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Mysterious Stranger's page

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What they really need are some talents that significantly increase selected skills.

Improved Skill: Add +1/2 level (minimum +1) to selected class skill.

Quicken Skill: The selected skill takes less time to perform than normal. If the skill takes a 1 min. to perform it can be done as in a full turn. If it takes a full turn it can be done as a move action. If it takes a move action it can be done as a swift action. If it takes longer than 1 min it takes ½ the normal time to perform.


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The single biggest problem with the rogue is the lack of decent rogue talents. While there are some good ones most of them are horrible. Too many of them are one a day talents. Since most of them are supposed to be non-magical abilities this makes no sense. Why am I only hard to fool once a day? Why can I only create camouflage once every 24 hours? Skill focus stealth gives me a +3 to all stealth rolls and it increases to +6 when I have 10 ranks. A feat that even a commoner can take is actually better than the rogue talent.


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Actually if you want to maximize the use of teamwork feats consider a hunter. Not only do they get the ability to swap out their teamwork feats like the inquisitor, their animal companion also gets their teamwork feats.


kestral287 wrote:
LazarX wrote:
kestral287 wrote:

Empyreal Knight, a paladin archetype Paladin, is a class devoted to summoning angels. But it's not necessarily very good.

What are the two levels of Paladin doing for you that's worth delaying casting?

There's only one reason anyone dips 2 levels of Paladin... Divine Grace.

Presumably the OP wants the typical Paladin/Sorcerer combo or Paladin/Oracle.

If it's the saves you want, go Oracle with the Divine Protection feat. Oracle can be a decent summoner.

In my mind Divine Protection killed any reason to dip Paladin. If you really want the saves, go whateverdivinecasteryoulike 1/Sorcerer 19 and drop the feat on Divine Protection. I'd lose a feat slot for a caster level/spell progression any day, especially on a summon-centric character.

That said I'm liking full Oracle more. The best part of Sorcerer Summoning (Abyssal Bloodline) is neutered by you going for Good summons. Summoner is also a very good choice, optimization-wise, but Oracle has a wider toolbox for if things go screwy on you. It's a question of whether you want focus or options.

Divine Protection requires the ability to cast 2nd level Divine spells, which means a Sorcerer is not able to take the feat.


Rovagug is about as subtle as a brick thrown through a window. It took the combined might of all the gods, good and evil combined to contain him. He is depicted as being an alien being whose only interest is in destruction. There are two theories of his origin, one is that he is one of the Outer Gods, the other is that he is the strongest of the Qlippoth. He is supposed to be an evil older than the earth itself and may not even fully understand humanoid thought.

The mistakes he would make are numerous and would probably be fairly obvious. From the sounds of things he may not even be consciously creating his spawn. They seem to be creatures that are created by his mere presence, not through any premeditated act. All of his spawn are obviously non-human and are only interested in destruction; they are also a reflection of the god himself.

A bard is probably going to be able to spot the plot with almost embarrassing ease. Bardic lore means the bard will get a roll to spot any inconsistencies. Multiple knowledge’s may come into effect, and the bard will get a roll on all of them.

I would suggest that you change the deity to some other deity who is trying to free a spawn for reasons of his or her own. Norgorber was suggested for this role and I agree he would be the ideal candidate. You could even make things even more complicated by having him pose as Rovagug to throw off the trail. This also gives you the classic plot within a plot.


There are several classes that can be undead killing machines. Clerics are the most obvious but channel energy works better vs hordes of lower level threats than to the boss undead. Paladins are just the opposite they are the best class to take down the boss undead, but only average vs the hordes of lesser undead. Paladins big advantage vs undead hordes are his defenses. With good saves and immunity to fear and disease they can probably last longer vs undead than any other class.

Rangers who max out favored enemy of undead can also be an undead killing machine. A high STR ranger with two weapon fighting can mow through undead. Other than a few general combat spells like lead blades, or gravity bow their spells are not really geared for going up against undead, but can still be useful. But at 10th level they get +6 to hit and damage vs. all undead with any weapon they use. This bonus is also applied to other skills like perception, and sense motive making them very good at finding undead.

An inquisitor is also another class that does well vs. undead. With Bane and Judgments active they can do a lot of damage. They have some of the best investigative skills in the game so are great at uncovering undead. Since the can detect evil that makes undead even easier to spot. If you dip 1 level of cleric you can pick up channel scourge and your inquisitor levels add to your channel energy and you can also advance the sun domain bonus to damage. This would probably be the strongest undead killer.


This seems more of an archer ranger than a switch hitter. The switch hitter focuses on melee with his normal feats and uses the combat feats for archery. About the only normal feat you may want would be deadly aim.

Also the archer ranger got a little better since Treantmonk put together the guide. Prior to point blank master you could not really use a bow in close combat so the switch hitter was the answer to this. With point blank master which a ranger can take at 6th level you can create an archer that uses the bow even when attacking something directly in front of him.


