (bloodrager has barbarian and sorcerer as parent classes) would also affect the ACG class's abilities of the same name (bloodline in this case). This would mean it might be intended to also affect the Bloodrager despite the restrictive wording of the original ability (which would make a very interesting prestige class option).

Though I am primarily asking for a general ruling, I am also interested in the PFS ruling as well.


Just thought I would throw out there for those claiming larger numbers of dice will be more difficult. All you have to do to eliminate unwanted dice is pair two dice with the same result as (d1-d2) which gives 0, then multiply this 0 to all of the dice you don't need. So, (d1-d2)*(d3+d4+...dn).

For those who are worried about finding a matching pair of dice: If you roll 7 d6, at least two must result in the same value. This means at 7 ranks you are guaranteed to be able to produce a 0. Once you reach 10+ ranks, you will have a 0 and plenty of dice left over to get the number you want. At 20 ranks, it is probably an infinitely small chance, if not outright impossible, to not be able to make any of the given numbers.


Dragon Disciple gets +2 that is "gained as if through level advancement."

EDIT: Also, mythic rules grant stat increases for leveling (+2 at every even tier for a total of +10 possible) and for one of the universal path abilties available at 3rd tier (+2 to one stat).

EDIT 2: So, I see the following available:

40 TOTAL (20th level w/o mythic tiers):

18 base ability
+2 racial (human, elf, half-elf, half-orc, and others I'm sure)
+5 level
+6 enhancement (headband typically)
+5 inherent (wish or tome)
+2 profane (questionable deal with least you'll die with a smile?)
+2 dragon disciple

52 TOTAL (20th level with 10 mythic tiers):

<same as above>
+10 mythic tiers
+2 universal path ability


You could also incorporate the Scrollmaster Wizard archetype which allows you to use scrolls as a short sword with an enhancement bonus of 1/2 the level of the spell on the scroll (0 and 1st level scrolls count as masterwork).


The lich has several options.

  • Use her melee touch attack once per round to heal herself for 1d8 +1/2 HD negative energy.
  • Use UMD to activate a wand or scroll of inflict wounds.
  • Purchase (or murder-steal) a potion of inflict wounds.
  • Hire, Dominate, or use Leadership to get a divine caster cohort who can heal her.
  • Use limited wish or wish.
  • Summon an outsider who can cast inflict wounds (or other negative energy damage spells).
  • Plane shift to a plane with the negative-dominant energy trait.

There are surely other methods, but these are probably the most common routes. The melee touch attack should cover most needs. Consumables or limited wish or even wish should cover more dire circumstance. If the lich is planning to do any serious campaigning for evil then she will likely find an evil or neutral divine caster who can use negative energy to heal her. Alternatively, she could just set up a contingency that plane shift's her to the plane of negative energy and chill in the constant healing until she is ready to go back to campaigning for her own evil ends.


The damage is probably competitive. Rogue with twf is getting two hits at 1d6+str+1d6(sneak) with a -2 att. A barbarian with a greatsword is getting 2d6+1.5xstr+3(power attack) with a -1 to att. It is also worth noting your rogue probably has a +1-2 str bonus and the barbarian is going to have a +5-6 str bonus (when raging). Thus your rogue gets on average 16-18 dmg per full attack and the barbarian gets on average 17-19 dmg per full attack. The barbarian also does not need to flank, can move and still get his 1 attack per round, has an attack bonus higher than your rogue (higher modifier from his ranging str and power attack is -1 vs -2 for twf), and he will deal more damage on an AOO. A fighter is getting the same damage as the barbarian minus the 2 points of raging str. A ranger is the same as a fighter with regards to dmg, at this level, except against his favored enemy when he is closer to the barbarian.

The rogue has competitive damage at this level, but will soon get eclipsed by most classes and their damage is reliant on a situational ability (sneak attack) that requires strategic movement to get in place as well as requiring cooperative allies.


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Rylar wrote:
I like the idea of a force mage. Not sure what class I would go with, but at low levels toppling magic missile is my signature spell.

