I read the initial post and skimmed the responses, and responses to responses.
My Age of Worms campaign started with my regular group, which runs 8 players meeting every other Friday here in the Twin Cities in Minnesota US. I had to stop the campaign due to a series of life events, mostly the birth of my two boys.
As the adventure was written, Eligos was assassinated later, after the Champions Belt. Later, in the Spire of Long Shadowes he is raised/resurrected. His death and rebirth has no real impact on the PCs. Now it is a meaningful event. As the adventure states, The PCs are framed, as the doppleganger crew desires. From Zyrzog's view, a sage who has been snooping into things best left alone is eliminated/discouraged.
Uhhh Paladin must be LG and Bards cannot be Lawful, so this combination is illegal by game rules.
That aside, if the player is so concerned tell them that they can take whatever is found as their treasure split and replace it in the tomb afterwards.
With 20/20 hind sight you can see that most of your party are immoral tomb raiders and the like. Your choices now: Discourage 'the odd man out', offer to make him/her into a fighter/bard to eliminate the problem, or play out the rest of the party tricking or lying to the paladin to get what they want. In extremis a party may 'remove' the obstacle player, but this can lead to real world bad blood. It will depend on the group.
Here's a further post from James Jacobs in the same thread:
"Paladins aren't immune to Kyuss worms. Disease in D&D is a specific game mechanic; you suffer ability damage once per day after an incubation period until the disease is removed or you make your 2 Fortitude saves in a row to recover. Kyuss worms, while they are destroyed by remove disease function in a completely different manner than an actual disease.
Now if you want to say paladins are immune to Kyuss worms in your campaign, that's cool. But keep in mind that once you start to blur things like this, there will be ramifications. If you make a paladin immune to Kyuss worms, then why aren't they also immune to green slime, brown and yellow mold, chaos beast bites, and slaadi egg implantation?"
Search the forum boards under 'Disease Immunity' and you'll get an old thread from 2005. From which I will excerpt the following from 'Gold Katana' Nov. 2005:
"Although the worms are destroyed when in a victim's body by casting Remove Disease and Remove Curse, they are neither a disease nor a curse. Per Dungeon 126, they are "a Fine vermin," per Dragon 336 "they are a strange symbiotic form of vermin that subsists upon the decaying flesh of the spawn." Also, per Dragon 336, "Once the worm reaches the brain, ... it begins to consume..." I propose Remove Disease and Curse are applicable per gaming rules because there is no "Remove Vermin" spell. A paladin would not be immune to the worms."
By the same rules the Periapt of Health should not work.
At the end of the day you are the final authority of your game. Since there are many times characters encounter the worms in later adventures, this ruling will effect those games also.
I'd like to see an AP Pathfinder version of the 'Village of Hommlet' and 'the Temple of Elemental Evil module'. The village fed into the quests in the computer game, and fed adventurers back into the dungeon and vice versa.
84. Jolly Johnny Meadbriar S 12, D 10, C 11, I 13, W 12, Ch 14, 4th level Expert, HP 18, Trader/Merchant. Jolly Johnny has a merchant shop where he 'can sell water to a drowning man'. Out back he has a stables, which he uses for horse trading, and rents to travellers when the inns are full. He is red nosed due to long years of drink, which he happily gives folk a taste if it will help a sale. He is married and his 3 daughters, the oldest is married off to a soldier and has moved away. He is keen to keep the local boys from the younger two daughters, unless he 'approves' of them.
The following is based on 27 years of playing role playing games. I have seen a lot of bad behavior, and I think you have four choices:
1)Live with a bad player that ruins your fun. Life's too short to put up with this jerk.
2)Have a heart-to-heart conversation, then let him ruin your fun. :(
3)Don't invite him and let him know why. You hope to repair this lost soul to a state of heavenly grace and transcent RP. Double :(
4)Don't invite him and make up a reason why: "The module is made for 5 characters maximum, sorry K." Everyone wins. You lose the jerk, and he maintains the delusion that he is a worthwhile individual.
As you can see I favor choice 4. Little white lies are important to maintain society, and a sense of a moral and stable world when reality proves otherwise. Feel free to disregard.
