Michael Miller 36's page

I switched to UPS on suggestion by Cosmo a while back due to problems that it turns out was caused by my mail carrier. My mail frequently arrives late and or damaged. In fact i had an identity issue that i suspect was caused by her. (REALLY PSYCHOTIC MAIL LADY!)

While this is an extreme issue, I have never had a problem with the UPS delieveries. The envelope in a box has been wonderful for preventing damage. Its much better for piece of mind and is well worth the extra 3-4 dollars per shipment.

Now the harrow deck that i ordered i had a brain blank and accidentally selected USPS. and i had to practically use a crowbar to get it out as the RPML crammed it into the box. No damage to the product thank goodness but it underscores the point.

Hmmm....then I have one further question, and this might be a case of me missing my perception check. Is there a way for the customer to check the UPS tracking through the order history so incorrect assumptions aren't made? It is a bit misleading at first or even second glance, since when you look at previous orders the ship date is almost always right at 5-10 days after the date the order is placed. This however might be a simple matter of when the last of the batch is sent out

Recieved the PDFs (thanks!) but order has still not shipped yet. Its been showing as "shipping" since the 30th. Oddly enough, the item I ordered the day after has already left the warehouse. I'm mostly curious why an order placed ships almost immediately, but a subscription order that in theory has been prepared in advance seems to take over a week just to leave the warehouse.

This is only recently been the case. I could understand if items that leave the warehouse in 3-5 days took up to a week to leave but thus items I order ship with paizo's usual expediency, leaving only my regular orders to linger for unknown times.

What everyone keeps forgetting is all the non combat uses for the hand. It is the most useful all around starting power.

Agreed! Most of my rogues take a level in mage just so they can get that. Comes in handy for stealing objects just out of reach :)

I haven't had a chance to playtest the apprentice power yet, but i don't see it as being too overpowered in the long run. If anything magic missile is the broken first level spell/ability. In our games we've changed it to a ranged touch and increased the damage to 1d6+1 which has seemed a good trade off. When you can maximize it for a free 25 points of damage without a saving through, gets to be a bit too much.

For those who want to redo it as a spell i'd suggest making apprentice a second level ability like Spiritual weapon (so other wizards/sorcerers can get it, but the universalist gets it first) Depends on how you feel about the losing of the spell slot. Return the spell slot and put all the "abilities" in as spells, but for those not of the school make the spell one level higher for those outside the specialization.

Should be interesting when we get to that AP as well. Most likely Blackjack will become female as 3 out of 5 of my players are women and the guys almost never play rogues :)

Similar things happened in my group...

Curious as to why my order has not shipped yet. Is it waiting on something from the manufacturer or warehouse? The charge went through, but the product seems not to have left the shipper as of date. The PDF's have also not been added to my downloads section for my chronicles products.

To the OP, thats what elven rogues are for =D

And why nearly every rogue (and indeed most of my characters) end up getting darkvision permanently enchanted into them. Its too useful to not have it done.

I'll be picking up at least one of each for me (already ordered) and Likely, I'll be picking up at least 2 more of the softcover for use by my gaming group until everyone gets their own books. My campaign will be officially PRPG once we start CotCT, for now we've been running a test game of 3-4 sessions with each update to test out the rules. Almost tempted to skip the rest of runelords and get on with it, but my players are really enjoying the current AP so far. Now if only i could get the OTHER DM to switch over to PFRPG.....(right now he's a 4e "goon" :) )

Chris Mortika wrote:

I think Paizo needs to have some simple Monster Manual in print, late 2008 or early 2009.

No I dont think we need a Pathfinder version of the Monster Manual until September or October 2009.

Pathfinder will be 3.5 until August of 2009. Its not essential for a Pathfinder MM to exist alongside the Beta rules.

The Beta isnt even the final rules for Pathfinder. Anyone who plays using the Beta Rules is still technicly playtesting for a game thats isnt officialy done yet.

Some new kid should NOT buy the Pathfinder Beta book and start using it if they dont own the 3.5 Core Rulebooks.

I agree, a paizo monster book can easily wait til a few months after the final release. I don't think they'd want to wait MUCH longer after that though. I'd much rather it be done RIGHT, then get a hastily done, slapped together product. Thats not what i pay for and its not Paizo's style.