Raise Thread is a 5th level clerical spell so as long as you are a 9th level cleric you are fine. If you are a wizard you need to wait and use Limited Wish to be able to duplicate Raise Thread.


Judgments may be only a few times per day, but it is a lot more than just a bonus to hit. The thing with Judgments is they are whatever you need them to be. If you are going up against something that uses an elemental attack judgment of resistance is great. If you go half orc and take ferocious resolve than judgment of healing is great for those long battles. You literally have to be killed to be stopped.


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Actually an Inquisitor can easily do this. Dump CHA and take the conversion inquisition to use WIS for Bluff, Diplomacy and Intimidate. Use the traits Criminal, and World Traveler to get disable device and knowledge local as class skills. You can use both Divine Favor and Judgment of Justice to get a total of +2 to attack so you only need a 16 STR to get the +5.

What I would suggest is a half orc with the following stats STR 18(16 +2 racial), DEX 14, CON 14, INT 10, WIS 15, CHA 8. Put the 4th level stat to WIS. Half Orc allow you to get the feat Ferocious Resolve which grants you the ability to function at negative HP. They also get proficiency in Falchion which means you have a decent melee weapon no matter what got you chose. The orc favored class bonus gives you ½ your level to intimidate and monster lore which is like getting +3 skills points per level. Add in the inquisitor bonus to intimidate and max out intimidation and you will scare the crap out of anything. Pick up power attack and Cornugun Smash by 7th level and get a you can roll to demoralize anyone you are attacking.

You are not charming and debonair; you are the voice of GOD. When you say something people listen and usually obey.

The thing to keep in mind with the inquisitor is they are ok in most combat, but when they pull out the stops they get insane. By 5th level you will have bane and your judgments will have increased. A spell or two and you will be doing some serious damage.


Each lich is different so there is no single answer to what type of minions they have. Look at what the lich was before he became a lich and that will give you the idea of what kind of minions they will have. Some may not even have minions at all.

Martial characters don’t really get a lot out of becoming a lich. A Graveknight is a much better template for a martial character.

You can use anything you want for your phylactery, but for the most part it is usually hidden somewhere that is difficult to find. If the lich is smart he has created a secret hidden lair far away from his normal lair and stores the phylactery there. This hidden lair will have the equipment he needs to be functional in the lair. If the lich is able to teleport it can be a place that can only be reached by teleportation. Another idea is to create a demi plane and keep the phylactery there. In either case the lich will probably have some backup magic items for it to use. Maybe not as strong as the ones it normally uses, but better than nothing.


Pendagast wrote:


don't be silly.

elves get 4 related, fixed feats to balance out the human I get to spend an extra feat on what ever I want.
coupled with a free skill point forever.
So technically, the human starts out with more skills than an elf, and anyone building a character would rather have the choice of a feat of their choice, over a cache of weapon proficiencies.
That;s hardly equal to the feats of a 10th level character.

No one would ever spend a feat on longsword AND...

The fact that it is not optimized does not mean that it did not take time to learn. The whole point of the thread is that elves should start knowing more. Whether you would rather take something else is also beside the point. The fact of the matter is that elves spend time learning to use weapons, and being trained in magic. For a human or any other race to get these things would require 5 feats. Since you get feats every two levels that means that it would take a non elf character until 1oth level to get.

As I have said before humans are not the base race that everything is based on that they were in the previous editions. They are the dominant race of the game for a reason. Every guide for any class has humans as the most optimal race. If they are not the optimal race they are a close second. We need to stop comparing the elf to the human, and instead use a generic race.

As pointed out by Eltacolibre elves also have access to Breadth of Experience. Which means they can start out knowing a lot more than a any other race.


Elven spell casters start with a lot more than the human in a similar class. They get 4 weapon proficiencies and the equivalent to spell penetration. That is like getting the feats of a 10th level character at level 1. It’s the non-spell casting elves that are getting the short end of the stick.

There are some alternative racial traits that replace elven magic to give the non-spell casters abilities they can actually use. Envoy is pretty decent for a non-spell caster as it gives you almost the equivalent of a first level spell casters spells. Silent Hunter is also decent, but you will probably be high level before you are making stealth rolls while running.

Elven weapon familiarity is pretty bad for a class that already has proficiency with martial weapons as the only elven weapon is the elven curve blade. None of the alternative racial traits give anything really decent. What they really need to do is to create some decent exotic elven weapons.

The way I run elves are much more likely to have a PC class instead of an NPC class. I have no elven commoners all elves start as at least an expert. The typical elven warrior is a ranger not a warrior. And Magic using classes like bard, witch and wizard are fairly common. This means the average elf is a lot more skilled than an equivalent human. This does not change anything for the player characters, but it does give elven culture a unique feel. Compare an elf expert to a human commoner and the elf is way more skilled.


