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Gold Dragon

Nakteo's page

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber. 249 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists.


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Thug- Those're a lot of interesting ideas of how Harrigan might react to funding our about a hit on him. Honestly, he strikes me as a "Kill them all" kind of guy, but let it unfold how you wish. Make sure that Harrigan dies in some manner that will give the PC's a level of satisfaction at having solved a problem with outside the box thinking, be it having him murder through a score of assassins, surviving only by employing super paranoid precautions only to be brought down by a lucky blow (signifying that he really would have been a scary person to go head to head with), or by randomly dying in a humiliating fashion in front of his peers (letting them lol at his expense). I would try to avoid "he and his ship mysteriously vanished" as then they might be constantly thinking that he'll return later. How the learn of his death could be anything from a rumor in a tavern, to an ally learns of it, to a Red Mantis showing up to say "It is done.". Though that last gives them no details. But yeah, all kinds of fun to be had. I'd be excited to learn how this all goes down.


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Shaun wrote:
What about if Harrigan kills the Red Mantis assassin sent after him? That should give the PCs something to think about.

The PC's aren't likely to find out. If you're the greatest assassin organization in the world, you don't make a habit of letting your failures be known. On a related subject, the Red Mantis don't fail contracts. If a target kills an assassin, they send more assassins or a single much more skilled assassin. This may sound like a cannon fodder approach, but the least Red Mantis is a 6th level character, likely with years of training behind them. That character will lose a head on fight, but a coup de grace will kill just about anyone. In short, once the PC's hire a hit on Harrigan, he's a walking corpse, and soon a non-walking one.


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The biggest loss may be the entirety of the adventure and adversity written into the fifth book. You may need to come up with a whole new adventure to keep the game rolling. Or maybe they've pissed off some other captain who could play as a stand-in Harrigan for that book.


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You seem to have a pretty good grasp of the consequences. Honestly, depending on when it happens, a lot could change. If it takes place before the fifth book, then Harrigan won't be around to sabotage the Captains' feast through the Eel. Also he won't attack their home island, which unfortunately means they won't have any incentive to assemble a fleet to rebuff the coming assault, leaving them potentially woefully unprepared for the coming storm of the Chelish fleet. However, this can also have positive effects as well, without her Patsy, the Admiral might not have gotten all of the information she needed to successfully navigate the Eye, leading to significant losses on the voyage through. She should still have enough to cut her predetermined swath through the Shackles, but possibly much shower than in the book. At your discretion, the PC's could learn about the creeping onslaught after Drenchport falls (possibly through one of their Free Captain allies) allowing them to start assembling a fleet to meet the threat. Play up the desperation and race against time elements of the situation and track the days, if they take too long preparing, they might lose Port Peril and then the whole game changes.


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In that case, you seem to have things well in hand. :) I would make the price something more interesting than simply X-amount of gold/plunder. Like, "Go to this island and get this thing" to keep things moving and make it something that they have to devote time and effort to without the game becoming a grind.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Also, in the Shade's stat block under morale, it's missing the number of hit points that causes her to flee.


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I think I'd switch out some of the Battleguards' weaponry for smaller weapons in certain places instead of just copy pasting the stat block. Otherwise before long the party will literally be swimming in rocket launchers.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I would recommend against this. 25 points of plunder can be a lot, but something to keep in mind is that the Red Mantis, once paid, don't stop until their mark is dead. They even go so far as to kill their mark again should they be resurrected, they've been doing this for a while and they WILL succeed. What's more is that fighting Harrigan is the climax of the 5th book and a major plot point that draws them into the final arc of the adventure. Setting the price high may make it less likely that they'd choose this option, but I know of some groups who would jump on that, even if it meant grinding for three sessions. This option is basically "If you wish to skip a chunk of the plot, you should pay this toll."


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Am I the only one who's a bit leery of the possibility of having the potential for not one, but two NPC's running around with the party for a while?


