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Zayifid

Mike Schneider's page

Pathfinder Society Member. 2,414 posts (3,562 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. 1 wishlist. 6 Pathfinder Society characters. 2 aliases.


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Liberty's Edge

Kaouse wrote:
What does SR have to do with Spell Save DC? Would you be capable of showing me a build that can get it's spell save DC up to 36 by level 12?
It rolled high and the result is a 35. It's uncanny how often this monster gets a 35. (Now do half-damage and be glad it didn't have Improved Evasion.)
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...In the end, all you will prove is that characters made to solve your challenging scenario will solve it.
The best take home gold.
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As such, it's completely useless and should be dropped.

No refunds. Says so right on your entry-form.

Liberty's Edge

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...the time to interview and hire hirelings is not taken into account because this is not a campaign. This is a DPS test....

PFS is a campaign. The first sentence of the (Pathfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Guide) begins: "In an organized play campaign...", and the PSRGG is the "campaign bible". The DPR challenge is a hypothetical encounter.

Hiring NPCs for a specific, one-shot task is a contingency service: "Contingency services are similar to contacts, but represent paying hirelings in advance for future services that begin after a specified signal or time limit. Unlike contacts, most contingency services are arranged as a single transaction, buying one service performed in case of a specific event." Hiring first-level commoners to pack themselves in tightly around an uncaged monster is a suicidal request.

Even if you could bluff a regularly company (i.e., less expensive) of men-at-arms, they're going to start asking questions almost immediately, and subsequently jack up their rate, which you will pay, or see them leave.

What can hirelings do in PFS? As it turns out, not a lot. They can be hired for out-of-combat services, but typically cannot be for adventuring (bringing hired NPC spellcasters along is specifically proscribed). A "porter" is a vanity item costing prestige points, can only carry your stuff, and disappears into Hammerspace during combat.

* * * *

Wait, what's this? Hold the Scry-horn, everyone! Late-breaking news has informed us that newly-appointed head campaign-coordinator Tonya Woldridge is currently being held locked-up in a hall closet following a coup d'etat by rebellious regional venture-captains (something to do with a recently-implemented policy concerning candy treat requirements for the upcoming holidays -- a Snickers ban policy did not go down well, we hear, something to do with peanut allergies -- although our correspondents have yet to verify these potentially erroneous details), and for a brief time, chaos reigns down at the Lodge in Absalom.

Therefore, for the next week, ending at the stroke of midnight on Halloween, October 31st, PEASANT RAILGUN builds will be entertained in the arena. In fact, all fees are waived! The jails have been emptied, and a mass of "suicide squad" prisoners are yours to do with as you please, and you don't have to pay them a penny.

The mechanics will still have to be PFS-legal (items, spells, feats, etc), save regards to the employment of 1st-level commoners.

Liberty's Edge

Challenge rule tweaks, additions, and extended descriptions:

* Consider initiative rolled at the beginning. For simplicity, the rounds are relabeled 1, 2, and 3. You do not see any opponent during Round 1 on your turn. (You will if you ready.)

* Round 2's 10'-away opponent is the same one that moved to attack you, unless your abilities (e.g., Awesome Blow, "assassination", etc) make that unlikely (i.e., you're no longer near that opponent), in which case at the beginning of Round 1 you're facing a second opponent identical to the first who got up next to you (triggering no AoOs, or you whiffed). Tailor your build and tactics to best exploit either option. If you think a scenario is likely, make a note of it.

* Round 3's opponent is not the same one that you fought last round. It is also size Large.

* In addition to the two pre-combat buffs, you may have...
-- one more long-term buff if 8hr or longer duration

* If you have at least eight spellcasting levels, you may have an additional long-term 8hr+ buff and an additional intermediate-duration buff.

* Because the last round is proving difficult, I'm softening it a slight tad:
-- If you have an effect or ability which does not require an action to trigger, you may evade the Staggered, Shaken, and/or Sickened conditions. This effect or ability cannot be from a spell buff ongoing at the end the previous round.
-- You remain pinned and at 0hp under the monster. While at 0hp, you have the Disabled condition. You do not have the Helpless condition.

== == == ==

"Journey with us once more into the land of module-play, where post-retirement mayhem awaits!"

* Attributes: 20pt-buy pre-racial. You have three more level bumps by 12th. Build must be PFS legal.

* Build: it would be nice to see all levels in your build (with order feats taken in, class variants chosen, final HP and save totals, etc), but it is not required.

* Equipment: you have 110,000gp to spend, no more than a third of it in one object.

* Round 1:
-- Initiative is rolled. Opponents are not in sight, and the direction they are coming from is not known. Take the round to prepare.
-- Your allies are "selfish"; no one assists you unless under your control.
-- You may have two preexisting intermediate-duration buff (1min/lvl or greater) buffs already in-effect prior to the prep round, and one long-term buff of 8hr+ duration. If you have at least eight spellcasting levels, you may have an additional long-term 8hr+ buff and an additional intermediate-duration buff.

* Monster Turn: a large opponent with 10' reach moves up to 10' away on its turn and strikes you for damage, hitting AC35. It is AC 30, Touch 18, Flat 25. If you have buffs, items or abilities which generate one or more attacks of opportunity in this scenario, take them. You do not have a clear charge lane. Any check you make against it is versus 35 (skills, CMD, saves, resistance, whatever). The monster’s attack roll is 35, and it does 35hp damage.

* Round 2: You are eligible for a full-attack. You are at the edge of the opponent's reach, and it threatens. There is no difficult terrain or nearby cover.

* Between Round 2 and 3, none of your available attacks of opportunity went off. Assume you rolled 1s, or could not take them. In any event, you did no further damage.

* Round 3: A different monster is sitting on top of you, and you feel its jaws beginning to crush the life from you. Armor creaks and pops as serrated teeth ratchet and rend. Barely conscious, you are dimly aware that you still hold your weapon.

-- You are prone, pinned, shaken, sickened, staggered, and at 0hp. If you have an effect or ability which does not require an action to trigger, you may evade the Staggered, Shaken, and/or Sickened conditions. This effect or ability cannot be from a spell buff ongoing at the end of your turn on Round 2 (any such have been debuffed). Other spells, such as Haste, remain active.) This monster also size large, hits AC35, and possesses See Invisible and Fast Swallow.

-- If you have a companion that is less than fully 12th level, it is no longer alive at this point. If it remains alive, it is within its move of you, but not within a 5' of full-attacking. It is capable of charging.

Do the best you can.

-- That's it. Dead or alive, tally up. If your character has "tricks" (sneak-attack, favored-enemy, favored terrain, trips on AoOs, has Smite, Bane enhancements, etc), compute damage twice: once for nothing-is-applicable and once for opponent-eats-everything-ya-got. If you think you can do it, do it.

=======

Damage/round formula: h(d+s)+tf(cd+cb+r)

h = Chance to hit, expressed as a percentage. This doesn't exceed .95 (unless you autohit for whatever reason) and never goes below .05.
d = Normal damage. This is any damage that happens any time you hit.
s = Damage which isn't multiplied on a crit. "s" stands for sneak attack, but this also includes elemental/alignment properties on weapons, precision damage, manyshot damage, and so on.
t = Chance to roll a threat. This is the threat range of your weapon or your chance to hit, whichever is lower.
f = This is your chance to confirm a threat. Most of the time, this is equal to h. If you have Critical Focus, it's (h+.2) or .95, whichever is higher. If you auto-confirm crits, as with a level 20 fighter or Bless Weapon, this is 1.
c = This is the number of bonus multiples you get from a crit. A 2x crit weapon is 1, a 3x crit weapon is 2, etc.

