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1,701 posts. No reviews. 1 list. No wishlists. 1 alias.

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So no one is happy with skills. There are an absolute ton of them and most classes get nowhere near enough skill points per level to flesh out a well-rounded character.

So, while most people suggest upping the number of Skill Points earned by most classes each level, I figured why not tackle some of the bloat in the list itself too.
For consideration:

•Acrobatics (absorbs Fly)
•Athletics (Jump, Climb, Swim all move to this new, sensical skill)
•Craft (Profession "goes here" - really it's just a useless skill, except for below)
•Handle Animal
•Knowledge: Arcana
•Knowledge: Dungeoneering
•Knowledge: Engineering
•Knowledge: History
•Knowledge: Local (absorbs Know: Nobility)
•Knowledge: Nature (absorbs part of Know: Geography)
•Knowledge: Planes
•Knowledge: Profession (the one use Profession had as a skill was as a way to fill a Knowledge that didn't exist, so why not just make it into it's own Knowledge skill, purchased seperately for each "profession" one needs to know how to do, such as Sailor for instance?)
•Knowledge: Religion
•Sense Motive
•Spellcraft (absorts UMD - no reason to have both)
•Subterfuge (becomes the "catch all" stealth and underhanded skill, absorbing Stealth, Slight of Hand, Disguise, Disable Device, and Bluff)

Yes, at first glance it seems like Subterfuge may be "overloaded," but honestly the same could be said of Perception and no one really minds that one. ;)

Thoughts/criticisms appreciated :)

Is there any way to get Summon Nature's Ally down to a Std Action?
I know there are feats that will allow Wizards/Clerics to get their summon casting down, but am unsure if there is an option for Druids to do the same.

I'm kinda feelin' a support Bard but I've never played a game with such low stats, so I'm lookin' for advice, any and all, about what's okay and what just won't work well.

I get that any class can *have* spellcraft ranked up, but without magic to actually back it up (specifically Detect Magic, although other spells can and do also apply), what is the point?

If a Lore Warden puts ranks in Spellcraft, what good did that actually do the character? Yes, you can identify spells as they are being cast, but you can't counter those spells, and you can't do anything to those spells once they are in place. You just get to know it's there, which you probably already knew since you just watched the caster cast a spell on him/herself.

I've seen people post that ranks in Know: Arcana and Spellcraft on their non-casters has helped them in the past.
Know:Arcana makes sense.
Spellcraft... I don't see how?

I recall in 3.X there was a splat book that included some feat options that made pairing different weapons actually somewhat attractive (I can't remember for the life of me which book though).

For instance, TWFing with an Axe/Knife combo. Or Longsword/Dirk. Etc.

Does *anything at all* exist like this in PF?

Starting a game and the GM has set some limitations:
Starting level is 3rd.
Wands, Potions, and Scrolls are all base value, but all other magical items cost 2x.
Wands start with 25 charges instead of 50.
3000g starting.

So obviously I'm masterworking all the things, and picking up some basic stuff, but that leaves a lot of gold burning a hole in my Inquisitor's pouch and I'm looking for ideas on things to spend it on.

Any tips are appreciated. :D

I know a Sun/Glory Cleric will wreck some undead face, and am very familiar with said build.

However, I haven't touched a Warpriest yet, and I wanna know how they compare doing the same role.

Advice appreciated!

Thoughts? Opinions?
I'm thinking Tetori wins but I'm willing to be convinced otherwise.

Don't mind me, just sulking out loud at how many feats my Dwarven Inquisitor needs.


For whatever reason, I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around these classes, as in "how they'll play" rather than "what they are."

Could I possibly get a 1 or 2 line real brief explanation on the playstyles of each Occult class? I'd really appreciate it. :D

Seems like a fun concept, but in practice would I be stretching myself too thin?

Fighters are notorious as being good at dealing damage and nothing else, and personally I've found that when playing a Fighter, once my build is finished, I no longer have anything to look forward to.
The lack of out-of-combat abilities/skill points makes having any real non-combat hobbies almost impossible.

The cop-out answer is always "roleplay" but that doesn't take into consideration that your character sheet is there to tell you what your strengths and weaknesses are, and when all of your strengths rely on killing something, it leaves a pretty big hole in the potential for believable roleplay.