I suggest Human Evocation Wizard. I also made a quick list of spells which have force effects.

List of Force Spells:
cantrip - scoop
1st - magic missile, shield, floating disk, mage armor, shock shield
2nd - cushioning bands, admonishing ray
3rd - ablative barrier, force anchor, battering blast, chain of perdition, force punch, tiny hut, twilight knife
4th - resilient sphere
5th - interposing hand, wall of force
6th - symbol of sealing, forceful hand, leashed shackles
7th - forcecage, grasping hand, mage's sword
8th - clenched fist, telekinetic sphere
9th - mage's excellent enclosure, crushing hand

*Bolded spells are choices I suggest.

If you want to be particularly blasty then being an orc bloodline varisian tatoo sorcerer(choose evocation) would also strongly benefit you. You could also add crossblooded with draconic or elemental to up one particular element. You would also want the standard feats and traits that any blaster would want. Switching from standard evocation to admixture also gives you a lot of versatility. There is really not going to be much variety among blasters.

I am also fond of the fighter 1/wizard 5/eldritch knight. I prefer to select scorching ray as my weapon of choice and put all fighter feats toward rays (weapon focus(ray), etc.). However, the rogue 3/wizard 3/arcane trickster will out damage the eldritch knight, and you could use one level of assassin to gain entry to arcane trickster a level early.


The Double Crossbow gets to at best 2 bolts per round fired as the same action. This might be nice for a Vital Strike build, but is otherwise very lackluster for the feat investment.

Perhaps a unique magic crossbow which can be used as a swift action to split a bolt into two bolts on the next attack. The two bolts are treated as though fired separately during the same action. The crossbow would need to have a pretty significant cost associated to warrant the ability (along the lines of adding the speed weapon quality). The weapon would make mid to high level crossbowman on par with longbow wielders and slightly behind composite-longbow wielders.


I think a Human Urban Ranger with the archery combat style (better feat options than crossbow style imo) follower of Abadar (favored weapon is light crossbow) would be a fun character and competent combatant.

STR 12 (12 base)
DEX 16 (14 base +2 racial)
CON 14 (14 base)
INT 14 (13 base + 1 level)
WIS 13 (13 base)
CHA 12 (12 base)

1: Point Blank Shot
1: Precise Shot
2: Rapid Reload
3: Rapid Shot
5: Deadly Aim
6: Improved Precise Shot
7: Clustered Shots
9: Weapon Focus(light crossbow)
10: Point Blank Master

By 5th level, the difference between the crossbow and the composite longbow is STR bonus to damage and rapid reload instead of manyshot. While this makes the crossbow strictly inferior in damage potential, the crossbowman is slightly less MAD by needing only DEX instead of DEX and STR. You also have the option to fire one-handed which the longbow wielder lacks. All in all, if you want the best damage potential it is the composite longbow (gaining a boost to all dmg rolls and an effective extra attack worth of dmg from manyshot), but the crossbow is a viable ranged weapon (munchkins need not apply).

I think the crossbow could be fixed by houseruling manyshot to work for crossbows as well. For those who are stuck to a strictly realistic world (with magic and dragons of course) then add a new type of crossbow which can be fitted with two bolts. The new crossbow would require special training to use in this manner (i.e., manyshot). This would significantly reduce the difference in damage potential between the weapon types. The major difference between the weapons would be the 1-2 feats depending on which crossbow and how you get reduced load time.

I am also in favor of ruling that all bows and crossbows add the user's DEX bonus to damage. Composite bows would replace DEX with STR making them a good choice for switch hitters and as a backup ranged weapon for STR-based classes. I would also be fine with banning Clustered Shots, but now I'm getting off topic.


Summon the creature using a line of effect which extends above the wall.

I am fine with using the raw that the hole must be at least 1 square foot, and the wall of force must be continuous and unbroken. However, you could still leave a hole in the roof of your dome. The hole would just need to be larger than I had expected.


