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Are there any feats that are the exact same as before? There are some, but it's not the norm. We're going to test out these newer feats, and perhaps if people want the older ones as well, we'll just take the revamped versions and make them into different feats. One thing though, weapon focus is sweet now.
I'm sorry if I missed it, but was there any info on your intentions about feats that scale per level? I really recommend that you take a look at New Paths Expanded by Kobold Press. Both classes and feats presented there are excellent and I really like their approach to scalable feats, as well as what they did with Leadership. Far more feats scale than they did previously, and wherever it would make sense, we have included scaling. Some feats were just very 'immediate benefit' that couldn't really scale due to being powerful enough at base or providing some new action-like benefit that can't really scale. What I can say is prereqs are far less stringent in this system, leading to far more variety in build. Generally, if you don't NEED a few for a second one to work (like how mechanically you don't need point blank shot to use precise shot), it won't be a prerequisite. Because of this, we're hoping that we'll see more build variety by unshackling people from long feat chains. To this, spring attack in this system has no feat prereqs.
I've heard N. Jolly is a scurrilous rapscallion and a no good brigand.Me too. This is accurate.
Honestly, the only tips I can give are just in my guide. I'm at the moment helping to design an entirely new version of 3.5 known as Corefinder, so my entire mental sphere is basically in Corefinder mode. I am mucking around with a new monk revamp though, so that's fun.
Traits and FCBs are in rough territory due to not being as needed. I'd say we're more likely to keep traits than FCBs, but nothing's set in stone yet. I'm a fan of max HP per level myself, so I'll probably push for that. Yeah, they almost certainly will. That's also something we're considering. Considering ninja is a 4th level caster with cantrips, it's likely.
Well I can tell you that feats to not take AOOs for combat maneuvers as well as power attack/deadly aim/combat expertise aren't around anymore. There's a few more I can't remember off the top of my head.
So this is complicated, because for one person 'fun' is landing a first round color spray and instantly winning, while for others the more drawn out encounter is more fun. Ideally, we're going to try to shut down 'I win' buttons while keeping magic interesting and unique.
If we do something with a dragon race, we have our own draconic race to use since you can't really just do dragonborn You've literally just listed what LG's draconic race does, the wrymtouched. It's a buildable race that can have tons of different draconic features and be as draconic as you want it while having heritage ranging from chromatic, to linnorm and all sorts of other things.
Do you plan to use some of Pf 3pp classes or other products? For instance, there's Kobold Press class called Theurg, that works really great. What about some fan favorites that aren't a part of PF due to Paizo's desire not to ruffle feathers, such as Warlock or Artificer - or Warforged on the racial side of things? So we are looking through other 3p stuff, but let me say that Warlock (as of the 3.5 design) is a strong contender to make it into the core book. For our first book, CF: Fantasy, we probably won't go into a construct race, but that's absolutely an option for CF: Advanced fantasy, which is where an artificer has been heavily discussed.
If we do something with a dragon race, we have our own draconic race to use since you can't really just do dragonborn. Gadgetry is also more of an advanced fantasy book sort of class, but it's absolutely on the table. After a lot of discussion, we'll probably revamping every class. This is effectively a new system, as we're using it as a chassis for all sorts of other themes, such as sci fi, supers, modern, etc. And yeah, class compilation is still coming out regardless of Corefinder. We just need to finish off I believe...2 more classes to have all the CRB ones.
Hey all, N. Jolly here again! So I'm gonna be honest and admit I didn't particularly keep up with the thread because I'm the community manager over at the devcord and one of the devs who often jumps on the soapbox as stated earlier. So a lot of us are on the discord, and I get some of y'all don't like it, and that's fine. I will try to pop over here from time to time in order to check on discussion here (didn't know it was still going on, so that's why I didn't come over. Also, I don't really use the paizo boards anymore since I have my own communities over on discord that I enjoy more). Maybe it's just the pandemic talking, but a more immediate form of communication just feels better to me right now. I have been reading over things though, checking out your concerns, and let me tell you when we go into playtest we're going to be splitting channels to talk about individual things in a more granular fashion. Right now though, we're getting more general ideas while we're putting things together. But hey, since I'm here, if there's anything ya wanna ask specifically, lay it on me.
