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Chain Mauler

Necromancer's page

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber. 1,568 posts (1,605 including aliases). 3 reviews. 1 list. No wishlists. 8 aliases.


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Irontruth wrote:
Necromancer wrote:
thejeff wrote:
Left unsaid here is that this only applies to administrative college actions, not to actual rape trials. No criminal penalties are at stake. That makes me a lot less concerned about shifting the burden of proof. It's not a criminal trial. That's where the whole "beyond a reasonable doubt" thing comes in.

An accusation of sexual assault (let alone an accusation of rape) can ruin someone's career before it even begins. If someone's expelled from a college after a biased hearing, there's a good chance they won't get into other colleges if that knowledge follows them. This is in addition to wasting the accused student's time and money.

Above all, it's simply not right to do this to innocent students. False accusations should be punished just as severely whether they go to criminal courts or college disciplinary hearings.

Are you aware that often times women face social backlash that ruins THEIR careers just for reporting a rape? Even rapes that are real.

You know why, right? If they can blame the victim, then it's not something that can happen to them.

We also need to stop telling victims they're special for being victims. This cultural attitude needs to stop. They need to be encouraged (and supported) to properly report the crime and get the medical evidence needed to secure a conviction. We need to stop praising victims for their mere existence (and unknowingly telling liars that being a victim is a desired state) and instead listen when they want to talk and support them when they're low. None of this involves removing burdens of proof.

Victims are best served by truth.


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thejeff wrote:
Left unsaid here is that this only applies to administrative college actions, not to actual rape trials. No criminal penalties are at stake. That makes me a lot less concerned about shifting the burden of proof. It's not a criminal trial. That's where the whole "beyond a reasonable doubt" thing comes in.

An accusation of sexual assault (let alone an accusation of rape) can ruin someone's career before it even begins. If someone's expelled from a college after a biased hearing, there's a good chance they won't get into other colleges if that knowledge follows them. This is in addition to wasting the accused student's time and money.

Above all, it's simply not right to do this to innocent students. False accusations should be punished just as severely whether they go to criminal courts or college disciplinary hearings.


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Zeugma wrote:
Necromancer wrote:

To help get us back on track:

Kafkatrapping

This is why I'm concerned for game culture, because this is common in other media industries and growing in society at large. Please read.

2 points:

1. Claims of "concern for [fill in the blank] culture" make me think of the claims made against heavy metal in the '80s, and all the moral panics preceding it, including D&D. It just reads as ironic.

And including claims of nonexistent sexism in video games, film, etc. The biggest criticisms of video games that I've seen in the last few years is that they are subject to the free market. This is not a bad thing (as much as I like to complain about limited options in AAA titles), because it's a form of honesty at the end of the day.

Zeugma wrote:
2. The invocation of Kafka left me very disappointed in the article as written. I was hoping for Kafka criticism. This is not it. I've read The Trial and I've read a lot of Kafka criticism. This was a shallow use of a story with many more dimensions to it that those he pointed out. An alternate reading (arrived at by several authors in the Ronald Gray anthology Franz Kafa: A Collection of Critical Essays): Kafka's K was guilty. There is no escape from guilt. The fact it can be invoked to make us do/think/feel things is not some flaw but the sum of its function, which Kafka was brilliant at describing. Does it make you feel bad? Then it is doing its job. Some external referent isn't necessary. The author seems to think this is bad for society. He is wrong. Kafka would tell him it is society, and, more than that, it is K.

Having guilt (which can be natural or manufactured) is not the same as being guilty of a crime. The point of the Der Prozess was that there was no escape from guilt in that society, whether deserving or not.


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|dvh| wrote:
Also, non-credible sources are non-credible. The American Enterprise Institute is about as biased as one can get on economic matters. They (and Sohmers) don't seem that keen on gender issues, either.

Data is data and deliberately obscure statistics (the 77% garbage) are always agenda-driven.

As for gender issues, I think you should watch this. No connection to AEI whatsoever.


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In an effort to get this thread back on track, here's some comments from Chris Mancil (of EA, of all companies) from a very neutral perspective on recent events:

Chris Mancil (partial quote) wrote:


I think the real problem here is alienation. Not of values. That’s misguided. Its not liberal/conservative values, politics, or world-view. Its fear of being meaningless. Its about our loss of connection between ordinary gamers and the games industry. We are losing our connection with people. I think our industry has been drifting further and further away from our fans, as our business get larger, and our global reach gets broader.