Saurstalk wrote:

Erik Mona wrote:

Some sort of monster book is inevitable. It'll probably be the first Pathfinder RPG release after the core book. Nothing concrete, yet, but I agree that this seems an obvious choice.

I would only request that you don't recycle what's already been presented in Pathfinder and GameMastery. I subscribe to both, and even if you "improved" on them, I doubt I'd be willing to shell out money on 'em. On the other hand, if Paizo put its head together and came up with a monster manual containing a whole new assembly of critters, numbering 100 or so, I'm sold.

I disagree vehemently! I want all of those wonderful original Paizo monsters in one place!

Exactly! If nothing else, all the pathfinder monsters SHOULD be in the book. While we can't expect you to include every monster EVER, you SHOULD include the monsters you use in the AP's and gamemastery paths. If we're using AP2, we shouldn't have to lug around all of AP1 or all the gamemastery editions just for a monster block. I keep an index card file of my monsters but not everyone does. Nor should everyone have to buy all the old gamemastery modules or adventure path books just to get one monster.

I like the fact that when you reuse a monster you give the AP or gamemastery edition it was in, but it would be much easier and more customer friendly to say for example Flamedrake (Gamemastery W1, Bestiary page ##) instead of hoping that we have that module.

Many more indeed! Its really incredible. Just when I was half wondering just why I still play these games, you guys went and re-invented the wheel and remind me. Cheers Paizo! Kudos for not only keeping the game going but actually improving it. Thats no small task.

Vic Wertz wrote:

David Jackson 60 wrote:

This means if I purchase but don't have a subscription I have to pay the 12 bucks to get the PDF?

Free PDFs are the benefit of being a Chronicles subscriber! (Note that you still have a few days to subscribe and still be able to start your subscription with Classic Monsters!)

As a Pathfinder subscriber, of course, you would get the Pathfinder Advantage discount of 15% off the PDF (or off the subscription products, should you choose to go that way).

Wait. You mean I can still subscribe to Chronicles in time to get the benefits on Monsters Revisited?

You test my will and pocket severely, Paizo...

My will was tested, and I rolled a 1. Damn you Paizo, and damn you Vic! *sighs* I console myself that while i may die poor due to my failure of my trusty d20, at least I will go surrounded by incredible game books :)

Seriously though, I'm glad you pointed that out, otherwise I would have bought the book and then later subscribed anyway. Best to get the extra benefit now instead of waiting ^_^

edit: and WHOOHOO...SUPERSCRIBER! (or perhaps that should be Paizo's Thrall? ;) ) It is a life of happy servitude I lead....

second the vote for Gorum! Have two players that would love to see what paizo has come up for Him! At the moment we have a few pages of fluff that we've come up with but it'd be nice to see the official version.

This has also been in my campaigns for a long time. A wizard leaves an imprint on his magic and it shows in the implementation. Sorcerers especially have unique appearances to spells since they are self taught. Wizards MIGHT have spells similar to another (if they learned the spell from another wizard or a particular scroll), but nearly every spell will have some sort of wizardly fingerprint. One of my favorites was a wild mage in a campaign whose magic missiles appeared as disembodied hands that slapped the target.

Granted, not every player is interested in this form of customization but its been my experience that most players that enjoy playing spellcasters take pride in making their spells stand out.

Interesting comment about the spellcraft idea, i had not considered that and will likely implement that. Its good flavor and now i've got all sorts of ideas of how the fireball of a red dragon blooded sorcerer and a necromancers might differentiate.

Its things like this that makes me love the boards. Might be a tiny thing for some, but its often the "fluff" and flavor that makes a campaign memorable instead of "just another fantasy setting".

I think it may have got lost in the renaming shuffle. I don't see it available anymore either.

I had the same problem finding it, but Vic was nice enough to place a link to it in the meantime! Link to the Module

Thank you sir!

In my game group (both the one i DM in and the one i play in) we limit sneak attack to once per round. It must be declared before the attack is rolled and all other attacks are normal. We also allow sneak attacks on undead on constructs (with ranks in knowledge arcana and knowledge undead) since its not so much hitting a vital organ as hitting a weak spot. However the time it takes to spot and hit such a spot is such that doing it more than once per round is not possible.

Sneak attack still does a lot of damage, but is no longer broken and the rogue gets the ability to sneak attack other entities with a bit of study. Might not fit in all campaigns but it has worked well in ours.

