Nephril's page

one more question guys if the second attack of the flurry of maneuvers i.e. a trip then an attack he believes the second attack should take a -2 penalty which it specifically states it does not.

that's why we do our rules debates between games. you don't know what your talking about and your coming off as a dick. i am asking for rules clarification. it is difficult to locate all the final rulings so after he and i look we turn to the boards for more help. bltzkrg242 your not helping. your not contributing to the discussion you said your piece and now your just causing issues please find another thread where your input will be valued.

EDIT: took out some language i am understanding is undesired in here :-)

Thanks i was pretty sure but wanted to hear it from someone else.

Ok I'll retire the threat final understanding disarming while wearing a gauntlet is fine so long as you do not use the gauntlet as a weapon i.e no applying its special properties while disarming. that is fine thank you all.

I understand you need to qualify for a feat before you can take another feat.. now if you gain multiple feats in the same level could you for example take medium armor proficiency followed by Heavy armor Proficiency in the same level??

thank you grik i am inclined to agree with you. if i forgo the +1 to attack from the masterwork gauntlet i.e. not wielding the gauntlet as a weapon then all should work out fine.

and this is for a society game so im just wondering what is actually legal if i have to drop the gauntlet i will its no big deal i just want to know.

Can you wield a weapon while wearing a spikedgauntlet in the same hand...

YES

Can you disarm someone while wearing a spiked gauntlet...

YES

i dont see a problem here. and to ask about it in a forum is just one way to try and figure it out since there are devs and experienced players here bltz thanks for your input (that i disagree with but thats not the point) but dont cause the forum to fall apart bringing up that forums are not the best way to do something i dont care to here the neigh saying.

the problem is my DM is claiming since Flurry of Maneuvers is not flurry of blows that he wants it individually erratad

an unarmed strike is a weapon??? and disarm states it works with that.

3 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

So when a maneuver master monk uses flurry of maneveurs and he has levels in another class how do we calculate his cmb for bonus feats.

i feel it should be monk level in place of monk bab+bab from all other classes+str+other modifiers.

my dm disagrees saying it should only be my monk level+nothing else.

When disarming with a gauntlet can you end up with the weapon in hand as per the ruling on disarm

Disarm

[Source]

You can attempt to disarm your opponent in place of a melee attack. If you do not have the Improved Disarm feat, or a similar ability, attempting to disarm a foe provokes an attack of opportunity from the target of your maneuver. Attempting to disarm a foe while unarmed imposes a –4 penalty on the attack.

If your attack is successful, your target drops one item it is carrying of your choice (even if the item is wielded with two hands). If your attack exceeds the CMD of the target by 10 or more, the target drops the items it is carrying in both hands (maximum two items if the target has more than two hands). If your attack fails by 10 or more, you drop the weapon that you were using to attempt the disarm. If you successfully disarm your opponent without using a weapon, you may automatically pick up the item dropped.

spiked gaunlets are said to have 0 weight when part of a set of armor. could someone disarm when wearing full plate and end up with the weapon in hand.
______________
my dm is once again calling my sheet into quesiton please post your feelings.

Chubbs McGee wrote:

Does that character even make sense? I think that is one issue with powergaming, the combination are not always taken with any attempt at reasoning them out. May be I am just quibbling?!

A Paladin who specializes in summoning celestial creatures and eventually works their way up to being the disciple of a metallic dragon.

Seems like a pretty neat character concept actually, even outside of the mechanics.

My eidolon looks like a multi legged silver dragon (chinese serpentine type) rushing to the aid of friends using magic to imbue and empower everyone and myself and when the time needs summoning goodly creatures to aid in our battle. and i follow Apsu dragon god.

I felt i needed to say something thank you fleshgrinder for thinking before posting. and chubbs you seem to neigh say an awful lot try contributing instead of just questioning everyones posts.

Ashiel wrote:

Chubbs McGee wrote:

Nephril wrote:

oh and the point buy for this would be

STR: 14 DEX: 12 CON: 14 INT: 10 WIS: 8 CHA: 14

All fine and good, as long as the player was willing to roleplay that WIS 8! :)

The catch is that there is no "correct" or even "wrong" way to roleplay an 8 Wisdom, beyond having the appropriate penalties. You might use it for character quirk ideas, but there is literally no wrong way to play it.

Not quite what I meant. I have played with loads of PGs who conveniently ignore their dump stat when, and wherever, they can.

look at the average npc most of them will have an 8 in a stat. this does not mean you are hindered in any way via roleplaying. you have a -1 to your perception and heal and a few others. will save goes down. i do however go out of my way to act rashly (unwise) and usually display a general lack of attention.