This lack of a relationship, of mutual feedback, of a personal connection between ourselves and the audience (I believe) is really the true culprit of most deep seated anger here. There is no connection with us, no trust, not even understanding. Yet gamers depend more and more on us for their primary entertainment (important!) and we absolutely depend on them as customers. Yet, our relationship – is increasingly one-sided. They being the unit sale, the % converted on the acquisition funnel, or the revenue target – not the person, the player, the gamer who is (or was) exactly like all of us. We NEED them, and they KNOW we need them. They NEED us too – but have we forgotten that? Do we sometimes feel, we don’t really need them?

This alienation and dependency brings about epic rage – think banks, cellular providers, airlines, cable companies and the hate those relationships generate with customers who NEED that service but get treated like beasts… that’s our future (some would say our present). And in this environment, a back-handed slap to a mass group of gamers who are mass-labeled “misogynists” “rapists” “gamers are dead” “Games ashamed” are just *fighting words* yelled by a distant, contemptuous, un-connected gaming entity that is part of the establishment elite – and this same recipe (the exact same spark) of every single race/political/protest riot the world over from the beginning of time.

Link to the article and to Mancil's comment

I seriously hope he doesn't suffer any disciplinary action for disagreeing with the accepted narrative.


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mechaPoet wrote:
But the degree to which women are constantly forced to "prove" their nerd-cred to these defensive men to be allowed to participate is far greater than what these men require of other men. Hence the annoying concept of the "fake geek girl," where a woman's interest in nerd-things is questioned and mocked instead of welcomed or assumed.

Let me provide something that might help you understand other peoples' perspectives.

I have a problem with the phrase "nerd-cred". I know of very few people that are willing to call themselves "nerds" who are enthusiasts about varying things people are often called nerds for obsessing over. When someone perceives a simple question about their favorite flavor of a prefered hobby or an obscure element used to gauge the depth of their involvement as "being forced to prove their nerd-cred", I question their reasons for so boldly embracing a label rather than the hobby.

When I claim to "love WoW lore and the older games, but hate the MMO" many people are generally curious what the hell I'm talking about and can't imagine that anyone would've played anything older than Frozen Throne. The questions I get are not me being forced to prove WoW-Nerd-Badge credentials as much as being forced to defend my position in relation to their's.


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mechaPoet wrote:

Which women can't relate to because women don't suffer from high rates of violence in comparison to men.

Oh wait.

US DoJ, Criminal Victimization 2013 wrote:

Persons ages 12 to 17 had the highest prevalence of violence (2.2%) of all age groups in 2013

In 2013, 1.2% of all males age 12 or older (1.6 million males) and 1.1% of all females (1.5 million females) experienced one or more violent victimizations (table 5). While the prevalence rate declined for both males and females from 2012 to 2013, a slightly higher percentage of males (1.2%) than females (1.1%) were victims of one or more violent crimes in 2013.

Linked (page 6)

US DoJ, Criminal Victimization 2013 wrote:

Male - 1,925,560 (2004) 1,917,390 (2012) 1,567,070 (2013)

Female - 1,553,060 (2004) 1,658,520 (2012) 1,474,090 (2013)


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thejeff wrote:
Necromancer wrote:
thejeff wrote:
This also speaks to the line thrown out earlier about "We can't have female avatars or the feminists will complain about violence against women." Which of course doesn't actually happen in any of the games with female avatars.
Those of us that play games and can make the connections understand this; some publishers might not so that reason is a possibility.
Of course it was you calling such accusations "inevitable" with a female avatar a couple of pages back. And yet, inevitable or not, they don't happen. Because the crazy radical feminists actually understand what "violence against women" means.
Necromancer wrote:


They do have "excuses" (or rather, reasons) why they've avoided the extra step: significant success without taking the extra step, few women play the games, decision to focus on additional mechanics (new weapons, vehicles, misc tech, etc.) in lieu of female models, and likely a publisher resistance to risk the inclusion of one element at the cost of other elements (e.g. mechanics or graphic improvements) that will be included by competitors. With the way some "critics" react, it's little wonder that publishers are wary of including female avatars out of a desire to avoid the inevitable "violence against women" accusations (despite the thousands of male character deaths piling up on scoreboards).

I was speaking from the publisher's (albeit perceived) perspective. Paragraph provided for reference.

thejeff wrote:
Necromancer wrote:
thejeff wrote:
Except in cases where things happen to them that don't happen to their male counterparts. Like having rape as their origin/motivation.
There's a reason why we rarely see male victims of rape in video games: many people believe men cannot be victims of heterosexual rape. Insane, right? Absolutely, but that is a big reason.
I should have expected it. Mention rape in a discussion about sexism and the "Men get raped too" thing pops up right away.

The immediate topic I was responding to was "rape as a motivation/background element" within a discussion of "alleged sexism in gaming". Please don't be dismissive about a very real and largely ignored problem.

thejeff wrote:

I suspect the main reason is that it would drive male players away in droves. At least if it's not played up as hot.