Maybe I really enjoy cooking?
Well, I would if I could afford to put any points into Craft or Profession, but being Int-low and having only 2 skill points per level means I'm tapped out once the "adventure-necessary" skills are taken.

Any tips/tricks/hints/experience to give?

Staying relevant against higher encounters requires wealth. No class has the built-in tools to survive encounters designed to be a challenge after a certain threshold (especially at higher levels).
Martials need magical weapons and protections.
Casters need magical protections and ways to boost their spell's chances of successfully landing.
Everyone needs healing.

The Fighter needs only worry about equipping herself.
A Druid/Ranger/Hunter/etc. has to worry about equipping both themselves and their companion - A dire tiger is a huge boon at level 7, but those higher level demons are going to laugh it's pounce right off if it can't get through that DR.

If animal companions/eidolons/etc are treated as "class features" (which, by all arguments, they are), then they obviously shouldn't be granting bonus wealth to their players - that would be unfair to everyone else, right?
However, by not granting them bonus wealth, their "class features" can quickly become ineffectual (and in the worst cases, simply a liability).

6 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

The feat itself says, "You may choose a familiar with an alignment up to one step away on each alignment axis (lawful through chaotic, good through evil)," however the accompanying table does not match what the Feat describes.

For example, an Almiraj is a Neutral creature, but the Table suggests you can be "Any" alignment.
If you can, as the Feat text suggests, be up to one step away on each alignment axis, then this makes sense.

However, whether "on each axis" means once on each, or just once period has been asked and gone unanswered (the question I found was 4+ years old with no FAQ reply.)

Additionally, this should hold true for all other Neutral options, but it doesn't. For example, the Paracletus Aeon is also Neutral, but it's alignment requirement is listed as "Neutral," not "All."

Furthermore, some creature descriptions suggest you must be a specific alignment to have that creature as a Familiar. For example, the Lyrakien Azata has the text: "A chaotic good 7th-level spellcaster can gain a lyrakien as a familiar if she has the Improved Familiar feat."
Does the specific of the Azata trump the General of the Feat?
Or can you be one step away (such as CG, NG, or CN)?
Or can you be one step away on each axis (which would then include N)?

Many discrepancies, no FAQed answers I can find.
Does clarification exist for this and I missed it, or does Paizo still need to address it?

What are the specific rules surrounding creatures that are size Tiny or smaller and could I get a link to them please?

The PRD is incredibly unintuitive and I can't find them anywhere, save for the generic "size bonuses" table, which doesn't cover everything.

Improved Familiar is proving to be quite a pain! :)

Here are the Azata's stats. (2nd one down, after Brijidine.)

So, some of my problems:
•Outsiders have Full BAB progression and, as a Tiny creature, the Lyrakien should have the choice of whether to use Strength or Dexterity for it's To-Hit. 3HD with a 19 Dex should place it's Slam attack at a +7, however it is listed at a +2. Why? How? I don't understand...

•Outsiders have, "Skill points equal to 6 + Int modifier (minimum 1) per Hit Die. The following are class skills for outsiders: Bluff, Craft, Knowledge (planes), Perception, Sense Motive, and Stealth. Due to their varied nature, outsiders also receive 4 additional class skills determined by the creature's theme.
Firstly, I assume the Outsider skill proficiencies and the Familiar skill proficiencies stack?
Secondly, I have no way of knowing what the bolded skills are, and the Lyrakien has more than 4 listed skills that do not generally belong to Outsiders or Azatas specifically. How can I know which one's are getting the +3 Prof bonus and which ones aren't?

1 person marked this as a favorite.

There are quite a few spells that always end up "green/blue" on any caster guide, and for good reason:
Obscuring Mist
Sleet Storm
Stinking Cloud
Black Tentacles

and so on and so fourth. But the number of spells like this that allow you to choose the targets can probably be counted on one hand with fingers left over (Horrid Wilting comes to mind for extremely-high-level play).

So, how do you control the battlefield without also controlling your allies? Sure, if you can take the first action in combat and if the foes are starting totally separated from the allies and if the space you're fighting in is large enough to not be entirely engulfed in the spell effect, then yes it's amazing as a tactic.
But that's a whole lot of "ifs."

Curious about opinions here.

So I'm retiring a Witch early because, as it turns out, Slumber Hexing all the melee brutes isn't exactly riveting gameplay, even if it is really powerful.