Course, this doesn't stop the spring attack rogues from running in, sneak attacking, then dashing behind the fighter ;) Then again, in that situation he's not sneak attacking more than once anyway.

I can't seem to find a link to the PDF, the link from Kobold King brings up a store search but hollows last hope is not among the products listed.

I just got mine too, was waiting in my mail box as i left for work :)

Waited a long time for it, but it did not disappoint! Thanks Paizo for another great product

My players are going to go into it full bore this weekend (had no game because of easter) So far the only thing that seems unbalanced is the skill system. we like the condensed skills but not sure how its going to work. We should know shortly though. We plan to create two sets of characters. Both identical in every way aside from the fact that one set will be done with the PF:RPG rules and one with traditional 3.5 to test the differences in a simple delve set up for testing purposes. Should give us a nice chance to see how things work, if/how the differences change the game and what still needs tweaking.

Dreihaddar wrote:

I have nothing against placing a store that claims to sell only the finest magical items, but you'd have to be careful in that setting, atleast in my game. Imagine a shop owner pimping his selection of wands, all cheap replicas with Nystul's magic aura and a simple cantrip effect on them.

My concern here would be dealing with the situation when the players come looking for this guy to kill him or at least make him very much fear for his life and loot his store and maybe his home.

If that happens, the players are no longer heroes but the bad guys themselves. If they make that choice they can expect to deal with the law of your cities and quite likely a few adventures after them to collect any bounties on their head :)

I have all sorts of con artists in my campaign. generally i occassionally remind players of the rule "caveat emptor" Buyer Beware. If you look hard enough you can find just about anything, but theres also always someone out there who just wants to take your money.

Originally i was against the skill, and was just going to rule that you must choose an environment to be 'proficient' in (on the ground, in the air, in water, ect) and in other areas take a penalty. However, the more i read about this the more i'm in favor of it. Make it trained only. Trained can take 10 for normal movement (racial flyers, wizards with spells of potions) with rolls if you want to do something fancy (close to melee range with the dragon, swoop down and pick up the fighter since he doesn't have ranks in fly, ect).

This way fly is useful, doesn't slow the game down and avoids overpowering the spell at higher levels. Want to cast fly on the whole party? great, but unfortunately Orthog the barbarian has no ranks in flight, so if you want him to do much than hover in place or move erratically as he tries to control his direction you'd better plan on carrying him or at the least towing him.

I don't think XP should ever be a commodity at the Player's disposal. I use the following house rules to handle these costs.

Death: Players suffer 1 negative level (as if level drained) and also have their maximum age reduced by 10. This aging effect does not actually affect your current age, just the point at which you die from old age. the negative level requires greater restoration, miracle, or wish to negate. lesser restoration will not work.

I like that, and I will incorporate that into my campaign. It'll still drain the party of resources (paying an NPC cleric to cast the spell for example) but won't cause them to lag behind in level and power. Even if they are high enough level to accomplish the goal can still let it have a bit of bite by having the negative level linger for a short time. Perhaps 1 week - the clerics wisdom modifier to show the effect of shaking off the journey to the other side.

As far as aging instead of xp loss.... i like SOME of that and may incorporate it. I'd say if wish or miracle was used to instead duplicate another spell eliminate the cost (unless the spell duplicated has a cost of its own) and permanency is good assuming that you can draw off of the lifeforce of the one being enchanted (making darkvision permanent on party members for example). Doubt many NPCs or even PCs would be willing to do it if it meant them losing a year or two each time someone wanted the enchantment.

Losing years instead of XP might work to a point, but in the end your still punishing a character for creating magic items. I'm not sure what the perfect solution would be. Maybe a combination of approaches. Perhaps similar to your idea, but give them a number of points per level, with a bonus amount for each creation feat they take.

You can find the information on the Additional Domains in the d20 SRD.

Thanks! Makes me wonder how many others are missing out on pathfinder content because they don't know the information is online though. I hope when they release the pathfinder RPG books they put the domains in there to avoid having to check multiple sources

One of my players is having fun coming up with details on Gorum. We've so far collaborated and depending on what Paizo puts out i may stick with what we have so far. About the only complaint i've had is the fact that theres no spells for some of the domains, such as madness. Its limited some of my players enthusiasm for the new deities even though the setting itself is great.