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Vlad Koroboff wrote:
Nakteo wrote:

Actually... Nope, I don't get it, how does it do that again?

You dare bring SCIENCE into this?!

Also,other half of power...which is not required,actually,could be supplied by 16-level technomancer.

Care to explain that process? Or is it simply using Arcane Battery to funnel spells into the necessary charges?


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James Jacobs wrote:
A laboratory uses its charges up over the day. You basically only need to "charge" a laboratory once per day via a generator. Whether or not you do that as one lump sum (and thus leave the generators with higher yields for the rest of the day) or split up over the day... that's up to you.

So, just making sure I understand, the book saying that the Smoke Furnace is only sufficient to half power the Military Lab and PC's will need to supply the other half themselves is incorrect?


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Wait a minute, looking back over the rules in the Technology Guide... Generators produce their yield in charges per hour, but Labs only require the listed number of charges per day.

That might explain why pouring 20 charges into the Aurora's systems will allow it to power all the lights, the android foundry, the doors, the few functioning panels, and the Nanotech and Production labs (the two of which would draw a total of 200 charges per day should they both be in use), and would do all this for a month before being another 20 charges for the next month. Actually... Nope, I don't get it, how does it do that again?

But how does a lab drawing power from a reactor interact with it when the yield is lower than the daily requirement, but will easily meet this requirement over multiple hours?


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So, the potential Military Lab in area F31, how difficult would you say it should be to divert power from the Smoke Furnace, and is there a simple, cost effective manner to supply the remaining half of the power required?


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Actually, now that I think about it, depending be nature of the portals, one might be able to Teleport the furnace somewhere in one piece. Like back to the Aurora to power the labs there. Seems like a reasonable solution to the problem of powering said labs.


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Vlad Koroboff wrote:

Is Smoke Furnace portable in a sense that it can be disassembled and assembled somewhere else?

Same question about labs 1 and 6.
And,my usual:what's the damage of the android foundry and what's required to repair them?

I don't think the Smoke Furnace Can be reasonably disassembled and reassembled. Its weight isn't given, but owing to its power source being mini portals to the Elemental Plane of Fire, taking it apart could result in either exposing the heat of said plane, making transport of that particular part alone very difficult, or destabilizing the portals, causing them to shut and rendering the Furnace worthless.

Likewise the labs are full-on facilities made up of multiple built-in parts and machines not made to be removed from the lab, as should be evident by the labs needing power to be utilized.

As to the foundry....... Just. Say. No. Repairing it would give the PC's access to a machine that generates sentient beings. This, while potentially cool, could very easily derail the game in a number of different ways.

Such as...:
The anti-organic Android colony that would descend on Iadenveigh and murder it out of existence to get their hands on such a foundry. Or, ya know, the Technic League.


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leo1925 wrote:


@Nakteo
I wouldn't worry about feeblemind in this AP any more that i would worry in RotRL, and i wasn't really worried then because my players know that if their wizard start using nuclear weapons then the enemy wizards will also start using nuclear weapons, it's a M.A.D. thingy.

Unfortunately, I've played with people who don't consider such turnabout to be fair play and will complain loudly if it is employed. My solution is to just remove the obvious nuclear weapons before they can be used, and talk to players when and if they decide to invent new ones.


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Zaister wrote:

Colossal adamantine cube up there got me thinking ... yeah right.

Let's assume adamantine weights about the same as steel, since armor and weapon weights are not adjusted when made of adamantium, A Colossal cube would be 30 ft. by 30 ft. by 30 ft. for a total of 27,000 cu.ft., which is 46,656,000 cu.in. A cubic inch of steel weighs approximately 0.3 lbs, so let's assume the same for adamantine. So, the Colossal cube has a weight of about 14 million pounds.

At 300 gp per pound of adamantine, the cost for your cube is a whopping 4.2 billion gp! About 5,000 PCs of 20th level would have to pool their level-appropriate resources to finance this thing.