William Ronald wrote:
I just started reading and getting Kingmaker ready for my players. My particular group take a lot of pleasure in PC group setup and meeting everyone. From what I have read the first encounter the adventure kind of throws the PC's into the first encouter as a group. How did others handle this? Any suggestions of how others introduced the PC's to each other for this campaign?
My preferred method is to reward characters with a written background with a potion or scroll at 1st level. I don't want everyone to know everything about each other, I just ask each PC to write two other PCs into their backgrounds.
6,000 gps x 8 characters = 48,000 gps dropped between cash, loot and magic items sold. I don't recall our DM giving much of a reward, as our cleric mis-cast the dispel evil scroll, and we never really 'solved' the problem with Foxglove Manor. A 5th level cleric casting a scroll penned by a 9th level caster has a 5% chance per level difference of miscasting. He did.
Our group or DM must be doing something wrong.
James Jacobs wrote:
Just because someone is good doesn't mean they are friendly. Likewise evil isn't always antogistic. Every character should have goals which drive them. Their 'alignment' illustrates how they would accomplish those goals.Then again Orcs are for head bashing, not analyzing.
While I love Paizo and their invention of the Adventure Path, I've noticed a trend in almost all the Adventure Paths (even those from Dragon Magazine) published so far. From Cauldron to the Council of Thieves it seems like you have to do something evil to win. Or more likely make a deal with an evil entity to gain an advantage. This is seriously getting kind of repetitive.
I think there is a definite story arc to the adventure path. That story arc is a bit predictable. The 'enemy of my enemy is my friend' trope.Then again this is a game where the preponderance of XP comes from defeating or killing your enemy, so let's not get too righteous.
I am going to go 'old school' for a moment and say an old adventure like 'Curse of the Azure Bonds' where the PCs have a cursed tattoo/geas which compels them is a good mechanic to propel the adventure forward. Though something like that would seem too much like a 'railroad' to some players.
I think the basic conundrum is that you have a game where almost anything is possible, yet you need the PCs to get from point A to point B in the plot in an enjoyable fashion.
A personal favorite trope of mine is 'the intractable good'. Wherein a force of good (local government, righteous temple, etc. )is pigheaded or refuses to listen to reason. This causes conflict as the PCs know that force of evil X is planning something but the powers that be refuse to listen.
Example: A remote temple of good is secretly tasked to guard an evil relic. Even talking of said relic gets the clerics and paladins upset. The relic may have been stolen, as evidenced by a growing plague of evil in the region (undead, signs of blight, etc.). PCs have to sneak or otherwise make their way into said temple to determine the truth. Adventure follows.
The plan is to have one of our friends do some fine detail air brush ing before the sealant. More yet to come. Welcome to 'Nerdvanna' : )
A friend of mine has a gaming palace/home in Golden Valley MN. I thought I'd share the following picture. He has a stulpter turning a tree stump into a 9 foot tall statue of a silver dragon in his front yard.
Ogrork the Mighty wrote:
I believe the Magic Item Compendium tried to fill in areas where magic was rare. This means they tried to produce more low cost magic items. So overall, in my opinion, the items tend to pack more power for the price. You could easily make a case for doubling or tripling the price. Were the City of Greyhawk to be overrun by undead, 5 times the cost would not be out of order.
That being said the first level crystal is extremely useful in this campaign, since it can be added to enhance a pre-existing magical weapon. So a +1 Flaming Long Sword with the least true death crystal would do 1d8 weapon damage + 1d6 Fire + 1d6 Crystal damage (= untyped positive energy perhaps...)+ Strength. That's a lot of damage.
Personally as a DM in an AoW campaign I've restricted Tome of Magic Spells, and access to magic items is limited. It seems like there is definite 'power creep' issues. The later books for 3rd edition give more powerful feats, items, and spells.
My 2 Cents
I do not want to slaughter the PCs, but I don't want to just pretend the doppelgangers are stupid. Any ideas on what they might have planned in store for a return assault by the PCs?
Let's see the dopplegangers have infiltrated a large metro area and have many of their kind as agents. Have one of the dopplegangers follow the PCs, while other dopplegangers rush out to buy disposable magic items of their own.Add a few potions of invisibility, some poison for their weapons and a bead of force for fun.
My 2 cents.
