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I agree, but if you look at other curses out there, the curse aspect is basically negated, or doesn't matter anymore (look at haunted, it offers so many benefits compared to a minor hindrance)
Also keep in mind that a muted oracle can never use command word items, and that never truly goes away, you can bypass it using someone else's voice, but that's it.
Clearly the grapple rules were meant to be used up close, but the spell lets you do combat maneuvers at range, just imagine Darth Vader using the force to render someone helpless (or in this case grappled from afar). I think you have to adjust the rules to improve upon the rules as written to improve the narrative of telekinesis.
There's blinded sight, deaf, but no mute oracle curse, so I decided to design my own! can you give me any thought on it please? I appreciate all manners of feedback!
Mute Oracle Curse
You cannot speak, you take a -10 penalty to Bluff, Diplomacy, Handle Animal, and Intimidate checks, cannot put or use any skill points in skills that rely purely on speaking, such a Perform (Sing, Oratory), can only understand languages with Linguistics. You cast all of your spells as if they were modified by the Silent Spell feat. This does not increase their level or casting time. You cannot cast any spell that is language-dependant and cannot use items that have a command word (Can still use spell completion and spell trigger activation items).
At 5th level you can speak to any willing intelligent being that shares a language with you within touch range, furthermore, if the target is willing, use their voice to speak for you (using their tone) as if using Ventriloquism, except the object is the person touched, and any intelligent being that hears this effect does not need to make a will save since this is not an illusion effect. While using this effect you don’t take the penalties for being mute including items that have a command word, or require that the user speaks to activate.
At 10th level you can talk directly in to the minds of any intelligent individual that shares a language with you within 100 feet of you, treat this effect as a constant telepathy effect, targets that wish to supress this effect can throw one will save (DC is 10 + ½ Oracle level + Charisma modifier), individuals that make their save can supress this effect for 24 hours. While using this effect you don’t take the penalties for being mute, except that you can’t use items that have a command word or as long as unwilling individuals fail their will save (Can still use spell completion and spell trigger activation items).
At 15th level you can use telepathy to speak with any intelligent individual, and they don’t get a will save to supress the effect. Furthermore you can cast Sending a number of times per day equal to your oracle level. While using this effect you don’t take the penalties for being mute except that you can’t use items that have a command word (Can still use spell completion and spell trigger activation items).
Hello there Paizonians, I made a custom class and I'm posting it here to get your feedback and opinions on it, everything is subject to change so, please let me know what do you think/what needs improvement etc.
Hit Die: d8
Base Attack Bonus: 3/4 (As a Cleric, Druid etc.)
Good Save: Will
Spells per day: Same as a Wizard (See below for more information).
The Kinetimancer’s class skills are Acrobatics (Dex*), Climb (Str*), Craft (Int), Disable Device (Dex*), Escape Artist (Dex*), Fly (Dex*), Knowledge Arcana (Int), Knowledge Geography (Int), Knowledge Engineering (Int), Perception (Wis), Profession (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex*), Spellcraft (Int) and Swim (Str*).
Skill Ranks per level: 4 + Intelligence modifier.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Kinetimancers are proficient with all simple and martial weapons. They are also proficient with light armor and shields (except tower shields). A kinetimancer can cast kinetimancer spells while wearing light armor and use a shield without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance. Like any other arcane spellcaster, a kinetimancer wearing medium or heavy armor incurs a chance of arcane spell failure if the spell in question has a somatic component. A multiclass kinetimancer still incurs the normal arcane spell failure chance for arcane spells received from other classes.
Trapfinding: A kinetimancer adds 1/2 his level to Perception skill checks made to locate traps and to Disable Device skill checks (minimum +1). A kinetimancer can use Disable Device to disarm magic traps.
Force Pool: A kinetimancer is adept at manipulating objects and people with the power of his mind alone, as such he has deviced ingenious ways to manipulate his telekinetic ability in various ways. A kinetimancer has a force pool that renews each day after taking 8 hours of sleep, it refreshes at the same time his daily spells refresh. The pool has points equal to 4 + his Intelligence modifier . The kinetimancer increases his force pool by 2 for each level beyond the first.
Force Talents: Starting at first level and every 2 levels thereafter, the kinetimancer may choose a new force talent, provided he meets prerequisites, if any. At 3rd level and above, the kinetimancer may replace his previous force talent with a new one, provided that talent wasn’t used as a prerequisite for an older one. You cannot take any force talent more than once, unless otherwise noted.