Good luck!

Maybe they visited the Elemental Plane of Adamantine. Or perhaps it's simply a completely unorthodox casting of Summon Greater Adamantine Cube.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Also, am I the only one who thinks that certain spells should be restricted from this AP? Specifically spells like Disable Construct and Feeblemind. Both are spells that would allow PC's to functionally one-shot a lot of otherwise scary enemies in the adventure. (Disable Construct against robots, Feeblemind for the Technic League.) And they're not simply save or lose, they're both "roll really high on the die or lose." I bring this up in the message board for Lords of Rust because Disable Construct is a spell that has a half-decent chance of allowing the party to just murder Hellion (for GM's who don't like to fudge the dice).

For the record:
Yes, I am aware that Hellion has Mythic Iron Will and would roll twice.


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Acolyte of Mushu wrote:
I know there are no actual bonuses for skinning the mutant manticore and wearing its hide, but what would be a cool, minor flavor bonus for my PCs that could be added to the game without messing with mechanics? Also, any flavor repercussions, considering the manticore is mutant and irradiated.

Every day, save vs. Low radiation. ;p


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Very very nice laser pistol. Still super old.


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Non-crazy Chaotic Evil you ask? Pathfinder. The Technic League. Very calculating, very intelligent, very chaotic, very evil. The alignment system says this organization should have imploded centuries ago, yet it remains because despite the evil and chaotic nature of its members they aren't crazy, they understand that patience and calculation can lead to advancement in the organization's ranks (usually by means of murdering someone and taking their stuff/position). Sounds kinda LE but they are labeled as CE, the organization is governed by chaos and evil, but in a cunning and clever fashion, anyone exhibiting stereotypical CE crazies has already been culled because they're likely to bring the League crashing down and its members' power base along with it.


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Train everyone to be 20th level wizards.


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James Jacobs wrote:
Nakteo wrote:

Also, one more thing...

** spoiler omitted **

Those got cut, since they were basically way too expensive an item for her to have (they were also too similar to boots of teleportation). Then the mention of them in her gear kept apparently slipping through the editorial cracks.

So just ignore completely. Got it. :)


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Pendagast wrote:
Nakteo wrote:

Also, one more thing...

** spoiler omitted **

you might have to call palladium books and ask them?

:)

Seriously? o.o


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Also, one more thing...

Spoiler:
Ilarris Zeleshi has a pair of Rift Boots. I can't seem to find them anywhere, where are they statted?


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Kay, well I guess I'll kick this one off with...

How the bloody hell is Iadenveigh pronounced???


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So, I have a couple questions about the Rhu-Chalik.
1. Its Project Terror ability causes the subject to become frightened but doesn't state a duration, how long would be fair for that?

2. Do sleeping characters get will saves to resist and would failing a save against Project Terror wake them up?

3. How close does it have to be for it to use Void Transmission?


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Vlad Koroboff wrote:

A few questions about ** spoiler omitted **

Also,how many seconds players will have before entire Technic League performs orbital drop on them after that thing emerges?

Spoiler:
Probably upwards of around 10,000+ charges, or something equally astronomical. It would probably have both a base land speed and burrow speed of around 100ish feet, with a max of 260 (30 mph). A reactor would be extremely unlikely because then Hellion would probably seek to fix and refuel it instead of charging its power cells. And depending on whether or not it remained submerged the whole time, the Technic League might never know about it until it hit the side of Silvermount. At which point it would probably be destroyed as the AP suggests that Hellion is drastically underestimating Silvermount's strength.

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So, looking at Hellion's statblock, his initiative seems a little small. +6/-14 is accurate for Improved Initiative and 14 Int (Aggregate AIs still use Int instead of Dex), but it has Mythic Improved Initiative, so shouldn't it add its Mythic Tier of 4 to its initiative, making it +10/-10?