Actually a Zen Archer does great for damage. You just have to realize that you need to build differently and that until 3rd level you are going to be a little weak. Optimally you want a 13 DEX to qualify for deadly aim. Other than that DEX is not important. Put your points into WIS and STR with enough CON to keep you alive. Dump CHA to hell because it does nothing for you. INT leave at 10 so you don’t lose skill points.

Almost all your archery feats are given as bonus feats. Don’t take rapid shot or many shot use flurry of arrows instead.


One thing the hunter does much better is direct damage spells. While the druid list is not as good at blasting as a wizard it does have some decent area of affect damage spells. It also has entangle which as a first level spell. A hunter can lock down many opponents with this spell. The ranger spell list also has some decent self-buff spells the summoner does not have. Gravity bow and Lead Blades come to mind.

I would suggest instead of buffing your animal companion a better strategy would be to use some of your spells to attack or control the battle field.

The hunter also gets a lot better skills including the skill that will allow you to setup an ambush. Consider an archery focused hunter using stealth to get the drop on the opponent and casting entangle. Unless his opponent gets lucky the hunter is going to fill him full of arrows.

Also if there is an inquisitor in the party you can both swap your teamwork feats and your animal companion gets your teamwork feats. That means that there are 3 creatures that have the teamwork feat.


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DominusMegadeus wrote:
Owly wrote:
Manacles of Cooperation
Manacles of Cooperation wrote:
DC 11 Will saving throw
Original Poster wrote:
my players are going to be starting off in jail. They are level 11
I would also question the morals of any 'paladins' that use charm/compulsion spells. Depends on the god, I guess.

Why would a paladin have problems with using magic to compel a legally convicted criminal to behave properly? A paladin will have no problem enforcing a legally valid sentence, especially from a legitimate moral authority. If the prison employing the paladin is not a legitimate and moral authority he will not work for them. Casting a spell to compel someone from escaping is no more evil than locking them up. When a person is convicted of a crime many if not all of their rights are suspended.


revaar wrote:
Also, just to note: You don't HAVE to be caster to craft magic items. It just takes more effort.

If magic never developed even the idea of magic items would not be there. I don’t see how you are going to have scrolls, wands and staves in a world of science. In a world where everyone is deaf people will not learn to sing.


Orfamay Quest wrote:
Ciaran Barnes wrote:
What will the party do when faced with a curse, blindness, or level drain?

Scrolls. Lots of scrolls.

Embrace the magic item shop; you'll need it. There's nothing that a fighter can't face given enough scrolls of the appropriate type, but you're not going to be able to assume that the fighter can solve any problems unless he's got regular access to magic items.

If the world does not have spell casters there is no one to create the scrolls. The same is true for any magic items. This means that UMD does not exist. Without magic some skills will simply not be developed.


Alchemist and Investigators get extracts which are the same as spells. If you want no magic you should also remove these classes. The hunter also gets druid spells so should also be removed. Monks and spell less paladins have significant magical abilities. If you allow those classes chances are that they will become the new magic users.

The biggest problem is going to be healing. Keep in mind that healing is more than just HP. Condition removal is pretty important and without magic it is impossible. Also without magic who is creating the magic items. The game assumes that characters will be appropriately equipped for their level. If there are no magic items besides potions you are going to have to adjust everything.

What exactly are you trying to do in this game? It is pretty hard to give any advice without knowing that.


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I seem to remember that the starting age for aasimars listed in the book was a mistake. The developers stated that they have normal human lifespan. I am not sure where this was, but I think it was by James Jacob who stated this.


LazarX wrote:
Mysterious Stranger wrote:
Elven weapon familiarity means that every elf has spent a lot of time practicing with weapons. Unfortunately there are no good alternative traits for martial classes and there are not a lot of exotic elven weapons. Personally I think this is something that should be addressed.
I think it's addressed adequately enough when you take into account that even the lowliest Elf commoner is proficient with longsword, rapier, and both the normal and composite forms of long and shortbow. Those even slightly martially inclined are even proficient in the curved blade as well.

That is kind of my point. Rangers and fighters are already proficient with these weapons and the only thing they get is the elven curve blade. Dwarves get a ton of exotic weapons. I think there should be more exotic elven weapons. Maybe some cool bows or other unusual weapons. There should be a better alternative racial trait for martials.


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I think the only time when there is a problem with starting ages are when someone has a specific backstory and fails to take into account that their character is an elf. I don’t buy into the idea that elves mature at the same rate until adolescence and then spend decades reaching mental maturity. I figure that elves mature slower than a human, but part of the elf starting age is learning all the elven culture and training in the things they get for being an elf.

Let’s break down the Elven racial traits and give a reason for them. The following are my own interpolations of the reasons and not in any way official doctrine.

The reason elves get a +2 INT is because they value learning and creativity. Since all craft skills, and knowledge skills with a DC of 10 or less can be used untrained that means that elves are better at these things than humans. To me this means that all elves raised in an elven culture have a lot of formal education. They have spent a lot of time learning and also involved in artistic endeavors.

