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Who does it better? I'm getting a backup character ready in case my current one bites the dust, and I've decided on going the debuffer route, but can't really decide between these two.

Are there rules about what happens with a permanent, continuous effect (such as a Leonal's Protective Aura) when the creature involved is asleep, or knocked unconscious?

Do creatures that possess (or are granted) these continuous Su effects have control over them or are they always active no matter what? (ie: Could the Leonal from the above example choose to suppress it's Protective Aura, like you can do with SR, or is it stuck with it always active?)

Tried searching but I can't seem to find any general rules surrounding Continuous effects.

So I'm about to start playing a Leonal as a character and I have no idea what to name him.

Is there any info out there on Agathian (or any Outsider) naming conventions?
Does anyone have any suggestions otherwise?


3 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

What's the ruling on this? Is there even a ruling? I know most people won't allow it because it's obviously strong, but I'm not looking for opinions - I'm looking for rules.

The obvious ways are, "be mounted" which comes with potential logistical problems (thos mount issues, tho...), or "get Pounce" which has the drawback of requiring a charge.

What are other ways to build a melee type that doesn't get totally shut down by movement?

•Takes a Standard action, and can be undone with a move-action.
•Requires feat investment to avoid AoO.
•Penalties choices are all pretty minor and wear off quickly.

Yet I see people suggest it all the time. Am I alone in thinking this?

Near-epic 3.5 game is converting to PF and I really have no idea how to even approach this, lol.
Any tips or suggestions are highly appreciated!

IotSFV = Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil, for those who don't know.

Just looking for unique and interesting ideas on how others would build their Eidolon for a Synthesist Summoner.

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

Many abilities come with the phrase, "may not be used when holding/carrying a weapon or shield in the off hand," or something similar that implies carrying and does not mention wielding.

One example is the Dervish Dance feat:

When wielding a scimitar with one hand, you can use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on melee attack and damage rolls. You treat the scimitar as a one-handed piercing weapon for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon (such as a duelist’s precise strike ability). The scimitar must be for a creature of your size. You cannot use this feat if you are carrying a weapon or shield in your off hand.

Bolded for emphasis.

So the question is, if you are carrying a weapon that doesn't require a hand to use (such as a boot blade or armor spikes), then are you always considered to be "carrying a weapon in your off hand" even when not wielding that weapon?
If not, then how does it work, considering the RAW on "off hands" doesn't actually have anything to do with using the body part "hand?"

Any FAQ hits are appreciated. :)

This question applies to Oracles and Mysteries as well.

For example, the Trickery domain is wonderful and fun and the god(s) of thieves, assassins, etc. do all have their clergy, but the generic divine spell list is AWFUL for a stealthy, murderous assassin/thief type character.

Or Fire/Sun Cleric having only a tiny handful of fire based options.
Or a Water Cleric having even less than a tiny handful of water/ice based spells.

The Domain/Mystery bonus spells can only go so far. How do you reconcile the "few-trick pony" divine list with the various supported archetypes that don't fall in line?


Kneejerk assumption was Ninja/Oracle of Waves, but I can't get over just how awful the divine list is for an offensive character.

The bonus skills, spells, revelations, are all great, but the Cleric/Oracle spell list has so very few offensive and/or Ice/Water spells to complement the character.

Would a Sorcerer be a better fit maybe? I'm not sure.

Any advice is appreciated!

How do you feel about this exploit?
On the one hand, it's one of the few reliable ways to recharge Arcane Reservoir without resting.
On the other hand, this seems like a really *expensive* ability to use. Destroying single-use consumables for a single point. Eating up 5 whole charges from a wand? (That's 5 spells for one point! [rarely 2 points]).

Just can't decide if it's really worth it. Thoughts?

And if you do, how long do you manage before it gets tiring and campy?

Indulge me a moment?
Let's take a look at the Greenrager archetype for the Bloodrager class.
The whole point of this archetype is to turn the Bloodrager into a mini-summoner. You gain Summon Nature's Ally 1-4, and the things you summon gain bonuses depending on your level.

My question - who cares?