Giving a player a deity and order to play with (subject to DM approval of course) has gotten their interest though and everyone is watching to see what we come up with together. Two of the players are interested in desna so thats easy at least :)

Thanks for the suggestion! Definitely worth the extra peace of mind to be able to track the orders so have done so for my future subscription issues. On the bright side, order #798471 arrived today so I can occupy myself with learning more about Korvosa while i wait!

There's a lot of good improvements but don't you think some can be condensed more?

Do you really need Spellcraft AND use magic item AND knowledge arcana?
or Swim? or profession and perform for that matter?

I do think Fly is a great idea though.

You could probably condense them in your game if you like. However, UMD is mostly for rogues and bards who have no spellcasting ability and thus need a way to use the item in question. So that in my opinion could not be gotten rid of. They've already gotten rid of concentration (good!) and rolled it into spellcraft so that makes it even more important. Could that be further rolled into knowledge arcana? I'm not sure. I would lean towards NO.

To each their own of course, but separating the two of them seems to make sense. As spellcraft refers to ones spellcasting ability, and the ability to recognize spells from others, diagnose magical auras. Knowledge arcana refers to the more intellectual side of magic. Knowing facts and trivia about magical beasts and lore.

In a sense Spellcraft is the intuitive, streetwise of magery while knowledge arcana is the booksmarts of magic.

Hopefully that made sense, i haven't been to bed yet.

As far as fly goes, i think that could be put in with acrobatics myself as its too specific. I would only consider flight a separate skill possibility if the character themselves were of a flying race or through some other means got wings.

rather than a whole slew of racial feats and powers, why not focus on one or two special abilities that each race might get? That ability would gradually get stronger as the character progressed.

For example, an elf's prime strength is their archery or magic so could either have the DC of their spells increase as they level (more so than a non elf) or their skill with bows increase. Perhaps giving them precise shot or spell mastery as a free feat?

Dwarves could benefit from endurance or Diehard (diehard would work well for half orcs too) Balance out the lack of progression perhaps with a few more hit points per level. Dwarves are renowned for their toughness after all

Halflings could perhaps benefit from a similar bonus as elves. Give them a ranged bonus with their slings, or a bonus to stealth

Gnomes could get a few more magical abilities, perhaps ones that are actually useful, with possibly quicken spell as a free feat (without the higher spell slot cost). they might not be more stronger magically, but its in their blood so they cast spells just a bit quicker than others

Just a thought, but something along these lines is what I'd be interested in if a change to the races would be made

Hmmm.... NICE! I'll have to think about the bonus to humans though, they already get a bonus feat, should they get a bonus to their abilities too? If they get both, why would anyone ever play anything else? Just my thoughts. I definitely like the others though!

I have not yet received my CotCT players guide or PF#7 which was shipped on March 11. Thats 9 total days and 7 working days for shipping and arrival. Whats the policy on delayed/missing orders? Is there anyway to find out what happened to the magazines?

Order #798471 is also starting to run late, but so far its only 5 days out so I haven't reached the worried state yet.

If anything, chalk up my anxiety to the fact that you guys put out great products and i can't wait to get them in my hot little hands! The PDF's just aren't the same :)

Edit: well, pooh. Just checked, and it shows shipping as 3-10 days, not 3-5 like i thought for some reason. Guess their not actually late AFTER all. Looks like I've been spoiled by the usually very rapid shipment of my magazines.

YAHOOOO!

This is the direction I was hoping they'd take, but I never dreamed it would happen! Already preordered the new system and looking forward to continuing my 3.Paizo game for as long as I can pick up a die.

Thank you for taking this step, I know it wasn't an easy decision.

*happy dances*

Thank you Paizo! You have made an old (style) gamer very happy today! I was dreading the possibility of me having to get out of fantasy roleplaying altogether once i ran out of the published material I had (have no real interest in learning a whole new system). You have just saved my game and ensured a very loyal customer for years to come. I look forward to the new system and have just placed an order for the new book!

This is some great stuff just wondering where in all the Pathfinders do you find all the information for months days and years?

Wasn't in the pathfinders, but it was mentioned in the blog Here

Definitely not. I'm a roleplayer, not a ROLLplayer. i like the interaction, the combat is just what happens in between. Not that I don't have fun with the fights, they can be what makes a session, but it wouldn't be the same without the sweet spots in between when I can show people who my character really is and what makes them special.