Remember to subtract one from your crit multiplier, or your damage will be over-done in the formula!

b = This is elemental burst damage, such as from fiery burst weapons and thundering. Such enhancements self-multiply based on your crit multiplier; if they don't, then they're added to r and not b.
r = This is fixed bonus damage dealt on a crit. No such abilities exist in PF core, to my knowledge.

=======

Character construction:

What is allowed in PFS? A quick way to determine if a feature is permitted is to toss its name plus "nethys" into a search-engine, whereupon its listing at the Archives of Nethys will be found, and if the Pathfinder Society's round Glyph of the Open Road logo is displayed, the feature is very probably legal. For example, the feat Two-Weapon Fighting is PFS-legal. There are corner-cases, however, and these may have a red circle around the logo; this means that the campaign has issued a ruling which modifies unrestricted access. If the feature you found at Nethys doesn't have the logo, it's probably not PFS-legal.

That said, new material is introduced continuously and previously-legal old material is occasionally proscribed, and not even the indefatigable stalwarts helming Nethys can keep up. So here's the follow-up trick: Nethys will provide the name of the book or books in which the feature has appeared. Which that knowledge, head over to Pathfinder Society's Additional Resources page and scan down for that book. If your feature (or, more often, its umbrella category) is listed as legal, you're good to go.

Another great site aiding in character-generation is d20pfsrd. It does not indicate PFS-legality (note that all non-Paizo material is unapproved), but is very easy to navigate and quickly explore options.

Lastly, wording in the PRD (searchable from this site) trumps wording from any other source.

=======

Winner's Circle

From time to time, a build tactic will be recognized as overwhelmingly strong and dominating competition. Said tactic will then be "given the gold" and retired. New contestants may NOT use retired tactics (we already know they're very powerful).

Current winners:

* Polymorth into multiattack monster. (You may still employ Enlarge Person, mutagens, and similar effects which don't significantly alter your form.)

== == == ==

* Final thread rule: We're here to have fun kickin' monster butt! Please keep the signal-to-noise ratio positive. No critiquing until you've posted a build (error-correcting permitted).

Liberty's Edge

Sure; let's see 'em.

Liberty's Edge

Chromantic Durgon <3 wrote:
...Bold: literally every person actively posting in your thread.
While there was a long hiatus, this thread is over six years old. No one was complaining about the basic format until a few days ago.
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This isn't a game, we can't win or lose our characters, there are no stakes. It's an excersize in comparing builds to see which ones have the strongest DPR mechanics.
"DPR challenge" is right in the thread title.
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For example any defensive combat styles are completely nullified, and using any style at all prohibits any builds that want their swift action for anything else. Inquisitors can't stack bane and judgement together

The theme (unchanged in six years) of this challenge is to not be one of those "ideal" scenarios where the characters enjoy every gimmick activated all at once in order to supernova. There are other DPR threads that do that, and they're more unrealistic than this one.

The present scenario grants ability to ready an action during the prep round for when the opponents come into view. (The ability to charge is the only thing precluded at that point, because permitting such would necessarily mean that builds containing Rhino Charge and pounce/pummel always "win" by snagging an additional full/multi-attack.)

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And then on top of all that you've decided that casters have to contend with something more than double their CR (25-30) whilst martials are dealing with the defences of a CR15, seemingly for no reason other than the fact you can't be bothered to post a more balanced range. Even though Deighton has already told you what saves would be to match its AC.

Round 2's opponent is deliberately unfair. Round 2 exists just to see what your same build that crushed Round 1 can do, if anything, in a virtual worst-case scenario.

(It is assumed that you can easily beat a "fair" monster, which is why I am not "bothering" with that.)

Liberty's Edge

Deighton Thrane wrote:
Well, Mike has both stated that you're not in combat, so can't activate a style feat, but then also has a build taking attacks of opportunity without uncanny dodge or combat reflexes, which you can't do without acting in combat first, so having combat start on the monsters turn doesn't make sense either.

The stated "given" of the DPR Challenge is that you are not surprised, and it has always been that way.

-- I have to keep reminding people that this is not a Totally Accurate Battle Simulator; it is an exploration of powerful build construction and technique, and occasionally a new situation will be added (e.g., Round 2 recently) to tease out new ideas, while proven unbeatable mechanics are "given the gold" and retired.

pad300 wrote:
Ok, I'm just going to start assuming that combat started when the prep round started...

You do not see an opponent during your turn in the prep round. They go first during the fight...but you're not surprised. Why? Who cares. It's the "given". Enjoy the fact that you are not surprised. Your character would.

____________

Errata: In Round 2, the monster was listed as having "Improved Grab", which is what it was called in 3rd edition. The Pathfinder universal monster ability which most closely matches it is "Attach", so we'll go with that.

Liberty's Edge

Deighton Thrane wrote:
I think it really begs the question, what does "(If you had any spells or supernatural abilities which would have prevented this, they have been debuffed" entail.It means you're flat on your can under the monster at the beginning of your turn in Round2. Player: "But it didn't happen because X!" GM: "Well, the OFS module writers hate you today, because X didn't work this time. Deal with it."
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Also, are we staggered because we are disabled, or is the staggered condition applied regardless of current HP?

The conditions don't have memory. You are staggered, shaken, sickened, prone, and pinned with 0 HP at the beginning of Round 2.

I know you're very good at this Deighton, and you'll find something amongst that vast array of splatbooks out there. (I fully expect you to 'ace' this and take home another gold.)

= = =

Chromantic Durgon <3 wrote:
You still haven't posted the monster's save, yet you say that squishies are welcome.
"...Any check you make against it is versus opposed 35 (skills, CMD, resistance, whatever)..."
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also, if staggered can you take a swift?
By the book, whatever it permits for that condition.
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a wiz/sorc/arcanist could dim door away and quicken infernal healing. I have to say I don't really get the point of round two. It seems to be some desperate attempt into railroading people into making one more standard action attack to boost their damage.

While obviously a PC would prefer to flee in such a situation if they were able, the point of Round 2 is to see how much any extra damage you can dish out while -10 to melee attack rolls. If you don't attack, the answer is zero.

This is, after all, a DPR challenge.

Quote:
If you back players into a wall to try and make them do something, their instinct is almost never to do that thing, but rather to escape the scenario entirely.

Additional monsters will continue pouring through the breach to the Worldwound, whereas jamming the hole with its corpse might buy a round or two....

Put yourself in a paladin frame of mind: If you flee, the monsters will ravage your wounded allies, and your deity will know you were a coward.

Liberty's Edge

Scott Wilhelm wrote:
From the build I presented earlier, she is well-under her spending limit, so Boots of teleportation and get away, then hang back and shoot it from afar, or Grapple to escape, slip into a Portable Hole, then heal up and roll better in round 3?

There is no Round 3. If you run away, you do less overall damage.

-- The monster looks very badly hurt, and everyone else in the party is down....

(That's "flavor", not a contest rule.)

Liberty's Edge

pad300 wrote:
Seriously Mike, you need to rethink round 2 a bit, and tone it down.

You haven't even had a round 2 for half a week.

I may just get rid of it if there's going to be a lot of complaining, because there little point of "Nova(x2)" full-attack comparisons once you already have the (Nova) score from Round 1. The prep round's monster attack was to permit AoOs, which are by definition distinct from full-attacks, and thereby explore a different aspect of one's build. That's what I am interested in: different aspects. Round 2's was to see you can do anything in a situation in which 98% of characters can't. -- I don't expect you to be able to do much. You could swing one last time, you companion suicides in to save you, and that's it. When you go down the well, bad things eat you.

Deighton Thrane wrote:
I would suggest just having the monster dim door in with dimensional assault. If it starts next to you you can't charge it, so no pounce or pummeling charge. Or any mounted charges for that matter. Should fix the two turns worth of damage builds.

