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It depends on the type of character you want.

Heroism would be very useful for almost any character. A +2 on all attacks, saves and skill checks that last 10 Min. per level is hard to beat.

Invisibility for a stealth based character would be very useful.

If you are not a druid beastshape I would be very handy. The ability to gain a climb speed, fly speed, swim speed, darkvision, low-light vision and scent is great. You also gain their attack form and stat bonus depending on the form.

It depends on the GM and the level or realism he wants. If I were running a wolf would probably be ok until 7th level. At that point it is basically a dire wolf so feeding it would be a problem. Also where is it going to be kept? Even modern ships have very cramped quarters so keeping it in your quarters is not going to work. Having a giant wild animal out in the open is going to cause problems with the crew. The other PC’s are not the issue, but any NPC’s will more than likely refuse to get near it.

I don’t require details about meals and bathrooms, but I do require the characters to have a way to feed themselves. That means they either have to have rations or a good enough survival to live off the land.

In order to use an animal as a mount it has to be one size larger than your character. Unless you are playing a small race that means to use the wolf as a mount it has to be large. Wolves do become large at 7th level and that is where the problem would start occurring. Before that many people may not even recognize it is a wolf. But once it becomes large it has a lot of problems. Most dungeons are going to be built for medium sized creatures. That means a large animal is going to have a lot of trouble.

If you have ever been in an actual castle or other building from the medieval times you would be surprised at actually how cramped they are. Even modern buildings in Europe are often smaller than people realize. My wife’s family is from England and her relatives can’t get over the size of our house. After visiting them in England I can understand this. The stairs are usually just big enough for a single person to go up at a time. A wolf the size of a Clydesdale is going not going to be able to deal with that. It may be able to get into a couple of the first rooms, but will have trouble fitting through most of the doors.

Like I said I don’t know the details of the campaign, but talk to your GM and see if there is a reason. It may be because of something he has planned. I have also seen several GM run it so in order to choose or replace an animal companion it has to be something you can find nearby. I had a GM veto one of my choices for an animal companion for that very reason

arcanine wrote:
DM_Blake wrote:

Sure, but if you really want quicken spells in the mix, you should be able to cast a quickened low-level Touch spell as a swift action, deliver it as a free action, then cast another higher-level Touch spell as a standard action and deliver that as a free action. This way you deliver TWO touch spells in a single round.

Your way, you only deliver one quickened low-level spell each round, never cast the high-level spell, don't get two per round, and you miss more often.

Your only benefit, normally is 1d3 non-lethal damage from the punch.

You have to give up all that (two spells, higher level spells, and decent chance to hit) for a pathetic little bit of non-lethal damage (and if you dumped STR, it's even worse).

Why are you so set on taking a big penalty to hit in order to do 1d3 non-lethal damage?

I get it, there are ways to make it more useful. Higher STR, AoMF, and best is possibly being a monk and using a Touch spell that allows multiple touches and then flurrying. I sure hope you're doing something like that to make it worth it.

Yes 2 levels at least of monk for the free feats ,boost to saves, and just an amazing dip in my head.

Two levels of monk are a horrible choice for a full caster. That delays your spell progression way too much. Since the monk is a ¾ BAB class and the arcanist is a ½ BAB class you will often be behind in your chance to hit. You will also getting your next level of spell much later. The extra damage from the monk’s unarmed strike are is not worth two caster levels. The saving throw bonus is a little more valuable, but can easily be gotten with gold and spells.

When a GM runs a game he will usually have a definite idea of what type of game he wants to run. Some characters and idea’ do not fit in to the game he is running. The character or ability may be perfectly legal but just doesn’t fit the campaign the GM is running. While the idea of playing a greedy thief who’s is willing to sell his mother into slaver for a coper piece may be cool. Playing that character in a campaign where the players are freedom fighters trying t to bring down a corrupt tyrant is not going to work well. In some cases you may be able to modify the character so that it is acceptable, but other times the character simply does not fit. In that case the best thing to do is to save the character concept and play it in another campaign.

Another thing to consider is sometimes the GM has plans for how the campaign is going to go that make certain concepts or options less valuable or even totally useless. I can see a couple of problems with the wolf companion. First is that much of the game is taking place on ship, or if you are traveling by ship between adventures for a long time feeding and exercising the wolf is going to be difficult. Also many crew members may be unwilling to sail with a wolf the size of a horse on board. Another thing is if most of the adventures are going to be dungeon crawls taking the wolf with you may be a problem. Your GM may be simply trying to save you from having a totally useless companion, but not wanting to give away too much of the campaign.

I don’t really understand the reason behind the agile breastplate, but I also don’t have all the information either. In any event it is probably only relevant at early levels. Once you can afford it a mithral breastplate is going to be better anyways. A mithral breastplate has an armor check penalty of only -1. This can be totally eliminated by taking the trait armor expert which is probably a good investment for a range anyways.