But this is a thread on power gaming not role playing so i didnt feel a need to include a how to guide on playing a character.

oh and the point buy for this would be
STR: 14 DEX: 12 CON: 14 INT: 10 WIS: 8 CHA: 14
with an additional +2 in str from human so 16 str starting

HERE IT IS a powerful build that is easy and fun to play for everyone

our build will do multiple things. Allow armor to be worn, good saves, close to solid bab and access to the top level spells of this list, as well as give you a fun pet to play with.

nothing here is broken just powerful

Level breakdown
1- paladin
2- paladin
this starts us out with some great saves and a few nice abilities to keep us alive (LoH, d10 hd, can use wands of CLW)
3-summoner
4-summoner
5-summoner
6-summoner
this starts us into our casting class working for more power and gives us an eidolon that we use as a mount so we get a +2 shield bonus and +2 to all our saves yeah!!
7-dragon disciple
8-dragon disciple
9-dragon disciple
10- dragon disciple
this gets us our 7th level of summoner spells which means we can now cast 3rd level summoner spells which is full of good buffs and utility. also the +4 strength and +2 natural armor and your pick of a bloodline power is nice. this also qualifies us for eldritch knight at 11th level
11- Eldritch knight and up we go
You end up with the top level spells at 18th level.
a bab of 18, +4 strength,
4d8, 12d10 and 4d12 hit dice DAMN
a 3 hit dice little pet that you can craft into a mount or a scout or a meat shield.

favorite high level Power character is still the eldritch knight. using arcane armor training and rocking some ridiculous ac with near full bab and casting progression with d10 hd for the bulk of your career. this is just a fun powerful character that can be customized however you like.

i would say that the armor that is melded into you in wildshape is still worn, so it still prevents the monks AC bonus to work.

My logic: -you were wearing the armor before wildshape.
-it does not dissappear and reappear (the line 'cannot be seen' suggests this, as does the fact that armor with wild quality DOES benefit you)
-you are still wearing it if you shift back to normal form.

So, you are wearing armor the entire time, you just don't benefit from it because armor designed to protect a human chest does not work on a wolf or bear

what about other gear that gives a magical bonus that is abosrbed into your form that you lose benefit of?? why is it that if you shift into a form while carrying a heavy load you are no longer considered encumbered. i see your logic but dont agree. when you shape you absorb the armor. when you shift out it reappears. wilding does not say that it makes the armor form to your new shape just that it provides an ac bonus equal to the armors bonus to you while in a shape shifted form.

while wild shaped you gain no advantage or disadvantage of armor. it melds into your form. it cannot be targeted by any spell or ability. until you resume normal form it is gone.

now wilding on armor says you cannot see it. it does not state anywhere that this armor does not meld with your new form. just that you receive the bonuses from the armor. still at this point you still do not suffer from armor check penalties or arcane spell failure of any kind. this is why it is a +3 bonus. by a strict reading and understanding of this armor ability it would allow you to utilize the monks ac ability.

my next point the monk ac ability clearly states that you ADD YOUR WISDOM to your armor class. not that you get an armor class= to your wisdom.. by my understanding this means that you get the armor bonus from the wilded armor while shaped (since it is not being worn you simply gain a bonus from it) and add your wisdom to that number.

it could however be read that the monk wisdom ac bonus is your armor and would not stack with wilding armor in the way i mentioned above. this is a tricky issue but with the +3 cost of the armor i still dont think this is over powered.

glorified masterwork fullplate. for 350 more lol

but it already has teh MASTERWORK built in. what happens when you slap masterwork on fullplate??

let me see.....
9 ac, +1 dex, -6 acp. normal
reduce acp by +1 masterwork difference
9 ac, +1 max dex, -5 acp. masterwork fullplate
9 ac, +1 max dex, -5 acp hellknight plate

quote from hellknight plate
These distinctive suits of armor are a special type of masterwork full plate that, when worn by a character with levels in the Hellknight prestige class, grants additional effects.

i thinks we are at a disagreement mr the darkveinedtroll. :-0 np though i love a lot of your posts.

unless you can make masterwork hellknight fullplate ;-)

Its raining really angry cats and dogs.