Then you wouldn't get AoOs either, which is a mechanic I explicitly want to see in action, and I'd had clever types come in with Counterspell and claim the DimDoor failed.

Easy button: Your charge-lane is blocked.

(E.g., enemy wizard plopped down a Wall for that very reason.)

== == == ==

"Journey with us once more into the land of module-play, where post-retirement mayhem awaits!"

* Attributes: 20pt-buy pre-racial. You have three more level bumps by 12th. Build must be PFS legal.

* Build: it would be nice to see all levels in your build (with order feats taken in, class variants chosen, final HP and save totals, etc), but it is not required.

* Equipment: you have 110,000gp to spend, no more than a third of it in one object.

* Prep Round:
- You are not surprised and have one full round to prepare.
- Your allies are "selfish"; no one assists you.
- You may have one preexisting intermediate-duration buff (1min/lvl up to half-hour) and one long-term (10min/lvl or greater) buff already in-effect prior to the prep round.
- You do not see the enemy during the prep round and do not know from what direction they will be arriving; abilities or spells that require an opponent-in-sight will therefore not work unless they can be deployed as or in conjunction with readied-actions.

* Monster Turn: a large opponent with 10' reach moves up to 10' away on its turn and strikes you for damage, hitting AC35. It is AC 30, Touch 15, Flat 23. If you have buffs, items or abilities which generate one or more AoOs in this scenario, take them. You do not have a clear charge lane.

* Your Turn: Take your attacks. You are at the edge of the opponent's reach, and it threatens. Any check you make against it is versus opposed 35 (skills, CMD, resistance, whatever). There is no difficult terrain or nearby cover.

* Darkness Descends: It's horrible, I tell you; none of your AoOs went off.

* Swan Song: A monster is sitting on top of you, and you feel its jaws beginning to crush the life from you. Armor creaks and pops as serrated teeth ratchet and rend. Barely conscious, you are dimly aware that you still hold your weapon.

-- You are prone, pinned, shaken, sickened, staggered, and at 0hp. (If you had any spells or supernatural abilities which would have prevented this, they have been debuffed. Other spells, such as Haste, remain active.) This monster also hits AC35, and possesses See Invisible, Improved Grab and Fast Swallow.

-- If you have a companion that is less than fully 12th level, it is no longer alive at this point. If it remains alive, it is within its move of you, but not within a 5' of full-attacking the monster.

Do the best you can.

-- That's it. Dead or alive, tally up. If your character has "tricks" (sneak-attack, favored-enemy, favored terrain, trips on AoOs, has Smite, Bane enhancements, etc), compute damage twice: once for nothing-is-applicable and once for opponent-eats-everything-ya-got. If you think you can do it, do it.

=======

Damage/round formula: h(d+s)+tf(cd+cb+r)

h = Chance to hit, expressed as a percentage. This doesn't exceed .95 (unless you autohit for whatever reason) and never goes below .05.
d = Normal damage. This is any damage that happens any time you hit.
s = Damage which isn't multiplied on a crit. "s" stands for sneak attack, but this also includes elemental/alignment properties on weapons, precision damage, manyshot damage, and so on.
t = Chance to roll a threat. This is the threat range of your weapon or your chance to hit, whichever is lower.
f = This is your chance to confirm a threat. Most of the time, this is equal to h. If you have Critical Focus, it's (h+.2) or .95, whichever is higher. If you auto-confirm crits, as with a level 20 fighter or Bless Weapon, this is 1.
c = This is the number of bonus multiples you get from a crit. A 2x crit weapon is 1, a 3x crit weapon is 2, etc.

Remember to subtract one from your crit multiplier, or your damage will be over-done in the formula!

b = This is elemental burst damage, such as from fiery burst weapons and thundering. Such enhancements self-multiply based on your crit multiplier; if they don't, then they're added to r and not b.
r = This is fixed bonus damage dealt on a crit. No such abilities exist in PF core, to my knowledge.

=======

Character construction:

What is allowed in PFS? A quick way to determine if a feature is permitted is to toss its name plus "nethys" into a search-engine, whereupon its listing at the Archives of Nethys will be found, and if the Pathfinder Society's round Glyph of the Open Road logo is displayed, the feature is very probably legal. For example, the feat Two-Weapon Fighting is PFS-legal. There are corner-cases, however, and these may have a red circle around the logo; this means that the campaign has issued a ruling which modifies unrestricted access. If the feature you found at Nethys doesn't have the logo, it's probably not PFS-legal.

That said, new material is introduced continuously and previously-legal old material is occasionally proscribed, and not even the indefatigable stalwarts helming Nethys can keep up. So here's the follow-up trick: Nethys will provide the name of the book or books in which the feature has appeared. Which that knowledge, head over to Pathfinder Society's Additional Resources page and scan down for that book. If your feature (or, more often, its umbrella category) is listed as legal, you're good to go.

Another great site aiding in character-generation is d20pfsrd. It does not indicate PFS-legality (note that all non-Paizo material is unapproved), but is very easy to navigate and quickly explore options.

=======

Winner's Circle

From time to time, a build tactic will be recognized as overwhelmingly strong and dominating competition. Said tactic will then be "given the gold" and retired. New contestants may NOT use retired tactics (we already they're very powerful).

Current winners:

* Polymorth into multiattack monster. (You may still employ Enlarge Person, mutagens, and similar effects which don't significantly alter your form.)

== == == ==

* Final thread rule: We're here to have fun kickin' monster butt! Please keep the signal-to-noise ratio positive. No critiquing until you've posted a build (error-correcting permitted).

Liberty's Edge

When we get to the next page, I'll update the rules for the reboot. In the meantime, Deighton Thrane is awarded the September 2017 Gold medal in PFS-legal cheese for two build-mechanics that are pretty much impossible to top save by derivations in the same theme, and they are:

1) Polymorphing into a multi-attack monster.
2) Exploiting a contest loophole to enjoy two full-attacks.

And with, off the winner's circle they go to reflex and be fed grapes while the struggle in the arena continues.

Builds going forward:

* You may not transform into a monster. (Mutagens and size-changes are otherwise OK.)

* You will not receive a full-attack as a readied action on the monster turn between the Prep round and the Battle round.

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

When I saw the title of this thread, I had fond memories of Jiggy's DEX:7 spam-can paladin failing Acrobats checks.

"Timber!..."

Liberty's Edge

Minor detail: The challenge does not assert that you are the only person threatening your opponent. This means that the Mivoni Duelist trait (among other, similar things) is not a certainty.

If your build contains such situational benefits, have two score totals, one with and one without.

Liberty's Edge

Yay! A squishy!

If you could Quicken that or stuff it into a Spellstoring item and somehow unload two, or that and something else, in one round, it would top 500. Let's see a full build.

Liberty's Edge

avr wrote:
I'd suggest that eidolons are tougher and more dangerous than animal companions unless intentionally nerfed
I've no doubt of that. (PFS laid the mallet down on summoners pretty hard, so any builds involving it will get extra extra scrutiny at the tables. I don't think anybody minds if you cake-walk, but when you do it looking like an alien monster from another dimension that need fifteen minutes to resolve your turn, yeeeah...)
Deighton Thrane wrote:
...Because of freedom of movement we can't be grappled, and therefore can't be pinned. We're also immune to fear, and the shaken condition. We still have 0 HP, are sickened, staggered and prone. We delay til our familiar, who is invisible and therefore not provoking for movement....

At the beginning of Round2, you are prone, pinned, shaken, sickened, staggered, and at 0hp. -- If you had a spell or supernatural ability previously active which would have prevented any of those, you've been debuffed by one means or another. You will remain Hasted and Enlarged (etc, etc) if you were previously, but anything pertaining to prone, pinned, shaken, sickened, staggered is "off" at that moment. (If you have an extraordinary ability permitting more than a standard action while staggered, odds are a little brighter for you.)