The reason Elves get a +2 DEX is because they spend a lot of time playing games. Most of these games are based on agility and dexterity so elves develop their reflexes. They also spend a lot of time on mental games which is another reason for the +2 INT.

The reason Elves get a -2 CON is because they are isolated and protected during childhood. Elves are a very magical race and use this and their own isolation to protect their homes so there is less danger. They also have good healers even without using magic so they are less exposed to disease and therefor more susceptible to it.

Elven magic is because all elves are giving training in magic. I would suggest trading out this trait for non-spell casters who do not plan on picking up a spell casting class. Envoy, or Silent Hunter make the most sense. The ability for a non-spell caster to cast even a limited number of spells is a major advantage and this will take a long time to learn.

Elven weapon familiarity means that every elf has spent a lot of time practicing with weapons. Unfortunately there are no good alternative traits for martial classes and there are not a lot of exotic elven weapons. Personally I think this is something that should be addressed.

Keen senses come from belonging to a culture that routinely hides their settlements. Elves tend to build their dwellings to fit in with the surroundings. Their language is very tonal and full of subtleties that non-elves may not be able to distinguish. The artwork is equally subtle using shades of color that are also difficult to distinguish.

Elven Immunities come from living in a society where magic is common. Elves value freedom and recognize that many enchantments take away this freedom so condition their children to resist enchantments by exposing them to these types of spells. They do the same for sleep spells for military purposes. Elves commonly use sleep as a means of defense so if they are immune to it, they can safely use it without fear of affecting their own people.

Low light vision seems to be a purely physical trait, as the only way to change it seems to be born of a racial stock that has it. The only other purely physical trait seems to be the elven life span. This is why I would have problems with someone wanting to play a 20 year old elf. About the only time I have seen this is when someone wants to play an elf without worrying about the race. They usually want all the benefits of being an elf, but want to ignore the rest.

If someone wanted to play an elf captured as a child I would say he need to forfeit most if not all of the elven racial traits. The earlier he is captured the more he forfeits. If he just wants to be slightly younger than most elves that is fine, so say around 90 to 100 years old would not be a problem.


Keep in mind that humans are not the baseline for races like they were in other editions. Humans have their own advantages and are the dominant race in most campaigns because of these traits. When you are comparing the races look at the theoretical base race. This would be someone with no racial traits.

Of all the standard races Elves are the only one to get a bonus to INT. True Humans, Half Elves, and Half Orcs can choose to get a bonus, but not all of them get it. Humans are supposed to be diverse and when a human chooses to gain the bonus to INT it is probably because of natural genius rather than culture. Half Elves and Half orcs get this from their human parents.

Actually elves do start knowing more than other races. They get a +2 INT so start with 1 more skill point and +1 on all INT based skills. They have also been trained in magic as they get a +2 on caster level checks to overcome spell resistance and +2 on spell craft to identify magic items. They trained in the use of 4 weapons. They are also trained observers getting a +2 bonus on perception. Of all the racial traits the only one that seems to be purely physical is low light vision.

Compare a baseline 1st level commoner to an elf 1st level commoner and you see they have a lot more they can do. The baseline commoner has 10 in all stats, the elf has a 12 INT, and DEX, but has a 8 in CON, all other stats are 10. The Baseline commoner gets 3 skills and knows 1 language; the Elf gets 4 skills and knows 3 languages. The Elf gets +2 Perception and is better at any craft he picks up due to his INT. The baseline commoner uses a club or a dagger in combat, while the elf is using a long sword and a long bow. The elf also traded out the elf magic for Envoy since he is not a caster. He can cast 3 0 level spells and 1 1st level spell per day. He also gets +2 saves vs Enchantments.

So the starting elf commoner gets more skills and is better at them than the baseline. He speaks more languages, and spots things a lot better. He uses good weapons and has the ability to cast spells. It sounds like this character spent a lot of time training with weapons and magic. How long does it take a normal character to learn to cast spells? How long does it take to become proficient in martial weapon?

A starting elf wizard gets the equivalent of 6 feats. 4 weapon proficiencies, spell penetration, and +2 with 2 skills. If you are playing a character that gets martial weapons as a class feature then you don’t get as much, but all elves can use these weapons.


At low level your best bang for the buck will be magic missile. Not having to roll to hit and affecting non corporeal targets means it is never really useless. Even at higher levels it can be used to finish off a foe with only a few HP left.

Since a sorcerer does not get a lot of spells wands are his bread and butter. Even some 0 level wands may be useful if you don’t have the spell on your list, or another caster does not have it. I am assuming you have the staples like detect magic and some sort of light.

Disrupt Undead is great when facing undead.
Mending will allow you to fix all the sundered items

After you gain a couple of levels the following wands will also prove worthwhile. Many will aid the party as a whole so the cost may be split.

Detect Secret Doors lasts for 1 Min which should be enough time to check a room where you know there is a secret door but no one managed to find.

