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OK, let's say you switch out 'roll-player' for 'optimizer', which is usually less annoying to the people you're labelling.
Even so, by framing the conversation you seem to be saying, "The Stormwind Fallacy is not a fallacy. Everyone is either an optimizer or a role-player. If you've made an optimized character, you're likely to be bad at role-playing. We are having a discussion built around this assumption."
The rules are actually pretty unclear what happens if you fail a Fly check (for a situation that needs a Fly check, such as a sharp climb or hovering).
It might be possible with the Throat Slicer feat. (Coup de grace a pinned opponent as a standard action.)
Otherwise, against an opponent who's already at negative hit points, you could ready an action to attack them, which would be deadly in the majority of cases.
If you're a GM, try doing that next time one of the PCs falls unconscious. "Drop all your weapons and surrender, or the elf gets it."
I think it's very optimistic to believe that the players will be split their wealth between magic items and airship maintenance in the desired proportion. "We'll skimp on airship weapons to buy nice shiny things. If we get attacked, the sorcerer will destroy the enemy airship with fireballs."
Either use BP for airship building, or use one of the many no-magic shop systems. (Inherent bonuses, etc.)
The spell says that you need a clear idea, and gives a guideline for how clear of an idea you have, explicitly citing scrying as a method and without any other language hinting otherwise. Saying that you can't teleport with the information given by a scry spell is not a change, but a 'clarification', comes off as disingenuous.
The spell states that you need to know the location of the target. Scrying is a possible way of learning someone's location, but does not guarantee it. That is what RAW has always said, but it was phrased unclearly in a way that apparently led many players, GMs, and adventure writers to assume that Scrying was a reliable method. Thankfully, it has now been clarified.
I think I could still make a case that RAW, scry & fry doesn't work with Greater Teleport. The spell works like teleport except where otherwise stated. The 'you must know the location' clause is not specifically excluded. You don't have to have seen the location, but if you haven't you need a reliable description. Scrying doesn't say it gives you a reliable description.
James Jacobs wrote:
More like 2 than 3 - a "scrying rarely works" interpretation.
James Jacobs wrote:
I reconcile it by saying that when you scry someone, you view a person, NOT a place, and thus simply ignore the bit of text that says you can scry to gain the viewed once condition. This makes for a better game play experience in my opinion.
Note also that he was making a house ruling for the sake of game balance rather than paying much attention to RAW.
This is pretty cut and dry... Teleport specifically references the familiarity acquired with scrying, how could it be more clear?
There are (were?) three possible interpretations:
(1) Scrying always gives you sufficient information to teleport there.
The reference to scrying in the Teleport description would appear to rule out interpretation 3, but is consistent with interpretation 2. The "must have a clear idea of location" bit appears to rule out interpretation 1, unless scrying is more powerful than the scrying spell says, or unless you decide to treat the "location" bit as flavor text.
That leaves option 2, which (by the sound of it) is what Ultimate Intrigue says.
"So, I've got it narrowed down to one extremely large continent, Tian Xia. He's either there, or he bought an imported rug."I haven't read Ultimate Intrigue, but isn't the location requirement a bit more stringent than that?
Taku Ooka Nin wrote:
This isn't bad as narrative, but it doesn't work too well when you think of it as a game. "I have decided that you are going to die in this battle. I have decided that you are all going to magically come back to life."
It - potentially - undermines any actual struggle for survival in the game. Instead of learning to run away when facing a battle they can't win, they learn the lesson that it doesn't matter what they do, because TPKs are no big deal and the GM has already decided the outcome. (You can lessen this problem by foreshadowing their resurrection in some way - some kind of special item or pact? - or simply by telling them afterwards, "This won't happen again.")
And suppose, for example, one of the PCs dies on the way to this fatal encounter due to a bad crit and the party decides to retreat and recruit a replacement? Do you tell them not to? Do you bring both characters back to life?
Obstacles to overcome for the party to be able to successfully run away:
They must identify that the enemy is a threat they cannot defeat by normal means.
They must identify that the enemy is not one that can be defeated by some clever tactic that the GM is expecting them to think of. "All you had to do was destroy the glowing crystal on the altar!"
They must identify this before any of them are killed.
They must identify this before they get in a position where they cannot escape; no unconscious PCs who can't be carried, or characters who will die from an AoO if they move, and so on.
They must be able to move faster than the pursuing enemy. Since many PCs have 20-foot movement, there are very few enemies like that. Even a fast PC is going to have trouble outrunning a determined dragon or ghost. This can be mitigated with magic or by sacrificing someone (usually an animal companion) or through some contrived bit of scenery that allows them to destroy a convenient rickety bridge and flee.
The player whose initiative it is must make the decision that he is going to be the first one to make a break for it, which always looks cowardly.