Boomerang Nebula

If we are talking about killing a sentient being I can agree. If we are talking about killing an animal I disagree. People kill animals on a daily bases I had a hamburger for dinner last night. While I did not personally kill the cow the meat came from I am equally responsible for the death of the animal. A person who pays for, or facilities an evil act is equally if not more guilty than the person who performs said act. If I hire a person to kill someone everyone involved in the transaction, including myself are equally guilty as the person who pulls the trigger.

I had a hamburger for dinner last night. The fact that I had a western bacon cheese burger for dinner means I hired someone to kill a cow. I do not consider myself evil for having eaten meat from a cow. Nor do I consider the kid who cooked the burger evil. Even the person who actually killed the cow is not evil. Anyone who is not a vegetarian or uses leather or other animal products and considers killing animals an evil act is a hypocrite. I happen to like hamburgers and will continue to eat them, that does not make me evil for continuing to kill animals.

There are circumstances where killing an animal would be considered an evil act. But those circumstances involve more than simply killing an animal. Torturing an animal to death, or slaughtering an entire species would be evil. But killing a dangerous animal that has already attacked you is not evil.

If you accept the fact that an ape is an animal than the situation described in the original post is not an evil act. If someone wanted to argue that an ape may be a sentient creature and should not be considered simply another animal that I could at least see. While I recognize apes are probably more developed than chickens I am not sure they qualify as a sentient being. That would be an entirely different debate.

Boomerang Nebula wrote:
iambobdole1 wrote:

As far as the original post, I think many of you have overlooked the fact that the victim in question was an animal. While the situation may be sad from a human perspective, an animal has limited capacity to understand what has happened to its master and the effects of its own actions against the party.

While my character would have left it alone, I still wouldn't say finishing the ape off would warrant anything so drastic as an alignment change. The situation is pretty neutral ground, IMO.

You can rest assured that nobody in this thread has overlooked the fact the victim was an animal.

Also, nobody has recommended an alignment change for a once off event.

Actually several people have called this an evil act. You yourself suggested that if they kept it up they would slide towards evil. How can performing an neutral act cause you to slide towards evil?

Boomerang Nebula wrote:
Mysterious Stranger wrote:
Another thing to consider this is a combat trained animal. Normal animals usually avoid humans. A combat trained animal does not do this. So now you have a dangerous wild animal that not only does not avoid humans, but is trained to attack them. Chances are very good this animal is going to attack and probably kill a human. While the hunter was alive he could control the ape so that it was not a danger to other humans. Last time I checked being dead gave you a major penalty to handle animal so it would be safe to say the ape is no longer being controlled. That being the case it can be considered a danger to humans. Killing it would not be an evil act.
If by that you mean killing the ape was a neutral act I would agree, but it certainly is not a good act. If I was GM I would have no issue with a neutral character acting in this way from time to time, but if it became habitual they would slide towards evil.

The way I view alignments is most thing start out true neutral. In most cases unless you are a sentient creature you can’t have any other alignment. The only exception I can see is maybe outsiders and something like undead whose very existence draws on an aligned force. Most action don’t have any alignment to them they simply are. These are not neutral acts they are unaligned. Other acts have alignment qualities to them. These can be lawful, chaotic, good or evil. Each act with an alignment pulls you towards that alignment. Actions from conflicting alignments can cancel each other out. To gain an alignment you have to have the majority of your actions fall under that alignment. So to be good the majority of your actions have to be good. If you have more unaligned actions than either good or evil you are neutral. The same applies to law and chaos.

Each axis acts like a number line which means it is not a simple binary good/evil, but a sliding scale. Some acts are more weighted than other so carry you further along the line.

If you are leveling up then you get whatever your new level says you get. Spells appearing in your spell book is no more unrealistic than suddenly learning a new feat, or being an expert at dealing with a completely different type of creature. If the ranger can gain his next favored enemy including the extra +2 for gaining a new enemy, why is it so hard to accept you gain new spells?

Part of the leveling up is the fact you are studying and training during the time between levels. Much of this is assumed to be happening in the background so there is no real game mechanics involved. For a wizard it may be that he is researching the spells he will learn when he levels up. When you finial actually gain the level something clicks and you figure out what you were missing. Your spell book may have notes in it that you are working on. The next time you prepare your spells you simply add whatever it was you missed.

Keep in mind that a prepared caster still has to prepare his new spells. So even if you just figured out the new spell you will need to prepare it. A spontaneous caster on the other hand is simply be able to cast the new spell.

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Boomerang Nebula wrote:
Mysterious Stranger wrote:
Another thing to consider this is a combat trained animal. Normal animals usually avoid humans. A combat trained animal does not do this. So now you have a dangerous wild animal that not only does not avoid humans, but is trained to attack them. Chances are very good this animal is going to attack and probably kill a human. While the hunter was alive he could control the ape so that it was not a danger to other humans. Last time I checked being dead gave you a major penalty to handle animal so it would be safe to say the ape is no longer being controlled. That being the case it can be considered a danger to humans. Killing it would not be an evil act.
If by that you mean killing the ape was a neutral act I would agree, but it certainly is not a good act. If I was GM I would have no issue with a neutral character acting in this way from time to time, but if it became habitual they would slide towards evil.