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Neongelion wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Neongelion wrote:

So my plan for revealing Hellion is gonna be a bit different than in the book. Instead of a demonic visage on the monitors, Hellion takes the form of a dragon. This, I think, is a much more convincing illusion, both from a metagame perspective and in-game: dragons have gigantic egos, after all.

However, I'm still also going to subtly imply that maybe it's not a dragon, but an upstart spellcaster from the Technic League who is organizing an army, excavating some terrible weapon, and marching on Starfall to mount a major expedition to Silver Mount, where they will get an even bigger, badder weapon. Since at least two of my players have had nasty run-ins with the League before, I think this is going to make perfect sense to them.

That, or to really throw the players off: a cyberdragon. If that doesn't instill some fear into them, I don't know what will. They'd only be slightly less terrified when they realize that the cyberdragon is in fact a mythic robot with spellcasting abilities.

Sounds good... but...

** spoiler omitted **

That definitely does put things in perspective. Hmm....Ill have to think about this now.

Oh oh oh! I have a solution!

Spoiler:
Make Hellion look like a twisted vicious evil-looking chromatic dragon of indeterminate color. (i.e. It could be a red dragon with scales nearly fully blackened by scorch marks to make it perhaps a black dragon.) Meanwhile, Unity portrays itself as a proud majestic shimmering metallic dragon composed of all seven skymetals (and perhaps a few more). Play up Hellion's horrific appearance and, when the time comes, Unity's beatific one.


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**I wonder if someone will ever compile this all into a story. All (at the time of this post) 8,318 posts of it.**


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and unbridled fury


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This feat looks like a job.....for the FAQ!


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boring7 wrote:

I don't understand what the argument is.

The argument was essentially Driver saying that there's nothing wrong with having a party with a PC that is massively bigger than the rest of the party combined in it. But the argument is over. For now...


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DM. wrote:
Nakteo wrote:

*Spoken seriously*

"Roight! So we're in town for the next week? Imma spend tha' entire week spreadin' me seed around to all the women in town! How many do I impregnate?"
Roll charisma.

"But I don't have Charisma! Why're you hindering my character's story like that?!?! C'mon man, that's Bull****!!"

But I do agree.


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*Spoken seriously*
"Roight! So we're in town for the next week? Imma spend tha' entire week spreadin' me seed around to all the women in town! How many do I impregnate?"

~Former PC in a game of mine.


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Claxon wrote:

Don't give them any screen time for it. If they want to sleep around fine, whatever. But as a GM or player I wouldn't be interested in hearing the other player role play out their sexual fantasies. As long as it isn't otherwise negatively impacting game play just let it happen and ignore it otherwise.

If you don't let the player get any screen time with it they will eventually just stop wasting their breath on it.

+1


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Curses! He left before I could give my opinion. Oh well, it's at least somewhat relevant still...

I was once in a game (Godlike with GM augments) where I deliberately built a character to have a massive damage output. My character was designed to hit anything ever and if he hit it it turned into a fine red mist. I threw most of everything I had at that one singular goal, my defense didn't suffer, but my utility sure did, but that's fine, it's the character I wanted to play.

Sound cool? WELL...

There was another player in the party who rapidly outdid me and the rest of the group in 90% of all possible areas, including damage, defense, and utility. He had built a character that was so powerful that he massively outclassed me in every area that I had built my character to be amazing in.

The GM didn't mind.

Because of him, and my hyper-focused build, I very quickly stopped being relevant to anything in the game except as the guy who could maybe annoy enemies in combat (instead of, ya know, killing them) as did most other people in the group when combat happened.

So, speaking as someone who was a "weak" party member in that group, it is NOT fun to be lower level or power level than another PC. (Blah blah blah different classes are good at different things and that's dandy.) So yeah, I totally think that the beefy PC the OP's talking about should either be nerfed (with a civil conversation explaining why it should happen) or the other party members should be buffed to his power level. Honestly, I'm really interested in seeing this character because it sounds ridonkulus.


