Mothman's page

What would be the parties direct and specific goal?

What would they need to actually do to save Adimarchus?

How would they enter this nightmare realm of insanity?

What would be the direct result of finding/saving Adimarchus in this nightmare?

Any ideas are welcome for at the very least they generate further ideas :)

Thanks

Delvesdeep

[b]

Delvesdeep,

Some ideas I came up with based on this discussion, and your questions;

As I see it, the party’s ultimate goal would be much the same as in the official scenario: to end the threat posed by Adimarchus and his madness to Cauldron (and the world). However, there may be two (or three) options for achieving this.
Option 1: fighting and killing Adimarchus much as detailed in the adventure path.
Option 2: finding a way to restore Adimarchus to sanity and “goodness”.
(Possible) Option 3: finding a way to restore Adimarchus to sanity and restore him as the ruler of Occipitus – so he’ll forget about Cauldron and concentrate on getting his revenge on Grazzt (after all, the designs on Cauldron and the material plane always seemed to be a goal of the Cagewrights and/or the demondands rather than Adimarchus).

I like the idea of restoring his sanity by travelling into his psyche or dreams. Perhaps rather than having two physical forms that he can switch between (the angelic and demonic forms), Adimarchus physically appears as the angelic form, but the demonic form exists within his mind and represents his madness and/or evilness. A way of restoring him to sanity may be to battle the demonic Adimarchus within his dreams – slaying that representation restores him to sanity (and whether it also effects his alignment is up to you to decide). Since battling this one form would not be as challenging an encounter as an Adimarchus that can switch between the forms, you may need to increase the power of the demonic form, or give it allies within the dream (other demons? Dream elementals? Creatures from Eberrons Nightmare realm?).

Instead or as well as the battle with Adimarchus’ madness personified, there may be a roleplaying sequence required where the players must interact with Adimarchus and convince him that there is a reason to return to sanity – love, revenge, the joy of life, whatever. Probably this sequence could only happen after they slay the demonic form.

Entering the nightmare realm may follow the rules for the Plane of Dreams in Manual of the Planes (I think there is a spell that lets you travel there, there's a feat - Lucid Dreaming - that lets you take more control of things in your dreams, and you may be able to get there through the Astral Plane I think. But better might be a story specific way of entering, such as a character with the Smoking Eye template or the Dream haunted trait might be able to enter the nightmare (and bring the other characters along) on locking eyes with Adimarchus, or rendering his angelic form unconscious or some-such.

The direct result of saving Adimarchus? His madness ends. The way I see it, Adimarchus, whether good or evil, never really had designs on Cauldron - this was the Cagewrights, partly inspired by Adimarchus' captivity and madness. End the insanity (which DOES threaten Cauldron and the Prime material) and you end the threat. Whether Adimarchus then seeks revenge on Grazzt, persues love, or seeks redemption is up to him (or you, or your players). Of course, with his madness ended, if he remains evil, the players may decide to end this evil threat whether or not he intends immediate harm to them or Cauldron.

As an interesting aside, perhaps it has always been in Adimarchus' power to destroy the cage that holds him, if only his insanity could be ended. Only a demon lord or someone more powerful can break the cage. The Smoking Eye template does not give a character that power, but the power to enter Adimarchus' nightmare and possibly end his insanity. Just a thought...

walter mcwilliams wrote:

I would actually like to see the messageboards split in half to represent a DM / Players split.

Is this really even a resource for players? I mean... the vast majority of people here are looking for help running the SCAP. Personally, I think that any player that comes to these boards is looking for trouble.

I disagree, there's many reasons for players and DMs alike to be on these boards, or Paizo's website. And even if you ARE playing in one game, doesn't mean you're not DMing another, and may inadvertently come across this thread title.

PLUS, every time one of us replies to this, the title comes up on the main Paizo page, and while I trust my players not to go looking through the Shackled City part of the boards, I can hardly ban them from looking at the home page and maybe seeing the title.