Ranged Legerdemain(Su): By spending 1 force pool point a kinetimancer can use Disable Device and Sleight of Hand at a range of 30 feet. Working at a distance increases the normal skill check DC by 2, and the kinetimancer cannot take 10 on this check. Any object to be manipulated must weigh 25 pounds or less. He can only use this ability if he has at least 1 rank in the skill being used.
Focused Telekinetic Tinkering: By spending 1 force point, as a swift action, you get +4 bonus to your Ranged Legerdemain force talent. You must have the Ranged Legerdemain force talent to take this talent.
Improved Ranged Legerdemain(Su): Your ranged legerdemain no longer increases the DC by 2, you can take 10 on this ability, and can now manipulate any object that weighs 50 pounds or less. You must have Ranged Legerdemain talent and be at least a 7th level kinetimancer in order to take this force talent.
Dancing Weapon(Su): By spending one force point you cause a single one-handed melee weapon to fly from your grasp and strike a foe before instantly returning to you. As a standard action, or as a full-round action (provided you can attack more than once per round) you can make an attack using a melee weapon at a range of 30 feet. This attack is treated as a ranged attack with a thrown weapon, except that you add your Intelligence modifier on the attack roll instead of your Dexterity modifier and add your Intelligence Modifier to the damage.
Dancing Whirlwind(Su): By spending 3 points from your force pool, as a full-round action, you can make a single attack at your highest base attack bonus to all enemies within 20 feet of you, the attack and damage is calculated as the Dancing Weapon talent. You must be at least a 9th level kinetimancer and must have the Dancing Weapon force talent.
Two-handed Dancing Weapon(Su): By spending 2 points from his force pool the kinetimancer can now use two-handed weapons with his dancing weapon ability. You must have the Dancing Weapon force talent in order to take this force talent.
Dual Dancing Weapons(Su): By spending 2 points from his force pool the kinetimancer can now use two one-handed weapons with his dancing weapon ability. Dual Dancing Weapons counts as Ambidexterity for feat prerequisites. You take attack penalties the same way as if dual weilding. You must have the Dancing Weapon force talent in order to take this force talent.
Telekinetic Combat Maneuver(Su): By spending 1 point from the force pool per combat maneuver (up to your normal attacks per round), a kinetimancer can perform a bullrush, disarm, grapple (including a pin, grapple uses 1 force pool point every turn if the hold is maintained), reposition, or trip to a target within a range of 30 feet with a size bonus as a medium-sized creature (+0 size bonus). Resolve these attempts as normal , except the kinetimancer does not provokes attacks of opportunity, you use your kinetimancer level in place of your Combat Maneuver Bonus and you add your intelligence modifier in place of your Strength or Dexterity modifier.
Greater Telekinetic Maneuver: You can spend an additional point per combat maneuver in order to use the greater version of that manuever (Greater grapple, greater trip, etc.). You must be at least a 7th level kinetimancer and have Telekinetic Combat Maneuver in order to take this force talent.
Telekinetic Combat Defense(Su): Whenever you are the target of a combat manuever, the kinetimancer can, as an immediate action, spend force pool points in order to increase his size modifier until the beginning of his next turn and use his Intelligence modifier in place of his Strength or Dexterity modifier. You must be at least a 5th level kinetimancer in order to take this force talent.
Size Modifier Force Cost Minimum Level
Indomitable Will: If the kinetimancer fails a will saving throw, he can, as an immediate action, spend 2 force points in order to roll another save with a +4 bonus.
Tandem Dancing Maneuver: By spending 3 force points as a standard action , you can make a single dancing weapon attack and attempt one telekinetic combat maneuver against the same target. You must have the Dancing Weapon and Telekinetic Combat Maneuver force talents in order to choose this force talent.
Empower Maneuver: You can expend more force pool points in order to affect targets that are otherwise too large to target with your combat maneuvers. You must be a level 7th kinetimancer in order to choose this talent. You are considered to be that size when using a combat maneuver:
Size Modifier Force Cost Minimum Level
Extend Range: Choose either Dancing Weapon, Ranged Legerdemain, or Telekinetic Combat Maneuver and increase the range of that talent by 30 feet. You can choose this talent more than once, its effect does not stack, instead choose another talent to increase the range.
Force Talent Mastery: Select a force talent that uses force pool points. That force talent uses 1 less force point (minimum 1 point used). You can choose this talent more than once, its effect does not stack, each time you take this talent, select another talent that qualifies.
Force Synergy: You can spend 1 force pool point as you cast any spell with the force descriptor that allows a save to increase the spell save DC by +1 or to add +1 to any spell resistant check made by you .