We also don't see male victims of homosexual rape very often. Certainly not as protagonists.

Correction: we don't see either gender as victims of rape very often. It's a mature matter and will discourage younger buyers as well as gamers that just want a title without an unpleasant story to work around.


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[tangent]
GamerGate is focused on addressing corruption in video games journalism, fighting back outside influences (non-gamers) attempting to manipulate gamer culture, defying censorship covering up the two previous concerns, exposing propaganda masquerading as fact, encouraging new video games journalists, and preserving the existence of a relative free market in game development. The Wikipedia article has been censored time and time again so as to present only "acceptable" narratives.

Professional victims, cultural Marxism, and non-gamers have no business dictating how hardcore game development should progress and what topics should be included.
[/tangent]

I know some would love to keep baiting and trolling to get this thread locked, but can we please get back to the original topic?

onto the sciencedirect link

Karen E. Dill, Brian P. Brown, Michael A. Collins wrote:


Abstract

The violent video game literature has previously not extended to the domain of violence against women. The current investigation tested the effects of exposure to sex-typed video game characters versus images of professional men and women on judgments and attitudes supporting aggression against women. Results showed experimental effects of short-term exposure to stereotypical media content on sexual harassment judgments but not on rape myth acceptance. A significant interaction indicated that men exposed to stereotypical content made judgments that were more tolerant of a real-life instance of sexual harassment compared to controls. Long-term exposure to video game violence was correlated with greater tolerance of sexual harassment and greater rape myth acceptance. This data contributes to our understanding of mass media’s role in socialization that supports violence against women.

Keywords
Stereotypes; Media; Aggression; Sexism; Power; Sexual harassment; Rape myths; Violence against women

Even without buying the pdf, it's clear that the real sexism is coming from those who criticize video games based on social issues alone. They ignore the countless male characters slaughtered, tortured, incinerated, blown apart, and electrocuted en masse and exist only as XP resources. This researched is biased from the word "go"; are there other unbiased research pieces?

Meanwhile, some recommended reading (slightly related):

Three Dirty Academic Words Ending in -ity

Intellectual Bullying

Claire Lehmann on Bad Feminism

EDIT: Forgot the most important link - Richard Dawkins' Postmodernism Disrobed


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Mattastrophic wrote:
It sounds like what could be going on is that we have hard data to reject the Columbine-era argument of video games and violence, but data on sexism is a lot more difficult to collect.

And to muddy the waters even further, some like classify sexism (in video games) as revealing garb (only when on women), plot-related violence (again, only when it happens to women), the possibility of plot-related violence (yet again, only when it happens to women), exaggerated anatomy (sing it with me! only when it's applied to women), and so on (there's a trend here, I know it).


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Further information:

A detailed look at Dr. Sommers, her claims, and the data referenced.


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Artanthos wrote:
thejeff wrote:

Obvious realistic threat, assuming this was available to everyone: Criminals have access too. They can watch a target building to know when everyone, maybe including the neighbors have left and then break in. Without sitting obviously across the street.

Or a stalker, to know when his target is alone.

There are certain levels of information the public should never have access too.

And there are many levels of information that the government should never have access to.


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Just wanted to share this:

A sane feminist investigates the ongoing online moral panic surrounding video games and the gamers who buy them. The video's short (six and a half minutes) and doesn't play into any particular "side" of recent debates.


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MrTsFloatinghead wrote:
Necromancer wrote:
Accusing others of sophistry while using it to try and discredit opposing viewpoints.
A) Accusations of sophistry work a lot better if you actually attempt to demonstrate (as I did) where the error in logic is, why it's in error, and trace where that error may have stemmed from.

Lunch got in the way. Fortunately, the next two hours are all mine...

MrTsFloatinghead wrote:


The push back against this seems to be something akin to the tired sophistry about how political correctness stifles thought and communication - that if we spend so much time trying to sort out what the right words are and how our cultural history might be coloring our perspectives, we end up becoming a bunch of navel-gazing solipsists who are too afraid to peer out of our critical examinations of identity for fear of being labelled "racists".

Political correctness does stifle thought and communication as pluralistic ignorance takes hold. This is when the majority of a group's members privately reject a norm while assuming their peers accept said norm. In order to avoid a negative image, those members maintain norms that they personally reject. What worsens this is when popular personalities suffer from false-consensus bias thanks to pluralistic ignorance. Some examples. Hardly sophistry.

MrTsFloatingHead wrote:


At best, the argument goes, forcing all this self examination and reflection on people is an exhausting, tedious punishment for the crime of "being white".