Endure Elements lasts for 24 hours so is a must have in a desert or cold environment.

Mage armor lasts for one hour so is great if you have some warning. If you have a monk in the party he will love you.

Magic Aura is great for hiding the aura of magic items.

Shield is good because most combat don’t last longer than a minute.

Theft Ward last a full day so is great to protect items you have been sent to get.

True strike works well as a wand sine it effects your next attack and last until the end of your next turn.


I was actually looking at Greater Thunderstomp. I was looking at it for a 12th level Bloodrager. If I had to use the caster level and CHA it would be at +15. His normal CMB is around 24 and it would be able to trip huge creatures while he has Enlarge Person running.


The Command Undead feat does qualify. The description of the feat even references the feat.

Benefit: When you cast animate dead or use the Command Undead feat, you are considered to be four levels higher when determining the number of Hit Dice you animate. When you cast command undead, your duration is doubled.


It says in the description of the spell you may use your caster level and casting stat in place of your CMB. Since a raging Bloodrager’s CMB is probably higher can I use that instead of the caster level check?


Assuming you have a decent CHA then Divine Protection is a great feat for a cleric. Getting CHA to saves is extremely useful. As long as you have at least a 14 CHA it is getting 3 feats for the price of one. I would take it at 5th which is the soonest you can qualify for it.


Define class feature. If you are asking if an ex paladin loses the +3 bonus to diplomacy being a class skill then no.


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Just make sure the characters are different enough that there is no overlap. I person I know is very good at this. He would wear a hat and take it on and put it back on depending on which character he was playing. The best example of role playing I have ever seen is when he got into a heated argument with himself.


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Inquisitor, Bard, Hunter, Magus

All have medium BAB, all have up to level 6 spells, all have special abilities, and all have good skills. 3 out of the 4 have some healing so the healing is spread out among the party. Both the hunter and inquisitor get bonus teamwork feats and can change them as needed. Have the Magus take a trait to get stealth as a class skill and then the whole group will have good stealth. Between the bard and the inquisitor they will easily be able to identify any monster they come against. Both the bard and the magus have UMD as a class skill so any spell that is not on one of the lists can be used from a scroll, or wand.


Bacon666 wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:

It takes rounds to determine these things, requires concentration, and is only a 60ft Cone.

Detect spells have limits, that, for some reason, DMs often overlook, and spoil their own fun.

I have had to remind, and remind, and remind, and remind, many a player, and DM, how the Detect spells work.

This... So much this...

My problem is NOT the detect spells... It's noncasters ability to protect themselves against detection...

Any char can up their ac to protection
Any char can up their saves...
Any char can up a skill for opposed rolls
Casters, and only casters can protect their alignment, or the aura of their gear...

Anyone can attack you so everyone needs to be able to defend against attack.

Saves are used against many non-magical affects so everyone needs to be able to resist these.

All characters have skills so the ability to oppose them is also needed.

Only casters are able to cast detect spells so not everyone one needs to be able to counter them.

There seem be the idea that everyone in the world is a player class, and that casters are common. The vast majority of the people encountered are supposed to be NPC classes. The only NPC class that gets spells is the adept and even they should be fairly uncommon. Even fighters and rogues are supposed to be a cut above normal. The town guards are warriors not fighters. The common thief is probably an expert at best. The village priest is probably going to also be an expert, or an adept at best.

Also most people are supposed to be lower than 6th level. There also seems to be the idea that the world is filled with high level characters. In a typical city probably only a hand full of people will be 5th level and above. Those that are will tend to be well known and established characters. They will be the leaders of the community instead of the ordinary citizens. These are they type of people who spent years developing their power and influence.

In a world where the gods do intervene and alignment actually means something being evil is not necessarily looked on as being a bad thing. In a society that worships an evil god evil it will be quite common. In our world no one wants to be thought of as evil, but in Cheliax where the state religion is worshiping Asmodeus it is probably quite common. Actually in Cheliax being detected as good may actually be considered bad.

In order to be evil you actually need to do evil things not just think evil thoughts. Anyone powerful enough to have a detectable aura probably has a reputation for that alignment. A little digging will probably uncover scandals and rumors about the person.


I was reading the sacred fist archetype and noticed that the AC bonus you get for leveling up is a deflection bonus. This seems to really penalize the sacred fist because it means that unlike the monks AC bonus it does not stack with things like protections from evil, shield of faith, or rings of protection. What where the developers thinking? It does not make sense that they are the only class in that gets a deflection bonus as a class ability. All other classes that get an AC bonus are either an untyped bonus or a dodge bonus. In either case they stack with all other bonuses.

I think this should be changed to an untyped bonus like the monk gets.


Bullied gives you a +1 on attack of opportunities with unarmed strike.


Ferocious Resolve is great for someone who can heal themselves. Any Magical healing stops the bleeding. It works really well if you have judgment of healing going. Without that you would need to use a healing spell which was why I suggested making sure you have cure light wounds. If you are unconscious you can’t heal yourself.

