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How do you conceive that individual players have more collective information than the developers who actually provided the source data that collective information?
If I may...
Collectively each individual player has more information regarding what they demand...
Freedom includes the freedom to be wrong, and the freedom to make unreasonable demands, and even the freedom to be wrong about whether demands are unreasonable.
KoTC Edam Neadenil wrote:
Do spells and maneuvers increment ability scores ?
Most do. Some of the lower level ones don't.
You can see this in the Expendables Advancement tab of the PFO Wiki - Official Data spreadsheet at Pathfinder Online (Public). If you can't see that spreadsheet directly, look at the "Copy of" it.
It's got a range of 11m but lists no damage done, but says it does acid damage and causes Oblivious 25.
Some attacks list a particular damage type in order to go against a particular resistance when applying their effects, even though they do no damage.
Oblivious reduces the target's Attack Bonus by one half the stack size, so Oblivious 25 is a 12.5 point reduction in your target's Attack Roll.
Anyone know if there are special attacks that a Fighter 4/Rogue 6 can use to take advantage of this Oblivious condition?
There don't appear to be any Attacks that have special conditions when the target is Oblivious. However, Oblivious has enough of an impact on its own that those probably aren't necessary.
Andius the Afflicted wrote:
If I left for a year, came back and discovered I needed to do a year worth of grinding mobs to get to the strength of those who killed them during general play over the course of the year... I would be pretty pissed too.
Considering that Valkenr is on the verge (and might already have achieved) Longbow Expert 9 (6,250 kills with a Longbow), and that I managed to get Arcane Expert 8 in one of the prior builds and already have Arcane Expert 7 in this build even though I've been spending far more time working on the WikiData than playing, I'm having a hard time understanding how you could ever need to do "a year worth of grinding mobs".
Correct me if I'm wrong, Andius, but when you wrote that "No Grinding" blurb, you were very much talking about XP-Grinding. At least, that's what it sounds like.
It seems somewhat unfair to act as if Goblinworks promised us that we would never have to grind mobs to get Recipes or Expendables or Achievements, or that we would never have to grind resource nodes to farm enough resources to single-handedly equip our guild with better gear (I'm looking at you, Valkenr).
Andius the Afflicted wrote:
What I'm seeing is that I can spend 5 years increasing the combat effectiveness of a single character build...
I think the big difference is that you're looking at it from the perspective of their being a "cap" on effectiveness. If I'm understanding you, you want other players to be able to reach that cap and be "100% effective" in a given, narrowly focused Role within 3-6 months. The way I see it, there's a very long tail where you can spend lots and lots of XP for extremely minor improvements. I have no problem thinking that someone has "caught up" when they're 85% effective compared to my 94%.
I will once again recommend that we utilize factual data rather than "impressions".
How much XP does it take for a Character (Adam) to "max out" their Combat Effectiveness?
How much XP does it take for a new Character (Betty) to utilize a Tier 2 Weapon and Tier 2 Armor?
What is the differential in damage output when Adam and Betty square off, when both are wearing appropriate Tier 2 Gear? And what is the differential when Adam is wearing appropriate Tier 3 Gear?
It's probably worth quoting this old post from Ryan again.
@Xeen, thanks for posting this. I don't necessarily agree with everything you're asking for, but it's nice to see a post like this that really goes out of its way to address the counterarguments, and to acknowledge all the hard work from a very small team of developers.
Graphics - I've heard the same complaints. I have friends who won't even try the Alpha because the graphics don't have the polished look they've come to expect from "Triple A" MMOs.
At the same time, I've noticed the constant improvement in the graphics since Alpha 1. And I have no doubt that the art team is acutely aware of the areas they'd like to improve, and I'm sure they'd love to have a team of 100 artists and a few years to improve them.
Achievements - I understand the concerns, but I disagree with what you're asking for. This kind of gating is something we've known about from the very beginning. I would ask you to seriously consider whether your request that PvPers never have to engage in PvE is any different from someone else's request that PvEers never have to engage in PvP. Everyone is going to have to deal with constraints they'd rather not have to deal with, but those constraints are a large part of what makes the game work.
Classes - I'm probably more inclined to defer to Ryan's judgment, but I definitely see where you're coming from and would have a hard time arguing against anything you said here.
PvP - I agree with you in principle. There needs to be a way for folks who want to PvP to do so without trashing their Reputation. I'm even inclined to support your suggested solution.