Unless you need a summon for a utility feature (flying, burrowing, etc.) then the summons available to you are trash by the time you can actually summon them.
A Greenrager is level 13 before he can cast SNA4. From what I can see, Tiger is the best option on the list.
A CR4 animal.
Even with the bonuses you give it, how does it not get one or two-shot by the enemies you are going to be facing at level 13+? Answer: It always does. If you are lucky, it gets it a single attack routine. If you are even more lucky, it manages to land a few attacks. And then it's dead.

The entire point of an archetype defeated simply because it's focus came too late in the leveling career. Really?

This extends far beyond Greenrager too.
Look at the Fire Shield spell. It's a pretty weak option for a spell even when you can cast it as at Wizard-levels (level 7, in case you were wondering). So in what world is it a good option to take when you have to wait until character level 13 to cast it as a Bloodrager, when it wasn't even a very solid option 5 levels prior?

And the argument extends to all classes saddled with stunted spell lists:

Case in point: There is a reason Paladins aren't stuck with a stunted Cleric list.
There is a reason why Rangers aren't stuck with a stunted Druid list.
There is a reason why Bards aren't stuck with a stunted Sorcerer list.
There is a reason why Magi aren't stuck with a stunted Wizard list.
There is a reason why Summoner isn't stuck with a stunted Sorcerer list.
There is a reason why Inquisitor isn't stuck with a stunted Cleric list.
Why don't the new classes get the same consideration?

Say your party successfully defeats an extremely powerful lich. Huzzah!
Say then that your caster uses the Soul Bind spell on the defeated lich.
What happens? Does the lich's soul return to it's phylactery or does it get stored in the soul bind gem?

I'm curious how GMs and Players alike deal with the necromancer's favorite material component, considering fun facts like:

•Onyx isn't a very valuable rock, so 25g/50g chunks are going to be particularly huge (probably not fitting into any eye sockets!).
•Components list doesn't clarify if lots of onyx adding up to the required amount works, or if you need a single piece of the stuff per undead animated/created. This also ties into the above point - if trying to create a 18HD undead (a common number, as that's a T-Rex which make for great undead), that's 900gp worth of Onyx, and that's a LOT of onyx, *especially* if it has to be a single piece!

Bringing a Juju (pre-errata) Oracle into my current game and I'm just looking for good ideas on spells to take. Spells are largely pulled from 3.5 but I can argue for PF versions as well.
Any advice is appreciated as always.

What are the ways I can go about doing this?
Case in point: I'm thinking of rolling up a Necromancer as a Cleric and doing the full "undead hordes" thing, but I still want to have access to the more fun necro spells, like Magic Jar.

Why are Treants vulnerable to fire? Wouldn't electric make more sense?
I mean, there's a reason we use fire for burning - it takes a long time to burn! Hence, it's more resistant than, say, the flesh and fat of a human, which burns and boils sooo easily. :)


Looking for tips on build here. Thinking of a Barbarian/Sorcerer base with either Demon-Blooded Tiefling or Half-Elf for race. Just to give a general idea, I'm looking to be as "half-dragon" as I can - meaning not a caster with stat buffs and not a fighter with a couple spells, but sort of a blending of the two. (GM is cool with the Claw power lasting indefinitely, so was thinking of going the Nat Weapon route.)

Also I'm having a little trouble understanding the relationship between Blood of Dragons and Crossblooded Sorcerer. Can someone help me out with that?


This is a 9th level spell.
It has to be better than just, "+2 to AC and Ref, and cannot be caught by surprise or flat-footed."
That clause about, "In addition, the spell gives you a general idea of what action you might take to best protect yourself" just has to have some sort of benefit beyond the listed amount.
Otherwise, how is this even a 4th level spell?

So, my question is, how do you handle it? How do you make Foresight worth casting in your game?

Can someone help me understand why Mage Armor is a Conj spell, but Shield is an Abj spell, even though they are practically identical in effect? (ie: both are protective barriers that are created [not summoned] around the caster.)