With an inquisitor you need to pick your deity because it determines what domains and weapons you can use. The inquisitor gets proficiency with the favored weapon of the deity. You already have proficiency with most ranged weapons and simple weapons. Unless you are going for a race that gets proficiency in a good melee weapon you need to either go with a ranged weapon, or pick a deity with a good favored weapon. The half orc gets proficiency with the falchion and great axe which is another reason they make good inquisitors.

If you want to be the party face then either the conversion or heresy inquisitions are good. Conversion allows you to use your WIS modifier instead of CHA modifier for bluff, diplomacy and intimidate, and grants a short term dominate person at 8th level. Heresy allows you to use your WIS modify for bluff and intimidate, but not diplomacy, but at 4th you get to roll twice for bluff, diplomacy, or stealth and take the better results. Heresy also allows you to use a short term bestow curse at 8thlevel.

Sanctified slayer gives up judgments for studied target and later sneak attack. I would think carefully about giving up judgments. Judgments are a lot more versatile than sneak attack, and getting sneak attack is often difficult. If you are more concerned with fighting a lot of weaker opponents over the course of the day, then studied target may be better. If you are expecting to face a few big challenges with lots of different abilities judgments are a lot better.


A caster Inquisitor is certainly possible, but he is not going to be good as an offensive caster. The inquisitors spell list is full of utility and buff spell, not offensive spells. The few low level offensives spells the inquisitor gets don’t scale well as you level up. Cause Fear for example is a good spell at 1st level, but is useless at 10th. For a cleric this is not a problem because he simply memorizes another spell after Cause Fear is no longer useful. The inquisitor does not have that option, he only knows a certain amount of spells period. True he can swap out spells starting at 5th, but he can only do that for a limited number of spells. If he takes too many spells that do not scale he ends up with many useless spells.

Forbid action only works for 1 round so your 10th level inquisitor spent your round and one of your spells to prevent a single target from performing a specific action. Nothing in the spell prevents him from performing another action. In the right circumstance this can be very useful, but compare that to Wizard casting charm person, or magic missile and you realize how weak it is. So you tell the BBEG not to attack and instead he summons up a monster, or activates a defense.


The strongest race for an inquisitor is half orc. Humans run a close second due to the alternative favored class bonus, but a half orc also has access to the human favored class bonus so in the end they come out ahead. Getting proficiency in falchion and great axe allows them to pick a deity with a less then optimal favored weapon and still have a good melee weapon. They are also the only ones with access to the feat Ferocious Resolve.

For the most part the build I posted earlier would work well as a sacred slayer. Who was the deity you chose? Also what did you want the focus of the character to be? Losing the healing judgment means you no longer have a way to automatically heal yourself so make sure you get cure light wounds as one of your 1st level spells.


The inquisitor simply does not have enough offensive spells to make this a viable build. The only 1st level spell they have that does more than 1d6 points of damage is Ear-Piercing Scream which still only does a maximum of 5d6 to a single target at level 10. The best 2nd level offensive spell they have is Blistering Invective and the ability to demoralize everyone in a 30’ radius is more important than the 1d10 damage. Starting at 3rd level you get some decent damaging spells but usually only one per spell level. Considering that Inquisitors gain new spell levels every 3 levels instead of every 2 this means puts them even further behind. Having to wait till 7th level to get Searing Light when the cleric got it at 5th makes it even worse.

Since an inquisitor also gets a limited number of spells know this makes it even harder. The inquisitor’s spell list does not offer enough versatility of offense spells to be able to deal with different types of foes. Many of their direct damage spells deal fire damage, and the indirect spells are usually limited to certain targets.


If he wants to a magical stealth based character then maybe an Archeologist bard is what he should look at. They do not get sneak attack but they have some very good spells that fit the ninja magic theme. Many of their spells deal with avoiding detection, illusion, enchantments and movement all things a magical ninja should be able to do. Between archeologist luck and heroism they are decent in combat. The also get rogue talents so that means you can get things like fast stealth. Someone able to turn invisible and move at 60’ per round is hard to catch. Throw in spells like nondetection and dimension door and they can infiltrate anywhere. Alter self allows them to change into other people. He also will have one of the best perception rolls in the game. Archeologists get a straight bonus to perception not the limited one rogues get.

This assumes he wants to focus more on the magical aspect than combat. If he wants to be a combat focused ninja with more limited magic an inquisitor is probably better. While the get some of the same spells many of them are focused more on investigation and have a more religious feel.


Another alternative is to go with a DEX based Slayer and use slashing grace and two weapon fighting. Dip one level in swashbuckler to pick up swashbucklers finesse. Take the next 6 levels in slayer using your favored class bonus to pick up an extra slayer talent. Also use ranger combat style to get two weapon fighting, and improved two weapon fighting. By 10th level you will be +19/+14/+19/+14 with studied target and doing 1d8+13 damage and if you are able to sneak attack you will be doing an extra 3d6 damage per hit. This assumes that you get a +4 belt of dexterity and have at least a +1 weapon in each hand.


