Apostle of Gygax wrote:
THis post is pretty conclusive. Whypeople continued arguing afther this?
If you do the math for all the low level spells in the game and all the possible amount of charges, you will find that that poor village is in fact a really wealthy place.
I can not speak for other people styles, but ast least when I am DMging if I describe it as normal village It would not be filled with dozens partial wands.
Veldan Rath wrote:
It would help, but it would help in the wrong direction. The people that most enjoy playing rogues choose the class not by its combat prowess.
Can you post your build?
I have seen you do this before. You try to blame other things instead to blame paizo folks for their mistakes.
I love this game, I think it is mostly fine, and I pretty much prefer pathfinder over 3.5, but the pathfinder monk was bad designed, period.
except when you do
"Wearing a Blindfold: The foe cannot see the creature at all (also possible to achieve by turning one's back on the creature or shutting one's eyes). The creature with the gaze attack gains total concealment against the opponent."
I do not know if stealth is a big problem in PFS but I have never had an issue with the stealth skill in pathfinder. My opinion is that stealth would not work only in the games with people that are consistently looking ways to break the game.
I find bards to be mechanically very solid but the fluff seems silly to me.
Wizards have magic du to their intense study of the arcane, Sorceres have the heritage of magical creatures, Clerics are the mortal vessel of the divine, etc...
At least in 2e bards were like wizards. They learned magic due to their curiosity and study. But in 3E/PF bards have magaic ...because?? (the same goes for rangers)
The problem hera are not the stats. The stats are fine, you would have less powerfull but still playable character.(I particulary would have played a paladin azata-based assimar with 15in dex and cha).
The problem is the trust, did he rolled in yur precense or what?
at 17 level? and if you do that if you leave your rage off at the end of your turn then how is superstition helping you?
I find your post hilarious, really. " I am the DM and if you do not do exactly th thing I have planned for you then I will kill your Pcs".
If they get TPKed while fighting the BBEG that is fine provided the DM run the encounter fairly, not for DM-rage as you advice.
the fighter do not need to buy mithral (unnless he is heavily dex based)
Instead of buying a 30000 gp armor the fighter could buy
+3 full plate (10,500): the same ac
Cape of the free thinker (12000): Improving a lot the defense against mind affecting spells.
Craked pale grism Ioun stone (4000): for better saves
Wayfinder + clear spindle Ioun stone (4500): Protection from evil-like effect against mental possession.
SO, at this point the fighter have much better will save than the ranger who preferred to move at full speed in full plate buying a mithral celestial full plate.
As it is your challenge is ludicrous. You are tryng to present it as something you can face in a real campaing, but it is not. maybe the ecounter can happen, but there is no way it develope like you say.
The party is fighting a BBEG and 10 mook. lets. asumming 4 party members (wiard, cleric, fighter and the monk) at 11th level.
the absurd part is that you mix the thing over and over so no real answer is posible.
lets revise it step by step, For exampel against the lions.
You want the monk to kill the lions in lest than 2 turn each. - that is fine.
At the same time the lions are charging and retreating - I just think yours desription do not work. If they charge they do damage and probably die te last round. If they do not then they are not protecticng te BBEG.
For some reason the monk is the only one fighting the lion (that is fine) but at the same time the lions are attking the rest of the group, and you want to make the monk responsable for the health of the rest. -
- this is absurd. If you want to see how the monk fight against 10 dire lions that is fine, but you can not say that lions are attaking the whole party but and at the same time the monk is the only one fighting the lions . As i said above a single spell fom the wizard end the fight.
So, if yu can not make a reasonable encounter then the challenge is pointless.
Scott Betts wrote:
Yes you have been over this. that does not means you have been right.
Thomas Long 175 wrote:
Fact is, if you're using your turn to attack minions, you're wasting your turn.
This is a bold statement that is just not always true. Sometimes the best way to reach the BBEG is to finish the mooks first.
The barbarian in the example did have DR/1-, he was not invulnerable rager (Uncanny dodge help him to avoid several sneak attacks in other fight so he can not complain about it).And not everyone have superstition. It seems like all the options for barbarian are an illusion since superstition+best totems + invulnerable rager is the only really great combo for barbarians.
I do not know about rangers, the ranger in that campaing had a solid AC and a wand of cure light wounds.
Not every barbarian out there have the beast totem rage powers, the diference in AC can be huge. Against single BBEG there could be not much difrence, the BBEG tend to have a high attack so he can hit low or high AC, but against a lot of minions the diference can be high. In the red hand of doom example I post before, 8 hobgoblin archers did 12 damage to the 22 AC paladin butdid 40 damage to the raging barbarian.
Rangers get hitter more than fighter but have evasion and healing spells to compensate.
EDIT: The importat thingis that, with the excetion of paladins, fighter do not need more healing that the others full BAB.
Azaelas Fayth wrote:
In my experience barbarians are theones who nees more and more healing.
you are wrong about the speed in armors
CRB said wrote:
So a paladin in medium armor (like mithral full plate) will be slower than a fighter. A paladin can go in mithral breastplate and retain his speed but will have a lower AC.
About spells. Paladin is a great class, probably stronger than fighter (not by much I believe) but casting spells is not always so easy. Peole can not always buff before the fight, much less if it requires multiple standar actions. And what if the mosnter have reach? a paladin most likely will fail his concentration check.