And even though most of my players probably wouldnt abuse the information if they make the connection, it will still take away what I hope may be one of the big surprises of the campaign.

I don't fault the original poster for not realising this, but it would be nice if the title could be changed.

That's just horrible!!! ;)

Um .... it was a BAD werewolf?

NOT that I have anything against werewolves ya know? They're people too! (mostly...)

We had a game a little while back where the 2nd level party came up against a werewolf, with no silver weapons to speak of (they werent actually supposed to kill it...)

Well, the half orc barbarian ended up fighting it by hitting it with a heavy wooden door he had ripped off its hinges earlier in the game. Meanwhile, the dwarven fighter spent a couple of rounds stabbing silver coins with the pointy ends his crossbow bolts, then firing his improvised silver weapons at the creature.

One of my regular players has this fantastic combination of making dumb decisions in game, but getting out of them with amazing dice rolls. In fact, his ability to pull out a natural twenty just when its needed most would make me think he's somehow cheating if I didnt watch his rolls so closely.

Anyway, this guy is playing an elf rogue in my current Shackled City campaign. During life's bazaar, he agreed to stay, alone, with the polymorphed otyugh / ogre gaurding the Malachite Fortress, after the bard had convinced the ogre to let the rest of them pass - "but the elf gotta stay here with me - them hobgoblins wont like him to go any further".

So as soon as the rest of the party is gone, the ogre starts eyeing the elf with a nasty glint in his eye. The elf (Alethian - 3rd level rogue) gets nervous, bluffs the ogre ("Look over there!") and hides behind a pile of junk ... but its a small room and it wont take the ogre long to find him. So Alethian nocks his bow and declares "I'm gonna go Legolas on his *ss - I'll try to shoot him in the leg, slow him down." He jumps out from his hiding place, fires his bow - and rolls a 20, then confirms the critical! 5d6 later, I ruled that the arrow had indeed slowed the ogre down - and Alethian, aka Legolas, kept peppering the beast with arrows, taking him down before he could get within swiping range.

EP Healy wrote:

James Jacobs wrote:

Larissa Vanderboren was a druid.

SWW states that the Vanderboren family traditionally revered Fharlanghn. As a druid, did Larissa lean toward any given deity? It would be interesting to have her devoted to a nature god of the sea - maybe she and Verik aren't dead after all...

Although it's unusual for a druid, Larissa worshiped Fharlanghn. Her husband did as well.

Shensen, the druid (mostly) from SCAP also presumably worshipped Fharlanghn ... maybe its a regional thing. Or maybe its a James Jacobs thing... ;-)

I read The Sea Wyvern's Wake and The Swords of Dragonslake over the weekend - and - expectations met! Both very enjoyable adventures to read (and im sure to DM ... eventually).

Mr Pett, well done on turning what could be a very "quick" journey (ok, you sail south for three months, until one evening a storm brews up...) or a very boring one (day 3, no encounter in the morning .... no encounter in the afternoon ... however, that evening your ship is attacked by 1d8 Sahuagin) and turning it into an engaging adventure with some interesting NPCs, a variety of encounters and one very cool / creepy one at Journey's End - I DO like the Aliens "theme"... Oh, and all those Stye's references, who knew there was such trade between Sasserine and the Styes! Out of interest, in your campaign is the Styes a town in its own right, or part of a larger city?

Mr Logue, really enjoyed the Swords of Dragonslake too, its great to see a "roleplaying" and/or investigation adventure at a higher level (rather than being relagated to levels 1-3 as normal). I think my group will really get into this one when we have a chance to play it. Also liked the sort of moral ambiguities presented ... sure Isadora and Janton are evil, and doing a Very Bad Thing, but how will my players react to what happened 13 years ago....? and who will they side with?

And the two most famous actors in Talantier? Priceless....
One question, what's the theatrical superstition about the number 8? (13 I get more) - or is this simply an editorial ... erm, error on the Night Raven map legend?