This is cherry picking specific responses while suffering from pluralistic ignorance.

MrTsFloatingHead wrote:
Ironically, this very argument demonstrates exactly how "being white" is privileged. People get upset at the idea of having to confront their "race" and identity before speaking, because it seems exhausting, and demeaning, and a bit like a punishment, all without realizing that often "non-white" or "non-normal" people are forced to do that exact same kind of thinking every day.

And the fallacies continue with a fallacy of relative privation. Foisting guilt is a hostile tactic and using "privilege" in such a way always comes off as a hostile intent.

MrTsFloatingHead wrote:


"Normal" people don't often have to make calculations based on the lives and experiences of other people - they don't have to think, for example, about how they will be treated when the go into a store, or get stopped by the police. They don't have to ask the question "will my <identity> be a problem here?" because they can just assume it won't - after all, that's what being "normal" means, right? Is it possibly exhausting having to think about race/class/gender all the time? Maybe. Probably. I don't really know, because I don't have to do it, because I'm a white male, and that's what white privilege means.

This supports shoving members of a race into perpetual victimhood. They have every right to expect civil treatment and when someone denies them that that person is in the wrong--not everyone who shares a single characteristic with the denier. Those who discriminate are the issue, not those aren't an immediate target. People that behave this way will attack whoever is "weaker" in their eyes.

MrTsFloatingHead wrote:
It's also important to note that being told you are wrong about how you think about race isn't automatically an attempt to "shame" or "punish" people. Nobody likes being wrong, that's true. It can certainly be embarrassing to realize that you've been mistaken about something for a long time, but it's important to realize that being told that you should "check your privilege" is ultimately not about "shaming" any more than telling a child that six times six doesn't equal sixty six is. It's about trying to educate people to see the world differently, and understand that being "normal" is itself a privilege.

Argumentum ad populum. Bandwagon appeal combined authority appeal-by-proxy. This is the paragraph falls back into pluralistic ignorance in the assumption of a norm.


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Dale McCoy Jr wrote:

Latest Round of Race Votes:

[...]
Paizo Classes
ACG Classes 4
Anti-Paladin 2
Gunslinger 0
Ninja/Samurai 3

Put me down for a vote per each class. Especially the gunslinger.


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Any non-consumable items are rare as all hell and have definite ties to the campaign world's history. When our group has the time, I like to use the piecemeal armor variant system and provide full set bonuses tied to the armor's visual theme. If the campaign's low magic, then I have the players activate the magic weapons/armor they've found before applying its effects. No one's complained and some have even remembered the custom names I gave the weapons from previous years.


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Oceanshieldwolf wrote:

Can you define "Social justice warrior garbage and oppression olympics" for me please?

Then I'll decide if I think what you think they mean belongs in what I believe a rigorous and ethical gaming culture should have at a bare minimum.

Social justice warrior garbage most commonly translates to "equality for everyone...except straight white males. No they don't need a voice because of all the collective bad things I associate with that broad racial category." This logic is based around the need to feel "more moral" than others and it always requires stereotypes. Social justice warrior garbage uses equality as a shield to attack acceptable targets. If equality was truly an issue, such individuals would not be attacking anyone based on their sexual preferences, race, or gender.

Oppression olympics is seeing victimhood as a positive thing and a desirable status. Victims are often portrayed as perfect maimed souls incapable of wrong-doing and their status as human is elevated to saint. Couple this with the need to out-moral one's peers and a professional victim emerges and sees any criticism as hate or victim-shaming. Such behavior is damaging in the long term for the real victims and their state is not something anyone in their right mind would dive into.


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Slaunyeh wrote:

Uh. That's not the disgusting trend that is being exposed here. The disgusting trend being exposed is how a vocal minority (hopefully) will latch onto anything to spread disgusting lies and lash out at women, while hiding behind weak claims of "journalistic integrity".

I mean, they are literally discussing the pros and cons of harassing Zoe Quinn until she kills herself. (warning: not for the faint of heart.)

Are you sure that's the side you want to be on?

Did you watch the videos?

If there was any shred of dishonesty behind Eron's (Quinn's ex) claims, any one of the five guys mentioned would be filing a defamation suit. Hasn't happened. At this point, it doesn't matter who Quinn (or any other developer) was involved in; what matters is that the staff members involved, invested, or lightly connected tried to cover it up. I remember reading one of the articles and seeing the line "this is not something we should talk about". We shouldn't talk about corruption?

At this point, I don't care what happens involving Quinn and the men she slept with--I'm concerned about propaganda being injected into video game discussions. Legitimate concerns? Sure. Social justice warrior garbage and oppression olympics? There is no place for that when discussing video games. This "you are either with feminists or you're wrong" outlook is akin to religious extremism.