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"Hmmmmm, I stab and I stab and I stab, but I just can't seem to strike those delicious-looking swimmy things. But wait!" Thought the cunning native, "Maybe if I wade out into .5 inches of water, then maybe I can strike at all the swimmies no problem. Including those lurking at the bottom of this three-foot underwater dropoff." And he lived happily ever after.

I think Abraham Spalding has resolved this pretty well. To me it seems pretty obvious how the rules work: full submersion = no targeting by anything that requires an attack roll or that involves fire. So spells like Magic Missile, Lightning Bolt, Sleep, Waves of Exhaustion, Phantasmal Killer, Hold Monster, Black Tentacles (targeted on the river/lake/whatever-bed), and Heat Metal will all work just fine.

However, as my previous post and story above show, this rule can be made very very silly. Why can't I shoot someone who is lurking a half inch underwater unless I put my feet into the same body of water as you so as to avoid being a "land-bound" creature? If I'm kneeling next to a lake, and you're 1.2 feet away, lurking .3 inches below the surface, why can't I Shocking Grasp you? This whole rule sounds like it should grant a form of improved concealment (allowing targeting with a miss chance) instead of total cover that says I just can't hit you at all ever.


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So.....spear-fishing from the shore is impossible?


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BigNorseWolf wrote:
Split the difference and toss a stabalize.

What if that would kill them too?


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Hobgoblin Shogun wrote:
Nakteo wrote:

Also, anyone else think that flooding the room with radiation is kinda overkill? Considering that in order to fix the reactor and restart the "Torch," it will require someone to attack the transmitter attached to the reactor for several rounds (Hardness 15, 60 hit points) taking 2d6 electricity every time it takes damage (DC 15 reflex negates), or spend TEN MINUTES tinkering with it to deactivate it with a Disable Device check (DC 30 or 20 if you read the Androffan instruction manual next to it). My math says that even with the radiation being DC 13, the con drain will kill any PC working on this long before they succeed. Unless they use the Panic Suit, but that'll only protect one PC.

I'd personally limit its filling the room to a set time period, (between a few rounds and a minute) before a safety protocol walls off the damaged section of the reactor to maintain containment.

Are you assuming they do all this in combat? I assume they'd just take down Meyanda and THEN do the DD check.

That said, I still want a good line of thinking for redeeming Meyanda. The Book says its possible. And I think killing her would be wasting a HUGE opportunity. But the Book also says she's a fanatic. Soooooo, I'm stuck.

I'm assuming they deal with Meyanda first and then figure out fixing Torch. But Meyanda's near-death act is to cover the room in radiation that will kill most anyone of mid-level or lower pretty quickly. (Including Meyanda if you think about it. Then again, she was trying to make the reactor explode so...) Obviously, if you have the panic suit, it should go to the person who can either beat the transmitter into the ground or shut it down. If not, there's really no way you're shutting that thing down without losing PC's to either con drain or electricity damage.


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@Crustypeanut
Oh yeah, (Derp!) the Panic Suit give you ER 5 everything-but-Sonic. That would make smashing the transmitter a lot easier. Yeah, I'd just fudge that glitch so it doesn't become "2% chance that the PC's can't complete this objective." I'd think the barrels of gunpowder idea could potentially make the problem worse by further damaging the reactor, not a bad direction to take, though. I like the summons idea, though it might take a few days depending on the party's summoning ability.

I wonder, does anyone else think that the con drain is a little harsh at that level? Would it be reasonable that the town's healer eats the cost of a few Restoration spells to heal the PC's in gratitude, or would you make them pay for it?