though the books explain your reach in 5 feet and game play based on a 2 dimensional grid it is actually a functional 3 three dimensional game. easy enough to figure out.
you are a 5 foot cube 5x5x5. you threaten the 26 five foot cubes that surround you. usually barriers such as the ground stop you from taking any AoO against opponents that may reside in the bottom 9 cubes. when flying you threaten all squares around you. in turn enemies threaten the squares around them. this is why it is important to explain that the flying creature resides inside of the cubes located 10 feet above. (this happens to me my nape of the earth travel distance while flying and attempting to avoid other flying monsters) this would mean that if the monster were to lower 5 feet they would be in a square the player threatens and if they tried to leave again they would provoke an AoO.

someday through hologram technology we will have our 3 dimensional playing grid and all will be good until then it is best if you can come up with a way to represent how far your npcs are from the ground to explain to players why they cannot reach them.

http://paizo.com/forums/dmtz3tdf?Armored-Kilt#17

Final word given until gencon.

thank you for your response.

but as of now is it allowed or not. i have an armored kilt on my battle oracle and now my dm is questioning its legality.

With the update in the adventurer armory stating that it is bringing the armored kilt and a few others from the campaign setting along with it. That is a pretty easy way to say items have been brought from 3.5 to pathfinder with no necessary changes. The item is listed in the AA, the additional resources page says EVERYTHING in the AA is legal with "2" exceptions, and armored kilt was not one of those exceptions.
On the aforementioned thread I see where developers and well known gamers are all commenting on its proper use. It is referred to as legal for play no where am I seeing it as illegal except for people on this thread one of which is MARK MORELAND whose comment was made before the release of the AA see his comment posted on 4/29/11 came before the AA released on 7/21/11.

And since there has been NO further word on the armored kilts legality since the nearly COMPLETE inclusion of the adventurer armory we can all enjoy it as a perfectly legal society item. If anyone has a more recent ruling I would LOVE to see it.

call it difficult terrain. no check required.

a passive perception check of 10+perception could be assumed as a continual thing to see if the party notices stuff to speed up the game.

as for perception dcs read some modules or scenarios there are tons of references in there.

making full plate identical in every way to hellknight plate save the hellknight prc. but costs 500 more instead of 150 more. what a smokin deal.

thanks all i appreciate the feedback i was sure that i was reading this right and the 3.5 flashback kinda solidifies this for me.

I have been a supporter of monks for quite some time. Anyone looking back through some of my earlier posts could postulate that my reason for joining the forums was to open some people’s eyes about this classically overlooked character.

From a dps standpoint full Bab classes with 2 handed weapons rule the world. From a world altering prospective wizards can shape and change the world that the dps junkies claim to rule.
I’ll go so far as to throw the rest of the powerhouse class together, wizard welcome your little sister the sorcerer to your table oh look your cousins the divine casters are here welcome oracles and clerics have a seat the druid should be here soon he was busy playing with the dps junkies so he’ll be a little late.

Monks and rogues fall into a special section of dnd where if your party can support you playing a fun character you can on occasion shine brighter than any other. But you will find yourself situational.

Big draw backs are ranged damage and versatility. The monk has his tools. He has good skills amazing saves and a sub-optimal Bab progression.

To the dps ahololics participating in the dps Olympics, monks are a full dps class when it matters if played right. If I only get one attack make it a combat maneuver. If I get a full attack let it is a flurry. Again this is situational and not every attack spikes the damage charts. Hell none of them might but he’s still contributing.

Now to the OP you have fallen into one of the worst things you can do. Claim that everyone else is wrong and you are right. For many reasons monks are not worth playing. In a high ac game vs. lots of big monsters you will find yourself plinking away ineffectively at monsters you love to miss. You also require multiple stats that some of the others don’t. Some games are for power gamers. If you don’t play in those then don’t ridicule the people who do. I understand most of them will be bullheaded and call you wrong but falling into a debate online is akin to finding a stud in your wall and beating your forehead off of it.
I love monks my current pfs toon is a lore warden/maneuver master who through feats will be wearing full mithril plate. Yeah I give up a ton of monk stuff but I keep some of the amazing abilities of maneuver master. And I get to keep punching people and that makes me happy.

Enjoy your character let others enjoy there’s. Just don’t ever play a character that the rest of your party has to carry through adventures just because you are having fun playing it.

Temporary items do not qualify you for feats and prestige classes. this came up all the time in 3.5 people trying to use rings of evasion to qualify for prestige classes. if you don't qualify for a feat naked and unbuffed you should not have the feat.