I'm also going to give the Round2 monster See Invisible (not uncommon at that level) as well as Improved Grab and Fast Swallow. In order for your companion to successfully Pounce (if capable and that is its intention), it'll need to have a base AC of 38 prior to charging (AC-2) in other to avoid the monster's attack versus AC35.

Liberty's Edge

What have I nerfed? (aside from Wonder Twin Powers Activate 'Form of Monster', which we have already agreed is already the undisputed winner of any DPR contest in which it participates)?

Nothing prevents you from using an animal companion in Round1 or while exploiting AoOs on monster turn at the end of the prep round. It occurs to me that a halfling lone wolf rider could really rack it up.

Quote:
I don't mind post some functioning and perhaps closer to reality less focused on DPS builds just to see how they compare to these knife edge builds.

Absolutely! (Check the first few pages of the thread where I recurvisely detuned a bowbarian archer to make him more practical.)

Liberty's Edge

Quote:
What's with the nerf to nonlethal damage

Honestly, it's just a kludge because otherwise every single build is going to start including the same exploit for doubling weapon-training bonus. (At 12th, regeneration becomes increasingly common anyway, meaning non-lethal is a poor tactic in actual fighting. If you can dish it out all in a single strike, like a sapmaster, then I suppose it would be viable.)

I might also give the monster some DR. (Probably DR:5/-)

But the Suggestion Box is still open.

Quote:
I have to say I don't understand the animal companion and familiar nerfs.

Considering that no one has actually submitted a build with an AC yet, I'm not sure from whence the objection. In any event, getting knocked or dragged out of the saddle (or some such) is a problem one could face.

The purpose of Round2 isn't to give you a whole 'nother full-attack. It's just to see if the same nova builds that trounced Round1 are able to do anything when flat on their can mostly dead.

Quote:
The monster had your familiar for lunch when you can't even see the monster?

It's never been stipulated that there's only one monster in the encounter. For the contest's purposes, you've just had your hands full with the one attacking you. The monster sitting on you in Round2 isn't necessarily the same one.

= = = = =

Put yourselves in the frame of mind that this is not a totally accurate battle simulator, but rather instead the ending of 'Berserk'.

Do the best you can. Acquit yourselves well, for the gods may be watching.

Liberty's Edge

A few more alterations:

* The monster is immune to nonlethal.

* In keeping with the "Your allies are 'selfish'; no one buffs you" existing condition, I'm ruling that tactician feats and stuff like shared and amplified rage (etc) don't work in this situation, save for the sole exception that you possess a fully-leveled animal-companion or mount. (Anything weaker the monsters had for lunch.)

* Companions are no longer adjacent to you or within their 5' step of reaching the monster in Round2 but are within a move-action of being so positioned (note that this may provoke an AoO from the monster, which hits AC35, and for the purposes of round2 I'm declaring that if it AoOs your companion, they cannot reach your side).

Liberty's Edge

pad300 wrote:
Another suggestion for Mike: The monster does X dmg when it attacks. You must remain conscious after the end of the fight (and all buffs of less than 10 min/lvl duration have worn off)...

In keeping with the original theme that the monster was supposed to be tough, here's what we'll do:

2nd round (after an opponent turn in which none of your AoOs or readied-actions triggered or connected for one reason or another), you find yourself in the following predicament at the beginning of the next round:

A monster is sitting on top of you, and you feel its jaws beginning to crush the life from you. Armor creaks and pops as serrated teeth ratchet and rend. Barely conscious, you are dimly aware that you still hold your weapon.

-- You are prone, pinned, shaken, sickened, staggered, and at 0hp.

Do the best you can.

Liberty's Edge

Deighton Thrane wrote:
So, without rewriting everything, taking wild child for the badger animal companion, free action directing him, and using a potion of long arm for an attack of opportunity instead of heroism, damage looks like this: ** spoiler omitted ** So we just barely crack 1000, but 1004 average damage should be enough to put the original set up for the challenge to bed.
I've a feeling we're only scratching the surface of polymorph monster, so... Good, and *done*. On to the reboot.
Quote:
Outside of setting up a multi fight challenge, not too sure what to change though. The ability to nova on most classes is pretty strong in pathfinder.

While you can legally do it for the present, I doubt you could afford it even in cash-rich PFS, where even at 12th (and if you've never had to pony cash for Raise Dead) 3000gp dedicated for use activating 700gp scrolls is an out-of-reach extravagance. But banning the key doesn't really solve the problem because it's easy to retool the build for slightly lower STR in order to have INT 14 in bloodrager to trigger without UMD (which is why I'm not even bothering to check and see the key's +10 gets you to the DC27 check to activate the scroll).

= = = =

pad300 wrote:
For Mike: Suggestion #1: No polymorph effects except enlarge person...

You know... I think I'm going to go with that. It satisfies K.I.S.S. and doesn't rely on me lowering consumable limits or starting an item ban-fest.

I'll permit Righteous Might and similar resizings so long as the PC remains in the same form at the end the process and aren't gaining six attacks and pounce. Mutagens are OK.

Quote:
Suggestion #2: You and the opponent start on opposite sides of a circular 60" diameter arena (flat flagstones, no terrain), behind indestructible transparent gates. After 1 round, the gates open. As you can see each other but cannot attack, there is no surprise round, but there is one round for buffing/starting styles, etc. Opponent wins initiative with a natural 20+X, he closes as previous and attacks...

That's overly complicated and crafted solely to enable visual-confirmation-dependent builds to activate goodies like Smite in the prep round. So, no. You hear the sickening sound of a trap going off, and know you're screwed in approximately six seconds. Get ready. Maybe they pop out of the wall or floor, or are dim'd in. You don't know until it happens.

Note that the ongoing contest already granted the contestant the "freebie" of not being surprised (something that is most certainly not a given in actual fights, especially in builds that don't have Uncanny Dodge and end up being Flat-Footed because Paizo devs are lawful-evil fiends for whom the tears of fallen munchkins are delicious gravy. (That's the reason every seemingly overpowered melee archetype forfeits a grade of armor proficiency and/or Uncanny Dodge: they're long-term traps.)

Quote:
(ps. Mike is this close by the opponent a charge? A brace weapon wants to know...)

Not saying it was or wasn't. But it's easy enough to add as a addendum to your damage total since Brace activates like a x2 crit (merely doubling a number you've already calculated). Note that bracing is a readied action.

Liberty's Edge

Chromantic Durgon <3 wrote:
It'd be interesting if there were a couple of scenarios people could choose from. I know it wouldn't be as standardized, but you could set it up as a best in show and then best overall.
The reason I had it set up as it is presently is because I specifically wanted it to represent the most dangerous kind of encounter, which is one in which the monster goes first and it's already up in your face. DPR contests elsewhere typically let you buff to the 9s and then unload everything including the kitchen sink with a ridiculous percentage of WBL sunk sunk into consumables.
Quote:
One where the monster makes multiple attacks to facilitate builds that benefit from being attacked (snake style)
My other intent was to portray the problems faced by swift-action reliant mechanisms. If swift-novas always get their bennies, then they're over-weighted.
Quote:
One where the enemy is flying or otherwise out of typical reach. One where there are multiple enemies perhaps? Either make it a race to kill the 5 of them or some such?

Then everyone activates their flying gizmos, then same as before...or more likely it's just a mook-shooting archery contest, and there's plenty of those already. In any event, the number of moving-parts increases exponentially, and guys with Cleave will pester as to how close things are to each other, etc.

Liberty's Edge

(*sigh* ... I was worried something like this might happen when I set consumable price limit to 750gp because I wanted to see the interplay of Haste. In retrospect, if I'd wanted that, I should have just said that everybody gets it for free.)