If it is a neutral act, how can it cause the character to become evil? At most it should cause a good player to become neutral, but even that is stretching it.

To turn evil requires that you regularly engage in evil acts. People seem to have the idea that to be good every action you take has to be good or you turn evil. They also don’t apply the same criteria to evil or neutral characters. Saying a good character turns evil for a single evil act no matter how small is ridiculous. A good person does not suddenly turn evil for a single act of theft any more than a mass murderer turns good for saving a child from being hurt by an animal.

Neutral acts should for the most part not cause someone to change alignment. Humans (and humanoids) are not perfect. We are all a mixture of good and evil, law and chaos. We all have our flaws and virtues. Most acts don’t have any alignment associated with them. Is eating good, or evil? How about killing a chicken for dinner? Is bargaining hard for your services evil? What alignment is listening to music, or singing a song?

Another thing to consider is if killing a helpless animal is evil that make the majority of humans evil. Unless you are a vegetarian you have all participated in the killing and eating of eating of animals. How is this any less evil than killing the ape that attacked you? What makes the cow any more important than the ape?

I read a book where someone was teaching a person to hunt. One of the things he stressed is that if you wound an animal but don’t kill it you should follow the animal if at all possible to finish it off. The reason he gave that leaving a wounded animal was cruel. Many animals die from the wounds even if they are not immediately killed. If the wound becomes infected the animal will die a slow painful death. If the animal is a predator it may not be able to hunt and will die of starvation. He considered hunters who allowed this to happen to be evil.

Another thing to consider this is a combat trained animal. Normal animals usually avoid humans. A combat trained animal does not do this. So now you have a dangerous wild animal that not only does not avoid humans, but is trained to attack them. Chances are very good this animal is going to attack and probably kill a human. While the hunter was alive he could control the ape so that it was not a danger to other humans. Last time I checked being dead gave you a major penalty to handle animal so it would be safe to say the ape is no longer being controlled. That being the case it can be considered a danger to humans. Killing it would not be an evil act.

Unchained Monk can take elemental fury at 6th level. This will give you what you want, but not till 6th level.

Paulicus wrote:

You mentioned inquisitor. They can be very effective combatants (a little better with melee, but no real problems with ranged combat other than a lack of bonus feats) and they have a number of useful buff & utility spells, including some normally reserved for arcane casters (like See Invisibily, Invisibility, Stoneskin, and more). Prayer is a good spell they get that boosts the whole party, and debuffs the enemies with no save, though the changes are minor, they're still quite useful (I bring it up since you admit to having little PF experience).

Inquisitors are also pretty good at using skills, and get a base of 6 skill points per level (just like Rangers). You can work with your party of cover gaps in skills.

I really like inquisitors, very well-balanced and versatile class.

The problem with playing an inquisitor is his WIS. Even playing a dwarf or other race that gives a WIS bonus he is still only at 13 WIS. Any spell with a save is going to be too easy to resist. A ranger gets some spells but mostly buff and utility spells. The original post specifies stats already assigned so I am assuming they cannot be swapped or modified other than by racial adjustments

Inquisitor is probably the worst class to multiclass. Both classes have a lot of level dependent abilities and gain more abilities as they level up. They also both get spells and even have a lot of spells in common. Dipping a level or two of bard is not really going to give you much and will delay your inquisitor abilities so you actually loose more than you gain. Also both classes are ¾ BAB classes so a single level dip actually hurts your chance to hit. They both also have different casting stats so you are going to be spreading yourself very thin.

What is he looking to get out of being a bard? If all he wants to be is a singing inquisitor just take the trait Talented. It gives you a +1 on a single perform skill, and all perform skills become class skills. If he wants some bard abilities then use the variant multiclass from Pathfinder unchained. It is much better to sacrifice feats instead of levels to gain bard abilities. This combination would actually work pretty well especially for identifying monsters. He would get bardic knowledge at 3rd level and some performances at 7th. He still keeps his full inquisitor progression so does not lose anything except feats.

This would actually make a good dwarf ranger. Rangers get enough skills that you are not limited to just hitting things. Put your stat boost in STR, DEX, WIS in that order. This gives you some decent combat ability and the ability to cast your 4th level spells. With the right choice of favored enemy and terrain you will have some very high skills. Your stats are perfect for a switch hitter

For identifying monsters you could always pick up improved monster lore.

It seems to be that your argument is not rules as written vs rules as intended, but rules as written vs rules as I interpret them.

In the case of the multiweapon fighting you seem to be partially right. The one thing I did not see in the feat is that the penalties are reduced for using a light weapon. So I would allow the extra attacks at the -6 penalty even if they are light weapons. The strange thing with the feat is it actually has a lower DEX requirement than two weapon fighting. It seems strange that a character with 6 limbs and a 13 DEX would be better at fighting with 2 dagger than a character with 2 limbs and a 15 DEX.