Wall of Force is a wall with no roof. As such, the line of effect merely extends over the wall and to the target (like an archer would shoot over the wall). If the caster is making a dome, then the caster simply needs to leave a small opening (1-2 inches is more than enough) in the dome for creating line of effect. Since spells are magically guided it really doesn't matter where the hole is located.


For a blaster, I would recommend tattooed sorcerer, crossblooded draconic/orc or draconic/elemental bloodline, and the following feats.

Human 1 - Spell Focus
1 - Spell Specialization
Tatooed Sorcerer 1 - Varisian Tatoo
3 - Greater Spell Focus
5 - Elemental Spell
7 - Empower Spell
bloodline 7 - Improved Initiative
9 - Spell Penetration
11 - Quicken Spell
13 - Greater Spell Penetration
bloodline 13 - Still Spell
15 - Spell Perfection

Spells to use with spell specialization
1st - Burning Hands
2nd - Scorching Ray
3rd - Fireball/Lightning Bolt
4th - Fireball/Lightning Bolt
5th - Cone of Cold
6th - Chain Lightning
7th+ - go crazy!

I also really enjoy the various hand spells (interposing hand etc). Which are fairly high level spells, but very fun and classic evocation.

EDIT: Also, don't forget to really plunder the evocation spell list. There are some gems in there like telekinetic charge which are really great spells and not just direct-damage. The illusion line is great, but you would want your feats will vary if you really want to rely on those illusions (they kinda suck if your opponent notices the illusion part).


I have run some high level games and a campaign with 6 players (not both at same time).

For higher level games, I try to make sure that I am very familiar with the monster's abilities. Playing the monster to its strength can often be the difference between challenging and trivial. You can also stagger the flood of enemies allowing the players to pick off a few before the next set. This reduces the number of active combatants at any given time and keeps the party engaged (challenged).

For a group of 6, I found that the biggest difference was the amount of damage that the group produced. I increased the HP of every creature by 50-100% and things leveled out a bit. With an extra 2 characters hitting the enemies they were just dying too quickly.

In general, I expect combats to last 3-4 rounds. I have had a combat that lasted 30+ rounds (it was intended to last the entire session and ended a major portion of a campaign) and combats which lasted one PC's action. Typically, the goal is to catch the party off guard and/or not let them prepare. A pre-buffed party initiating combat will typically win swiftly (i.e., one round give or take a surprise round).


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"Tiamat is not worshiped on Golarion. All dragons live in fear of her, and none willingly name her."


Prestige classes based around the sorcerer bloodlines like Dragon Disciple is in PFRPG (as opposed to the 3.5 version which was based on becoming a half-dragon through class levels).

I have started making several homebrew options built on a few of the bloodline options I find more personally interesting. Most of these classes focus on providing full caster level in addition to unique abilities.


I don't see why a ray being a sacred weapon is an issue. Best case, you have a higher die roll on a cantrip. This would be a concern if the warpriest was able to stack other damage bonuses on the ray. The best ray builds I have been able seen are still along the lines of expected damage from a similar level fighter (at best) and typically require using non-cantrip spells to be comparable. These builds require levels in casting classes and prestige classes to get the bonus dmg. Thus the warpriest levels get slacked off and the sacred weapon damage boost makes little difference if any. The spell must have a die less than the warpriest sacred weapon die to get any benefit. There are very few ray spells which benefit would from this ability, and those that do are going to fall short on damage comparably without picking up other damage bonuses.

A 20th level warpriest choosing to cast a 2d8 dmg cantrip is not really a concern. Similarly, a 1st level warpriest choosing to cast a 1d6 dmg cantrip is not an issue.


Save or Die effects I use extremely sparingly and only at high enough level resurrection is possible. Once spells like breath of life come online this is acceptable for me, but only occasionally.

It is never ok to use a single spell which could potentially kill more than 2 players outright (e.g., circle of death).