= = = = =

Alright, here's what I'm going to do: For the arena's amusement, I will let this continue until someone reaches 1,000 -- at which point the contest will 'end' with the announcement that Form of 'Giant Monster': Wonder Twin Powers 'Activate' is LOLbroke given that it's fully twice as destructive as any other viable technique seen thus far.

The Challenge will then reboot with the following alterations: [Suggestion Box is currently open]

Liberty's Edge

What he ^^^ said.

The Black Bard wrote:
Monstrous Physique II is a 4th level Sorc/Wiz spell, so unless you are at least a 7th level wizard, you will be having a difficult time getting ahold of this effect.

Not that difficult.

You could also just have one level in a class with it on the list, such as Bloodrager (not even forfeiting BAB) and INT of 14 (most players interested in these tactics would probably opt to purchase the key and keep their INT dumped in point-buy games).

Liberty's Edge

Monstrous Physique does not enlarge your weapons or other equipment (that's a special gimmick of Enlarge Person).

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

Vouivre, then, needs to be fixed; its a size-large wyvernlike lizard with a humanoid body for a tail, and is listed as a monstrous-humanoid.

-- For the 700gp cost of a scroll of Monstrous Physique II, a player can pick up two 3d6 claws, two 2d6 wings, a 1d8 bite, a 1d8 gore, get flight and swim speeds, and use his manufactured weapons with the humanoid tail, for seven minutes.

...by way of comparison, a potion of Haste costs 750 and grants one extra attack for seven rounds.

That monster is broke (unless the humanoid tail can't use the PC's manufactured weapons, or there's a rule forbearing conversion into a form with greater hit-dice than the character).

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Quoting Monstrous Physique:

Quote:
"When you cast this spell, you can assume the form of any Small or Medium creature of the monstrous humanoid type. If the form you assume has any of the following abilities, you gain the listed ability: climb 30 feet, fly 30 feet (average maneuverability), swim 30 feet, darkvision 60 feet, low-light vision, and scent.

1) Since claws, bites, slams (etc) aren't on the list, my presumption is that the PC will not get them in the new form even if they're in a Paizo-product picture of the creature. I.e., not any more than they get the monster's umpittyump hit-dice, breath attacks, pounce, and so on unless so indicated.

2) What is RAW for what happens to the equipment, apparel, and weapons of a person in a "form"? (It doesn't say in the druid section or in Beast Shape.)

Liberty's Edge

pad300 wrote:

Readied Attack

To hit : 11 BAB + 15 Strength +3 (enhancement) + 1 Competence + 2 Spirit Bonus + 3 Weapon Training + 2 (weapon Focus) -3 (Power Attack) +2 (Rage) +1 (Haste)= +37
Damage : 2d6 + 30 (Strength, overhand chop) +3 (Weapon Training) + (4 Spirit Bonus) + 3 (enhancement) + 9 (Power Attack) + 2 (Weapon specialization)+2 (Rage) +1 (Trait) = 2d6+ 54.
AoO
To hit : 11 BAB + 15 Strength +3 (enhancement) + 1 Competence + 2 Spirit Bonus + 3 Weapon Training + 2 (weapon Focus) -3 (Power Attack) +2 (Rage) +1 (Haste)= +37
Damage : 2d6 + 22 (Strength) +3 (Weapon Training) + 4 (Spirit Bonus) + 3 (enhancement) + 9 (Power Attack) + 2 (Weapon specialization)+2 (Rage) +1 (Trait) = 2d6+ 46.

Opportune Parry
To hit : 11 BAB + 15 Strength +3 (enhancement) + 1 Competence + 2 Spirit Bonus + 3 Weapon Training + 2 (weapon Focus) -3 (Power Attack) +2 (Rage) +1 (Haste)= +37
Damage : Triggers Riposte by forcing a miss! Probability of success is 95%

Riposte ~95% probable to happen
To hit : 11 BAB + 15 Strength +3 (enhancement) + 1 Competence + 2 Spirit Bonus + 3 Weapon Training + 2 (weapon Focus) -3 (Power Attack) +2 (Rage) +1 (Haste)= +37
Damage : 2d6 + 22 (Strength) +3 (Weapon Training) + 4 (Spirit Bonus) + 3 (enhancement) + 9 (Power Attack) + 2 (Weapon specialization)+2 (Rage) +1 (Trait) = 2d6+ 46.

Fortuitous Attack (this is 95% probable to occur)
To hit : 11 BAB + 15 Strength +3 (enhancement) + 1 Competence + 2 Spirit Bonus + 3 Weapon Training + 2 (weapon Focus) -3 (Power Attack) +2 (Rage) +1 (Haste)= +37

While your odds of hitting are very high, they're not quite that high.

First, the Parry/Ripost/Fortuitous line-up is a daisy-chain in which each is dependent upon the former being successful, and a "1" anywhere along spoils the rest. (So you're not 95% consistently because the odds of a "1" accumulate.)

Secondly, you might not be able to apply Fortuitous in this instance because of some *very sneaky* Paizo wording in OP&R:

Quote:
"Opportune Parry and Riposte (Ex): At 1st level, when an opponent makes a melee attack against the swashbuckler, she can spend 1 panache point and expend a use of an attack of opportunity to attempt to parry that attack. The swashbuckler makes an attack roll as if she were making an attack of opportunity

...I have *no* idea why they're wording it that way (i.e., instead of simply saying you take an attack of opportunity) unless they are deliberately trying to screw you out of a daisy-chain followup (such as Fortuitous or anything else along those lines). Sounds like a question for Rules.....

Liberty's Edge

OK, that has to take the cake for the dumbest-looking monster (which has mainly done a decent job fixing D&D's old-school stupid artwork). --How does a normally humanoid fighter, trained with boots-on-the-ground, manage to function jiggling on a tail like that? Do both heads have a brain? Could you cast two spells at once because you have two heads, two brains, and two mouths? ...In a home game, I'd saddle the player with *severe* penalties trying to do his normal humanoid sword-fighting techniques while dangling out, maybe starting him off at -10 to everything and gradually getting slowly better as continues dabbling in the monstrous form for short periods of spell-duration time.

BUT this is a case of where PFS will permit you to get away with something thoroughly ridiculous, and the arena crowd is going wild, so it's in.)

= = = =

BTW, how are you getting the Elven Curve Blade to 2d6?

Liberty's Edge

I haven't checked to see if anyone is running afoul of this, but note that unarmed strikes and natural weapon attacks are not in the same fighter group for Weapon Training purposes.

Liberty's Edge

pad300 wrote:
am I correct in saying that this means you can't use snake style at all in this challenge? If you can't start the style stance in the prep round, the monster gets his attack before you get another swift, and he doesn't get another attack after that...

You are not precluded from readying an action to activate the style when initiative is called for. If you elect to do so, it will consume the prep round's standard action (to ready) and swift action (activating the style). This leaves only the prep round's move action available for buffing or anything else.

I am with you on one thing: Style feats are trappy and harder to deploy than taking players initially assume. But that's a Paizo-running-out-of-non-OP-feat-ideas problem, not a PFS problem or even a this particular scenario problem because combat very frequently begins in just this manner with the monster getting the jump.

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Although this does not interrupt my question for Mike, I am apparently not the only one to be annoyed by PFS:
If you do not pack the gear to serve in my beloved corps, there's always the National Guard.
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http://paizo.com/pathfindersociety/rpg/additional wrote:
Feats: all feats on pages 136-159 are legal for play, except Evolved Companion, Evolved Summon Monster. <<<< (that guy right there) Animal Soul, Divine Protection, Pummeling Charge, and Spirit's Gift are now legal for play.
Deighton, say it with me now, shout it out loud, : "I [expletive deleted] HATE ... "

You're missing the tiny period. Pummeling Charge is PFS legal.