They must be willing to swallow their pride. It's not easy to go on a quest to defeat the dark lord and then when you meet him, just give up and go home because you were never capable of achieving your goal in the first place. It helps if they had some other goal they can achieve by escaping.
Using the definition of optimizer = person who tries to obtain mechanical power without any regard to the storyline, their character concept, role-playing, etc.
The word for that is power-gamer. An optimizer is someone who comes up with a concept (like a dual-rapier-wielder) and then tries to do it well.
Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
I'd agree that sorcerers tend to benefit more from metamagic feats. Those new high level spell slots where you've only got one spell known? Now they can be used for a variety of powerful metamagic spells.
On the other hand, metamagic rods are better for wizards. Wizards get the benefit of spontaneous use, and unlike a sorcerer, they can draw the rod as a move action in the same round.
The "Caw! Caw-caw! Caw" clue is possibly too indirect, depending on how heavily it's stressed. (I mean, clever players will probably think, "this parrot must be significant or the GM wouldn't mention it", but they might then think, "it's probably an evil druid, let's kill it!" and then what are you going to do?)
Also, parrots don't just go "caw". Parrots imitate the sounds they here. If there was a "Bong!" sound every time a stone was pressed, the parrot could plausibly say, "Bong! Bong-bong! Bong!"
I don't know what the DC is to detect something when you walk into it, but assuming he failed such a check:- He doesn't know he failed a perception check, but he does know that he tried to walk somewhere and failed. I'm having a hard time of thinking of plausible explanations for what could have stopped him beyond 'something invisible'.
"Things are worth what you could sell them for" is a better guideline than "things are worth what you pay for them". If I pay too much for something, it doesn't mean I now own something valuable. If I fool you into thinking your diamond is of low quality and buy it for a fraction of what a reputable jeweller would have given you, that doesn't mean it's less valuable.
I'm a spy on a stealth mission. I've just shut down all the power in the complex. You're walking down a five-foot corridor in pitch darkness. I have night-vision goggles on so I can see you coming. I press myself against the wall in the hope you'll pass by without noticing me. I'm one foot thick. You're two feet wide. That gives us two feet of clearance. If you walk directly down the middle, that leaves a six inch gap between us.
But it seems to me that whether you slam into me, brush against me, or walk past me without noticing is mostly a matter of luck. Any rule that is aiming for true realism would have to take in so many factors as to be almost unplayable.
Bob Bob Bob wrote:
You can try, but if they're the kind of person who derives their enjoyment from playing instead of roleplaying (and both are equally valid) then you probably can't pull them in with story.
'Playing' is a bit vague, which makes me want to break things down in more detail.Things a player might enjoy:
Completing quest objectives
Role-playing and developing a personality (via speaking in character, etc.)
Making tactical decisions
Interacting with NPCs
Someone who mainly enjoys building characters, protecting allies, exploring environments and killing monsters is going to be less concerned about whether their character survives a given battle.
People thought Diplomacy was mind control?
You can use this skill to persuade others to agree with your arguments
Necromancer: "Paladin, help me murder these children, so I can turn them into undead minions."Paladin: "No."
(Necromancer makes a high diplomacy roll.)
Paladin: "Your arguments have convinced me. I guess I have no choice."
What, it doesn't work like that in your games?
"You must make an appropriate Craft check to fabricate articles requiring a high degree of craftsmanship."
Murdock Mudeater wrote:
I think the intention is that the 5k is the amount you paid for it, not some system of current market value.
OOTS jokes aside, I'm pretty sure the intention is that it's a diamond you could normally sell for 5K. If you get it for 10% off, it still works. If you stole it, it still works. If you bought a tiny grain of diamond dust for 5000gp, it doesn't work.
In any realistic economy (not that this is one), the ability of an item to raise the dead impacts its value. If diamonds worth $500 in our world are what it takes to bring someone back to life, then it makes sense that people would be willing to pay 5000gp each, even if they doesn't look like much.
I was thinking along this same line. Problem is it was a 15 point buy to begin with and I'm not only penalizing the offender but I'm also penalizing the party who now has a 12 point buy mid level party member.
You say they're powering themselves up by doing this, by making a character built to handle the specific challenge they're facing. That suggests you can afford to reduce them in power just enough to cancel out this advantage without harming the group.
It's not too bad. It doesn't do much damage. Unlike, say, a Cyclops, it's unlikely to actually kill a party member - it can only wear you down slowly, unless you put a strength-dumping character on the front line. And the average level 5 party probably has members who can handle it - a paladin, a big strong barbarian who can overpower its DR, a bard who can help you overcome the high AC with buffs, a cleric who can hit it with positive energy, a wizard who can blind it or wear it down with magic missile spells, someone who can trip it...