Your GM was right on the shackles. Unless you were taking the penalties for wielding a second weapon you were not wielding it. You only get the benefits if you are willing to take any penalties that come with it.

What you plan to do is a battle you cannot win. Rule 0 means the GM has the right to overrule anything he wants for any reason he wants. If he is a dick about it you simply find another GM, but RAW his word is final. That by the way is not just RAW, that is RAI.

Sah wrote:
I feel that it is not its own thing as much as variant arcane.

I agree that alchemy is not a separate form of magic. They pretty much take one type of magic and hyper specialize in it. The only other class that does anything close would be the summoner and that is only one class.

Of course the Zen Archer is going to be the better archer. They are essentially an archery focused martial class. Most of their class features are designed to make them better archers. They are highly specialized and a specialist will always be better at his specialty than a generalist. But take away his bow and the Zen Archer just took a major nerf. They can still do the unarmed attacks so they are not helpless, but they are a lot less powerful without the bow.

The inquisitor is just the opposite. Their major class abilities function equally well on any weapon regardless of if it is melee or ranged. They can even use it on improvised weapons. While the idea of an undead bane barstool may seem strange and even silly it works well when you have nothing else. Judgements are also weapon independent and when combined with bane a buff or two the inquisitor can adapt to almost any situation. If you were in a social setting like a royal court most weapons will probably not be permitted. Carrying a knife or dagger is probably going to be ok, but a long bow and quiver is just not going to fly.

The inquisitor also has a lot of things besides combat he gets. The Zen Archer on the other hand is pretty much straight up combat with a little skill and utility throw in for good measure. The Inquisitor is one of the best skill monkeys in the game and a full caster. He also gets a lot of abilities that can be used outside of combat.

Both characters are actually very good classes but they focus on different things. If you want to be a kick ass archer than the Zen Archer is probably better. If you want more versatility and noncombat abilities the inquisitor wins hands down.

Brilliant energy, flaming burst, holy, merciful and speed all seem to be very useful. Admittedly they are situational, but the paladin can choose which one he uses each time. Most of them do require higher than a +1 bonus, but at lower level often the best use is simply to add bonus to your already magic weapon. Keen is good before you can pick up improved critical. Flaming Burst on a falchion with improved Critical and bless weapon is actually pretty good.

With flying kick you don’t need to take a 5 foot step. You can as part of the flying kick move up to your fast movement bonus. At 5th level when you get your first style strike that is 10 feet. All this means is that you cannot take a 5 foot step in addition to the movement for flying kick. This does not require, or use a move action. So you can’t take a 5 foot step and attack, and then use a flying kick. You can however attack someone next to you and then take a flying kick against another target as long as you still have an attack left to kick with. You could also take a flying kick before making any attack and then full attack anything within reach after you made your kick.

Actually Improved Critical is a very good feat for a paladin because it stacks with Bless weapon. Use a Falchion and when attacking evil creatures you will be getting more critical hits than you can imagine. Auto confirming a critical on a threat range of 15-20 means a lot of damage. There are better uses for divine bond than keen.

Consider playing a half orc so you can pick up Ferocious Resolve. Combine that with Fey Foundling and they have to kill you to stop you. And killing a Paladin with Fey Foundling is pretty hard. Corngun Smash works well for this character. Just make sure to pick up bully to get intimidate as a class skill.

alexd1976 wrote:
Mysterious Stranger wrote:

Keeping a low level spell caster confined is not that difficult. Knock is probably the lowest level spell that would be of any use escaping confinement. After that Gaseous Form would be best way to escape. Knock can be defeated by a portcullis that is too heavy for the caster to lift. So anyone not able to cast 3rd level spells or bellow is fairly easy. Assuming you have the caster blindfolded, gaged and bound this will raise the bar to 4th level spell. So what we are looking at is being able to constrain a caster of at least 7th level if not higher.

There is one thing that may shut down any spell caster. Strap the caster in a suit of Noqual splint mail and a tower shield. Design the armor and shield so that it can be locked into place. This will give %110 percent spell failure and that spell failure applies to all casters reguardless of source or class ability of their magic. The questionable part is does still spell count as a class feature?

Still Spell is a feat.

What if they get bonus feats from the class, and use THAT to take Still Spell? ;)

I realize that still spell if a feat, but I can see that it may not work. Considering Noqual armor gives spell failure to caster like clerics that are normally able to cast in armor still spell may not work. It could also be argued that the feat is modifying a class feature so the armor would still give the chance of spell failure

Keeping a low level spell caster confined is not that difficult. Knock is probably the lowest level spell that would be of any use escaping confinement. After that Gaseous Form would be best way to escape. Knock can be defeated by a portcullis that is too heavy for the caster to lift. So anyone not able to cast 3rd level spells or bellow is fairly easy. Assuming you have the caster blindfolded, gaged and bound this will raise the bar to 4th level spell. So what we are looking at is being able to constrain a caster of at least 7th level if not higher.