Liberty's Edge

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So this fight we go in with our mutagen and monstrous physique going. We use Charda form for bite and 4 claw attacks while remaining small. First round we use our swift to adopt pummeling style, move action we drink the potion of heroism we were holding, free action we activate boots of speed and begin controlled bloodrage. As a standard action, we ready a charge for when the creature gets within, say 20 feet.

Monster gets within 20 feet and charge goes off. Because of Pummeling charge we get a full attack using only unarmed strikes. We're dealing non lethal damage to gain the bonus from knockout training. After this, the monster attacks us, I guess?
Back to our turn. Swift action challenge the monster. Perform full attack with natural attacks and kicks because we don't need to use pummeling style.

Issues:

1) You can't activate your Style feat-chain prior to initiative:

Style Feats wrote:
As a swift action, you can enter the stance employed by the fighting style a style feat embodies. Although you cannot use a style feat before combat begins, the style you are in persists until you...

Reminders all around again that you do not see the monster during your prep round. Abilities that require sight of an enemy and/or INIT being called for won't work in the prep round. Smite? Nope. Challenge? Nope. Judgment? Nope. Style? Nope. Instant Enemy? Nope. Amulet of the Spirits? Nope.

2) The idea that you can take a swift, a move, then ready a charge via Rhino, then receive a full attack via Pummeling all in the same round seems...excessive even though it is apparently PFS-legal for the moment. (I FAQ'd it in the Rules forum.)

3) The RageLancePounce technique of AM BARBARIAN prompted some rule changes years back regarding how bonuses and whatnot for various extra attacks after the first are resolved during charge>pounces; I don't know all the details because I've never built a pounce-machine, but you'll want to bone-up.

4) Pummeling Charge only works with unarmed strikes, not natural attacks. (I.e., monstrous physique's claws and bites do not qualify.) It does not look like you used them (because you were after nonlethal), but just wanted to get it out for the other readers.

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

Rhino Charge: "You may ready a charge, though you may only move up to your speed on the charge."

Pummeling Charge: "You can charge and make a full attack or flurry of blows at the end of your charge as part of the charge action."

...and what happens is that our clever player swifts a spell, move-chugs a potion (accelerated drinker trait) or just moves, then readies a charge...which he then takes, getting a complete full-attack even though he's effectively had two move actions mixed in there as well.

By the RAW of the moment, that seems legal, if liable to lift the eyebrow.

(FAQ away)

Liberty's Edge

Quote:
You have to look up every single thing you put in a build on a random webpage that changes every couple of months... Which you can't even search properly - try putting say "sacred geometry" into that page ... you don't get a hit.

Which is why I recommended searching Nethys first in my post at the top of this page. (Or just thingamabob + nethys thrown at Google will get you where you need to be 99% of the time.)

If you don't see the PFS logo, it's almost certainly not legal if the book it was published in itself has an entry on PFS' Additional Resources page and doesn't mention it (none of the feats in Occult Mysteries are legal). (Sacred Geometry was sacked in PFS for being either a massive table-hogging time-sink, or LOLwut!? broken if you used a phone app to solve it for best-possible result every time...not to mention fragging any semblance of immersive verisimilitude with a flame-thrower.)

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Is simulacrum, game breaker that it is, banned? Of course not...
Why would it have to be? The earliest a wizard can cast that 7th-level spell is at 13th CL, which is coincidentally the exact moment he enters "retirement".
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How about the "mandatory" buy of Gloves of Dueling - that you see in every single fighter build - Nope.

You mean those 15,000gp items that eat your hand slot and require anywhere from three to five levels in the otherwise arid wasteland of the dullest core class in order to properly activate them for a, in most cases, +2/+2 increase in one's existing bonuses, but only while wielding specific weapons?

You know else does that and only costs 25gp with a single level dip into a class with lots of cool skills and other 1st-level bennies, and works with every weapon in the book including improvised? -- A scroll of Instant Enemy used by any ranger archetype that doesn't forfeit either spellcasting or favored enemy. You could do this as a 1st-level character on your first adventure! (You will be saddled with the onerous requirement of having at least an 11 in wisdom.) And you know who else can swing that +2/+2 att/dmg at 1st level? Barbarians. -- The fighter squeezes the dear life out of his coppers to swing those gloves by 6th (more likely 7th) in PFS. Meanwhile, the ranger-dipping bloodrager is concealing his +1/Furious bardiche in a Glove of Storing. The dueling gloves are very nice, don't get me wrong, but they're hardly a must-have-or-you-suck item, and many astute practitioners of higher-order munchkinery still account fighter a suboptimal class.

======

But enough arguing, because that is not what the ticket-buying crowd was here for. The arena grows bored and restless....

Send in the next gladiators!

Liberty's Edge

The "More stupid Sohei tricks" post is six years old; PFS changed how they were modifying cavaliers in that campaign, and the build no longer works. (Essentially, they closed loopholes.)

Liberty's Edge

pad300 wrote:
Any check you make against it is versus opposed 35". Does that mean the attack roll is D20+35, or is it just 35?

Modify my previous post with: "It hits AC35".

Liberty's Edge

In keeping with everything else about the monster that isn't AC, its attack is +35.

I'll double that for its move range: 70.

Liberty's Edge

<squint><scrollback thru thread><yikes!>

Um, wow... another fine entry from the Book of Super OP Occult Adventures, I see....

Sorry, Deighton; you had the crown on your head for a second, but then this other halfling came up and melted you into a bubbling puddle of blue flaming goo, and swiped it.

...then again, maybe not: I know almost zilch about the kineticist class (I've only been reading up on it since your reply), but I did note this posted line in AVR's entry: "...Burn 5 due to not gathering power, so use the internal buffer to reduce it by 2... ...and I'm not sure how she's doing that as a 12th level character when it looks like the class is limited to accepting 4 burn per round at that level, and can't spend more than one point with the internal buffer per single wild talent. But that class has more moving parts than a Swiss watch, so I'll leave it to someone else to pick at. (งツ)ว

If AVR forgoes the AoO on the monster's turn (so she doesn't have to roast all that burn turning her weapon-with-the-incredibly-long-name back on), then she does, as she stated, about 404 in damage in the main round.

Given that Deighton's puncher did all of his damage in the main round (deliberately forfeiting AoOs or readies), by judge's decision I'm letting him keep the crown for dishing out the most in a single full-attack.

For the moment....

Liberty's Edge

Contestants please note: Potions of Good Hope are 1,050gp, which is 300 over the contest limit. (By 12th, I'd wager scrolls of Heal and Breath of Life are in most PC's emergency pack, but four-digit-cost buff potions are unlikely. I also had to draw the line somewhere because I didn't want people indulging silliness like 3,000gp GMW+5s, so I set the limit at 750, a common number for 3rd-level spells in a bottle.)

= = = = =

Assuming Deighton Thrane's halfling pugilist swaps his potion of Good Hope for Heroism instead (they're the same except for the damage bonus), reducing damage slightly to 467 (481-14), he is nevertheless wearing the DPR Crown for the time being.

Until someone takes it from him.

(How about *you* out there? Can you take it from him?
-- Are you man enough to take it? From a halfling?)

Liberty's Edge

Quote:
Damage: 12/6 from dexterity, 2 from weapon specialization, 1 to unarmed for Quain martial artist, 4 from divine favor, 2 to unarmed from brawling, 2 from good hope, 4 from weapon training, 4 from spirit bonus/seance bonus, 2 from furious, 6/3 from piranha strike, 6 from risky striker, and average weapon damage. Unarmed = 4.5, bite = 3.5, claws/gore = 2.5.

How are you getting +4 to damage from a single level of Medium?