Hey all, got a quick preview to drop for y'all, this is going to be for the legendary ninja class. This is only a preview of some of the material of the class, but we are taking feedback on what is being shown, so feel free to comment on the doc or in the thread. And feel free to add yourself as a playtester. The legendary ninja is a class that takes some major departures from the base class including granting 4th level spellcasting that starts from 1st level and comes with cantrips among other unique concepts. This preview will only be for a few days, so make sure to check it out while it's up! This document actually involves the introduction of quite a few new authors, so please be kind.
The Spanish version of PF calls the Ranger "Explorer". It might be the word you are looking for your class. While a cool name, we've found that people are very attached to names, so changing names probably won't happen. We are keeping track of trends though in the game to see which ideas and classes to focus on. For example, y'all love alchemists.
I'm curious to how cantrips will be handled. Will cantrips be handled like in Pathfinder or will Corefinder Fantasy have cantrips that scale by level like in PF2e or 5e? Let me tell you that cantrips have been getting discussed, and while we have nothing concrete at the moment, we are aware of the value of scaling cantrips.
To add to what Jason is saying, the idea here is to allow for a piecemeal system that allows you to only buy what you need rather than forcing in other stuff where it's not needed. This also gives us a lot more focus on what we need to do in each book, which is super helpful.
So are there Legendary versions of all the Pathfinder classes? Any differences with the legendary version of the Sorcerer? Shifter? There's L. versions of a few classes. I myself penned Kineticist, Gunslinger, Shifter, Cavalier, and Alchemist. I'm working on Wizard as we speak. Sorcerer is still cooking right now, but if you're on the LG discord, you could ask about it there. Legendary versions were for classes that were considered badly designed. I think only Kineticist and Shifter got the treatment. This is half true; I really like the alchemist as a class, but I think the base chassis had issues that needed to be done from the ground up, so I worked on legendary alchemist to make the kind of class that I thought people who loved it deserved.
Maybe we should just have both? I don't mean an overlapping system, I mean have ABP in the core book and make it clear it's just as legitimate an option as bonus-granting items. So to touch on all of this, our decision was never to just lift ABP, there was always changes planned. The main thing we want to do is remove 'math items', like things that just increase numbers. If an item's sole purpose was to fix the math, we want to remove that so when players receive magic items, they're always unique. To me, in the contest of a +1 sword vs. a sword that can turn water into acid with a poison effect to it, I know which one seems more interesting. There's also the idea that magic in a setting can't permanently make someone stronger without physically altering them (like permanent polymorph spells). A lot of people's perception of magic is different than others, so I don't think a lack of magic that permanently increase's someone's abilities is that odd myself.
I would be interested if it is compatible with Spheres of Power / Might. Hey, Spheres of Might developer here. While we can't say it'll immediately be compatible, we're absolutely willing to work with the DDS team on a conversion doc. I always enjoyed magic items. It's one of the most fun parts of the game for me. I played Giantslayer using advanced bonus progression and it kind of took a lot of the fun out of the game. Interesting, can I ask what about the ABP made things less fun? It's going to be impossible to meet everyone's expectations, because they will conflict. My expectation is that Corefinder will be as different/improved as possible, while retaining as much backwards compatibility as possible. That's basically our end goal. We're going to do as much as we can to maintain what worked and change what didn't. PF wasn't everyone's cup of tea from 3.5, so we know we won't meet certain people's expectations. So at the end of the day, we've gotta do what we think works.
So the issue with items like this is how they influence the math.PF has issues with the math requiring these items, the math being designed with them in mind. It stifles creativity in item design since you can't make an item that conflicts with those, and they're among the most boring magic items you can get. We can give them other effects, but the only compromise I could see is just making all of these bonuses inherent and just give different items other unique things they can do. We could just make them tattoos or something like that, so you can still 'get stronger', but don't have the mechanical baggage of it.