Also, anti-magic field, mage's dysjunction, wish, and similar spells that can remove the players equipment and/or abilities en masse even temporarily are not acceptable. This problem is exacerbated at higher levels. Consider a 20th level fighter who enters an antimagic field and loses all magic enhancements to armor and weapons, ring, amulet, headband, belt, cloak, boots, and any ioun stones. This could result in a -5 att/dmg, -18 ac, -5 all saves, and losing many other bonuses such as various armor and weapon abilities. The single casting has just destroyed the fighter and meanwhile the opposing side may have giants, dragons, or any other of a long list of magic free creatures that can walk over and rip the fighter to shreds. A spellcaster loses nearly all spells; non-spellcasting classes lose access to SU abilities and SLAs (e.g., totem rage powers). These abilities can end encounters just as easily as save or die, but the players get to watch their carefully crafted characters get ripped apart.

Shenanigans that can take a character out of the campaign exist and are sometimes mentioned as great tactics for PCs. One odd example is plane shift on a fighter to a random location on a random plane. The party is so unlikely to find him that you would essentially need divine intervention to reasonably explain it. The character has basically been targeted by a save or die effect which removes any chance of resurrection.

Finally, I am ok with mind control effects, but long term control effects should be something the players are aware of as a possibility and given time to prepare defenses against. As an example, I ran Castle Ravenloft recently and made it plain that he could control people and the players were aware of the general setting before starting the game. At no point was I concerned about using his mind controlling ability and probably should have made more use of it in key situations.

In summary, I think the biggest concern here is to make sure whatever you use the players feel that they had a chance to win and weren't reliant on a single roll of the dice to determine win/loss or blindsided by uncounterable abilities/effects. Dice add variability to the game and help keep players engaged, but seeing a Paladin with a will save higher than the DC of a death spell fail due to rolling a 1 is possible but not acceptable (imo). The DM is there to make the game fun as much as enforce rules. The toughest issue I have faced as a DM is making encounters that feel like the players could have died at any point, but not actually ending the campaign.

Typically, an ability which is a single roll or no roll (e.g., anti-magic field) to determine the outcome of the encounter (and especially campaign ending) even for one or two characters should be used sparingly or not at all. If the players have been given ample opportunity to prepare to defend against a tactic (e.g., the vampire ruling these lands is known to be able to control others minds) then the tactic is reasonable even if the players fail to prepare. Not wearing armor to fight an ogre doesn't make fighting ogres unreasonable.


Typically, when you level many of your stats will change. Skills, HP, BAB, saves, stats (str, dex, con, etc.), and spells are the most common to change, but many stats will be altered and some will cascade to others (e.g., BAB affects cmb, cmd, and weapon attack bonuses). This is good though as it typically represents your character becoming more powerful. Higher BAB means it is easier to hit and harder to be targeted by combat maneuvers of opponents (e.g., trip).

I have not read the beginners box, but it is intended to give you an initial taste of how the game plays and may omit things for sake of simplicity. If you have completed these and are looking for further rules relating to building characters and running games, then I recommend picking up the Core RuleBook(CRB) and the Bestiary 1.

As for where to go from here...everywhere, anywhere, or nowhere. The core assumption of the game is that the DM sets up a world and players tell the story through their actions. The DM may setup a nefarious villain who intends to conquer the tristate area, but it is up to the players to impact the world and tell their story. Will they defeat the foe, join him, convince him to join them!?! The rules simply present a basis for adjudicating interactions in the world. For example, when you try to hit the enemy roll an attack and compare to their AC to determine if you hit. Who you are trying to hit, why you want to hit them, where you are while hitting them, and what happens next is all determined by the people playing the game, which includes the DM!

These are all my opinions and experiences feel free to tell me that I am wrong (we are on the internet after all).


As Mondoglimmer said, most sources of DR don't stack in the normal sense of the term. For example, if a character had DR 10/magic from one source and DR 10/adamantine from another source, the net result would be DR 10 magic and adamantine/ So, instead of reducing damage twice by ten for a total of 20 DR it only reduces dmg by ten total and requires the opponent to overcome both types to overcome the DR. In a sense it is simpler this way, but DR is typically limited to < 20 which is negligible at higher levels. DR can be great for lower levels(when dmg per hit is small), but is very difficult to get at lower levels.


