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Neshari

Matthias's page

Pathfinder Society Member. 229 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists.


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It is not a barb but was my first attempt at a "tank" style character with massive HP.

War Masta' Trollblood

Also has some decent input from STR ranger on a barb build.


Similar to feats that don't work when you don't have the proper stats (EX: enlarge with TWF dropping your dex too low) id imagine you can take the feats but they don't work when said ability that lets you channel is not active.


If you want to tie something to charisma I would look at something like tactics or morale ratings. they can provide benefit or detriment to an entire group of PCs/NPCs without adding a 4th save


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Players will basically get wrecked as they progress if they put dump stats in any save stat, and don't spend at least 1 feat to shore up said save/s. As a DM I encourage players to build robust multi-talented Characters, not one-trick ponies. In my games it did not take the party long to realize that leaving themselves with a low bad save at level 10 can spell disaster for their team. In that vein things like rocket and SoD tag sorta fade.


If anything I would say Divination is TOO useful, making surprises in story and surprise encounters trivial to the point of damaging the campaign. We had a diviner for one campaign and I felt bad for our GM because it was just a bunch of hey I can see that, or hey I auto detect everything within X range, or hey what is the answer to this puzzle/trap. I know there are ways around it as a DM but it can be fun sucking to never have the element of surprise


Only time I am a fan of TPK as a DM is when the party does something particularly dumb, for example charging a village of werewolves (they knew the town was werewolves) at level 3 with no silver weapons and with none of the casters having magic weapon or a similar buff spell at the ready (my group had 7 players including 4 casters, a druid, wizard, magus, and oracle). It was a bloodbath and rightfully so.
My example aside, story deaths can really add a lot to the game as long as your group is mature about it and are a great plot device. But if the death is just "a dire weasel crit you at level 3 and your dead cause you rolled low on HP" that feels very unsatisfying as both a DM and a player.


Will do! Though at this point I am in the process of building an entire new world for my group to run in as it is part of the fun for me as a GM so it might be awhile before I get an update


So after fiddling about with the new Mythic adventures book I was curious if anyone had looked into Mythic tiers as an alternate progression path. Right now 20/10 is what characters max out at but i was thinking along the lines of running a group that would look like 7-8/10 then doing new exp gains along a modified slow progression (x2 required from current amounts) for remaining levels.

I am more concerned if this would cause any game breaking issues beyond the ones related to power level (i can always modify monsters), and if anyone else has experimented with this style of play since I could not find anything in my searches.


I would say yes since opportunist only works once a round and snap shot increases your effective AoO range. You would be better off taking the rogue talent for combat reflexes if your going the Imp. SS feat route though.


Lemmy wrote:


Dunno about demi-liches, but right now, a Wizard can pretty much own Golens. There are lots of spells with SR:No and spells that are made to affect constructs too.

My only thoughts about that is your average golem is CR 8+, where casters will be of sufficient strength to have a bevy of spells to deal with magic immunity (assuming APL+1 you will have 3rd or 4th circle spells). at the suggested CR for just my 2 example creatures (there are more in the books, but Allip=CR 3, Werewolf=CR 2) your average fighter will be at either starting gear or 900g WBL, which is not even enough for a magic weapon. So he is useless against the Allip and can only hurt the werewolf if he deals 10 points of damage or more (at level 1-2 we are talking near max damage rolls).

I will add to all of this though it really depends on who your DM is and what your party composition is, experiences will vary when it comes to monster encounters.


Elamdri wrote:
StreamOfTheSky wrote:

Not in Pathfinder, they overvalue sneak attack waaaaay too much for that to happen. In 3.5 D&D, there were plenty of ways to go about it. Simplest was just UA's fighter variant that traded bonus feats for SA, but...that was a bad trade. If you just multiclassed rogue-ish and full BAB type classes and added in SA boosters (like Assassin's Stance, for +2d6 SA), you could effectively end up with practically full BAB and full SA progressions.

Elamdri wrote:
A class with full BAB and Sneak Attack would be unbalanced.

1. Lolno.

2. Witness, "Exhibit A"

If there is a Martial Class that has a full BAB and Full Sneak Attack, why the HELL would you play any other martial character?