Along the same lines, yeah. The goal will be to make the math not need to require those items. If we do that through APG or other such things, we'll make sure it all works out. And I've always had a personal rule about things like that; if an ability is so good that everyone takes it, you either have to make it a part of the base class or nerf it. We won't be big on having 'feat taxes' or things like that, or leaving out parts of the class that should have always been in there (like infusion for alchemist).
Yeah, removing the treadmill of items was at the heart of what we wanted to do; those items don't help the game and actively diminish the slots needed for those items.
Please let me be a part of this. You've written for LG before, haven't you? Join the discord, ping me, and we'll talk. And for non business related stuff:
So for classes, what we're looking at is making sure every class had its own type of thematic utility. That you're not excluded from social moments because you mainly swing a sword. While we want to do things to make classes more interesting (ala legendary class redesigns), our main focus is on making sure the game is playable for everyone at all times. The above could be considered one, but we are looking at the best way to limit the 'need' of magical items. We're absolutely working on making magic special again. We don't have any specific spells we can give solid answers on at the moment (I'm a class guy myself, so that's not in my wheelhouse), but once we do, I'll get back to you.
N. Jolly, what are the other two projects? Here's the first: PROJECT #1: Legendary Classes Compendium - This is taking the existing Legendary Classes books that LG has published over the past 6 years or so, refining with some editing and reorganization, and publishing as compiled class book supplements for the existing Pathfinder RPG. Because the classes have been completed in no particular order, just whatever people were interested in doing, we've got all the martial classes done but not all the magical ones. We probably will compile this in two volumes, one the LCC: Martial (which we can start the editing and compilation process on now) and one LCC: Magical, which we can do once we finish Legendary Classes books for Bards, Clerics (almost finished), Druids (we have a villain book for druids), Sorcerers, and Wizards (I've got a decent start on this but much left to go). And the second, much bigger one: PROJECT #3: NEWFINDER - This is where we go all the way down the rabbit hole with Alice and deconstruct Pathfinder and rebuild it as something new. It will carry echoes of Pathfinder in its DNA and in its conceptual and naming conventions, but all sacred cows are on the table for abolition and reconstruction, from BAB to alignment to classes, skills, feats, spells, and all the rest. Backwards compatibility is no longer a consideration. This game is entirely forward-thinking, not backwards-looking. Newfinder is a placeholder name to indicate that this is the place for ideas that push off the edge of what makes Pathfinder feel like Pathfinder. We may come up with a new and better name later, but that'll do as well as any for now.
Hey, for those of you who want to ask questions directly about Corefinder, we got a thread now. So yeah, go here for corefinder stuff or check out the discord.
Welcome all, N. Jolly here to introduce a new project from the Legendary Games team. Here's what Jason Nelson, the publisher, has to say on it:
This project is going to be to Pathfinder what Pathfinder was to 3.5, revised by the best of the third party scene. Considering the pedigree of our developers and designers, I can promise that this is going to be the definitive version of the game, and the base rules will be made with lots of ideas and concepts that have helped make Pathfinder great in mind. For those who would like to stay in the loop directly, there's also the Legendary Games Discord, a place where you can speak with the designers directly about this new project, make suggestions, and use that one emote I have of myself!
Is Corefinder "free-gender"? Then it's not only for medieval fantasy, but also sci-fi, lovecratian pulp or gothic horror, is it? Corefinder will not charge you for genders, take as many as you want, free of charge. And yes, it'll be genre free too. We'll be doing supplements to fill out things that are only relevant for different genres, but the base product is meant to be the starting block for all kinds of adventures, with other supplements for other types of game.s
Has anybody used the third-party legendary elements? I like the concept of light as an element.I'm not tech savvy, but link pleaze. I love light as an element! Like distinction tbough, not when its lumped in with sun or positive energy. I personally don't mind pairing it with electricity, but I still prefer it have its own identity. I've used a few, gotta say I'm a big light and viscera fan.