But our last encounter with said character was just a total beatdown - for them!
Our level 7 party consists of:
•Your stereotypical Invulnerable Rager Barbarian
•A ranged-focused Hunter with a "big cat" companion.
•A Sun/Healing Cleric of Sarenrae
•A rather vanilla Unchained Rogue
•And a Paladin focusing around shield and "aid other" techniques.

Our BBEG was a Night Hag riding around on an Undead Nightmare, with quite a few Black Skeletons serving as fodder.

It was quite a fun fight, and the party managed quite nicely (and with more than a few Str penalties thrown around... those darn skeles!) to overcome in the end, but wow! Never have I felt more useless as a character!
The Hag's SR never even mattered, as it was either flat-out immune to my effects, or it's save bonuses were strong enough to make the rolls almost an after-thought! And since most of what a Witch has to offer is SoS/D effects, my options were incredibly limited.

How do people overcome this? Monsters designed to be a real challenge tend to have all the defenses they need to ignore targeted spellcasters. What's a Witch to do?

(Mostly just curious to see what peoples' responses are - I'm bringing in a Admixture Evoker "God" Wizard in place of the Witch; no more uselessness here, although it IS rather boring knowing that there is only one viable avenue to play a character. :/ )

My Evoker needs a hobby, and building golems sound like a fun in-character things to do.
Until that price tag.
Until those skill requirements.
Depending on the golem, those *spell* requirements!

Has anyone gone down this road before, and if so, was it worth the effort?
Also, if it was, what golems are reasonable to go for? (Adamantine is obviously a pipe-dream, but Iron? Stone? What'cha think?)

Just wondering what the general consensus is about which metamagic feats are good enough to actually learn, and which ones are wasted as a feat but great to have as a Rod.

If casting spontaneously, I can spend 1 point from my arcane reservoir to add a metamagic feat (that I know) to the spell without increasing it's casting time, but still using up the higher level spell slot? (This seems pretty straightforward.)

Alternatively, if casting a prepared spell that was already preped with metamagic, I can spend 1 point from my arcane reservoir to add another, different, metamagic feat effect (that I know) without changing it's level?
(ex: I prepare a Stilled Fireball as a 4th level spell. I can then spend 1 arcane point to make it a Stilled Quickened Fireball out of the 4th level slot?)
(This is less straightforward, but this seems to be what the ability is reading as.)

Do I have it right?

None of the Patron choices really jump out at me as, "Yes, must have this one." So I'm looking for friendly suggestions.

For an idea of the character, it'll just be your straight-forward "Offensive Debuffing" NE Half-Elf Witch - No Archetypes or PrCs.

Reading up Viking Irishman's Witch Guide and half-elf says swapping out for Arcane Training "is almost a must."

But why?

Obviously I'd want Witch to be my chosen Favored Class. Arcane Training lets you "use spell trigger and spell completion items for their favored class as if one level higher," but when does that actually help? Doesn't having just a single level in the class cover all the "trigger and/or completion" requirements you might need?
When would I ever benefit from being treated as a level higher? Using a Staff is the only thing I can even think of, and that's a really minor benefit for the most part.

Let's say I'm playing a level 8 Tetori and want to spend a Ki to gain Grab.
•How long does the Grab last? Is it only for that one attack the Ki was spent on? Does it last the rest of the combat?
•Is the intent of the ability that you always have Grab against smaller foes, but Equal-Sized costs 1 Ki and Larger-Sized costs 2? Or do you always have to spend at least 1 Ki, even for smaller foes?

Pathfinder finally gets around to Psionics!
And it's just Sorcerer by another name. =(

Is that really the best they could do?

I know this has been baked into the rules for umpteen years, but seriously, why do you need a +1 magical bonus on your sword before you can put any non-bonus magical enhancement on it?

It feels like all this does is make Divine support casters weaker than they should be.
I absolutely do not want to spend an entire spell slot just to give you a +1 bonus, but that's all (Greater) Magic Weapon/Vestment is going to do from levels 1-11 (ie: the huge majority of your career).

It seems so wasteful and dumb. Am I the only one?

