|Michael Brock Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator|
Then let me clarify since people want to read way too much into one word. We may use parts of the Mythic Hardcover when it becomes available. We may not use parts of the Mythic Hardcover when it becomes available. Once the book is on my desk, and I have a chance to look at the final product, I can provide a better answer. Until such a time, everything is conjecture as nothing has been decided. Does that clear it up?
Patrick Harris @ SD wrote:
I guess I can see how "maybe" could be construed as "Acquiring mythic tiers requires fighting mythic monsters or accomplishing other epic deeds. They could easily control access to mythic tiers by making very few scenarios/sanctioned modules that increase your mythic tier so that you don't become too ridiculously overpowered".
Please feel free to link any other comments I made, besides the word maybe, that would lead to rumors. I would love to see them.
Torture is when you deliberatly cause excessive pain and suffering to an individual and they are unable to defend themselves. It also includes inflicting such pain for the purposes of obtaining from him, or a third person, information or a confession or needlessly and excessively punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed (even if you can heal the damage afterwards).
We can list all kinds of situations. That isn't what this topic is about. If you want to discuss blood boiling, bathing in acid, setting on fire or many other acts, start your own thread instead of derailing this one.
Let me simplify. Torture is evil. I'm not arguing about it, I'm not debating it.
Torture is evil, plain and simple.
Durngrun Stonebreaker wrote:
That is correct. For example, if a bad guy enters a classroom and advises the teacher if she kills one of her students, the other 29 will be allowed to leave unharmed and she hesitates. he then advises If she doesn't kill 1 of them, all 30 will die. If she kills one child to save 29 others, it still an evil act, even when made under duress.
Some people feel there is a place for chopping the head off of an innocent while they film it. Just because they justify it through their religion, and it is an accepted practice in their culture, doesn't make it any less evil.
And the article you listed above proves my point. "While many states use torture, few wish to be described as doing so, either to their own citizens or to international bodies...Almost all regimes and governments engaging in torture (and other crimes against humanity) consistently deny engaging in it, in spite of overwhelming hearsay and physical evidence from the citizens they tortured"
The countries that engage in it know it is wrong, and 99% of them go to great lengths to cover up any accusations of torture.
Torture is evil.
And it doesn't make any of those many countries right for partaking in country. And it doesn't make it ok. Torture is evil.
Lou Diamond wrote:
Don is torture by an inquisitor of Asmodeus an evil act as it is one of asmodes's portfolios I think not for most other it would be but for a servant of zon Knthon or Asmodeus it would be one of their holy offices. One problem with things like torture is we use our current societal values for determining what we think of things like torture. Compare current societal norms vs.those of Spain in the time of the inqusistion a d then to the time period that the game is equivalent to and the classes your character is to wether something is evil or. Not.
Yes, just because it was a function of their office doesn't make it any less of an evil act. Both deities are LE, both are detailed in Faiths of Corruption , and any torture aspect falls under the "E" in their alignment.
And since you brouht real world into it, Just because Spain acted a certain way during the inquisition doesn't make it anymore right or acceptable. There is a reason why very few civilizations have acted I that way since.
Yes torture is evil.
Intimidation is when you threaten to do physical harm that would cause maiming, injury, etc...
Torture is when you deliberatly cause pain and suffering to an individual and they are unable to defend themselves. It also includes inflicting such pain for the purposes of obtaining from him, or a third person, information or a confession or needlessly and excessively punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed (even if you can heal the damage afterwards).
As I tell my six year old, if you have to ask......
Robert A Matthews wrote:
I have heard rumor that content from this book might be making an appearance in PFS. Acquiring mythic tiers requires fighting mythic monsters or accomplishing other epic deeds. They could easily control access to mythic tiers by making very few scenarios/sanctioned modules that increase your mythic tier so that you don't become too ridiculously overpowered.
Those sound like some juicy and interesting rumors. I would love to hear more of what you've heard since I didn't start any rumors and have yet to even see the book so have no idea what might and might not be legal, if anything.
Victor Zajic wrote:
Once tickets sell out, every seat in the Sagamore is filled, and we won't be able to seat anymore tables.
With that said, as of right now, there are 58 tickets remaining for the Special, 308 tickets remaining for RoB part 1, and 219 tickets remaining for RoB part 2.