So my group is starting a 3.5 game that is Pathfinder compatible (as opposed to a PF game that is 3.5 compatible), and my collection of 3.5 books was sold off long long ago!
Ergo, I have no recollection of what feats were available and/or good for said style of Wizard! So I'm looking for tips/suggestions on feats for an Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil that is 10th level. Abjuration specialist, Enchantment and Necromancy are prohibited.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I mean, yeah, it works on incorporeal creatures, but c'mon...
Even at it's most powerful, we're talking about 5d4+5 damage at level 9.

How has this spell survived sooo long when it's so terrible?

Playing a Sandman Bard and can't decide on my 2nd trait.
The first one is going to be Trapfinder (for when the rogue doesn't show up to our dungeon-crawl game) but I can't decide on a 2nd.

Any suggestions? (Preferably something interesting - not just a stat bump).

Why is "00" + "0" considered a 100? Why isn't it a 10? or a 110?
So it goes:

Wait... How did that happen?
Why does the value of 00 change based on the roll?

If 00 always equals zero, and 0 always equals 10, then you get a possible 1-100 result without ever worrying about changing the die values.
But if 00+0 equals 100, then that means the value of 00 changes based on what the d10 shows.

That seems dumb to me.
Anyone else?

Consider the spell Dominate Person:
Bards cast it as a 4th level spell, while Wizards, Sorcerers, and Witches cast it as a 5th level spell.

How is this a good thing for the Bard? On the one hand, yes, he can cast it a whole spell-level earlier than the other classes. But what that actually translates to is that while a Wizard/Witch can cast the spell at character level 9, the Bard/Sorcerer has to wait until level 10.
And the difference between the Bard and Sorcerer casting is that the Bard's is at a -1 DC value because of the lower spell level.

tl;dr - Spell casting is kinda broken for anyone who isn't a full caster. Early Access isn't a good thing. It just turns a ridiculously bad thing into a not-quite-as-bad thing.

Here's the deal:
I wanna be a "sneak thief" type character, and I wanna do it with a Bard.

1- I'm torn between core Bard and Sandman. I really like Slumbersong, Greater Stealspell, Spell Catching, Master of Deception, and Trap Sense. On the other hand, I really hate giving up Versatile Performance, and to a lesser degree, Inspire Courage.
(I will not play an Archeologist, even though it's the obvious "fit," because another character in the group is playing one.)

2- I also really wanna play a Halfling, but I really don't want to be an archer. There are just too many "necessary" feats. Obviously I want to be able to contribute in combat, but with the small size and Str penalty, am I just asking for trouble, or is it do-able?

Any feedback is incredibly welcome. :)

Why do all the good and/or fun archetypes have to replace Versatile Performance?
I mean, you have to use a Performance to make your Bardic Performance abilities work, and isn't Versatile Performance meant to offset being required to take "flavor" skills?

/trying to talk myself into Sandman
/having a hard time about it

Two things concern me about casters (power-level aside):

1- Save DCs are super-awful for low-level spells.
2- Metamagic is only good when it's abusable and a headache otherwise.

So I'm considering the following:
1- Spell save DCs follow the CL instead of the SL. So the formula would be, "10 + 1/2CL + Ability Mod." This way by the time you hit mid-levels, you don't feel like your lower-level offensive options are useless because they're no longer auto-savable.

2- Treat all metamagic feats the way the Spell-like Ability version works. ie: Instead of increasing spell level or casting time or both, they're usable X times per day (X being a value that shifts depending on the power of the feat - Enlarge would be more times per day than Quicken, for example).


Is Spellsteal actually a good ability, or does it 9 times out of 10 end up stealing some random spell that you have little or no use for because knowing what the enemy has prepared is tough to do (and being close enough to touch them is either hard, dangerous, or both?)

(I can totally see how Greater Spellsteal would be awesome. But it's also a 15th level ability and there's a pretty good chance the game doesn't go that long.)

So my group is having some trouble with our "trap handlers" showing up to game recently, so I offered to make a Bard to help with things.

I haven't actually played a Bard since 3.5, so I'm a little ignorant of, and curious about, my options.
The only thing I don't want to do is Archeologist (one of the aforementioned characters is already an Archeologist Bard and I don't want to step on his toes, so to speak.)