There is one thing that may shut down any spell caster. Strap the caster in a suit of Noqual splint mail and a tower shield. Design the armor and shield so that it can be locked into place. This will give %110 percent spell failure and that spell failure applies to all casters reguardless of source or class ability of their magic. The questionable part is does still spell count as a class feature?

Alex Mack wrote:

Something I learned recently: you can't 5 foot step and use flying kick.

I was always under the impression that you could 5ft step when you didn't take a move action to move but you can only 5 foot step if you didn't move in a round.

That is not true. The flying kick is part of the furry of blows and does not require any other actions. This means you get the equivalent to a free move action up to your fast movement bonus. So at 5th level you can move up to 10 feet. You can also make the flying kick between attacks so as long as you have at least one attack left you can make the flying kick. You could also start with the flying kick, or make an attack and then do a flying kick.

Power attack gives more versatility, but requires more thinking. With weapon focus you always have the bonus when attacking with that weapon. With power attack you can choose to use it as needed. If you are fighting a bunch of low AC low HP minions it works really well. It also works well when fighting creatures with medium AC and high HP. If you are fighting something hard to hit you can choose not to use it so you can actually hit. Weapon focus is also limited to a single weapon, where power attack can be used with any melee weapon.

What are all these great feats the 1st level Zen Archer gets? Perfect strike is really weak if you only have a single level of Zen Archer. A Zen Archer 1/Inquisitor 11 has three uses. A 12th level inquisitor has three uses. If you really want to hit pick up true strike as an inquisitor spell.

Improved unarmed strike is also not that strong. Yes it does 1d6 damage but so do most weapons. Always having a weapon is good but how often will you use it?

So that leaves us with a single bonus feat. Since flurry does not stack with rapid shot and many shot you are left with two choices. The first is take precise shot so you do better at lower levels, but then you either give up on getting many shot or end up having to take the feats latter. Second you can use the bonus feat to pick up rapid shot, but then you really are not getting anything until 9th level. Either way you end up wasting resources.

Now let’s look at what you give up. Since this is for PFS you never get greater bane, and you lose 1 round of regular bane. You are also down one for the following judgments Destruction, Healing, Piercing and Resistance. You also lose one teamwork feat, and a 4th level spell. You also lose one BAB which will affect things like deadly aim and getting more attacks. You can use flurry to keep the BAB but then you can’t use rapid shot or many shot.

You are also delaying all your inquisitor abilities by a level. Now you need to be 6th level to get bane and Discern Lies, Cunning Initiative and detect alignment does not kick in till 3rd level, Second Judgement comes at 9th instead of 8th. Stalwart is now gained at 12th level. You are also down one caster level and delay getting your higher level spells by a full level. You also lose one level of favored class bonus. This might seem minor but if you are playing a human that is an extra 3rd level spell.

BretI wrote:

If you don't mind grabbing another book, Piranha Strike may work better for your build than Power Attack. It also means you don't need a 13 strength, although the carrying capacity is nice.

I agree that Wisdom of less than 10 is a very bad idea. The Con is a little low for a front liner as well.

Drop the Charisma a little bit, invest in Wisdom.

Piranha Strike only works with light weapons. The rapier is a one handed martial weapon, not a light weapon so that does not work. If he is going for piranha strike than the kukri is the weapon to use, but you need slashing grace instead of fencing grace.

My Self wrote:

Keep a huge bottle of this around, pump it into the target until they're unconscious or every 2 hours.

Oh, and make sure they're not a Druid.

Druids are easy just put them in metal armor and they are done.

The feats you get free as a first level monk are not that valuable. Improved unarmed strike is ok but not really that important. Perfect strike is a good feat for a monk especially a Zen Archer because you get 1 use per level. The inquisitor does not get this, he also only get to roll twice instead of 3 times.

Flurry is useful at low levels, but not at higher levels. All you really get is the extra attack from first level. It does not work with rapid shot or many shot, so if you want many shot, it is wasted. The whole idea behind an archer is to full attack as often and with as many attacks as you can. At 12th level the pure inquisitor with only rapid shot will have the same number of attacks at the same bonus as the character that dipped 1 level of Zen Archer. The Zen Archer can of course pick up rapid shot and many shot but the level of monk drops his BAB when not flurrying so he is at a -1 penalty vs the pure inquisitor. The loos of the BAB also mean you do less damage from deadly aim. So what you end up with is an inferior archer.

An Oread makes an even better monk than a dwarf. You get a bonus to both STR and WIS. Take Granite Skin and Crystalline Form for alternative racial traits. Take Indomitable faith for a +1 Will Save. Don’t forget you still get still mind for a +2 save vs Enchantments spells and effects.

At first it seems like having a weak will save will really hinder the unchained monk, but that is not really the case. Since WIS is really your only important mental stat you only will be looking for ways to raise it as you level up. You can also focus mostly on STR for your physical stats. This creates a situation where your saves are fairly even. Buy a belt of STR and a headband of WIS. This allows you to maximize those stats for a lot less than if you were trying to boost them all. This means that your saves are actually pretty close. The old monk had ridiculously high will saves to the point he could almost not fail them. The unchained monk has decent will saves because of his WIS.