"Raiders of Black Ice" by Wolfgang Baur (Dungeon 115).

Thats the one! Very good adventure ... and good sequel too!

FINALLY got issue 141 last night ... the suspense has been killing me.

Now I just hope all this discussion hasn't built up my expectations too high .... those two adventures had better be pretty darn good!

Well, that's the problem with avatars provided by board itself. But I don't complain since I usually don't bother to get an avatar...

BTW, I can't remember if I have seen my avatar anywhere either...looks some kind of mermaid? Anyone can help?

She's some type of water fey (a Rusalka i think?) from that Blackmoor adventure in Dungeon where the PCs track a group of Frost Folk onto a glacier. The Land of Black Ice I think.

Thanks delvesdeep. Yes, I'm toying with the idea of having the Cagewrights work behind the scenes to help the PCs get rid of the inconvenience this particular Ebon Triad cell is turning out to be. It is they who give Artus Shemwick the information about Triel lairing in the Kopru Ruins, who in turn sells this information to the PCs.

That also ties up the loose end of how the informant came by the information when Triel has been keeping it so secret.

While the Cagewrights could easily defeat Triel and her band, its more their style to have someone else do their dirty work, and besides, they dont want to anger all the other Ebon Triad cells in the area who have been making Soul Cages for them, that could turn into a major inconvenience...

Delvesdeep, I read your idea of having Skylar been betrothed to Triel on a previous thread, and am considering using this idea in my own game as a means of having the party form an attachment to him before the tax riot - its a nice link. But I dont think I'll have him supply them with the Kopru Ruins location, but ask to tag along when / if he hears that the party are going after Triel (As one of my players is likely to inquire about her past with the Town Watch).

So I'll soon be running Flood Season for the second time around, and a question occurs to me - what do the Cagewrights think about Triel snatching the wands and holding the city to ransom (or potentially let substantial parts of it flood)?

Maybe they dont much care - they intend to do a lot worse to the town in days to come, and dont care what happens to it in the meantime.

MAybe they revel in the evilness of this act, the chaos it will cause, and in fact endorse it for weakening the peoples' faith in their churches.

But maybe some Cagewrights (or their close allies) wont much like it. Vhalantru wants to rule the town after the Carceri gate is open, does he want his "property" damaged before then? A number of Cagewrights live in the town, how would they feel about their own estates being threatened? (well, before they ship everything out prior to Foundation of Flame I suppose...). Embril never wanted her church to fund the wands, but does she really want the city to flood, and the people to blame the churches (including her own), or did she just want to financially weaken the church of St Cuthbert? Would the Cagerights be concerned that heroes searching for the wands may stumble upon some of their own schemes in the area?

And if they are concerned, how would they react?

Now Im running the adventures from the magazines, so maybe this question is answered in the HC - but does anyone out there know the official answer? Or what are you thoughts on the matter?

Maybe slightly less cliched than the characters finding a diary would be that after Adimarchus' possesion attempt on the Smoking Eye or Dream Haunted character, that character begins channeling Adimarchus more directly when he / she dreams.

No more vague dreams and symbolic imagery, but now when the charcter sleeps Adimarchus' mad ramblings actually issue from his / her mouth.

Someone should notice this sleep talking soon enough, and over the next several nights they can pick up the gist of Adimarchus' (and the Cagewrights) plans.

I'm from Sydney

I'm a Melbournian. From the northeast suburbs - think Doncaster, Eltham, Greenborough and you are getting close.

I had the same group for 20 years or so but would like to invite another one or two into the mix if anyone is vaguely interested and willing to travel to my parts.

Delvesdeep

P.S. We're currently playing SCAP.

Delvesdeep, based on the stuff Ive seen you post here and on RPGenius I'd love to join your game .... but I think the commute might kill me ;-)

And besides, Im running SCAP myself...

Hey, I hope your game goes well on Friday!