Thanks. :)

What's the difference?
I mean descriptively. I know the mechanical differences, but how do you describe, oh say, a vampire's Slam vs a vampire's Unarmed Strike?

A vampire punches you in the face. It's super-effective! Take d4+str lethal damage and suffer two negative levels!
A vampire punches you in the face. It's not very effective! Take d3+str nonlethal damage and enjoy your free attack of opportunity.

So I'm playing a Reach Cleric, and it feels like my spell list, with the rare exception (like a well-placed Windwall) feels like a waste.

I'm 6th level wearing +1 Armor, +1 Cloak of Res, and a +2 Longspear (lucky loot roll).

I'm too low of a level for the typical buff spells to be truly useful. I have Sacred Summons but no use for it until 5th level spells (CG alignment).
Am I just stuck feeling like a wasted caster until higher spell levels, or am I missing obvious greatness?

1 person marked this as a favorite.

It's incredibly frustrating to, say, take a Spell Focus as a prereq when playing a Druid or a Cleric. So much mindless digging to find out exactly which spells benefit! :(

Where can I find all those lovely character sheet options that PathfinderDB doesn't host anymore? The internet is totally failing me at the moment.

On a related note - wtf happened to PathfinderDB? None of the links work. Everything is gone!

6 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

As the title suggests, there is some hostility floating around surrounding the mechanics behind "attacking defensively as a standard action."

Can we get a clear answer on how this works?

Pathfinder PRD wrote:
Fighting Defensively as a Standard Action: You can choose to fight defensively when attacking. If you do so, you take a –4 penalty on all attacks in a round to gain a +2 dodge bonus to AC until the start of your next turn.

Link: tandard-action

Does the above require you to make an attack action (as in, using your simple action attack against a foe such as with the Defender weapon property) or can you just declare you are "attacking defensively" and gain the bonus to AC/penalty to attacks without doing anything other than declaring?

Please FAQ

Not Invulnerable Rager DR, but just run-of-the-mill, core, 5-points-over-20-levels Barbarian DR.

Have Barb players noticed it making much difference? Is it important, or does it go almost unnoticed?

The armor tables seem to suggest that even light armor would limit a wearer's speed, as the "limit" for a character with 30ft speed is 30ft, not "-".

Example of my train of thought: Human Magus is wearing a chain shirt and casts Expeditious Retreat. The spell doesn't have any text that allows a bypass of armor speed restrictions, so wouldn't the wearer still be limited to 30ft?

I know I've always played that "light armor doesn't limit your movement speed at all" but now that I'm thinking about it, I can't actually find any justification for that in the RAW.
Is there any? If so, where is it?

So there are a ton of complaints (some from me even) that the errata we tend to see is incredibly uneven.
"Martials get all the nerfs while casters stay strong."

The Devs, on the other hand, stick like glue to the line that, "We consider everything equally and make changes where needed; we don't target melee more than casters." (paraphrased)

Well, can we prove that here?

Here's what I'm looking for: As many "caster and/or spell nerfs" as you can think of since Pathfinder started. If the nerfs really do come even-handed, then there should be evidence to back that up, yes?
Here's what I'm not looking for: Snark. I'm honestly, legitimately, interested to see the disparity between caster nerfs and non-caster nerfs. If you wanna just be snarky, please make a different thread, or post in one of the various ones that already exist?

(And yes, before anyone brings it up, the Crane Wing discussions are what make me want to do this. I have a hard time believing that Crane Wing caused more problems for GMs than something like Color Spray, which has gone untouched, afaik, since PF 1.0.)

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

Snake style lets you use an Immediate Action to replace your AC with a Sense Motive check's results.

Snake Fang lets you make an AoO against a missed attack and then, if you hit with that AoO, use an Immediate Action to make an additional attack.


Except you only get one Immediate Action, so you can't use the benefit of both feats at the same time.

That seems dumb. Was this intentional?

Seems like having a list of options for FE that is 32 choices long seems like a dumb relic that never got polished up from previous editions.