@GM 8574
Honestly, the book is so silent on the activities in Silverdisk Hall, I'd say that if you think your players would get a kick out of it, go nuts! :)


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Also, anyone else think that flooding the room with radiation is kinda overkill? Considering that in order to fix the reactor and restart the "Torch," it will require someone to attack the transmitter attached to the reactor for several rounds (Hardness 15, 60 hit points) taking 2d6 electricity every time it takes damage (DC 15 reflex negates), or spend TEN MINUTES tinkering with it to deactivate it with a Disable Device check (DC 30 or 20 if you read the Androffan instruction manual next to it). My math says that even with the radiation being DC 13, the con drain will kill any PC working on this long before they succeed. Unless they use the Panic Suit, but that'll only protect one PC.

I'd personally limit its filling the room to a set time period, (between a few rounds and a minute) before a safety protocol walls off the damaged section of the reactor to maintain containment.


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Hobgoblin Shogun wrote:
Silverdisk Hall seems A) Boring and B) Solely a distraction.

On one hand, I agree. But I've gamed with players who would jump all over the chance to gamble at a casino, especially one that straight up Gives them money to gamble with. And I wouldn't want to sour that feeling for them by just writing it off as "You play games, you win/lose this much. Do you want to keep playing?" If players show an interest in it, I'd want it to be fun and exciting for them, though preferably in a way that is streamlined so the players who have no interest in doing so don't sit twiddling their thumbs in the meantime.

@leo1925
Neat spell, thank you. How did I miss that one?


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GM 8574 wrote:
What sorts of games of chance are folks using for Silverdisk Hall? I'm trying to think something up that's a little less typical than poker or Twentybone, and wanted to see what y'all had in mind. Thanks!

You beat me to the punch on that one. I've been trying to figure out easy ways for the players to simulate gambling that won't bog down the game if only a couple players want to do so.

Also, how long would y'all say it should take for the smith to make a masterwork weapon (per PC) in exchange for returning the body of Whatshisface? My math using the crafting rules says a 5th level Expert (smith's level unstated) super specked for crafting would take around 5 weeks per weapon. Seems kinda unviable to me. What do you think would be acceptible?


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Maybe try Acid Spash on the hinges...


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Utilizing item creation rules:

Assuming "Command word" activation (SL x CL x 1800) the item would cost 5400Gp before any other abilities.

If "Use-activated or continuous" (SL x CL x 2000) it would cost 6000Gp.

Seems the whole item may be a glitch...


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Kain Darkwind wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
What's the point of stats where you can't kill those things without GM fiat anyway?

At a certain point, you need DM fiat for anything. If you want to walk to the next town, even if the DM doesn't outright deny you, they could easily make you play through 30 miles of walking. If you want to kill Meepo the kobold, he can have Meepo pop up at max ranged weapon range, fire a single arrow (natural 20 of course, possibly a called shot) and run away. Gets out of sight, you can't find him. Until the next time he pops up to hit you.

So if you can trust your DM to allow you to get to the next town or kill a kobold, it's just a small step from there to trust them to allow you to complete whatever quest you need. I'm not sure if the fiat you see in this statblock is from 'special circumstances' (though that could be as simple as 'It's Ragnarok/All Hallow's Eve/Titanomachy and gods can die) or if it is in the high CR, requiring at least some level of advancement past the level 20/mythic 10 that the game allows, but either way it shouldn't be that insurmountable of an obstacle.

So......Everything a GM does is a "GM fiat?" The GM's job is to fiat you along through their story/game? The GM allowing you to play your character is fiat? Under the Strictest definition, this might fall under "GM fiat," but no one ever uses it that way.

I think what Gorbacz is getting at here is that despite the fact that the deities have stats, they still CAN'T be killed by PC's unless the GM makes an addition or change to the rules, a fiat if you will, to allow the PC's to do so. And anyhow, if you look at those stats, they're basically designed to say "Can do most anything at all super easily" just like an unstatted deity would.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

One more thing to look at: The Force Field stat block says that it uses one charge per minute, but the text box says one charge per round. Which is the typo?

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