Liberty's Edge

Deighton Thrane wrote:

Traits : Quain Martial Artist, Fate's Favored

1 Bloodrager :Weapon Finesse, Improved Unarmed Strike, Controlled Bloodrage, Angelic Strikes

What is "Angelic Strikes"? (I assume you meant Angelic Attacks from the Celestial bloodline.)
Quote:
To Hit: 11 BAB, 12 from dexterity, 1 from size small, 2 weapon focus (assuming only 1 applies to natural weapons), 4 luck from divine favor, 2 to unarmed strikes from brawling, 1 from haste, 1 competence from Ioun stone, 2 morale from good hope, 4 from weapon training, 2 from spirit bonus, 2 from furious enchantment, -2 from two weapon fighting, -3 from pirahna strike. Should be a grand total of 39/34/29 for unarmed strikes and 31 for natural attacks.

How are you getting a +4 Luck bonus from Divine Favor? (I see Celestial Obedience (Falayna) granting you the spell, but how are you getting your caster level in it up to 6th (for a +3 bonus before Fate's Favored's +1 additional)?

Liberty's Edge

Quote:
Quote:
I don't play PFS. This is the Pathfinder advice forum.
That was one of the rules put forward in the original post, characters must be PFS legal.

Since I have the top of this page, let's recap the now-slightly-updated PFS DPR Olympics rules:

=======

"Journey with us once more into the land of module-play, where post-retirement mayhem awaits!"

* Attributes: 20pt-buy pre-racial. You have three more level bumps by 12th. Build must be PFS legal.

* Build: it would be nice to see all levels in your build (with order feats taken in, class variants chosen, final HP and save totals, etc), but it is not required.

* Equipment: you have 110,000gp to spend, no more than a third of it in one object.

* Prep time:
- You are not surprised and have one full round to prepare.
- Your allies are "selfish"; no one assists you.
- You may have one preexisting intermediate-duration buff (1min/lvl up to half-hour) and one long-term (10min/lvl or greater) buff already in-effect prior to the prep round.
- You do not see the enemy during the prep round and do not know from what direction they will be arriving; abilities or spells that require an opponent-in-sight will therefore not work unless they can be deployed as or in conjunction with readied-actions.
- The prep round exists to get buffs or summons up-to-speed, and/or readied-actions good-to-go, nothing more.

* Bad-guy turn: a large opponent with 10' reach moves up to 10' away on its turn and strikes you for damage. AC 30, Touch 15, Flat 23. If you have buffs, items or abilities which generate one or more AoOs in this scenario, take them.

* Your turn: Take a full action. You are at the edge of the opponent's reach, and it threatens. Any check you make against it is versus opposed 35 (skills, CMD, resistance, whatever). There is no difficult terrain or nearby cover.

-- That's it. Tally up. If your character has "tricks" (sneak-attack, favored-enemy, favored terrain, trips on AoOs, has Smite, Bane enhancements, etc), compute damage twice: once for nothing-is-applicable and once for opponent-eats-everything-ya-got. If you think you can do it, do it.

=======

Damage/round formula: h(d+s)+tf(cd+cb+r)

h = Chance to hit, expressed as a percentage. This doesn't exceed .95 (unless you autohit for whatever reason) and never goes below .05.
d = Normal damage. This is any damage that happens any time you hit.
s = Damage which isn't multiplied on a crit. "s" stands for sneak attack, but this also includes elemental/alignment properties on weapons, precision damage, manyshot damage, and so on.
t = Chance to roll a threat. This is the threat range of your weapon or your chance to hit, whichever is lower.
f = This is your chance to confirm a threat. Most of the time, this is equal to h. If you have Critical Focus, it's (h+.2) or .95, whichever is higher. If you auto-confirm crits, as with a level 20 fighter or Bless Weapon, this is 1.
c = This is the number of bonus multiples you get from a crit. A 2x crit weapon is 1, a 3x crit weapon is 2, etc.

-- Remember to subtract one from your crit multiplier, or your damage will be over-done in the formula!

b = This is elemental burst damage, such as from fiery burst weapons and thundering. Such enhancements self-multiply based on your crit multiplier; if they don't, then they're added to r and not b.
r = This is fixed bonus damage dealt on a crit. No such abilities exist in PF core, to my knowledge.

=======

Character construction:

What is allowed in PFS? A quick way to determine if a feature is permitted is to toss its name plus "nethys" into a search-engine, whereupon its listing at the Archives of Nethys will be found, and if the Pathfinder Society's round Glyph of the Open Road logo is displayed, the feature is very probably legal. For example, the feat Two-Weapon Fighting is PFS-legal. There are corner-cases, however, and these may have a red circle around the logo; this means that the campaign has issued a ruling which modifies unrestricted access. If the feature you found at Nethys doesn't sport the PFS logo, it's probably not PFS-legal.

-- That said, new material is introduced continuously and previously-legal old material is occasionally proscribed, and not even the indefatigable stalwarts helming Nethys can keep up. So here's the follow-up trick: Nethys will provide the name of the book or books in which the feature has appeared. Which that knowledge, head over to Pathfinder Society's Additional Resources page and scan down for that book. If your feature (or, more often, its umbrella category) is listed as legal, you're good to go.

Another great site aiding in character-generation is d20pfsrd. It does not indicate PFS-legality (note that all non-Paizo material is unapproved), but is very easy to navigate and quickly explore options.

=======

* Final thread rule: We're here to have fun kickin' monster butt! Please keep the signal-to-noise ratio positive. No critiquing until you've posted a build (error-correcting permitted).

Liberty's Edge

pad300 wrote:

Stabby McStabface, Dagger Artiste Extraordinaire

Traits & Drawbacks
River rat, Finding Your Kin (Legacy of Fire Campaign Trait), Fencer, Hedonistic (drawback)...

Drawbacks are not PFS-legal. Campaign traits from Legacy of Fire are not PFS-legal.
Quote:
Dual-balanced Voidglass Dagger+1 Agile Fortuitous (19302 gp),

Voidglass weapons and armor are not PFS-legal.

(Note: the Dual-balanced weapon property is a waste of 2000gp in this build because its fighting style requires using a single weapon.)

Quote:
Volcanic Shield Buckler, (14155 gp)
A "Volcanic Shield" is a specific named magic item (a +1 bashing heavy steel shield). In PFS, you are not able to pay a few gold less and call it a "buckler" for empty-hand swashbuckling purposes. (Unless, of course, you found it listed that way on a chronicle sheet, in which case you're good to go.)
Quote:

External Buffs: Enlarge Person (1 minute buff), Heroism (10 Minute Buff),

...
BAB +11
Always Bonuses/Penalties : +8 (Swashbuckler Finesse) +2 (sacred: Deific Obedience) +1 enhancement + 1 Competence + 3 Spirit Bonus + 2 Flying Blade Training + 1 (weapon Focus) +2 Morale -3 Piranha Strike= +17

To Hit 28/23/21
Other Bonuses : +1 to hit on AOA with Daggers, +1 haste

I do not see the -1 size penalty from being Enlarged (or the further -1 penalty to the readied ranged attack due to DEX-2).
Quote:

Medium (1), Relic Channeler: Spirit, Spirit Bonus (+1), Spirit Power (lesser), Spirit Surge (1d6)

...
Feats: ....Spirit Focus (Champion) (1st) ...
If you're a medium channeling the spirit of the Champion, you are in violation of both parts of the Taboo during the DPR challenge (you're voluntarily accepting arcane magic buffs, and making attacks with multiple weapons rather than a "specific manufactured weapon"), and would incur the Taboo's –2 penalty to attacks, damage, saves, etc.
Quote:
Enemy attack: 1) our ready-action triggers when they are 20’ away 2) If hit, trigger bleeding wound as a free action (1 panache) 2) Draw magic dagger as a free action....