I do agree that SA is not worth much compared to other damage boosters like power attack. In our group we have a heavy melee dynamic, flanking will be easy so it was on my list of damage boosters, though I may just swap to inquisitor for free teamwork feats without the team needed.

blackbloodtroll wrote:


So, I ask you:

What do you want from sneak attack?

See above.


Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Matthias wrote:

Hello,

Is there any way to mix the two title elements in a class? I started looking under rogue variants but I figure fighter/barb might have a solution.
Note: not looking for self buffs, magic, or items that "close the gap" for 3/4 BAB'ers, I am looking for a full BAB option to get sneak attack if there is one out there.

Pretty much what Elamdri said. It's a trade-off.

Rogues have much more versatility in skills and debuffs (from Rogue talents, Sneak Attack and the like), so allowing Rogues a full BAB option would upset the balance between a Rogue and another melee with full BAB.

It's about as broken as allowing a Paladin to cast spells as per a Cleric. Insane saves and immunities, high armor, swift self-healing, AND the ability to buff to even further levels, plus resurrect? Why even have a Cleric if a Paladin has the same capabilities as a Cleric except more (and anything it doesn't have makes Cleric class features look like fecal matter from a dog).

Agreed, but unarmed fighter steals some of the monk's interesting bits (style feats for cheap) so I figured it was worth an ask.

@Tristan Low templar seems interesting and might fit the campaign (apocolypse) well, thanks!


Agreed with Lemmy. Also saves and AC are universally good so saying someone needs them feels like a "duh" statement.
Something like fighters needing magical weapons to be effective against incorporeal or DR20/pancakes(insert proper DR type here) is the only real complaints with substance. Spellcasters would never run into a creature that can laugh at magic (demilich, golems) at the levels that most people play PF at, but fighters can run into things with weird or high DR at much lower CRs (allip, werewolf) in comparison.

Edit:

Oh, another annoyance for fighters can be loot. If I as a DM were to use the random treasure tables the fighter that went weapon training, focus, and specialization in lets say kukri would probably never see a magical kukri come up and be penalized just because his class makes him specialize to get the greatest benefit.
I will admit though for some groups this is not a problem as you might have a magic mart within mini-questing distance, but that might not work either based on city size/party location/campaign setting.


Hello,

Is there any way to mix the two title elements in a class? I started looking under rogue variants but I figure fighter/barb might have a solution.
Note: not looking for self buffs, magic, or items that "close the gap" for 3/4 BAB'ers, I am looking for a full BAB option to get sneak attack if there is one out there.


Take the gnome archetype experimental Gunsmith, it is both awesome and fun. My only wish is that it wasn't a gnome only archetype but you won't have that problem


Ninjaxenomorph wrote:
Black Blades are only as powerful as the GM decrees. It is an intelligent item, which has its own alien agenda.

Playing someones character via GM fiat will alienate your players asap. Bladebound might be powerful, but I seriously doubt they can top a barb, summoner, or even a optimized fighter.


Wow it is like Ross wasn't even in here with how you guys go right back to being at each others throats. Please get out of this thread if you are not going to help the OP, petty arguing in loops makes all of you look just as bad as the people you claim to hate or not be like.

On topic: OP has said it is difficult to remove the guy since he has known him for awhile, and honestly while his player/s reading the adventure path sucks, a notepad with some clever editing will fix all his problems. At this point he either needs to make the decision to curtail any problems before they come up (make GM rulings and have them be known before the game starts, write them down and do character audits to be double sure), or make the harder decision and remove this guy from his gaming group.


seems like lowering the cost of the item and making it for 1st and 2nd circle spells that you know would balance it out and make it a caster only useful object.


Trick I would use is start talking to the guy that you instead bought a different module, say module "X". Tell him you think your going to have it take a heavy undead/demon/draconic(whatever is opposite of your selected module) arc instead of the normal monster selection. You have everyone make characters, he will make his based upon module X with a specific focus to kill a certain type of monster. Then you pull out skulls and shackles after characters are made with monsters of the opposite persuaion and ruin his day completely.


