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305 posts. No reviews. 3 lists. 1 wishlist.


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That is fantastic. And I thought my PCs recruiting the cerebral fungus in the first book as a cohort was out there...

My take on the "why is the final battle not in space" thing: I had the same reaction. Except my reaction was "why is the final BOOK not in space?!"

So here is what I figure. Unity has a worshiper capable of casting Miracle once a day. And an army of robots, including several working excavators. And thousands of years.

When my PCs make it to book six, Unity will be making final preparations to relaunch the Divinity. And it will happen while they are exploring it. :)

For my part, I turned Hellion into a multi-part boss battle, JRPG style, which I feel is very appropriate for giant robot battles.

I.e. each leg has this much HP/hardness, body has this much, claws, etc. And then the whole thing acts as one creature but each functional part gets to participate in a full attack routine.

It went pretty well - my PCs were pretty surprised to find out that they needed to make called shots, but quickly adapted to it and found a good strategy to bring him down. I had the main body be extremely durable, so they disabled his limbs until he had to expose his reactor core for a big attack, and then the party slayer jumped up onto his back and stabbed him in the core until he exploded.

Pretty epic, and the look on their faces when I said "and then he explodes" while the slayer was still standing on his back was priceless. :)

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I'm pretty sure that while the fighter might have a hard-to-impossible time killing the wizard, the wizard CANNOT kill a mythic fighter.


Because Undetectable, RAW, is such a completely bull!@#$ broken ability that it makes Sacred Geometry look as intimidating as Elephant Stomp.

Here is the wording of Undetectable:

"This grants its bonded user the ability to become utterly undetectable while invisible. While invisible and in physical contact with this item, the bonded creature can't be detected or scryed by any method."

Emphasis mine. So let's talk about this for a moment.

You have a contingency that triggers whenever someone attacks you, and plane shifts you to your demiplane. Fair enough. The contingency doesn't trigger. Why? Because the fighter "cannot be detected[...]by any method". The contingency does not detect someone attacking you, and does not trigger.

You ask questions of the gods to get some idea of where the fighter is. This fails. Why? Because the fighter "cannot be detected[...]by any method". THE GODS do not know where he is. They can't tell you. No divination can tell you, in fact. No ANYTHING can tell you.

Throwing flour at the fighter fails to detect him. How? No idea, but RAW, no method can succeed in detecting the fighter. He lays his hand on you. You don't notice he's there. He sticks his sword into your chest. You don't notice he's there (by now he's use Divine Source for greater invisibility, so he doesn't lose it for attacking you). You try to walk through him and run into him, causing you to stumble and fall. You. Don't. Notice. That. He's. There.

If you ask me, Undetectable definitely deserves a place next to Sacred Geometry and Blood Money on the altar of "this destroys games".

Anzyr, can I get your agreement on this? I'm certainly with you on the level of breaking the game Wizards are capable of, but this particular Mythic power boggled my mind when I read it. Certainly I don't think it allows the fighter to kill the wizard (clones, clones, the very least), but I'm not sure I can think of a way the wizard can kill the fighter.

Item attempts to fix an underpowered class...

I love these item descriptions that sound like sales brochures. "Act now and we'll include a free cleaning kit!"

Well, that items tops my "would be a nightmare for GM bookkeeping" list...

Why yes, I have played Metal Gear Solid...

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Random table item! ~drinks~

Joke item! ~drinks~

Random table item! ~drinks~

Joke item! ~drinks~

...Okay, I'm not thirsty anymore, please stop now...

Soo... this weapon is designed to be wielded by someone with at least seven hands?

I keep having boring staves matched up against outright bad items, and end up voting for the staff...

Why yes, I have heard of Journey to the West...

Eh, your formatting is better than the other guy, and his item is boring, too. So I guess you get the vote.

Rod that is just a descriptive way to cast one spell vs. staff that is just a list of spells with some flavor text...

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Found an ~awesome~ staff. Had a couple nitpicks, but overall I am blown away.

Horribly overpowered item vs joke item. What to do...

EDIT: Ugh. Obvious video game reference vs joke item. ~cries~

Wait... you can include hyperlinks in your item description?! That's a thing the rules will allow?! o.O

You know what, for sheer moxie, and the fact that I was able to look up all the rules pertaining to your item in a matter of seconds, I will probably vote for your item every time I see it now.

Still kinda in shock...