Check out called shots.

Specifically, "Stacking: Unless otherwise stated, penalties for multiple called shots do not stack, even if they are to different areas of the body. Ability damage and drain caused by called shots always stacks." Many called shots inflict ability damage on a crit and a reasonable penalty on a normal hit.


I would choose shapechange for best option. The versatility is simply amazing. Time stop, gate, and shade are all great choices as well.

However, the spell I have been thinking about lately is crushing hand. Just a fun spell. It may end up being the first 9th level spell I pick up for my current character when we get to that point(Wrath of the Righteous campaign).


Pathfinder Player Companion: Inner Sea Primer.

d20pfsrd link

FYI, the d20pfsrd entry for any item includes a reference at the bottom of the page(typically bottom) indicating the source book.


Marthkus wrote:
Wildshape and polymorph are very tame now compared to 3.5

The rant was more about how annoying it can be in practice (altering a significant portion of character sheet depending on shape and spell/ability) as opposed to a commentary on balance issues.


My group has houseruled the crafting rules to cut down of time to craft and number of feats required. Here is the post I made in the "What are your houserules" thread. The "Time to craft mundane items" spoiler is the relevant portion for this discussion.

The houserule significant reduces the time to craft mundane and magical items. We like the idea of crafting, but prefer not to be limited by having to devote large quantities of time (or feats) towards it. We tend to play at 7+ and taking a week or more to craft a sword or piece of armor would be a ridiculous waste of time. Also, the amount of progress is determined by your rank (and modified by any increase to the target DC) and is not determined by the roll other than to determine success. Someone with 5 ranks makes things faster than someone with 1 rank. Increasing the DC gives you a percentage of the your base progress; additively increasing your total progress.


ryric wrote:
I would say the intent is to avoid having a double of the same bloodline.

I agree with that intent; but the wording is, at best, unclear.


I was looking at the Eldritch Heritage feat a little closer over the past few days and noticed an odd bit of wording.

"This bloodline cannot be a bloodline you already have."

The rules text as written would imply that you could later gain the full bloodline and have two sources granting the same bloodline power. However, the intent seems to be that you either have the feat or the bloodline. Is this wording intended to allow someone to later gain the full bloodline (from either sorcerer levels, dragon disciple, or other future sources)? or Is it intended to prevent having both concurrently and is just worded poorly?


Vivianne Laflamme wrote:
HeHateMe wrote:
Wild Shape may not be that powerful,
No, it's pretty powerful.

anti-polymorph/wildshape rant:
It is also pretty annoying to use. "And for my action this turn I have decided to rebuild my character as <insert random creature here>". This issue is not limited to the druid, but is made most obvious playing a druid who has nearly endless options when polymorphing and as expected to polymorph regularly. Anytime I play a character who can polymorph, I have to build the character both with and without the polymorph bonuses to avoid dragging gameplay to a screeching halt. This become very non-trivial for the Druid due to massive number of options (a transmutation specialist with a large set of available polymorphs has the same issue). I love how Pathfinder simplified polymorph, but it is still a clunky system for those who use many different forms.

The above rant is the primary reason why druids do not rank higher on the list for me. I would love to play such a versatile character, but the enormous number of options is both the reason I want to play one and the reason I don't actually play one. I love the idea of the caster taking advantageous forms mixed with his spellcasting (e.g., The Sword in the Stone wizard battle). As such my preferred character is going to be either sorcerer or wizard (preparing spells is less bookkeeping then rebuilding my character) until the arcanist gets an official release and similar levels of support (which is promised to come in the ACG).


wintersrage wrote:
with the transformation spell i will be attacking with a base attack equal to my level.

With 5 levels of dragon disciple, you will have just gained 4th level spells. It will be another 5 levels before you are able to cast transformation. Dragon disciple will reduce your spellcasting significantly due to the missed levels. At your level, you have access to monstrous physique II, elemental body I, beast shape II, and vermin shape I. If you want to use a weapon it would be best to go with monstrous physique II, but you will only have proficiency with simple weapons.