At 20th level with just a headband of WIS +6 and indomitable faith your saves will be +14 +14 +13. You also get+2 vs enchantments because of still mind making your will save +15 vs charms and such. The old monk at that level would be +14 +14 +18, with +20 vs enchantments.

The following conditions will prevent spell casting Dazed, Fascinated, Nauseated, Stunned and Unconscious. There are probably poisons or drugs that give the nauseated condition, but don’t know any off the top of my head.

There are also a lot of conditions that make spell casting difficult like grappled, pinned but don’t shut it down completely.

If you want realism Pathfinder is not the game for you. Many of the things a Pathfinder character routinely does are impossible in the real world, especially at high level. Do you similarly nerf other classes due to realism? The current world record for the long jump is a little over 29 feet a 5th level monk with a 10 DEX can easily beat this record without spending any Ki. A 1st level raging barbarian can totally destroy a 2 inch thick oak door in a single blow. Spell casters are even worse.

Unless you are going to nerf all characters equally because of realism don’t nerf any. If you don’t want guns in your game that is fine, but if you are going to allow it then accept it is not going to be realistic.

Share spell allows you to do two things. The first allows you to cast a spell on the familiar with a target of you as a touch spell. The second is it allows you to cast a spell on the familiar even if the spell does not work on the familiar’s type. Extracts act as spells except they can normally only be cast on the alchemist himself. Many of the spells that the extract duplicates already meet those conditions, but still cannot be used on anyone else unless you have the infusion discovery. This means that even with share spell you would still need the infusion discovery to affect your familiar.

What point buy?

The hedge witch only really has two changes. The first trades out your 4th level hex for the spontaneous healing. The nice thing is the witch does not even need to have the spell in her familiar. The second is empathic healing which allows the witch to take the effect of a poison or disease this replaces your 8th level hex. The important thing is to take the healing patron for access to condition removal spells. The witch also has all the summon monster spells on her list.

Pathfinder unchained is the new book that rewrites some rules including a rewrite on monks and rogues. The Monk is now a full BAB class among other things, but gave up good will saves. The rogue gets some extra abilities including weapon finesse for free and DEX to damage on a limited number of weapons.

An unchained monk is not really a squishy character anymore. The DEX based finesse monk actually works ok for a rat folk. He has a little trouble with damage, but he is surprisingly accurate. Piranha Strike will really help there. Since unarmed strikes are light weapons it works for him. The cornered fury can give him a +2 to hit and a +2 AC.

I agree about making the extra attack with a monk weapon. The ability is called Ki Flurry not unarmed flurry. The original monk could do this so it looks like a mistake.

Are you using pathfinder unchained? The unchained monk and rogue are a big improvement over the original class, especially the monk.

Bump the point buy up to a 25 instead of 20. Also consider starting them at 2nd level instead of 1st. This will give them more HP and survivability.

As to the healing a wand of cure light wounds will take care of the HP. What they may have trouble with is condition removal. If the witch chooses the healing patron that will give them the majority of the condition removal spells. Taking the hedge witch archetype will give her the ability to spontaneously convert any spell she know into a cure x spell of the same or lower level even if she does not know the spell. If the witch is a hedge witch with the healing patron and you are generous with wands of cure light wounds and scrolls of condition removal spells they will never miss a healer. The witch can still use her spells and hexes for combat so she does not need to be a heal bot.

For the ratfolk monk dump CHA hard and focus on DEX. If you are using the 25 pt buy I would suggest the following array (after racial adjustments) STR 12, DEX18, CON 14, INT 11, WIS, 16, CHA 7. Take weapon finesse and then piranha strike at 3rd level. Also take the alternative racial traits of Cornered Fury and Skulk. Take dodge and combat reflexes for your first two monk bonus feats. When he gets to 6th level take elemental fury for some extra damage. Once he gets to about 4th level he will be fine. Corned Fury works actually very well for him. If he is at least 30 feet from anyone and down to half or lower HP he is very accurate and tough to take down. He will probably be the last one standing in a fight so make sure he has a couple of cure potions to use on the witch to heal her. Use a reach weapon like double chained Kama to take advantage of combat reflexes. He will still attack unarmed when he can but this allows him to get AoO on things moving into attack him.

The appropriate stat boosting spells, Bull Strength, Cats Grace, Etc..

Don’t forget about malnutrition. A steady diet of just meat is not a balanced diet and will lead to a lot of health problems. You still need fruits and vegetables.

The description of restore corpse says the flesh is somewhat rotted and not fit for eating. Notice it does not say it is rotten just somewhat rotten. But it does specifically state that it is not fit for eating. This could mean that while the flesh is restored enough to create a zombie it does not restore the nutritional value to the flesh. If that is the case then purify food and water will not do anything.