In fact, the only reason my group is even giving 4e a shot is BECAUSE it comes from WotC. We're not sure if we'll like it but we are going to give it a shot. I don't see it as a system I'll be willing to GM, but it might be something I'll be willing to play.

A relatively simple fix is to treat Damage Reduction as Damage Resistance. That is, instead of reducing the damage of each individual attack, DR would now reduce the total damage taken that round.

This would allow a swashbuckler to inflict 20 points of damage to a werewolf after stabbing it three times for 10 points per attack (DR 10/silver). This would allow the swashbuckler to be as competitive as a barbarian who can slash the werewolf once for 30 points of damage.

I hope I'm remembering resistances correctly in 3.5...

If i understand you correctly, thats basically what i've done, only from a fast healing point of view. I suppose I COULD take that view a bit further and apply the DR to just anything the DR would normally apply to. Further playtesting is obviously required. Ultimately we will likely do whatever my players find most enjoyable.

Like Mr Loque i agree that its a bit of a buzz kill if the players find themselves ineffective time and time again. I don't mind making a monster hard to kill, but impossible seems like a downer. Another way you could take the DR, is that while reducing it to zero hit points will down it, but you can't KILL it without a silver/adamantine/holy/cold iron/whatever weapon. Thus you could render it helpless, but not finish it off. Of course that could raise other issues as well.

This is the advantage of running a game, it becomes YOUR world to mold as you see fit and to meld with your style of play and what your players want. What works for me might not work for you, and what works for you might not work for someone else. It is fun sharing ideas though :)

I am currently playtesting replacing DR with fast healing and a slight boost to the nat AC. A weapon appropriate merely prevents some of the fast healing. For instance a creature with DR5/silver would still be hurt by a steel weapon but would heal very rapidly. Using a silver weapon would halve its healing speed. Thus allowing many small attacks to take it down. Doing the same thing with the imp would allow the P-dragons to use a mob attack and nibble them down without resorting to completely rewriting the imps OR giving the P-dragons class levels. Not that i have a problem with creatures with class levels, its not the only option.

So far the fights have been a bit harder, but not unnecessarily so. They've taken a bit longer in some areas, faster in others but the one problem its avoided is having all the damage come from one party member while the other 3 sit around and pick their nose. When one player is doing all the work and the others are helpless the game becomes less fun and it can be hard to keep their interest.

If my players want a particular magic item and its not available they must find someone to craft it for them. A requested crafted item tends to be 150% of the book price, this helps discourage them loading up on many powerful items and instead focusing on making the best use of what they CAN get. I decide randomly what items a particular shop has available (or in the case of my RotR campaign, what items can be gotten from Magnimar) and if theres something i just don't want the players to get, its simply not available. And assuming items are created, i like throwing in variants with different powers and qualities. Rarely do i use items straight out of the DMG.

I had worried initially that this might result in players wanting to go to magnimar to deal directly with some of their merchants contacts but both the characters and the players are growing attached to Sandpoint and are unwilling to leave it while they go on a shopping spree. Every group is different and you must moderate the supply of magical items to suit your game style and the players in it.

I've had players in the past who have loaded up on magical items at will and become unstoppable, this i've found is not only frustrating for the DM (as it requires throwing unending waves of baddies at the players in a Serious Sam type game) but it causes frustration on the player as well. If the game is no challenge, why should it continue? Placing a little restriction on the players is not always about a power trip. Its about fun. Without challenge there is not much inspiration to improvise and use tactics and the game degenerates into who can wield the bigger stick.

Thanks a million! Looking forward to seeing what awaits my group in the next installments and glad that i won't have to make them wait with baited breath after all. (assuming they finish PF2 this weekend as i expect)

Paizo has a great product, only exceeded by their great customer service. I appreciate the quick response

I was wondering if i might inquire as to whats holding up my order?

I had some credit card issues previously (identity theft) and long story short i forgot to change the card. Thus i missed two books. Since it was my own fault i reordered the books separately so i could have them for when i finished PF2. If i can't have my books can i at least have the PDFs?

I know PDFs are normally a separate issue, but i WOULD have gotten them with my subscription, and buying them separately actually cost me a bit more than i would have originally paid. Not trying to quibble over dollars and cents just hoping to take care of two issues at once.