Your item's name is a bad pun. I'm only voting for you because I can't actually figure out what the other item does...

"Greatly prized by..."


Also: Two items with "let me write my homebrew world backstory into this item, I'm sure you'll love it".

And one of them is "Only useable by [obscure race] when fighting [obscure monster type]".

And that's still the one I'm voting for, which says something about the other...

Huh. Got two very, very similar items matched up - basically both trying to accomplish the same thing. Even the same kind of weapon.

One was clearly better, tho...

Suffice to say that all three 299-ish wordcount items would have benefited from half the word count.

...Okay, how many times did the rules say "don't use the formatting from Ultimate Equipment"? And you did that anyway... lucky you the other item is just really bland.

So your item is just [unique armor from the CRB] with fancy flavor text...?

That's okay, you are matched against a staff I don't feel bad voting for.

~facepalm~ Just got into voting. Very first matchup:

Random table item vs 299 word SAK.


EDIT: Round 2: 299 word item vs 298 word item. >.>

It should be the first one by the wording. "plus a further point of damage for every full 500gp" means that a 1000gp material component, which contains 500 full gp two times, should cost 3 points.

My friend who ran WotR had a very similar experience to this; he actually cut out the entire last book because he was so burned on the campaign.

Currently, our opinion on Mythic is that it is a great way to give a little extra oomph to a particularly vicious boss, and we have both used it that way a couple times. I do also like Paizo throwing the occasional mythic enemy for the same reason.

I will probably never give my PCs Mythic power, except maybe individual abilities handed out that are appropriate to the characters and not game-breaking.

I typically allow most anything by Dreamscarred Press - both the psionic rules and the Path of War - or Super Genius Games (although not godlings), especially as I draw on a lot of that material to give my PCs opponents. Oh, and I added Pact Magic Unbound to that list lately, because the Occultist is totes cool.

I will also allow other third party material on a case-by-case basis, but only for interesting character ideas, not for powergaming.

As for that feat: It's probably fine. I already allow the Greater Unarmed Strike feat mentioned above from Path of War, and I'd probably use that instead, but it's certainly not going break any games. Monks already aren't breaking any games.

Well, in my house rules in which I basically give all monks pounce at 4th level they actually have come close to dominating a fight. But then the witch shut four monks down with one spell and balance was restored to the universe...

While I certainly don't think anyone will get DQed for that sort of thing, I do think getting those kinds of details right will reflect positively on you. ...Also, getting those kinds of details wrong will probably be more food for Template Fu. :)

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A bit of advice of my own, based on something that almost messed me up when creating my item this year:

In previous years, with wondrous items, cost has always been half of price.

This year, that is not always true. If you are making a weapon, armor, or shield, please remember that the price of the non-magical base item is not halved. For example, suppose you are making a magical dagger. All together, it ends up with a price of 10,302gp - 10,000gp worth of magical abilities, and 302gp for the masterwork dagger.

The item's cost is 5,302gp - not 5,151gp.

This may be nit-picky, but attention to this level of detail is certainly something I will be looking for when voting this round.

Ah, Avoron made a comment about it not being TWF and I assumed he was talking about the same thing.

Yeah, the TWF is definitely a no-go.

Bob Bob Bob wrote:

That's easy. You have a number of "hands" equal to your hands. "Hands" is short for "hands of effort". During a full attack you can only use manufactured weapons that use a number of hands equal to your "hands". Vestigial arm adds hands but explicitly does not add "hands". That's what "The arm does not give the alchemist any extra attacks or actions per round" means.

If you are a normal humanoid (two hands) and attack with a two-handed weapon you can't use two-weapon fighting (because you've already used up two "hands"). A two armed alchemist who grows two more arms with Vestigial Arm still only has two "hands" and therefore can only attack with one two-handed or two one-handed/light weapons. Iteratives can be subbed as normal but you can never exceed your "hands" limit.

I think this is wrong. The reason I think this is wrong is because he is not two weapon fighting.

Consider the following situation:

A fighter with a +6 BaB attacks with a greatsword for his first attack. Then, for his +1 BaB attack, he drops his greatsword and quickdraws an earthbreaker.

As far as I can tell, this is completely legal and the TWF FAQ doesn't apply to it.

And as far as I can tell, it is no different from using vestigial arm to do the same thing without the quickdraw.