Crafting and Drops - Again, I'd have a hard time making an argument against what you're asking for. I don't see any harm in flooding the market with Tier 1 +0 gear.
Allow a Focus - I very strongly agree. I would prefer not to have to dabble in Gathering, Refining, or Crafting just to get the Ability Score increases I need to advance as a Wizard. If there are good reasons to force this, I don't understand them.
Finally, I want to reiterate that I think you were largely successful in your attempt to provide constructive criticism.
You can only slot Primary Attacks from your Main Hand Weapon. These go in slots 1-3.
If you only have one Weapon equipped, then you can only slot Secondary Attacks from your Main Hand Weapon in slots 4-6.
If you have an Off-Hand Weapon equipped, then you can only slot Secondary Attacks from your Off-Hand Weapon in slots 4-6.
You will never be able to slot Primary Attacks from your Off-Hand Weapon.
I'm not sure if any of that spoke to your concerns, but it seemed relevant.
It's great to see folks filling this in, thanks. I don't do much Crafting myself, or I'd be filling it in too.
On that note, I've been told that the +0 through +3 Recipes all produce the same quantity of items. If I can get some verification of this from the community, I'll remove the pluses from the list, which should make it a bit easier to find what you're looking for, and to enter the data.
If you're confident that all Refining Recipes of the same name always produce the same quantity of Refined Components, regardless of the plus value at the end of the name, please let me know by posting here.
I completely agree with you, Mbando. I may not have been clear enough in my prior post, but I consider it one of the Great Human Tragedies that it is the way it is, even though it seems to be almost necessary, and is probably universally applicable to everyone who has ever contemplated "What is Right?" Learning to forgive oneself is hard, especially for those who are the most sincere in their desire to do what is right.
Junior Halfling wrote:
Could we get one more field in the "Recipes (Refining)" and "Recipes (Crafting)" sheets? I would like to see the resulting quantity of items produced.
Thanks for the appreciation, but really the thanks should go to the devs for sharing much of this data with us directly.
I'd like to include Qty Produced, but that's not available directly from the devs and I don't have an alternate source for it yet.
If anyone wants to make a spreadsheet that lists Qty Produced for Refining Recipes and share* it with me, I'll gladly incorporate it into the data.
* To share it, just make it viewable by anyone with the link and post the link here. I'll move it into the Pathfinder Online (Public) folder so everyone can see it directly, and I'll also include it when I build my DataSets for the wiki.
The thing that really strikes me about those events is that there seems to be a correlation between being a good leader and feeling that stress. That is, a leader who was more likely to not feel ashamed and harshly self-judgmental would probably, in my opinion, be less of a leader. There are all kinds of corollaries to that in other areas, but the general pattern of the folks most concerned with doing the right thing being the most bothered by any self-perceived failure on their part to do so is something that occupies a fair bit of my mindspace.
Hobson Fiffledown wrote:
... don't let the big A get you down.
By "the big A", do you mean the Alpha?
Beta Burnout is a fairly common illness for mmo addicts, or should I say players. First you soar on that high then you crash. A couple of weeks break should fix it.
I like that "mmo addicts, or should I say players" :)
Although my personal experience of following the development of Pathfinder Online closely for almost three years without significant break* may not be "normal", I agree that a bit of a break may help.
* It's pretty easy for me to determine what my average number of posts per day is, but I'm suddenly very curious about the maximum number of days (might actually need to measure hours) I've gone without posting.
There's no point in making a +5 implement which allows for up to 7 levels of expendables when you're limited to 6 slots and level 1 spells >8-]
I'm confused about that last bit; why would anyone be limited to Level 1 Spells? I have a Level 2 Spell and a Level 3 Spell already learned just waiting for a Spellbook that can hold them.
Drake Brimstone wrote:
Um, I thought the killing blow requirement was your group needed to get the killing blow. I know we have been avoiding groups because of it bugging recipe's but didn't they fix that?
When getting MonsterKill Achievements (Goblin Slayer, Bandit Slayer, etc.) the entire group gets credit. For Expert Achievements (Arcane Expert, Longbow Expert, etc.) only the Character who gets the killing blow gets credit.
I haven't been able to verify that the group bug on Recipes and Spells is fixed, but I think it is.