Say a Halfling Witch has the following feats:
•Malicious Eye (Evil Eye assumed)
•Sluggish Jinx
•Great Fortitude
•Bolster Jinx

So your Evil Eye target takes an additional penalty on Initiative and Attacks equal to your Jinx penalty to saves, thanks to Sluggish Jinx/Malicious Eye. Except the Jinx penalty is different for different saves because of Bolster Jinx + Great Fort.

Assuming lowest values:
Evil Eye is a -2 penalty, and Jinx is a -1 Penalty.
So with Bolster+GF added in, save penalties are:
Fort -5
Ref -3
Will -3

So what is the penalty that is actually applied to Attack/Init values? Do you go with the -3 because that is an actual Jinx value? Or the -1, which is also an actual Jinx value? (Values -2 because Evil Eye must be applied separately to affect Attack and it doesn't affect Init at all.)

No, really.
1 point at level 7 makes no difference.
5 points at level 20 means you might survive the TPK one round longer than everyone else. Two if you're super-lucky. But it won't swing the fight in your favor.

There's a reason most Barbs go Invulnerable Rager - Because it turns flimsy DR into DR you aren't embarrassed by.

So, that being said... Would it even be all that unbalanced to just change the standard Barb DR scale to work like the Invuln Rager scale, and just award 1 point every other level?

Is it anything that requires an attack roll?
Is it one of those, "just use common sense cuz the rules aren't going to get that specific for you?"
Is it something else?

I'm curious why spells such as Obscuring Mist or Darkness are always touted as such amazing control spells.

Yes, they make it very hard for the enemy to effectively target you!
They also make it very hard for you to target the enemy...

How do you work around this so it's not just a total wash?

Bad Touch Cleric, Witch, Wizard, Arcanist... Who does it best?
Right now I'm stuck between BTCleric and Witch, but I can be sold on another option.

Thanks :)

Other than the Loss or Undead Sub-domains, is there any way for a Cleric to get the Enervation spell? It's basically the only thing missing from the "Bad Touch" toolbox, IMO.

Who does it better? I'm getting a backup character ready in case my current one bites the dust, and I've decided on going the debuffer route, but can't really decide between these two.

Are there rules about what happens with a permanent, continuous effect (such as a Leonal's Protective Aura) when the creature involved is asleep, or knocked unconscious?

Do creatures that possess (or are granted) these continuous Su effects have control over them or are they always active no matter what? (ie: Could the Leonal from the above example choose to suppress it's Protective Aura, like you can do with SR, or is it stuck with it always active?)

Tried searching but I can't seem to find any general rules surrounding Continuous effects.

So I'm about to start playing a Leonal as a character and I have no idea what to name him.

Is there any info out there on Agathian (or any Outsider) naming conventions?
Does anyone have any suggestions otherwise?


4 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

What's the ruling on this? Is there even a ruling? I know most people won't allow it because it's obviously strong, but I'm not looking for opinions - I'm looking for rules.

The obvious ways are, "be mounted" which comes with potential logistical problems (thos mount issues, tho...), or "get Pounce" which has the drawback of requiring a charge.

What are other ways to build a melee type that doesn't get totally shut down by movement?

•Takes a Standard action, and can be undone with a move-action.
•Requires feat investment to avoid AoO.
•Penalties choices are all pretty minor and wear off quickly.

Yet I see people suggest it all the time. Am I alone in thinking this?

Near-epic 3.5 game is converting to PF and I really have no idea how to even approach this, lol.
Any tips or suggestions are highly appreciated!

IotSFV = Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil, for those who don't know.

Just looking for unique and interesting ideas on how others would build their Eidolon for a Synthesist Summoner.

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

Many abilities come with the phrase, "may not be used when holding/carrying a weapon or shield in the off hand," or something similar that implies carrying and does not mention wielding.

One example is the Dervish Dance feat:

When wielding a scimitar with one hand, you can use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on melee attack and damage rolls. You treat the scimitar as a one-handed piercing weapon for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon (such as a duelist’s precise strike ability). The scimitar must be for a creature of your size. You cannot use this feat if you are carrying a weapon or shield in your off hand.

Bolded for emphasis.

So the question is, if you are carrying a weapon that doesn't require a hand to use (such as a boot blade or armor spikes), then are you always considered to be "carrying a weapon in your off hand" even when not wielding that weapon?
If not, then how does it work, considering the RAW on "off hands" doesn't actually have anything to do with using the body part "hand?"