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Shadowborn wrote:

1. Take the rust monster.

2. Apply the swarm template from the Advanced Bestiary.

3. Watch the look on your players' faces when the egg sac ruptures, releasing a wave of baby rust monsters upon them.

Totally had a DM pull that on our group once. Most encounters we were approaching carefully, fighting defensively and waiting to see what the enemy was capable of before going in for the kill. This fight, we (luckily) won initiative, caught the swarm with Color Spray, and then fireballed it into oblivion before it could act.

Then we left that part of the dungeon and never came back. :)

Oh, that reminds me of another great idea that DM had. We found an abandoned mineshaft, and were attacked by a heavily armored skeleton. For some reason, this skeleton was immune to our attempts to turn it.

Finally, we discovered that it was actually an animated suit of armor with its former wearer's skeleton trapped inside it, and the skeleton was non-animate.

Then as we were crossing a minecart track we got bludgeoned by a runaway minecart that seemed to be moving on its own. And then we were attacked by a swarm of animated pickaxes...

It turned out that the mine had been abandoned because the miners had struck a magical ore that animated any metal object to touch it.

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One wonders what happens in Aboyd's games when a Paladin walks into Geb.

Say a ghoul attacks a child and the paladin slays the ghoul. Does the paladin fall because in Geb it is legal for the undead to prey on the living and the paladin has just committed murder by Geb's laws?

As an apology for having a bit of fun with you, I will try to offer some honest critique.

I actually like the idea of tying various classes strictly to various alignments and deities; I'm doing something very similar for a world I am designing. It's a great way to give theme to a setting, and more importantly it's a great way of communicating that theme to players without making them read books of setting material.

Don't design settings that require players to read books full of setting material. If they wanted to do that, they'd be GMs. :)

I do notice that your deities have very broad portfolios. I could see this as a good thing or a bad thing - it means two worshipers of the same deity can be very different depending on the aspects they focus on (I imagine a naval commander who gives praise to Solonarre as deity of water and military expeditions worships her quite differently than a scholar who prays for her blessing of knowledge and invention), which is quite cool.

On the other hand, it makes it a bit harder to "classify" the deities. Deities with simple portfolios are easier to understand - again, try to design your setting such that players grok it quickly.

Also: Do all the deities shop at the same bookbinder? I notice a theme of "weighs 3lbs and costs roughly 40gp" among the holy books.

Comments on spells:

Ants in Pants seems childish. I'm honestly not really sure what the point of the spell is, except to be a joke. If your setting is meant to be taken seriously, setting-specific mechanics that players are likely to take as a joke are probably not going to set the right tone.

Bestow Wound is really, really overpowered. Not only free healing but also free damage, as a cantrip? This would be a good 1st level spell, kind of like a lesser version of Vampiric Touch. But it's way too good as a cantrip.

Bone Dry Thirst is also really strong for a cantrip. It's easy to negate, but it's also potentially devastating if you catch someone without easy access to water. It also kills targets faster than Cup of Dust, which is a third level spell (and specifically can't kill you).

Bug Spray has convoluted wording. It functions like circle of death, but it creates a cloud? Does the cloud linger if everything fails its save? Does it have the hit die limit of circle of death? Also, this spell is likely to only be used against swarms, and swarms suffer virtually nothing from the sickened condition.

Erupt Armor's wording is excessively complex. Also, why would you want your armor to get a saving throw? Besides, as an attended magical item, the armor uses your saving throw, and you can choose to fail to save anyway, so....

My suggestion for cleaner wording:
Erupt Armor
School Evocation
Level Antipaladin 1, Bloodrager 1, Hunter 1, Magus 1, Paladin 1, Ranger 1, Warpriest 1
Casting Time 1 swift action
Components V, M (the armor you are wearing)
Range 20ft.
Area 20ft. spread centered on you
Duration Instantaneous
Saving Throw Reflex half
Spell Resistance No
Upon invoking this spell, the caster detonates his own armor in a blast of shrapnel. Armor that is not constructed mostly of metal causes no damage; otherwise, this spell deals damage based on the weight of the armor worn. This spell deals 1d6 piercing damage if cast wearing light armor, 2d6 damage with medium armor, or 3d6 damage for heavy armor. If the armor was magical, this damage also counts as magic for overcoming DR.

Oh, something else I noticed. Your spells mention paladins, antipaladins, and hunters - I got the impression from your writeup in your first post that these classes don't exist in your setting?

Mouthpiece is a really cool spell.