From the article:
Sounds like the same Spike & Crash that Ryan's been talking about from the beginning, and been working to avoid with PFO.
Rorin Doombringer wrote:
... on the Kauri server...
My old server, too, although I didn't play all that long. If you remember a Wookie named Chiirymatharry, that was me. Some friends were Drrlo, Torg Smith, Mai'kess Kifoo (love that name!), Ithamar, and others but I'm having trouble remembering their names.
Anyone else keep thinking of that scene from Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan?
It is our intention to apply some of the real world lessons learned in our major cities by focusing on "broken windows" - that is, stopping minor transgressions of our social behavior policies before they escalate out of hand. It is my opinion that doing so will reduce antisocial behavior substantially. People who want to be anonymous jerks will not get much pleasure out of being quickly and unceremoniously silenced, booted, or banned. Without the ability to encite "rage & tears", those folks will have no good reason to haunt Pathfinder Online.
Part of the goal we have to have as a community is explaining to people who get whacked why and to give some meaning to the loss or to ID players who are just whacking people for the lulz and either seek to reform them or excise them.
We are going to break this pattern and we are going to redefine those preconceptions. In order to do that we must repeatedly and powerfully shock the system. One of those shocks is a negative feedback loop that links random killing to gimping character development.
Ryan says "build process" a lot. Could someone give me a description of what that looks like or entails? I'm just curious.
The Build Process basically involves compiling all the checked-in code changes into however many discrete executables and libraries are required. Often, it also includes Deployment to various staging locations for testing. It can even include running automated tests. It's one of those things that's probably different for every development team, and highly tailored to their particular needs.
Caldeathe Baequiannia wrote:
Will people who have been invited to Alpha, but don't (yet) have enrollment accounts, continue to have access when the "enrollees" are brought in shortly, or will that be a separate stage of "Alpha" open only to those who have permanent access of some kind?
... we are going to open the game (but NOT the forums - see below) to all players that have Open, Explorer, Early and Alpha access (and of course all the people who have received Alpha invites will continue to have access).
Hrm... I probably shouldn't have posted anything at all. I certainly didn't mean it as a judgment on the tenor of Urman's post. I apologize for any confusion I caused.
It seems obvious to me that Goblinworks cannot adjust their plans according to the demands of a single customer, no matter how adamantly those demands are made.
Gol Phyllain wrote:
There is no open pvp. You make yourself worthless when you attack anyone who isn't flagged for pvp. At this point it mine as well be a PvE WoW server.
Just a reminder that the current system is better than starting out as a murder simulator. There will be plenty of PvP once the War of Towers starts up, even if there's never enough "Open PvP" to suit some folks.
On a related note: Ideascale - Allow us to flag ourselves without losing Reputation.
It would be really, really awesome if we could get a simple /flag command that would make use consequence-free kills. It doesn't need to operate any differently than the current flagging system, it just needs to apply the Aggressor or Murderer Flag (whichever is simpler, really).
I would love to spend an evening practicing PvP with various builds, but don't want to tank my Reputation to do it. I was fortunate in that I was able to lose Reputation twice with Sspitfire and stay above 0 Rep.
Stephen Cheney wrote:
Hrm. I'm working from the Effects that Valkenr pulled out of one of the early Alpha Guides. If it's not too much trouble, I'd love to see an official Effects table in your spreadsheet.
Exhausted (Stacking Debuff) This debuff represents exhaustion due to electric attacks and other painful attacks that “knock the wind out of” the target. It penalizes maximum Stamina. Reduces max Stamina by amount equal to [Stack Size] and proportionately lowers Stamina regeneration
There's still a very significant difference because 65 Stamina completely rules out certain attacks (30 Stamina locks out quite a few more), whereas 130 Stamina doesn't really have the same kind of impact.
Doc || GenAknosc wrote:
At some point the lack of need to immediately train anything will make the reputation system (as currently spec'ed out) a nullified barrier to unchecked PvP ganking.
The Reputation system is not meant to be a "silver bullet" that cures griefing. It's one part of a multi-layered approach. Probably the most important part of that multi-layered approach is the general attitude of the community.
T7V Jazzlvraz wrote:
Uhm, yeah :) (notes the Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber tag next to his name above)
The Pathfinder Adventure Card Game is a lot of fun, and I've enjoyed playing it with my wife, who also really, really enjoys it. As with most things along these lines, more people = more fun.