You may want to look at the slayer from the ACG instead a multiclass rogue/ranger. It gives you everything you need without having to multiclass and more. Focus on STR instead of DEX and use the slayer talents to get two weapon fighting. If you go to 6th level Slayer you can even pickup improved two weapon fighting.


Fast Stealth is always useful. Being able to move a full speed when using stealth allows is very useful for an assassin. If you can’t get to them you can’t kill them.

Another idea is to take Terrain Mastery so you can pick up Slayers Camouflage at 10th.


I use the point buy system out of the book, but use a 25pt buy. I know the standard is supposed to be 15 and PFS uses 20 but I like to be able to throw greater challenges at my players. If a player wants to dump one or more stats that is ok, but I make sure they realize I will be using your low stats against you.

For example if you dump CHA people are going to react negatively towards you even if you have a good diplomacy. I consider skills to be something that is actively used, not a passive bonus. I often use straight stat checks for some situations including initial attitude. If you are doing a good job of roleplaying the dump stat I usually don’t need to do much, but if you are ignoring it I will do take appropriate adjustments. The character with a low CHA and good diplomacy is like a greasy used car salesman who can sell you anything, but you still would not want as your buddy.


This is assuming that he has Divine Favor running and is using the Sacred Healing Judgment. You literly have to kill him to stop him. In addition to the fast healing he can also cast cure light wounds on himself to make him even more difficult to take down.

He dumped CHA completely but still has every social skill at +6 and only had to put one point into it to get it. He has a +8 to identify monsters and an insane intimidate. The reason I took Blistering Invective was to be able to demoralize all opponents within 30’ of him.

Half-orc inquisitor of Irori 4 (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Player's Guide 38)
LN Medium humanoid (human, orc)
Init +4; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +8
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Defense
--------------------
AC 19, touch 12, flat-footed 17 (+7 armor, +2 Dex)
hp 31 (4d8+8)
Fort +6, Ref +3, Will +6
Defensive Abilities ferocity, orc ferocity
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Offense
--------------------
Speed 20 ft.
Melee +1 falchion +11 (2d4+9/18-20)
Ranged mwk composite longbow +9 (1d8+6/×3)
Special Attacks judgment 2/day
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 4th; concentration +2)
At will—detect alignment
Inquisitor Spells Known (CL 4th; concentration +6):
2nd (2/day)—blistering invective{super}UC{/super} (DC 14), invisibility
1st (4/day)—cure light wounds, divine favor, expeditious retreat, true strike
0 (at will)—detect magic, disrupt undead, guidance, light, sift{super}APG{/super}, stabilize
Domain Conversion Inquisition
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 18, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 15, Cha 7
Base Atk +3; CMB +7; CMD 19
Feats Ferocious Resolve[ARG], Intimidating Prowess, Precise Strike[APG]
Traits armor expert, wisdom in the flesh
Skills Bluff +6, Diplomacy +6, Disguise +6, Intimidate +19, Knowledge (arcana) +4, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +4, Knowledge (nature) +4, Knowledge (planes) +4, Knowledge (religion) +4, Perception +8, Ride +4, Sense Motive +11, Spellcraft +4, Stealth +4, Survival +6, Swim +6; Racial Modifiers +2 Intimidate
Languages Common, Orc
SQ monster lore +4, orc blood, weapon familiarity, solo tactics, stern gaze +2, track +2
Other Gear +1 agile breastplate, +1 falchion, mwk composite longbow, 1,275 gp
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Armor Expert -1 Armor check penalty.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Detect Alignment (At will) (Sp) Detect chaos, evil, good, or law at will.
Ferocity (Ex) Fight without penalty even while disabled or dying.
Inquisitor Domain (Conversion Inquisition) Deities: Any deity.

Granted Powers: You are a powerful persuader. A honeyed tongue empowered by divine argumentation sways the indifferent and adversarial to your side.
Judgment (2/day) (Su) Variable bonuses increase as the combat continues.
Monster Lore +4 (Ex) +4 to Knowledge checks when identifying the weaknessess of creatures.
Orc Blood Half-orcs count as both humans and orcs for any effect related to race.
Orc Ferocity (1/day) If brought below 0 Hp, can act as though disabled for 1 rd.
Precise Strike +1d6 precision damage for melee attacks if you and an ally with this feat flank the same target.
Solo Tactics (Ex) Count Teamwork feats as if your allies had the same ones.
Track +2 Add the listed bonus to survival checks made to track.
Wisdom in the Flesh (Disguise) Disguise becomes a Wisdom-based, class skill.


The inquisitor is a very strong class. What people are saying is that it is not the strongest in any one thing. The inquisitor is a close second in almost every category. He is not the strongest at melee damage, but comes close, he is not the strongest spell caster, but is not that much below the top casters. The same is true with almost everything else.