Here's what I'm thinking:
•Beasts (Animals, Magical Beasts, Vermin)
•Outsiders* (Aligned Outsiders)
•Elementals (Elemental Outsiders)
•Humanoids (Civilized)
•Otherworldly (Aberrations, Fey)
•Savages (Uncivilized Humanoids, Monstrous Humanoids, Giants)
•Unliving (Undead, Constructs)

(*Native Outsiders treated as Humanoid and/or Outsider, on an individual basis.)

And honestly, I'd like to either wrap Oozes and Plants together (but can't think of a good "theme" that covers both) or wrap each one into another group. Simply put, no one will ever pick those by themselves, because there just aren't enough monsters of those types to be worth it, ever (oozes especially!).

Thoughts/criticisms welcome. :)

Let me introduce you to the available feats in Pathfinder:

There is literally hundreds of them, and that's not including anything 3rd Party (to my knowledge - I'm not double-checking that list!)

So I'm wondering, would it really break the bank to offer characters a feat every level instead of every other level?

I tried searching but couldn't come up with anything.

I'm curious to know if you can attack with a reach weapon through an allied square.
For example, imagine XYZ are standing in a row. X has a reach weapon, Y is his ally, and X wants to attack Z.

Is this possible?
If it is, does cover apply? (Everything I can find on Cover is related to Ranged Attacks.)
If cover applies, what kind of cover is it?


So my group's about to do a good ol' fashion dungeon crawl, and I've been itching to play a Reach Cleric.

My only problem is that I haven't played a divine caster since 3.0 was the new kid on the block!

What's a good "standard lineup" of spells for such a character these days? Maybe one lineup for low level and another one for mid level? (I don't expect the game to get into high levels, and I should have a clue by then anyway, lol).

Any help is greatly appreciated. :D

So these "fizzle" at spell level 8 and 9, due to the fact that Summon Nature's Ally VIII / IX don't have any animal options.

What do?

Just wanted to throw these out there and see what other people think:

•Needs more unique names (like it or not SKR ;) ).
Brawler is taken.
Swashbuckler is taken.
Shaman isn't taken, but it's so close to other archetype names that it's questionable.

•Spell lists need to be somewhat more unique to the class.
Yes, that is a lot of work, but that's what goes along with making a 20-level class.

Pretty much makes both Sorcerers and Wizards obsolete.
Even with the penalty of lesser spells to cast, the benefits of combining prepared and spontaneous spell-casting, cost free, are huge. We're talking, "All the strengths of the Wizard with none of the weaknesses."
Seems like the only reason to play a Sor or Wiz with Arcanist as an option is for flavor alone.

Don't get me wrong, I like the concept, but how is this it's own entire class? Currently it's a Barbarian archetype that trades Rage Powers and Trap Sense for a spell-casting ability and bloodline powers.
I think this class really needs something to give it it's own identity. Otherwise, again, how is it anything more than an archetype?
"Worst-case scenario" question: How is this not just a huge upgrade over Barbarian? Bloodline Abilities are similar to Rage Powers, but spell-casting is SO MUCH BETTER than Trap Sense. Every other ability is shared with the Barbarian class.

I think it's very well done, if not that exciting. My only real concern is that it makes the core Monk class obsolete; If you want to be martial, go Brawler - If you want to be mystical, you'll need a Monk archetype to actually pull that off anyway, so there's no longer a niche for the Core Monk class other than as a stepping stone for archetypes.
That said, it's not like Monk was ever going to get enough errata to truly fix the class, so with that consideration I think the Brawler will fit in just fine.
Only concern is the Knockout ability - While I realize it's a strong ability, I worry that a cumulative -5 penalty is so severe that it will never land past the first use in a day.

Really trying to get those teamwork feats used, huh? ;)
I don't dislike the class, but nothing about it "wows" me. For example, this is one of those classes that really needs a unique spell list; some blending of the Druid and Ranger lists would be great, I think.
Animal Focus seems rather weak as well. It could use some love, maybe increasing the number of times per day it can be activated, or adding something to each animal type to make it more desirable.
I do also worry about it's offensive potential. It doesn't really get anything in the way of Martial abilities, so is it supposed to rely on the Pet and Spells for almost all of it's Offense? If so, another hint that it needs a unique spell list.