David Bowles wrote:
If it isn't something you think you're VC or VL can handle, then email me directly. But, I think they can handle it.
And a fair number of people have already advised they would not play up for just a challenge without the commensurate rewards. So, number one fails before it even gets out of the gate.
Number two, leaving it unchecked, means that that level 4, who is now 20,000+ GPs above the WBL curve after playing 4-5 games at the 7-11 tier, would still be eligible to play in a tier 1-5 scenario where he would make it even more of a mockery than what it currently is. This allows for even more opportunity to solo an adventure while the other 5 players serve as his audience. This is opposite of what we want in PFS.
On a side note, since , for the past 2+ years, you have supported people out of tier always being able to play up, such as above with 4th level PC playing a tier 7-11, would it be ok when this same PC hits 7th level, to play down into a 1-5 scenario to helps cake walk it for the other PCs?
That is a decision that is made by development, not me. I can certainly offer the thoughts people have here to that department in or weekly meetings.
The Red Ninja wrote:
Please check your PMs and send me a reply. I don't see this game reported. If there is an error in the reporting system, I need to alert IT that there is a problem they need to address. If it is some other problem, hopefully I can help fix it.
The Red Ninja wrote:
I've sent you a PM. Please reply to that before I address any points further. I need clarification on some confusion I have.
What was the final straw on 3-18? Without mowing specifics, it is hard to know what you are talking about. As for the scenarios being too easy, it sounds as if you stopped GMing midway through season 3. I assume you haven't GMed any season 4 which has been received, across the board, as the most challenging season yet.
Also, not sure why you feel like a drone carrying out what is put before you. I've GMed nearly 200 tables of PFS and each game is an experience of its own. I add role playing flavor where possible depending on where the PCs are adventuring at. As far as I know, the players at my tables always have a good time. I haven't experienced this drone experience you report and need further info before I can understand what you are trying to describe.
The Red Ninja wrote:
I'm a bit confused. If it is a minority, how is it a large and statistically significant one? How big of a problem do you perceive this to be? I talk with regional coordinators across the globe on a daily basis and it is a much smaller problem than what is being portrayed in this very thread.
Threat adjustment could work, but it would add extra workload to development to review and check extra stat blocks. Their schedule is fairly tight as is and this proposal adds additional workload to an already crammed schedule.
David Bowles wrote:
I respect that. Unfortunately, we have had many complaints from across the world that scenarios, especially season 3 and 4, tend to run long. This creates even more problems as con slots end or game stores close and people aren't able to finish a game. Tis compounds the problem with how to handle awarding Chronicles, how to finish the game, etc.... I would not want to introduce a system that makes the problem worse by squeezing even more time from a table.
The Red Ninja wrote:
What experiences do you have with PFS organized play? Is it with PFS or another OP?
And I am considering those other ideas, but none can work across the globe. Maybe in specific regions they will work, but not across PFS OP at large.
Also, what happens to the WBL and the ability to purchase more powerful items, or a ton of consumables if a 4th level plays a 7-11 scenario? It becomes skewed and just exacerbates the problem as the character continues to advance.
The multiple threads are out there. Do a search in the search engine here to review them if you wish.
The Red Ninja wrote:
And please point out where I said, "all of this is pointless"? I don't think any of the ideas presented here will work for actual play. I didn't say I'm locking this topic, stop discussing it. I was simply saying come up with different ideas and lets see if any of those would actually work. Please stop reading things in to what I type or making leaps as to what I am advising. If I didn't care, I sure wouldn't be reading this post at 8:30 am on a Sunday.
The Red Ninja wrote:
Theory crafting is when you have little or no experience with PFS organized play but know how best to fix its problems through theories instead of any real game experience to fall back upon. Good ideas are only good if they will actually work in practice and not just theoretically work because they sound good. Allowing players or GMs to play in any tier they wish may sound good, however it would cause a train wreck if actually implemented. There is no political buzzwords here. It is just an easy two word term to describe quickly what it took a paragraph to explain just now.
The same people have been asking for years, to just let players and/or GMs decide to play in whatever tier or subtler they like without restrictions. It simply isn't going to happen. I don't know how many times I have to say no before people stop suggesting it as a solution and come up with other solutions.