I just want to play video games without funding gender studies propaganda and politely worded hate speech.


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Some disgusting trends are steadily being exposed thanks to #gamergate raising awareness of corruption in video game journalism.

A plain-language examination of Zoe Quinn's lies, behavior, and her defenders.

A plain-language follow-up covering damage-control attempts, double standards, and the appalling lack of professional ethics.

Another plain-language follow-up covering sexual relationships between video game journalists, developers, and the (developer's) games they're reviewing.

"So it's just corruption in video games journalism, what does that have to do with your topic title?" Think about this: what if a group of academics decided to use social pressure and selective censorship to slowly change the culture and aesthetics surrounding a particular hobby (while the majority of enthusiasts didn't care for the interference). It would be wrong on so many levels. It would also be a conspiracy worth keeping an eye on.

This one is worth watching all the way to the end.

I really want to support independent titles, but now I've got to research them to death before I throw a dime at them.


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Orthos wrote:
Necromancer wrote:
Dale McCoy Jr wrote:
Necromancer wrote:

Caliban (either the Ravenloft version or the newer one)

Do you know if these have been reproduced anywhere beyond ravenloft? If not, is there a close monster/race?

Well, both are pretty different, but I like both uses of the term and its origin.

Ravenloft's caliban was basically an Igor race that used the half-orc stats. I can't give the specifics for the Paizo version, but I saw the entry in Tears at Bitter Manor when I was last at the bookstore (hadn't made up my mind whether to run--and buy--the pdf or not); basically Pathfinder's take on hagspawn.

*Why caliban? Because of my long time love of the hagspawn (male hag offspring) race and the massive appeal of an Igor race.

The one from Tears was from last year's Superstar, it was one of the submitted monsters. You can find it over on the Superstar forums.

Link to the entry--not sure if the final version was exactly the same

**Thanks, Demiurge 1138 for the cool creature.


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Dale McCoy Jr wrote:
Necromancer wrote:

Caliban (either the Ravenloft version or the newer one)

Do you know if these have been reproduced anywhere beyond ravenloft? If not, is there a close monster/race?

Well, both are pretty different, but I like both uses of the term and its origin.

Ravenloft's caliban was basically an Igor race that used the half-orc stats. I can't give the specifics for the Paizo version, but I saw the entry in Tears at Bitter Manor when I was last at the bookstore (hadn't made up my mind whether to run--and buy--the pdf or not); basically Pathfinder's take on hagspawn.

*Why caliban? Because of my long time love of the hagspawn (male hag offspring) race and the massive appeal of an Igor race.


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On a more serious note, I'll also cast votes for:


  • Caliban (either the Ravenloft version or the newer one)
  • Dark Folk
  • Derro
  • Morlocks
  • Sinspawn
  • Troglodytes


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MOAR CATFOLKSES!!!!11!!22!!!333456089854675981!!!

probably could've worded that better, but I haven't slept in an hour


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I've seen so many Drizzt, Legolas, and Gandalf clones, I would be entirely justified in just randomly weeping. Some players handle it well and roleplay their ripoff to the hilt, but even then it just reeks of LOLJUSTSAWTWOTOWERSANDIMABADASSNAO+5BOWPLZ!!!!!1111!!

Here's one of them: the Worst Gandalf Ever

D&D core, 3.0, 2004

When the DM told the player "no you can't have demigod powers and an outsider type", the player sulked until he finally rolled up an elf cleric with war and magic domains (and hated preparing heal spells). He named this character Arelrondalf...and I am not joking, not in the least. Most of the sessions were spent with him quoting LOTR films dialogue (just from the films, not the books) and insisting that his failed diplomacy attempts should work anyway.

The DM was an understanding, fair, clueless-in-a-good-way, and all around nice guy. He never caught on to any of Arelrondalf's passive aggressive crap, so the games were almost completely hilarious and the rest of us couldn't even laugh. Despite the ticking bomb, things went pretty well until Arelrondalf tried to dramatically suicide to save the rest of the party in one of the most surreal tabletop experiences I've had. I was running a human wizard/candle caster and the other players were a half-orc scythe-focused paladin and a dwarven something (started off as fighter and added thirty PrCs).

Jolly-but-oblivious-DM - The balor's hurting. It roars in frustration and swings at [Scythe-Master-Paladin]. rolls The attack was too high and you're able to duck. [Necro-the-Candle-Caster], it's your turn.

Me - speaks to the paladin and cleric players I call out to you guys, "The anchor is still holding, but the fiend's death is harmful to all. Get back so we can finish him!" knew that Arelrondalf had at least two flame strikes left I'll just ready a magic missile and wait for them to move clear.