I'll start off by saying this style of class really isn't my cup of tea.
However, I feel even more bad for the poor Rogue class now - Another class that just utterly outdoes it. I think the best thing for people to do here is just accept that Ninja is the new martial Rogue, and Investigator is the new non-Martial Rogue, and just never bother with that poor abused Core class again. (Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing, I'll leave up to the individual opinion.)

I really like this class, and it's the first class that I'm fine with it borrowing from another caster's spell list. However, I think Cleric was the wrong choice - It really needs to be drawing from the Witch list, regardless that it's a divine caster and not arcane; that's just semantics at this point. I also don't think Shaman should be spell-restricted by alignment; this is a primal caster, and primal forces do not pick sides the way other divine powers might.

I've always liked Viking-style warrior poets, but simply put, I see no reason to play this over a Bard.
It's offensive capability is actually worse. Your friends won't always enjoy the benefit you bring to the party until level 20, but most people don't play at that level. The spell-casting is identical, so no boon there. Bardic Music offers a host of potential abilities while Raging Song only offers one.
At the very minimum, I think Dirge of Doom and Raging Song should stack.
Admittedly, Spell Kenning is great, and being able to hand out Rage Powers is neat, but I really think the class still needs some work if it's ever going to compare.

I'll echo some others that this should probably be "Any non-good" required, but I won't get too much into that.
And did I say earlier that Ninja was the new Martial Rogue? Well, no, apparently it's Slayer! Yet another stab to the Rogue class, but much like the Monk, errata won't be fixing the Rogue anyway. That said, I don't really see anything about it I don't like - A playable Assassin, finally! I'm surprised that Skill points aren't 6+Int though.
There is some formatting issues with the Sneak Attack description, but that's easily cleaned up.

Can I just start by saying I've grown incredibly tired of years and years of being told I cannot buckle any swash with one-handed slashing weapons? Why do you hate Longswords?? For reals!
Ahem, anyway...
So I really like the class, but there's some things I want to pick at:
Opportune Parry - Should really be activated after an opponent's attack roll, not before. It's not exactly cheap to activate, and if you activate it and they miss, then what exactly were you attempting to parry in the first place? The whoosh of air from their not-hitting you?
Swift Feint - This should really replace an attack instead of requiring a Standard Action to activate. Make your attack - decide if you want to spend the Panache and miss or not - make the rest of your attacks, or do whatever else you would in that turn.
Deeds in general also seem unclear. Do you have to select them at the appropriate levels? If so, why are they worded as if you just get them as an option once you hit a certain level? And why are they so randomly scattered through the leveling process?
The Bonus Feat ability is also unclear. Is it, "Starting at 4th and every even level after," or is it "every 4 levels after?" The Ability reads like a bad copy/paste from Fighter while table 1-12 reads as it's one feat every 4 levels.

Arguably a much-needed class, since Paladin is so limited in it's scope because of it's LG requirement and it's Code (it's also arguable that Cleric's were already good enough at combat based on spell selection, and I tend to agree - Errata base Clerics to be less martially proficient already!)
Also, I know I'm getting to be a broken record here, but seriously! Unique spell lists! Late-casting spells that are power-balanced for earlier levels is super-annoying!
Otherwise... Seems fine. Much like Hunter, it's not incredibly exciting. You take a Cleric, give him free Armor and Weapon bonuses, strip his highest level spells and the majority of his Domain powers, and toss in some bonus feats for good measure. It works, but it's kinda "meh."
If Clerics alone couldn't already make for very good combatants, then I think this class would be more exciting. As is? I just don't see the point.

Yeah yeah, it'll be available to download in two days. Whatever. :P

But seriously, tell me how the idea of combining the Ranger and the Druid doesn't sound utterly redundant?

3 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 1 person marked this as a favorite.

Only one question per thread, so here we are (not my rule, just following the rules).

Can a Bastard Sword be chosen for the Heirloom Weapon trait, since it becomes a Martial weapon when used in two-hands?

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