MisterSlanky's page

How about 4E?

Just kidding...or am I?

Seriously, by far the worst thing I've played to date was TORG. A friend of mine bought me the set to GM (oh the joys of being known as the guy who will run a game) and besides the overly complicated system related to the various semi-time-travel elements, the system had me really scratching my head.

The whole concept seemed okay, but we eventually trashed the idea of running a game (something to this day I'm grateful about).

I know it's been a month since this was commented, on but in lieu of the update that WotC is going to be at GenCon I'm curious.

How many people shuffled events over to 4E events?

I myself didn't move a thing, but I'm curious to see if this actually hurt WotC due to people not wanting to muck up their plans.

I only had time to sign up for one (oh how I loathe the need to sleep).

So I've got Pathfinder #1 on Saturday morning, bright and early.

If I can figure out how to fit in one more I will, but I'm not counting my chances (unless I drop another Shadowrun game).

I've also seen the less legal copy that's floating around the internet.

Not only do they have to deal with places like buy.com that sent out their sales early, but it's pretty obvious WotC has a leak. Those documents are absolutely not scanned images.

Although I pretty much loathe 4E, there were a couple things that stood out as positives.

Action Points:
Far clearer in implementation than those presented in any of the other D20 products. I like the idea of giving characters a method of dealing with those "oh crap!" situations in a very clean, easy to implement manner.

Bloodied:
This one is actually being borrowed. All too often things degenerate to "how bad off does he look?" Normally as a DM I'm thinking "he looks pretty bad", or "you've been beating him with a stick, he's bruised, but it's hard to tell". Now it's as simple as "mostly alive" vs. "mostly dead" and the pros/cons that come with it. Besides, I'm imagining 3.5E feats that can use the bloodied property such as Bloody Rage: "You get an extra rage attempt when bloodied" or Bloody Mess: "All attempts to grapple you will act as if you are greased when bloodied".

That's about it. Most everything else I'm all for chucking out the window.

Good advice. You should consider following it.

In my personal opinion, I kept this email dumbed down and streamlined to the point of idiocy in case people playing WoW had trouble reading it. Frankly, you have a right to disagree with this post, that's your perrogative, but I have complete disdain for anyone that would find it insulting.

Really, the "let's take what somebody else wrote and turn it into a personal attack is getting very old. Sebastian, I've seen you in every negative 4E thread there is. I think we all get it, you love 4E, you can't imagine why anybody wouldn't love 4E. I have no problem that you, or any other person love 4E, what I have a problem with is that you can't seem to get over yourself.

In my personal opinion, I have formed myself by reading the manuals and playing the game, 4E is a pile of crap. If you disagree with me, that's fine, I think its great that people can have different opinions and enjoy different things, but turning each and every response you write into a hate-filled insult-ridden diatribe on how we're idiots for having a differing opinion than yours is tired and frankly isn't doing much to enamor me to the Paizo community. Just because you thinly veil your "you're an idiot" response into a snappy repeat of what has just been said doesn't make it any less hurtful to others.

What I don't get is how this kind of continued attitude keeps anybody new coming to these boards and the damage you're doing to the community.

I read the 4E books. I played a 4E game. I canceled my 4E pre-order yesterday.

Those who like 4E: good for you, I really do hope you have fun. Our hobby is all about having fun and if this is fun for you, more power to you. If you think the rules are streamlined and you feel heroic, I'm ecstatic you're enjoying yourself.

Those who don't like 4E: I agree with about 95% of what has been stated as negatives to this game. After playing through a session, I have a complete disdain for the 4E ruleset and what WotC has done to the beloved IP that was D&D. IMHO 4E is a miniatures wargame in RPG clothing; while that is not bad in itself, in my mind and in the way my group likes to play D&D, it absolutely positively is not D&D. On the other hand, calm down a little. We're not going to play, and frankly if people want to disagree with us, that's our prerogative. In my personal opinion the game is dumbed down, the rules are streamlined to the point of idiocy, and the game plays like I've turned on my computer and I'm raiding with my level 70 druid.

To both groups. Drop the "you're a moron" attitude. If somebody enjoys the game let them be. If somebody thinks 4E is a steaming pile of horse manure let them be. We could all do without the vitriolic attacks on the PEOPLE you disagree with (Sebastian, I'm pointing at you amongst others).

Gut reaction?

I was excited about 4E, more so than 3E. The ideas of "streamlining the game", and "bringing the feel back to 1E" and eliminating the "heal me now!" role of clerics had excited me to no end. I was the only person in our gaming group gung-ho about the release date and put in my pre-order months ago. I dismissed the nay sayers and those who said it would play like a CRPG as "not moving forward."

Then I got to read the starter module, then the PHB. I became a little more uncomfortable with how the game plays. You can argue about rule improvements until you're blue in the face, but it felt that the game had turned from an RPG into an action-oriented tactical combat simulator. If I want to play tactical combat, I'll go play AT-43 or Warhammer. But I was still interested in the whole 4E thing.

The other day I got to play. I canceled my pre-order yesterday. I want nothing to do with 4E. I will never give WotC a dime of my money to support what I consider a terrible interpretation of D&D. I agree with virtually every complaint those who dislike 4E make claims over. To beat he dead horse even more, after playing, the game *is* a CRPG no matter which way you try to spin it. Our cleric never even once saw a reason to swing his weapon, our wizard just kept waiting for his cooldown on his spells and there was absolutely *no* creativity in how those spells were used, clericial healing has been handed over to the Paladin, who pretty much needed to run around the battlefield casting lay of hands, my favorite characters for years (an illusion bard negotiator with virtually no combat abilities and an illusionist/enchanter who controlled the flow of battle with his spells) cannot in any way exist in 4E. One person who disliked 4E put it brilliantly, the game suffers from "The Incredibles" syndrome. When everybody is special, nobody is. The "need" to make sure everybody feels like their character is balanced sets forth this problem that in the end nobody really shines because everybody seems equally powerful in each encounter.

Bottom line: I felt attacked and more importantly insulted with the new rules.

Will your feelings be different? Quite possibly, but frankly, my initial reaction is about as negative as they come. I will not be playing 4E now or ever.