Reading Life's Bazaar in Dungeon was what made me go out and buy the 3rd edition books, and while my first attempt at running the campaign died a few adventures in due mainly to player attrition (moving interstate, having babies, things like that), Ive fairly recently re-started the campaign with some new players (including a first time gamer). We are trying to find a free day to begin Flood Season in the next couple of weeks - looking forward to it!

Hope the experience is a great one for you and all your players, Im fairly sure they'll all enjoy Life's Bazaar - we did!

Looks like an ethereal filcher got the last post I tried to put up on this thread....

Anyway, I really enjoy the roleplaying aspect of RPGs, and as a DM I love when my players roleplay their characters well too. But as some people have already pointed out, not everyone is really into the roleplaying side of things, and not everyone feels comfortable with it.

Fatespinner, I think you should keep encouraging and rewarding roleplaying as you have been doing, but may have to accept that not all your players are always going to get into it. Try to enjoy the other aspects of the game too, create memorable combat and puzzle type encounters that you and your players will really remember and enjoy - interspersed with plenty of role-playing encounters of course!

Also, keep in mind that "roleplaying" does not have to mean speaking in character all the time - or speaking in funny voices, using props etc. Some people just arent comfortable with this. I'm fine as long as my players generally "Act in character" - try to react to things the way their character would, based on what they have previously conveyed (through way of background, or previous game sessions) about their characters personality and beliefs.

I also think its quite ok for a player to say "My character says..." rather than speaking in character.

One thing that really does annoy me though is lots of OOC discussion during the game - I share your concerns on this 100%. I love socialising with my RPG buddies, but I have a limited time for gaming, and when we organise a session, and I have put in a lot of hard work to prepare the game, I really dont like it when more than half the game time is spent not gaming.

I really try to enforce the "no table talk" rule, but for this to work (without the DM seeming overbearing or "fascist") I find we need to take fairly regular breaks (snack breaks, bathroom breaks etc) at which the inevitable (and fun when theyre not disrupting the game) conversations can take place.

I am guessing all of us Efreeti Overlords of Diabolical Threads look the same to all you mortals :) meaning; mine is probably straight out of the monster manual, but i think he looks better than the guy on the cover of the old dmg.

I think your particular Efreeti Overlord may be a D&D minature ... looks kinda 3d to me anyway

Yeah, it's a Bauriar (?sp too). It was in the Dragon issue that had some Planescape stuff in it. The detailed a few of the factions and what had happened after they were dismantled. That fellow is of the Free League.

I dont think that guy is Free League, he's the leader of an older, long disbanded faction called ... the Brutes? or the Bashers? I dont know, something like that.... sorry, I dont have my magazines with me

...

Now that I think about it, I'm not sure where mine is from. I think it was an issue of polyhedron...

I think he's a dwarven monk / expert (or something) from an Eberron Dungeon adventure, that one where someone's going around knocking off warforged in Sharn

......anybody know who mine is?

Can't remember the guys name, but a famous assassin from Greyhawk lore, featured as a critical threat in dungeon

I don't think I've ever had this many people agree with me ;)

Farewell2kings, I dont think you can go far wrong when complimenting Maps of Mystery or Christopher West's work in general!

As a latecomer to this thread, let me just add my praise for Mr West's work to the chorus. The Maps of Mystery are a huge inspiration to me (especially when my group de-rails the planned adventure and heads off the map, and I need a map and quick adventure idea fast) and certainly a part of what I love about Dungeon mag.

That's interesting. In the Neil Gaiman novel American Gods there's a fat old slavic drunkard god called Czernobog.

I guessed he must have been a real-world deity as Gaiman always uses obscure mythology, but I didn't know anything about him. Now he's a D&D demon?

I think I remember reading that Gaiman said he could find very little information on Czernobog, so just kind of filled in the blanks himself...

Of course there's a long tradition of using real world dieties as D&D demons...