Um Half Orcs have 12s in all stats and gnomes and halfling have 8s in all stats. I'll choose half orc! : )
Hmmm. For some reason, it is taking the adjustments (for all races) and using it throughout all the ability scores (that is, it isn't differentiating between the different bonuses/penalties for the different ability scores). Only the strength modifier(s) is being used for every ability score.
We're using Weapons of Legacy in my AoW campaign. I've tweaked the concept a bit, and instead of penalties to abilities, hit points, to hit & damage, etc. I have an xp cost associated with each level. The overall xp cost is as if the character crafted it, and by 20th level they cost in xp as much as a 250,000 gp item.
If you want to use this event to herald the end of 3rd edition and the start of 4th edition you could have her agents ready to bring out the Dragonborn race from some neither region.
Which do you think would work better for a weekly gaming group, and if you have played through either, which would you recommend?
What are some of the selling points for this AP opposed to STAP?
I'm a fan of AoW because it is set in the 'middle kingdom' area around Greyhawk and is close geographically to the old TEE (Temple of Elemental Evil) campaign from the bygone days.I think Shackled City and Savage Tide have closer links, since they are set near each other in Greyhawk.
The one knock on AoW is the lack of outdoor play, so druids and rangers will see limited play IMHO.
Mad Zagyg wrote:
But that player got to thinking, and talking, with the party fighter. And They decided that the DC is stacked too heavily against success for bull rush or overrun attempts. Their specific argument was that a lvl 1, str 16 human fighter (CMB +4) has to roll a 12 to overrun a housecat-sized imp (bab+3, -2 size, +0 str, CMB +1), and a 17 to knock said tiny outsider on his tuckus. And if it's that hard to overrun a tiny creature, how much harder will it be as levels go up?
They want the movement-based combat actions (bull rush and overrun) to remove BAB from the equation. So it's just size and strength.
I was with you until you said Imp rather than just a house cat. Knocking a figure prone is a huge advantage, since with more figures around they all get bonus's to hit. I would be in favor of changing the size difference from -2 to -2, but don't take out BAB since an Imp is a tough little opponent versus a very green 1st level fighter.
My 2 cents.
A devoted cult under a charismatic leader could head in this direction, but I think it's a 'ends justify the means' approach which no true nature religion would tolerate. Most nature religions tend to humans who revere the old ways. When they die so does the religion.How about a follower of Istus, 'the Lady of Fate'. A high priest or powerful worshipper could be convinced the Age of Worms is our destiny, and work to make it happen in their life time.
I see Kyuss as a follower of Nerull in the Flan pantheon before apotheosis. The head of that religion is Pelor, and the main nature diety is Obad Hai 'the Shalm'. Vecna, a competitor with Kyuss, is nominally in this pantheon as well.
Another option would be to have the Ebon Triad turn into a bunch of crazed fanatics (more so than now) who believe Kyuss is really the Over God they prophesized.
Suggestions and other ideas will be greatly appreciated.
My concept of what happens if the PCs fail to stop Kyuss is the following. He emerges from his imprisonment and would usher in an Age of Worms (thus the name). I think swarms of Kyuss Worms which can infect animals would be pretty bad. The infection spreads until all life on Oerth is harmed.The strongest bastions against the unholy plague would be underground or in secluded areas, undersea or in a different plane altogether would be preferable for higher level folks.
From these areas a plan is hatched to either 1)trap Kyuss in the God Trap beneath Castle Zagyg. With the aid of Iggwilv and Mordenkainen a hearty band of heroes lures and traps Kyuss, ending his threat...for now. or 2)Slay Kyuss' Aspect on the material plane. He has achieved true godhood, so this will only resore the balance, and send him to grovel at the feet of Nerull.
Personally I wouldn't let a player abuse his ability to use a mount this way. Rather than retroactively try to figure out some response to why you as the DM slipped up, I would contact the player privately. Tell him/her that you mis-ruled when you allowed this action during play, and afterwards you realized this is a rules violation. Then tell him/her that they are carrying the egg in their arms until they reach Diamond Lake.Then again at the start of play in front of the entire group you should give your explanation/apology for having to over rule yourself.