Jolly-but-oblivious-DM - Now it's your turn, [Scythe-Master-Paladin].

Scythe-Master-Paladin - Can we use the pillars to shield us?

Jolly-but-oblivious-DM - You can get behind cover points on the map here and points again here to help lower the damage.

Scythe-Master-Paladin - Okay, I'll move to...here. waits

Jolly-but-oblivious-DM - rolls and shakes his head The balor misses and you're good to go. [Crazy-500-Class-Dwarf], you're still at five HP. You're waaaaay back here and it's your turn.

Crazy-500-Class-Dwarf - I'll take cure wounds potion for...rolls...nineteen, Alex! Then I'll move further away.

Jolly-but-oblivious-DM - And you're at twenty-four. Arelondalf, it's your turn.

Arelondalf-the-Neverheal - moves character token closer to balor but stops before entering threat zone I speak to the balor: "Go back to the shadows!" I cast--

Jolly-but-oblivious-DM - confused look Wait! Are you sure you want to get that close?

Arelondalf-the-Neverheal - nods and stares at the balor token "Go back to the shadows, demon!" raises hands

Me - slow motion facepalm We're not even on a bridge...

Arelondalf-the-Neverheal - still raising hands I call upon Pelor's wrath and invoke flame strike rolls for damage and raises hands again

Jolly-but-oblivious-DM - rolls and grins The balor fails its spell resi--

Arelondalf-the-Neverheal - literally bellows at the balor figurine YOOOUUUUU SHALL...NOT...PAAAAAAASSSSSSS

Jolly-but-oblivious-DM - raises eyebrows, but chuckles and continues Awesome, balor's dead. Arelondalf and [Scythe-Master-Paladin] roll reflex saves.

Scythe-Master-Paladin - rolls Sixteen! Nice.

Arelondalf-the-Neverheal - rolls with a stern look Three. raises head a bit and dramatically speaks As the blast burns me away, I turn to the others--

Jolly-but-oblivious-DM - Wait, you were at forty-six? Yeah, that puts you at neg-four. [Scythe-Master-Paladin], you've still got a couple of (lay on) hands left.

Scythe-Master-Paladin - nods I drop my scythe and run to Arelondalf. "Hang on, elf!"

Arelondalf-the-Neverheal - annoyed When the balor exploded, its remains still burned upon the floor. Arelondalf collapses into the flames and whispers "Fly you fools!" closes eyes and lowers head

Scythe-Master-Paladin - thoroughly confused You're just unconscious, man. You live.

Jolly-but-oblivious-DM - equally confused, starts looking through books to make sure he remembers the rules

Crazy-500-Class-Dwarf - cycles through a series of hilarious confused looks

Me - continues facepalm and tightens grip to keep from laughing

Jolly-but-oblivious-DM - shakes head and closes book There's no fiery surface left after a balor nuke; you're good.

Arelondalf-the-Neverheal - serious-business-face I fell so that you might live.

Scythe-Master-Paladin - But you're not dead! Lay on hands! Here, have some! reaches out

Crazy-500-Class-Dwarf - shrugs I'll just carry the silly elf back with us--we can spring for a raise dead, right?

Jolly-but-oblivious-DM - frustrated, raises voice He's not dead!

Arelondalf-the-Neverheal - still serious-business I cannot return...yet.

Jolly-but-oblivious-DM - realizes what's going on, gets angry, gets loud You're...not...dead!

Me - I pull out a mundane candle and light it over the elf. begins to sing Aaaamaaaazii-iiing Graaace! How sweeeet the sooounnnd, that saaaaaavvveeedddd...

Arelondalf-the-Neverheal - glares

The session broke down and we forcibly removed the player from Arelondalf. That character was never allowed to be reincarnated on a character sheet again.


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crashes into thread Summon Inferal-style to share new finds

Possible Shoanti with orcish heritage? Personally, this is too skinny for a proper half-orc, but I certainly see the appeal.

Possible tiefling ninja or slayer in, what looks like, Batman armor.

Possible older tiefling caster for cold settings with a slightly unusual look.


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Scintillae wrote:
Orthos wrote:
Lazarod Malloran wrote:
#ThrunesGoHome
"People called Thrune they go to the house"?
Oh, there could be a lot of fun with playing up the specific conjugations and declensions of Infernal...

mind wanders

Nearly every word acts as homograph and antonym, conveys at least five separate meanings dependent on the adjoining clause (may or may not be referenced at the time, but can be provided upon request), and is usually followed by several reference marks chosen from over four hundred varieties of oval shapes.