Having no weakness also makes for a very strong character. A fighter can be shut down with a spell targeting will save, a wizard can be shut down by preventing him from casting, but it is almost impossible to shut down an inquisitor. Even when he is out of spells and other resources he can still fall back on the fact he is a ¾ BAB class that can use decent armor.

Another thing that makes the inquisitor powerful is that most, if not all his abilities stack. Judgments are a sacred bonus, he can get both moral and luck bonuses from spells. This allows him to go nova like no one else.

I would rate an inquisitor as a tier 1 class just because he has so much going for him. At high levels the full 9 level casters may pull ahead a bit. Chose a race that favored class bonus can increase your spells known and you will have a very strong character.


Eltacolibre wrote:
Deylinarr wrote:
Has there been an FAQ or anything that says the universal monster rule you're quoting applies to SLAs of someone with class levels? Makes sense to have a default for classless monsters but I'm not following the logic of why that would be the same for abilities granted by a class?

It's not just a monster rule, that's just how spell like abilities work, unless stated otherwise, which some classes do mention. SLA rule appears also in the core rulebook.

I just looked up the spell like ability in core rule book and it does not say anything about it being charisma based. The only place I can find that it mentions charisma is in the Bestiary under the universal monster rules.


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In addition to everything else people have listed inquisitors are actually one of the best skill monkeys in the game. The bonus to sense motive and a good wisdom means they are almost impossible to lie to. Throw in the ability to discern lies and they are a walking lie detector. They can track better than a ranger because they will usually have a higher WIS. The bonus to intimidate when used with the feat corngun smash means that anyone they hit is shaken. Monster lore allows them to add WIS to identifying monsters, and they can take the feat improved monster lore to get their rolls higher than a bard.

The ability to detect any alignment not just good is really helpful. Combine that with good perception and sense motive and they are pretty hard to fool. If they take the conversion inquisition they can dump CHA and still be the party face.

Their spell lest is great. Pick mostly buffs and utility spells and your versatility is insane. Having the healing spells on your spell list allows you to use wands and scrolls to fill the role of healer. Invisibility and knock means that you are a better rogue than the rogue. Take a trait to get disable device as a class skill to deal with mundane traps and use dispel magic for magical traps. The 0 level spell sift allows you to search an area from 30’ away. Detect magic will allow you to figure out if the trap is magical before you even try. Guidance gives you a +1 on any skill you want. Detect thoughts can be used to read surface thoughts making inquisitors even better at getting information.

There was a whole thread going on whether it is evil for an inquisitor to torture people, but they don’t really even need to. They have so many ways to gain information without having to torture that even evil inquisitors probably don’t have to bother.


I usually keep the aging rules including the starting ages. To me it gives the various races different world views. Elves should be more than just humans with pointy ears and a list of racial abilities. Since PC are supposed to be different I have no problem if they want to change things around a bit.

If you want to start out as a younger elf that is fine with me and I do not require you to take the young adjustments. But if a player wants to start out at an older age and wants the stat adjustments I am fine with that too. I would even let someone take the aging adjustments without actually being older as long as they had a backstory to explain it. For example if someone wanted to play a character like Elric or Raistlin I would be fine with them taking aging adjustments.


I can understand you view, but don’t see what the problem is. The +3 INT is great for a wizard, but having to take -6 on DEX and CON more than make up for it. You are getting at least a -3 penalty on HP per level, AC, and on your worst two saves. The +1 to will saves and some skills don’t really make up for what you lose.


Everyone seems to forget that any character can purchase an animal with gold. True it does not advance as you level up so tends to be quite frail and only useful for a limited time. A hawk costs a mere 18 gold which could be in the budget for a first level character. At first level it has about the same stats as the animal companion. At 2nd level the animal companion progresses and gains on the average an additional 4 HP for a total of 8 HP. It does not progress at 3rd level and gains full HP at 4th. A normal ranger gets his animal companion at 4th and at this point has about 11 HP and is quite frail. The normal ranger can pick up boon companion at 5th to get his companion up to full druid progression. At 6th level the normal ranger is getting his second combat feat, which the falconer does not get.

So at first level the falcon is about the same. At second and third level the falconer’s companion is slightly better. By 4th level the falconer’s companion is substantially better. At 5th level both the companions are identical. And at 6th level the normal ranger is getting an extra arrow at full BAB. Share spell does not matter until 4th level when a ranger actually gets spells.

The falconer needs to have a DEX of at least 17, and have point blank shot to even qualify for manyshot. He also cannot get this before 7th level because that is the first feat he has after qualifying for it. So at this point the falconer is down a feat from the normal ranger, and also has less STR because he needed to spend the points on DEX. The original poster stated he wanted to be a switch hitter not an archery focused ranger. The switch hitter usual favors STR above DEX so may have trouble qualifying for many shot.

In any case the falcon cannot take the trick hunting because hunting requires scent which he does not have. He can take all the individual tricks in hunting except track.

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