N.Jolly, is there a place where you're providing updates about this project or otherwise discussing it? Either on the Paizo forums or outside? I've very curious to hear what direction Legendary Games takes it. Well, there is the Legendary Games discord. I'd have to ping Jason about if there's an FB group or something along those lines.
Sounds really neat, though as this thread proved, what's considered "the very best of Pathfinder 1E" is highly subjective even among fans of the edition. There's definitely room to make things clear and functional, but when it comes to balance decisions there's a full spectrum of opinions about what needs to be changed.Not to mention that the core might not have everything needed for a fantasy experience, which is what I assume most people immediately want from a cleaned-up Pathfinder. You're quite right that the core may not have everything. Lucky for y'all, I have a tendency to write too much when it comes to stuff like that, and if we find we're missing things, we're absolutely willing to go back in and fix what we have until it's the best it can be.
So y'all hear about Legendary Games doing this with the codename Corefinder?I had not, but I'm interested to see what they do with it. I tried looking for more information, but couldn't find anything official. There were just claims it was mentioned in a Discord. Well, let me go grab the info for it:
Been a while since I've done one of these, but I should talk about how I went into the 2e guide. I'm sure some of you will say "But you haven't even played it yet N., how could you make a guide?" For those of you who think that, I'll have you know that I had the 2e files in advance for things like this. As for other fears, like that I won't be doing public guides and that all guides like this will be private, I have good news for you there as well. While there will be these published guides, we will also be releasing the google doc guides just like always (publicly), although we're doing a patreon to help support production and upkeep of them. That means ideally we'll be supporting them as new content comes out and be able to be compensated for keeping up with newer content, as a lot of guide writers now are also doing other projects, and this allows us to stay afloat while keeping up with the content that we want to provide to you all. As for the guide itself, there was a lot that changed about this class, and I found it interesting how 2e went with what's easily my favorite class. The change to purely non-magical was not what I was expecting, but at the end, I wasn't expecting them to update extracts. In their place, the new alchemist focuses on either healing, bombing, or mutagens; and each has enough options to give reason to pick any of these. Me personally, I'd say I'm a big fan of bombing, but that's just me. The guide itself is set up just like all my others, covering the basics with the same tongue in cheek humor that you all hopefully enjoy (well I enjoy it, and that's what matters to me), as well as commentary on options and ideas to help out with new ideas and concepts. Remember, guides like mine are intended to help people make their ideal characters, not simply 'break the game' as it were. There are options for race, feats, backgrounds, and everything else needed to build a character the way you want it made. And of course, when the public guides go live, I'll be updating them with new content as it comes out. The initial guides like these are planned to be for core rulebook builds, as plenty of GMs will only allow you limited resources, and I'd rather these guides be as viable as possible for everyone. Thanks a lot, and look forward to my next few guides!
New elements? As this contains a compilation of both 1st and 3rd party content, the additional elements from the Kineticists of Porphyra series (time, sound, light, poison and viscera), the element from Legendary Kineticists (mind), and the element from Magitech Archetypes (Machine), are all available in this collection. Each one has a bevy of talents to make sure it has plenty of options to match any of the 1p offerings, each which differentiate themselves in unique ways. Light plays around with illusions, sound works with manipulating perception, time allows for some action manipulation, poison is great at debuffing, viscera is perfect for natural attack builds, mind is another good debuffer with unique mechanics, and machine works for more futuristic games, allowing the kineticist to play in more of a starfinder-like setting.
I got my copy the day it came out, and let me tell you, Onxy did SO MUCH to try and make the patchwork chimera of content from these books flow together seamlessly. A lot of this content was never intended to work together (by word of god), and yet he made the effort to make sure that it would work together. Even if the new elements don't interest you, the additions to the old ones are definitely worth checking out, as they all thematically expand the concepts within. I feel like you'll get a much larger scope of what is possible with each element due to the care given to everything here. The Paizo and 3p material has been given special care to work together and to balance to the same standard to make sure that you can play the original content from the class's creator and Paizo's wonderful staff along with the more out there and risky content from the 3p publishers who wanted to give the class more options that wouldn't have been possible otherwise. For those expecting a dev post, don't. This is Onyx's book, and I ain't here to do anything but give opinions of it.