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

So even though I printed off the srd ruling and bolded the section that states you can automatically pick up the item you disarm from your opponent my dm in his awesomeness is arguing that automatically requires an action. I laughed in his face as this is an ABSURD argument. I am creating this threat so that I can show him some feedback on normal peoples reading of the rule. So I will post it

Disarm
FAQ/Errata
Disarm Weapons
You don't have to use a weapon with the disarm special feature (a.k.a. a "disarm weapon") when making a disarm combat maneuver--you can use any weapon.
You can attempt to disarm your opponent in place of a melee attack. If you do not have the Improved Disarm feat, or a similar ability, attempting to disarm a foe provokes an attack of opportunity from the target of your maneuver. Attempting to disarm a foe while unarmed imposes a –4 penalty on the attack.
If your attack is successful, your target drops one item it is carrying of your choice (even if the item is wielded with two hands). If your attack exceeds the CMD of the target by 10 or more, the target drops the items it is carrying in both hands (maximum two items if the target has more than two hands). If your attack fails by 10 or more, you drop the weapon that you were using to attempt the disarm. If you successfully disarm your opponent without using a weapon, you may automatically pick up the item dropped.

This is directly off the srd here is a web page reference
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/combat#TOC-Disarm

My way of reading it is that when you disarm someone while using an unarmed strike you are allowed to end up holding your opponents weapon after your successful disarm attempt.

This came up because my monk during a flurry successfully disarmed on the first attack and I wished to hold the weapon and use my last strike against the opponent. The dm was trying to rule that I had to use a move action to pick up the weapon or the baddy would just pick it up on his turn (a conclusion I had already come to)

Now what I do not care to hear are these comments
"do you have the improved disarm feat"
"if you attack with the weapon its a -4 penalty cause your not proficient"
"you cant flurry with a rapier"

i do appreciate your time reading this and look forward to your interpretation of this pretty obvious (IMHO) rule

You must all be young. The old doctors even back when there was rose he used guns and clubs. In some parts of this universe "doctor" is a term used to refer to the most capable and powerful fighter in the land. Check a wiki and get yourself some additional information. I did love the idea of a wand of knock and hold portal but maybe also throw a sense "everything" into it. And id definitely thinks of this character as a high level travel/time cleric than a god. Luckily disable device is charisma based as he should be able to take anything from a toaster to a television and find a way to wire it into a cb radio and have just the tool he needs. Remember each actor has brought his own dash to the doctor character. While the latest is very entertaining (and don’t get me wrong I love him) looking back to the previous should get you a character a little more fun to look at as a god. I think it was the family blood multipart episode that really showed his vengeful side.

Nothing says bad kitty like trapping someone inside a star for eternity.

once again people look at a game and try to make it line up with real life.
"but my hand is not big enough to use the gauntlet"
so you take a -4 penalty to spread your fingers out who cares its a weapon a size category larger than normally allowed for you so take teh appropriate penalty and away you go. these kind of threads continue to amaze me. By raw you can do it. if you need to fluff if for yourself put on 6 pairs of socks with your huge bladed boot, stretch your scizore out and latch it to your arm, put on a pair of padded gloves to make your spiked gauntlet fit.
If this continues to cause you problems then just homebrew that it makes no sense so will not be allowed.

Thanks guys I was sure it was purchasable but its one of those things that the language is confusing.

I looked over the threads and didn’t find an answer more definitive than "that's how I play it" so here I am to ask the question.

Can a druid by dragonhide armor once his fame score is high enough to allow purchase of an item with that cost.
Example could a player with 9 fame (max purchase 900) purchase a dragonhide breastplate (value 700 gp)

I see that it is not on the always available list. However it is not on the restricted materials list (that I can find). Or is this something you have to perform a specific module to find the item and get it onto a chronicle sheet.

Anyone with a real answer would be appreciated. Either experience at a convention where you played it allowed, a link to a developer’s statement in another thread, or even more appreciated if a developer could just post here and let me know thanks.

Yes you can fire an arrow and your mount can continue to move before you fire the next. Your limit on your actions is that they all take place in the same round. Since your mount shares your initiative it also moves during your round. just like a 5 foot shift is allowed during a full attack (because that is all the movement allowed for you) then if another effect is moving you during your turn you can take the attacks during your round wherever you may be so long as you don’t exceed your actions for the round. Being as your mount is using his actions and you are using yours I see no problem and have never heard a single rule limiting your firing during riding (save the -4,-8 penalties for excessive movement)

i see what you mean now i have seen an ablative post saying the same thing but claiming since the damage was further prevented from being dealt as nonlethal from the dr provided by undead bloodline that the Ablative was never consumed. that is what does not work. if what your saying is you are just using it as a low level way to score a sweet dr 5/- for the third level spell then yes you are correct. I thought that your post was a continuation of the "it gives me dr 5/- for 1 hr/lvl since the bloodline prevents the converted damage." that was the cheese. what you are using is definitely useful i just didn't think anything special of it for a bloodline and 3rd level spell combo. sorry for my conclusion jumping.