If you are worried about your gaming bogging down if the PCs decide that as heroes they should be cleaning up Diamond Lake, have Allustun (and / or things that the PCs witness themselves) let them know how serious a threat the Spawn of Kyuss in the area might be. Perhaps there have been a rash of Spawn attacks in the surrounding area, or while they were away Spawn have attacked the town and converted a number of folk (who the PCs will now have to deal with).

Allustun stresses that something must be done before it is too late, and there is no town left to save, and his contact in the Free City may have the answers.

Delvesdeep,

One way that i have planned to foreshadow Alurad Sozizan is that at one point the players hear a rumour that a crazy looking, tatooed warrior and a fiendish dire badger (I think thats the correct description - dont have the magazine with me right now) had ambushed a part of adventurers travelling between Sasserine and Cauldron, leaving only one survivor to make it to town (and generate the rumour).

Later in the campaign, the Striders will call back to Sasserine for re-inforcements (sseing that events in Cauldron are getting worse, or thinking that they may be closing in on the Cagewrights), and once again this group will be attacked by Alurad, leaving only one survivor to straggle into Cauldron and tell the Striders (and the PCs) about it.

Oh, and nice adventure by the way. It's got to be at LEAST as good as a Richard Pett or Greg Vaughan written one .... could explain the whole assassin thing....

Thanks Nicolas. That seems like a good way to play it.

The creepier the better as far as Im concerned!

Hi all,

Just finished reading the Bullywug Gambit in Issue 140 this morning, and had some questions regarding savagery .... I hope this doesnt seem picky, or that its been covered before in other threads...

Anyway, when the party reaches Kraken Cove they discover the malformed corpses of a number of slain Savage creatures around the place, but in the description of savage creatures in the appendix it implies that their flesh quickly melts off their bones once they are slain (Death Throes). So I guess the corpses around the place would all be skeletons, or does Death Throes only come into effect under certain cicumstances? Im trying to figure out which would be creepier / better impact, seeing all the malformed corpses, or finding all these piles of bones surrounded by green powder.

The other thing is, when you contract Savage Fever, the description says you break out in a horrible rash and bone spurs, but the description of Harliss Javell (who is suffering from the disease) does not mention these visual effects. Do you all think its better if the PCs can see at a glance that she (or any other sufferers later in the AP) are inflicted, or should they not get this visual clue?

It could be more atmospheric and scary if there is no visual effect until the creature actually succumbs to savagery (and then they rapidly mutate), but will there be any repercussions further down the track if it is played this way?

In response to what Mothman asked a while back, and though I haven't read the adventure, I believe "Man Forever" has some Batman references. What exactly they are, I couldn't tell you.

Not to worry, Sebastian. When I saw Greymalkin Academy, my first thought was the X-Mansion as well. I think equating a school training young wizards with the Mansion based on the name is quite an honest mistake. As I haven't read that adventure yet either, does the gruff character of Nogal that was referenced earlier in the thread actually exist?

Oh thanks, yeah, I didnt get the exact references either.

I just picked up issue 140 last night and just finished reading Greymalkin Academy adventure now. Obviously theres some similarities to Hogwarts (and probably Xaviour's academy too), but I think ANY wizard school is going to be compared to Harry Potter and Hogwarts for years to come. But of course, the idea of wizardly schools and colleges is much older than that.

I'd like to see an adventure based on Unseen University myself ... ;-)

In my opinion, having a focused warrior (fighter, barbarian or even paladin or ranger with the right favoured enemies) is a must. Preferably someone who does pretty well in melee combat. But between the tank cleric / paladin and the archer you might have this covered fairly well.

For arcane casters, I think a sorcerer may work better for this campaign than a wizard, there are some potentially interesting background tie-ins, and in the later parts of the campaign the wizard may struggle to find time to learn spells, create scrolls and magic items etc.

It would probably be a big advantage (and make for some good roleplaying opportunities) if the cleric / paladin followed one of the major religions practised in Cauldron.