Thanks in advance for your responce

Michael

P.S Just to make sure, since 3 and 4 didn't ship with my subscription (thats why i delayed until i got 5 and 6 to make sure) I assume i won't be charged for them a second time. Is there a reason why they still show in my next volumes queue?

one other thing i just thought of....

I am sorry Paizo seems to have lost both of your business, but the sadder thing is that where there is two that have decided to say their piece, there are others that likely feel the same way and have not said a word, just walked away.

That being said, i don't agree that with the implication that Paizo through their silence supports the 4e bashing, or even the 3.5 bashing or any of the heated discourse. Consider the commentary you might get on a DVD you purchase. It might not be as heated or inflammatory i agree, but the views contained therein are not necessarily the views of the producers of the film. Should the commentary on the Lord of the Rings DVD reflect on Miramax? I don't think so, and you shouldn't take views on the forum as reflecting on Paizo just because they host the forums as a service.

All i can say is...wow.

I've been playing the game in one incarnation or other for a long time and have been dubious with each change. More for pocketbook reasons of having to possibly replace my libraries than any worry about gameplay. I don't know if I'll like 4e or want to pretend i never heard of it. I DO know that it seems to be a completely different game than the one I've been playing. Not saying that it is, or that different is bad, just that it seems that way. And different is just that, different.

People are free to like what they will, play what they will, but no matter the opinion there will always be SOMEONE out there who dislikes what you do. Theres an old saying "opinions are like rear ends, everyone has one and they all stink (to someone)"

Take this for what you will from a semi-permanent lurker on these boards but a subscriber thats been with Paizo for a long time. The products are great, regardless of edition the story, backgrounds, setting and artwork are top notch. The quality of the forums might be debatable but you can't argue with the work produced by the company. I'm not sure if i will play 4e, 3.x, a homebrew with the best of both, or both systems. However I do know that i will continue buying paizo for inspiration for my campaign in any incarnation.

Avoid the forums if you must in order to maintain sanity, but I'd give the products a try.

I find this discussion very interesting... Our group make up consists of 3 males, 2 females with our ages ranging from 24-32. I myself am a 29 year old male. Rarely is our group completely reflective of gender. We have one female who almost always plays males, one female that swaps back and forth depending on the situation and myself, i play both roles.

My characters gender depends on the concept. Often weeks before its time to roll a new character for an upcoming campaign I'll get the image in my head and build a character around it, other time i'll have a concept and gender will come from that.

The last few characters i've played, in no particular order are:

a female half elf rogue, acrobatic and skilled with knives and bow
a male kobold monk (some very nice rolls on this one)
a human male "white" necromancer (i wanted to try playing a good aligned necromancer)
a a female human traditional necromancer (NE can be fun!)
a male gnome, cleric/illisionist

I had no problems getting into the mindset of the various characters, each had a definitely different and distinct personality with their differing virtues and flaws that made playing them enjoyable.

Many have stated "men and women don't play the other gender correctly". This in itself is a stereotype. Based on the "average woman" half the time the WOMEN don't play the women "correctly" in my games. We're talking fantasy characters in a fantasy setting. Its not going to be like real life because its NOT real life.

Be it a gruff "butch" female, a prima donna male, a burly masculine warrior, a prim and proper maiden or anything in between if it fits the character it should be allowed so long as its not disruptive. If you have a mature gaming group just about anything should be able to be explored.

Life has enough restrictions, let fantasy go where your imagination takes it

I honestly have not yet decided. I voted i was undecided but now will likely be staying with 3.5. We currently have two 3.5 games running concurrently on alternating weekkends, One is a Pathfinder game, the other a Ptolus game. I will likely only convert my game if paizo converts pathfinder over. I had been semi exited about the changes 4e was bringing, but as i read more and hear more about it, i don't think it'll be my game. We DO intend to run a 4e game and I will hold out my final judgement for that, but i'm not optimistic. Seems way too different at its core. More like a new system instead of a refinement of the current one. Rather than D&D i feel like i'm reading a primer for tabletop World of Warcraft.

well, if you guys are just now recieving, haven't yet recieved i guess i'll stop having a cow over "wheres my magazine??"

I wish i'd renewed my subscription to DRAGON sooner though. after a year of not getting it now i find out thier cancelling it. Bummer.