Part of the reason I have trouble understanding the potential of my spells is, as was the original topic, that my team is so damn powerful that I literally don't need to do anything.
I know the feeling. One of the few advantages mundane characters have over casters is that in a routine battle they can have just as much fun attacking enemies without having to hold back their limited powers in case they might be needed later. An extra Fighter is just as superfluous as an extra Wizard, but the Fighter probably won't notice because he's busy chopping up monsters.
Still, by level 5 you have quite a few spells per day. If you don't think your party needs the support of a second or third level spell, you can usually afford to throw out a Grease.
Taku Ooka Nin wrote:
I have already told these guys how utterly unrealistic it is for them to expect a GM to effectively rewrite the entire AP to slip in their backstories (one of which consistently demands I make checks for people in his backstory to show up, which tells me that he evidently has a god angry at him or some other absurdity that no level 1 adventurer would possibly survive). One of the entire reasons I have time to GM this game is because the game's owner is creating all of the content with my just running it.
It may not be that hard to make existing content fit in with backstories. Obviously, if you have limited time, it's going to be difficult. But you can often just change a few of the names and details in the adventure. There are lots of human NPCs in Kingmaker - could you just change the names of the most similar characters who are in the adventure to the names of the people from the backstories? The guy who is trying to sabotage their town could be doing it for reasons of personal vengeance rather than what it says in the book. Maybe one of their old enemies has become a werewolf, or is telling the local rival baron lies about how you plan to conquer his territory.
And if a god is angry at them? Well, an angry god probably isn't just going to drop a mountain on your head. That might antagonise the other gods. So instead, the angry god can be the cause of any implausible bad thing that happens to the party. So if you want your party to be ambushed in order to make a combat more interesting, but the party is scouting too well to make that happen, then the angry god appears to the scouts in a vision, and distracts them enough to let the monster sneak up on them. Similarly, an angry god could explain sudden hostile weather conditions, or enemies who know more about you than you know about them, or could be the cause of the AP boss villain picking on you.
I keep preparing Grease, but I have no idea when and where to USE it.
When facing opponents who you think have poor Reflex saves - most enemies with class levels (not monks and rogues, but you get the idea), giants, that kind of thing. Try to make a couple of them fall down if they're standing next to each other. Ideally when they're already next to one of your allies - that way if they stand up they provoke AoO. Also good for making it hard for an opponent to retreat. Also good for protecting your ally from being grappled.
What makes death scary depends on the player. Maybe they find the idea of being chopped up by an axe-wielding monster inherently scary, even if they expect to be raised from the dead after. Maybe they think the possibility of losing their character is scary, even if they could get back a new character of equivalent power. Maybe they're scared of the effect on WBL for paying 5000gp for Raise Dead. Maybe they're only scared of a TPK which would kill not just the characters but the whole story. Or maybe they don't take the game seriously at all and nothing in the game would be scary to them.
If you try a solution like, "no material costs for resurrection, but 5% chance of incurable death the first time you get raised, 10% the next time, 15% the next time, and so on", you avoid the need to rewrite the story just because someone died, and you keep the fear of death (for people who find that sort of thing scary, which isn't going to be everyone), and you strongly discourage players being careless with the lives of their characters, and you avoid inconveniencing anyone... up to the point where someone rolls badly and their character is permadead. Maybe that would work?
In a wide open room, you could realistically allow someone past you easily - although that seems to violate normal turn-based movement (unless you ready an action to move out the way of anyone approaching). In a 5 foot corridor? Maybe - but a big barbarian with a great axe would at least brush against you unless you got lucky. In a movie theatre aisle (more like a 2.5 foot corridor?), no chance, unless the two of you co-operate.
Thems the rules.
I don't think the rules clearly define what constitutes an enemy or ally. If two party members hate each other and are secretly planning on murdering each other, but are posing as allies for now, they can presumably still treat one another as allies for the game purposes. If I wanted to block an ally from passing through my square (let's say I believe that he'll get killed if he rushes ahead, but can't persuade him of that at the moment) I should probably be able to do that.
In my interpretation, an enemy or ally is anyone you choose to treat as an enemy or ally, and this can change at any time.
Have you read the Hungry Storm thread? There was discussion of sleds, as well as horses versus dogs versus musk ox.
My ruling in my games:
You can allow someone to pass through your square but they get an extra check to realise you're there - a simple stealth versus perception check with no invisibility bonus. If they end their movement in your square, they notice you automatically and are bumped from your square
I base this on:
Are the fights taking a long time because of multiple waves of minions? Because of individual boss enemies who are hard to hurt? Awkward terrain slowing things down?
Or do the battles only last a few rounds, but still take hours to resolve? If so, is it particular players who are taking a long time, or the GM?