Most heterophones can act as synonyms if used in accordance with parameters laid forth in an adjacent clause. What constitutes as the "adjacent" clause is generally determined near the end of the Contract.

An Infernal thesaurus is usually mistaken for a set encyclopediæ. Infernal dictionaries are based around a central theme and no known complete dictionary exists as a stand-alone work. Information about Infernal grammar is uncommon. Many writers make the mistake of providing such a degree of instruction that threatens nascent contract authors; such writers often disappear for many...

taken by erinyes masquerading as nurses


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Todd Stewart wrote:
I've made my players cry. Not their characters, but the players. Do you really want me to write part of an AP?

nod-nod-nod-nod-nod-nod-nod-nod-nod-nod-nod-nod-nod-nod-nod-nod-nod-nod-nod -nod-nod-nod-nod-nod-nod-nod-nod-nod-nod-nod-nod-nod-nod-nod-nod-nod-nod-no d-nod-nod-nod-nod-nod-nod-nod-nod-nod-nod-nod


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carborundum wrote:
Todd Stewart wrote:
An outer planar AP as a giant love-letter to Planescape. :D
With daemons, and you write some/ all of it :-)

Take my money...

TAKE IIIIIIIITTTTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!! erratically flourishes bundle of cash around


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Arikiel wrote:
If you did awaken a house and it started taking class levels what would be a good class to focus on?

Suburbian with the Village archetype specifically for Commons Stride and the Pass Without Zoning SLA.


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I miss hagspawn...and fey'ri...and tanarukks...and daelkyr half-bloods...and chitines...

weeps openly


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Yo dawg, I heard you like roleplaying stuff, so we put some roleplaying stuff in your roleplaying stuff so you can roleplay when--

abruptly yanked offstage


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Shensen wrote:
...the Thrunies!

imagines the Inferno drifting to the docks with a haunting voice bellowing "HEY YOU GUUUUYYSSSSS" as the vessel draws near...


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Not entirely sure if he's supposed to be a tiefling, but I'm calling him one as long as I'm looking... :D


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Missed a few classes:

  • Erudite (variant psion, Complete Psionic)
  • Factotum (Dungeonscape)
  • Beguiler (Player's Handbook II)
  • Dragon Shaman (Player's Handbook II)
  • Duskblade (Player's Handbook II)
  • Knight (Player's Handbook II)
  • Astral Deva* (1-20 monster class, Savage Species)
  • Ghaele* (1-20 monster class, Savage Species)

*Included because I've been in games where the DM offered these alongside regular classes.


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Tacticslion wrote:
Arg! Now you've changed and I'll never know who you are! Dang it, Necromancer! :p :D

Well, I did have to dip into rogue to get that guy...involuntary stealth?


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Mikaze wrote:
Nitro-13 wrote:

Arcadia, So I can play my Ulfen/Skraeling based off Askeladd from Vinland Saga.

winces

Just a quick heads-up, not accusational or anything, but "skraeling" is actually a real world racial slur. It's really unfortunate that it found its way in the campaign setting and slipped into casual use. It's so archaic most people don't know how ugly the connotations behind it really are.

does a quick search of the forums for that word

gets depressed

Well since Paizo hasn't named the Arcadian natives, people can only use the terms readily available. Intent matters.

hopes to see a reduction in Golarion/Earth parallels in future products


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The new hobgoblins (despite the awful non-Bestiary artwork) are closer to what I would call goblin in my mind than the small-size imp-things currently labeled "goblin".

That said, I've seen a few examples of individual goblins that felt like goblins (the Hellknight-wannabe goblin in Westcrown immediately comes to mind). Varisian goblin tribes probably are insane by default, but the race tends to get more and more sane as you move away from Varisia.

I think goblins can be redeemed and I don't think the race is anymore "always" evil than your typical human.


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Would that make this a hymn then?


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Before I get into this, horror does not have to involve terror elements to be considered "true horror".

Askren wrote:
...because no matter how hard the DM works, you can't make Frankenstein scary.

Frankenstein's only dull if you know what to expect.