My group hasnt started AoW yet, but when we do, and if my players want advice on classes, I would recommend:

Fighter or Barbarian (tank, melee focus, some ranged)
Cleric (healer, undead turner, buffing the group, divinations)
Wizard (blasting, long distance travel, divinations)
Rogue / Bard (locks, traps, NPC interactions, knowledge)

If we have a 5th player I would recommend:

Paladin (secondary combat specialist, secondary healer, secondary undead specialist)

First time playing through SC my gaming group kind of fell apart during Zenith Trajectory. Recently started over with some new players, now partway through Flood Season (just found the entrance to the Kopru Ruins)

We have:
Elendil (human male bard 4 / sorcerer 1)
Alethian (elf male rogue 5)
The Pilgrim (human male cleric 2 [cuthbert]/fighter 2/ranger 1 - going for Fiend Slayer prestige class)
Elsbeth (human female fighter 4 - missed a couple of sessions)
Nixt (elf female sorcerer 5)

My apologies for voting against you when you stand in such a vulnerable position....

Oh, and what were the comic references in Man Forever out of interest? Must have been buried too deeply for me, or I was just particularly dense when I read it ... I sort of saw things as more general "vampire / peasants with pitchforks / evil witches" type references...

I flicked through my back issues of Dungeon the other night to see what each of the authors in question had actually written (sorry, I dont usually pay that much attention when Im reading or playing the games).

There's some good stuff there! Wish I could write anything even half as good as either of you.

But Im going to have to give my vote to Pett based on past issues, sorry. The Styes, The Devil Box, Prince of Redhand - kills it!

My two cents - outside or pop culture references in D&D dont really bother me. Anymore than Shakespeare or Tolkien or Lovecraft references do (but then Im probably more likely to notice or get the literary references than the comic ones). If I find the references too obvious or cheesy I might be inclined to change them (usually just a simple name change) for my campaign, but mainly its a non issue to me.

Pretty much the same feeling on the old school D&D references. However, as has been touched on before in this thread, it does mystify me a little when people think its "so awesome" when these older references are included in new adventures, and I think perhaps it may tend to alienate newer players if the references are too blatent - or if an otherwise average adventure is praised as "awesome" simply due to some of these references.

But, for example, I think the Age of Worms adventure path WAS really awesome, and I lost count of all the old school references, plot points, characters, concepts (and indeed the entire POINT of the adventure path) in there.

I liked the idea presented in the adventure for getting the players involved, but I thought it was a little vague and undetailed (apologies to Eric Mona) as presented in Dungeon. I guess it only takes a little creativity and leg work on the part of the DM to tailor it to his/her party and make it work though. I like the tailored idea that Sean presents here. I had a similar idea in mind, ie all or most of the PCs would have been kids in Diamond Lake either 6 years ago (when the girl got eaten by the snake in the tomb) or 30 years ago (when Alastor Land disapeared) and be part of the gang of local kids "in the know" about the tomb, but gave up on exploring it as youngsters when their friends died / disapeared.
I must consider actually getting them to roleplay their younger selves as Sean suggests!

Yeah, that is a really good idea for introducing Skylar early and leading the party to Triel ... wish I'd thought of that. My group met Skylar a couple of times prior to the riot (investigating missing townsfolk in Lifes Bazaar and trying to track Triel in Flood Season), but never really formed an attachment to him, cept that he was a nice guy and a good contact in the watch.

One of my players (Cuthbertian Fiend Slayer) honed in on the fact that Triel wore very distinctive armour during the attack on the Lucky Monkey, and decided to gather info at the local smithy as to any unusual armour orders etc. I reasoned that Triel's armour was not made in Cauldron, but that she or some of the thugs had probably had cause to have their armour repaired over the time theyd been hiding out under Cauldron making Soul Cages and training for the attack on the Lucky Monkey, so the smith did have a bit of info on her, which, through a trail of other contacts from there led to one of the alleybashers from the Kopru ruins up in the city buying supplies, who lead them back to the hideout.