Typically, melee focused Dragon Disciples take levels of a full BAB class (barbarian is a good 1 level dip and paladin/ranger are great 2 level dips) and focus more on melee and not on using spells. A Dragon Disciple also benefits from relying on natural attacks due to the form of the dragon ability granting multiple natural attacks and the fact you can end up with 3 attacks at full BAB and 2+ at BAB-5. If you want to stick with the casting focus, then I would lean more heavily on natural attacks (from your claws power or from transmutation spells). This will require an Amulet of Mighty Fists at some point.


wintersrage wrote:
i forgot to mention he is going to be melee based.

Are you going to be using Armor or a weapon?


Wiggz wrote:
Ogadim wrote:
As a general rule, I don't think you can say that +1 hit ~= +2 damage. I would say that it depends on which is scaling up faster for your character between your current hit percentage against your average enemy versus your current damage output. If your (current% + hit%)/current% - 1 > (currentDamage + damage)/currentDamage - current% then the +hit will give your more average damage. If the inequality is the other way around, +damage will win out.


But again, if one is looking for a hard and fast general rule of thumb, I say it has to be taken into account that your foe isn't a single wall of limitless hit points - much more often its a group of numerous foes all with a very limited supply... and every time you kill a foe, unless you hit the number exactly right, you lose whatever benefit the bonus damage provided.

The advantage of dealing 2d6+12 damage against a foe instead of 2d6+10 when all of your foes only have 12 hit points is no advantage at all whereas a bonus to hit is never wasted.

By the same token, if you manage to exceed your foes AC by an amount equal to or greater than the bonus to hit that was traded for dmg then you have effectively lost dmg (i.e., you would have hit without the bonus to hit and the dmg would have been more beneficial). For example, a fighter with +8 BAB (power attack at -3 att and +6 dmg) beats his targets AC by 3 and he did not power attack. In this situation the fighter could have traded the hit bonus for more dmg.

However, these arguments rely on specific outcomes. The statistical analyses works based on average case to determine what is superior. This guarantees the highest rate of return in the largest number of cases. Many people prefer to boost to hit over dmg especially in 3/4 and 1/2 BAB classes to get that sense of consistency, and some prefer to go with the X4 crit weapons and boost dmg as much as possible to have those "epic" hits. These are all valid ways to play. The "+1 att = +2 dmg" rule of thumb is just meant is a basic means to quickly evaluate two options (and is pretty close to accurate in the average case).


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Rachel Carter wrote:
Nipin wrote:
How about having an intelligent item with a proclivity (word of the day) toward chaos as the end boss. The item has taken control of past contestants who now enact its will. This leads to a series of combats as you have to take out each of the items wielders to finally take control of the item yourself. With each successfully defeated wielder (which does not require death just that you wrest them from the control of the item), the item teleports itself to the next wielder. I would have the final wielder be a fallen paladin who has fallen due to the chaotic (not evil) influence of the item. This means a group who wants epic and diverse combats can get them and a group who wants more noncombat solutions can get them. The final battle is more a battle for redemption than a battle to the death. I would make the paladin much higher level than the group, but have him regain control occasionally giving the group the chance to see his true nature and to decide if they should grant him a merciful death or try to free him from the item.
cool idea, how do you make an intelligent item? how does it change the weilder?

Here is a sample intelligent item (roughly put together). Which has the power to dominate at will as well as an exceedingly high ego (meaning a difficult will save to control the item). This is nearly an artifact level item, but a lesser item wouldn't fit the bill (imo). I wouldn't be too concerned of the party using the item since it can gain control over the wielder which makes this as much of a liability as an asset.

The item has a special purpose which is "defeat all", I interpret this to be that the item is seeking to dominate other to further its cause of spreading chaos.