But the 2nd level Ranger spell all food would work. It would cost significantly more but would not have the problems of malnutrition.

The inquisitor is a great class, but I would not bother dipping. All it does is delay getting class abilities. The inquisitor has more level dependent abilities than any other class. You give up way too much by dipping.

Both monk and inquisitor are ¾ BAB classes. This means that you are a full point behind the straight monk or inquisitor. Since many feats have BAB requirements this may delay your ability to get the feat. Also any scaling feats based on BAB will also be delayed.

Inquisitors get their spells slower than clerics so they are already a level behind in that. A single level dip puts them a full spell level behind. When you are getting 2nd level spells the cleric is getting 3rd level spells. You also lose a caster level but this can be made up with a trait, but that still means you don’t have the trait for something else.

You also delay getting bane which is probably the single most valuable inquisitor class feature. Even when you get it you lose a round off the duration. The same is true for all your other class features.

What does the level of Zen Archer give? You get increased unarmed damage, a free bonus feat, and perfect strike. You do get the ability to add WIS to AC but only when not wearing armor. Since the bonus does not scale you are probably better off wearing armor. Magic armor can give you more than just AC. The shadow enchantment for example can give you a +5 to stealth and is fairly cheap. You can get the bonus with a cloak or other item but that usually uses a magic item slot.

You are also give up 2 skill points and a favored class bonus.

While I understand that having fun is the most important part of the game, I don’t think that pointless dipping is fun. Before dipping always ask yourself how this is going to make the character more fun to play. In this case I really don’t see what extra the Zen Archer brings to the character. What I do see that is it delays the cool abilities that make playing an inquisitor fun.

Zen Archer 1 does not really give all that much except for a free feat. It would be better to go straight inquisitor, or straight zen archer instead.

Demons will be able to overcome the damage resistance chaotic. The problem with replacing perfect self is there is nothing really good at that level. Ki Shout may be worth a look because demons don’t have resistance to sonic. Wind stance would give your opponents 20% miss chance with ranged weapons when you move, but it cost 2 Ki per round to activate. If there is another ranged combatant Battlemind Link may be worth a look.

Zen Archer has a lot of useful abilities after 6th. 9th level gives you the ability to make attack of opportunities with the bow. 10th level gives you three rolls on perfect shot. 11th level gives you the ability to ignore total cover or total concealment, and even have your arrows shoot around comers. 12th level gives you abundant step.

There are also a lot of little things that add up that you are forgetting. The pure Zen Archer has full BAB with his bow so gets 5 attacks at 11th level at +9/+9/+4/+4/-1, taking the inquisitor levels drop you to three attacks at +7/+7+/2. So you have lost 2 attacks and +2 to hit on each. You also lose 1 bonus feat, but get a teamwork feat instead. You lost 2 points of Ki and 5 uses of Perfect strike. The Zen Archer can also make attacks of opportunity with his bow which can give you at least another attack per round maybe even two. The Zen archer also has the ability to fire shoot someone from the rear window of a building while he is in the front of the building. The Zen archer also has an extra 10 feet of movement. You lose one point of AC. You have also lost 5 point of favored class bonus so figure you are down 5 HP.

The inquisitor does give you some abilities but a lot of them are fairly weak or limited for an 11th level character. You will run out of bane very quickly and only get judgements twice a day. You gave up 6 caster level so you are way behind on spells and the duration of the buffs will be way down.

The extra BAB on flurry will mean you are getting the bonus from deadly aim sooner so actually doing more damage. The pure Zen Archer is a lot better with the bow.

Do you have a reliable method of getting enlarge person? If not don’t factor it in. Even if you do it will be a GM call if it works with Ki strike.

Do you know what you are likely to be going against? If the things you are going to be fighting cannot overcome damage resistance chaotic it is a very good ability. If you do want to swap it out you can take greater penetrating strike. This allows you to ignore 10 points of damage reduction. It can even ignore untyped damage reduction but only 5 points worth.

Another way to get a lot of versatility in your attacks is to use magic arrows. Put the enchantments you will always use on the bow, and the situational ones on the arrows. Max out the bonus on the bow as that will always be useful Adaptive is also one you will want on your bow. Things like Holy, Distracting, and elemental damages can all be placed on a simple +1 arrow. 50 +1 merciful arrows cost 8,320 GP. A +5 Adaptive composite long bow costs 50,400 GP. A +5 Adaptive Merciful composite long bow costs 72, 400 GP. If you add Seeking to the bow the cost of the bow goes up to 98,400 GP. So instead of getting a distracting bow to fire tangle foot arrows get distracting tangle foot arrows.

As far as equipment goes make sure you get at least one efficient quiver maybe even two. Also consider bags of holding just for your arrows. You could go through 300 arrows in about 10 to 20 rounds so you will want lots of arrows. For normal arrows get durable arrows so you can reclaim them. Get lots of trick and magic arrows to cover whatever you need. Raining arrows are good for dealing with undead. Blunt arrows are good for skeletons and dealing non-lethal damage without having to use merciful. Trip arrows are also handy for slowing down an enemy. As Gwen Smith said tangle foot arrows are good against spell casters. She also brings up a good point on the blanches. Most people forget about mundane equipment at high levels. This is a mistake because some of the mundane equipment is actually very good.