This spell sounds incredible I see half elf being nearly mandatory now and this spell being a must have I had no problem with it.

HOWEVER you pointed out a combo with undead bloodline and ablative barrier at the top of all of this. One problem with that. It doesn’t work.
Just because you don’t take any damage from the attack doesn’t mean the spell didn’t convert the damage to nonlethal. It actually explicitly requires the spell to convert to nonlethal so that it can then be ignored by the nonlethal dr of the bloodline.
Sorry when I see stinky cheese that is actually just moldy cheddar I have to throw it out.

It is also a common rule to refer back to 3.5 if anything is not clearly explained in pathfinder (at least until paizo errata or faqs it) and in 3.5 you couldn't reduce below 1.

This has Been addressed so many times. a spell that becomes a 0 level spell does not become a cantrip.

Might i make a small suggestion. if you decide to play with a deck of cards that has the ability to cripple or maim your party you may want to work out a way to have them recover before introducing the deck.
A dm should always be prepared.

the magus is finished turned out very well this page helped me decide to avoid kensai all together. pure magus just has to much fun stuff. he has a solid ac 20ish, a good attack +8/+8 with spell strike, 31 hp and all kinds of other good stuff. playing by society rules and there format this character is a win in my opinion.
thanks to all for the insight and opinions.

If this is for a Kensai, then you're also having to worry about max dex. Without taking levels of Fighter, a chain shirt will never have higher than a +4 max dex, while Kensais can get a dex bonus of 10 by level 5.

mithril chain shirt is a +6. and with the kensai you could have a +5 int and a +5 dex but thats very unlikely in society play

thank you for the complete list. of magus swifts. personally i would miss the dispellign stirke and arcane accuracy. we have since moved him back to a normal magus so the magus is not an issue anymore.

i am still thinking that there are many classes that could benefit from this. as a +9 chest ac is possible here where every other option for arcane casters leaves you at +8 for a lot more money. and that +9 could also have several nice magical bonuses on it.

is this for everyone probably not. if you are playing homebrew where you can get more money and magic are going to play until higher level this might not even concern you. but if you are scraping your way through a society campaign where death can mean permanent death and starting over scrounging up the 2100 gold for a +5 armor and investing 2 feats to have a 0% instead of a 10% spell failure is very appealing to this player.

The magus only has 3 swift action abilities, weapon enhancing and both spell recalls. I do see where this could be the spell recall can be useful and take up the same swift action as an arcane armor training. But a little forethought and some planning make that a non issue.
For instance
"I need to regain that shocking grasp I just cast"
2 options
"Regain and cast at 10% asf"
"Regain and attack then cast next round"

I will admit that the quicken metamagic feat does become less appealing. I am playing in society though so I tend not to worry about the +3 and +4 metamagics.

Also a mithral chain shirt even at +2 is still only 5.1k and imparts a +6 armor bonus. Bracers of armor +6 are 36,000. Having the armor also opens up the possibility of any of the useful armor enhancements.

I’ll admit it’s probably a play style choice and definitely depends on your campaign setup. But to me 2 feats for an easy +6 armor bonus at level 4 in society is a no brainer. We don’t power game so I’m sure our acs could be higher but right now our acs range from 15 to 22. This magus (once he catches up) will be setting at the same ac as us or higher and then still have a shield spell.

luckily he gets 2 feats at 5th level he can take them both. ok so this combo may not be as impressive as i once thought but i still like it.

Thank you so much for the catch. i was referencing feats from an app on my phone and that prof is missing i checked the srd and BOOM there it is. a minor modification but i will definetly be getting that in there for him.

I came across this while working on my buddies magus. he is looking to play a Kensai and low armor was a concern but this setup is just so easy. and with a dervish built Kensai wearing this armor he walks around at 21 ac with no ring or amulet to boost. With his shield spell up hes at 25. and he has a +10 to hit at level 4. this is not godly i know nor min/maxing, but the power of this little set of armor deserved to be mentioned.
ac explanation of 21
+1 mithral chain shirt=5
+5 dex + uncanny defense to cap out dex bonus=6
and of course base 10.

with a 2k ring and a 2k amulet hell quickly be up to a combat ac of 27. in a few levels he can put another +1 on his armor and combat ac of 28 is great for a front line guy.