Greater Force Synergy: Increase the spell save DC by +1 or to add +1 to any spell resistant check made by you. Stacks with Force Synergy for a total of +2 to a force spell DC or to overcome spell resistance. You must have the Force Synergy talent in order to take Greater Force Synergy.
Force Admixture: Once per day, you can cast a kinetimancer spell and use a force talent as a full-round action. You must be at least an 11th level kinetimancer in order to take this force talent.
Mass Telekinetic Maneuver: By spending 5 force pool points, as a full-round action, choose a combat maneuver, a kinetimancer can target all units within 20 feet of each other within range of the Telekeinetic Maneuver force talent and have them all be target of the selected combat manuever (Roll once and compare to each creature affected). You can spend additional points to increase your size modifier with Empower Manuever. You must be at least a level 11th kinetimancer and have the Telekinetic Combat Maneuver and the Empower Maneuver force talents in order to take this talent.
Kinetic Apotheosis: At level 20, whenever a kinetimancer uses force pool points or casts a spell, he has a 20% chance of recovering the force pool points or spell slot used.
Kinetimancer Spell List:
1st – Adjuring Step ,Animate Rope , Dancing Lantern, Feather Fall, Jump, Floating Disk, Hold Portal, Liberating Command, Mage Armor, Magic Missile, Peacebond, Shield, Unseen Servant.
2nd – Admonishing Ray, Arcane Lock, Cushioning Bands, Instant Armor, Glide,Kinetic Reverberation, Levitate, Pilfering Hand, Protection from Arrows, Returning Weapon, Spiritual Weapon, Telekinetic Assembly,Warding Weapon.
3rd – Ablative Barrier, Armor Lock, Battering Blast, Chain of Perdition, Explosive Runes, Fly, Force Hook Charge, Force Punch, Hostile Levitation, Protection From Arrows (Communal),Returning Weapon (Communal), Sepia Snake Sigil, Shining Cord, Tiny Hut, Twilight Knife, Wrathful Mantle.
4th – Emergency Force sphere, Forceful Strike, Globe of Invulnerability (Lesser), Resilient Sphere, Spiritual Ally, Telekinetic Charge, Ward Shield.
5th – Interposing Hand, Life Bubble, Overland Flight, Telekinesis (Sustained Force or Violent Thrust only), Unseen Crew, Wall of Force, Wreath of Blades.
6th – Blade Barrier, Control Water, Enemy Hammer, Forceful Hand, Globe of Invulnerability, Leashed Shackles, Move Earth, Sign of Wrath, Symbol of Sealing.
7th – Deflection, Fly (Mass), Forcecage, Grasping Hand, Mage’s Sword, Spell Turning, Reverse Gravity.
8th – Clenched Fist,Telekinetic Sphere, Temporal Stasis .
9th – Crushing Hand, Implosion, Winds of Vengeance.
New Bonus Feats
Extra Force Pool
Extra Force Talent
How about instead of being a binary on an off thing, it is gradual, let's say for example, a Paladin has done something to anger or displease his/her god, but the god doesn't want to lose a Paladin, so in order to let the Paladin know he/she is not acting Paladin-ish he/she suffers power incontinence, say a spell fizzles when it shouldn't, smites fail but are still consumed etc. Would add a bit of versimilitude to the game. If the Paladin keeps doing "evil" stuff then their contract is terminated - so to speak. If the Paladin "fixes" whatever it was doing wrong, then the power incontinence stops.
I agree 100% with your statement, It appears that the forum boards are still populated by Paladin haters :S
Well, this story is not mine, it was from a previous DM my current group of friends had to bear with, I'll keep it short.
They encountered some mysterious knights with some abbreviated letters in their armor, needless to say, they started dying one by one once they interacted with them, no saving rolls, no attacks, no nothing. My friend who told me this managed to make out one of the plates which had F.M. (Famine Knight), so he threw a piece of food at him.
The DM said to him; "The Famine Knight leaves, but you die in the process"
Needless to say they had a killer DM, so they were weary of me at first thinking I would do the same, needless to say, they liked my campaign a lot since I gave them flexibility ;p
At lower levels you could have more armor than a martial character, with a dex of 14, mage armor and shield, you can have an armor class of 20! I don't think many monsters have that much hit at lower levels, so the squishy spellcaster is a myth, at least until monsters start getting more hit bonuses.
I think you can do many of the old and new spells with Suggestion alone, think about it:
Compassionate Ally - suggestion that the enemy should help this pathetic creature.
Unnatural Lust - suggestion that target looks rather sexy and should smother it a bit.
Oppressive boredom - suggestion that you are extremely bored (or something to that effect).
Charm Anything - suggestion that your allies are plotting against you, help use defeat them.
Divine spells are granted by dieties.