If someone is failing twice on will saves then they deserve all the bad stuff that follows. It could easily be charm or sleep or any number of worse things. As is ill omen is not that impressive to use on players. I know I would just use acrobatics as part of my movement the next round, fail that roll and then smash the little witches face in with my now unhindered attack roll.


Only easy element changer that I know of is the admixture subschool, but that doesn't help our druid friend. If you are really worried about fire/flame just don't use it, druids have plenty of options with natures ally shapeshifting and a pile of utility/buff spells, as well as damage and debuffs that don't rely on fire.


unfortunately most of those are in Ultimate magic and ultimate combat. If you are stuck using core and APG it will certainly limit your options, I still cast my vote for power attack with outflank as your changeable teamwork feat.


I would say stay straight inquisitor. You are at a point where they come into their own and if you are worried about spell progression just use favored levels to pickup spells off the list you might be interested in. For combat judgement/teamwork feats make up for the lack of BAB and with your stats I would say take the power attack feat since with outflank and burst of speed you should have no problem getting into flanking position. With your AC being decent and the ability to self heal being a front-liner for you should not be a big deal either, and your damage with PA and bane is nothing to sneeze at either (extra 2d6+4 per swing).


Most of the doctors "powers" come from technology he uses. At best I would peg him as a 5th level skill monkey rogue that has master craftsman and craft wondrous item feats.


would make the archetype slightly better than its sad state if it did, but I am inclined to agree that even the bonus hp would be shared.


I am surprised Inquisitors are not getting more love. They can do everything a bard does but better, and without sacrificing combat prowess or utility to do so. Not to mention their spell selection is pretty amazing. You can make a inquisitor that can do every roll, nearly all at once:
Face: 6+int skills and huge skill list
Sneaky trap guy: take disable device via traits and your set.
Melee: Start off as a half-orc for falchion proficency and your damage will grow exponentially as you level.
Healer: take the healing domain or pump wis for bonus spells per day
Blaster: arguably their weakest roll, inquisitors still have some nice blast/utility spells like judgement light and blistering invective, but really shine as a buffer/utility spellcaster instead.


1. yes it adds +2 hit/dmg
2. This part should be obvious to the character unless the GM wants to state that you have never seen creatures of type X, and in that case it would be a knowledge roll (Arcane, Nature, Planes, Dungeoneering) using the inquisitor ability monster lore. Also if it doesn't work you can swift action change what your bane works against so keep swingin.


I agree with the change to monsters/custom monsters it will take players off their game. Also I love mind control. Stuff like charm, confusion and dominate really puts players on edge because all of their strengths become yours and you have players biting their nails wondering if they are gonna cause their party to wipe.


you are taking and adding base damage to all of your crits and on spirited charge plus the initial base damage, so you have base damage in there 3 times when it is only in the formula once.


depends on the size of the city. You could have things like the crumbing clock tower that hosts a nest of flying monsters or the farmstead that has grown over with yellow musk creeper that has turned all the farm animals into plant zombies.


Depends on the trap honestly. some traps use a to hit roll against players while others do use a reflex save.


If you need to have a ruling I would say treat them as a light weapon and use normal weapon draw rules.


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wraithstrike wrote:
The ARG does not make them into a PC race. It just gives you options to use with them. The only PC races are still the ones in the core book. Anything other race is by GM approval only aka houserule.

Incorrect.

From "Introduction"
"But the Advanced Race Guide is more than that. While
the Pathfinder RPG has always featured a variety of races
for players to roleplay, this book alone offers 36 different
playable races
, not counting subraces, and this is merely a
starting point".

From "Navigating this book":
"Each section details a number of alternate racial traits, favored
class rewards, archetypes, feats, equipment, magic
items, and spells designed specifically for those players
interested in creating such characters
".
Bolded mine.

The intent is obviously to let players play these races, and the ARG gives you the tools to do it.


Icyshadow wrote:
There was a druid variant of some kind in one of the old Rise of the Runelords AP books, but I forgot which one it was, and the name of the druid variant. It also might be 3.5e only, sadly.