My Self wrote:
Chacatumbi wrote:

Granted Powers: Your faith is your greatest source of protection, and you can use that faith to defend others. In addition, you receive a +1 resistance bonus on saving throws. This bonus increases by 1 for every 5 levels you possess.

It's a plus 5 resist cape at 20 for free and slotless

When "levels" are written as part of a class feature, they mean "class levels" (in this case, inquisitor) unless otherwise stated. Things that refer to character level (monk+inquisitor) always say character level.


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I think LazarX does not understand the purpose of this thread, or my post. He seems to think that we are talking about altering the rules. That is not the purpose of this thread, or at least not the way I see it. The purpose of the thread is more about fluff than game mechanics. No one suggested making any changes to the rules, especially me.

What this thread is about to me is a discussion on how magic works not in terms of game mechanics, but rather from the perspective of the actual characters. From a game mechanics point the reason I can cast spells is my class is a spell caster. That is fine for a player but the charter is going to look at it differently.

The fact of the matter is that game mechanics actually support my view more than LazarX’s. Each caster class actually does use a different set of rules. The post I was responding to was questioning why a magus/wizard cannot use magic missile in armor with his wizard spells. If all casters had the same mechanics for spells this would actually be a sound argument. But all casters do not use the same mechanics when casting spells. Each one has separate rules on how they cast.

Even a wizard and a sorcerer have completely different methods. The wizard for one thing is an INT based prepared caster. The way I see it the wizard is carefully following a precise formula that he has to cram for in order to fully understand. He is probably drawing the power to cast the spell while he is memorizing it. Since he has to have a material component he may use the material component to store the energy of the spell. When he finally cast the spell he pulls out the sand and probably throws it towards the targets.

The sorcerer on the other hand is a CHA based spontaneous caster. All he needs to do to regain his spells is to rest for 8 hours and spend 15 minutes to gather his power and he is done. He requires no book and spends considerably less time focusing than the wizard. When he does cast the spell he simply focuser his will and releases the energy. He does not need to worry about sand, or rose petals or having a live cricket. He probably does some sort of gesture, but it is not throw sand and each sorcerer could have different gestures.

Two characters casting the same spell, but each of them does it in a completely different way. This is the way the current rules system work.

No the protection domain will only give you a +1 on your saves. You last level of monk will also give the same bonus.

True strike is a level 4 power and gives you a +20 competency bonus on your next attack. That seems to be pretty good. Ki stand is also not bad for low levels. Since you cannot fire when prone if someone trips you can no longer flurry.

You could trade out perfect self to greater penetrating strike. Other options would be on one of the critical feats

You could also take both lunge and whirlwind attack to be able to target all creatures within 10 feet of you after 17th level . But again check with your GM on this.

Also don’t sell perfect self short. Chaotic attacks are pretty rare so that allows you to ignore the first 10 points of damage vs each attack. It probably will not help that much vs the boss, but works very well vs minions and summoned creatures. Being an outsider also gives you immunity to a lot of spells including many high level enchantment spells.

Indy is really not that good at unarmed combat. Most of the time what he fights are normal people who are also unarmed. I don’t see him fighting dangerous animals without weapons. He probably has decent physical stats and uses archeologist luck (with fates favored and lingering performance). Also spells can help with this too. All archeologist bards should be taking heroism as soon as they get second level spells. He brawls a lot because he has no choice, not because he is highly trained hand to hand expert.

By 5th assuming a 14 STR he is +10 to hit and doing 1d3+5 points of damage.

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Entryhazard wrote:
Mysterious Stranger wrote:
There is no reason that each type of caster could not have their own way of tapping into the power of the universe. Each tradition taps into the energy in completely different ways. The best analogy I can think of is how electronic devices require different power adapters to function. The magus 1/ wizard cannot use spells in armor because the power he is drawing on to cast as a wizard is different than that the magus. Just like an android and an iphone require different charges so do the spells. The multiclass character is like the person who carries both. Just like you can’t use a android app on the iphone, he can’t use a wizard slot to cast like a magus.
Technically the character can have a single spellbook and prepare, say, Shocking Grasp for either magus and wizard from the same page

I can also have a single license for a software program that allows me to run it on my windows desktop, my Macintosh laptop and even my android phone. That does not mean I can use my desktop while I am traveling. It still has to be plugged and would be a pain to try and carry with me. , but I carry my phone with me. If I want to use the application while walking to the store the phone is really the only way I can use it. Each devices has advantages and disadvantages. The desktop has the largest screen and the most power. The laptop sacrificed some screen size and power for portability. The screen on the phone is even smaller and it has less power, but is it can connect to the internet almost anywhere. Each device(class) has its own limitations even though they often do the same thing.

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