I'd be deeply ashamed if the class didn't innately include Infusion. Thank you everyone for participating in the playtest; we have a lot of other content that we'd have loved to have shown off, but the doc was too large and we wanted to hold some of it back for the full release. The response to the class has been largely positive, and we've made a lot of changes based on your feedback. We can't wait for the full release, with such new entries as the "Azoth" character template, the City of Silver Sands, and our iconic written by new author and member of The Insiderz, Mansoor Al-Shehail!
We're going to be ending the playtest in the next few days, as this was always intended as a shorter display of the class as well as time for us to work on content. Because of this, I'd like to mention a bit about all of the coming soon content, which has been held back from playtest in order to help incentivise people to check out the full book (I'm a monster, I know). Alienist: We're going with something that has a strong vibe of the conjuration sphere with more versatility in the companions they can take in exchange for getting less innate benefits. It will be replacing specialization, so that's something to note. Eventually, the creature is terrifying enough for its natural attacks to deal Wisdom damage and horrify those around it into insanity. It has spiritual ties to the 3.5 alienist, but works in a different way that works more with the mechanics that we have available. I'm pretty happy about it myself, and it feels like it's going to have a specific flavor that really works for it. Also, no alignment restriction, so go ahead and be an LG good character who chucks around outer horrors. Etheric Mystic: This is going to be the "Champion" archetype, which allows SoP casting and SoM talents. We're leaning towards blended casting, but at the moment it gets full 20 talent progression, so while there will be some choices to make, they won't be too hard (we hope). It gives enough versatility to the point where I believe it'll work out fine for anyone who wants to run a champion style character with the chassis, and it keeps bombs. Gourmand: This is the one we have the least info about now, but as was said in Full Metal Alchemist, cooking is basically alchemy. Red Headed Merchant: To me, alchemist was always a class that screamed 'battle merchant', and I wanted to embrace that. The RHB is far more social than other archetypes, gaining social talents, increased crafting speed, and decreased crafting cost, this is a very low impact archetype (replaces poison stuff and swift alchemy) that can add a lot of flavor to your characters (Please come again)! Ruin Elementalist: Of course there's a kineticist-like arch in here, but it's actually a surprisingly small archetype that's mostly used to alter bomb damage, grant an elemental defense, and the ability to gain utility wild talents. All and all, a simple yet elegant archetype that's low impact and grants a TON of new utility to things. Void Demolitionist: This is as close as I could retrofit the dimensional ripper into the alchemist chassis. Which being honest, wasn't that hard. The main class features of 'throw awesome things' made them very compatible, and while certain class features had to be made into discoveries to make sure we had enough class features to trade out, it comes with all of the charm of the original, allowing for an incredibly unique play style that I'm very proud of. To add to this, we're including organizations that should help liven up games, including a merchant organization with the traditional merchant secrets, an alchemical college with shady practices, and a mobile kingdom that lives on the back of a turtle...that last part is a lie, but it's still a very mobile kingdom. We're also adding new alchemical materials, alternative variant class bonuses, and all sorts of other stuff. This is as much a passion project as I've ever done, and I've pooled the most talented authors I could in order to make this book an amazing compilation of everything that I've ever wanted for the Alchemist since I first penned my guide. Really, if you pick up anything I've ever authored, I'd suggest it be this compendium of what I believe it means to be an Alchemist.
I want to like alchemical items more myself, I'm hoping that the class as it is becomes the premiere user of alchemical items. A lot of what I've done is stuff I've thought about while doing my guide, ideas that I thought would help the class use these mundane items as a legitimate threat. Well, that is semi possible considering there's a feat to add shape discoveries to alchemical splash weapons. You could combine alch fire with acid, expand it with a shape discovery, boost it through quintessence, and you'd have a makeshift acidic fireball! And thanks, that guide helped put me where I am today. |