Arcane spells are learned via reasoning (wizards), or innate (sorcerer, bards, summoners etc.)
No matter the source, arcane or divine, the end result is about the same, they are all still spells.
Think of spells as art styles, varied, yet, they are all art :)
This is the reason you can use counterspell without considering the origin of the spell, and so forth. Like a divine haste, can still counter and dispel an arcane slow.
Master Summoner> all, no seriously, their summon monster spell-like gives them lots of versatility, add the 1 minute per summoner level duration and standard action to summon, and you have a scary summoner.
Of course, your DM has ways around it, banishment, protection spells, mass dispel magic etc. etc.
If you think that one is awful, go take a look at the Aasimar Purifier (Oracle).
"Devil's Advocate" wrote:
Yeah that seems good too, the problem, as someone else mentioned, is that metamagic without level adjustments is TOO GOOD, but as is, they are a pain to use without ways to reduce the cost with the traits and spell perfection.
Getting a middle-of-the-road effect is the hard part...
How about an alternate rule or feat that allows you to apply metamagic effects without increasing the spell level by using other spell slots or prepared spells that lets you use the spell level to pay for the level increase?
So for example, want to maximize a fireball at level 5? then waste 2 slots of fireball (1 for casting, and 1 to pay the cost of the +3 maximize feat). A maximized fireball at level 5 would deal 30 damage without counting energy resistance, evasion and saves.
With this feature or feat, you could apply metamagic to a spell early on, but you couldn't do it for extended fights anyways, since you are burning spells slots like crazy.
Also, you cannot apply combinations of metamagic that would increase the spell level beyond 9th (as using the standard method), and can sacrifice multiple spells to reduce the cost further (but not lower than 0).
So in keeping with the example above you could sacrifice 3 1st level spells, or two 1st level spells and a 2nd level spell, or a 3rd level spell.
You gain the elemental attribute which gives you immunity to lots of things, including critical hits and/or sneak attacks, you can heal yourself as a move action, or heal other allies that move to you once per turn if you so desire, you also gain the ability to hurt undead in all sorts of ways.
That's it, nothing more is gained.
The "resembling a golden-white elemental" is just fluff for a holy elemental (well considering everything has an elemental, a holy elemental isn't that far off)
I'd just like to mention, Ashiel, that while I wholeheartedly share your view of summoning, binding, and possibly other spells with the [Evil] descriptor, I've found that the one area where Pathfinder seems to be rather narrow-minded is that repeatedly casting spells with the [Evil] descriptor makes you evil, regardless of what you do with that spell. I actually debated James Jacobs over this about Infernal Healing and Paladins (specifically an example of a Paladin with no healing left but a scroll of Infernal Healing and a dying child), and he was unwavering on the issue, which I always found somewhat absurd.
Yeah I find that alignment changing rule to be silly, I always argue that ACTIONS taken with the spell determines the "Alignment". My classic example; Fireball, has no alignment, but take in to account the action of casting fireball to defend a town against bandits, vs. the action of burning innocent bystanders, because you got "bored".
I don't know about you, but to me being a coward is someone who is constantly running away, or trembling in fear, doing no actions, if all you do is run away or don't even cast spells (on yourself or others) then that is cowardice, buffing yourself while still providing support to the party somehow is not cowardice.
I really see no issue how Ravindork is playing his character.
You want to nerf something that is already sub-par at best?
Whoa whoa whoa so if you min/max a Tian Bard 1/Magi X with Wayang Spellhunter and Magical Lineage on a Shocking Grasp then you have a Level 0 pseudo "cantrip" doing 10d6??? Im smelling the scent of cheese or overlooking something so now im interested =D
You can't lower the spell level using this method, if you reduced it below 0, it becomes 0.
Or when you have an inseparable couple which one of them is a pleasure to play along, but the other is a damned deadweight load, then proceeds to play WoW, WITHOUT headsets, and you get *the look* because you had the nerves of telling him to use some damned headsets!
Umbral Reaver wrote:
My only gripe with prepared versus spontaneous is the delayed spell access, the other cons are more bearable.
1. No, you don't threaten with it unless you have the whip feat (and then it's only 5 feet of threatening)
2. A scorpion whip counts as whips for proficiencies and the like (think of it as a way improved whip, its even light, so you can wield two with improved two-weapon fighting at -2 penalty).
3. I think so
Antagonize isn't that broken since you have to use a standard action to use it, meaning, you can't even attack, is language dependant, is a mind effect and worst of all, it only works once a day per target, some people have overrated that feat way too much, granted it was broken with the-next-to-impossible-save, which has been errata'ed.