I wasn't asking to start a witch hunt or the like. I was simply asking for the VOs and what region you play in as they most likely have a better grasp of the entire region. I discuss often and in detail with the VOs, to make the top down decisions you advised of in your last reply
However, Since I don't know where you play, and whether this is an isolated location or a more widespread problem, I have little to work with not being able to discuss with the VOs in that particular region and will move on to the other topics on these message boards.
Anyhow, I will leave this thread to all of you to get back to theory crafting the best ways to make things better.
The Red Ninja wrote:
So, where is it the region that you play? I would like to speak with the VCs and/or VLs in tha area to get some more info.
And please don't read tone or intent into the request. I no longer respond on these message boards with any tone other than matter-of-fact statements.
I simply wish to speak to the VOs in your region to see if this is a problem only in the store(s), convention (s), and game day (s) you play at, or if it something more widespread in the region.
The Red Ninja wrote:
There are absolutely no plans to let GMs just do what they want willy nilly. And yes, that is exactly what it sounds like you are advocating. There are other OPs that allow for this, and if that is what you need, for GMs to change whatever they like about the scenario, or to run any scenario for any level character they like, then go and try those OPs out. PFS will most likely never allow for GMs to let 3rd level, super optimized characters play in a 5-9 or 7-11 scenario.
why not just have a discretionary allotment of extra enemies the GM can throw into the module, with notes like "If the players were not challenged by this conflict, you may choose to use 2 discretionary points to add these units to the next encounter"
So, if a GM only kills one character, and thinks he should have killed 3 with the last encounter, should he be allowed to add some extra enemies to every encounter to the end of the scenario? If you have a 5th or high per level PC, who for whatever reason doesnt have the gold or PP to raise dead, are you ok losing your character permanently because the GM decided he needed to give you more of a challenge, wasn't able to gauge properly, and TPKed the party? Because, there are GMs out there who would do such a thing.
And before anyone says, well people just won't play with that GM in the future, consider this. What if you only have one 5th level PC, have spent hundreds of dollars to go to a convention, only to die in the first slot. They signed up for all tiers higher than 1 and are now left with their entire con schedule being unable to play because one GM decided he wanted to give the party a bigger challenge and TPKed.
But I thought the purpose of a rating system people have been asking for would be before they played it, not afterward. With this system, Sure it gives every one a good metric 6 months after release but it doesn't solve the problem people have been asking for - a rating system when a scenario is released before they play.
Making an assumption here, but the large majority of people who post here, and have been asking for such a thing, play a scenario in the first few months of release. A check box isn't going to do anything for those people.
So who do we base the difficulty indicator off of, Rip or Bond? As you said, "the high degree of customization" makes it a truly difficult, if not impossible task.
If we rate something as "difficult" and Bond finds it easy, then we still have the same problem. Also, do we rate it as a one star GM running the game or a five star GM running the game or a developer here at Paizo running the game? The skill level of a GM will most assuredly be the biggest determining factor of the difficulty of a scenario. And then, do you rate it with role players in mind, optimized characters in mind, a mixed group of the two (which you admit you don't play with one of those), or something else? Also, do you consider age and experience in a rating scale? A group of five 16 year olds who have been playing for 5 years will probably handle the scenario better than a group of 30 somethings that just started playing RPGs.
Even if you base it off of what 6 pregens could do, it depends quite variably on the player knowledge of those running the pregens. Six of us running pregens here at Paizo will probably have a very different experience than six new players in Moscow. Even if we rate a scenario as "easy", the group of six brand new players may TPK and the we get roasted for labeling it "easy."
So, how do you come up with a true difficulty indicator or rating scale that is going to satisfy the masses? I don't think it Is possible but here I am listening to suggestions.
It's not so easy as just putting a label of hard, easy or moderate on a scenario. There are many factors to consider before slapping a rating on a scenario.
Let me hear your thoughts. I'm not picking on anyone in this thread. I'm going to play devils advocate and welcome others to join me. If we are going to consider something like this, then we need to poke as many holes as possible in a suggestion to see if it would actually work as people intend it to do so.
The only boon that can be given away is the dhampir. The Free Raise Dead may not be given away period, regardless if the top says player or GM. If a GM wants to give the Dhampir boon away, cross off the free raise dead. Also, the Free Raise Dead may not be used, and then the dhampir boon be given to another person.
Received and thank you. As a former Special Victims Detective, I don't take jokes about such a heinous act lightly.