EDIT 1: About that red hand of doom campaing. At least the paladin have a good Ac an recived just like 12 point of damage. The ragin barbarian with AC 15 in the same situation recived around 40 points of damage.
Every class have its strengh and its weakness
EDIT 2: About mithral full plates. That cost money. why is bad for a Fighter to try to overcome his weakness with money but it is fine for everyone else.
A ranger, barbarian, paladin, cavalier can spend 4000 gp to retain full speed in medium armor. Saving a little more, a fighter with 4,500 gp can buy inmuniy against mental control from evil creatures with a wayfinder.
If the paladin buy a mithral full plate with 10000, the fighter could buy the above mentioned wayfinder, and a couple of skills items to overome some of his lack of skills points.
with baseline do you mean core?
Cause lets see what a couple of option the barbarian loses if we remove non-core material:
and now lets see rangers:
Instant enemy. Two handed, shield, mounted and naturar styles. boon companion, a lot of spells.
What figter loses: Gloves of dueling.
if you want to compare classes in core do it fair.
This one is from the last rogue thread
Half-Orc Rogue (Thug/Scout) 11
N Medium Humanoid
=== Stats ===
Str 20 (24),Dex 12,con 14,Int 10,Wis 14, Cha 8
=== Defense ===
=== Saves ===
=== Offense ===
+3 Adamantine Falchion: +21/ +13 (2d4+22 15-20 x2)
bite +13 (1d4+6 20x2)
Sneak attack: +6d6
=== Feats, taits and talents===
=== Skills ===
Acrobatics +19, stealth +15, perception +18, Swim +13, Climb +12, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +14, Intimidate +27, Sense motive +16, Survival +13.
=== Special ===
that deals 1d4 points of piercing damage. This racial trait replaces orc ferocity.
Whenever a thug successfully uses Intimidate to demoralize a creature, the duration of the shaken condition is increased by 1 round. In addition, if the target is shaken for 4 or more rounds, the thug can instead decide to make the target frightened for 1 round.
scout's charge, skirmisher, Sneak damage 6d6.
=== gear ===
+3 Adamantine falchion (21 K), Boots of striding and sprinting (5,5 K), Ioun stone (clear spindle) + wayfinder (4,5 K), craked pale grim Ioun stone (attack) (5K), Cloak of reistance +3 (9K), Mithral Breastplate +3 (13K), +1 amulet of natural armor (2K), +1 Ring of protection (2K), +4 belt of Str (16K), Circlet of persuasion (4,5 K), MW tool (intimidate) (0,3 K)
It is simple
Move and power sneak attack. With the thug abilities and the Cornugon smash feat Grumpy Mcthug impose a -4 to attakcs and saves to the enemies
or if you want to own a lot of encounters then replace some combat feat (proabbly taking power attack at level 5 instead of 5) and take dazzling assault (warning: our fellow teamates could complaing if alot of encounters end afther the rogue turn with the enemies runing frightened)
Maybe you could add the ninja trick(preasure points) or other similar ninja trick /rogue talent for more debuff.
IMHO, this is the most urgent change to fighter, sadly the devs do not see it. I thik is possible to change the devs mind but it would need a massive nerd rage like the one for the flurry of blow.
3.5 Loyalist wrote:
Missile shield is like deflect arrow for shielded fighter, and ray shields do the same for rays .There should be an easy way to obtain evasion with a shield though.
A fighter could have whirlwind attack at 4 level and improved trip at 6 level, that is just one level afther the wizard have 3rd level spells, and at the same time sorceress have 3rd level slots. At low to mid level trip is a good choice. You asked for an AoE /crow control, a fighter with with a reach weapon (and/or lunge) can try to trip everyone in a good radius.
past 10th level when the martial are supposed to becomes almost useless whirlwind strike + dazing assault+ cornugon smash+ability focus and the fighter would daze most of enemies with a full round action. Ifthis is not a good AoE then i do not see what it is.
Other option is a thug with dazling assault.
nah, grease or glitterdust to strongly debuff the golem or summonmonster III (lantern archon) to do physical damage.
For start It violated the paizo´s own guidelines about spells resistance. And when you compare it to shocking graps it is not dificult to realize it is way better thatn the existing spells, anohter violation of paizo´s own guidelins about spell creation "comparethe new spells with the old ones".
2+int is really low for a totally mundane class. There is no reason for this and it is basically annoying.
To rise it to 4+int is an easy and very effective houserule that I reccomend for every group. But this thread is not about a houserule. I really would like to see an offcial change for this.
A coupple more of skills points will not rise fighter DPR, it will not rise his AC or saves, it will, however, make the class much MUCH more enjoyable for a lot of people.
yeah, I know, changes for the CRB are really unlikely but hey,the monks recived a larger revision, this will be just a change in a number.
I Have low hopes for this but maybe just maybe...
3.5 Loyalist wrote:
It do not help that a lot of monster have a high CMD and a low will save.
While I love a lot of ultimate combat material I have to say that the section about spells was a waste of space.
A feat should exist to make you better at soemthing not to allow you to try something that you should be capble of triying anyways.
Doomed Hero wrote:
There was an official change. Totem archetye is basically nothing.
well, if you just want to smah the weapon focus, weapons specialization, power attack, furious focus (if you use the shield with both hands),shield slam, improved bull rush,shield focus, missile shield, disruptive, ray shield, improved critical, lunge, improved initiative, and shield master are all good choises.
And if you are a dwarf steel soul is a very good non combat feat.