Weapon of Chaos:

Weapon of Chaos
Cost: 198,600gp
Ego: 30
Base Item: +2 Anarchic Longsword (32,300gp base price, +4 ego)
Intelligent Item Modifiers:
  • Intelligent item (+500 gp)
  • Senses (120 ft.) (+1,000 gp )
  • Blindsense (+5,000 gp, +1 ego)
  • Telepathy (+1,000 gp and +1 ego)
  • 20 int/wis/cha (+24,000gp and +15 ego)
  • Item can change into one other form (shortspear) of the same size (+10,000 gp, +2 ego)
  • Item can cast 1st level spell (charm monster) 3/day (+1,200 gp, +1 ego)
  • Item can cast 4th level spell 3/day (dimension door) (+33,600 gp, +2 ego)

special purpose: defeat all, item attempts to gain control of all others and use them to generate chaos (+2 ego)
special purpose power: item can use 5th level spell (dominate person) at will (+90,000 gp and +2 ego)


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How about having an intelligent item with a proclivity (word of the day) toward chaos as the end boss. The item has taken control of past contestants who now enact its will. This leads to a series of combats as you have to take out each of the items wielders to finally take control of the item yourself. With each successfully defeated wielder (which does not require death just that you wrest them from the control of the item), the item teleports itself to the next wielder. I would have the final wielder be a fallen paladin who has fallen due to the chaotic (not evil) influence of the item. This means a group who wants epic and diverse combats can get them and a group who wants more noncombat solutions can get them. The final battle is more a battle for redemption than a battle to the death. I would make the paladin much higher level than the group, but have him regain control occasionally giving the group the chance to see his true nature and to decide if they should grant him a merciful death or try to free him from the item.

Sorry that ended up a bit long winded. The basic idea is the BBEG is a chaotic intelligent item which is simply controlling random participants to further the chaos of his realm (the maze) and the maze has now become a twisted path where the very laws of our reality may even be beginning to breakdown (this becomes more true nearer to the heart of the maze).


Lemmy wrote:
Nipin wrote:
I liked when this thread was about high level math and not high level spellcasting.
To be fair, spell casting is the main reason high level math breaks down...

I disagree, the math breaks down due to scaling of modifiers outpacing the growth of typical target values (DC, AC, etc.) which make it non-trivial to challenge high level players without either guaranteeing failure for some of the group or guaranteeing success for others. In many cases this is not an issue (e.g., only your scout needs to be able to sneak past the sentry), but in common cases it causes concerns (e.g., everyone needs to be able to hit the dragon). This is the commonly held belief. Certain buffing spells do impact this issue, but the discussion has gone off-topic and is now focused on the narrative impact of spellcasters (which also significantly impacts high level play, but was not the original topic of discussion).


I liked when this thread was about high level math and not high level spellcasting.


I think the solution here is to recognize that "secondary" has an implied affect on attack bonus and str bonus for natural attacks. Making something a "secondary" natural attack grants -5 to attack and half str bonus to dmg. However, by invoking "secondary" instead of stating the attack penalty and str bonus change directly it avoids stacking the attack penalty if the weapon was already a secondary attack. Meaning that a wing attack would not end up at a -10 bonus when used in combination with a manufactured weapon.

The design intent seems to, pretty clearly, be that natural weapons have a -5 attack penalty and half str bonus to dmg when used with manufactured weapons. The wording of the rules seems to be aimed at avoiding over-penalizing secondary natural attacks.


Has there been any mention regarding whether the new classes will be receiving any Mythic support?


If you want to make the familiar available why not make it available through the arcane bloodline as well. You could forbid the bonded item if desired (though I don't feel it is an overpowered choice). I just want reiterate how poor of a choice Hand of the Apprentice is for a 1/2 BAB class and it relies on STR for dmg.

I would like to see an exploit which changes a single target spell with an ongoing effect (and possibly also harmless) to a communal version. So, you could convert mount to communal mount by expending points.

Also, could we get some way to attain immortality similar to the Wizard Arcane Discovery?


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So, I have noticed that there is almost no reason to have any measurable CHA for the arcanist. Certain blast exploits and the bloodline power are the only abilities I see which key off of CHA. I doubt many will bother with getting enough CHA to bother with the blast exploits which are CHA based saves. I feel the Arcanist needs more reason for CHA or to just swap the saves to INT.

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