Offhand, I would handle the Frankenstein story like this:


  • begin with a local bogeyman, an urban myth
  • GM avoids dropping piles of corpses for the party to find and settles on rumors instead
  • casually have one or two NPCs remark that they normally do something else, but since someone hasn't shown up for work recently they have to pitch in
  • before letting the players think about missing townsfolk, provide a mundane distraction (solving a robbery, for instance) that leads to the party wandering the streets after dark or watching for the culprit to reveal themselves
  • during the above activity, carefully tease the party with a glimpse of the bogeyman in the distance (preferably wearing enough old sheets to mimic hooded robes), but just close enough to notice something unsettling
  • complicate the mundane concern and keep the players concerned about their current task
  • have a few missing citizens return to work; some are healthier than before and some are worse off
  • continue to drop rumors and truths surrounding the bogeyman without dwelling on it for too long
  • involve the overreacher (a chirurgeon alchemist) that created the bogeyman in resolving the mundane problem and mention a haunted look or slightly paranoid behavior
  • resolve the mundane problem and draw attention to an NPC's obvious-yet-repressed physical pain
  • further attention reveals that the NPC has had some unexplained surgery recently and can't account for several days of lost time
  • have the party bring the matter to the local alchemist-and-healer-and-bogeyman-creator; the alchemist either pays little attention and dismisses concerns or displays more fear and shock than the occasion warrants
  • bogeyman sighting after hours
  • another missing person returns home with issues similar to the previous NPC
  • party gets a second opinion from priest, mage, etc.
  • party learns that the NPC had some of their organs removed and replaced with inferior parts; investigation into NPCs formerly missing that appear healthier than before reveals an opposite situation (poor parts swapped for better ones)
  • party-bogeyman cat-and-mouse
  • party uncovers a bungalow that used to belong to the local alchemist; party discovers hidden entrance to underground laboratory
  • party finds preserved organs, bones, tissue, etc. and detailed journals describing how to better preserve human life
  • encounter with bogeyman still robed in rags and sheets
  • party realizes the bogeyman is wearing a child's preserved face
  • party encounters the local alchemist entering the laboratory
  • reveals (through diplomacy or violence) that their only child died young and they spent years working on ways to return them to life using parts from dead travelers, inadvertently created the bogeyman, realized the bogeyman was poorly made, and taught the creature how to borrow tissue from others to improve its anatomy
  • further investigation reveals that the bogeyman was abducting townsfolk suffering from health problems, kidnapped and released healthy citizens that were deemed "ungrateful for their anatomy", swapped healthy organs and tissue into unhealthy patients, and experimented on the "ungrateful" ones before patching them up and returning them home
  • party also finds an abnormal fetus-thing alive and floating inside a large glass container; a closer look reveals that the creature has been stitched together from stillborn parts

A new coat of paint works wonders.


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Nobody expects the Chelish Inquisition.


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The fact that this thread exists makes me happy. What doesn't make me happy is the significant dearth of non-D&D (AKA dragon-fiend), male tiefling artwork. stares expectantly at upcoming products

A tiefling iconic is almost a must at this point.


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Another thread regarding writer's block and the advice given.


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Pan wrote:
So in interest of taking this conversation in a new direction; what would a more balanced spread look like?

A mandate that every AP include something equivalent to "every pregen iconic in the group topless inside a bathhouse". We simply do not have enough illustrations involving downtime shenanigans.


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I keep hearing Occult Adventures and "hardback" in my head and I'm convinced I must be dreaming...

Everything I know about about Aleister Crowley, Dragon Rouge, the Lemegeton, Abramelin, magic squares, tarot readings, etc. fills my head and I'm recalling all the old related woodcuts I've seen over the years. If this book offers what I think it will, I'll finally be able draw players in for my Victorian-esque setting.

Don't let me wake up, Paizo!!!


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Kryssa Lightbinder wrote:
Golarion is: "One campaign to rule them all and in the darkness bind them."

I've never read a better comparison that describes it so well.


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Drejk wrote:
Mikaze wrote:
But I also wanna play aaaaAAAAHHHH
Don't know that... Is that from Advanced Class Guide?

A new advanced class - barbarian and monk parent classes, designed specifically to end martial-caster disparity, involves suppressing rage, and channels caster-envy into thirty-foot wide cone bursts.

I think it was a misprint, but I'm being silent out of charity.

the halfing iconic for aaaaAAAAHHHH isn't that good...


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Lamontius wrote:
can we be on house thrune's side y/n

also lurks for an answer


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Well, I have to admit I'm disappointed. My copy reads "Pathfinder Pathfinder Pathfinder: Advanced Bio-exorcist Guide" I read the logo section aloud and it summoned a hostile undead naga. Would it be possible to return just the naga and have a tiny humanoid shipped to me with the naga's face?


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[tangent]

Well, I feel a bit foolish. I've been teasing two of my players with ACG names of classes/archetypes and both separately asked me if the equivalent of "can 'steelhound' be stacked on the empiricist because any good detective needs guns".

._. so it's just me then...

[/tangent]


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I don't think it's been mentioned that arcanists can't qualify for arcane discoveries, so we're not quite in wizard replacement territory yet. As for sorcerers, actually look at what the eldritch scrapper does and what it's capable of doing before throwing in the towel.

people act like spontaneous casting isn't an advantage

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