How are you gaining a free-action after your ready action has triggered during the opponent's turn?

(BTW, with all three of Long Arm, Enlarge and Lunge activated, your melee reach should be either 20' or 25' depending upon how one ruleslawyers stacking the first two, so you wouldn't need to be throwing anyway in this circumstance.)

Quote:

3) as they close to 10’, they trigger AoO #1 for leaving a threatened square (long arm + lunge).

4) if we hit with AoO #1, Fortuitous weapon property grants us another attack at -5. 5) In response to their attack, use Disrupting Counter (1 panache) to trigger AoO #2 (and Fortuitous has another chance to trigger)
The Fortuitous property may only be triggered once per round. (You could of course wield a pair of Fortuitous weapons and attempt to receive AoOs with both of them, but then most of your other swashbuckler goodies shut off with two occupied hands.)
Quote:

Opportune Parry Defense Roll : +27 to hit (an AoO, -2 for a large opponent)

Potential AoO #3 : +30 to hit, dmg 1d4 + 37
Fortuitous Attack (assumed) : +25 to hit, dmg 1d4 + 37...

You can't "assume" anything if a d20 is involved. The triggering AoO itself is at best 95% to succeed, and then the Fortuitous attack itself also is at best 95% to succeed.

____

I haven't parsed all the math, but given the other problems in the build as well as the anomalously high claim of 345, I'm guessing it's off.

Liberty's Edge

Quote:
Pre buff's ...I understand that you allow one buff of 10 minutes per CL and one of 1 minute per CL, however this build really benefits more from having 2 ten minute per level buffs, is that okay?
You may have two buffs already running before the prep round. During the prep round and the battle round you have the opportunity to get more up.
Quote:
I'm sure more damage could be achieved be being a human or a Vishkanye, taking weapon proficiency kurki and building for Piranha Strike.

Note that Vishkanya are not available in PFS unless granted as a boon: "...Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Inner Sea Races ** To create an aasimar, android, catfolk, changeling, dhampir, fetchling, goblin, grippli, ifrit, oread, ratfolk, samsaran, skinwalker, suli, sylph, tiefling, undine, vanara, or vishkanya character, you must have a Chronicle sheet that opens the race as a legal option at character creation. Aasimars and tieflings that were created and had at least one XP applied before August 14, 2014, remain legal for play."

The DPR challenge doesn't forbid them, but realize that builds containing rare races will be out of the reach of most players in the campaign.

Liberty's Edge

Quote:

Round zero: challenge (swift), activate boots of speed (free), use total defense (full round), emerald frog moves to the side. When enemy attacks deflect attack w/crane wing & make one AoO w/out flanking or teamwork from crane riposte.

Round one: Frog moves to flank at 15’ away from enemy due to the reach of its tongue. It can’t do anything more, ignore it. He then uses greater tactician to give the frog teamwork feats (swift), 5’ steps up, and makes a normal full attack with flanking & teamwork feats. (full round)

The contest does not specify that you're able to see your opponent or otherwise know from which direction they're coming from in the prep round. You cannot Challenge what you cannot see, and trying to set up a flank-buddy situation will be random-guess placement that'll result in receiving flanks much less than half the time if flank-buddy has a low rate of move (the frog is 30', IIRC) and your opponent stands 10' away from you.

* * *

Everyone: You get to prepare because you've ascertained that combat is imminent for one reason or another, but you have no other information. Abilities or spells that require an opponent-in-sight will not work unless they can be deployed as or in conjunction with readied-actions. (And really: if you could see your opponent in the prep round, you'd just full-attack with ranged equipment, right? Which is why the contest doesn't feature that possibility. The prep round exists to get buffs or summons up-to-speed, and/or readied-actions good-to-go -- nothing more.)

Liberty's Edge

Most archetypes are "munchkin-traps".

Liberty's Edge

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This is the TV character (which is the one more people will be familiar with, because far more people see the show than have read the books).

2nd version (mutted to heck):

Starting 20pt stat array is 15,14,12,12,12,12

STR:14
DEX:12
CON+17
INT:12
WIS:12
CHA:14

Alternate racial trait: Heart of the Wilderness
Traits: Dominator, TRAIT

...Dominator's +2 (trait bonus) to Intimidate in combat is going to be sickeningly good in this build because we'll eventually be doing it nearly every round.

01: barb1 [Invulnerable Rager], Raging Vitality, Iron Will

...well, we are from the Iron Isles (and also intend more than a little multiclass shenanigans).

02: cava1 [Standard Bearer:Banner][Challenge][Teamwork:Pack Attack]
03: cava2 [Order of the Cockatrice:Dazzling Display], Weapon Focus:Greataxe

...imagine inspiring an entire ship crew via Banner while also granting a teamwork feat like Pack Attack via Cavalier's tactician. Jesus.... (We get a better standard-action version of Dazzling Display this route as well; could drop Weapon Focus as it's no longer a requirement for the Cockatrice version of Dazzling, but it'll help cover for the BAB:0 class we're about to take....)

04: rogu1 [Bandit]+[Rake:Bravado's Blade], SA+1d6, CON>18

The fine-print of the previously-chosen Pirate rogue archetype forfeited the rogu2 talent for the mainly worthless-in-PFS Sea Legs -- and we're not tolerating that, so went shopping for something better...and my eyeballs did the boingy-oingy when they saw what Bravado's Blade offers this build. Holy crap is it good in conjunction with Pack Attack (assuming you can that off).

05: barb2 [Reckless Abandon+1][DR1/-], Power Attack
06: rogu2 [Evasion][Combat Trick:Cornugon Smash]

...earliest level for Cornugon Smash (we are now routinely Intimidating as an immediate action).

07: barb3 [Extreme Endurance(fire)], Vital Strike
08: barb4 [Reckless Abandon+2][DR2/-][Intimidating Glare], STR>15

...snags a move-action Intimidate for some corner cases (we now have standard-action, move-action, immediate-action, and free-action Intimidate mechanisms). Upcoming annoyances are weak choices for barbarian rage powers that fit the character concept.

09: rogu3 SA+2d6, FEAT
10: rogu4 [Bandit:Ambush], TALENT
11: figh1 FEAT(g), FEAT(c) ...or barb5 or cava3
12: figh1 or figh2, Improved Vital Strike, STR>16

Liberty's Edge

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TriOmegaZero wrote:
Because a cavalier isn't a paladin.

A "paladin" with a starting CHA of (bleh) isn't much of one either.

Liberty's Edge

If trading away Divine Grace is an option that doesn't make you white in the face upon seeing your saves plunge six points apiece without it, it's probably because the build takes the bare minimum CHA to function.

...which begs the question: why not be a cavalier instead?

(Then you can dump CHA all you want while still enjoying something similar to Smite.)

Liberty's Edge

Bloodrager? OK...that gives up, like, everything great currently in the "Invulnerable Pirate" build above (do you know how awesome it is to introduce your character like that at the table?) in order to get a bloodline power and cast a couple spells a day.

Alternatively, at 7th, the build above either takes rogu3 or buys an INT bump for his headband -- and then dumps 7 skill points into UMD and simultaneously sinks a pile of cash into a haversack filled with two-dozen wands and reams of scrolls in it, because the money has been piling up ever since he decided not to spend a red cent on magic armor.

...not that he couldn't have been casting spells since 2nd level rogu1.

Liberty's Edge

Trait: Dangerously Curious is the only "dip" a paladin needs.

Liberty's Edge

If you are a "low experienced player", please do not make a summoning build. -- It's like trying to fly an airliner when you only know what five or six of the hundreds of shiny buttons in the cockpit do. Not gonna end pretty.

But, being a "reach cleric" (see guides), otoh, is a lot of fun (as is the Travel domain).

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