Which ever way you handle this remember that we all make mistakes. Give yourself a way to save face yet rule the right way. If you go with 'Olmac's suggestion' let the players know after the egg hatches and hell breaks loose, that you had erred and you cannot use the mount as a pack horse. It will save you next time they try to 'tie up Filge, throw him over the Paladin's saddles and send him to the 7 Heavens or else.'
I don't think I would allow a Paladin to turn his mount into a walking, fighting bag of holding that way. Hmmm here's a thought. The egg may seem a tiny tiny bit EVIL to Mr. Paladin.
Working on them as I can.
Here is one I rather like, since it dove tails with my old Temple of Elemental Evil campaign, and one of our party members is a part of the organization. His character is an Elemental Archon, slightly modified from the FR campaign setting.
One time Additions:
Affiliation Score Title: Benefits and Duties
Executive Powers: Pariah, Raid, Shadow War
Hi there. I work most Saturdays so was unable to get a free copy during my local gaming stores giveaway of this module.
My campaign is running D1 with Bugbears bad guys and Goblin slaves rather than the kobolds since my group is higher level. Everything else is amped up a bit to 6th/7th level. This is a fantastic module and I just had to use it, since I love the Dwarven Ruins and new monsters from D1!
If something happens in-game, to change a PC against his will, I might be willing to run with it, for a 'tragic hero' theme. But if players are just cherry-picking powers, then they can go swivel. What's he going to do? Stand in the graveyard with his neck exposed every night? Who's to say (if a vampire does come) they won't just kill him and eat him?
It's up to DMs to draw a line in the cheese, and say "No further!"
Hear, hear. An in play quest to get a wish and a hunt for a vampire might be the focus of the campaign for some time. Chances are the rest of the players won't like one PC shifting the narrative for the entire group.I normally try not to tell my characters they can't do something, since a direct line to the gods is beyond their abilities in most cases. I just ask them "How are you going to become the only non-evil vampire?"
It's much easier to give the PCs the mission statement of the Campaign arc. "The focus of this campaign arc depends on a group of PEOPLE from Diamond Lake who rise to a mighty epic level challenge." Stress the word PEOPLE, not Minotaurs, Bugbear Samurai or Were-tiger monks.
Why would a were-tiger monk care about the fate of Diamond Lake? Good catnip there?
Allen Stewart wrote:
Doug Maynard wrote:
The Eyes of Celene
Criterion: Note, since multiple Knowledge skills are involved, a character gains an affiliation bonus equal for each separate skill, and takes the better bonus for said skill (+1 or +2). Must be an elf or half elf.
Level +½ PC’s level
Rank Title: Benefits and Duties
The Greyhawk Wizards Guild (Business)
Rank Title: Benefits and Duties
Executive Powers: Craft, Gift, Research
For those of you who play about as often as my group, could you tell me when you started and how far you have progressed through the AP?
We have been playing every other Friday for a total of 21 sessions. We started in June of 2006. Our 9 person group is larger than most so I've had to add content to up the xp. We are one session away from completing Blackwall Keep. I added 'the Fiend's Embrace' from Dungeon magazine after 'the Whispering Cairn' and before '3 Faces of Evil'. I also added a few other sub-plots, added some content found on the boards to beef up the 'mine shack'You can track our progress on our blog: http://ageofwormsminnesota.blogspot.com/
Our group is all 6th level and we should have 1 or two at 7th by next session. I have another filler adventure before 'the Hall of Harsh Reflections'.
I'm working up the affiliations of PCs in my campaign. First off is the Greysmere Covenant.
The Greysmere Covenant
Type: Business (racial-dwarf)
Rank Title: Benefits and Duties
PC Name: Arga (Half Orc Barabarian 1)
PC Name: Vance (Oeridian Human Fighter 2)
PC Name: Mendax (Rhennee Human Bard 3)
PC Name: Mouse (Halfling Rogue 4)
PC Name: Stigand (Sueloise Human Fighter 1/Dragon Shaman 4)
There was a previous thread concerning group alliations from the PHII. Recently I made up a list of groups which the PCs with which my campaign interact.
Elves of Celene (Racial, Elf)
The Seekers (Cabal)
I the dampaign I DM Mayor Neff has been thrown in jail and the new Mayor will be a young man named Edwin Tilgast, Zelch Tilgast's good for nothing son. Eventually he will go by his Mother's maiden named Tolstoff.