Just found it. It is called Ashvawg Tamer and yea it allows you to mess with magical beasts, but from a select list. Close but not quite what I was looking for. Thanks though


please read my post before replying.


As the title says, been looking for a class that can control magical beasts beyond just their mount/"Animal Companion". Only thing I have found so far is wild empathy can be used to diplomacy MBs of 1 or 2 int, but aside from spells I have not had much luck. Anyone know of a class/archetype/ability?


PKE Meter.

Otherwise if unsure fire works.


Yea each size category increase nets you the additional bonuses beyond what is listed so yea, +24 str for gargantuan from medium.

Also agree with skylancer, Dragons in their home turf or with any sort of prep time (even 1-3 rounds) are scary as hell. Especially big ones with buff/damage spells, flyby attack, and of course a wicked breath weapon. As a GM you will need to make sure that you think ahead for a dragon encounter and not flip to the page they are on only when the party enters their room/lair. I would drop 2 to 4 CR from the encounters exp/treasure (bigger they are and more spells they have the higher the drop in CR) if you did not pre-plan it.


going from medium to gargantuan is already a huge bonus to damage.
Size Table
The creature will have a STR score 24 points higher than before, which is +12 to hit and damage per swing.


Unless there is something I missed I do not think that would work.

"When your nonlethal damage equals your current hit points, you're staggered, and when it exceeds your current hit points, you fall unconscious".
/Bolded mine.

The way I read this is if you were at negatives nonlethal damage equal to your current negative HP remaining (so if i was at -20 with a total capacity of -40, 20 points would do it) would knock you unconscious.
So yea you wouldn't die but your combat effectiveness in negatives would be minimal.


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For thematics Blistering invective is just fun. You intimidate people to set them on fire! Battlemind Link is always really nice if you do appropriate setup with a party member.


The only problem I see is not with the feat, but with the approaches people use to get the feat. Taking dips of monk or unarmed fighter just for this feat line means it is worth too much for its level, and MoMS and Unarmed fighter should have the free style feats pushed slightly higher into the build so that dips become multiclassing and all the powergamers stop abusing it.
Monks that use this feat line, carry on. You already have enough problems without people trying to steal your only good points.


If you really do want more spells some races have inquisitor favored levels giving them just that(Human for example). It is definitely not underpowered as the inquisitor spell list is amazing. They get a fair amount of unique spells and buffs that will allow you to not dumpstat wis and keep the character as a strong martial option.

@MisterSlanky I do agree with the general comparison but Inquisitor got the long end of this stick as their skill AND combat prowess are both very good without much sacrifice like bards have to do.


Here ya go:

Trollblood:

Name: War Masta' Trollblood
Build: Barbarian 1 Fighter 15 Vivisectionist/Beastmorph Alchemist 4
Race: Orc (Dayrunner)
Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
Theme: Unkillable HP machine
Ability Scores: 20 point buy
STR: 18
DEX: 10
CON: 18 (4 points to CON 22)
INT: 8
WIS: 10
CHA: 5 (1 point to CHA 6)

Darkvision 60ft.
Ferocity
Skill points = 3/lvl (Barb/Alchy) or 1/lvl (FTR)

Favored bonus: +2 Effective CON for the purposes of negative HP and dying (FTR)

Traits:
Strong Will (+1 to will saves)
Berserker of the Society (+3 rage rounds/day)

1:Barbarian: Rage, Fast movement, Power attack
2:Fighter: Toughness
3:Fighter: Ferocious Action, Wep. Focus (Falchion), Bravery 1
4:Fighter: Armor Training 1
5:Fighter: Raging Vitality, Ferocious Tenacity
6:Alchemist: Alchemy, Sneak attack +1d6, Brew Potion, Mutagen, Throw anything
7:Alchemist: Discovery(Healing hands),Poison resistance +2,Poison use, Iron Will
8:Alchemist: Sneak attack 2d6, Beastmorph Mutagen (Scent?)
9:Alchemist: Discovery (Lingering Spirit), Improved critical
10:Fighter: Weapon Training 1(Blades, Heavy)
11:Fighter: Weapon specialization (Falchion), Resilient Brute, Bravery 2
12:Fighter: Armor training 2
13:Fighter: Greater weapon spec.(Falchion),Greater Wep. focus (Falchion)
14:Fighter: Weapon training 2(Blades, Heavy/Natural)
15:Fighter: Raging Brutality, Improved Iron Will, Bravery 3
16:Fighter: Armor Training 3
17:Fighter: Critical Focus, Grudge fighter
18:Fighter:Weapon Training 3(Blades, Heavy/Natural/Thrown)
19:Fighter: Sickening Critical, Stunning Assault, Bravery 4
20:Fighter: Armor Training 4