Any FAQ hits are appreciated. :)

This question applies to Oracles and Mysteries as well.

For example, the Trickery domain is wonderful and fun and the god(s) of thieves, assassins, etc. do all have their clergy, but the generic divine spell list is AWFUL for a stealthy, murderous assassin/thief type character.

Or Fire/Sun Cleric having only a tiny handful of fire based options.
Or a Water Cleric having even less than a tiny handful of water/ice based spells.

The Domain/Mystery bonus spells can only go so far. How do you reconcile the "few-trick pony" divine list with the various supported archetypes that don't fall in line?


Kneejerk assumption was Ninja/Oracle of Waves, but I can't get over just how awful the divine list is for an offensive character.

The bonus skills, spells, revelations, are all great, but the Cleric/Oracle spell list has so very few offensive and/or Ice/Water spells to complement the character.

Would a Sorcerer be a better fit maybe? I'm not sure.

Any advice is appreciated!

How do you feel about this exploit?
On the one hand, it's one of the few reliable ways to recharge Arcane Reservoir without resting.
On the other hand, this seems like a really *expensive* ability to use. Destroying single-use consumables for a single point. Eating up 5 whole charges from a wand? (That's 5 spells for one point! [rarely 2 points]).

Just can't decide if it's really worth it. Thoughts?

And if you do, how long do you manage before it gets tiring and campy?

Indulge me a moment?
Let's take a look at the Greenrager archetype for the Bloodrager class.
The whole point of this archetype is to turn the Bloodrager into a mini-summoner. You gain Summon Nature's Ally 1-4, and the things you summon gain bonuses depending on your level.

My question - who cares?

Unless you need a summon for a utility feature (flying, burrowing, etc.) then the summons available to you are trash by the time you can actually summon them.
A Greenrager is level 13 before he can cast SNA4. From what I can see, Tiger is the best option on the list.
A CR4 animal.
Even with the bonuses you give it, how does it not get one or two-shot by the enemies you are going to be facing at level 13+? Answer: It always does. If you are lucky, it gets it a single attack routine. If you are even more lucky, it manages to land a few attacks. And then it's dead.

The entire point of an archetype defeated simply because it's focus came too late in the leveling career. Really?

This extends far beyond Greenrager too.
Look at the Fire Shield spell. It's a pretty weak option for a spell even when you can cast it as at Wizard-levels (level 7, in case you were wondering). So in what world is it a good option to take when you have to wait until character level 13 to cast it as a Bloodrager, when it wasn't even a very solid option 5 levels prior?

And the argument extends to all classes saddled with stunted spell lists:

Case in point: There is a reason Paladins aren't stuck with a stunted Cleric list.
There is a reason why Rangers aren't stuck with a stunted Druid list.
There is a reason why Bards aren't stuck with a stunted Sorcerer list.
There is a reason why Magi aren't stuck with a stunted Wizard list.
There is a reason why Summoner isn't stuck with a stunted Sorcerer list.
There is a reason why Inquisitor isn't stuck with a stunted Cleric list.
Why don't the new classes get the same consideration?

Say your party successfully defeats an extremely powerful lich. Huzzah!
Say then that your caster uses the Soul Bind spell on the defeated lich.
What happens? Does the lich's soul return to it's phylactery or does it get stored in the soul bind gem?

I'm curious how GMs and Players alike deal with the necromancer's favorite material component, considering fun facts like:

•Onyx isn't a very valuable rock, so 25g/50g chunks are going to be particularly huge (probably not fitting into any eye sockets!).
•Components list doesn't clarify if lots of onyx adding up to the required amount works, or if you need a single piece of the stuff per undead animated/created. This also ties into the above point - if trying to create a 18HD undead (a common number, as that's a T-Rex which make for great undead), that's 900gp worth of Onyx, and that's a LOT of onyx, *especially* if it has to be a single piece!

Bringing a Juju (pre-errata) Oracle into my current game and I'm just looking for good ideas on spells to take. Spells are largely pulled from 3.5 but I can argue for PF versions as well.
Any advice is appreciated as always.

What are the ways I can go about doing this?
Case in point: I'm thinking of rolling up a Necromancer as a Cleric and doing the full "undead hordes" thing, but I still want to have access to the more fun necro spells, like Magic Jar.

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