I'm debating whether Rumor Mill is too strong for a cantrip or not. It's pretty limited, but it could also be used to very great effect. I think it's probably okay.

Throw Arrow is very similar to the already existent spell Ki Arrow.

Anyway, there's my 2 cents.

Count me in that category - totally thought someone was writing up a Confessor from Sword of Truth.

Not sure how one would DO that as a class, actually. Due to poor support for low fantasy settings, Pathfinder doesn't really do well to represent "I have one insanely powerful class feature, but I'm otherwise a Commoner".

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Jaelithe wrote:
How did the player take it? Was he overjoyed at the ride upon which you'd taken him, or angry at what he perceived was a betrayal of the character he'd been playing all that time?

I was worried that he might be upset by it, but he actually loved it. I believe his exact words were "it doesn't matter how much the plot screws you, as long as it's engaging". :)

Avoron wrote:

There's an even more complicated possibility, if something along the lines of this sequence were to happen:

1. Character with a Constitution score of 12 gets a Belt of Mighty Constitution +4 and wears it for several days.

2. Character levels up and takes the Raging Vitality feat, then takes off the Belt.

3. Character begins raging, and their Constitution is now 18.

4. Character takes 2 points of Constitution damage from, say, a poison. Their Constitution is now 16.

The character still qualifies for the feat, but if they didn't have it, they wouldn't qualify. It's clear that they would lose its benefits if they stopped raging and started again, but would they lose them immediately?

Moral of the story: Don't make feats that give numeric bonuses to a numeric score that they have as a prerequisite.

Actually, there is no problem here, since damage to an ability score explicitly does not actually reduce that ability score.

Ability DRAIN might cause this problem, though.

Abraham has it exactly right.

Tower shields are pretty boss. I got to run a boss battle in my Way of the Wicked campaign with a pair of Giant-template tower archons who could basically set their shields so as to nullify all attacks from one direction and force the party to circle around them and eat attacks of opportunity.

Leo_Negri wrote:
Nope, just a standard lance with a counter-weight to the back for ease of balancing, that and that bulbous point also looks as if it would help the Hellknight use the lance as a spear if unhorsed, allowing him to set it to receive a charge. Bear in mind this is all guesswork by me.

Ah, suddenly that all makes sense and I can go back to appreciating the awesome artwork.

Thank you. :)

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When I ran Kingmaker ages ago, one of my players wanted to be a dwarven druid who had received a vision from a goddess instructing him to travel up to the Stolen Lands to "find his destiny".

I decided to

major Kingmaker spoilers!:
have the "goddess" be Nyrissa. She continued to provide him with "advice" the entire campaign, guiding him to unknowingly helping her gather the reagents she needed to steal away the Stolen Lands. Even when she revealed her true motives, she still almost managed to convince the dwarf to join her.

The look on the player's face at the end of Book 5, when he found out who he'd been working for and trusting completely since Book 1 was priceless.

Also, there is a barbarian archetype that does not get a Con bonus while raging; it makes thematic sense to me that this archetype would have a harder time qualifying for Raging Vitality.

On question two, the description says to choose "a single edge of your space". Your space is the entire space you take up, so a Huge creature wielding a tower shield gets to block a 15-foot-wide area.

Technically, RAW, the tower shield says nothing about sizing, so a Huge creature wielding a tower shield sized for a Medium creature still blocks a 15-foot-wide area. Oddly.

I think for question #1, you do in fact get total cover against diagonal attacks. This actually makes the tower shield better than an actual wall in that case.

For question #3, the tower shield only counts as cover for "attacks targeting you". So you can attack just fine, as can your allies.

These are really cool, but...

Is that Hellknight wielding a double lance?!

My brain is trying to come up with what such a weapon could possibly be used for... and failing...

This is purely houserule, but I've always ruled that characters can select any feat they can potentially qualify for; they just only gain the benefits of that feat when they do qualify for it.

For example, I have allowed monks to take feats they don't have enough BaB for, because their BaB when flurrying was high enough. They just only benefit from the feat during a flurry.

Or I'll let a druid take Improved Natural Attack - they benefit whenever they are in a form with that specific natural attack, otherwise it's a dead feat.

So far no one has used this to do anything that has horribly broken any of my games. ~shrug~

I definitely feel that the "replace and add" clause should stack. As someone running Way of the Wicked with an antipaladin who will likely become undead at some point, I'm definitely going to let him get Charisma to Fort twice. And I let my Inquisitor get Wisdom to Diplomacy twice in the same way.