With a 18 base CON, Belt of perfection +6, Rage +4, Raging Vitality +2, Mutagen +4, Levels +4, Dying "CON" favored bonus +30, Dying "CON" bonus from lingering spirit +10 = 38 actual CON while raging and juiced (free action+standard action) at level 20 would give this fellow an average of 417.5 hp at 20th level, with the ability to go to -78 before dying. this gives him an effective HP of 494.5 which puts him fairly close to the Tarrasque in terms of staying power, with saves of +27/+16/+13(+17vs. fear, +1 re-roll) after items.
Would be using a +4 int/wis headband to be able to use 2nd level extracts and bolster the will save

This build ekes out another ~30 hp over a straight barb build with a fighter dip like the one STR fighter linked, and could be modified for more survivability. Ones I toyed with were Going Unbreakable fighter for the Heroic feat line(saves), or taking vestigial arm and going Thunderstriker for a 2-hander/buckler combo(AC).


STR Ranger wrote:

I already tried this with a Barb19/Unbreakable1.

Link

I wonder how high into the negatives we can get him? I tried to Maximise his DR to make him even harder to kill.

Or is the fighter/barb/alchemist just heaps better?

I almost went straight orc warrior with a dip in barb for the favored class +2 effective con, it scales really nicely. However, the alchemist has mutagens (+4 con -2 cha, lasts 40 minutes per go),the +10 effective con for dying discovery (10 for 4 levels vs the 8 for 4 levels of fighter), and you get lesser restoration to boot if you can muster a 12 int which means more combats with rage.

Most likely the extra levels from 10-20 would be straight fighter for the favored bonus, but that leaves open a lot of options for feat builds.
I will try to work on and post a build here later


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Owly wrote:
I cannot imagine an Inquisitor who is not the enforcer for some institution. In fact, I would not allow an Inquisitor PC unless they have some powerful council of priests and other Inquisitors to whom they answer.

I would say there can be an inquisitor without the need for someone in a mitre telling you what to do. If you are a fan of video games the belmont clan could be considered inquisitors. They semi-martial badarses with holy powers to supplement them, but without any of the codes that a paladin might have to hold them back.


Not that it is the same lore-wise, but you might check out some of the everquest mmo pre-generated names for froglock characters.


Also keep in mind greater planar beings of good seeing an evil wizard forcing their brethren into servitude might cause some heavy smiting of either the wizard or even the bound creature, as to prevent them from doing evil.


Was an NPC I introduced briefly but I never got to try the concept out before we switched to PF and houseruled no 3.5 books. Made a Gelun Druid/Walker in the wastes shapeshifter that was fun to play out, but sadly after the PCs were done assisting him they teleported away and left him to his own devices.


The setup I played with was of Orc Barb 1 Fighter 4 Alchemist (Beastmorph/Vivisectionist)4
I did 18 con +2 from level +4 from belt +4 from rage +4 from mutagen gave the character a con of 32 while raging and mutated. With toughness, lingering spirit, ferocious action, and 4 levels of favored class fighter(+8 effective con for dying).
this makes a character that has an average HP of 162 at 9th level while raging, with the ability to go down to -50 before dying, and is still capable of taking his full actions while dying without needing diehard and endurance.

I looked at the deathless feats and while they are cool for when you go into negatives the amount of feats they take would make the character worse off than if I just took stuff like weapon focus, power attack, weapon spec, and imp. crit, and grudge fighter(+1 hit/dmg when someone swings at you).

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