But I also definitely always thought that "Add Dex to this" and "Add Dex to the same thing" were not meant to stack. So it's nice to have confirmation on that.

Also, to BBT: The simple answer to most of those questions is exactly what Mark said earlier - the FAQ does not affect anything other than exactly what the FAQ says it affects. You don't need to go digging for other rules elements that are affected by the FAQ because there aren't any.

Is it a question about how to apply multiple untyped ability score modifiers from the same ability score to the same thing? Refer to the FAQ. Is it a question about anything else? Don't refer to the FAQ.

Seems straightforward to me.

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The explanation I have seen used - and what I rule myself - is that you can take 10 as long as you are not in immediate danger from something ~outside the skill check itself~. So, for example, no matter how dangerous the climb is you can take 10. But if someone is shooting arrows at you, no take 10 even if the climb is easy.

EDIT: That said, if your GM says you can't... you can't. Some GMs really don't like taking 10 and 20. YMMV.

Well, my party's final encounter with Meyanda was ~fantastic~.

I had made a couple tweaks to the encounter - firstly, I changed Meyanda to be a warpriest. Secondly, I removed the gearsman from elsewhere in the book and made her robot ally a gearsman.

And then I decided to take a page out of Mass Effect 2's book, and give Hellion the ability to remotely "assume command" of robots under his control, giving them his augment template.

So the party has awesome roleplay with Meyanda, questioning her about her goals and life choices. The party barbarian, who thinks Meyanda is her missing friend, especially had good roleplay. Finally, Meyanda challenged the barbarian to a one-on-one duel, ordering the robot to stand down.

Barbarian loses most of her health, but gets a lucky hit towards the end and Meyanda surrenders with barely any health left. As agreed, Meyanda moves to shut down the power relay.

Cue Hellion assuming command of the gearsman and smacking Meyanda unconscious as a surprise round. So, time for the ~real~ boss battle, against an 80hp robot with two actions a turn!

The barbarian wins initiative, shouts "Stay away from my friend!", crits, confirms, and deals 92 damage for an instant win.

This is becoming a thing...

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Oh god I laughed so hard I cried. Terrible pun is awesome...

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Way of the Wicked spoilers:
In a recent session of my WotW game, the party came face to face with the phoenix in book three. Not just one, but BOTH of its deaths were awesome. The phoenix was staying in the air out of melee range and dropping firebombs, while the party tries to figure out how to bring it down. Then the party ninja UMD'd a staff with Dimension Door to teleport... directly on top of it. Nat 20'd his Acrobatics check to land on its back, Shadow of the Colossus style. It tried to fling him off (I had him make a Reflex save), he hung on, and... TWF sneak attack blender. Every attack hit, two were crits. Murdered it from full health. Featherfall (he was a drow) + dimension door again to get back to the ground and take a bow.

Of course this was just in time for it to resurrect, snatch the party antipaladin, and drop him off a 500-foot cliff, killing him.

The ninja tries to do the same thing again, but this time messes up his landing, and it grapples him. Party is freaking out, and then the cryptic (psychic rogue-type class) says "Guys, I have a plan. Everyone form up on me and ready an action." Then proceeds to hit the phoenix with ectoplasmic grapnel and have the whole party aid another the CMB check. Just when it looks like they are going to be 2 points short of beating its crazy 50 CMD, the ninja announces that he is stabbing it in the wing to disrupt its concentration and effectively aid another. Success, and working as one they harpoon the phoenix out of the sky and bring it crashing to the ground. The ninja sticks his Acrobatics check to land and blenders the now prone phoenix with a flanking buddy, killing it again.

My PCs still make comments about that fight once a session or so. :)

They are described in the tech guide. They are significantly less common than batteries, by my reading. They hold 10 charges per canister.

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GM says: *after a Perception check* You notice nothing.
GM means: Muahahahahaha...

Those exact words are possibly the most paranoia-inducing phrase you can drop on a group of players... or maybe it's just legendary among my group, after "you notice nothing" turned out to mean "an invisible pixie with a penchant for mind games and amnesia arrows noticed you and is going to haunt you for the rest of the campaign, including masquerading as a PC as one point".

To this day no one is allowed to play a character named "Tina". >.>

Oh, wow, vampire spawn using mimic coffins as their coffins. That is vicious. Nice touch. :)

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